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JordansBulls
02-17-2011, 02:56 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/two/110217




GROUP B: "Only If They Asked To Leave"

8. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Dwyane Wade
6. Kobe Bryant

Our first three untradable guys. I covered the extended primes of Kobe and Nowitzki in a column three weeks ago, which generated a ton of e-mails like this one from Dave in Atlanta:

"Ten years from now, what are the chances we look back on your 'Defying the Odds' column the same way we look back at some of the McGwire/Sosa/Clemens columns from the late-'90s? When we pull back the curtain to find Rashard Lewis and O.J. Mayo traveling on the PED Bus, isn't it very possible that we're all being extremely na´ve when it comes to NBA players and their advancements in the career longevity department?"

The only thing I'd disagree with is the phrase "extremely na´ve." Sports fans in 2011 are prepared for the worst at all times; that's just how we're wired now. I didn't mention PEDs in that piece because the extended primes of Nash/Kobe/Pierce/Nowitzki/Bryant were reasonable; they maintained their previous level of success for legitimate reasons, without a Bondsian jump in numbers that would have raised a red flag. The NBA also tests for this stuff; until 2005, baseball didn't test for anything even as some of its best players were growing second foreheads.

My only concern: why fans don't make a bigger stink when there has been evidence that something might be up, like when Lewis played the best basketball of his career during the 2009 playoffs, tested positive for elevated testosterone that same spring (the results didn't come out until four months later) … and his career quickly went into the tank. If that had been a baseball pitcher who pitched lights-out during the 2009 playoffs, tested positive and fell off a cliff shortly after, what would we say? Why don't we care? Why do we think blood doping and HGH would infect cycling, baseball, football and track and field, but not a sport in which over-competitive guys run around and bang bodies for two and a half hours 80-100 times per year? OK, now I'm getting depressed …




GROUP A: "Completely And Utterly Untouchable"

5. Blake Griffin
And now, I am no longer depressed! I want to self-plagiarize a point I made on a podcast recently: However Blake's career plays out, we'll remember him as the first sports hero of the MultiTasker Generation. When Blake had a monster dunk, not only did you know about it right away, you practically saw it right away. Usually within 8-10 minutes. Like Jordan came to personify the mid-'80s -- crisply directed commercials, snazzy posters, trend-setting sneakers, highlights perfectly edited for the "SportsCenter" generation -- Blake personifies what's happening right now. You can watch every Clippers game on DirecTV or your laptop if you want. You can tweet during games with your buddies waiting for something to happen. If you want to skip the game and wait to be alerted that something magical happened, followed by your Twitter account exploding and the inevitable YouTube link getting forwarded around, you can do that, too. Either way, it's 2011 and you can consume Blake Griffin any way you want.


4. Derrick Rose
I still have him as the MVP. If you disagree, go look at the standings, try to find me 10 games in which Carlos Boozer and Joakim Noah played together, then watch Keith Bogans play for 10 minutes. Derrick Rose did more for that team through the first 50 games than anyone else did for their team; doesn't make him the best player, just the most valuable. At least so far. Of course, we can't sleep on this scenario, courtesy of Tim in Troy:

"I think we could have a Hakeem Olajuwon/David Robinson situation brewing with the 2011 MVP: What if Rose gets presented with the trophy in front of LeBron before a Bulls-Heat Round 2 playoff game? I picture a standard LeBron Eff You game (40, 10 and 10, five mean dunks, sits for the fourth quarter) making Hakeem's shakedown of The Admiral look like a birthday present."

Great call. Yet here's the difference between Rose and Robinson: Rose would get ticked off by the Eff You performance, try to match it … and then it would be on like Donkey Kong. Have I mentioned how excited I am for the 2011 playoffs? I've mentioned that, right? We're definitely getting Boston-Chicago, Boston-Miami or Chicago-Miami in Round 2. Round 2!!!! Any one of those three matchups will be old-school, '80s-style, no-handshaking bloodbaths. I can't wait for the refs to get overprotective and screw it up.


3. Kevin Durant
With LeBron splitting shots with the other MoHeatos, it's hard to foresee a situation in which KD's 30 a game wouldn't take the scoring title year after year after year until he got bored … and that's assuming 30 is his ceiling, when actually -- if Oklahoma City added a low-post threat and Durant bumped up his 3-point shooting (34 percent right now) -- he could climb to 33-34 pretty soon. (The record: MJ and Wilt both won seven straight scoring titles.) So worst-case scenario, barring injury, he'll be a rich man's George Gervin.

And with that said …

Remember this past September. Turkey? The Baster Game? Why did so many Team USA guys make a leap afterward (Rose, Westbrook, Gay, Love, Chandler, Odom, etc.) and Durant went sideways? Am I picking nits? Were my expectations too high? Are his teammates worse than we realize? Did he already HAVE his leap, and that's as far as we're going? You'd think Westbrook's leap would have facilitated a second mini-leap from Durant, right? And further--

(Oh, that's right … he's 22. I forgot.)



2. Dwight Howard
A good test case for one of my favorite games (inspired by Chuck Klosterman): "Overrated, underrated or properly rated?" In the Internet era, we spend so much time dissecting things that it's hard to find something that's properly rated -- we either think someone's getting a little too much credit or not quite enough. Right now, there are only a few properly rated things: "The Social Network," Albert Pujols, Rihanna, Aaron Rodgers, Jennifer Lopez in HD, "24/7," Chik-Fil-A, Jim Gray, Dr. James Andrews, TNT's "Inside the NBA" show, prison … it's not a long list. In basketball, we could go through every name on my top 50 list and I could tell you why they're overrated or underrated, whether it's slight or substantial.

But Dwight Howard? Properly rated. Nobody has ever said the words, "I got into a big argument about Dwight Howard last night" or "I read this great piece about Dwight Howard today." He's one of the best players in the league, but you'd never make the case that he's the best. He's one of the most valuable players in the league, but you'd never say he's most valuable. We don't take him for granted, and we don't think he's overrated. He's Dwight Howard: the best center since Shaq, a franchise player for a fringe contender, someone who's very very very very very very good but not quite great. And that's why he's properly rated.

But the next guy …?


1. LeBron James
Underrated. Even as we're constantly overrating him. And I swear, that made sense when I wrote it.

RZZZA
02-17-2011, 03:22 PM
is there really such a thing as un-tradable?

D Roses Bulls
02-17-2011, 03:23 PM
I don't care for simmons, but pretty good list.

Chronz
02-17-2011, 03:44 PM
Dont know what to make of Simmons, how does he have Manu below guys like DJ and Dumars?

Mile High Champ
02-17-2011, 04:05 PM
is there really such a thing as un-tradable?

I agree, any player can be had for the right price. Granted it maybe insane but any player can be traded. Wayne Gretzky proved that with the Oilers in the 80's.

abe_froman
02-17-2011, 04:11 PM
I agree, any player can be had for the right price. Granted it maybe insane but any player can be traded. Wayne Gretzky proved that with the Oilers in the 80's.

gretzky was 1.in a different sport and 2.threatening to leave in free agency when his contract was up.

but yes,in basketball there is such a thing as untradeable because the dynamics of the sport are different.one guy can make or break your franchise(see: cle),and there are many other that while could be traded the price is so steep that you can call them, for all intents and purposes, untradeable

RZZZA
02-17-2011, 04:26 PM
yeah the price may be steep but that doesnt mean theyre untradable, does it?

Lets say hypothetically and if the salaries matched, Lebron James for Melo, J.R. and Nene. Would the Heat do that?

Sixerlover
02-17-2011, 04:31 PM
I love a lot of Simmons' articles. The perfect mix of information and humor. A lot of articles thing long with no humor would bore me halfway through.

I agree with the top 15 though (the most important players)

footballer2369
02-17-2011, 04:33 PM
yeah the price may be steep but that doesnt mean theyre untradable, does it?

Lets say hypothetically and if the salaries matched, Lebron James for Melo, J.R. and Nene. Would the Heat do that?

Hellz no man.... At least Lawson would have to be there.

Lawson-Melo-Nene and a pick would be a maybe.

BTW, IMO, Wade is definitely in the first group. Not only is he the 2nd best player in the world in his prime, he's won a title and is a god in Miami. That, when combined with Riley's loyalty complex means he's never leaving via trade.

SteveNash
02-17-2011, 04:34 PM
yeah the price may be steep but that doesnt mean theyre untradable, does it?

Lets say hypothetically and if the salaries matched, Lebron James for Melo, J.R. and Nene. Would the Heat do that?

:facepalm:

There's maybe only two untradable players, Kobe and maybe Dirk. Besides that, LeBron would the only other one I could see.

The Jokemaker
02-17-2011, 04:35 PM
Always been a fan of Simmons but Howard isn't a great player? I don't follow the logic there. He is a great player.

abe_froman
02-17-2011, 04:35 PM
yeah the price may be steep but that doesnt mean theyre untradable, does it?

Lets say hypothetically and if the salaries matched, Lebron James for Melo, J.R. and Nene. Would the Heat do that?

i doubt it.

RZZZA
02-17-2011, 04:37 PM
Hellz no man.... At least Lawson would have to be there.

Lawson-Melo-Nene and a pick would be a maybe.

seriously? Lebron James is a great player but hes still only ONE player, in exchange for him you'd get 3 great players at different positions. I think you'd have to take that deal if you were the Heat.

maybe I'm crazy though. Imagine a starting line up of

Wade, Bosh, Melo, Nene + J.R. off the bench. It's better than what they have now.

Hitman21
02-17-2011, 04:39 PM
BTW, IMO, Wade is definitely in the first group. Not only is he the 2nd best player in the world in his prime, he's won a title and is a god in Miami. That, when combined with Riley's loyalty complex means he's never leaving via trade.

Im a huge wade fan...but how exactly is he the 2nd best in the world? which 2 is he better than? LBJ, Kobe, Durant?

abe_froman
02-17-2011, 04:40 PM
seriously? Lebron James is a great player but hes still only ONE player, in exchange for him you'd get 3 great players at different positions. I think you'd have to take that deal if you were the Heat.

maybe I'm crazy though. Imagine a starting line up of

Wade, Bosh, Melo, Nene + J.R. off the bench. It's better than what they have now.

your a bulls fan,would you do that for rose? i doubt it,our gm wouldnt.if you get one of those special type players you hold onto them like grim death.and hell as an owner you dont want pissing off the fanbase and loss of millions that would happen if it went down.

jim51990
02-17-2011, 04:43 PM
Always been a fan of Simmons but Howard isn't a great player? I don't follow the logic there. He is a great player.

actually i agree with him 100% dwight is a verry good player but he is not great he just simply benifits for the lack of any other good players at his position. With the lack of competition at center he should dominate on BOTH ends every game yet he doesnt even every other game.

justinnum1
02-17-2011, 04:45 PM
yeah the price may be steep but that doesnt mean theyre untradable, does it?

Lets say hypothetically and if the salaries matched, Lebron James for Melo, J.R. and Nene. Would the Heat do that?

Heat would do lebron for howard, anything less and no thank you.

justinnum1
02-17-2011, 04:46 PM
Im a huge wade fan...but how exactly is he the 2nd best in the world? which 2 is he better than? LBJ, Kobe, Durant?

He better than kobe right now, and better than durant. Plays better D than both, rebounds better than both, scores just as well.

TO to the CHI
02-17-2011, 04:47 PM
Heat would do lebron for howard, anything less and no thank you.

If this is true, Howard should be above Lebron on Simmons' list.

Interesting perspective. I don't necessarily disagree, but it surprises me.

TO to the CHI
02-17-2011, 04:52 PM
yeah the price may be steep but that doesnt mean theyre untradable, does it?

Lets say hypothetically and if the salaries matched, Lebron James for Melo, J.R. and Nene. Would the Heat do that?

The concept of the Simmons article is what players you would deal in a one for one move. Thus, there are several that are untradable (either because no one has sufficient value in that type of deal or because the very few players that do are similarly untradable). It is more of a theoretical concept because these one for one deals rarely happen. I don't think the Heat would touch your theoretical trade btw, but I could see other multiplayer LeBron deals that they would do.


Hellz no man.... At least Lawson would have to be there.

Lawson-Melo-Nene and a pick would be a maybe.

BTW, IMO, Wade is definitely in the first group. Not only is he the 2nd best player in the world in his prime, he's won a title and is a god in Miami. That, when combined with Riley's loyalty complex means he's never leaving via trade.

There are a lot of issues with your statements about Wade. You are overrating him badly, ignoring the fact that he is at best at the back-end of his prime and is pushing 30, and that he has had legit injury issues. I could actually see an argument for moving him down a few slots all things considered, though I think he is placed about right overall.

sargon21
02-17-2011, 04:52 PM
Heat wouldn't do Howard for Lebron.

CostanzaNumba0
02-17-2011, 04:56 PM
Amare stoudemire is better than lamarcus aldridge,, simmons is very subjective

RZZZA
02-17-2011, 04:58 PM
your a bulls fan,would you do that for rose? i doubt it,our gm wouldnt.if you get one of those special type players you hold onto them like grim death.and hell as an owner you dont want pissing off the fanbase and loss of millions that would happen if it went down.

I don't think Rose is comparable to Lebron in that way. I see Wade as Miami's D.Rose.

Lebron James JUST got there, it hasn't even been a year, don't tell me that Miami has grown so attached to him already.

Dade County
02-17-2011, 05:00 PM
Im a huge wade fan...but how exactly is he the 2nd best in the world? which 2 is he better than? LBJ, Kobe, Durant?

You are right, 2nd. Wade is the Best player in the world! :D

Knickrocketsfan
02-17-2011, 05:01 PM
He better than kobe right now, and better than durant. Plays better D than both, rebounds better than both, scores just as well.

come on man lets get real. Maybe he plays better D but thats about it. Wades offenseive game is limited to jump shots and driving + he not a good 3 point shooter. while kobe hasa a complete offensive game and is still a great defender

Sixerlover
02-17-2011, 05:05 PM
I don't think Rose is comparable to Lebron in that way. I see Wade as Miami's D.Rose.

Lebron James JUST got there, it hasn't even been a year, don't tell me that Miami has grown so attached to him already.

(You know it was coming)

And Miami would trade Wade for Melo + Nene + Smith??

James
Miller
Melo
Bosh
Nene is borderline unfair

TO to the CHI
02-17-2011, 05:05 PM
Amare stoudemire is better than lamarcus aldridge,, simmons is very subjective

Did you read the column? It takes into account salary (huge LA advantage), age (same), health (same), and talent (Amare's big advantage).

I think his conclusion between those two players is actually pretty reasonable.

Sixerlover
02-17-2011, 05:06 PM
Did you read the column? It takes into account salary (huge LA advantage), age (same), health (same), and talent (Amare's big advantage).

I think his conclusion between those two players is actually pretty reasonable.

Agreed, I think what LMA is doing in Portland right now is actually on par with what Amare did in New York earlier in the season. He's playing beastly basketball, but he isn't in Manhattan so it's getting no where near as much media attention

kArSoN RyDaH
02-17-2011, 05:07 PM
so Miami wouldn't trade LBJ for Howard? :rolleyes:

RZZZA
02-17-2011, 05:09 PM
(You know it was coming)

And Miami would trade Wade for Melo + Nene + Smith??

James
Miller
Melo
Bosh
Nene is borderline unfair

well Abe had a point about pissing off the fans, I understand that trading a player that has won the love of the fanbase away would be bad, even if the deal was great for the team. I know Miami loves Wade, so he really is untradable.

Lebron James though, I don't think is; justinuum even said he'd do it for Dwight Howard.

jtsunami
02-17-2011, 05:33 PM
For the idiots saying "why is A ahead of B? A is much better than B?" Read the damn rules. It takes into account age, salary, and more.

To the people who say "I don't think anyone is untradeable." This list is for players STRAIGHT UP. No picks, no extra players. Meaning since Lebron is number 1, Bill Simmons wouldn't trade Lebron for ANYONE STRAIGHT UP.

Example 2, Derrick Rose is number 4. The only players he would trade DRose for or even think about it would be Dwight, KD, and Lebron STAIGHT UP.

Please learn how to read.

RZZZA
02-17-2011, 05:37 PM
^ damn, ok

Cool007
02-17-2011, 05:50 PM
so Miami wouldn't trade LBJ for Howard? :rolleyes:

Ofcourse not. LeBron as much as I hate his guts, he is still the BEST PLAYER in the world right now.

However if you are talking about D-Wade for Dwight? Then Miami would be all over it.

If I am Miami, I don't trade LeBron for ANYONE.

JordansBulls
02-17-2011, 05:53 PM
yeah the price may be steep but that doesnt mean theyre untradable, does it?

Lets say hypothetically and if the salaries matched, Lebron James for Melo, J.R. and Nene. Would the Heat do that?

Maybe switch JR with Lawson so taht the Heat have a PG and you got a lineup of

PG Lawson
SG Wade
SF Melo
PF Bosh
C Nene

RZZZA
02-17-2011, 05:56 PM
yeaaah, hell, I might become a fan of that team. bye bye Bulls, hello Heat.

JordansBulls
02-17-2011, 05:56 PM
so Miami wouldn't trade LBJ for Howard? :rolleyes:

Well Orlando wouldn't do it for sure. Miami gets better or stays the same in that deal while Orlando gets significantly worse as they have no bigs. Now if Gortat is still there and Bass playing then it becomes a much better and equal deal.

Cool007
02-17-2011, 06:01 PM
Well Orlando wouldn't do it for sure. Miami gets better or stays the same in that deal while Orlando gets significantly worse as they have no bigs. Now if Gortat is still there and Bass playing then it becomes a much better and equal deal.

Are you really kidding me???

If that happens, Magic would completely rebuild their team around LeBron. It's not like they are even close to winning a title next to Dwight. They are actually getting worse. They need to rebuild anyway.

They already would have shooters next to LeBron, they can just trade couple of pieces for Nene or something and they would be title contender in months - not years.

Like I said, LeBron is the best player in the NBA, if you are Miami, you don't trade him period - no matter who it is.

JordansBulls
02-17-2011, 06:37 PM
Are you really kidding me???

If that happens, Magic would completely rebuild their team around LeBron. It's not like they are even close to winning a title next to Dwight. They are actually getting worse. They need to rebuild anyway.

They already would have shooters next to LeBron, they can just trade couple of pieces for Nene or something and they would be title contender in months - not years.

Like I said, LeBron is the best player in the NBA, if you are Miami, you don't trade him period - no matter who it is.

They would rebuild there team but would have to wait until the summer to do so. Also with Lebron how do you know he would stay there? He already left his home town team. But if he stayed and they got Nene they could be lethal especially with Arenas back the next year.

Anilyzer
02-17-2011, 06:44 PM
is there really such a thing as un-tradable?

Unreadable?


The only thing I'd disagree with is the phrase "extremely na´ve." Sports fans in 2011 are prepared for the worst at all times; that's just how we're wired now. I didn't mention PEDs in that piece because the extended primes of Nash/Kobe/Pierce/Nowitzki/Bryant were reasonable; they maintained their previous level of success for legitimate reasons, without a Bondsian jump in numbers that would have raised a red flag. The NBA also tests for this stuff; until 2005, baseball didn't test for anything even as some of its best players were growing second foreheads.

TO to the CHI
02-17-2011, 06:58 PM
They would rebuild there team but would have to wait until the summer to do so. Also with Lebron how do you know he would stay there? He already left his home town team. But if he stayed and they got Nene they could be lethal especially with Arenas back the next year.

Arenas would be the key to that team doing well, huh? I see you haven't been paying attention to basketball the past three years.

justinnum1
02-17-2011, 07:07 PM
Arenas would be the key to that team doing well, huh? I see you haven't been paying attention to basketball the past three years.

lol

kArSoN RyDaH
02-17-2011, 07:12 PM
Dwight to Miami for Lebron would mean game over for the NBA. Wade+ Dwight? WOW! Who cares about Orlando but Wade and Dwight along with Bosh would be more deadly. Also might need somewhat of a better bench to compete but still WOW!

Dnovakovic099
02-17-2011, 07:17 PM
Obviously everyone can and would be traded for the right price. You are telling me that the Heat wouldn't take the whole Bulls roster, including the coach, and all of their first round picks for the next 100 years for LeBron, ofcourse they would. That isn't the point of the article though. I liked the article, but I would have to think the Heat would trade LeBron before Wade just because he already won a title there and is a fan favorite. I do believe that will change within the next year or two, but you have to be loyal to some extent. Like, I wouldn't trade Rose for Lebron or for Dirk, Chandler, Marion and two first round picks, not because he is worth more than those players/picks, but because I have grown to love Rose.

JordansBulls
02-17-2011, 10:31 PM
Arenas would be the key to that team doing well, huh? I see you haven't been paying attention to basketball the past three years.

He hasn't been playing. But next year I expect him to be back in shape.

pd7631
02-17-2011, 10:34 PM
Evan Turner: Instead of mentioning Mount Bustmore (Kwame Brown, Darko Milicic, Hasheem Thabeet and Adam Morrison) every time we wonder if a high lottery pick might be a draft bust, I thought it would be easier to rename those four guys Kwarko Beetison, who absolutely sounds like someone Chris Wallace would have drafted. Anyway, Turner's Kwarko potential has dwindled to zero: He's contributing to an overachieving playoff team, he's had a few "I AM NOT UNAFRAID OF THIS MOMENT!" games, and he's the only draft pick since 2007 capable of submitting one of those wacky, Rondo-esque 12-17-15 box-score lines someday. Go on eBay, steal some of his rookie cards and thank me later.

damn right

footballer2369
02-17-2011, 10:45 PM
Im a huge wade fan...but how exactly is he the 2nd best in the world? which 2 is he better than? LBJ, Kobe, Durant?

The second two...and it's quite easily... Surpassed Kobe 3 seasons ago and Durant hasn't ever been there.

John Walls Era
02-17-2011, 10:54 PM
I always read Bill's stuff. Not much to say since its pretty subjective (even at the top). I will say that it got me to comment "Simmons!" in the youtube video.

John Walls Era
02-17-2011, 11:03 PM
NVM this part was funny:


I'd like to introduce a fake character called "Generic NBA Guy Who Knows Things," a distorted compilation of everyone in NBA circles who talks to me off the record. Here's GNGWNT on Amare these past four months:

October: "Amare is gonna have a big year. Huge, huge year. He likes the spotlight. New York will be good for him. He's dumb enough to think he's as big a star as LeBron or Wade. You need that attitude to succeed in New York."

November: "I told you!"

December: "D'Antoni is running Amare into the ground. His knees won't hold up. You don't write about coaches putting themselves above their players nearly enough, Simmons. D'Antoni is coaching for his next job; he doesn't care about Amare's availability in 2014. Did you see the Detroit game? Amare played 54 minutes in double-OT, then averaged 41 the next 10 games. And when his knees go, everyone will blame Dolan and Donnie for spending too much money on him."

January: "You see Amare's numbers this month? D'Antoni finally cut his minutes but it was too late -- his game went in the tank; 45 percent shooting? He hasn't been under 50 percent for an entire month since he was in junior high.

February: "I feel bad for Carmelo. He killed his legacy in Denver to get to the Knicks, and by the time he gets there, Amare will be cheering him on in $5,000 suits every night while D'Antoni is working for you guys on Friday nights arguing with Jon Barry. Mark my words, the MVP of the 2013 Knicks is going to be either Mozgov or Amare's tailor."

(And that concludes this week's episode of "Turd In The Knicks Fan Punch Bowl!" Don't blame me, blame Mike D'Antoni -- the guy who apparently forgot that Stoudemire's knees are so bad that the Knicks couldn't get his contract insured, then played him 576 minutes in 14 games over a four-week span. He hasn't been quite the same since. It's true.)

John Walls Era
02-17-2011, 11:08 PM
Im a huge wade fan...but how exactly is he the 2nd best in the world? which 2 is he better than? LBJ, Kobe, Durant?

He might not be better than Kobe (close), but hes better than Durant. He is way more versatile and I like KD as much as the next fan, but Wade has done things in the playoffs that KD has yet to reach. At THIS point, Wade is better. I don't get caught up with regular season numbers.

JordansBulls
02-18-2011, 09:33 AM
I always read Bill's stuff. Not much to say since its pretty subjective (even at the top). I will say that it got me to comment "Simmons!" in the youtube video.

Bill is one of the most unbiased sportswriters out there along with Sam Smith.

quade36
02-18-2011, 09:56 AM
Bill is one of the most unbiased sportswriters out there along with Sam Smith.

Unless it has anything to do with the Celtics. Then he is extremely biased. His manlove for Bill Russell is ridiculous.

TO to the CHI
02-18-2011, 10:06 AM
He hasn't been playing. But next year I expect him to be back in shape.

He has been awful even when playing. What exactly is your expectation based on? Do you also hope that horses will turn into unicorns?

TO to the CHI
02-18-2011, 10:09 AM
The second two...and it's quite easily... Surpassed Kobe 3 seasons ago and Durant hasn't ever been there.

Trust him. He know because he played basketball in the Ukraine. And because he has ten different posters of Dwyane Wade on his wall.

Using the criteria that Simmons laid out, Wade is properly placed and there are arguments that a couple of players who would be a better fit for Miami could be above him.

Btw, remember about a month ago when you laughed at me when I said considering age, contract, talent, performance, and teams that the Bulls would never deal Rose to get Wade, but the Heat would have to think about it, I guess I'm not alone.

TO to the CHI
02-18-2011, 10:10 AM
Unless it has anything to do with the Celtics. Then he is extremely biased. His manlove for Bill Russell is ridiculous.

This.

He is biased when it comes to Boston teams and their rivals. Overall he is an excellent writer though.

jeter4president
02-18-2011, 10:24 AM
I agree, any player can be had for the right price. Granted it maybe insane but any player can be traded. Wayne Gretzky proved that with the Oilers in the 80's.

at this moment in time there is literally no way you could get lebron from the heat, dwight from orlando (unless you offered lebron), or durant from OKC (again unless you offered lebron, which is the point of ranking him #1)....

the column makes perfect sense.

jeter4president
02-18-2011, 10:26 AM
Unless it has anything to do with the Celtics. Then he is extremely biased. His manlove for Bill Russell is ridiculous.

is it still considered biased if you admit that your a homer? he does.

Simmon's whole thing is to write columns as a fan.

Mile High Champ
02-18-2011, 11:50 AM
gretzky was 1.in a different sport and 2.threatening to leave in free agency when his contract was up.

but yes,in basketball there is such a thing as untradeable because the dynamics of the sport are different.one guy can make or break your franchise(see: cle),and there are many other that while could be traded the price is so steep that you can call them, for all intents and purposes, untradeable

He never threatened to leave, ownership was scared they could lose him. You could not be more wrong. If Gretzkty could be traded, than any player in sports can be traded. Every player has a price. Untradeable is a stupid term that gets thrown around way too much.

DaBUU
02-18-2011, 12:19 PM
come on man lets get real. Maybe he plays better D but thats about it. Wades offenseive game is limited to jump shots and driving + he not a good 3 point shooter. while kobe hasa a complete offensive game and is still a great defender

not to mention Kobe is one of the best post player in the game. Not just for a guard, but overall he's one of the best.

JordansBulls
02-18-2011, 02:24 PM
Unless it has anything to do with the Celtics. Then he is extremely biased. His manlove for Bill Russell is ridiculous.

I thought he would be, but he actually ranked MJ over Bill Russell.

Allstar21
02-18-2011, 04:45 PM
Keith bogans should be #1

footballer2369
02-18-2011, 04:53 PM
Bill is one of the most unbiased sportswriters out there along with Sam Smith.

No one else found this hilarious?


Trust him. He know because he played basketball in the Ukraine. And because he has ten different posters of Dwyane Wade on his wall.

Using the criteria that Simmons laid out, Wade is properly placed and there are arguments that a couple of players who would be a better fit for Miami could be above him.

Btw, remember about a month ago when you laughed at me when I said considering age, contract, talent, performance, and teams that the Bulls would never deal Rose to get Wade, but the Heat would have to think about it, I guess I'm not alone.

I don't remember, but I still know the Heat would never consider making that move, it's not how we run things here. It would be a step back now and Riley's too loyal.

JordansBulls
02-18-2011, 05:41 PM
No one else found this hilarious?


He is a good writer.

astrosmaniac
02-18-2011, 05:51 PM
They would rebuild there team but would have to wait until the summer to do so. Also with Lebron how do you know he would stay there? He already left his home town team. But if he stayed and they got Nene they could be lethal especially with Arenas back the next year.

...cause lebron is under contract for 5/6 years

JordansBulls
02-18-2011, 06:31 PM
...cause lebron is under contract for 5/6 years

Now he is.

John Walls Era
02-18-2011, 06:33 PM
Bill is one of the most unbiased sportswriters out there along with Sam Smith.

I like Bill and don't mind Sam, but I don't know about both of them being non homers

footballer2369
02-18-2011, 06:45 PM
He is a good writer.

But he writes fiction in a non-fiction industry...

flclfanman
02-18-2011, 07:26 PM
For the idiots saying "why is A ahead of B? A is much better than B?" Read the damn rules. It takes into account age, salary, and more.

To the people who say "I don't think anyone is untradeable." This list is for players STRAIGHT UP. No picks, no extra players. Meaning since Lebron is number 1, Bill Simmons wouldn't trade Lebron for ANYONE STRAIGHT UP.

Example 2, Derrick Rose is number 4. The only players he would trade DRose for or even think about it would be Dwight, KD, and Lebron STAIGHT UP.

Please learn how to read.

:clap::clap::clap:

Thank you.Almost everybody before this post didn't read all of Simmons' article. Its who you would trade for 1 for 1, no group deals. If the latter was true NO ONE would be safe (Blake+Gordon+ Jordan+picks for LBJ? :drool:)

But if we're trading mano-a-mano NONE OF those top 5 gets traded. EVER.

JordansBulls
02-18-2011, 09:19 PM
But he writes fiction in a non-fiction industry...

How so?

JordansBulls
02-20-2011, 10:26 AM
:clap::clap::clap:


But if we're trading mano-a-mano NONE OF those top 5 gets traded. EVER.

:)