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View Full Version : How can the Raptors get better?



Gambeezy
02-17-2011, 01:32 AM
They have the 4th worst record in the league and aren't showing signs of immediate improvement.

Great fan base, city, arena, and young talent spread throughout that team, yet I can't decide what would be the best move for them to improve.

Should they test Bargnani's trade value on the market in hopes that they can somehow move him and pieces for a decent defensive-minded center and a premiere scorer?

Does it start with front office and coaching changes?

I'm just getting tired of seeing them lose b/c their starting center refuses to rebound or play defense.

What do you guys think they could get for Bargs?

The Jokemaker
02-17-2011, 01:38 AM
Well considering they just lost their franchise player I'd say theyre doing ok. Takes time to build things and they're going to have to draft well and make smart personnel moves to get into contention. Fans will have to show patience which is as rare as a shiny pokemon these days.

Sadds The Gr8
02-17-2011, 01:40 AM
1) we need to get a true Center to move Bargs down to PF.
2) we need a PG that can play at least DECENT defense, and can slash/create well for others.
3) we need more 3 pt shooting and defensive minded wing players.
4) after that, let the young guys develop

woah just noticed this is in the NBA forum...this is gonna get moved.

Gambeezy
02-17-2011, 01:46 AM
Barg's had a nice shooting night against the Heat tonight, but the Raps offense went stagnant many times because Barg's was camping around the 3pt line. He's intangible on defense and doesn't earn his check in the paint on offense. I know they are going to have to draft well to turn it around next season, but do you think they should be looking to move Barg's for a more conventional center?

The Jokemaker
02-17-2011, 01:47 AM
No I think they should keep Barg and get a true Center so he can move to a Dirk type role.

LTBaByyy
02-17-2011, 01:48 AM
The #1 overall pick in a draft

Hustlenomics
02-17-2011, 01:50 AM
Kyle Irving

abe_froman
02-17-2011, 01:51 AM
What do you guys think they could get for Bargs?

less than raptor fans/gm want,more than other fanbase's think.

as for getting better.run a different system/new coach,move bargs to the 4 or trade him,and stockpile up on high draft picks they're sure to have...oh and something that rarely gets mentioned but i think helps,sign some vet role players from winning teams to back up the young guys to help them learn

JiffyMix88
02-17-2011, 01:53 AM
they need to stop having star players bail out on them( Tracy, Vince, and Chris)

Gambeezy
02-17-2011, 01:54 AM
1) we need to get a true Center to move Bargs down to PF.
2) we need a PG that can play at least DECENT defense, and can slash/create well for others.
3) we need more 3 pt shooting and defensive minded wing players.
4) after that, let the young guys develop

I used to like Calderon quite a bit, but his defense has been pretty suspect all season and when his 3pt shot isn't falling, he's almost useless. It's like you said, he isn't a guy who's going to put the ball on the floor and drive the lane to create for other teammates. He may not be apart of your future success.

I like the young prospects. Derozan's shot is coming along nicely and he's not afraid to attack. Ideally, Barg's at PF with a defensive center would be excellent. I always thought the Raps would have been great if they had a great PG to pair with Bosh, and had a defensive enforcer in the paint.

thekmp211
02-17-2011, 01:58 AM
yeah more talent would help. a real point guard and center, too. those are pretty important things.

davis and derozan and maybe maybe weems to some extent seem to be promising young guys. bargnani would look better at the four, but he's good. they should get better if they add the correct pieces.

Raps18-19 Champ
02-17-2011, 02:16 AM
Other than getting a true center, they are on pace to become a good team assuming all their young prospects stay.

Derozan and Bargnani have improved a lot and will keep improving. Davis is looking like a nice defensive player. Amir looks like a good energy guy that will get some points.

They are going to get a high pick too where they should try to aim for Kyrie Irving and have a Irving/Bayless PG rotation where both players have a lot of potential.

The SF is an issue but they got Weems and Wright who can become decent role players. Weems is athletic and can be decent player if he becomes a smarter player and if he stop taking so much shots, he can be a decent scorer off the bench. Wright is versatile, athletic and good defensively. He can become a Diaw type of player if he develops properly.

beasted86
02-17-2011, 02:17 AM
Play defense.

/thread

heyman321
02-17-2011, 02:23 AM
They need to get the #1 overall pick, that's what. And I have a feeling the Raptors WILL acutally get it, cause the worst team (Cavs) never acutally get hte first pick.

Rego247
02-17-2011, 02:25 AM
I used to like Calderon quite a bit, but his defense has been pretty suspect all season and when his 3pt shot isn't falling, he's almost useless. It's like you said, he isn't a guy who's going to put the ball on the floor and drive the lane to create for other teammates. He may not be apart of your future success.

I like the young prospects. Derozan's shot is coming along nicely and he's not afraid to attack. Ideally, Barg's at PF with a defensive center would be excellent. I always thought the Raps would have been great if they had a great PG to pair with Bosh, and had a defensive enforcer in the paint.

i woulda loved for that charlotte deal to have gone down so we could see how bargs plays beside tyson chandler. but alas we shall never know. we have some young studs in demar and davis, especially davis. hes everything we coulda asked for in a 13th pick and more. it is imperative we address the 1 and 5 spot this offseason. jose is a great backup but not a starter, he'd be great coming off the bench on a contending team.

the most interesting thing is what we do at the 5 spot. if we get a defensive C and switch bargs to the 4, that means davis will still be getting bench minutes next year, which isnt gonna speed up his development. and if ed continues to improve in the future, we might have a to decide whos more important to the franchise ed or bargs. should be an interesting summer.

jakedajewler
02-17-2011, 02:38 AM
Raps O is fine, it's their D that is brutal

John Walls Era
02-17-2011, 02:41 AM
1) we need to get a true Center to move Bargs down to PF.
2) we need a PG that can play at least DECENT defense, and can slash/create well for others.
3) we need more 3 pt shooting and defensive minded wing players.
4) after that, let the young guys develop

woah just noticed this is in the NBA forum...this is gonna get moved.

I agree with this. TBH Bargs at PF with DD at SG is a great start. Now get a elite PG and I think this team is pretty good.

pebloemer
02-17-2011, 10:13 AM
Barg's had a nice shooting night against the Heat tonight, but the Raps offense went stagnant many times because Barg's was camping around the 3pt line. He's intangible on defense and doesn't earn his check in the paint on offense. I know they are going to have to draft well to turn it around next season, but do you think they should be looking to move Barg's for a more conventional center?

There are many fans in that camp. Depends on his value to other teams. The other thoughts that have surfaced are moving him to PF and putting a legit C beside him or putting him in a 6th man type roll for a scorer burst off the bench.

Overall though, to get better it will take some time. We have some nice young pieces developing in DeRozan, Davis, Amir and Bargnani. It is finding a fit among this group and finding the complimentary pieces that we need. Some defensive players are essential in pretty much every position, some veteran leadership could help, an impact player out of the draft would be great. Otherwise, lots of cap space this off-season should help insulate this core better.

To summarize: add another piece of the core through the draft then insulate the core through free agency. Could be a big off-season, could be a flop of an off-season, we'll have to wait to find out.

JasonJohnHorn
02-17-2011, 10:33 AM
How to get better? Fire their GM and coach and put Barngani on the trading block...

Seriously, when Colangelo took over, they had the COTY with Sam mitchell, they were a playoff team with a solid franchise player, and in a short few years he passed up on the likes of Beirdins, Granger, Jarret Jack (who he later signed), Roy, Gay and a host of other players who could have helped turned these guys into contenders and has done little in free agency (Turkaglu? Kapono? Jack?).

the team was on the upswing when he took over, and now they look like they are at least three years away from putting together a competetive squad.

pebloemer
02-17-2011, 10:58 AM
How to get better? Fire their GM and coach and put Barngani on the trading block...

Seriously, when Colangelo took over, they had the COTY with Sam mitchell, they were a playoff team with a solid franchise player, and in a short few years he passed up on the likes of Beirdins, Granger, Jarret Jack (who he later signed), Roy, Gay and a host of other players who could have helped turned these guys into contenders and has done little in free agency (Turkaglu? Kapono? Jack?).

the team was on the upswing when he took over, and now they look like they are at least three years away from putting together a competetive squad.

Mitchell didn't get coach of the year until the season after Colangelo was hired. He also has not found a head coaching job since he's been fired.

You really should get all your facts straight when making arguments...

In Colangelo's first season he overhauled the roster and got a division winning team. Things went downhill from there, but they weren't on the upswing until he brought in the players to make it so.

Biedrins was drafted in 2004.
Granger and Jack were drafted in 2005.
(a side note: i find it hilarious that you incorrectly ridicule Colangelo for passing up on drafted Jack, then criticize him for signing him)
Colangelo was hired in 2006.

Your facts are so far off that I can't take your opinion seriously at all. You can't skew reality to meet your argument. And at least look at the positive and the negative to offer some balance to your argument.

The BodyGuard
02-17-2011, 11:08 AM
they need to stop having star players bail out on them( Tracy, Vince, and Chris)

It would be nice If they could bring back Mcgrady and Cater :)

Just like old times..
Mann I miss that old Raptors Jersey( With the Raptor On it )

TO to the CHI
02-17-2011, 11:20 AM
Mitchell didn't get coach of the year until the season after Colangelo was hired. He also has not found a head coaching job since he's been fired.

You really should get all your facts straight when making arguments...

In Colangelo's first season he overhauled the roster and got a division winning team. Things went downhill from there, but they weren't on the upswing until he brought in the players to make it so.

Biedrins was drafted in 2004.
Granger and Jack were drafted in 2005.
(a side note: i find it hilarious that you incorrectly ridicule Colangelo for passing up on drafted Jack, then criticize him for signing him)
Colangelo was hired in 2006.

Your facts are so far off that I can't take your opinion seriously at all. You can't skew reality to meet your argument. And at least look at the positive and the negative to offer some balance to your argument.

Please don't waste your time with him. He's not a troll, just an idiot. Giving him factual information won't fix that.

Trace
02-17-2011, 11:29 AM
There are many fans in that camp. Depends on his value to other teams. The other thoughts that have surfaced are moving him to PF and putting a legit C beside him or putting him in a 6th man type roll for a scorer burst off the bench.

Overall though, to get better it will take some time. We have some nice young pieces developing in DeRozan, Davis, Amir and Bargnani. It is finding a fit among this group and finding the complimentary pieces that we need. Some defensive players are essential in pretty much every position, some veteran leadership could help, an impact player out of the draft would be great. Otherwise, lots of cap space this off-season should help insulate this core better.

To summarize: add another piece of the core through the draft then insulate the core through free agency. Could be a big off-season, could be a flop of an off-season, we'll have to wait to find out.

I hope BC doesn't site idly this season but I do have a feeling that TPE isn't going to do **** for this team.

LanceUpperCut
02-17-2011, 11:36 AM
We do need to make some moves Bargnani can be effective, his rebound is horrible but last night's game was only close cause of Bargnani. When 4 of your 6 top scores shoot for about %20 not sure of actual stat probably worse your gonna lose, where not the Heat we have no big three.

We do have to many PF's so something has to be done there especially if Barg's get moved to PF. By the way Bosh had 6 boards compared to AB's 4 and Boshes D let Bargnani go off for 38 pts. on %58 fg.

Hellcrooner
02-17-2011, 11:36 AM
Get a REAL center to allow Bargs to play his real position at PF.
Marc Gasol for example.
Get a high draft pick and pick a better SG than Derozan or a Better Sf.
One that can deffend if posible.

That gets them into playoffs again.

NBA-GMaster
02-17-2011, 11:37 AM
hmm.. trade everybody on the roster except for Derozan and Davis.. If they can find a taker for Bargnani in exchange for a top 1-7 lottery pick, then trade him..
Find a shooter wing man, a starter PG and big rebounder center, and also some veterans for backup(it helps the young players a lot)..
And get lucky in draft players.. Even a 2nd rd pick could turn into a A++ player..

LanceUpperCut
02-17-2011, 11:39 AM
How to get better? Fire their GM and coach and put Barngani on the trading block...

Seriously, when Colangelo took over, they had the COTY with Sam mitchell, they were a playoff team with a solid franchise player, and in a short few years he passed up on the likes of Beirdins, Granger, Jarret Jack (who he later signed), Roy, Gay and a host of other players who could have helped turned these guys into contenders and has done little in free agency (Turkaglu? Kapono? Jack?).

the team was on the upswing when he took over, and now they look like they are at least three years away from putting together a competetive squad.

Do you just make **** up as you go?

Trace
02-17-2011, 11:42 AM
hmm.. trade everybody on the roster except for Derozan and Davis.. If they can find a taker for Bargnani in exchange for a top 1-7 lottery pick, then trade him..
Find a shooter wing man, a starter PG and big rebounder center, and also some veterans for backup(it helps the young players a lot)..
And get lucky in draft players.. Even a 2nd rd pick could turn into a A++ player..

meh why give up on Bargnani so early?

NBA-GMaster
02-17-2011, 11:56 AM
meh why give up on Bargnani so early?

one of the top 1-10 draft pick vs Bargnani = i choose the draft pick, much cheaper and both same potential players..

Trace
02-17-2011, 11:59 AM
one of the top 1-10 draft pick vs Bargnani = i choose the draft pick, much cheaper and both same potential players..

You don't know what you're getting from a 1-10 draft pick versus you already see that Bargnani has the potential to improve.

NBA-GMaster
02-17-2011, 12:10 PM
You don't know what you're getting from a 1-10 draft pick versus you already see that Bargnani has the potential to improve.

that's only my opinion.. take a look of what OKC had achieved, with Durant,Westbrook and Green.. Yup he's a good shooter not a great ins scorer plus he's a 7 ft tall, Raptors need defense and rebound from him..

SensandRaps
02-17-2011, 12:23 PM
they need to get a star player to come here in free agency, until we do that we are going to be considered the place were players go to revive there nba careers. even if it means overpay we need to get a star to choose toronto over the rest of the teams in the league. until then most free agents wont take us seriously. Along with that we need a good defensive center

Crackadalic
02-17-2011, 12:25 PM
Kyle Irving
:clap: Thank you. HE is gonna be a star for years to come

Klivlend
02-17-2011, 12:36 PM
Make more shots = Score more points = Win more games

It really is that simple.

Hitman21
02-17-2011, 12:48 PM
kyle irving

who?

THE GIPPER
02-17-2011, 01:03 PM
hmm.. trade everybody on the roster except for Derozan and Davis.. If they can find a taker for Bargnani in exchange for a top 1-7 lottery pick, then trade him..
Find a shooter wing man, a starter PG and big rebounder center, and also some veterans for backup(it helps the young players a lot)..
And get lucky in draft players.. Even a 2nd rd pick could turn into a A++ player..

This + KYRIE irving

miller74
02-17-2011, 01:11 PM
Draft Kyrie Irving. Dump Calderon, Klazia, Barganni. Go back in time and take back the Amir Johnson contract. Fire the overrated BC who rebuilds the team on a yearly basis. And move forward with Derozn, Irving, and Davis

masTOR_shake1
02-17-2011, 01:13 PM
Deff need a real center. Drafting centres is always tough though so I don't really know how they are going to do it but they need to get bargs to the 4 spot as soon as possible. Tough call though as there is only room for bargs or davis at the 4 and this team will be terrible for a while to come with bargs as the center. There are some bright spots for sure but the near-future looks pretty bleek to me as a raps fan as this draft class is apparently a little weak too :( Go Jays for now!

Car Ramrod
02-17-2011, 01:14 PM
They need to get Reggie Evans back. When he went down is when things really started to fall apart.

I would love to see Marc Gasol there next year or Shane Battier. Not premier pickups but good fits. Maybe if Boston can't sign Glen Davis.

smith&wesson
02-17-2011, 01:16 PM
all we need is a good starting 3

the ironic part is that beasly was offered by miami and we turned it down for a trade acception and signed kleiza to a lucrative deal :facepalm:

derozen, beasly, bargs, ed davis, johnson would have been a nice young core to build around. very nice imo.

LanceUpperCut
02-17-2011, 01:22 PM
Draft Kyrie Irving. Dump Calderon, Klazia, Barganni. Go back in time and take back the Amir Johnson contract. Fire the overrated BC who rebuilds the team on a yearly basis. And move forward with Derozn, Irving, and Davis

I find this hilarious how some of you find that to be a bad contact, look at some stats(advanced stats) and compare to other players making his money add to the fact he's 23 and made a huge jump this year from last telling me hes improving. Oh **** he fouls a lot on a team that constantly gets burned up front and on the wings he must be garbage for being the guy who puts them to the line other than easy lay-ups

td_tb
02-17-2011, 01:22 PM
Kyle Irving

he will be the best PG in the NBA, dudes unreal

GrantHustle
02-17-2011, 01:34 PM
Sign Kendrick Perkins (Going to have to overpay)....then slide bargs over to PF so we can hide some of his flaws.....Hopefully draft Kyrie Irving....Dump Calderon....and sign a guy like Battier good defence, can hit a 3, good leadership for a young team...All this would improve the raps big time

Rego247
02-17-2011, 01:45 PM
all we need is a good starting 3

the ironic part is that beasly was offered by miami and we turned it down for a trade acception and signed kleiza to a lucrative deal :facepalm:

derozen, beasly, bargs, ed davis, johnson would have been a nice young core to build around. very nice imo.

im not losing sleep over beasley, plus once kleiza comes back, his contract wont be that hard to move.

superabound
02-17-2011, 01:55 PM
C-O-N-T-R-A-C-T-I-O-N...
along with Memphis and New Orleans as well

Too many teams, not enough talent to fill them.

And then they can give the Hornet's historical record back to Charlotte where it belongs

FlakeyFool
02-17-2011, 02:41 PM
get rid of one of the leagues biggest marketed teams

haha

Trace
02-17-2011, 03:35 PM
that's only my opinion.. take a look of what OKC had achieved, with Durant,Westbrook and Green.. Yup he's a good shooter not a great ins scorer plus he's a 7 ft tall, Raptors need defense and rebound from him..

haha take a look at some other teams that rebuilt with draft picks

i.e Indiana, Charlotte etc

It's hit or miss really...Kevin Durant is a franchise player. That's pretty rare. Last draft with a franchise player was in 2003 with Lebron and Wade.

John Walls Era
02-17-2011, 03:42 PM
Get a REAL center to allow Bargs to play his real position at PF.
Marc Gasol for example.
Get a high draft pick and pick a better SG than Derozan or a Better Sf.
One that can deffend if posible.

That gets them into playoffs again.

I wanted Gasol since he entered the league to be on the Raptors... so underrated. I do like Derozan though, I think he will excel; I mean hes leaps and bounds better than he was last year.

tangent12
02-17-2011, 03:47 PM
Hey for realzzzz, the Raptors have a nice little team. Bargs is playing to expectations.

I like that team, I think they just need a good solid pass first/shoot second minded PG who's still an offensive threat and a physical/hustler type C down low. Then they'd be giving teams some headaches.

Bargs is a nightmare to guard for most teams.

TO to the CHI
02-17-2011, 04:06 PM
C-O-N-T-R-A-C-T-I-O-N...
along with Memphis and New Orleans as well

Too many teams, not enough talent to fill them.

And then they can give the Hornet's historical record back to Charlotte where it belongs

Why don't we just contract the 76ers. They draw far fewer fans even though they are competing for the playoffs and the Raptors are clearly rebuilding. Not to mention the Raps have a bunch of young talent, a top-5 pick coming up, and no Elton Brand.

Trace
02-17-2011, 04:19 PM
C-O-N-T-R-A-C-T-I-O-N...
along with Memphis and New Orleans as well

Too many teams, not enough talent to fill them.

And then they can give the Hornet's historical record back to Charlotte where it belongs

You're so ****ing dumb. Toronto is one of the league's top 10 most valuable franchises. Of all the teams why would they choose to contract Toronto? LMFAO :facepalm:

the_jon
02-17-2011, 04:26 PM
C-O-N-T-R-A-C-T-I-O-N...
along with Memphis and New Orleans as well

Too many teams, not enough talent to fill them.

And then they can give the Hornet's historical record back to Charlotte where it belongs
189 posts and you've already lost all credibility. Congratulations!

Flash3
02-17-2011, 04:33 PM
C-O-N-T-R-A-C-T-I-O-N...
along with Memphis and New Orleans as well

Too many teams, not enough talent to fill them.

And then they can give the Hornet's historical record back to Charlotte where it belongs

so keep charlotte and contract a huge market like toronto hmm

Chronz
02-17-2011, 06:28 PM
I love how everyone is saying to get a defensive minded center when their biggest problems lay on the perimeter. Besides their Center (Amir) is arguably their best player

tangent12
02-17-2011, 07:02 PM
I love how everyone is saying to get a defensive minded center when their biggest problems lay on the perimeter. Besides their Center (Amir) is arguably their best player

Ohh gee that wasn't directed at me, was it Chronz!!

Rapthug
02-17-2011, 07:45 PM
The Raps have some nice pieces....not a lot but some.

Amir: has learned to stay on the floor more of late avoiding foul trouble. Amazing motor, great attitude, and good hands. Even developing some moves in the paint and has shown he can hit a jumper. You always wanna scream when he shots but it seems to go in more times than not. Solid defender and has a nose for the ball.

Demar: he's playing better than I thought he ever would. His jumper has come a long way. Suspect handle but he seems to be driven to get better. Defense is poor.

Ed Davis: defense is way ahead of his O. If he adds some muscle this guy could be a beast on D. Quick off his feet and is always looking to block and alter shots.

Bargs: if Ben Gordon was 7 ft and 270 lbs, white, and Italian I suspect he would look alot like Andrea. I think the C vs PF talk is foolish. It makes no difference where he plays.....he's not stopping anyone and he'll never rebound. He's a shooter.....amazing touch for a guy his size.....but that's it. I actually think his best role is as a 6th man.

Triano: he can coach. No one could have done a better job with this roster. They play hard. Keeping a losing team playing hard is a major accomplishment and speaks volumes.

Key moving forward is the draft. The Raps need to hit a home run with their 2 picks first round picks. First need is a PG. I think everyone knows that. PG is the most impt position in todays NBA unless you have a Kobe or Wade.

Filling in the roster with defensive minded free agents is key. Guys like Shane Battier and Tyson Chandler....not saying the Raps would get them but these are the kinda guys they need.

dtmagnet
02-17-2011, 08:19 PM
Irving would make the Raptors exponentially better in my opinion, I'm not sure what the solution is for the frontcourt. They have 3 solid PF's in Davis Amir and Bargnani so they need to decide if they want to move forward with all 3 or maybe trade one to fill another position of need (small forward?) There are a few free agent C's this year who could be impact players for them and they have the cap space to sign one. Depending on the moves the Raptors make they could be back in the playoffs as soon as next year if not the year after, with some solid young players to build a team with.