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View Full Version : Will a Mike D'Antoni-coached team ever win a championship?



mrblisterdundee
02-17-2011, 12:50 AM
Everybody's excited about where Donny Walsh and D'Antoni have the Knicks going. I won't deny that they're much better. Let's not forget, though, that D'Antoni's style of play is all about excitement, while lacking some other necessary elements.
Defense is proven to win championships. D'Antoni teams are notoriously bad, defensively. Can it really be blamed on the teams, or is the coach the problem? There's no question that D'Antoni's teams will always be exciting to watch, but will a team coached under D'Antoni's style of play ever win a championship?

justinnum1
02-17-2011, 12:56 AM
No

beasted86
02-17-2011, 12:56 AM
Hard to say.

Don Nelson eventually got a defensive minded assistant in Avery Johnson to take over the defensive coaching pretty much, and the Mavericks improved a lot and got closer.

But for sure, if D'Antoni by himself is the basis for the defensive coaching of any team... No, they will never win a championship.

Slimsim
02-17-2011, 12:59 AM
IDK the game is always changing

rhino17
02-17-2011, 12:59 AM
Not a chance, it will be tough for him to ever find a more talented team than some of those ones in Phoenix, and he couldn't do it there

His system can quickly turn a struggling team into one that can win games, but not one that will win championships

210Don
02-17-2011, 12:59 AM
of course not

blastmasta26
02-17-2011, 01:00 AM
Hard to say.

Don Nelson eventually got a defensive minded assistant in Avery Johnson to take over the defensive coaching pretty much, and the Mavericks improved a lot and got closer.

But for sure, if D'Antoni by himself is the basis for the defensive coaching of any team... No, they will never win a championship.
True. Knicks should definitely look into a defensive assistant if one is available.

NJ Raven
02-17-2011, 01:02 AM
I don't see it happening. Winning a seven game series takes quality defense. Boston's catalyst last playoffs was Tony Allen. You need effort of the defensive end.

beasted86
02-17-2011, 01:04 AM
True. Knicks should definitely look into a defensive assistant if one is available.

One of the primary problems is there is only so much they can coach using the half court sets.

A lot of people don't realize this uptempo 7 seconds or less system is not just an offensive system, it's defensive as well. A lot of full court pressing, gambling on steals & blocks, and guys shooting the break instead of securing the defensive rebound.

The BodyGuard
02-17-2011, 01:04 AM
Yes...No... Maybe

It depends on who's on the team.
if they can some how get Melo and Deron Williams then yes..But this roster now..No

NYsFinest
02-17-2011, 01:04 AM
OH STOP IT... his Suns teams consistently got to the Conference Finals and had they not suspended half the team against the Spurs they may have very well swept the Pistons in the Finals that year. People forget that PACE skews the PPA numbers, the Knicks give up like the most points in the NBA but are 19th in defense. His Suns teams were always the middle of the pack in defensive efficiency. He's not a defensive genius by any means, but to say his teams play ZERO defense means you don't understand basketball, they play defense but give up the occasional easy fast break baskets due to the fact pace... but they also get the easy baskets as well. 19th defensively with Amare Stoudamire and Wilson Chandler as your starting front court is not awful.

iggypop123
02-17-2011, 01:05 AM
maybe if robert horry becomes back from retirement to bait their opponents

beasted86
02-17-2011, 01:12 AM
OH STOP IT... his Suns teams consistently got to the Conference Finals and had they not suspended half the team against the Spurs they may have very well swept the Pistons in the Finals that year. People forget that PACE skews the PPA numbers, the Knicks give up like the most points in the NBA but are 19th in defense. His Suns teams were always the middle of the pack in defensive efficiency. He's not a defensive genius by any means, but to say his teams play ZERO defense means you don't understand basketball, they play defense but give up the occasional easy fast break baskets due to the fact pace... but they also get the easy baskets as well. 19th defensively with Amare Stoudamire and Wilson Chandler as your starting front court is not awful.

He also had Marion (top 3 defensive SF at the time), and Raja Bell (top 3 defensive SG at the time) on the roster, both in their prime.... and they were still only an average defensive team.

I don't think with what the Knicks have, and what they are likely to get in free agency they will ever be as good as those Phoenix teams were defensively, and they weren't even that good as I just pointed out.

DaBear
02-17-2011, 01:19 AM
No, because he doesn't know defense.

nyanks79
02-17-2011, 01:23 AM
Sure.

NYK_kidd77
02-17-2011, 01:29 AM
No. Yes. Maybe...

meloman1592
02-17-2011, 01:40 AM
His style with this team...no. His style with melo,amare and cp3 or deron..yesss

The Jokemaker
02-17-2011, 01:44 AM
Yeah I could very well see them winning it. If they get the right players on the team they can win it.

xabial
02-17-2011, 01:50 AM
I picked yes because if, (And thats a BIG if), Carmelo goes to NY, and Knicks get under the cap again in 2011 (VERY Possible with Felton's Expiring contract, Turiaf's expiring contract, Douglas's,list goes on...), you can sign one of dwight, deron, cp3 and have a big three of:

If Carmelo goes to NY with Chauncey via Trade Knicks Have $19,000,000+ in Expiring Contracts For Cp3, deron or Dwight. Thats three Life changing Free Agent Super star players, one's gotta give and go to NY.

PG Deron or cp3
SF Carmelo
PF Amare
SG Who cares?
C Hopefully mosgov

OR

PG Who cares?
SG Who cares?
SF Carmelo
PF Amare
C Dwight

Could very well be the Heat 2.0, idk.

Meatmypet
02-17-2011, 01:57 AM
I picked yes because if, (And thats a BIG if), Carmelo goes to NY, and Knicks get under the cap again in 2011 (VERY Possible with Felton's Expiring contract, Turiaf's expiring contract, Douglas's,list goes on...), you can sign one of dwight, deron, cp3 and have a big three of:

If Carmelo goes to NY with Chauncey via Trade Knicks Have $19,000,000+ in Expiring Contracts For Cp3, deron or Dwight. Thats three Life changing Free Agent Super star players, one's gotta give and go to NY.

PG Deron or cp3
SF Carmelo
PF Amare
SG Who cares?
C Hopefully mosgov

OR

PG Who cares?
SG Who cares?
SF Carmelo
PF Amare
C Dwight

Could very well be the Heat 2.0, idk.

We need a PG, much rather have a facilitator than another PnR defensive version of Amare. Besides, as Hahn have said, Dwight's not NY material--- definitely more LA material :P

Back on topic; with the correct personnel, of course he can.

ifhmondays
02-17-2011, 02:30 AM
if he kept his offensive style and incorporated a scott skiles style defense then yes, vertually vice versa but not as long as one style is all you go.

Sadds The Gr8
02-17-2011, 02:34 AM
must've been only Knicks fans that voted yes.

AddiX
02-17-2011, 02:38 AM
must've been only Knicks fans that voted yes.

Maybe should defense from the Raptors.:facepalm:

If Mike wasn't stuck in a conference with 2 dynasties in SA and LA, he would been to the championship multiple times. If he was in the east with that team who knows how many times.

That's just how basketball works. As a Knick fan I don't even like Mike, but you can't knock the guy for not having a ring.

There's lots of great coaches, defensive minded, who haven't even gotten close to the kinds of wins Mike has produced when he was in PHX.

iFYouSeekAmy
02-17-2011, 02:38 AM
Well, Don Nelson couldn't do it.

John Walls Era
02-17-2011, 02:48 AM
If they get Melo then the chances are greater... which seems obvious right? Then what are the Knicks waiting for?

John Walls Era
02-17-2011, 02:49 AM
Maybe should defense from the Raptors.:facepalm:

If Mike wasn't stuck in a conference with 2 dynasties in SA and LA, he would been to the championship multiple times. If he was in the east with that team who knows how many times.

That's just how basketball works. As a Knick fan I don't even like Mike, but you can't knock the guy for not having a ring.

There's lots of great coaches, defensive minded, who haven't even gotten close to the kinds of wins Mike has produced when he was in PHX.

Please type again...

Sadds The Gr8
02-17-2011, 04:26 AM
Maybe should defense from the Raptors.:facepalm:

If Mike wasn't stuck in a conference with 2 dynasties in SA and LA, he would been to the championship multiple times. If he was in the east with that team who knows how many times.

That's just how basketball works. As a Knick fan I don't even like Mike, but you can't knock the guy for not having a ring.

There's lots of great coaches, defensive minded, who haven't even gotten close to the kinds of wins Mike has produced when he was in PHX.

lol what? terrible sentence followed by a facepalm...how ironic.

JFresh_#8Nets
02-17-2011, 04:53 AM
Melo isn't changing anything, he isn't that great of a defender.

tdunk21
02-17-2011, 04:55 AM
is he a good defensive coach?

IBleedPurple
02-17-2011, 06:09 AM
Doubtful, this isnt the 80's. It takes solid half court defense. Even NY with Melo may not be as good as the Suns were a couple yrs ago. And just because it's the knicks, doesn't mean they're a lock for another superstar in a year or two. Lebron was supposed to be the building block & look how that worked out

Knicks21
02-17-2011, 06:31 AM
I say no, but it could get close.

PhillyFaninLA
02-17-2011, 09:51 AM
Not likely....only 28 coaches in NBA history have won a title. So its not likely.

http://www.nbauniverse.com/championships/coches_with_titles.htm

Spiderman 1nner
02-17-2011, 09:58 AM
The Knicks will miss out on Carmelo and will sign Chris Paul and Dwight Howard after next season and they will bring a championship back to NY.

Jetsguy
02-17-2011, 10:13 AM
Let me first say that I think more depends on personnel than people are letting on. I think any coach could win if given the right team. For example, Eric Spoelstra (Sp) I dont necesarrily look at as a championship coach (yet anyway) but he in all likelihood will get one at some point in the next 3 years because he has 2 of the top 3 players in the NBA on his team.

Having said all that with or without Melo I dont think so, you have to either have defensive minded players (Bron, Wade) or be able to coach them. Dantoni has neither (Stat, maybe Melo) and he certainly cant coach them up or at least wont. As others have said absent a defensive minded assistant which I feel at times Dantoni would be to stubborn to hire and let run things I just dont think they can. If we land Melo I think Dan has maybe a 2 year window to get us to atleast the ECF or he will be replaced.

justinnum1
02-17-2011, 10:25 AM
The Knicks will miss out on Carmelo and will sign Chris Paul and Dwight Howard after next season and they will bring a championship back to NY.

:rolleyes:

hdxstunts1
02-17-2011, 11:35 AM
Too much run not enough Defense...they need it!

tangent12
02-17-2011, 12:45 PM
There's just no way. His teams will always compete but they will not win any titles.

I see the Knicks as a good team who will be a playoff threat to contending teams but won't get anywhere.

Mile High Champ
02-17-2011, 12:48 PM
I don't think so. His coaching strategy preaches offense first and I am not sure he requires enough accountability from his players to take that next step.

Cubs Win
02-17-2011, 12:55 PM
He seems dissapointed by the poll results.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlWsnP623lg

I agree though, he won't win a title with his style of coaching.

Bornknick73
02-17-2011, 12:55 PM
I voted NO and Im a Knicks fan.

This debate rages in the Knicks forums forever. Nyers know the importance of a solid defensive team.

And although Mike was hired to bring in the big fish with his fun style we were spurned by the big fish because in the big fishes words "I cant commit to a style that doesnt emphasize defense, defense wins championships"

So Mikes style which would be thought of as a asset was a detriment in the end. As a NYer I cringe at playing this style of basketball. It works in the International game but it wont work on a championship level in the NBA game.

I would rather load up on offensive players and then hire Mike Brown. At least Brown can teach defense. The players will already know how to score.

The only way Dantonis system can work is if you pair STAT and Melo and then surround them with defensive, athletic, rebounding types who can run and jump all day. Throw in a 3 pt specialist and a high scoring bench option and they can win it all.

But a team of all offense and very little defensive talent cannot over come solid defensive teams. It might in the regular season but in a 7 game series defense will overcome offense.

While Mike Brown isnt a offensive genius he is a solid coach who got stuck with a 1 man show of a team. Im sure if he had another star in Cleveland his defense would have overcome the Lakers and Celtics. But we'll never know now.

Im a NYer and I dont like the style and I feel MDA wont last another year here.

NYers wont accept a team with no D. Bottomline!!

AntiG
02-17-2011, 01:16 PM
Not unless he were pull a Phil Jackson and take over a team with the best player in the entire sport alongside another potential/future HOFer.

D'Antoni doesn't coach defense, so unless his teams are able to put up 110 every game (hence why I say he needs HOFers), he's not winning anything.

ballinbalkman32
02-17-2011, 01:17 PM
with melo/stat/cp3/fields/mozgof, YES

Chronz
02-17-2011, 01:28 PM
The Suns werent bad defensively they were mediocre

And yes he could win a chip, add Dwight Howard to one of his teams and tell me they wouldnt be good defensively

D-Leethal
02-17-2011, 04:38 PM
I voted NO and Im a Knicks fan.

This debate rages in the Knicks forums forever. Nyers know the importance of a solid defensive team.

And although Mike was hired to bring in the big fish with his fun style we were spurned by the big fish because in the big fishes words "I cant commit to a style that doesnt emphasize defense, defense wins championships"

So Mikes style which would be thought of as a asset was a detriment in the end. As a NYer I cringe at playing this style of basketball. It works in the International game but it wont work on a championship level in the NBA game.

I would rather load up on offensive players and then hire Mike Brown. At least Brown can teach defense. The players will already know how to score.

The only way Dantonis system can work is if you pair STAT and Melo and then surround them with defensive, athletic, rebounding types who can run and jump all day. Throw in a 3 pt specialist and a high scoring bench option and they can win it all.

But a team of all offense and very little defensive talent cannot over come solid defensive teams. It might in the regular season but in a 7 game series defense will overcome offense.

While Mike Brown isnt a offensive genius he is a solid coach who got stuck with a 1 man show of a team. Im sure if he had another star in Cleveland his defense would have overcome the Lakers and Celtics. But we'll never know now.

Im a NYer and I dont like the style and I feel MDA wont last another year here.

NYers wont accept a team with no D. Bottomline!!

Lebron never said the reason he didn't come to NY was because Mike doesn't emphasize D.........He never commented about the system or the coaching staff after signing with MIA.......I believe you are referring to a post game interview when he was still a Cav when he said 'The Knicks don't play no defense'......which was true because we didn't, but he has also said that any team with him on it is going to play defense, and most players understand that the coach can't go out there and play defense for them, you gotta have the horses......

stlbest5in2013
02-17-2011, 05:03 PM
Everybody's excited about where Donny Walsh and D'Antoni have the Knicks going. I won't deny that they're much better. Let's not forget, though, that D'Antoni's style of play is all about excitement, while lacking some other necessary elements.
Defense is proven to win championships. D'Antoni teams are notoriously bad, defensively. Can it really be blamed on the teams, or is the coach the problem? There's no question that D'Antoni's teams will always be exciting to watch, but will a team coached under D'Antoni's style of play ever win a championship?


just my opinion, you should have added their ability, well the lack of ability to rebound as well.

Tony_Starks
02-17-2011, 05:09 PM
Never Ever Ever.

icej
02-17-2011, 10:10 PM
I voted NO and Im a Knicks fan.

This debate rages in the Knicks forums forever. Nyers know the importance of a solid defensive team.

And although Mike was hired to bring in the big fish with his fun style we were spurned by the big fish because in the big fishes words "I cant commit to a style that doesnt emphasize defense, defense wins championships"

So Mikes style which would be thought of as a asset was a detriment in the end. As a NYer I cringe at playing this style of basketball. It works in the International game but it wont work on a championship level in the NBA game.

I would rather load up on offensive players and then hire Mike Brown. At least Brown can teach defense. The players will already know how to score.

The only way Dantonis system can work is if you pair STAT and Melo and then surround them with defensive, athletic, rebounding types who can run and jump all day. Throw in a 3 pt specialist and a high scoring bench option and they can win it all.

But a team of all offense and very little defensive talent cannot over come solid defensive teams. It might in the regular season but in a 7 game series defense will overcome offense.

While Mike Brown isnt a offensive genius he is a solid coach who got stuck with a 1 man show of a team. Im sure if he had another star in Cleveland his defense would have overcome the Lakers and Celtics. But we'll never know now.

Im a NYer and I dont like the style and I feel MDA wont last another year here.

NYers wont accept a team with no D. Bottomline!!

You should be on the Knicks FO bro.

As I said before in different topics about the knicks, - if they are really serious in getting a ring and not just bringing and entertaining people to madison, the 1st in the to do list should be to replace D'antoni with a more balanced coach.

No NBA championship team has defended below top 10 in the NBA.
Mike D'Antoni could not do it with -A prime Rajah Bell and a Prime Matrix both excellent defenders along with prime K thomas who played together in his mediocre defensive team. Who knows where the sun could have ended if they had a more balanced oriented coach that year with Prime Nash and Amare along with Prime Barbosa, and Diaw at the bench! That TEAM is way better than this knicks roster even if NY retain all their players and just sign for Melo.

IFFF they do get Dwight Howard - He would not want to play under this system of D'antoni, he will be asked to be replaced by a more Defensive minded coach to be able to compliment D12's defensive mindedness.

Then they will definitely compete.

Kashmir13579
02-18-2011, 12:15 AM
its possible, but in order for it to happen a they need at least 3 all stars and one of them has to be either Paul or Howard. i voted no. i hope D'antoni gets the boot after this season.

Bornknick73
02-18-2011, 12:49 AM
There's just no way. His teams will always compete but they will not win any titles.

I see the Knicks as a good team who will be a playoff threat to contending teams but won't get anywhere.

Unless we have Melo and get Mike Brown, or Jerry Sloan, Id even give Jackson and Ewing a shot at it. I see Mark Jackson in a Doc Rivers mold.

Hell maybe even ride Phil for a year or 2. You know how he loves to slide into a spot that already has 2 stars.

Frrrrank!!!
02-18-2011, 12:53 AM
Nope. Not enough D.