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View Full Version : Players whom Box Scores Dont Do Them Justice??



CityofChaos
02-15-2011, 11:32 PM
List a player(s) who most people think suck or aren't that good, but in reality make a big impact defensively (or in other ways) and whom of which box scores do not do them justice.

My pick: Ekpe Udoh

The guy doesnt fill the stat sheet but he is a very good defensive player for the Warriors. Keith Smart is starting to give him more PT over Andris Biedrins due to the impact he has defensively when hes on the floor...the win over OKC is a good example.

Another guy that I comes to mind is Shane Battier.

Raph12
02-15-2011, 11:42 PM
Dwight Howard... People see 23-14-1-1-2 on 59FG% and think all he does is dunk, rebound and block shots... Watch some games people!

Faycem
02-15-2011, 11:49 PM
Blair from Spurs.

footballer2369
02-15-2011, 11:52 PM
Monta Ellis.

$ NyC $
02-15-2011, 11:52 PM
After todays game and being too lazy to think i'm gonna have to say Psycho T. Hansbrough from the Pacers. He played real hard today vs. the Heat give props to the Pacers for not giving up.

avrpatsfan
02-16-2011, 12:04 AM
Dwight Howard... People see 23-14-1-1-2 on 59FG% and think all he does is dunk, rebound and block shots... Watch some games people!
You're right. Bill Simmons made a great point in his book that Howard doesn't get nearly as many shot attempts as most all time great centers. If he averaged the 20 shots a game Shaq has averaged he would be legendary. If Howard wasn't so immature and not disciplined he'd be the best player in the NBA in my mind.

NJ Raven
02-16-2011, 12:07 AM
This thread screams Carl Landry.

Covert
02-16-2011, 12:08 AM
Amir Johnson

Raph12
02-16-2011, 12:11 AM
You're right. Bill Simmons made a great point in his book that Howard doesn't get nearly as many shot attempts as most all time great centers. If he averaged the 20 shots a game Shaq has averaged he would be legendary. If Howard wasn't so immature and not disciplined he'd be the best player in the NBA in my mind.

Agreed, but he also needs the freedom to demand the ball at any given time and receive it at that time. Did you know that Okafor avged more shots per game than Dwight has in any given season throughout his career?

Stan prefers to run with a "well-balanced attack" as he likes to put it, he's been talking about getting the ball to Dwight more, but it rarely lasts more than a week and they go back to the "chuck-a-shot" game... Stan is a good defensive coach (although having Dwight as your anchor helps), but they really need a new coach just for the offensive sets.

valade16
02-16-2011, 12:12 AM
You're right. Bill Simmons made a great point in his book that Howard doesn't get nearly as many shot attempts as most all time great centers. If he averaged the 20 shots a game Shaq has averaged he would be legendary. If Howard wasn't so immature and not disciplined he'd be the best player in the NBA in my mind.

IF he averaged those 20 shots they would have to be some back-down post shots in there, and his average would drop, big time.

There's a reason he's taking the few shots he's taking, he has no touch past what, 3 feet.

Go watch any tape of good Centers in the 90s play and then watch Howard and tell me he has post moves...

KmB728
02-16-2011, 12:14 AM
Perkins!

The Jokemaker
02-16-2011, 12:15 AM
Gotta go with Shane Battier. He plays great, hustles, and does the little things to help you win. Been a big fan of his since his Memphis days.

Frrrrank!!!
02-16-2011, 12:17 AM
Perkins, KG, Rondo.

Raph12
02-16-2011, 12:17 AM
IF he averaged those 20 shots they would have to be some back-down post shots in there, and his average would drop, big time.

There's a reason he's taking the few shots he's taking, he has no touch past what, 3 feet.

Go watch any tape of good Centers in the 90s play and then watch Howard and tell me he has post moves...

Ignorance at it's finest... You're the one who needs to watch some tape son.

tmacsc2
02-16-2011, 12:21 AM
T-mac!

Yanks All Day
02-16-2011, 12:23 AM
JJ Redick. He has a reputation as a pure shooter, but he is probably one of the 2 players on the Magic that actually knows how to make a decent pass down low. Doesn't rack up many assists, but makes the smart basketball plays that many others do not. His defense has improved tenfold since coming into the league and is one of the few players that gives Ray Allen fits when he guards them. Constant motor and always hustles. The stats sheet says nothing about his game except that he is a good 3 point shooter, but he is a much more well rounded player than that.

Baller1
02-16-2011, 12:24 AM
Kendrick Perkins
Nick Collison
Shane Battier
Matt Barnes
Mickael Pietrus

LayZbone
02-16-2011, 12:26 AM
Udonis Haslem

Look up blue-collar, hustle, heart, clutch, and hood in the dictionary. It's a UD photo album. The guy draws charges like a beast, can body up on people twice his size, rebounds extremely well, and hits the midrange J with arc n' ease. Oh, and he'll **** you up if you mess with his brother D-Wade.

You guys can laugh if you want, but Haslem is a fan favorite down here. Home grown product. Most Heat fans will tell you about their man-crush on this guy. He personifies what the Heat is all about.

mttwlsn16
02-16-2011, 12:26 AM
lately, baron davis

mttwlsn16
02-16-2011, 12:28 AM
Udonis Haslem

haslem is WAYY underrated. guy is a real real real good player that goes completely unknown

BkOriginalOne
02-16-2011, 12:38 AM
Battier
Rondo - Yes, even Rondo
Afflalo

Hawkeye15
02-16-2011, 12:46 AM
Shaq in his prime. Most people don't understand what kind of effect he really had on the floor for the opposing team. They were consumed by him, to the extent others were able to capitalize

SeoulBeatz
02-16-2011, 12:57 AM
Iguodala's scoring numbers are down, but I think he's elevated himself to being the best perimeter defender in the NBA.

I don't think anyone deflects more passes or shut's down their opponent's as much as Iggy does, you really do have to see it to appreciate it.

JermanJaysFan
02-16-2011, 01:36 AM
IF he averaged those 20 shots they would have to be some back-down post shots in there, and his average would drop, big time.

There's a reason he's taking the few shots he's taking, he has no touch past what, 3 feet.

Go watch any tape of good Centers in the 90s play and then watch Howard and tell me he has post moves...

This comment looks about...I dunno...15 months late.

DerekRE_3
02-16-2011, 01:55 AM
Kendrick Perkins
Nick Collison
Shane Battier
Matt Barnes
Mickael Pietrus

Nick Collison is a great example. I went to the Kings-Thunder game last weekend, and his pick and roll defense was excellent. I don't watch him enough to know if he consistently does that, but it stuck out to me that game.

D1JM
02-16-2011, 02:18 AM
scalabrine. hands down the best high five hands in the game during a timeout.

SugeKnight
02-16-2011, 02:26 AM
I like the Udoh example

TrueFan420
02-16-2011, 02:32 AM
JJ Redick. He has a reputation as a pure shooter, but he is probably one of the 2 players on the Magic that actually knows how to make a decent pass down low. Doesn't rack up many assists, but makes the smart basketball plays that many others do not. His defense has improved tenfold since coming into the league and is one of the few players that gives Ray Allen fits when he guards them. Constant motor and always hustles. The stats sheet says nothing about his game except that he is a good 3 point shooter, but he is a much more well rounded player than that.

this... when jj was coming into the league many thought he wouldnt do anything but hit the open 3. he has become so much more than just a shooter. great bball iq. good passer. improved d.

Gambeezy
02-16-2011, 02:36 AM
Udonis Haslem

Look up blue-collar, hustle, heart, clutch, and hood in the dictionary. It's a UD photo album. The guy draws charges like a beast, can body up on people twice his size, rebounds extremely well, and hits the midrange J with arc n' ease. Oh, and he'll **** you up if you mess with his brother D-Wade.

You guys can laugh if you want, but Haslem is a fan favorite down here. Home grown product. Most Heat fans will tell you about their man-crush on this guy. He personifies what the Heat is all about.

Couldn't have said it better. I appreciate the pay cut he took for the betterment of the team, but I honestly wish we could pay him what he deserves. Guy earns every penny.

sunsfan88
02-16-2011, 02:47 AM
Iguodala's scoring numbers are down, but I think he's elevated himself to being the best perimeter defender in the NBA.

I don't think anyone deflects more passes or shut's down their opponent's as much as Iggy does, you really do have to see it to appreciate it.

I got two words for ya; Grant Hill.

JoeyBoy718
02-16-2011, 02:56 AM
It seems like people are just naming players on their favorite teams.

I'll have to go with two guys who don't put up nearly the numbers they used to but are still the best players on their teams (which happen to be the best teams) and have just as much impact as they used to: Garnett and Duncan.

MU and UW Fan
02-16-2011, 03:02 AM
Carl Landry

abe_froman
02-16-2011, 03:05 AM
joakim noah

millerandco
02-16-2011, 03:08 AM
how are people honestly writing howard???

DRose7
02-16-2011, 03:19 AM
scalabrine. hands down the best high five hands in the game during a timeout.

I disagree, I think Luke Walton is the best timeout high fiver of alltime

Bulls_fan90
02-16-2011, 03:20 AM
Derrick Rose.

tredigs
02-16-2011, 03:26 AM
It seems like people are just naming players on their favorite teams.

I'll have to go with two guys who don't put up nearly the numbers they used to but are still the best players on their teams (which happen to be the best teams) and have just as much impact as they used to: Garnett and Duncan.

100% agree here - especially Garnett. Despite his age and lesser numbers than a few years back due to reduced minutes/touches (and a slight decline), he's been fantastic, is their defensive anchor, and that team simply can't win a title without him - which is saying a lot, because they are ****ing stacked.

A near identical comment can be made about Duncan. Both of these guys are going to be legends of the game for a reason, and they are not as far off of their prime as some may think/hope.

Albrecht Duerer
02-16-2011, 03:31 AM
Scola and Pietrus immediately come to mind.

KINGBAIZE
02-16-2011, 03:38 AM
D. ROSE!

He still manages to avg 8.5 assist per game with a starting SG who avg's 3ppg in K. Bogans.(Imagine what he could do with a shooter beside him!

He also is forced to take more constant clutch shots, than anybody I can think of other than K. Durant.

And he gets less whistles than any other star I've seen....

D. Rose

sf-fanatic
02-16-2011, 03:39 AM
michael olawakandi seems to be the obvious choice here

Bat-Man
02-16-2011, 03:41 AM
Thabo Sefolosha

Raph12
02-16-2011, 03:42 AM
100% agree here - especially Garnett. Despite his age and lesser numbers than a few years back due to reduced minutes/touches (and a slight decline), he's been fantastic, is their defensive anchor, and that team simply can't win a title without him - which is saying a lot, because they are ****ing stacked.

A near identical comment can be made about Duncan. Both of these guys are going to be legends of the game for a reason, and they are not as far off of their prime as some may think/hope.

LMFAO!!! So funny, but so true lol...

Steelers23_06
02-16-2011, 04:00 AM
varejao. its funny bc a year ago everyone would have been saying him. but at the end of the day who could really say that they wouldnt want varejao on their favorite team?

Gambeezy
02-16-2011, 04:03 AM
It seems like people are just naming players on their favorite teams.

I'll have to go with two guys who don't put up nearly the numbers they used to but are still the best players on their teams (which happen to be the best teams) and have just as much impact as they used to: Garnett and Duncan.

Makes sense since we watch our respective teams the most. Most teams have at least one player who comes in with intangibles that don't get reflected in the box score.

KG isn't the best player on his team. But I agree, without him the Celtics would have a difficult time keeping a #1 Seed in the East.

pastrecedes
02-16-2011, 04:04 AM
shane battier was the first person that came to mind when i read the title of this thread

Kashmir13579
02-16-2011, 04:05 AM
Rondo, Fields, Tony Parker

JoeyBoy718
02-16-2011, 04:15 AM
Most teams have at least one player who comes in with intangibles that don't get reflected in the box score.

LeBron has intangibles that don't show up on the box score -- which is how he carried a horrible Cavs team to glory -- but he still put up a ridiculous box score. This thread was intended (I'm assuming) to give credit to guys either under the radar (Landry, Battier, etc) or supposedly over the hill (Garnett, Duncan, etc), and people are still saying names like Derrick Rose and Dwight Howard.

Thread Title: "Players whom Box Scores Dont Do Them Justice??" Derrick Rose 27 pts 8.5 ast, Dwight Howard 23 pts 13 rbs. Go figure.

JoeyBoy718
02-16-2011, 04:21 AM
Perfect example: Someone gave Reddick credit for being a great passer, yet his assist numbers may not make that evident for someone who doesn't watch him play regularly. On the other hand, people are saying Rajon Rondo, when his numbers excel in his strong categories (assists, rebounds, steals), hence, his box score sufficiently does him justice.

Gambeezy
02-16-2011, 04:58 AM
LeBron has intangibles that don't show up on the box score -- which is how he carried a horrible Cavs team to glory -- but he still put up a ridiculous box score. This thread was intended (I'm assuming) to give credit to guys either under the radar (Landry, Battier, etc) or supposedly over the hill (Garnett, Duncan, etc), and people are still saying names like Derrick Rose and Dwight Howard.

Thread Title: "Players whom Box Scores Dont Do Them Justice??" Derrick Rose 27 pts 8.5 ast, Dwight Howard 23 pts 13 rbs. Go figure.

Yea, as if those numbers don't do Rose or Dwight justice, like they're capable of MUCH higher figures. I can't believe a thread was created to spotlight the lesser known humble, hard-working players in the league, and you guys are sitting here name-dropping MVP candidates. :facepalm:

JJ Redick and Noah were appropriate. Tony Allen may be another one.

Wrigheyes4MVP
02-16-2011, 05:39 AM
Tyson Chandler is the definition of this thread

Gilly1254
02-16-2011, 06:05 AM
tyson chandler is the definition of this thread

+1

Swashcuff
02-16-2011, 06:30 AM
IF he averaged those 20 shots they would have to be some back-down post shots in there, and his average would drop, big time.

There's a reason he's taking the few shots he's taking, he has no touch past what, 3 feet.

Go watch any tape of good Centers in the 90s play and then watch Howard and tell me he has post moves...

You need to watch some magic games dude, you really do.

Swashcuff
02-16-2011, 06:32 AM
IF he averaged those 20 shots they would have to be some back-down post shots in there, and his average would drop, big time.

There's a reason he's taking the few shots he's taking, he has no touch past what, 3 feet.

Go watch any tape of good Centers in the 90s play and then watch Howard and tell me he has post moves...

You need to watch some magic games dude, you really do.

TheDiggler
02-16-2011, 07:37 AM
Haslem, Battier, Barnes, Derek Fisher, Ben Wallace, Sefolosha, Posey, Lou Williams, Omri Casspi, Earl Clark and some more. Some of them are glue-guys like Battier or Haslem (f.e.) some don't play a role on offense like Sefolosha (f.e.) and the others IMO given the time and/or an other team, their stats would (could) be better then they are right now and would mature and benefit into something more legit (Clark, Casspi f.e.) ...

I forgot a lot to mention, I know, doesn't mean I don't give credit ...

Sportfan
02-16-2011, 07:43 AM
How about the opposite, when the box scores make you loook better than you actually are? Andray Blatche

Minimal
02-16-2011, 07:48 AM
Perkins, Haslem, Rondo.

Cano4prez
02-16-2011, 07:50 AM
Monta Ellis

hans dolo
02-16-2011, 07:52 AM
ron artest. he changes games without any stats on a boxscore

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-16-2011, 09:32 AM
Monta Ellis

BALLER R
02-16-2011, 09:41 AM
ED DAVIS if you watch raptor games you will know this

chitown815
02-16-2011, 09:53 AM
Brian scalabrine the boxscore shows 1-4 and 3 turnovers in a blowout game but that basket was ginger magic

PhillyFaninLA
02-16-2011, 09:53 AM
Steve Blake....I've seen make quite a few big plays that won't appear on sportscenter for the Lakers this year

I think a lot of the Sixers roster is under valued and not statistically great. Young, Turner, and Meeks are all much better then the box score.

AntiG
02-16-2011, 10:03 AM
Perkins, KG, Rondo.

This.

And Pierce and Allen both don't get enough respect for their defense. They have both developed and been all-NBA defense quality defenders since 2007. Its truly impressive how good they are now that they focus on that part of their games.

HakeemTheDream
02-16-2011, 10:08 AM
Just about every single defensive player in the league with bad to average offense.

/thread

p.s. Tony Allen is the most underrated perimeter defender in the league.

PhillyFaninLA
02-16-2011, 10:10 AM
This.

And Pierce and Allen both don't get enough respect for their defense. They have both developed and been all-NBA defense quality defenders since 2007. Its truly impressive how good they are now that they focus on that part of their games.


I get what your saying but I don't think future first ballot HOF'ers like Pierce, Allen, or KG fit into this category. I don't think Rondo qualifies because his stats are often extremely impressive. I don't think MVP candidates and all stars qualify either because people know how good they are and there stats are impressive. This topic is about guys that the box score doesn't show who they really are.

IMO special players and really good players are maybe underrated or under appreciated but with a lot of the guys mentioned in this topic the box scores show how great they are.

FadeAwayLikeMJ
02-16-2011, 10:15 AM
Perkins!

him and Battier came to mind instantly

YoungOne
02-16-2011, 10:16 AM
Perkins!

damn right!

YoungOne
02-16-2011, 10:22 AM
Battier
Rondo - Yes, even Rondo
Afflalo

afflalo is a good one

alencp3
02-16-2011, 10:23 AM
Deandre Jordan

Azzacadabra
02-16-2011, 10:26 AM
Emeka Okafor

Hustlenomics
02-16-2011, 10:47 AM
Iguodala's scoring numbers are down, but I think he's elevated himself to being the best perimeter defender in the NBA.

I don't think anyone deflects more passes or shut's down their opponent's as much as Iggy does, you really do have to see it to appreciate it.

so true

skoobiesnax69
02-16-2011, 10:58 AM
turiaf, fields
kg, bynum, t.prince, ben wallace 7 years ago

Mile High Champ
02-16-2011, 11:01 AM
Shane Battier and Tim Duncan

Dee_Edge
02-16-2011, 11:13 AM
That's easy...Chuck Hayes!

magichatnumber9
02-16-2011, 11:16 AM
Rajon Rondo

MrfadeawayJB
02-16-2011, 12:34 PM
Tony Allen!!!

sep11ie
02-16-2011, 12:46 PM
Monta Ellis

CostanzaNumba0
02-16-2011, 01:03 PM
Landry Fields and Glen Davis,, I can't believe Davis hasn't been mentioned he can play 3 positions, has a nice midrange game and although undersized can muscle up with anyone in the league,, hes a gamechanger for that team

DaBUU
02-16-2011, 01:10 PM
Omer Asik

sep11ie
02-16-2011, 01:11 PM
Chuck Hayes.

thekmp211
02-16-2011, 01:19 PM
reddick is a great pick. he is a great all-around player, i'd like to see him get consistent minutes on that team some day. also never ever thought i'd be saying i want jj reddick to get minutes. yikes.

John Walls Era
02-16-2011, 02:16 PM
Brad Miller. Smart and tough

JLynn943
02-16-2011, 03:23 PM
Brad Miller. Smart and tough

Good choice. Doesn't play much anymore, but he's also an excellent passer. One of the best passing centers currently in the NBA imo.

Gators123
02-16-2011, 03:24 PM
Ben Wallace.

MiamiWadeCounty
02-16-2011, 07:37 PM
Joel Anthony. Plays solid D, rebounds, sets screens, and alter shots/get blocks. Sometimes he doesn't get a lot of stats (or any see the triple-zero machine) but he hustles and helps a team win.

TylerSL
02-16-2011, 07:48 PM
Nick Collison
Shane Battier
Udonis Haslem
Grant Hill
Carl Landry
Joel Anthony

those are some

FLMeth06
02-16-2011, 11:14 PM
Joel Anthony. Plays solid D, rebounds, sets screens, and alter shots/get blocks. Sometimes he doesn't get a lot of stats (or any see the triple-zero machine) but he hustles and helps a team win.

Agreed. Him and Haslem.

bulldog312
02-17-2011, 12:03 AM
Rajon Rondo

:laugh:

We are talking about the Rondo that leads the league in assists just because he can plays with 3 future hall of famers and can hit guys coming off of screens (he doesn't actually create for players as much as guys like Williams, Paul, and Rose do)? The guy whose defense looks great in the box score because he gets lots of steals yet he isn't that good at actually guarding people?

Rondo is the exact opposite of this question. He is so overrated because of the boxscore. If you want to chose someone on the Celtics go with someone like Perkins.

joeshmoe
02-17-2011, 01:32 AM
:laugh:

We are talking about the Rondo that leads the league in assists just because he can plays with 3 future hall of famers and can hit guys coming off of screens (he doesn't actually create for players as much as guys like Williams, Paul, and Rose do)? The guy whose defense looks great in the box score because he gets lots of steals yet he isn't that good at actually guarding people?

Rondo is the exact opposite of this question. He is so overrated because of the boxscore. If you want to chose someone on the Celtics go with someone like Perkins.

Someone please take away his posting privileges. :facepalm:

I can understand the KG argument, but he still puts up great rebound numbers, although the points have gone down. I think Brad Miller was a great choice!

Hustlenomics
02-17-2011, 01:35 AM
:laugh:

We are talking about the Rondo that leads the league in assists just because he can plays with 3 future hall of famers and can hit guys coming off of screens (he doesn't actually create for players as much as guys like Williams, Paul, and Rose do)? The guy whose defense looks great in the box score because he gets lots of steals yet he isn't that good at actually guarding people?

Rondo is the exact opposite of this question. He is so overrated because of the boxscore. If you want to chose someone on the Celtics go with someone like Perkins.

i knew you were trolling after you said 'Rose do' you just have to be

JayW_1023
02-17-2011, 04:20 AM
This year is Tim Duncan. He is not getting the stats, but his overal impact on the Spurs is still huge, especially on D.

raidersrock99
02-17-2011, 04:29 AM
dalembert lol. he impacts other parts of the game good just sucks at offense

TRF929
02-17-2011, 04:41 AM
This year is Tim Duncan. He is not getting the stats, but his overal impact on the Spurs is still huge, especially on D.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

IBleedPurple
02-17-2011, 06:03 AM
Arron Afflalo

Chronz
02-17-2011, 01:31 PM
Since we're all just naming our favorite players, Shaq, Tmac, Pierce, Yao (even now his presence on the bench inspires players)