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View Full Version : The Official 2010-2011: Race to the MVP Discussion Thread Part IV -Thru Allstar Break



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JordansBulls
02-15-2011, 06:38 PM
Part I (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=556860)

Part II (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=573546)

Part III (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=583265)

kjoke
02-15-2011, 06:46 PM
Lebron is the MVP and there is no doubt about it.

SteBO
02-15-2011, 06:47 PM
Lebron is the MVP and there is no doubt about it.
Right now. this.

Teeboy1487
02-15-2011, 06:57 PM
Dwight Howard was my pick going into the season. Now, he is still my pick with Derrick Rose following closely by.

Jonathan2323
02-15-2011, 06:59 PM
LeBron

Rose/Howard

Cubs Win
02-15-2011, 07:00 PM
I'll put this in here for people who might have missed it at the end of the last MVP thread: http://espn.go.com/nba/awards

ESPN's 2/15 MVP Top 4
LeBron
Rose
Dirk
Howard

Furymaker
02-15-2011, 07:02 PM
Rose
Dwight
Dirk
Lebron
CP3
no order , but my #1 is Rose :clap:

ManRam
02-15-2011, 07:07 PM
I'm voting Dwight because I'm exercising my right to be a homer, something rare...especially for me supporting Dwight. I voted Bron the last time...

No player means more to his team both on offense, and especially on defense. I think the fact that the Magic have regressed whereas the Bulls, Mavs and Heat (as well as the Cavs plummet) hurts him, but if he can get Orlando to the 3 seed, I think he deserves it.

In all honesty, I can't differentiate Dirk, Dwight, Rose and LeBron right now. All 4 are all so deserving and all for different reasons. This award will be won in the last month...not because of anything that's already happened.

Bruno
02-15-2011, 07:13 PM
I'm voting Dwight because I'm exercising my right to be a homer, something rare...especially for me supporting Dwight. I voted Bron the last time...

No player means more to his team both on offense, and especially on defense. I think the fact that the Magic have regressed whereas the Bulls, Mavs and Heat (as well as the Cavs plummet) hurts him, but if he can get Orlando to the 3 seed, I think he deserves it.


Agreed. Nobody impacts their team on both sides of the ball as much Howard does, IMO. He man-handled the Lakers front-line.

He's posting the highest PER of his career, good enough for 2nd in the league, and he's 4th in WS. He has the stats, and his impact is obvious.

I'd vote Howard if the season ended today. He's averaged 25/15 on 60% since the trades, if I'm not mistaken.

abe_froman
02-15-2011, 07:17 PM
Agreed. Nobody impacts their team on both sides of the ball as much Howard does, IMO. He man-handled the Lakers front-line.

He's posting the highest PER of his career, good enough for 2nd in the league, and he's 4th in WS. He has the stats, and his impact is obvious.

I'd vote Howard if the season ended today. He's averaged 25/15 on 60% since the trades, if I'm not mistaken.

thats part by design.it was the game plan with us anyways,single howard,make him beat you/let him get his nice stats and spend your energy on shutting out the rest of the team.

TO to the CHI
02-15-2011, 07:37 PM
I'm voting Dwight because I'm exercising my right to be a homer, something rare...especially for me supporting Dwight. I voted Bron the last time...

No player means more to his team both on offense, and especially on defense. I think the fact that the Magic have regressed whereas the Bulls, Mavs and Heat (as well as the Cavs plummet) hurts him, but if he can get Orlando to the 3 seed, I think he deserves it.

In all honesty, I can't differentiate Dirk, Dwight, Rose and LeBron right now. All 4 are all so deserving and all for different reasons. This award will be won in the last month...not because of anything that's already happened.

I would also give him bonus points for the great way he has handled the team turnover this year. Injuries happen and offseason moves allow for time in the summer and training camp, but the Magic turned over their whole roster mid-season and Dwight never missed a beat (though the fact that the team has turned definitely hurts him).

Bottom line for me is that it is still Rose, followed an inch later by LeBron (who in my book falls behind based on Wade's presence), and then Dwight, CP3, and no one else is close as of now.

D Roses Bulls
02-15-2011, 07:51 PM
Lebron is the MVP and there is no doubt about it.


Right now. this.

keep dreaming guys. if rose played with wade, i'll bet that team would be in first place :)

justinnum1
02-15-2011, 07:56 PM
Lebron is the MVP and there is no doubt about it.

Yep.

justinnum1
02-15-2011, 07:56 PM
keep dreaming guys. if rose played with wade, i'll bet that team would be in first place :)

Now who is dreaming?

D Roses Bulls
02-15-2011, 07:59 PM
Now who is dreaming?

yeah, dreaming about rose and wade playing together, but its not dreaming if they played together that the team would be in first place especially if wade was in chicago.

ManRam
02-15-2011, 08:04 PM
keep dreaming guys. if rose played with wade, i'll bet that team would be in first place :)

Not to be immature, but this warrants a...

:laugh:

EDIT: Actually, now that you clarified, you might be right. But originally you were insinuating that Rose is better than LeBron, which just is preposterous. I do think the Bulls with Wade would be better than the Heat as is...but that's more a testament to that team as a whole than it is Rose. The Heat's lack of depth and size is a problem...where as the Bulls have a tremendous team sans the SG position.

D Roses Bulls
02-15-2011, 08:34 PM
Not to be immature, but this warrants a...

:laugh:

EDIT: Actually, now that you clarified, you might be right. But originally you were insinuating that Rose is better than LeBron, which just is preposterous. I do think the Bulls with Wade would be better than the Heat as is...but that's more a testament to that team as a whole than it is Rose. The Heat's lack of depth and size is a problem...where as the Bulls have a tremendous team sans the SG position.

your kidding right? the bulls are 2 games behind the heat with keith bogans starting and you dont think they would be better then the heat if wade was a bull? :rolleyes: and i dont see whats so funny cause everything i said was true. if wade was a bull they would be better then the heat are with wade right now. wrong again manram

Raph12
02-15-2011, 08:46 PM
Wouldn't it be smarter to do this after the AS break?...

Lebron is currently the MVP, with Dwight as the runner-up...

Cubs Win
02-15-2011, 08:55 PM
Wouldn't it be smarter to do this after the AS break?...

Lebron is currently the MVP, with Dwight as the runner-up...

Well the other poll ended the 7th, so it doesn't hurt to do one before with another as a possibility after anyway...

Hustlenomics
02-15-2011, 08:59 PM
might as well put Rondo on if you gonna have Westbrook

Cubs Win
02-15-2011, 09:01 PM
might as well put Rondo on if you gonna have Westbrook

I think Westbrook should be lower, in the 7-9 spots perhaps, but Rondo? No.

Lakersfan2483
02-15-2011, 09:12 PM
Derrick Rose and Dwight Howard are the leading candidates so far.

Khalifa21
02-15-2011, 09:32 PM
1. LeBron










2. Howard
3. Rose

northsider
02-15-2011, 09:58 PM
1. LeBron










2. Howard
3. Rose


Did your space bar get stuck?

D Roses Bulls
02-15-2011, 10:12 PM
I'm amazed at how dumb some people are. like they just said, this is the 17th game wade has had over 30 points this season and lebron is the mvp? lebron hasnt even been carrying the heat.

1.rose
2.howard

Khalifa21
02-15-2011, 10:20 PM
Did your space bar get stuck?

Just emphasizing how much more deserving Bron is.. Don't get your panties in a twist.

Khalifa21
02-15-2011, 10:21 PM
I'm amazed at how dumb some people are. like they just said, this is the 17th game wade has had over 30 points this season and lebron is the mvp? lebron hasnt even been carrying the heat.

1.rose
2.howard

You can't start by saying that and then follow it up with an equally dumb statement....

northsider
02-15-2011, 10:24 PM
Just emphasizing how much more deserving Bron is.. Don't get your panties in a twist.

Oh no I could care less I don't have Rose as number 1 either if that's what you mean. I am just not that over the top I think right now it is a close race between a few guys.

kjoke
02-15-2011, 10:25 PM
pippen didnt stop jordan winning 4 mvps....

that argument cant work.

NYtilIdie
02-15-2011, 10:43 PM
yeah, dreaming about rose and wade playing together, but its not dreaming if they played together that the team would be in first place especially if wade was in chicago.

Since you used "if" then that means you're dreaming and that theory holds no ground since its just some fantasy you believe in your head.

But right now I feel Howard deserves the MVP. This may be the only chance he gets in his career. He's having a phenomenal year both offensively and defensively. I thought he would struggle against the Lakers front court, but with his improved post game, he made easy work of them, although they did get him in foul trouble early on and Bynum was grabbing rebounds with ease.

So if its not Lebron, its definitely Howard.

ManRam
02-15-2011, 10:45 PM
your kidding right? the bulls are 2 games behind the heat with keith bogans starting and you dont think they would be better then the heat if wade was a bull? :rolleyes: and i dont see whats so funny cause everything i said was true. if wade was a bull they would be better then the heat are with wade right now. wrong again manram

Can you read? I said the Bulls with Wade are better than the Heat as is.

I edited that post. At first you made it sound like Rose+Wade is better than Wade+LeBron, then in the second post you clarified, and I agreed.

footballer2369
02-15-2011, 10:47 PM
Can you read? I said the Bulls with Wade are better than the Heat as is.

I edited that post. At first you made it sound like Rose+Wade is better than Wade+LeBron, then in the second post you clarified, and I agreed.

The more important issue here is that you have gone to the darkside...

The Jokemaker
02-15-2011, 10:47 PM
It's not Lebron. When you have a guy who can drop 41 points in a game as your teammate and win games then you aren't the MVP. Miami would still be a good team without Lebron. He's having a good season yeah but I think Howard is much more integral to the Magic'c success than lebron is to Miamis's. Dwight can absolute dominate and I think he should be MVP. Him, Durant, or Rose. Not Lebron.

NYtilIdie
02-15-2011, 10:49 PM
I'm amazed at how dumb some people are. like they just said, this is the 17th game wade has had over 30 points this season and lebron is the mvp? lebron hasnt even been carrying the heat.

1.rose
2.howard

Do you watch basketball outside of Chicago? Because judging from this statement, its clear you don't.

Lebron is the leader of the Heat and no matter what people say, the Heat is clearly Lebron's team, not Wade's. Wade has taken a backseat to Lebron, not the other way around and Lebron is looking like himself now, not the player he was in the beginning of the year. The Heat's success so far is because of Lebron.

D Roses Bulls
02-15-2011, 10:51 PM
Not to be immature, but this warrants a...

:laugh:

EDIT: Actually, now that you clarified, you might be right. But originally you were insinuating that Rose is better than LeBron, which just is preposterous. I do think the Bulls with Wade would be better than the Heat as is...but that's more a testament to that team as a whole than it is Rose. The Heat's lack of depth and size is a problem...where as the Bulls have a tremendous team sans the SG position.

dont tell me i cant read cause i didnt catch the edit, people make mistakes

D Roses Bulls
02-15-2011, 10:52 PM
Do you watch basketball outside of Chicago? Because judging from this statement, its clear you don't.

Lebron is the leader of the Heat and no matter what people say, the Heat is clearly Lebron's team, not Wade's. Wade has taken a backseat to Lebron, not the other way around and Lebron is looking the himself now, not the player he was in the beginning of the year. The Heat's success so far is because of Lebron.

17th game wade has had over 30 points but yeah lebron still carries the team by himself :rolleyes: im not saying wade does it by himself, but lebron isnt doing it alone either. :facepalm: god some people amaze me

footballer2369
02-15-2011, 10:55 PM
Lebron carries the load every game. They have no bench. Lebron accounts for about 1/3 of his team's production and is the anchor defensively. Wade is almost as good, but keep in mind he's the 2nd best player in the league. That doesn't matter though, and it certainly doesn't make Lebron less valuable.

NYtilIdie
02-15-2011, 11:06 PM
17th game wade has had over 30 points but yeah lebron still carries the team by himself :rolleyes: im not saying wade does it by himself, but lebron isnt doing it alone either. :facepalm: god some people amaze me

I never said Lebron carries the team by himself, I said he is the reason for the Heat's success so far due to his ability to make his teammates better. You claimed he hasn't been carrying the Heat because Wade has more 30 pt. games, which means your just looking at the boxscores.

Lebron's playmaking abilities is the biggest factor for the Heat's success. Wade is great, but he shines in iso's which doesn't make team-mates better and his playmaking abilities are no where near Lebron's.

Also its expected for Wade to have more 30 pt. games when he takes 20+ shots.

D Roses Bulls
02-15-2011, 11:09 PM
I never said Lebron carries the team by himself, I said he is the reason for the Heat's success so far due to his ability to make his teammates better. You claimed he hasn't been carrying the Heat because Wade has more 30 pt. games, which means your just looking at the boxscores.

Lebron's playmaking abilities is the biggest factor for the Heat's success. Wade is great, but he shines in iso's which doesn't make team-mates better and his playmaking abilities are no where near Lebron's.

Also its expected for Wade to have more 30 pt. games when he takes 20+ shots.

wade carries a lot of the load of why the heat are successful and has for the last couple years. lebron is not carrying his team which means lebron is not mvp.

footballer2369
02-15-2011, 11:10 PM
I never said Lebron carries the team by himself, I said he is the reason for the Heat's success so far due to his ability to make his teammates better. You claimed he hasn't been carrying the Heat because Wade has more 30 pt. games, which means your just looking at the boxscores.

Lebron's playmaking abilities is the biggest factor for the Heat's success. Wade is great, but he shines in iso's which doesn't make team-mates better and his playmaking abilities are no where near Lebron's.

Also its expected for Wade to have more 30 pt. games when he takes 20+ shots.

A lot of this Wade stuff is plain slanderous, but the greater point that Lebron is the MVP is true. He is the engine that makes us run and the anchor that holds it down on D.

ManRam
02-15-2011, 11:11 PM
Ask Spo who does the most for that team. He's flat out admitted that LeBron literally does everything. He handles the ball late in games. The offense runs through him when the game is on the line. He plays 3 positions on offense and can guard 4 positions on defense. One night he might be expected to be the scorer, the next night he might be expected to be the PG, the next night he might be expected to be neither and just shut down the opposing team's best player (which he'll do) and make some small plays here and there. He does everything. For a team that lacks depth and good role players, he basically provides those two things by himself because of his abilities.

NYtilIdie
02-15-2011, 11:21 PM
wade carries a lot of the load of why the heat are successful and has for the last couple years. lebron is not carrying his team which means lebron is not mvp.

What exactly has Wade's team accomplished the last few years besides being a middle-of-the-pack team that gets bounced in the 1st round?

While Lebron's team was in the ECF's 2 years in a row while carrying them to having the best record 2 years in a row.

Wade is having success because of Lebron's playmaking ability! Wade is having a great year because Lebron's playmaking makes it easier for Wade to score, Wade was great in the past, but scoring has never been as easy for him as it is this year. Lebron and Bosh were the reason the game against the Heat and C's last sunday was so close, Wade struggled all game (and has struggled against the C's all season by only averaging 10 PPG against them) and Lebron was able to carry him to a potential game tying shot. Lebron is clearly better of the two which is why Spo trusts Lebron more with the ball late in games then Wade.

Also im not slandering Wade, he's great but its a known he shines in iso's and hasn't been known for making his team-mates better. Lebron made Mo Williams an all-star for christ sakes.

The Jokemaker
02-15-2011, 11:24 PM
pippen didnt stop jordan winning 4 mvps....

that argument cant work.

Wade is a better player than Pippen at this point. He can legitimately be the number one option on a team. Heck, he won a ring a few years ago as the main guy with Shaq there. So yeah, that argument can work.

The Jokemaker
02-15-2011, 11:28 PM
What exactly has Wade's team accomplished the last few years besides being a middle-of-the-pack team that gets bounced in the 1st round?

While Lebron's team was in the ECF's 2 years in a row while carrying them to having the best record 2 years in a row.

.

This isn't about past seasons, this is about this season. And Lebron hasn't made Wade better, Wade was still a superstar. It's a tag team show out there. Wade and Lebron the duo could be MVP but not just Lebron. He isn't the sole reason why the Heat are playing well this season. Howard is most deserving of MVP closely followed by Durant and Rose.

Oh and Lebron is 3rd in scoring this season, Wade is 6th. Kobe 4th, Pau 27th. Durant 1st, Westbrook 14th. Howard 12th, Jrich 47th. Rose 8th, Deng 34th.

footballer2369
02-15-2011, 11:32 PM
What exactly has Wade's team accomplished the last few years besides being a middle-of-the-pack team that gets bounced in the 1st round?

While Lebron's team was in the ECF's 2 years in a row while carrying them to having the best record 2 years in a row.

Wade is having success because of Lebron's playmaking ability! Wade is having a great year because Lebron's playmaking makes it easier for Wade to score, Wade was great in the past, but scoring has never been as easy for him as it is this year. Lebron and Bosh were the reason the game against the Heat and C's last sunday was so close, Wade struggled all game (and has struggled against the C's all season by only averaging 10 PPG against them) and Lebron was able to carry him to a potential game tying shot. Lebron is clearly better of the two which is why Spo trusts Lebron more with the ball late in games then Wade.

Also im not slandering Wade, he's great but its a known he shines in iso's and hasn't been known for making his team-mates better. Lebron made Mo Williams an all-star for christ sakes.

We're on the same side but you're way off here.

First of all, Wade has had several seasons with 40+% assist percentages. He's playing a different role now, but don't short his playmaking ability.

Wade is having a down year by his standards, so we can stop pretending Lebron's playmaking is affecting him. Wade gets most of his on his own off of high picks.

I mean, Dwyane Wade is the second best player in the world, can you stop talking about the guy like he's Monta Ellis?

Again, we're on the same side, but I don't agree with a lot of the things you're saying. They're both great, but Lebron is better, and is THE most valuable player in the league, no doubt in my mind. On separate teams, Wade might have been the #2 candidate to Lebron. But again, I don't think having a great teammate makes Lebron any less valuable.

Kenny
02-15-2011, 11:33 PM
Wade is a better player than Pippen at this point. He can legitimately be the number one option on a team. Heck, he won a ring a few years ago as the main guy with Shaq there. So yeah, that argument can work.

The Bulls won 55 games without Jordan and Pippen was fantastic that year.

footballer2369
02-15-2011, 11:34 PM
This isn't about past seasons, this is about this season. And Lebron hasn't made Wade better, Wade was still a superstar. It's a tag team show out there. Wade and Lebron the duo could be MVP but not just Lebron. He isn't the sole reason why the Heat are playing well this season. Howard is most deserving of MVP closely followed by Durant and Rose.

Oh and Lebron is 3rd in scoring this season, Wade is 6th. Kobe 4th, Pau 27th. Durant 1st, Westbrook 14th. Howard 12th, Jrich 47th. Rose 8th, Deng 34th.

If you're going to pretend that scoring is the only relevant statistic in the choosing of an MVP candidate, can you at least use percentages, in stead of how far back their second guy is ranked in the NBA? The top 2 are not the only relevant pieces of a team.

Doogolas
02-15-2011, 11:42 PM
If you're going to pretend that scoring is the only relevant statistic in the choosing of an MVP candidate, can you at least use percentages, in stead of how far back their second guy is ranked in the NBA? The top 2 are not the only relevant pieces of a team.

Well, both Wade and LeBron are very good defenders as well as great scorers. So I'm not really sure it affects anything in his argument specifically for them.

footballer2369
02-15-2011, 11:47 PM
Well, both Wade and LeBron are very good defenders as well as great scorers. So I'm not really sure it affects anything in his argument specifically for them.

I agree about the first part, but my understanding of his argument is that since the other candidates don't have a 2nd scorer ranked as closely to the first in PPG, they are more valuable. (correct me if I'm wrong)

My point was that doesn't account for a more various and spread offensive attack. I have no doubt that Lebron accounts for a higher percentage of his teams points than many of those guys, because of the Heat's slow pace and lack of consistent scoring options beyond the Big 3.

JordansBulls
02-16-2011, 12:11 AM
pippen didnt stop jordan winning 4 mvps....

that argument cant work.

Yeah, but Wade actually won a title as the man though.

fin_frenzy_84
02-16-2011, 12:23 AM
I still believe Rose deserves it because without Rose the Bulls may not even make the playoffs. Rose makes Deng look incredible and of course Boozer is good and Noah but Rose runs the team and runs it good! Now that being said I think Lebron wins it because ESPN rides his jock. I still say Rose deserves it though!!!

kjoke
02-16-2011, 12:50 AM
Yeah, but Wade actually won a title as the man though.

go further in depth plz. Do you suggest that wade is that much greater than pippen? or are you having playoff performances affect your view of who the regular season mvp should be?

JordansBulls
02-16-2011, 12:54 AM
go further in depth plz. Do you suggest that wade is that much greater than pippen? or are you having playoff performances affect your view of who the regular season mvp should be?

Considering Wade led a team to the title with a historic Finals and was the hands down man, I would say so. Not only that but he played against Boston better than anyone else did last year as well with far inferior talent around him.

kjoke
02-16-2011, 12:56 AM
Considering Wade led a team to the title with a historic Finals and was the hands down man, I would say so. Not only that but he played against Boston better than anyone else did last year as well with far inferior talent around him.

ok, so you are letting wade's overall playoff image play a role into your view of why lebron shouldnt mvp./ which highly contradicts the meaning of regular season mvp.

D Roses Bulls
02-16-2011, 01:01 AM
pippen didnt stop jordan winning 4 mvps....

that argument cant work.

so pippen is great in this thread, but not great in the other threads. you guys really gotta make up your minds and stop saying the opposite to try and prove a point

DaBear
02-16-2011, 01:37 AM
so pippen is great in this thread, but not great in the other threads. you guys really gotta make up your minds and stop saying the opposite to try and prove a point

I've noticed that too. It's quite pathetic.

LayZbone
02-16-2011, 01:42 AM
Considering Wade led a team to the title with a historic Finals and was the hands down man, I would say so. Not only that but he played against Boston better than anyone else did last year as well with far inferior talent around him.

We know Wade's amazing in the playoffs, and he'll remind anyone who forgot that fact in May/June. But he's not the Heat's leading candidate for regular season MVP this year, as much as I love him. See my sig? add one more of the same trophy to each side :D.

icej
02-16-2011, 07:23 AM
I'm amazed at how dumb some people are. like they just said, this is the 17th game wade has had over 30 points this season and lebron is the mvp? lebron hasnt even been carrying the heat.

1.rose
2.howard

When people doesn't agree with your opinion it doesn't mean their dumb. <-- This insinuation is dumb.

Your comment would have been forgivable since you are not a heat fan (that do not follow every heat game), but basing your opinion on a boxed 17 game stat then calling people dumb is nothing less of it.

If you think the 17 games with 30 pts is enough to get away with proving LBJ's unworthiness to be MVP, better come up with a different argument because if you watch the last 50 games that the heat have played Wade is very inconsistent - in offense as well as in defense. The fact that LBJ Ave roughly 26pts per game and Wade 25 pts p/g with wade having more 30 pts per game only proves that in the 50 games played he struggles on many games, while LBJ's performance is consistent thus = to being more responsible to their current 30+ wins.

And of those wade's 30+pts performance LBJ's performance is nothing short of good. in 20/6/6 area. While most of the times of LBJ's 30+ performance is when the wade and bosh struggles, more on wade's part.

Wade's defense also plays a lot of Miami's struggle and losses, with his tendency to gamble on D a lot (Remains unchecked by the coaching staff). While LBJ's defense has blossomed under the heat uniform. (Not talking about stats) but the ability to make stops. The heat record struggles most on Defense during LBJ's injury, specially on guarding the 3pt shot, where the heat has the best % in defending against.

Today, without the hate factor LBJ still has to be the prime MVP candidate.
While Dwight Howard deserves to be in second and Rose close 3rd in IMHO.

icej
02-16-2011, 07:37 AM
Ask Spo who does the most for that team. He's flat out admitted that LeBron literally does everything. He handles the ball late in games. The offense runs through him when the game is on the line. He plays 3 positions on offense and can guard 4 positions on defense. One night he might be expected to be the scorer, the next night he might be expected to be the PG, the next night he might be expected to be neither and just shut down the opposing team's best player (which he'll do) and make some small plays here and there. He does everything. For a team that lacks depth and good role players, he basically provides those two things by himself because of his abilities.

Yes, and can't blame Spo to chose Lebron not just because of these things that you have outlined, but again, because of LBJ's consistency to be a FACTOR on their winning campaign.

Any coach would take consistently great- over greater at times.

Not to take anything away from wade coz he is still wade, and we can all easily say that come playoff he might explode and be consistent at it. But during the heat's regular season games, clearly LBJ is the consistent factor in the majority of their wins, on both sides of the court.

Jacoballen22
02-16-2011, 08:18 AM
I chose Derrick, he does the most for his team to win. Last night it was assists but most nights it is scoring..just saying. Even though I hate Lebron he is clearly second..come on look at Cleveland.

Baller1
02-16-2011, 12:44 PM
It's still clearly LeBron, nothing new.

justinnum1
02-16-2011, 12:47 PM
It's still clearly LeBron, nothing new.

yep

Cool007
02-16-2011, 12:54 PM
It's still clearly LeBron, nothing new.

How is it "CLEARLY" LeBron???

You take out LeBron and D-Wade and Bosh can still team up to win about 55 games - seeing how D-Wade and scrubs won 47 games last year (even with D-Wade missing few games).

People are really short selling D-Wade and his impact here. He is not just another all-star. He is also another franchise player that has led the team to a TITLE and a Finals MVP. He is no slouch.

The fact that half of the games D-Wade has been better in the games for Heat shows that it's a 2 Batmen team.

Not saying LeBron doesn't deserve it but there is no way you can say "Clearly".

PERIOD.

thekmp211
02-16-2011, 01:02 PM
^ clearly, no, but what he "clearly" is is the best player in the league. mvp remains to be seen, but it's funny how the doubters have quieted down this season. playing with wade and still CLEARLY being the better player...that says so much. plus cleveland ect.

i still think lebron is in the lead here, but rose/howard will get it if their teams make a big run or if chicago earns the number one seed.

JordansBulls
02-16-2011, 01:10 PM
^ clearly, no, but what he "clearly" is is the best player in the league. mvp remains to be seen, but it's funny how the doubters have quieted down this season. playing with wade and still CLEARLY being the better player...that says so much. plus cleveland ect.

i still think lebron is in the lead here, but rose/howard will get it if their teams make a big run or if chicago earns the number one seed.

No one is clearly the best in the league when they lose as the favorites and the best record in back to back years.

thekmp211
02-16-2011, 01:21 PM
No one is clearly the best in the league when they lose as the favorites and the best record in back to back years.

most talented, all-around dominant, most skilled, most influential, whatever.

we're talking regular season, first off. and second off, time will tell that none of those cavs teams were favorites.

he plays on a different level right now.

Cool007
02-16-2011, 01:22 PM
^ clearly, no, but what he "clearly" is is the best player in the league. mvp remains to be seen, but it's funny how the doubters have quieted down this season. playing with wade and still CLEARLY being the better player...that says so much. plus cleveland ect.

i still think lebron is in the lead here, but rose/howard will get it if their teams make a big run or if chicago earns the number one seed.

Nobody is denying that LeBron is the Best player in the world today. But MVP is a different thing.

He was clearly the MVP last year coz he was the best player on a team consisted of role players with no all-star on the team. They had the best record and so on.

This year he went to a team with TON better supporting cast and another 2 franchise players in D-Wade and Bosh and the team that won 47-games last year with Just wade and scrubs basically. Yet, they have WORSE record than Cavs from last year.

That is NOT MVP people. He is still right there but NOT in the LEAD.

JordansBulls
02-16-2011, 01:26 PM
most talented, all-around dominant, most skilled, most influential, whatever.

we're talking regular season, first off. and second off, time will tell that none of those cavs teams were favorites.

he plays on a different level right now.

Source: ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=OffseasonPredictions09-EastChamps)





Cleveland Cavaliers (32 votes)

This thing is Cleveland's to lose, says our panel -- or 60.4 percent of our panel, anyway.

It's no surprise to see so many votes for a team that has the reigning MVP and won 66 games last season. On the other hand, the Cavs had the same points in their favor in May, and were the heavy favorites to win the East at that time, too. But Orlando took care of Cleveland thanks to some amazing shooting and the dominance of Dwight Howard, and the Cavs were left licking their wounds.



For those saying the Cavs aren't suppose to win, then answer this?

Source: ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090512)



1. Cleveland (+9.12)
Welcome to the Cleveland Invitational, ladies and gentlemen. Yes, the Pistons had given up and the Hawks had injuries, but the fact is the Cavs have won eight straight playoff games by double figures. In this case it's a continuation of the Cavs' strong finish to the season, and it doesn't appear either Boston or Orlando has the goods to make them sweat much in a conference finals.

Cleveland also has home-court advantage going for it in the final two rounds, so at this point the Cavs have to be considered a heavy favorite to win the championship. They're playing the best basketball, have the best draw, have home-court and have the best player. They still have to play the games, of course, but the skids have already been greased. While the likes of Denver or L.A. could give them a tough fight in the Finals, at this point it appears that the only team that can beat Cleveland is Cleveland.



http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/JordansBulls/CavsvsMagic2009Playoffs.jpg

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/matchup/_/teams/magic-cavaliers



Source: Yahoosports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-10-best-teams-of-the-decade-never-to-win-a-c;_ylt=Ai8j0I4kfnCFSrGgLh3xx7q8vLYF?urn=nba,184569 )



1. Cleveland Cavaliers, 2008-09

I sort of like this also-ran, because it speaks to how we've grown as a sport-regarding culture over the years. These Cleveland Cavaliers ran up 66-wins, an almost-Bulls-like 8.9-point differential (way better than any team listed above), and had the greatest player in the game (LeBron James(notes)) at their disposal. And yet, when the team lost to the Orlando Magic in the Eastern Conference finals last spring, people seemed ready to smartly admit that the Cavs, for all their horses, just didn't have the horses to run with the Magic.

Nobody was labeled a choker, nobody was fired, and though the team traded for one big (hopeful) problem-solver in the offseason in Shaquille O'Neal, nobody seemed to overreact and make deals for the sake of making deals. Knowing that the team will have the best player in the game, at only age 24, around for at least the next season helps too; but you have to love the lack of hand-wringing. Still, the meek ending doesn't hide the fact that this was an otherwise dominant team that won 74 of its first 90 games before falling to the Magic in six.



2008-2009 Predictions - Eastern Conference

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=eastoffseasonpredictions

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=ConferenceChamps-080911


2008-09 PREDICTIONS: EASTERN CONFERENCE CHAMPS
RANK TEAM PREDICTED RECORD VOTES
1 Boston Celtics 55-27 (.671) 17
2 Cleveland Cavaliers 50-32 (.610) 6
3 Philadelphia Sixers 47-35 (.573) 2


So yeah in 2009 the only team that was to do better was Boston and they lost to Orlando.


Eastern Conference for 2009-2010

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=OffseasonPredictions09-EastStandings

#1 Cavs 61-21
#2 Boston 57-25
#3 Orlando 56-26



http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=OffseasonPredictions09-EastChamps

Cavs - 32 Votes
Celtics - 13 votes
Orlando - 8 votes


NBA Champion for 2009-2010

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=OffseasonPredictions09-NBAChamps

Lakers - 19 votes
Cavs - 18 votes
Spurs - 8 votes
Celtics - 5 votes
Orlando - 3 votes


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/preview2009/news/story?page=Predictions0910-Cavaliers



Last year's collapse in the Eastern Conference finals only made LeBron hungrier and more willing to expand his game. Now, opponents can expect to see him in the post more. Scary. And look for a resurgence from a truly motivated Shaq.




The Cavs were the best team in the East before collapsing against the Magic, and they've gotten even stronger in the offseason. Shaq and Anthony Parker should help shore up their bench. Still, they lack the athletic bigs to match up with the Magic in a seven-game series.




http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/JordansBulls/CavsvsCeltics2010Playoffs.jpg

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2010/matchup/_/teams/celtics-cavaliers


http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/all_league.html

2009-10 NBA

1st Team

F: Kevin Durant F: LeBron James
C: Dwight Howard
G: Kobe Bryant G: Dwyane Wade

2nd Team

F: Carmelo Anthony F: Dirk Nowitzki
C: Amare Stoudemire
G: Steve Nash G: Deron Williams


3rd Team

F: Tim Duncan F: Pau Gasol
C: Andrew Bogut
G: Joe Johnson G: Brandon Roy


Lost to a team that had 0 all nba members.

thekmp211
02-16-2011, 01:27 PM
^^ i agree, but this time last year the "best player" haters were countless. at least that has quieted down.

at this point, i'm rooting against my own interests for the magic to move up so dwight can win the damn thing. every time i look at that roster i shake my head in amazement that they are that good.

thekmp211
02-16-2011, 01:32 PM
Source: ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=OffseasonPredictions09-EastChamps)







For those saying the Cavs aren't suppose to win, then answer this?

Source: ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090512)




http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/JordansBulls/CavsvsMagic2009Playoffs.jpg

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/matchup/_/teams/magic-cavaliers



Source: Yahoosports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-10-best-teams-of-the-decade-never-to-win-a-c;_ylt=Ai8j0I4kfnCFSrGgLh3xx7q8vLYF?urn=nba,184569 )




2008-2009 Predictions - Eastern Conference

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=eastoffseasonpredictions

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=ConferenceChamps-080911


2008-09 PREDICTIONS: EASTERN CONFERENCE CHAMPS
RANK TEAM PREDICTED RECORD VOTES
1 Boston Celtics 55-27 (.671) 17
2 Cleveland Cavaliers 50-32 (.610) 6
3 Philadelphia Sixers 47-35 (.573) 2


So yeah in 2009 the only team that was to do better was Boston and they lost to Orlando.


Eastern Conference for 2009-2010

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=OffseasonPredictions09-EastStandings

#1 Cavs 61-21
#2 Boston 57-25
#3 Orlando 56-26



http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=OffseasonPredictions09-EastChamps

Cavs - 32 Votes
Celtics - 13 votes
Orlando - 8 votes


NBA Champion for 2009-2010

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=OffseasonPredictions09-NBAChamps

Lakers - 19 votes
Cavs - 18 votes
Spurs - 8 votes
Celtics - 5 votes
Orlando - 3 votes


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/preview2009/news/story?page=Predictions0910-Cavaliers







http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o165/JordansBulls/CavsvsCeltics2010Playoffs.jpg

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2010/matchup/_/teams/celtics-cavaliers


http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/all_league.html

2009-10 NBA

1st Team

F: Kevin Durant F: LeBron James
C: Dwight Howard
G: Kobe Bryant G: Dwyane Wade

2nd Team

F: Carmelo Anthony F: Dirk Nowitzki
C: Amare Stoudemire
G: Steve Nash G: Deron Williams


3rd Team

F: Tim Duncan F: Pau Gasol
C: Andrew Bogut
G: Joe Johnson G: Brandon Roy


Lost to a team that had 0 all nba members.


im having trouble bolding and picking, so i'll just respond as a whole.

i understand the cavs were CONSIDERED favorites at the time. best record, best player ect.

but one quote says it all -- the one where the writer insinuates shaq and delonte/parker being missing pieces.

the team they lost to had no all-nba players, sure, but 4 hall of fame players. not a small task.

sit back and think about how we will view the cavs in ten years. sandwiched between a superteam and the leagues best center, devoid of quality talent.

everyone wanted lebron to win, to be the guy, so we saw what we wanted to see. my point is it's pretty clear now that those teams were overrated as contenders and clearly never should have been favorites. a la the recent mavericks teams, their fates are actually quite similar. does dirk deserve the same criticisms?

bigsams50
02-16-2011, 01:39 PM
Lost to a team that had 0 all nba members.


Wow. Your really selling that Celtics team short. Yea no All-NBA members, but they were the second best team in the league last season, and took the eventual champion Lakers to a 7 Game series in the Finals. You try to make it sound as though Lebron lost to a team of scrubs, when in reality he didn't. He lost to a COMPLETE TEAM. Something Bron has never been able to have in Cleveland.

Doogolas
02-16-2011, 02:09 PM
Yes, and can't blame Spo to chose Lebron not just because of these things that you have outlined, but again, because of LBJ's consistency to be a FACTOR on their winning campaign.

Any coach would take consistently great- over greater at times.

Not to take anything away from wade coz he is still wade, and we can all easily say that come playoff he might explode and be consistent at it. But during the heat's regular season games, clearly LBJ is the consistent factor in the majority of their wins, on both sides of the court.

LBJ is no more consistent than Wade. Check it:

James has had 28 games of 20-29 points. 15 games of more than 30 points and 9 games below 20 points.

James has had 15 games of 10+ boards, 26 games with between 6 and 9 boards and 11 games of 5 or less.

James has had 19 games of 9+ assists, 18 games of 6 to 8 assists and 15 games of 5 or less assists.

Here's Wade (for clarification all averages are being based around roughly their seasonal averages, as the more often they are close to their season averages, obviously then, the more often they are consistent because highs and lows indicate inconsistency):

Wade has had 17 games of 30+ points, 22 games of 20-29 points and 11 games of less than 20 points (not counting the two games where he left hurt for obvious reasons).

Wade has had 8 games of 10+ boards, 28 games of 6 to 9 boards and 13 games of 5 or less boards. (Again not counting the games he left hurt).

Wade has had 10 games of 7+ assists, 23 games of between 4 and 6 assists, 17 games of 3 or less assists.

Thus LeBron has had:
54% of games with right around his season average in points.
50% of games with right around his season average in boards.
35% of games with right around his season average in assists.

Then Wade has had:
45% of games with right around his season average in points.
57% of games with right around his season average in points.
48% of games with right around his season average in assists.

Their average of their averages is:
54+50+35/3 = 46.3% for LeBron

45+57+48 = 50.0% for Wade

They're both consistent roughly the same amount on the whole. LeBron has an edge in consistency scoring-wise, while Wade is more consistent getting his boards and assists.

Now before anyone berates me about how "Wade needs so many fewer assists!" That's really not fair to Wade at all, because both LeBron and Wade can't play the "point" and run the show. Therefore only one of them can possibly rack up the 7~ assists per game. Something Wade did perfectly fine when he was in that roll every year of his career outside his rookie year before this. Plus, this is merely a show of consistency.

Minimal
02-16-2011, 02:23 PM
LBJ is no more consistent than Wade. Check it:

James has had 28 games of 20-29 points. 15 games of more than 30 points and 9 games below 20 points.

James has had 15 games of 10+ boards, 26 games with between 6 and 9 boards and 11 games of 5 or less.

James has had 19 games of 9+ assists, 18 games of 6 to 8 assists and 15 games of 5 or less assists.

Here's Wade (for clarification all averages are being based around roughly their seasonal averages, as the more often they are close to their season averages, obviously then, the more often they are consistent because highs and lows indicate inconsistency):

Wade has had 17 games of 30+ points, 22 games of 20-29 points and 11 games of less than 20 points (not counting the two games where he left hurt for obvious reasons).

Wade has had 8 games of 10+ boards, 28 games of 6 to 9 boards and 13 games of 5 or less boards. (Again not counting the games he left hurt).

Wade has had 10 games of 7+ assists, 23 games of between 4 and 6 assists, 17 games of 3 or less assists.

Thus LeBron has had:
54% of games with right around his season average in points.
50% of games with right around his season average in boards.
35% of games with right around his season average in assists.

Then Wade has had:
45% of games with right around his season average in points.
57% of games with right around his season average in points.
48% of games with right around his season average in assists.

Their average of their averages is:
54+50+35/3 = 46.3% for LeBron

45+57+48 = 50.0% for Wade

They're both consistent roughly the same amount on the whole. LeBron has an edge in consistency scoring-wise, while Wade is more consistent getting his boards and assists.

Now before anyone berates me about how "Wade needs so many fewer assists!" That's really not fair to Wade at all, because both LeBron and Wade can't play the "point" and run the show. Therefore only one of them can possibly rack up the 7~ assists per game. Something Wade did perfectly fine when he was in that roll every year of his career outside his rookie year before this. Plus, this is merely a show of consistency.
U think if LeBron averaged 12 assists per game, he would had same 35% in 11-13 assist period?
Your consistency "stats" are kinda wrong.
Better check FG% consistency. I'll tell u 1 thing:
Lowest FG% game LeBron had this year was .263 FG%
Wade had 4 games lower than .250 FG%, 2 of which were against our East biggest rival Boston, if he was consistent against Boston as he was in last years playoffs we would have been easily nr. 1 seed in East.

BigDFan85
02-16-2011, 02:45 PM
How is it "CLEARLY" LeBron???

You take out LeBron and D-Wade and Bosh can still team up to win about 55 games - seeing how D-Wade and scrubs won 47 games last year (even with D-Wade missing few games).

People are really short selling D-Wade and his impact here. He is not just another all-star. He is also another franchise player that has led the team to a TITLE and a Finals MVP. He is no slouch.

The fact that half of the games D-Wade has been better in the games for Heat shows that it's a 2 Batmen team.

Not saying LeBron doesn't deserve it but there is no way you can say "Clearly".

PERIOD.

I pretty much agree with you here. To me the MVP is the player that, if you took them off their current team, said team would clearly not be as good. From reading most of your posts many of you feel the MVP is just the best player in the NBA, which I think goes against the spirit of the MVP award.

If you go by the theory that the MVP is the most VALUABLE player, to their team, then Lebron is not MVP. He is a great player yes, but if you took him off the Heat I don't think they would experience much of a drop off in performance or wins/losses. If you are talking best player, then of course Lebron is right there at the top.

To me, D Rose and Dirk are the top two candidates for the MVP right now, with Dirk getting the edge because of how awful the Mavs were when he was hurt. Of course this is going to look like a homer's point of view, but the proof is in the numbers folks. Dirk has the highest +/- of any player and the Mavs are 36-9 with him and 2-7 without him. Rose carried the Bulls when both Boozer and Noah were out, which further solidified his case.

D Roses Bulls
02-16-2011, 04:01 PM
wow, some people will make excuses for anything why lebron is mvp. even some of the miami fans trying to limit wades impact, a guy who carried your team the last couple years. way too show support to the guy who made this all happen for you. :facepalm:

D Roses Bulls
02-16-2011, 04:02 PM
It's still clearly LeBron, nothing new.

man, I know you tryna prove your point with your little sig, but i thought you were smarter then that.

TheGiantYankee
02-16-2011, 04:18 PM
Wow, people in the NBA forum are smart

The poll is ACTUALLY reflecting what it should be

Tarheels23
02-16-2011, 04:34 PM
How is it "CLEARLY" LeBron???

You take out LeBron and D-Wade and Bosh can still team up to win about 55 games - seeing how D-Wade and scrubs won 47 games last year (even with D-Wade missing few games).

People are really short selling D-Wade and his impact here. He is not just another all-star. He is also another franchise player that has led the team to a TITLE and a Finals MVP. He is no slouch.

The fact that half of the games D-Wade has been better in the games for Heat shows that it's a 2 Batmen team.

Not saying LeBron doesn't deserve it but there is no way you can say "Clearly".

PERIOD.


I dont think you can argue that. Take Chris Paul away from the Hornets, what are they? Take Amare off of the Knicks, how do they look? Take Dirk away from the Mavs, are they the 2 seed out west? Pull Garnett off of the Celtics, how they looking.... look at 2008-2009. Take Dwight off the Magic, they are a lottery team. Where are the Thunder if you remove Durant? Hell take Smith/Johnson off of the Hawks...

Going by your arguement, there are a ton of players who deserve MVP over LeBron. LeBron is the most valuable player in the league no matter what team he plays for. He does it all.... scores, rebounds, hands out assists, blocks shots, steals, is a leader of a championship contender. You can hate on him all you want (and I admit I hate on him too) but he is easily the most valuable player in the association.

nshush
02-16-2011, 04:38 PM
LeBron James is the MVP. And fortunately/unfortunately for next 7/8 years it's not gonna change much. He's waaay too good for others to match with his stats and his team will always have one of the top records. Case-closed.

Cool007
02-16-2011, 05:30 PM
I dont think you can argue that. Take Chris Paul away from the Hornets, what are they? Take Amare off of the Knicks, how do they look? Take Dirk away from the Mavs, are they the 2 seed out west? Pull Garnett off of the Celtics, how they looking.... look at 2008-2009. Take Dwight off the Magic, they are a lottery team. Where are the Thunder if you remove Durant? Hell take Smith/Johnson off of the Hawks...

Going by your arguement, there are a ton of players who deserve MVP over LeBron. LeBron is the most valuable player in the league no matter what team he plays for. He does it all.... scores, rebounds, hands out assists, blocks shots, steals, is a leader of a championship contender. You can hate on him all you want (and I admit I hate on him too) but he is easily the most valuable player in the association.

The whole thing is that they have to be actually good enough to be top 3 seed atleast to be even in the conversation of (what if you take that player out).

With Rose/LeBron/Dirk - their teams are already top 3 seed and top 5 in the NBA. This is really MVP talk and not the best player on any team talk.

I hope I won't have to explain any further than this.

Doogolas
02-16-2011, 05:33 PM
U think if LeBron averaged 12 assists per game, he would had same 35% in 11-13 assist period?
Your consistency "stats" are kinda wrong.
Better check FG% consistency. I'll tell u 1 thing:
Lowest FG% game LeBron had this year was .263 FG%
Wade had 4 games lower than .250 FG%, 2 of which were against our East biggest rival Boston, if he was consistent against Boston as he was in last years playoffs we would have been easily nr. 1 seed in East.

Let's ask Rajon Rondo about the 12 assists. And it wouldn't be 11-13.

Just FYI though, Rondo has had only 10 games with less than 10 assists and only 17 games less than 11.

FG% is a terrible stat. Do you have any idea how much work it would take to figure out how to use something like FG% or ts% to properly test each of their respective consistency? You can't just ballpark that because they have different ts% and FG% and since those numbers aren't just solid numbers, you'd have to figure out the standard deviation and find out how often they get three SD away, how often they're two away, etc. I'm not going to do that.

Wade and LeBron are just as consistent as one another. Trying to say they're not is rather ridiculous. LeBron is a better player, but Wade is still a ****ing monster and is also consistent as hell.

Further, you can make the case that not having the #1 seed is just as much LeBron's fault as Wade's. Wade dominated against the Knicks in that loss and LeBron played like **** 7/24 with 24 points, Wade was 14/22 with 34 points. If LeBron had been "consistent" against the Knicks, maybe they'd have won and have the #1 seed.

How about against Atlanta when LeBron was 11/30 including 2/10 from three point land?

That kind of nit picking can go back and forth all day. Both of them are consistent. There is absolutely no argument to be made for LeBron having to play with some insanely inconsistent #2 option in Dwyane ****ing Wade. I mean, think about that for a minute.

I'm not even saying LeBron isn't MVP (I do not think he is, but that's not the argument I'm making) I'm just saying that anybody trying to argue that Wade is some "inconsistent" #2 option is completely kidding themselves.

shizzle09
02-16-2011, 06:21 PM
How is it "CLEARLY" LeBron???

You take out LeBron and D-Wade and Bosh can still team up to win about 55 games - seeing how D-Wade and scrubs won 47 games last year (even with D-Wade missing few games).

People are really short selling D-Wade and his impact here. He is not just another all-star. He is also another franchise player that has led the team to a TITLE and a Finals MVP. He is no slouch.

The fact that half of the games D-Wade has been better in the games for Heat shows that it's a 2 Batmen team.

Not saying LeBron doesn't deserve it but there is no way you can say "Clearly".

PERIOD.

completely agree with this.

h2r09
02-16-2011, 06:36 PM
Let's ask Rajon Rondo about the 12 assists. And it wouldn't be 11-13.

Just FYI though, Rondo has had only 10 games with less than 10 assists and only 17 games less than 11.

FG% is a terrible stat. Do you have any idea how much work it would take to figure out how to use something like FG% or ts% to properly test each of their respective consistency? You can't just ballpark that because they have different ts% and FG% and since those numbers aren't just solid numbers, you'd have to figure out the standard deviation and find out how often they get three SD away, how often they're two away, etc. I'm not going to do that.

Wade and LeBron are just as consistent as one another. Trying to say they're not is rather ridiculous. LeBron is a better player, but Wade is still a ****ing monster and is also consistent as hell.

Further, you can make the case that not having the #1 seed is just as much LeBron's fault as Wade's. Wade dominated against the Knicks in that loss and LeBron played like **** 7/24 with 24 points, Wade was 14/22 with 34 points. If LeBron had been "consistent" against the Knicks, maybe they'd have won and have the #1 seed.

How about against Atlanta when LeBron was 11/30 including 2/10 from three point land?

That kind of nit picking can go back and forth all day. Both of them are consistent. There is absolutely no argument to be made for LeBron having to play with some insanely inconsistent #2 option in Dwyane ****ing Wade. I mean, think about that for a minute.

I'm not even saying LeBron isn't MVP (I do not think he is, but that's not the argument I'm making) I'm just saying that anybody trying to argue that Wade is some "inconsistent" #2 option is completely kidding themselves.

if you watched the heat all season you would see how inconsistent wade has been this year. he has still been great a fair share of the time, but he has had so many nicks and bruises and then he goes a few games at a times where he is just playing out of control and not making his shots. he has not been consistent but i wouldnt call him fully inconsistent.

nshush
02-16-2011, 06:51 PM
LeBron James. Hands down, pants down! If you have any doubt you might wanna comeback to this thread in the first week of playoffs when I can bet there won't be as many bulls fans visiting this. It's pretty ridiculous when ~98% neutral fans are saying it's LeBron (with all that hate) and they bulls fans are on denial.

dhopisthename
02-16-2011, 08:01 PM
LeBron James. Hands down, pants down! If you have any doubt you might wanna comeback to this thread in the first week of playoffs when I can bet there won't be as many bulls fans visiting this. It's pretty ridiculous when ~98% neutral fans are saying it's LeBron (with all that hate) and they bulls fans are on denial.

98% of fans are not saying it is lebron. In fact if you read alot of sport sights they say it should be rose. I think however it should be lebron. To put up the stats he is on the team he is on is simply incredible

Raph12
02-16-2011, 09:44 PM
Superman doing work: 32pts-10rbs-1ast-3blks on 12-15FG and 8-11FT in under 28mins vs the Wiz... Too easy lol.

Doogolas
02-16-2011, 10:17 PM
if you watched the heat all season you would see how inconsistent wade has been this year. he has still been great a fair share of the time, but he has had so many nicks and bruises and then he goes a few games at a times where he is just playing out of control and not making his shots. he has not been consistent but i wouldnt call him fully inconsistent.

I've watched a lot of Heat games. And Wade hasn't been any more inconsistent than LeBron. He's been SLIGHTLY more inconsistent scoring the ball, but he's been more consistent at getting his boards and his assists than James has. Yes, I am aware James gets MORE assists. But Wade gets his 4 or 5 nightly more than James gets his 7 or 8 nightly and Wade does it without being the primary ball handler, and there is without a doubt something to be said for that.

LeBron is better than Wade. This isn't me saying LeBron doesn't earn the MVP. But saying "Because Wade is inconsistent" is ridiculous. Why all of a sudden do people feel like shortchanging Wade to make a case for LeBron being MVP? That's just insane.

bovice163
02-16-2011, 10:44 PM
I've watched a lot of Heat games. And Wade hasn't been any more inconsistent than LeBron. He's been SLIGHTLY more inconsistent scoring the ball, but he's been more consistent at getting his boards and his assists than James has. Yes, I am aware James gets MORE assists. But Wade gets his 4 or 5 nightly more than James gets his 7 or 8 nightly and Wade does it without being the primary ball handler, and there is without a doubt something to be said for that.

LeBron is better than Wade. This isn't me saying LeBron doesn't earn the MVP. But saying "Because Wade is inconsistent" is ridiculous. Why all of a sudden do people feel like shortchanging Wade to make a case for LeBron being MVP? That's just insane.

dis right here my brothers

D Roses Bulls
02-16-2011, 10:59 PM
I've watched a lot of Heat games. And Wade hasn't been any more inconsistent than LeBron. He's been SLIGHTLY more inconsistent scoring the ball, but he's been more consistent at getting his boards and his assists than James has. Yes, I am aware James gets MORE assists. But Wade gets his 4 or 5 nightly more than James gets his 7 or 8 nightly and Wade does it without being the primary ball handler, and there is without a doubt something to be said for that.

LeBron is better than Wade. This isn't me saying LeBron doesn't earn the MVP. But saying "Because Wade is inconsistent" is ridiculous. Why all of a sudden do people feel like shortchanging Wade to make a case for LeBron being MVP? That's just insane.

that's what i was saying earlier about the heat fans doing that. the heat won like 45-48 games with just wade for two seasons and he is the reason miami is what it is right now. no wade=no lebron or bosh. really sad how the heat fans on here were saying last year, that wade was better then lebron and hated him and now all a sudden lebron is their god and they forget about wade.

footballer2369
02-16-2011, 11:44 PM
I've watched a lot of Heat games. And Wade hasn't been any more inconsistent than LeBron. He's been SLIGHTLY more inconsistent scoring the ball, but he's been more consistent at getting his boards and his assists than James has. Yes, I am aware James gets MORE assists. But Wade gets his 4 or 5 nightly more than James gets his 7 or 8 nightly and Wade does it without being the primary ball handler, and there is without a doubt something to be said for that.

LeBron is better than Wade. This isn't me saying LeBron doesn't earn the MVP. But saying "Because Wade is inconsistent" is ridiculous. Why all of a sudden do people feel like shortchanging Wade to make a case for LeBron being MVP? That's just insane.

I agree with your final idea, however Wade has been less consistent- only in that he has had some downright putrid games (see Boston) and inconsistency taking care of the basketball that has led to losses. Wade is a slightly more peaks and valleys type of player than Lebron, and that's part of what makes his game so tantalizing.

Doogolas
02-16-2011, 11:53 PM
I agree with your final idea, however Wade has been less consistent- only in that he has had some downright putrid games (see Boston) and inconsistency taking care of the basketball that has led to losses. Wade is a slightly more peaks and valleys type of player than Lebron, and that's part of what makes his game so tantalizing.

LeBron has had some putrid games too like their loss to Dallas. And turning over the basketball is the last thing you want to point out in this comparison because Bron has a TOV% of 14.6 to Wade's 12.4.

I really don't like Dwyane Wade at all, so having to defend him is almost painful, but it's just ridiculous that people are going to say Wade's "inconsistency" should be an argument for LeBron James as the MVP when that is just ridiculous. Wade is without doubt the most consistent and best player James has ever been teammates with. Wade's "inconsistency" is better than 99% of players in the whole damn league. There is just no ****ing way anybody should be making a case for LeBron because "Wade is inconsistent" that's just ridiculous.

bovice163
02-16-2011, 11:56 PM
LeBron has had some putrid games too like their loss to Dallas. And turning over the basketball is the last thing you want to point out in this comparison because Bron has a TOV% of 14.6 to Wade's 12.4.

I really don't like Dwyane Wade at all, so having to defend him is almost painful, but it's just ridiculous that people are going to say Wade's "inconsistency" should be an argument for LeBron James as the MVP when that is just ridiculous. Wade is without doubt the most consistent and best player James has ever been teammates with. Wade's "inconsistency" is better than 99% of players in the whole damn league. There is just no ****ing way anybody should be making a case for LeBron because "Wade is inconsistent" that's just ridiculous.

A ****ing men. I give you credit Doogs, you get your point across very well. Better than I did for what it's worth. :)

footballer2369
02-17-2011, 12:13 AM
LeBron has had some putrid games too like their loss to Dallas. And turning over the basketball is the last thing you want to point out in this comparison because Bron has a TOV% of 14.6 to Wade's 12.4.

I really don't like Dwyane Wade at all, so having to defend him is almost painful, but it's just ridiculous that people are going to say Wade's "inconsistency" should be an argument for LeBron James as the MVP when that is just ridiculous. Wade is without doubt the most consistent and best player James has ever been teammates with. Wade's "inconsistency" is better than 99% of players in the whole damn league. There is just no ****ing way anybody should be making a case for LeBron because "Wade is inconsistent" that's just ridiculous.

I think the main issue in your thinking here is believing that people are making a case that Lebron is MVP because Wade is inconsistent.

Lebron is MVP because he is the best basketball player in the world- the most valuable player in the world, too. That he has D-Wade neither helps nor hurts his value.

I agree completely that people should not be bringing down Wade, my favorite basketball player alive outside of Mike Miller, but they are doing that in response to people claiming that Lebron can't win the award and is suddenly less valuable because he plays with Wade. It's reactive, not an initiated argument.

And again, I disagree a little with your consistency argument, as I believe you're looking too big picture as I feel, like other Heat fans, that Wade has been the driving force behind a couple of losses, with Lebron almost never being that guy. The point is extremely difficult to prove- and I don't care to do so- so we should just drop it anyway.

kobe24>lebron23
02-17-2011, 12:27 AM
Lol at Lebron leading the poll it should be rose or Dwight!

Doogolas
02-17-2011, 12:27 AM
I think the main issue in your thinking here is believing that people are making a case that Lebron is MVP because Wade is inconsistent.

Lebron is MVP because he is the best basketball player in the world- the most valuable player in the world, too. That he has D-Wade neither helps nor hurts his value.

I agree completely that people should not be bringing down Wade, my favorite basketball player alive outside of Mike Miller, but they are doing that in response to people claiming that Lebron can't win the award and is suddenly less valuable because he plays with Wade. It's reactive, not an initiated argument.

And again, I disagree a little with your consistency argument, as I believe you're looking too big picture as I feel, like other Heat fans, that Wade has been the driving force behind a couple of losses, with Lebron almost never being that guy. The point is extremely difficult to prove- and I don't care to do so- so we should just drop it anyway.

You can disagree with my argument, but go back a few pages and look. People WERE in fact arguing the very thing I said they were. People were saying that LeBron is MVP in part because of Wade's inconsistencies, which is just ridiculous.

LeBron IS less valuable because he plays with Wade. Wade is a guy that can pretty much single handedly carry a team to 45+ wins. The man has done it before. The Miami Heat without James are no less than a 45 win team. I would be completely and utterly stunned if James got hurt all next year and the Heat didn't win 45 games.

So if the Heat end up winning, say, 60 games this year, I simply don't think those 15 games are more valuable than what a few other players add to their respective teams. You are free to disagree, but that's how I look at MVP and how I look at the matter this season.

k.smith904
02-17-2011, 12:54 AM
You can disagree with my argument, but go back a few pages and look. People WERE in fact arguing the very thing I said they were. People were saying that LeBron is MVP in part because of Wade's inconsistencies, which is just ridiculous.

LeBron IS less valuable because he plays with Wade. Wade is a guy that can pretty much single handedly carry a team to 45+ wins. The man has done it before. The Miami Heat without James are no less than a 45 win team. I would be completely and utterly stunned if James got hurt all next year and the Heat didn't win 45 games.

So if the Heat end up winning, say, 60 games this year, I simply don't think those 15 games are more valuable than what a few other players add to their respective teams. You are free to disagree, but that's how I look at MVP and how I look at the matter this season.

QFT.

This is the criteria for a true most VALUABLE player.

That's why it's either Rose or Howard to me. Maybe if Amare runs **** the next few weeks, but I doubt it.

That said, it will go to le bj once again. People are too concerned with stats to think about the actual value of a player to his respective team.

The Jokemaker
02-17-2011, 01:00 AM
Well tonight's Raptors game should give even more credibility to the argument that Lebron isn't the MVP. Wade again carried the team to the win. Howard, Rose, or Durant are the true MVPs of the league.

PrestigeWldWde
02-17-2011, 01:32 AM
Lebron is the MVP and there is no doubt about it.

45-43 in voting at the time of this post...i'm guessing there is some doubt. Fun to be a homer isn't it?
So, let's really see which one of these guys is the
M-ost
V-aluable
P-layer?
Rose has the #s to be an MVP...no doubt that LeBron does too. The difference is you take Rose off the Bulls and they are a TERRIBLE team. Take LeBron off the Heat and they are still a top 4 team in the conference. The Bulls are 2.5 games behind the Heat despite missing Boozer/Noah for significant time during the 1st half of the season. Put it all together and you have your MVP (as of right now)- Mr. Derrick Rose.
Don't get it twisted though, i'm not saying he would win by a longshot or that it's even a for sure thing, but that would be my argument for Rose being MVP. If LeBron is MVP right now for some people, I understand it because it's that close. But for you to say there's no doubt about it...cmon man, step out of the Miami sun for a moment and look into the world of the NBA...there are more players than LeBron and Wade and there are more teams than the Heat. If you are going to sit there and type out a statement like that, then by all means explain why you think that. Just don't type some nonsense because you don't have the mental capacity to think outside the box once in a while. I'm sure when LeBron was in Cleveland last season you were thinking Wade was the MVP too.:rolleyes:

PrestigeWldWde
02-17-2011, 01:38 AM
Lol at Lebron leading the poll it should be rose or Dwight!

That's a bad *** sig bro.
In terms of playing style and killer instinct, Kobe is, and probably will be THE closest to MJ that we will ever see. Every time I watch the Lakers in the playoffs and I see Kobe start to back a defender down in the lane for a fade-away, or pull up for a quick rally stopper 3-pointer, I just can't help but think of Jordan throughout his career here in Chicago. The resemblance in playing style is so eerie...and they both have that swag. I say "have" because Gerald Wallace was saying Jordan was taking some of them Bobcats to school during a few recent practices...and he was in their ears the whole time too.:D

Minimal
02-17-2011, 05:09 AM
Well tonight's Raptors game should give even more credibility to the argument that Lebron isn't the MVP. Wade again carried the team to the win. Howard, Rose, or Durant are the true MVPs of the league.
LeBron was 2 assists away from triple double and scored only 5 points less:facepalm:

Kyben36
02-17-2011, 05:32 AM
Lebron is the MVP and there is no doubt about it.

I think he wins it, but does he deserve it. he is clearly the best player in the league, but put in terms of what MVP truely means, MOST Valuable player, if you take lebron away from that team, how many wins do you loose, now take rose away from the bulls, how many wins do you loose.

I think in these terms, its pretty clear that rose is more valuable to the bulls then lebron to the heat. but I have a fealing that the nba will make him a poster child yet agiain, even though he has arguably the 2nd-3rd best player in the league on his team, but then again, that was arguable with MJ too.

justinnum1
02-17-2011, 10:23 AM
Well tonight's Raptors game should give even more credibility to the argument that Lebron isn't the MVP. Wade again carried the team to the win. Howard, Rose, or Durant are the true MVPs of the league.

:facepalm: How about watching the game instead of looking at the box score:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::face palm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::face palm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Baller1
02-17-2011, 11:33 AM
:laugh2:

Now Bulls fans are trying to discredit LeBron by anointing Wade as an equal. It never fails...

Wade is the second best player in the NBA right now, but that doesn't mean he's on LeBron's level. That man is on a level of his own.

Raph12
02-17-2011, 11:39 AM
:laugh2:

Now Bulls fans are trying to discredit LeBron by anointing Wade as an equal. It never fails...

Wade is the second best player in the NBA right now, but that doesn't mean he's on LeBron's level. That man is on a level of his own.

Third best...

Baller1
02-17-2011, 01:17 PM
Third best...

I don't know which one you're referring to, but Wade is better than both Kobe and Dwight. And Durant isn't there just yet... ;)

footballer2369
02-17-2011, 01:37 PM
I don't know which one you're referring to, but Wade is better than both Kobe and Dwight. And Durant isn't there just yet... ;)

Agree.

And I don't understand how people here are arguing semantics about value. If we're LITERALLY just arguing value it's Lebron hands down. Look what adding him has done to the amount of tickets sold, the tv ratings and the Heat's franchise value. No other player could even hope to have such value- with only Kobe being on the same proverbial planet. The NBA is a business, so this would be the most literal, expected use of value without a predetermined definition in context by the league.

Raph12
02-17-2011, 01:47 PM
I don't know which one you're referring to, but Wade is better than both Kobe and Dwight. And Durant isn't there just yet... ;)

He's not better than Dwight, he has a case against Kobe since Kobe has dropped off a bit this season... Impact, stats, value, w/e you try to make a case for, Dwight is better than Wade.

Doogolas
02-17-2011, 02:34 PM
:laugh2:

Now Bulls fans are trying to discredit LeBron by anointing Wade as an equal. It never fails...

Wade is the second best player in the NBA right now, but that doesn't mean he's on LeBron's level. That man is on a level of his own.

Are you ****ing kidding me? You clearly didn't even read the God damn argument. You're just posting ********. Nobody has said Wade = LeBron even a little bit. I outright said in post after post "LeBron is most definitely the better player..." I said it numerous ****ing times.

What I was arguing is that nothing about Wade should go into an argument FOR LeBron being MVP. If people think LeBron deserves it that's perfectly fair and fine, but trying to use Wade as a reason, be it that he's "inconsistent" or whatever, is ****ing obnoxious and stupid.

Before you just spew ******** about what people are arguing do me a favor and read the ****ing posts.

Doogolas
02-17-2011, 02:35 PM
Agree.

And I don't understand how people here are arguing semantics about value. If we're LITERALLY just arguing value it's Lebron hands down. Look what adding him has done to the amount of tickets sold, the tv ratings and the Heat's franchise value. No other player could even hope to have such value- with only Kobe being on the same proverbial planet. The NBA is a business, so this would be the most literal, expected use of value without a predetermined definition in context by the league.

Wrong, that would be the award that goes to the Exec of the year. You know, the award for the business side.

Value added to the team is not the same as value added to the franchise.

Cool007
02-17-2011, 02:43 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me? You clearly didn't even read the God damn argument. You're just posting ********. Nobody has said Wade = LeBron even a little bit. I outright said in post after post "LeBron is most definitely the better player..." I said it numerous ****ing times.

What I was arguing is that nothing about Wade should go into an argument FOR LeBron being MVP. If people think LeBron deserves it that's perfectly fair and fine, but trying to use Wade as a reason, be it that he's "inconsistent" or whatever, is ****ing obnoxious and stupid.

Before you just spew ******** about what people are arguing do me a favor and read the ****ing posts.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

footballer2369
02-17-2011, 02:48 PM
Wrong, that would be the award that goes to the Exec of the year. You know, the award for the business side.

Value added to the team is not the same as value added to the franchise.

Exec of the year= best exec on business side
Most valuable player= best player on business side... it's as plausible as any of the other definitions of the award in the thread. There is no definition that stipulates whether MVP is for franchises or for teams, so that's also opinion.

Baller1
02-17-2011, 02:49 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me? You clearly didn't even read the God damn argument. You're just posting ********. Nobody has said Wade = LeBron even a little bit. I outright said in post after post "LeBron is most definitely the better player..." I said it numerous ****ing times.

What I was arguing is that nothing about Wade should go into an argument FOR LeBron being MVP. If people think LeBron deserves it that's perfectly fair and fine, but trying to use Wade as a reason, be it that he's "inconsistent" or whatever, is ****ing obnoxious and stupid.

Before you just spew ******** about what people are arguing do me a favor and read the ****ing posts.

:laugh2:

Dude, calm down. :laugh2:

Cubs Win
02-17-2011, 02:53 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me? You clearly didn't even read the God damn argument. You're just posting ********. Nobody has said Wade = LeBron even a little bit. I outright said in post after post "LeBron is most definitely the better player..." I said it numerous ****ing times.

What I was arguing is that nothing about Wade should go into an argument FOR LeBron being MVP. If people think LeBron deserves it that's perfectly fair and fine, but trying to use Wade as a reason, be it that he's "inconsistent" or whatever, is ****ing obnoxious and stupid.

Before you just spew ******** about what people are arguing do me a favor and read the ****ing posts.

You can tell from his sig that you shouldn't expect anything of substance in his posts, I wouldn't even worry about his opinion.

Baller1
02-17-2011, 02:57 PM
You can tell from his sig that you shouldn't expect anything of substance in his posts, I wouldn't even worry about his opinion.

I know so much more about basketball than you it's ridiculous. Your crush on me is getting pretty ridiculous.

Doogolas
02-17-2011, 03:03 PM
:laugh2:

Dude, calm down. :laugh2:

Then quit ****ing insulting Bulls fans just for talking and saying everything they do is ****ing stupid. I'm sick of it. It's so annoying and it's half your damn posts in here. Don't put words into my mouth, don't spew ********, don't just group fans together and either try to say something about the discussion or just read it and don't comment.

All it takes is your stupid as hell comment and me not being around until later tonight and all of a sudden five Heat fans are saying how ******** it is to say Wade = LeBron and that Bulls fans will use anything to justify it, and then guess what? Over the next week that will be the ****ing response to everything.

It takes two people to discuss something but only one dumbass comment to **** the entire thing up.

Baller1
02-17-2011, 03:23 PM
Then quit ****ing insulting Bulls fans just for talking and saying everything they do is ****ing stupid. I'm sick of it. It's so annoying and it's half your damn posts in here. Don't put words into my mouth, don't spew ********, don't just group fans together and either try to say something about the discussion or just read it and don't comment.

All it takes is your stupid as hell comment and me not being around until later tonight and all of a sudden five Heat fans are saying how ******** it is to say Wade = LeBron and that Bulls fans will use anything to justify it, and then guess what? Over the next week that will be the ****ing response to everything.

It takes two people to discuss something but only one dumbass comment to **** the entire thing up.

:laugh2:

Please continue, tell me how you really feel.

Doogolas
02-17-2011, 03:37 PM
Nothing else to say about it. I'd just prefer you not make an ******* of yourself by spewing nonsense and putting words into people's mouths.

Is that simple enough for you to understand?

Baller1
02-17-2011, 04:04 PM
Nothing else to say about it. I'd just prefer you not make an ******* of yourself by spewing nonsense and putting words into people's mouths.

Is that simple enough for you to understand?

No it's not, do you mind elaborating?

godolphins
02-17-2011, 04:24 PM
As of now
1 Lebron
2 Howard
3 Rose

haggis
02-17-2011, 04:44 PM
From Bill Simmons article yesterday:


Derrick Rose:I still have him as the MVP. If you disagree, go look at the standings, try to find me 10 games in which Carlos Boozer and Joakim Noah played together, then watch Keith Bogans play for 10 minutes. Derrick Rose did more for that team through the first 50 games than anyone else did for their team; doesn't make him the best player, just the most valuable

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100208/two

justinnum1
02-17-2011, 04:47 PM
As of now
1 Lebron
2 Howard
3 Rose

Yep.

Cool007
02-17-2011, 04:50 PM
From Bill Simmons article yesterday:



http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100208/two


Yep.


Yep, I agree.

Cubs Win
02-17-2011, 05:50 PM
I know so much more about basketball than you it's ridiculous. Your crush on me is getting pretty ridiculous.

You mean because I tell someone not to pay attention to you? I haven't ever seen you make a post showing basketball knowledge. It's usually something just like your post I quoted and just trying to make yourself seem smarter. You certainly like to pay a lot of attention to posters that support D-Rose. :eyebrow:

D Roses Bulls
02-17-2011, 08:28 PM
:laugh2:

Now Bulls fans are trying to discredit LeBron by anointing Wade as an equal. It never fails...

Wade is the second best player in the NBA right now, but that doesn't mean he's on LeBron's level. That man is on a level of his own.

this coming from a guy with a westbrook>rose sig :eyebrow:

tredigs
02-17-2011, 08:41 PM
this coming from a guy with a westbrook>rose sig :eyebrow:

And "lol" at you thinking that's not a fair argument. Both have their own facets of the game that they excel at more so than the other, but their skill level and overall impact on the game is virtually identical at this point. If anyone thinks that one of the two is head and shoulders above the other, they either don't watch the two play, don't care about stats (especially the far more telling advanced stats), or are simply homers.

Edit: Westbrook and D. Rose's numbers:



Player Season Age Tm Lg G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48

'Brook 10-11 22 OKC NBA 54 1925 23.9 .539 .450 5.4 10.8 8.2 43.7 2.6 0.9 15.7 31.1 111 108 4.6 1.8 6.4 0.160

Rose 10-11 22 CHI NBA 52 1974 22.8 .540 .484 3.1 10.2 6.7 40.5 1.4 1.3 13.5 31.6 110 103 4.6 3.1 7.7 0.187

D Roses Bulls
02-17-2011, 09:10 PM
And "lol" at you thinking that's not a fair argument. Both have their own facets of the game that they excel at more so than the other, but their skill level and overall impact on the game is virtually identical at this point. If anyone thinks that one of the two is head and shoulders above the other, they either don't watch the two play, don't care about stats (especially the far more telling advanced stats), or are simply homers.

Edit: Westbrook and D. Rose's numbers:



Player Season Age Tm Lg G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48

'Brook 10-11 22 OKC NBA 54 1925 23.9 .539 .450 5.4 10.8 8.2 43.7 2.6 0.9 15.7 31.1 111 108 4.6 1.8 6.4 0.160

Rose 10-11 22 CHI NBA 52 1974 22.8 .540 .484 3.1 10.2 6.7 40.5 1.4 1.3 13.5 31.6 110 103 4.6 3.1 7.7 0.187



you have a lot to learn about the game. it's funny, the same people that say all some people do is look at box scores and stats are the same people using box scores and stats. if westbrook was so good and plays along side durrant then how come they dont have a better record? i mean i think i heard the other days that westbrooks PER was 8th best in the NBA. then i guess he is the 8th best player in the league according to some of you :rolleyes:

ManRam
02-17-2011, 09:18 PM
D Rose, can you just admit that you only discredit PER because it doesn't suggest that Rose is as elite as some (Bulls fans especially) think. You'd sing a different tune if he was a high PER player. I'm positive of that.

Hustlenomics
02-17-2011, 09:19 PM
:laugh2:

Dude, calm down. :laugh2:

:laugh2:

justinnum1
02-17-2011, 09:27 PM
D Rose, can you just admit that you only discredit PER because it doesn't suggest that Rose is as elite as some (Bulls fans especially) think. You'd sing a different tune if he was a high PER player. I'm positive of that.

Of course he would.

Baller1
02-17-2011, 11:37 PM
this coming from a guy with a westbrook>rose sig :eyebrow:

And it will remain there.

That really has nothing to do with my knowledge of the game, but if that's your pathetic excuse to discredit my posts, then so be it.

Baller1
02-17-2011, 11:39 PM
you have a lot to learn about the game. it's funny, the same people that say all some people do is look at box scores and stats are the same people using box scores and stats. if westbrook was so good and plays along side durrant then how come they dont have a better record? i mean i think i heard the other days that westbrooks PER was 8th best in the NBA. then i guess he is the 8th best player in the league according to some of you :rolleyes:

You telling Digs that he has a lot to learn about the game could quite possibly be the most ironic thing I've ever read on this site. :laugh2:

JB0B0
02-17-2011, 11:42 PM
Rose - 42 points, 8 assists, 5 rebounds, 1 block on 18-28 shooting in a win over the best team in the NBA. MVP!

fin_frenzy_84
02-17-2011, 11:42 PM
As of now
1 Lebron
2 Howard
3 Rose

Haha howard over rose? GTFO After tonight Rose is leading!

DaBear
02-17-2011, 11:44 PM
Rose is the clear #1 going into the All Star break.

JB0B0
02-17-2011, 11:45 PM
The Bulls are 4-4 against the top teams in the NBA, Miami 1-6. You have to beat the good teams to be MVP. Rose over LeBron for MVP at this point.

JordansBulls
02-17-2011, 11:52 PM
1. Rose
2. Dwight
3. Durant
4. Lebron/Wade

SteBO
02-17-2011, 11:54 PM
The Bulls are 4-4 against the top teams in the NBA, Miami 1-6. You have to beat the good teams to be MVP. Rose over LeBron for MVP at this point.
Actually, that isn't anywhere near the main criteria for MVP. If you're going to use that, then I guess I can use road records. Miami on road: 21-10, CHI: 13-12. Rose is definitely MVP worthy, but that's not a legit argument. Stats factor in, as well as better records.

godolphins
02-17-2011, 11:57 PM
Like posted in the Derrick Rose thread:
Lebron second best game this month was better than(Rose game tonight) that at 41 points 13 Reb and 8 assists his best game this month was 51 points 11 rebs and 8 assists against a top D defense

MVP as of now is still Lebron

JordansBulls
02-17-2011, 11:59 PM
Like posted in the Derrick Rose thread:
Lebron second best game this month was better than(Rose game tonight) that at 41 points 13 Reb and 8 assists his best game this month was 51 points 11 rebs and 8 assists against a top D defense

MVP as of now is still Lebron

Actually Lebron isn't, not when you got a guy with a 25+ PER on your team as well.

DaBear
02-17-2011, 11:59 PM
Like posted in the Derrick Rose thread:
Lebron second best game this month was better than(Rose game tonight) that at 41 points 13 Reb and 8 assists his best game this month was 51 points 11 rebs and 8 assists against a top D defense

MVP as of now is still Lebron

1-6, and playing alongside Wade.
MVP goes to Rose

DaBear
02-18-2011, 12:00 AM
Actually, that isn't anywhere near the main criteria for MVP. If you're going to use that, then I guess I can use road records. Miami on road: 21-10, CHI: 13-12. Rose is definitely MVP worthy, but that's not a legit argument. Stats factor in, as well as better records.

So do injuries. Oh wait, Rose has an advantage there too.

Doogolas
02-18-2011, 12:01 AM
Like posted in the Derrick Rose thread:
Lebron second best game this month was better than(Rose game tonight) that at 41 points 13 Reb and 8 assists his best game this month was 51 points 11 rebs and 8 assists against a top D defense

MVP as of now is still Lebron

Rose doesn't have the distraction of Wade to open up the floor for LeBron. Rose has us 2 games behind the Heat and only one in the loss column. Rose has actually managed to beat good teams. LeBron has Wade to keep constant double teams, even triple teams on him, hasn't beaten the best teams in the league and doesn't have his team with a significantly better record than Rose has his at.

SteBO
02-18-2011, 12:01 AM
So do injuries. Oh wait, Rose has an advantage there too.
Injuries I will give you. No arguments there.

DROSE4MVP
02-18-2011, 12:01 AM
Like posted in the Derrick Rose thread:
Lebron second best game this month was better than(Rose game tonight) that at 41 points 13 Reb and 8 assists his best game this month was 51 points 11 rebs and 8 assists against a top D defense

MVP as of now is still Lebron

Top D? What do you call the Spurs defense?

MJ-BULLS
02-18-2011, 12:01 AM
Rose doesn't have the distraction of Wade to open up the floor for LeBron. Rose has us 2 games behind the Heat and only one in the loss column. Rose has actually managed to beat good teams. LeBron has Wade to keep constant double teams, even triple teams on him, hasn't beaten the best teams in the league and doesn't have his team with a significantly better record than Rose has his at.

good post right here.

northsider
02-18-2011, 12:04 AM
I think the sad part of all of this is no matter who wins it people won't satisfied and just admit the guy who wins it had an amazing year. If Bron wins it haters will say he didn't deserve it if Rose wins it people will say he didn't deserve it(other guys are in the race as well but you get the point)

It really is sad that kids now a days can't just appreciate good basketball. At the end of the day you guys aren't the voters and those are the only opinions and things that matters sadly enough.

fin_frenzy_84
02-18-2011, 12:04 AM
Like posted in the Derrick Rose thread:
Lebron second best game this month was better than(Rose game tonight) that at 41 points 13 Reb and 8 assists his best game this month was 51 points 11 rebs and 8 assists against a top D defense

MVP as of now is still Lebron

Nah...

Rose MVP!!!

Let the haters hate!

killbumdeluxe13
02-18-2011, 12:09 AM
It depends on how you look at MVP. If its strictly by numbers Lebron is the clear cut favorite. However if you look at it as who is most valuable to his teams success i think Rose beats out lebron. You take Lebron off the heat, they clearly arent as good but theyd still have Wade and Bosh and would be a playoff team or at least above .500. You take Rose off the Bulls and I would be very surprised if they managed a winning record.

godolphins
02-18-2011, 12:14 AM
Rose doesn't have the distraction of Wade to open up the floor for LeBron. Rose has us 2 games behind the Heat and only one in the loss column. Rose has actually managed to beat good teams. LeBron has Wade to keep constant double teams, even triple teams on him, hasn't beaten the best teams in the league and doesn't have his team with a significantly better record than Rose has his at.

Did they beat Boston and Dallas?

Doogolas
02-18-2011, 12:15 AM
Did they beat Boston and Dallas?

Yes. Why?

Literally the only teams the Bulls haven't beaten yet are the Knicks and the Hawks.

killbumdeluxe13
02-18-2011, 12:17 AM
Yes. Why?

Literally the only teams the Bulls haven't beaten yet are the Knicks and the Hawks.

havent had a chance to play the hawks yet. otherwise they have victories against every top 10 team.

Doogolas
02-18-2011, 12:19 AM
I know they haven't played the Hawks. But assuming victory is always stupid.

godolphins
02-18-2011, 12:19 AM
1-6, and playing alongside Wade.
MVP goes to Rose

Let disregard Orlando and OKC as being a top team and six of those loss only came against three teams Boston(3) Dallas(2 who always own us during the regular season) and the Bulls(1 who beat us without our best player and Bosh in the 4th)

Doogolas
02-18-2011, 12:23 AM
Let disregard Orlando and OKC as being a top team and six of those loss only came against three teams Boston(3) Dallas(2 who always own us during the regular season) and the Bulls(1 who beat us without our best player and Bosh in the 4th)

You can't just disregard losses. Or can the Bulls just disregard their first 8 losses since they didn't have Boozer?

A loss is a loss. They all count the same. And nobody has any idea how that game goes with LeBron. Because it's a 100% different game.

stawka
02-18-2011, 12:24 AM
I don't give a **** what stat says what, I'm gonna come out here and say Derrick Rose = Iverson! I can't stand "PG's" who shoot first, just pull an Iverson and play SG, and let your team get a decent PG and that's it.

Doogolas
02-18-2011, 12:26 AM
Rose only shoots first because he has to. He's absolutely nothing like Allen Iverson.

Bullsfan22
02-18-2011, 12:27 AM
i don't give a **** what stat says what, i'm gonna come out here and say derrick rose = iverson! I can't stand "pg's" who shoot first, just pull an iverson and play sg, and let your team get a decent pg and that's it.

lol.

MJ-BULLS
02-18-2011, 12:29 AM
I don't give a **** what stat says what, I'm gonna come out here and say Derrick Rose = Iverson! I can't stand "PG's" who shoot first, just pull an Iverson and play SG, and let your team get a decent PG and that's it.

wow are you serious.

Rose is a completely different player than iverson was, just because he takes alot of shots like iverson doesn't mean they are the same.

godolphins
02-18-2011, 12:33 AM
You can't just disregard losses. Or can the Bulls just disregard their first 8 losses since they didn't have Boozer?

A loss is a loss. They all count the same. And nobody has any idea how that game goes with LeBron. Because it's a 100% different game.
I meant that sarcastically since you said the Heat are 1-6 against top teams I just assumed you were talking about the three games against Boston, two against the Mavs, one against the Bulls and the other against LA while the Heat are 2-1 against Orlando and 1-0 against OKC

SteBO
02-18-2011, 12:36 AM
^Don't forget about the two-time champs.

ChI_ShIzzLe
02-18-2011, 12:45 AM
Funny how all Heat fans won't back off Lebron as MVP when almost all the sports analysts including ESPN Lebron **** riders Jalen Rose and Tim Legler jumped on the D-Rose bandwagon and said he is the first half MVP.

footballer2369
02-18-2011, 12:58 AM
Funny how all Heat fans won't back off Lebron as MVP when almost all the sports analysts including ESPN Lebron **** riders Jalen Rose and Tim Legler jumped on the D-Rose bandwagon and said he is the first half MVP.

When will Bulls fans realize that figureheads on TV have one job, and that is to get ratings?

Two guys' opinions (and guys who don't vote on the award) are not really all that relevant anyway. I bet you can find nearly as many who believe it's Lebron anyway- including JVG and Breen.

JordansBulls
02-18-2011, 12:58 AM
Let disregard Orlando and OKC as being a top team and six of those loss only came against three teams Boston(3) Dallas(2 who always own us during the regular season) and the Bulls(1 who beat us without our best player and Bosh in the 4th)

Wade played. He is the proven winner and shows up when it matters most. And played the best anyone has ever played against the Celtics last year.

footballer2369
02-18-2011, 01:07 AM
JB, you cannot be this obtuse.

godolphins
02-18-2011, 01:20 AM
Wade played. He is the proven winner and shows up when it matters most. And played the best anyone has ever played against the Celtics last year.

Since you love stats so much JB go calculate how many points Lebron would've score against the Bulls we both know that the big three are the only major scores for the Heat and without one or two of them the Heat are not as effective on offense. Here's an example from this week: Miami score 108 points vs the Pacers and 90 of those points came from the big three while 18 points came from the rest of the team

Raph12
02-18-2011, 01:24 AM
Haha howard over rose? GTFO After tonight Rose is leading!

Funny you laugh at Dwight over Rose, then say "after tonight Rose is leading" lol, I guess one game means more than Dwight avging 25-15-1.5-1.5-3 since the new year began. :rolleyes:

Take your homer goggles off for a sec and know that Dwight's been playing better ball this season than anyone not named Lebron James... And he does it with the least help of any Top 5 team in either conference.

Albrecht Duerer
02-18-2011, 01:29 AM
Funny you laugh at Dwight over Rose, then say "after tonight Rose is leading" lol, I guess one game means more than Dwight avging 25-15-1.5-1.5-3 since the new year began. :rolleyes:

Take your homer goggles off for a sec and know that Dwight's been playing better ball this season than anyone not named Lebron James... And he does it with the least help of any Top 5 team in either conference.

This coming from a guy who says Wall is a better PG than Rose.

Raph12
02-18-2011, 01:37 AM
This coming from a guy who says Wall is a better PG than Rose.

He is, Rose is a better player, but Wall is the better PG...

Plus, do you really want to compare Rose to Dwight lol?

Bullsfan22
02-18-2011, 01:39 AM
It's funny how Howard has no help all the sudden. Howard carries the Magics on the defensive end. As far as the offensive end he has just about as good as a supporting cast you can ask for as a superstar. Teams make a decision to either cover him one on one and try to shut down his shooters or double him. Recently teams have decided to cover him one on one and he's been putting up monster stats. Not trying to discredit what he's done and he's a big MVP candidate, but to say he has little help is down right crazy.

DaBear
02-18-2011, 01:42 AM
Funny you laugh at Dwight over Rose, then say "after tonight Rose is leading" lol, I guess one game means more than Dwight avging 25-15-1.5-1.5-3 since the new year began. :rolleyes:

Take your homer goggles off for a sec and know that Dwight's been playing better ball this season than anyone not named Lebron James... And he does it with the least help of any Top 5 team in either conference.

Take your homer goggles off. Don't act like Dwight has no help. This is essentially the same team that was in the Finals and the ECF last year. Rose has played with an injured Bulls team the entire year, and still has his team ahead of Dwight's team.

DaBear
02-18-2011, 01:44 AM
Let disregard Orlando and OKC as being a top team and six of those loss only came against three teams Boston(3) Dallas(2 who always own us during the regular season) and the Bulls(1 who beat us without our best player and Bosh in the 4th)

Boston, Dallas, Chicago > OKC, Orlando

And nice job making excuses for the Bulls game. We didn't have Noah for the entire game.

Raph12
02-18-2011, 01:44 AM
It's funny how Howard has no help all the sudden. Howard carries the Magics on the defensive end. As far as the offensive end he has just about as good as a supporting cast you can ask for as a superstar. Teams make a decision to either cover him one one and try to shut down his shooters or double him. Recently teams have decided to cover him one on one and he's been putting up monster stats. Not trying to discredit what he's done and he's a big MVP candidate, but to say he has little help is down right crazy.

Right because while Rose has Boozer-Noah-Deng, Lebron has Wade-Bosh, Kobe has Gasol-Odom-Bynum, Durant has Westbrook-Green, etc... Dwight has JRich-Nelson-Turk lol.

GREAT HELP!

Bullsfan22
02-18-2011, 01:47 AM
NBA MVP thread, where fans are willing to undermine their teams talent to make their mvp candidate seem like Jesus on a basketball court.

Raph12
02-18-2011, 01:49 AM
Bulls fans don't forget we spanked your sorry ***** by about 30 in your home while we were on the 2nd of a b2b. Just because you won one game against us, which you guys were shittin your pants about prior to tipoff (I was there in the forum with you guys), doesn't make you better than us... You guys have had the 3rd easiest schedule in the league, wait for the 2nd part of the year and get back at me in April.

knightstemplar
02-18-2011, 01:49 AM
rose will probally win the mvp.....
during the offseason when he said "why cant i be mvp", i thought he was crazy and had no chance, but lots has changed

knightstemplar
02-18-2011, 01:52 AM
He is, Rose is a better player, but Wall is the better PG...

Plus, do you really want to compare Rose to Dwight lol?

:facepalm:

JB0B0
02-18-2011, 02:02 AM
People like to undermine Rose because of his ability to score in bunches. However, they fail to acknowledge his ability to carry his team to victory more often than not, which is why the Bulls sit at 38-16. Oh, and we only had Noah and Booz together for several games.

Cubs Win
02-18-2011, 02:02 AM
Bulls fans don't forget we spanked your sorry ***** by about 30 in your home while we were on the 2nd of a b2b. Just because you won one game against us, which you guys were shittin your pants about prior to tipoff (I was there in the forum with you guys), doesn't make you better than us... You guys have had the 3rd easiest schedule in the league, wait for the 2nd part of the year and get back at me in April.

You mean in Boozer's first game back, when everyone was trying to mesh? Yeah, it's not easy adding another all-star caliber player into the line-up. You'd think a Magic fan, if anyone, would know about that with your trade this year. :facepalm:

You seem awfully mad, sir.

ChI_ShIzzLe
02-18-2011, 02:19 AM
You mean in Boozer's first game back, when everyone was trying to mesh? Yeah, it's not easy adding another all-star caliber player into the line-up. You'd think a Magic fan, if anyone, would know about that with your trade this year. :facepalm:

You seem awfully mad, sir.

lol. ya, HE MAD.

Sadds The Gr8
02-18-2011, 02:30 AM
lol. ya, HE MAD.

lmao

kobe24>lebron23
02-18-2011, 02:30 AM
It's

Rose



Dwight

Everyone else!

Sox Appeal
02-18-2011, 02:31 AM
It's

Rose



Dwight

Everyone else!

Having that big of a gap between Rose and everyone else is ridiculous. Also, where is LeBron? What exactly is the case for Dwight over him, at this point?

kobe24>lebron23
02-18-2011, 03:14 AM
Having that big of a gap between Rose and everyone else is ridiculous. Also, where is LeBron? What exactly is the case for Dwight over him, at this point?

I just find Dwight more valuable to his team... Especially on the defensive side of the ball!

Better yet what's the case for Lebron over wade?

Raph12
02-18-2011, 04:05 AM
For the Bulls fans saying, I'm "mad", you know as well as I do that if there is any team out there that scares the **** outta you guys, it's us... We spanked you in that first game in Chitown on the 2nd of a b2b, and we kept in a game that we shouldn't have been in the first place the second go-around.

Dwight's outstanding play had been what kept us in that second game (40pts-15rbs-2asts-4stls-3blks), the rest of the team went 18-58 (31.0%) from the floor, doubt we shoot that poorly in 4 of 7 games. Plus with Deng going off with 24pts in the second half (game high 26pts) and us doubling Boozer like idiots instead of just putting Dwight on him like we did in the 4th, we didn't really stand a chance.

If we play you guys in the playoffs, which doesn't seem likely unless Boston or Miami dropoff significantly, I definitely like our chances.

nshush
02-18-2011, 04:32 AM
LeBron James is the MVP, hands down, pants down. Rose scores a 40 and bulls fans celebrate like they won championship. LeBron has a 51/13/8 game and I just yawn. It's such of a normal thing for LeBron that people look at it and think like oh yeah it's ****ing LeBron James we are talking about, so why surprise?

nshush
02-18-2011, 04:35 AM
It's

Rose



Dwight

Everyone else!


I feel bad for you man. Your username will NEVER let people to take your words seriously.

Kyben36
02-18-2011, 04:59 AM
I realy think it should be between Rose Dwight, arguably amare, a name I want to throw out is LMarcus Aldridge. without him, where whould that team be ??? Throw KObe/Gasol ( one not both ) Into the mix. I think these should be the only names on the list.

I have how everyone says lebron, but MVP doesnt mean best player in the league, its the most valuable. James value was shot when he joined a team with the 2nd best player in the league. without lebron, that teams record is still probably top 4 in the east. without Rose, I dont think the bulls are half the team they are, without Dwight, im not sure how the Magic would be, without Amare, the Knicks where not very good last year, and with him they are alot better, Without Lamarcus's great play, the Blazers are a terrible team. I think these are the guys who realy deserve credit.

now, is it clear that Lebron was by far the most valuable player in the league when with the Cavs, Hell yes, but that is the past, this is the now.

Hawkize31
02-18-2011, 05:23 AM
LeBron is the MVP, even if Rose has a noteworthy game once in a blue moon. We get it, Bron has Wade. And more talent around him. Also has a better team. Also is a better player. Also is more valuable to a franchise than Rose is.

W/e though, I think the fact that 90% of the people who think Rose is MVP are Bulls fans is a coincidence.

Edit: And if we really want to discuss value...how much more money does Lebron bring in to the Heat. Now their games are the hottest thing on TV, the jersey sales have skyrocketed, and the most hated player is also the one people want to see more than any other. Pretty valuable imo.

Baller1
02-18-2011, 05:24 AM
The NBA Forum has hit an all-time low. The stupidity displayed on a daily basis gets exponentially more embarrassing everyday in this forum.

The fact that Rose is regarded as a more valuable player than the best player on the planet is embarrassing.

Hawkize31
02-18-2011, 05:28 AM
The NBA Forum has hit an all-time low. The stupidity displayed on a daily basis gets exponentially more embarrassing everyday in this forum.

The fact that Rose is regarded as a more valuable player than the best player on the planet is embarrassing.

I know. Its sad. They want to twist the definition of the term "valuable" until it fits the player they want it to fit.

abe_froman
02-18-2011, 05:37 AM
if/when he wins it,how many of you are going to actually cry and throw a temper tantrum

..seriously, show of hands now

i mean some of you are taking it all way to personally.i mean outside of clevelanders reaction to lebron leaving,i havent seen another player ever get such a visceral reaction out of a group of fans.you take any praise and success so personally.seriously if its hurting you this much,pissing you off this much as you act like it does.i suggest stop watching basketball for about 10-15 years because the kid is good,he isnt going away.this probably wont be the last mvp race discussion he'll be part of

nshush
02-18-2011, 05:40 AM
The NBA Forum has hit an all-time low. The stupidity displayed on a daily basis gets exponentially more embarrassing everyday in this forum.

The fact that Rose is regarded as a more valuable player than the best player on the planet is embarrassing.

Well, it's mostly the bulls fans. 99% Neutral fans say LeBron despite being hated like no one.

kingbrentg
02-18-2011, 05:41 AM
I guess you should be talking to more than just the NBA forum then. Because there's a large number of reporters and players supporting the same cause. Just because it's not your opinion doesn't make it stupid or embarrassing.

And it's hardly twisting the meaning of the word "valuable", when "valuable" is defined as exactly what Rose has been.

I don't think anyone is a hands down MVP right now. Rose, Howard, and LeBron all have solid cases. I'm not going to call people stupid for thinking one way or another.

Minimal
02-18-2011, 08:08 AM
Well Rose made a case with last game and as I thought Bulls won.

I would say its a draw between Rose and LeBron right now and Howard a bit behind.

LeBron in last 10 games has
.528 FG% 8.0 RPG 8.0 APG 0.9 BPG 1.9 SPG 25.8 PPG

and he doesn't need 20.2 FGA to score 24.9 PPG.

Doogolas
02-18-2011, 08:51 AM
Well Rose made a case with last game and as I thought Bulls won.
(By my calculations Bulls had 68% chance of winning)

I would say its a draw between Rose and LeBron right now and Howard a bit behind.

LeBron in last 10 games has
.528 FG% 8.0 RPG 8.0 APG 0.9 BPG 1.9 SPG 25.8 PPG

and he doesn't need 20.2 FGA to score 24.9 PPG.

Interesting Complisult.

D1JM
02-18-2011, 09:37 AM
I guess the stupidity of PSD is going around the NBA because a lot of writers are giving rose the pre-allstar MVP. I just didn't know the level of stupidity was measured by a diverging presupposition.

chitown815
02-18-2011, 10:14 AM
its rose, look at injuries and, what elite team have the heat beat? Rose goes out there and plays Lebron holds his arm every play and says that smaller guy tapped me, but when your personality tells you to run to wades nips in the first place, I guess thats who you are

SteBO
02-18-2011, 10:15 AM
its rose, look at injuries and, what elite team have the heat beat? Rose goes out there and plays Lebron holds his arm every play and says that smaller guy tapped me, but when your personality tells you to run to wades nips in the first place, I guess thats who you are

:facepalm: You can't be serious with your last sentence, can you?

Minimal
02-18-2011, 10:42 AM
its rose, look at injuries and, what elite team have the heat beat? Rose goes out there and plays Lebron holds his arm every play and says that smaller guy tapped me, but when your personality tells you to run to wades nips in the first place, I guess thats who you are
There are some brains for sale in your nearest store.

jtsunami
02-18-2011, 10:46 AM
:facepalm: You can't be serious with your last sentence, can you?

:laugh2: You mean the run on sentence that actually should have 2+ sentences? I wish people would learn the English language.

SteBO
02-18-2011, 10:47 AM
:laugh2: You mean the run on sentence that actually should have 2+ sentences? I wish people would learn the English language.

:laugh2: Touche

kingbrentg
02-18-2011, 10:48 AM
The are some brains for sale in your nearest store.

Oh, irony.

:laugh2:

justinnum1
02-18-2011, 11:11 AM
There are some brains for sale in your nearest store.

lol

godolphins
02-18-2011, 11:15 AM
Boston, Dallas, Chicago > OKC, Orlando

And nice job making excuses for the Bulls game. We didn't have Noah for the entire game.
Um...... The difference is Lebron is one of the best players in the planet

Cool007
02-18-2011, 11:36 AM
Let's make this clear. There are 3 top guys running for MVP and not just 2 and Dwight is very close as well.

Right now Rose is in the lead but only by a hair. Followed by LeBron/Dirk/Dwight in that order.

The main reason Dwight is a bit behind is NOT because he hasn't been SPECTACULAR but it's because of the inconsistency of that Magic team as well as their seeding and not so great record.

chicago lulz
02-18-2011, 12:21 PM
There are some brains for sale in your nearest store.
Last edited by Minimal; Today at 08:55 AM


Oh, irony.

:laugh2:

lolol...classic

Minimal
02-18-2011, 12:34 PM
Last edited by Minimal; Today at 08:55 AM



lolol...classic
So I made a mistake while typing, and?

TheGiantYankee
02-18-2011, 01:14 PM
So I made a mistake while typing, and?

You were making fun of someone's intelligence with an awful comeback or joke (Whatever that mess was) even though you cannot type proper English.

Minimal
02-18-2011, 01:22 PM
You were making fun of someone's intelligence with an awful comeback or joke (Whatever that mess was) even though you cannot type proper English.
So I forgot to add "re", because of fast typing, that means I can't type proper English? Get lost.

its rose, look at injuries and, what elite team have the heat beat? Rose goes out there and plays Lebron holds his arm every play and says that smaller guy tapped me, but when your personality tells you to run to wades nips in the first place, I guess thats who you are
I guess that's what you call proper English.

J-Relo
02-18-2011, 01:53 PM
Wade played. He is the proven winner and shows up when it matters most. And played the best anyone has ever played against the Celtics last year.

Did Arroyo play, cause he's clearly their best player?

footballer2369
02-18-2011, 01:54 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-110215/nba-awards-watch

Unfortunately, Bulls fans, Rose is not so consensus. But, I guess perception is reality.

chicago lulz
02-18-2011, 02:00 PM
So I made a mistake while typing, and?

Well you were making an attempt to belittle someone's intelligence. I would think you would be a little more careful with your post as you were trying to prove a point. Your inability to add the 're' kind of compromised the point you were trying to make.



http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-110215/nba-awards-watch

Unfortunately, Bulls fans, Rose is not so consensus. But, I guess perception is reality.
And yet Heat fans were harping when Rose was number on that list...or is this just another attempt at using "Bulls" reasoning for MVP race?

footballer2369
02-18-2011, 02:05 PM
And yet Heat fans were harping when Rose was number on that list...or is this just another attempt at using "Bulls" reasoning for MVP race?

Why are Bulls fans always trying to turn the table? I was responding to the parrots in this thread who keep claiming that everyone has Rose as midseason MVP (oops, they forgot the main sports outlet in the world).

Take my response for what it was and stop trying to change the subject on me (I know it's not you always- I find that this is the go-to argument technique amongst Rose supporters).

chicago lulz
02-18-2011, 02:13 PM
Why are Bulls fans always trying to turn the table? I was responding to the parrots in this thread who keep claiming that everyone has Rose as midseason MVP (oops, they forgot the main sports outlet in the world).

Take my response for what it was and stop trying to change the subject on me (I know it's not you always- I find that this is the go-to argument technique amongst Rose supporters).

I just had to get in a little jab, since Heat fans were complaining when Rose was number one on that list. And, it's not like Heat fans don't turn the table as well. It goes both ways.

But if it's a response to Bulls fans continuously saying that everyone has Rose as midseason MVP, then fair enough. That's deserved.

For the record, I wasn't trying to argue for Rose, more so some Heat fans (not you particularly because your posts do have substance).

Cubs Win
02-18-2011, 02:17 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-110215/nba-awards-watch

Unfortunately, Bulls fans, Rose is not so consensus. But, I guess perception is reality.

That was already posted on the first page of this thread. :eyebrow:

Minimal
02-18-2011, 02:20 PM
I just had to get in a little jab, since Heat fans were complaining when Rose was number one on that list. And, it's not like Heat fans don't turn the table as well. It goes both ways.

But if it's a response to Bulls fans continuously saying that everyone has Rose as midseason MVP, then fair enough. That's deserved.

For the record, I wasn't trying to argue for Rose, more so some Heat fans (not you particularly because your posts do have substance).
Those NBA.com and ESPN MVP lists are ********, and if one Miami fan posts a link of that mvp list, that doesn't mean that all Miami fans support that list.

D1JM
02-18-2011, 03:08 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-110215/nba-awards-watch

Unfortunately, Bulls fans, Rose is not so consensus. But, I guess perception is reality.

So you just want to use it when lebron is on top?

kobe24>lebron23
02-18-2011, 03:24 PM
I feel bad for you man. Your username will NEVER let people to take your words seriously.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion you know!
Not everyone is sucking on Lebron dick lol even espn is now saying rose should be MVP!
Would it make u feel better if I put
1.rose
2.Dwight
3.then everyone else!

kobe24>lebron23
02-18-2011, 03:27 PM
Let's make this clear. There are 3 top guys running for MVP and not just 2 and Dwight is very close as well.

Right now Rose is in the lead but only by a hair. Followed by LeBron/Dirk/Dwight in that order.

The main reason Dwight is a bit behind is NOT because he hasn't been SPECTACULAR but it's because of the inconsistency of that Magic team as well as their seeding and not so great record.

Dirk ahead of Dwight? No!

kobe24>lebron23
02-18-2011, 03:30 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-110215/nba-awards-watch

Unfortunately, Bulls fans, Rose is not so consensus. But, I guess perception is reality.

That list is a joke Westbrook ahead of durant Chris Paul 9th?? Lol

thekmp211
02-18-2011, 04:31 PM
yeah please dont reference awards watch like it means anything at all.

dwight is my guy at the moment. incredible season, and the magic would be a lottery team if he was replaced with an average center. he has answered a lot of my doubts this year.

dhopisthename
02-18-2011, 04:34 PM
wow when did rose jump up like 20 votes. Last night really helped rose' cause.

footballer2369
02-18-2011, 04:36 PM
Humorous that when stats and rankings suit Rose, they're used, but when they don't they're garbage.

@kmp211 Dwight's team is a 4th seed and he doesn't even have the best numbers in the league.

thekmp211
02-18-2011, 04:40 PM
Humorous that when stats and rankings suit Rose, they're used, but when they don't they're garbage.

@kmp211 Dwight's team is a 4th seed and he doesn't even have the best numbers in the league.

they should be a tenth seed. his offensive stats are top 5, and he is the best defensive player by a mile in the MVP hunt. you have to consider the effect he has on that side of the ball. i couldn't even name you one plus defender on the magic besides dwight.

footballer2369
02-18-2011, 04:45 PM
they should be a tenth seed. his offensive stats are top 5, and he is the best defensive player by a mile in the MVP hunt. you have to consider the effect he has on that side of the ball. i couldn't even name you one plus defender on the magic besides dwight.

I don't see it over Lebron...

D Roses Bulls
02-18-2011, 05:17 PM
Humorous that when stats and rankings suit Rose, they're used, but when they don't they're garbage.

@kmp211 Dwight's team is a 4th seed and he doesn't even have the best numbers in the league.

I know you are nor any heat fan are talkin about using certain points when it suits rose when you guys do that more then any other fan base on this site.

thekmp211
02-18-2011, 05:20 PM
I don't see it over Lebron...

i'd tend to agree. but if the magic can leapfrog back into the top three, i think you have to give dwight a hard look.

footballer2369
02-18-2011, 05:25 PM
I know you are nor any heat fan are talkin about using certain points when it suits rose when you guys do that more then any other fan base on this site.

I use all inclusive stats and overall records, while you pick and choose stats when you choose.

For example, my arguments consist of winshares, PER, and record, while I have seen you say the following in Rose arguments:

1. Rose over Paul because Rose has higher PPG.
2. Rose over anyone because he's top two in two major statistical categories (LOL)
3. Rose because of injuries.
4. Rose because Lebron has Wade and Wade is better.
5. Rose because the Heat were supposed to be great and they aren't as great as people said.
6. Rose because they're almost as good as the Heat.
7. Rose over Lebron because John Hollinger is an idiot and Ric Bucher/Charles Barkley thinks so.

footballer2369
02-18-2011, 05:26 PM
i'd tend to agree. but if the magic can leapfrog back into the top three, i think you have to give dwight a hard look.

No doubt.

He's #2 for me.

Cubs Win
02-18-2011, 05:30 PM
I use all inclusive stats and overall records, while you pick and choose stats when you choose.

For example, my arguments consist of winshares, PER, and record, while I have seen you say the following in Rose arguments:

1. Rose over Paul because Rose has higher PPG.
2. Rose over anyone because he's top two in two major statistical categories (LOL)
3. Rose because of injuries.
4. Rose because Lebron has Wade and Wade is better.
5. Rose because the Heat were supposed to be great and they aren't as great as people said.
6. Rose because they're almost as good as the Heat.
7. Rose over Lebron because John Hollinger is an idiot and Ric Bucher/Charles Barkley thinks so.

You forgot the most important one:
Rose because he is more valuable to his team than LeBron is to his.

footballer2369
02-18-2011, 05:36 PM
You forgot the most important one:
Rose because he is more valuable to his team than LeBron is to his.

Can you quantify that with anything more than biased opinion?

JordansBulls
02-18-2011, 05:46 PM
Can you quantify that with anything more than biased opinion?

One team has two top 3 players in the league on it. One team has 3 of the top 4 PER leaders last year. One team has 3 allstars

Rose is the only allstar on his team. His 2nd best player missed nearly 20 games and his 3rd best player missed 30 games.

Not only that but the Heat were predicted to have the best record in the LEAGUE and are 5 games back. Not only that, but Lebron doesn't even have the best stats in the league. Yes he is leading in PER, but someone else is leading in Win Shares and Win Shares PER 48 minutes. So either he has to lead in all 3 of them or have the best record in the league with the talent he has on his team.

And then you have this



Bron - 26.1ppg, 7.4rpg, 7.3apg, 1.6spg, 0.6bpg, 3.7topg, .578TS%, .519eFG%, PER 26.5
Wade - 25.4ppg, 6.9pg, 4.3apg, 1.3spg, 1.0bpg, 3.2topg, .578TS%, .521eFG%, PER 26.5

There per 36 numbers are nearly indentical outside of assits!

Cubs Win
02-18-2011, 05:49 PM
One team has two top 3 players in the league on it. One team has 3 of the top 4 PER leaders last year. One team has 3 allstars

Rose is the only allstar on his team. His 2nd best player missed nearly 20 games and his 3rd best player missed 30 games.

Not only that but the Heat were predicted to have the best record in the LEAGUE and are 5 games back. Not only that, but Lebron doesn't even have the best stats in the league. Yes he is leading in PER, but someone else is leading in Win Shares and Win Shares PER 48 minutes. So either he has to lead in all 3 of them or have the best record in the league with the talent he has on his team.

And then you have this

Boom.

Doogolas
02-18-2011, 05:52 PM
Can you quantify that with anything more than biased opinion?

Yes. Dwyane Wade is capable of leading a group of scrubs to 45+ win seasons. Dwyane Wade + Bosh are perfectly capable of leading a team to a 50 win season.

Add in LeBron, they'll probably win 60 or so games this year. That's about a 10 win jump.

The Bulls without Rose would be, at the absolute best a .500 team, but I doubt even that given the injuries they've had and the fact that nobody else on the team can even handle the ball better than merely "OK".

The Bulls will likely win close to 60 games this year at the pace they're on.

Ergo, Rose is more valuable to the Bulls team than LeBron is to the Heat.

LeBron is the better player, and LeBron can lead scrubs to 50+ win seasons, he's done it regularly. One could even argue he can lead a team of scrubs to 60+ win seasons but that's not the point of this argument. Fact is, he is not on a team of scrubs anymore, he is on the Heat, a team with one Superstar and another great player plus some surprisingly solid role players. He is not leading that team to some Earth shattering record of awesomeness. He's leading them to somewhere around 60 wins. Something he can do with a bunch of scrubs.

So for me, he is not the MVP. He is the best player. He is outstanding at basketball, but not necessarily the MVP.

ramsizzle
02-18-2011, 05:54 PM
its simple you dont win MVP when someone else one your team is putting up eerily similar stats.

thekmp211
02-18-2011, 06:01 PM
why are bulls fans so quick to dismiss the effects of thibodeau and the fact that the bulls are the best defensive team in the league. does this haev nothing to do with their success?

Doogolas
02-18-2011, 06:09 PM
its simple you dont win MVP when someone else one your team is putting up eerily similar stats.


why are bulls fans so quick to dismiss the effects of thibodeau and the fact that the bulls are the best defensive team in the league. does this haev nothing to do with their success?

First of all, no Bulls fan dismisses this. We all love Thibs. He has a ton to do with our success. But is someone really going to make an argument that Thibs is even close to as good as an actual player? Wade is the guy being dismissed here more than anybody. Thibs has never been brought up. And if you don't believe me about Wade's insane dismissal, as JB pointed out (I can't believe he actually made a legitimately good point), look at LBJ and Wade's per 36 numbers, it's insane:


Rk Player Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 LeBron James 2010-11 26 54 54 2070 8.5 17.5 .485 1.2 3.4 .345 6.3 8.3 .761 0.9 6.1 7.0 6.9 1.5 0.6 3.5 1.9 24.5
2 Dwyane Wade 2010-11 29 52 52 1928 8.7 17.5 .497 0.8 2.6 .314 6.4 8.7 .737 1.6 5.0 6.7 4.2 1.3 1.0 3.1 2.5 24.6

And advanced stats:
ts%: .578 both of them
ORTG: 114 LBJ 113 Wade
DRTG: 101 each

They're terrifyingly similar this year.

As for Thibs, every Bulls fan loves him.

footballer2369
02-18-2011, 06:11 PM
Yes. Dwyane Wade is capable of leading a group of scrubs to 45+ win seasons. Dwyane Wade + Bosh are perfectly capable of leading a team to a 50 win season.

Add in LeBron, they'll probably win 60 or so games this year. That's about a 10 win jump.

The Bulls without Rose would be, at the absolute best a .500 team, but I doubt even that given the injuries they've had and the fact that nobody else on the team can even handle the ball better than merely "OK".

The Bulls will likely win close to 60 games this year at the pace they're on.

Ergo, Rose is more valuable to the Bulls team than LeBron is to the Heat.

LeBron is the better player, and LeBron can lead scrubs to 50+ win seasons, he's done it regularly. One could even argue he can lead a team of scrubs to 60+ win seasons but that's not the point of this argument. Fact is, he is not on a team of scrubs anymore, he is on the Heat, a team with one Superstar and another great player plus some surprisingly solid role players. He is not leading that team to some Earth shattering record of awesomeness. He's leading them to somewhere around 60 wins. Something he can do with a bunch of scrubs.

So for me, he is not the MVP. He is the best player. He is outstanding at basketball, but not necessarily the MVP.

The main flaw in your otherwise interesting argument is that you're dismissing the former Heat players as scrubs. JO and Beasley were legitimate contributors. Dorell Wright was good. Q Rich was decent. Haslem has been out.

So, sure you're adding in places, but you're subtracting in others. To claim that substituting D Rose or Dwight for a replacement level player would cause more of a drop in wins doesn't really have any kind of accuracy or base.


why are bulls fans so quick to dismiss the effects of thibodeau and the fact that the bulls are the best defensive team in the league. does this haev nothing to do with their success?

Nada. Rose has willed them to where they are now.

Minimal
02-18-2011, 06:15 PM
One team has two top 3 players in the league on it. One team has 3 of the top 4 PER leaders last year. One team has 3 allstars

Rose is the only allstar on his team. His 2nd best player missed nearly 20 games and his 3rd best player missed 30 games.

Not only that but the Heat were predicted to have the best record in the LEAGUE and are 5 games back. Not only that, but Lebron doesn't even have the best stats in the league. Yes he is leading in PER, but someone else is leading in Win Shares and Win Shares PER 48 minutes. So either he has to lead in all 3 of them or have the best record in the league with the talent he has on his team.

And then you have this
And then you have this :facepalm:

Cubs Win
02-18-2011, 06:17 PM
Nada. Rose has willed them to where they are now.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic. But Thibs, as Doogs said, has a lot to do with our success. He has implemented a defense that puts us as the best defense in the league.

Doogolas
02-18-2011, 06:18 PM
The main flaw in your otherwise interesting argument is that you're dismissing the former Heat players as scrubs. JO and Beasley were legitimate contributors. Dorell Wright was good. Q Rich was decent. Haslem has been out.

So, sure you're adding in places, but you're subtracting in others. To claim that substituting D Rose or Dwight for a replacement level player would cause more of a drop in wins doesn't really have any kind of accuracy or base.



Nada. Rose has willed them to where they are now.

Scrubs doesn't LITERALLY mean worthless players. It means guys that are no better than decent. It was a quick way to make the statement without having to say "nothing but mediocrity around him" twenty times in that one post. And in 08-09 Dorrell Wright played in 6 games. Q-Rich wasn't even there. O'Neil played 23 games. Beasley sucked balls his rookie year.

Wade brought that team 43 wins anyways. With a team of nothing but mediocre to ****** players. Same way LeBron brought 60 wins to a team with maybe one or two above average players and a bunch of worthless ***** around him in Cleveland.

And once again, no Bulls fan has ever said anything other than Thibs being an absolute badass mother****er.

I mean, the role players the Heat have RIGHT NOW are probably better than the guys on that team Wade had in 08-09. ****, only three ****ing people started more than 42 games. And Wade still managed to get 43 wins out of them.

thekmp211
02-18-2011, 07:29 PM
First of all, no Bulls fan dismisses this. We all love Thibs. He has a ton to do with our success. But is someone really going to make an argument that Thibs is even close to as good as an actual player? Wade is the guy being dismissed here more than anybody. Thibs has never been brought up. And if you don't believe me about Wade's insane dismissal, as JB pointed out (I can't believe he actually made a legitimately good point), look at LBJ and Wade's per 36 numbers, it's insane:


Rk Player Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 LeBron James 2010-11 26 54 54 2070 8.5 17.5 .485 1.2 3.4 .345 6.3 8.3 .761 0.9 6.1 7.0 6.9 1.5 0.6 3.5 1.9 24.5
2 Dwyane Wade 2010-11 29 52 52 1928 8.7 17.5 .497 0.8 2.6 .314 6.4 8.7 .737 1.6 5.0 6.7 4.2 1.3 1.0 3.1 2.5 24.6

And advanced stats:
ts%: .578 both of them
ORTG: 114 LBJ 113 Wade
DRTG: 101 each

They're terrifyingly similar this year.

As for Thibs, every Bulls fan loves him.


i understand that wade and lebron are having very similar years. i just don't think that's enough to discount what he means to that team offensively and defensively. value is value. it's not contingent on what's around you.

if you own 10 mercedes, your lamborghini is still just as valuable.

as for rose, if you want to argue his candidacy i don't think you can argue it over dwight. his team is worse and his dominance is more definite and balanced, imo.

flclfanman
02-18-2011, 07:31 PM
Looks like some of the guys on 790 the ticket (Miami Heat's Flagship Station) are giving Rose more support for MVP than LBJ after that Spurs game

http://www.790theticket.com/Episodes.aspx?PID=1205

the 2/18 show :nod:

Cubs Win
02-18-2011, 07:40 PM
i understand that wade and lebron are having very similar years. i just don't think that's enough to discount what he means to that team offensively and defensively. value is value. it's not contingent on what's around you.

if you own 10 mercedes, your lamborghini is still just as valuable.

as for rose, if you want to argue his candidacy i don't think you can argue it over dwight. his team is worse and his dominance is more definite and balanced, imo.

Does that change if you own two Lamborghinis and a Porsche? I think so. At least in terms of the NBA metaphor you were trying to create.

Doogolas
02-18-2011, 07:44 PM
i understand that wade and lebron are having very similar years. i just don't think that's enough to discount what he means to that team offensively and defensively. value is value. it's not contingent on what's around you.

if you own 10 mercedes, your lamborghini is still just as valuable.

as for rose, if you want to argue his candidacy i don't think you can argue it over dwight. his team is worse and his dominance is more definite and balanced, imo.

That's not really "value" in the way that MVP is though. This is more like a guy having 100,000 finding $100 on the ground and another guy who is homeless finding $100 on the ground. That $100 is WAY more valuable to the homeless guy. And to a guy with no car a Mercedes is way more valuable to him than a Lamborghini is to the guy with 10 Mercedes.

You're talking about how good someone is, not their value. Because LeBron can only add SO many wins to a team already so talented. You put a super talented guy on a ****** team and his abilities are the most valuable there. You put a great player on a great team and he doesn't add nearly as much value to the team.

I'm not taking away from LeBron the player. He is the best in the league. But if he goes down, his team will still win games, plenty of them. Without him for a full year they can probably manage 50 wins. The Bulls without Rose, I highly doubt they can come close to 50 wins.

thekmp211
02-18-2011, 08:15 PM
That's not really "value" in the way that MVP is though. This is more like a guy having 100,000 finding $100 on the ground and another guy who is homeless finding $100 on the ground. That $100 is WAY more valuable to the homeless guy. And to a guy with no car a Mercedes is way more valuable to him than a Lamborghini is to the guy with 10 Mercedes.

You're talking about how good someone is, not their value. Because LeBron can only add SO many wins to a team already so talented. You put a super talented guy on a ****** team and his abilities are the most valuable there. You put a great player on a great team and he doesn't add nearly as much value to the team.

I'm not taking away from LeBron the player. He is the best in the league. But if he goes down, his team will still win games, plenty of them. Without him for a full year they can probably manage 50 wins. The Bulls without Rose, I highly doubt they can come close to 50 wins.

fair enough. of course, it all boils down to how you define valuable in the context of the nba.

if you go by that line of thinking though, i feel dwight has just as compelling a case. the bulls would struggle without rose, but look at that roster without dwight howard. they would be one of the worst teams in the league. boozer/noah/deng is still playoff material, especially on a top-1 defensive team.

dwight-less magic ... what can that team do well? nothing.

D Roses Bulls
02-18-2011, 08:32 PM
Looks like some of the guys on 790 the ticket (Miami Heat's Flagship Station) are giving Rose more support for MVP than LBJ after that Spurs game

http://www.790theticket.com/Episodes.aspx?PID=1205

the 2/18 show :nod:

man, when the heats own flagship station is saying derrick rose is mvp, you really can't argue with that, but im sure someone will discredit them too and say they are heat haters, lol. like the guy said though, derrick rose has done it with far less then what lebron has done it with.

Doogolas
02-18-2011, 08:36 PM
fair enough. of course, it all boils down to how you define valuable in the context of the nba.

if you go by that line of thinking though, i feel dwight has just as compelling a case. the bulls would struggle without rose, but look at that roster without dwight howard. they would be one of the worst teams in the league. boozer/noah/deng is still playoff material, especially on a top-1 defensive team.

dwight-less magic ... what can that team do well? nothing.

I really doubt it. And the Bulls would have a lot of issues without Rose defensively. He's no superstar defensively but he does a great job keeping his man from penetrating which keeps his team from breaking down. Also, CJ Watson would be his replacement, and, holy **** would that be ugly.

As far as Dwight goes, if the Magic finish with a top 3 seed, I would give it to him as well.

I mean, I think plenty of guys have great cases for MVP this year. It's not like if Rose doesn't win it I will think the award is a sham.

flclfanman
02-18-2011, 09:12 PM
man, when the heats own flagship station is saying derrick rose is mvp, you really can't argue with that, but im sure someone will discredit them too and say they are heat haters, lol. like the guy said though, derrick rose has done it with far less then what lebron has done it with.

Its was pretty much 60/40 Lebron on all of their podcast before that Spurs game. Most of the 2/18 shows STARTED OFF the show with that Rose line. Great to get respect from unexpected places.

kelly0207
02-19-2011, 05:17 AM
I Love Lebron James Forever!