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giants9689
02-09-2011, 01:30 PM
Was having a debate with my friend out of rondo, allen, pierce, garnett shaq id say 3. Shaq's a lock and i think garnett and allen are pretty solid. Not sure if pierce would get in and rondo is still too young but definitely has potential. What do you think

beasted86
02-09-2011, 01:34 PM
Paul Pierce is getting in. he has the stats and a Finals MVP.

Shaq & KG are locks because of MVP, and Allen should also get in.

Rondo has a long way to go before we can start than talk.

black1605
02-09-2011, 01:37 PM
Pierce, Allen, Shaq, and Garnett are all locks.

Hellcrooner
02-09-2011, 01:41 PM
allen, pierce, kg and shaq.

Rondo MAY go in deppending what he does after they old dudes retire.

KingPosey
02-09-2011, 01:41 PM
Shaq doesnt start anymore right? And you cant even think about saying Rondo will be in the HoF this early, thats called dick riding. So, if Shaq is coming off the bench now, 3 will make it that are starting.

LanceUpperCut
02-09-2011, 01:42 PM
I but 3 but forgot about Shaq, so 4 and I think there no doubt. Allen will get in especially after breaking the 3 point record. Pierce has the ring and stats and if he gets another one this year hes a lock.

Minimal
02-09-2011, 01:44 PM
All 5. Pierce, Allen, KG, Shaq 100% and Rondo I think will be a decent player in the future and will get the spot in HOF.

dhopisthename
02-09-2011, 01:44 PM
rondo is way to early to tell. the early signs are that he won't be, but that could change easy. However the other 4 could retire right now and get in.

Mishmin
02-09-2011, 01:45 PM
You really need not bother having 0-2 as options in this poll. Clearly at the very least 3 will be hall of famers. My vote is all 5 when it's all said and done. Rondo continues to break celtics records..

Mishmin
02-09-2011, 01:47 PM
And those who think Pierce may not be a HOFer, time to start watching and studying basketball.

NYKalltheway
02-09-2011, 01:47 PM
4 till Rondo shows he's a longterm gem ;)

topdog
02-09-2011, 01:49 PM
A lot depends upon what Rondo does later in his career, but he's alreay got a ring and his assist numbers are ridiculous so if he can keep the assists coming and get a couple more good teams, his odds are pretty good.

Perkins is an obvious "no," but I'm assuming this debate started before he came back...

Raph12
02-09-2011, 01:50 PM
If you count Shaq then 4, and if Rondo can play this well with the Big 3 retiring, then maybe 5...

Hawkeye15
02-09-2011, 01:54 PM
I am giving Rondo the benefit of the doubt.

Its the NBA HOF guys. Not that difficult to get in

beasted86
02-09-2011, 01:56 PM
Rondo is not on a HOF path so far IMO.

There are too many talented All-NBA team top tier PGs who have great careers and have not made the HOF. Kevin Johnson, Tim Hardaway... Stephon Marbury won't make it...

Rondo isn't better than any of those guys, and he played so small of a role in the Celtics '08 Championship it's not going to make a difference. I don't mean to put him down... but Rondo is basically a glorified Mookie Blaylock. I had to say it.

PhillyFaninLA
02-09-2011, 02:00 PM
I accidentally picked 3 instead of 4.

Rondo is way to young to even begin to put into the hall. Garnet and Shaq are 2 of the best big men ever. Ray Allen great clutch player and one of the best 3 point shooters ever. Pierce is one of the great Celtics of all time (top 5 maybe, top 10 definitely) so that makes him a lock.

topdog
02-09-2011, 02:01 PM
Rondo is not on a HOF path so far IMO.

There are too many talented All-NBA team top tier PGs who have great careers and have not made the HOF. Kevin Johnson, Tim Hardaway... Stephon Marbury won't make it...

Rondo isn't better than any of those guys, and he played so small of a role in the Celtics '08 Championship it's not going to make a difference. I don't mean to put him down... but Rondo is basically a glorified Mookie Blaylock. I had to say it.

Championships make a huge difference in voting. "How can this guy not be that good if he has a title?"

Still a lot of basketball to play. And honestly I couldn't care less about the Hall.

nickdymez
02-09-2011, 02:02 PM
Rondo is not on a HOF path so far IMO.

There are too many talented All-NBA team top tier PGs who have great careers and have not made the HOF. Kevin Johnson, Tim Hardaway... Stephon Marbury won't make it...

Rondo isn't better than any of those guys, and he played so small of a role in the Celtics '08 Championship it's not going to make a difference. I don't mean to put him down... but Rondo is basically a glorified Mookie Blaylock. I had to say it.

I know youv'e seen rondo play. He's a classic point guard.

PhillyFaninLA
02-09-2011, 02:03 PM
I am giving Rondo the benefit of the doubt.

Its the NBA HOF guys. Not that difficult to get in


No its not. Its the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. Its all things basketball not just NBA.

beasted86
02-09-2011, 02:10 PM
Championships make a huge difference in voting. "How can this guy not be that good if he has a title?"

27 MIN, 9 PPG, 6 AST, 37% FG.
He just didn't have a big impact in the Finals.

Rondo's a good PG, just not on a HOF path.

Khalifa21
02-09-2011, 02:19 PM
4 definite locks in Shaq (4 rings, 3 finals MVP's, regular season MVP), KG (MVP), Pierce (finals MVP) and Ray Allen (ring, multiple time all-star, 3 point record).

Rondo has the chance as well. If he can continue this pace for the majority of his career and average 10+ assists for his career he'll get in no doubt. He already has the ring...

ttam68
02-09-2011, 02:35 PM
If you count Shaq as a starter:

Atleast 4, possibly 5

**** the Celtics

Hawkeye15
02-09-2011, 02:36 PM
No its not. Its the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. Its all things basketball not just NBA.

haha, fair enough. I have even been there. My point is, its easy to get into the basketball HOF compared to other sports. Rondo has a title already, and will have a nice career with a couple of assist titles most likely, at the least. I think he gets in. The other 4 are already there imo.

Nighthawk
02-09-2011, 02:39 PM
27 MIN, 9 PPG, 6 AST, 37% FG.
He just didn't have a big impact in the Finals.

Rondo's a good PG, just not on a HOF path.

Rondo has extreme court vision. Hes a righty and passes just as good with his left. Always finding the open guy and running the offense. He is a POINT GUARD. He will lead the league in assists for the next several years. His size and his rebounding ability is insane. He will rack up triple doubles. He will break C's records. Havng a ring usually helps. And i think he will be in the top 5-10 all time assists list.

Only thing i think keeps Rondo out of the HOF is if he has bad health and huge injuries that take away years from him. Hes still so young. Right now hes not a HOF. But not on the path??

I vote 4

avrpatsfan
02-09-2011, 02:45 PM
4 right now. Rondo should make it if he keeps up his production.

Bravo95
02-09-2011, 02:48 PM
All five since the basketball HOF as a thing for electing people based on who they played alongside, rather than what they actually accomplished as individuals.

beasted86
02-09-2011, 02:49 PM
Rondo has extreme court vision. Hes a righty and passes just as good with his left. Always finding the open guy and running the offense. He is a POINT GUARD. He will lead the league in assists for the next several years. His size and his rebounding ability is insane. He will rack up triple doubles. He will break C's records. Havng a ring usually helps. And i think he will be in the top 5-10 all time assists list.

Only thing i think keeps Rondo out of the HOF is if he has bad health and huge injuries that take away years from him. Hes still so young. Right now hes not a HOF. But not on the path??

I vote 4

Whether fans want to overlook this or not, he's only averaged double digit assists once in his 5 year career.

5 years in he has a career stat line of 10 PPG, 7 AST. Sorry... not on the path. Nobody can convince me even if he kept pace and improved a little offensively he'd get in with a career stat line of let's say ~14 PPG, 10 AST. Even still... no HOF.

No, just not happening if he doesn't play a big impact in at least one championship... because so far, as I pointed out, he hasn't been a big impact in a Finals win.

AntiG
02-09-2011, 04:14 PM
KG, Pierce, Allen and Shaq are all first ballot HOFers.

Rondo at this pace is on track to get there. He's on track to break the all-time single season assist record, already has a ring, and if nothing significantly negative happens to him by the time he finishes his career will be top 10 (if not at the very top) all-time leaders in assists and steals amongst all NBA players, as well as one of the leaders in rebounds amongst guards and will have collected enough points since he averages over 10 a game, and his shooting touch has improved every year. Still quite awhile to go, but he's putting up Stockton and Kidd type of numbers as a pure pointguard.

Double_R
02-09-2011, 04:27 PM
I forgot about Shaq being on there, so there is 3 locks; KG, Shaq, and Allen; with Pierce, he never did anything spectacular before the other 2 guys got there, so I am not sold, but the HOFs are getting watered down anyway, so I'm sure he might get in. Allen really hasn't ever been considered a HOFer until recently too, so... KG and Shaq were HOF before the Celtics.

numba1CHANGsta
02-09-2011, 04:30 PM
lmao on whoever said "0"

Hustlenomics
02-09-2011, 05:37 PM
well when Rondo wins another ring he will sure be on the path to the HOF !

Mudvayne91
02-09-2011, 05:58 PM
I voted 3, but I didn't realize Shaq is starting, so I'd go with 4.

I'm a huge fan of Rondo, but I'd like to see him post KG, Allen, and Pierce before declaring him a HOF.

iliketurtles24
02-09-2011, 06:04 PM
for sure kg allen pp and shaq are in, but not rondo, unless he goes to another star studded team, without ppl to pass to idk if he is anything special

Jewelz0376
02-09-2011, 06:07 PM
I went 4...Kg, Ray Ray, and Shaq are locks obviously...Pierce will be the 2nd all time leading scorer in celtics history by next season...(doubt he'll catch hondo) He might not get in 1st ballet, but he will eventually get in...

I can't say Rondo right now...it will all depend how he plays once the big 3 are gone..

goose15
02-09-2011, 06:11 PM
right now: 4

Shaq
KG
Pierce
Allen

SB1
02-09-2011, 06:12 PM
3 - starting + Shaq off the bench = 4

Rondo has to continue to play at a high level once the big 3 are gone and he'll probably get in too

tangent12
02-09-2011, 06:15 PM
0.

MiamiWadeCounty
02-09-2011, 06:17 PM
All 5. Pierce, Allen, KG, Shaq 100% and Rondo I think will be a decent player in the future and will get the spot in HOF.
You think he will be DECENT and get into the HOF :facepalm:

BDoggaF
02-09-2011, 06:21 PM
there will definitely be 4..

Ray Ray
Shaq
KG
Pierce

Rondo talk right now is just way too premature. I mean, if he keeps having years like he did last year and this year and his jumper continues to develop (which it has, tremendously) than there is a possibility, but just too early to even consider talking about it.

ManRam
02-09-2011, 06:23 PM
I think that Shaq and KG are first-ballot HOFers. I think Ray and Pierce will both get in, especially if they win another ring.

Rondo talk is premature. I won't even speculate right now. I love the kid, but something tells me no...

Raps08-09 Champ
02-09-2011, 06:24 PM
There are people who got in the HOF and I've never heard of them.

Their career highlight is like averaging 20 PPG and having like 5 All star appearances.

thekmp211
02-09-2011, 06:28 PM
Rondo is not on a HOF path so far IMO.

There are too many talented All-NBA team top tier PGs who have great careers and have not made the HOF. Kevin Johnson, Tim Hardaway... Stephon Marbury won't make it...

Rondo isn't better than any of those guys, and he played so small of a role in the Celtics '08 Championship it's not going to make a difference. I don't mean to put him down... but Rondo is basically a glorified Mookie Blaylock. I had to say it.

whoaaa. he's in his fifth year. he didn't really come into his own until his third season, and is now leading the league in assists.

you can't fault him for his teammates and playing his role well. if he puts up a few more seasons like this one, with added scoring as he develops and the old guys fade out, he's absolutely in the conversation.

i agree he isn't a HoF as of now, but you are shockingly underrating him in your evaluation. his elite passing alone puts him in the early conversation.

as of now, it's four. and they are all locks. i'd bet 1000 dollars each on allen, pierce, kg and shaq getting in. four defining players of a generation.

avrpatsfan
02-09-2011, 06:47 PM
Barring injury Rondo will make the HOF. If you've ever watched him play you'd agree with me.

PAOboston
02-09-2011, 06:52 PM
i voted 4 in the HOF.

Shaq could very well be the most dominant big man of his generation and his stats/rings back that up.

KG, Allen, and Pierce will have the hardware and stats to get in as well.

as for rondo, it waaaaaaaaay to early to tell. he's only 24 and is now starting to come into his own. he's improved statistically every year so far and gotten better but no one can for sure predict how his career ends up.

i think there's a lot of questions on his future progression. can he become a better shooter from the floor and ft line? can he become more of a scoring threat as the big 3 get phased out? how will his stats look post big-3? i think they are all valid questions.

personally, i think he can do it. he's got scary potential. but the potential has to translate onto the court. time will tell....

unwantedplayer
02-09-2011, 07:03 PM
0.

Lol..

LongWayFromHome
02-10-2011, 04:10 AM
You think he will be DECENT and get into the HOF :facepalm:

My thoughts exactly. Since when do DECENT PLAYERS with one ring from b4 they were really relevant make the HOF? don't answer that lol.

But seriously "decent" should not get him in. Even Reggie Miller probably won't make the hall. And he was a lot better than decent.

cchrisc773
02-10-2011, 04:25 AM
You really need not bother having 0-2 as options in this poll. Clearly at the very least 3 will be hall of famers. My vote is all 5 when it's all said and done. Rondo continues to break celtics records..


Rondo is surrounded by talent. Let's first wait and see if he is still the same player when KG, Pierce, and Allen are gone. It's easy to fall under the radar on teams game plan when they have to worry about those 3. Rondo currently is great however nothing suggest he is a lock for the HOF just yet.

Antipod
02-10-2011, 04:58 AM
3 surely, Pierce maybe, Rondo too soon.

Boston Fanatic
02-10-2011, 06:51 AM
it would be great to see rondo make it in especially since ive watched him grow and progress as a player to go from a scrub to a star...but am i the only celtics fan who thinks that paul pierce isnt exactly a hall of famer?

bagwell368
02-10-2011, 07:15 AM
Was having a debate with my friend out of rondo, allen, pierce, garnett shaq id say 3. Shaq's a lock and i think garnett and allen are pretty solid. Not sure if pierce would get in and rondo is still too young but definitely has potential. What do you think

Shaq doesn't start, but if he did. Five.

Shaq & KG are automatic. KG is one of the 15 best players of all time (#14 in win shares). Shaq in the top 10 (#8 win shares today)

Pierce is out at #37 (will pass Ewing and Pippen early next year - ahead of Nash already), with ring, having one of his best seasons in what is a twilight year for many. In.

Allen's ring, discovered defense since he got around KG, and his 3 point record to be set tonight - and the fact he is at #32 win shares all time, means he gets in.

I wrote here last year that Rondo was about 25-27% to the HOF already. He's having a good year this year too (TOV & FT% are the weak points). Injuries aside, six more like the last 2.5 years and he's borderline. Eight - all time great. Seeing as he doesn't turn 25 for about 10 days, I wouldn't bet against him.

Bulls_fan90
02-10-2011, 07:28 AM
I am giving Rondo the benefit of the doubt.

Its the NBA HOF guys. Not that difficult to get in

Tell that to Dennis Rodman.

bagwell368
02-10-2011, 07:31 AM
Whether fans want to overlook this or not, he's only averaged double digit assists once in his 5 year career.

5 years in he has a career stat line of 10 PPG, 7 AST. Sorry... not on the path. Nobody can convince me even if he kept pace and improved a little offensively he'd get in with a career stat line of let's say ~14 PPG, 10 AST. Even still... no HOF.

No, just not happening if he doesn't play a big impact in at least one championship... because so far, as I pointed out, he hasn't been a big impact in a Finals win.

Nothing like a half way analysis. Rondo is an elite defender (7th, 3rd, 8th in defensive win shares the last 3 years), and an excellent rebounder for a PG (4.4 career average), that counts too. Good for a 2nd and 1st team All D, and 2 ASG's.

Rondo's AST% have risen every year: 26, 28, 40, 44, 50
Rondo has led the league in Steal % twice

Rondo in his 3 playoff years had led all players in AST's all three times - no impact... my foot.

He's got 33.8 win shares before age 25. I would bet there are less then 25 players in NBA history that can say that.

Rondo does get knocked to the floor a lot, and of course a major injury could be the end of the HOF. Rondo is going to have some very good teammates for another year or two. If the Celts are dead in the water after that, they may deal him for picks to rebuild, he ends up on a team like say Miami for the '13-'14 season and beyond, there won't be too much trouble keeping up the assists.

bagwell368
02-10-2011, 07:38 AM
Some folks have said the NBA HOF is easy to get into...

Gilmore
Moncrief
Miller
KJ
Bobby Jones
Marques Johnson
Maxwell
Payton
Chet Walker
Mutombo
Sikma
Nance
Schremph
Cheeks

and others would like to object to that analysis.

eugene
02-10-2011, 07:46 AM
Cmon, Mookie is not even close, Rondo is much more effective. Playing with 4 HOF's he don't need to score but definitely he knows how to do this... And his ast p/g average is much higher. What about Kevin Johnson, I agree :)


Rondo is not on a HOF path so far IMO.

There are too many talented All-NBA team top tier PGs who have great careers and have not made the HOF. Kevin Johnson, Tim Hardaway... Stephon Marbury won't make it...

Rondo isn't better than any of those guys, and he played so small of a role in the Celtics '08 Championship it's not going to make a difference. I don't mean to put him down... but Rondo is basically a glorified Mookie Blaylock. I had to say it.

nshush
02-10-2011, 07:53 AM
All 5. Rondo (he'll), Allen, Pierce, Garnett, Shaq.

First four are locks as of now. I really wanna see who voted 0 and 2.

Frrrrank!!!
02-10-2011, 10:10 AM
Shaq doesn't start, but if he did. Five.

Shaq & KG are automatic. KG is one of the 15 best players of all time (#14 in win shares). Shaq in the top 10 (#8 win shares today)

Pierce is out at #37 (will pass Ewing and Pippen early next year - ahead of Nash already), with ring, having one of his best seasons in what is a twilight year for many. In.

Allen's ring, discovered defense since he got around KG, and his 3 point record to be set tonight - and the fact he is at #32 win shares all time, means he gets in.

I wrote here last year that Rondo was about 25-27% to the HOF already. He's having a good year this year too (TOV & FT% are the weak points). Injuries aside, six more like the last 2.5 years and he's borderline. Eight - all time great. Seeing as he doesn't turn 25 for about 10 days, I wouldn't bet against him.

You think Rondo is already over a 1/4th of the way to the HOF?

Frrrrank!!!
02-10-2011, 10:23 AM
He's got 33.8 win shares before age 25. I would bet there are less then 25 players in NBA history that can say that.



If I did this right, again if I did this right.

There are 85 players ahead of him.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=25&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws

This impresses me a lot more. It looks like he will pass MJ, Chris Paul, and maybe Kobe for most DWS for a guard before the age of 25. So comparing him to guards DWS wise is impressive.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=25&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=G&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=dws

Hellcrooner
02-10-2011, 10:40 AM
My thoughts exactly. Since when do DECENT PLAYERS with one ring from b4 they were really relevant make the HOF? don't answer that lol.

But seriously "decent" should not get him in. Even Reggie Miller probably won't make the hall. And he was a lot better than decent.

miller is a LOCK.

Hellcrooner
02-10-2011, 10:44 AM
Some folks have said the NBA HOF is easy to get into...

Gilmore : worst snub ever ,has personal issues with jury members.
Moncrief: was good but not hof goof.Lack of rings.
Miller: will get in soon, if youare talking reggie miller.
KJ:good but not hof good, no rings
Bobby Jones: sadly defense is always overlooked.
Marques Johnson: lack of wining.
Maxwell: he won a finals mvp but he was the fourth option on a stacked celtics.

Payton: will get In
Chet Walker: good but not hof good.
Mutombo: as i said, defense does not impress the jury.
Sikma;Clear snub
Nance; good but not hof good, lack of rings
Schremph: not even near
Cheeks: not even near.

and others would like to object to that analysis.
there

eugene
02-10-2011, 10:49 AM
Well, we will see how will Rondo produce after big three will retire...

Suns4ever67
02-10-2011, 10:54 AM
Allen, Pierce, and Shaq are automatic.

Garnett is a fringe HOF player, who would also be automatic if he got another ring. He has a similiar pedigree as Clyde Drexler so I'd say he makes it too.

If Rondo continues his mastery and can have other finishers around him for another 4-6 years, he will be a clone of Jason Kidd. Time will tell, but if he continues what he's doing now, he makes it too.

Frrrrank!!!
02-10-2011, 10:56 AM
Allen, Pierce, and Shaq are automatic.

Garnett is a fringe HOF player, who would also be automatic if he got another ring. He has a similiar pedigree as Clyde Drexler so I'd say he makes it too.

If Rondo continues his mastery and can have other finishers around him for another 4-6 years, he will be a clone of Jason Kidd. Time will tell, but if he continues what he's doing now, he makes it too.

You think Garnett is a "fringe HOF player"??? Why?

todu82
02-10-2011, 11:47 AM
4-Garnett, Shaq, Pierce and Allen

daleja424
02-10-2011, 11:55 AM
Shaq, KG, Allen, and Pierce are all HOFers more then likely. Only time will tell with Rondo.

Dnovakovic099
02-10-2011, 12:06 PM
If Rondo is a hall of famer then so are Rose, DWill, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Westbrook, and Tony Parker. I know Tony dosen't have the stats but I think he will get better and better stats as Timmy gets older. Plus, he has a bunch of rings. So, no Rondo is not a hall of famer.

Dnovakovic099
02-10-2011, 12:08 PM
Garnett is not a fringe hall of famer. He has ridiculous stats in Minnesota proving he could be the best player in the league. Then he goes to Boston and gives up his stats and plays lock down defense. Leads the team to a title too.

Hellcrooner
02-10-2011, 12:31 PM
If Rondo is a hall of famer then so are Rose, DWill, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Westbrook, and Tony Parker. I know Tony dosen't have the stats but I think he will get better and better stats as Timmy gets older. Plus, he has a bunch of rings. So, no Rondo is not a hall of famer.

those three are hof heavy candidates, nahs and kidd are locks..

paul, deron and rose ahve all their career in advance and they look like they probably will be too

AntiG
02-10-2011, 01:03 PM
Allen, Pierce, and Shaq are automatic.

Garnett is a fringe HOF player, who would also be automatic if he got another ring. He has a similiar pedigree as Clyde Drexler so I'd say he makes it too.

If Rondo continues his mastery and can have other finishers around him for another 4-6 years, he will be a clone of Jason Kidd. Time will tell, but if he continues what he's doing now, he makes it too.

KG is a fringe HOF player? :facepalm:

He's more of a shoe-in than Pierce and Allen are and widely regarded as one of the top 4 PFs to ever play the game.

AIRMAR72
02-10-2011, 01:55 PM
Barring injury Rondo will make the HOF. If you've ever watched him play you'd agree with me.I AGREE rondo will be a HOF when his career is over take him off boston and see what happens to the big 3

KingPosey
02-10-2011, 06:04 PM
And those who think Pierce may not be a HOFer, time to start watching and studying basketball.

Pierce is a good player, but I honestly believe that if KG and Allen didnt come to the Celts he wouldnt be talked about with near as much vigor when it came to the HoF. He was playing "pretty good" basketball on an awful team for years in a row. He got lucky.