PDA

View Full Version : Batum on Rose: "Great offensive player...can't play defense." (Later Retracts This)



Pages : [1] 2

Jonathan2323
02-08-2011, 02:48 AM
Batum, on Derrick Rose: "He's a great offensive player...he can't play defense."

http://twitter.com/blazerbanter

Sadds The Gr8
02-08-2011, 02:49 AM
in before the Heat/Bulls fan flame war

flclfanman
02-08-2011, 02:50 AM
Who the **** is Batum?

Funny he questions someones defense when he flops like a fish. Get in the weight room son.

Jewelz0376
02-08-2011, 02:52 AM
Who the **** is Batum?

Funny he questions someones defense when he flops like a fish. Get in the weight room son.

:rolleyes:

Batum is actually a good defender...Call me crazy but I think he might know a lil bit more about how good a defender Rose is than you hahaha

tredigs
02-08-2011, 02:52 AM
Batum's an amazing wing defender, so he has grounds to talk.

Rose backers will point to his elite "opponents production" numbers that he's posting this season, and others will say that this is largely a product of the fact that despite his moderate improvements defensively from pathetic to moderate, he is still benefiting hugely from the 6 or so more competent defenders on his team (ala Ray Allen when he went to Boston).

Thib has done great work for him and the entire Bulls team, but if Batum is comparing Rose to players like himself on the defensive end - then yes, relatively, he 'can't play defense'.

John Walls Era
02-08-2011, 02:52 AM
Who the **** is Batum?

Funny he questions someones defense when he flops like a fish. Get in the weight room son.

this is your best retort?

NYK_kidd77
02-08-2011, 02:55 AM
Oh snap!

yangx620
02-08-2011, 02:57 AM
come on man, batum you a solid defender yourself, rose is only in the league for 2 years...lbj got criticized when he was in the league for 5 years

flclfanman
02-08-2011, 02:57 AM
:rolleyes:

Batum is actually a good defender...Call me crazy but I think he might know a lil bit more about how good a defender Rose is than you hahaha

Really? Well you need to tell him to stop diving when he gets contact from Boozer and Gibson. At least thats what I say tonight.

flclfanman
02-08-2011, 02:58 AM
this is your best retort?

Nah, just frustrated. Been a bad week for Chicago sports :bang:

Htownballa1622
02-08-2011, 03:00 AM
His d doesn't seem to be too bad.they're winning.

SB1
02-08-2011, 03:01 AM
Batum is a pretty good defender

faze38
02-08-2011, 03:02 AM
He is telling the truth but I would take Rose with his bad D over Batum and his very good D any day! That's coming from a Knicks fan so not showing homerism in any way!

GoatMilk
02-08-2011, 03:02 AM
i dont think he's that bad of a defender
could he use some work, yeah. but he's getting the job done

RZZZA
02-08-2011, 03:03 AM
Batum, on Derrick Rose: "He's a great offensive player..."

Oh thank you, what a nice compliment. I choose to end that quote there.

KH12
02-08-2011, 03:04 AM
Rose has improved tremendously on his defense since he entered the league. To simply say that he can't play it is ignorant.

kingbrentg
02-08-2011, 03:07 AM
He was bad on that end tonight. Definitely hasn't been the case over the course of the whole season.

tredigs
02-08-2011, 03:08 AM
By the way - before this gets out of hand, realize that this quote is from somebody's twitter account quoting Batum (not Nicolas himself), and it's not even a connected sentence. I.e., the context/tone could be HUGELY different from whatever we're interpreting it as.

Always be weary of quotes, especially ones that are two different sentences (said at different moments) spliced. It's often an editors trick to drum up a comment to be much more than it actually is.

It would be smart to wait until you hear the interview, or at the very least read the entire paragraph before passing judgement one way or the other (not that this is a story regardless, but in general, it's good practice).

210Don
02-08-2011, 03:08 AM
cool story brah.

GodsSon
02-08-2011, 03:11 AM
cool story brah.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/reddit/cool-starry-bra

:cool:

Bulls_fan90
02-08-2011, 03:11 AM
Another Derrick Rose thread??? Get off his ballz bro.

MJ-BULLS
02-08-2011, 03:12 AM
even though Derrick Rose is not one of the best defenders in the NBA, he has really improved on his defense. but whatever, Derrick Rose could use this for motivation to improve on his defense. hopefully that's the case.

DodgerBulls
02-08-2011, 03:12 AM
I agree with Batum's standards. Also, just like what I have said before, D Rose's defense have imporved but needs a lot of work. His pick and roll defense is what I don't like from him. He always tries to avoid it too quickly by going behind the pick and it ultimately gives the ball handler a chance to dribble the other way too easily. Also, I don't know if Thibs tells him to do this, but man to man off ball defense is what I hate the most. It seems like he never tried going body to body to the player. It allows the 'trapped' ball handler to just give it to the player way too easily. His fast break D is a bit better rarely picking up a foul especially on 1 on 1 fast break.





PS: if you think i'm a Bulls homer, then you're a more of a homer than me.

Jonathan2323
02-08-2011, 03:12 AM
Miller finished with 27 points, 11 assists, six rebounds and four steals, while making 13-of-13 free throws. He brought it against Rose.


Batum cont: "But you have to play defense, too. He can’t guard Dre. You gotta play defense. He can’t play defense ..."

BlazerFreeman

KH12
02-08-2011, 03:14 AM
That's why they play 82 games, and don't just rely on one game sample sizes.

Illinirob83
02-08-2011, 03:15 AM
Derrick was an awful defender for his first year and a half in the league, got better the 2nd half last yr. This year with thibs he has improved tremendously on that end. Derrick, along with the rest of the bulls team was bad tonight defensively against the blazers. I hope batum is smart enough to not make assumptions off of this game alone, looks like he isnt. Derrick has made huge strides this year on that ends where he has been borderline good this year on defense. Wasn't tonightand batum chose to make a conclusion about it. Now the haters can have their fuel and use this as gospel.

kingbrentg
02-08-2011, 03:16 AM
I guess that's why "Dre" had 7 points in the first meeting. Shut up, Batum.

D1JM
02-08-2011, 03:18 AM
i didnt see the game, but how in the world did portland get 40 FT? wtf

s2kobe
02-08-2011, 03:22 AM
from the looks of it rose is first half mvp for the season and batum is......well at least he can play D

yangx620
02-08-2011, 03:22 AM
he's 20 year old....give him a break..defense can be learned, rose has the speed and toughness and mentality to be great, he will get it done, he just need to work on that jumper until he perfected it and then work on defense..no biggie

RZZZA
02-08-2011, 03:23 AM
i didnt see the game, but how in the world did portland get 40 FT? wtf

and make 37 of them. I mean, wow

sunsfan88
02-08-2011, 03:24 AM
Derrick Rose on Batum....

"He's a great defensive player, but he cant play offense"

yangx620
02-08-2011, 03:24 AM
andre miller is one of the toughest underrated point guard of all time...the dude is GOOD, ofc he will do damage to a young rose

D1JM
02-08-2011, 03:31 AM
i think batum forgot to mention that andre cant guard rose, that is why they had matthews on rose

bbcmillionaire
02-08-2011, 03:31 AM
Lol batums team, 4 games above 500, d roses team close to 20 games over 500. Batums the 3rd best player on his team, rose is the best, batum flops, and criticize rose defense? Hahahaha, well happy backwards day to you all, next thing you know Reggie Evans will call out Dwight Howard for not having any kind of offensive game.

TrueFan420
02-08-2011, 03:34 AM
hahahahah

kingbrentg
02-08-2011, 03:35 AM
First you get Andre Miller whining about Blake Griffin getting too much respect, then Aldridge whining about the All-Star game, now Batum is an expert on a player in a different conference, that doesn't even guard him, after one game.

Honestly, these guys need to just shut up and take care of their own business. You're in a dog fight in the West, handle that.

nitric
02-08-2011, 03:38 AM
Derrick Rose on Batum....

"He's a great defensive player, but he cant play offense"

Why would Rose comment on scrubs

ilovemyangel
02-08-2011, 03:47 AM
I'd like to see Rose and Batum go against each other, I wonder how many pts Batum can score with Rose on him.

championships
02-08-2011, 03:48 AM
Most of these great offensive players can't play D. They have spent more time polishing their handles or jump shot than they do on the D side of the ball.

Fnom11
02-08-2011, 03:57 AM
Irrelevant people trying to be relevant. Surprised this wasn't directed to Lebron.

*Silver&Black*
02-08-2011, 03:59 AM
Who the **** is Batum?

Funny he questions someones defense when he flops like a fish. Get in the weight room son.

First you say who is he, like you don't know him. Then you talk about him. So you do know him?

Fnom11
02-08-2011, 04:00 AM
Most of these great offensive players can't play D. They have spent more time polishing their handles or jump shot than they do on the D side of the ball.

Wade Lebron Kobe Gasul Bynum Peirce Allen KG Bosh DWill CP3 Dwight can all play AMAZING D. And those are arguably the best players in the league so yeah no you're wrong.

TrueFan420
02-08-2011, 04:12 AM
gasol and bosh cant play great d. lebron is not a great man on man d but very good help defender. allen and pierce are good not great defenders(team d/ kg).

disgruntledbull
02-08-2011, 04:14 AM
Wade Lebron Kobe Gasul Bynum Peirce Allen KG Bosh DWill CP3 Dwight can all play AMAZING D. And those are arguably the best players in the league so yeah no you're wrong.
:speechless:

Fnom11
02-08-2011, 04:17 AM
:speechless:

Allen is an amazing defender. Bosh is also a very good defender, not on the others level but hes still top tier.

zambo4president
02-08-2011, 04:20 AM
This quote is irrelevant. Rose plays great D. The last 2 games he's seemed bothered though.

toovey107
02-08-2011, 04:21 AM
Bulls ranked 1 in defense, all I truly care about to be honest.

He's def. improved on the defensive end, but there is no doubt... there is a lot of room to improve; and I know he will.

Basing things off one game samples is fun though.

toovey107
02-08-2011, 04:22 AM
Allen is an amazing defender. Bosh is also a very good defender, not on the others level but hes still top tier.
Wrong and wrong.

TopsyTurvy
02-08-2011, 04:27 AM
Malicious or not, I like Batum's commentary, though there is something to be said about this coming out AFTER having played the Bulls for the last time this season...

The Dream
02-08-2011, 04:30 AM
rose will neVer be a superstar

TrueFan420
02-08-2011, 04:33 AM
Allen is an amazing defender. Bosh is also a very good defender, not on the others level but hes still top tier.

i herd miami's weed wasnt that good but you must be smoking some fire over there if you think bosh and good d belong in the same breath.

toovey107
02-08-2011, 04:38 AM
rose will neVer be a superstar
Relevant post, love it.

Post more often, will ya?

Raoul Duke_91
02-08-2011, 04:41 AM
honestly if he made this quote at any time previously in derrick rose's career I'd be like "word, he's definitely right."

Now is Derrick a lock down defender...lol no.

But Derrick's a try hard, he puts in the work he plays D in games and he is GREATLY improved. Believe me DRose this year as oppose to last year are two different guys.

to say he "cant" play defense isn't fair. Boozer cant play defense. Rose is a mediocre defender who I feel confident will continue to improve to at least an average NBA defender.

Kyben36
02-08-2011, 05:29 AM
is rose a great defender, no, is he as bad as "cant play D", no, Rose isnt an all defensive team guy, ill admit that, but he plays some good defense, especaily in crunch time.

BULLSFAN0810
02-08-2011, 07:00 AM
Lets be real...Portland is still burning mad over Rose killing them repeatedly. Some of his best posters shots in his young NBA life are against Portland. To say Drose is a bad Defender coming from Batum is not saying much.There is no elite player that excels on both ends and deemed as unstoppable. Portland dont wanna admit they cannot guard him. DRose is in the same category as LBJ,KOBE etc It takes a team to stop him. ANd like Kobe LBJ and etc to counter him you either has to expand all your energy to stop him or go at him and go pt for pt. Those same players who are elite, burn you soo badly for them to play a tad bit of D is a stifle to their opponent...so really Drose isnt bad or mediorcre,he is above average. All that statement say is Portland hates Rose,but hate is respect in the NBA.

Bullsfan22
02-08-2011, 07:08 AM
Role player on a non contending team trash talking, nice.

Minimal
02-08-2011, 07:14 AM
Lets be real...Portland is still burning mad over Rose killing them repeatedly. Some of his best posters shots in his young NBA life are against Portland. To say Drose is a bad Defender coming from Batum is not saying much.There is no elite player that excels on both ends and deemed as unstoppable. Portland dont wanna admit they cannot guard him. DRose is in the same category as LBJ,KOBE etc It takes a team to stop him. ANd like Kobe LBJ and etc to counter him you either has to expand all your energy to stop him or go at him and go pt for pt. Those same players who are elite, burn you soo badly for them to play a tad bit of D is a stifle to their opponent...so really Drose isnt bad or mediorcre,he is above average. All that statement say is Portland hates Rose,but hate is respect in the NBA.
LeBron, Wade and Chris Paul will have to say something about it.

BULLSFAN0810
02-08-2011, 07:35 AM
LeBron, Wade and Chris Paul will have to say something about it.

If you think LBJ is great look at when he plays Paul Pierce ...PP gives him damn near 30 evry time...espically in big games...Melo feasts on LBJ...

You think Wade is lock down? I remember a time when Tmac,Kobe and maybe 1 other use to B**** him.

CP3 is a pure Pg,not in the same discusion but i understand that more...but Rose kills him.

What im saying is Great hoopers just have to have intangibles & be able to make a play when needed. LBJ is god vs a bum...why? because he is lightning this guy up and they gotta get him off LBJ or he may foul out...90% of the time its a one way street,and its not solely due to defense its more of the pressure stopping an LBJ. LBJ vs PP/or another elite guy is a a stand still,comes down to hottest team.

LBJ vs Batuum: LBJ clearly wins. LBJ drops 50 Batuum drops 7...reason is Batumm cant stop LBJ so he gets very few ticks or he fouls out,therefore LBJ doesnt have to expand as much energy on the defense end because he clearly owns the matchup and the trailblazer has to look elsewhere for scoring,because they need the man guarding LBJ to focus soley on him.

FYI..The BEST PLAYER IN THE NBA IS DWIGHT HOWARD...HE IMPACTS THE PAINT ON BOTH ENDS 100%..directly at the rim

jiggin
02-08-2011, 07:46 AM
Who the **** is Batum?

Funny he questions someones defense when he flops like a fish. Get in the weight room son.

he has been called one of the better defenders in the league. He has been interviewed by numerous media outlets that ask him regularly who is the toughest to guard in the NBA ect... because he is given the assignment of defending all the greats when he plays them.

Its sad you don't know this...it shows you don't read much past ESPN and the like.

jiggin
02-08-2011, 07:47 AM
I typed the above without reading through the thread.

I now understand that Bulls fans will stop at no level to completely defend a fan favorite even if they are incorrect or make up information that supports their opinion.

Bulls fans = Cubs fans in this regard.

Minimal
02-08-2011, 08:05 AM
If you think LBJ is great look at when he plays Paul Pierce ...PP gives him damn near 30 evry time...espically in big games...Melo feasts on LBJ...

You think Wade is lock down? I remember a time when Tmac,Kobe and maybe 1 other use to B**** him.

CP3 is a pure Pg,not in the same discusion but i understand that more...but Rose kills him.

What im saying is Great hoopers just have to have intangibles & be able to make a play when needed. LBJ is god vs a bum...why? because he is lightning this guy up and they gotta get him off LBJ or he may foul out...90% of the time its a one way street,and its not solely due to defense its more of the pressure stopping an LBJ. LBJ vs PP/or another elite guy is a a stand still,comes down to hottest team.

LBJ vs Batuum: LBJ clearly wins. LBJ drops 50 Batuum drops 7...reason is Batumm cant stop LBJ so he gets very few ticks or he fouls out,therefore LBJ doesnt have to expand as much energy on the defense end because he clearly owns the matchup and the trailblazer has to look elsewhere for scoring,because they need the man guarding LBJ to focus soley on him.

FYI..The BEST PLAYER IN THE NBA IS DWIGHT HOWARD...HE IMPACTS THE PAINT ON BOTH ENDS 100%..directly at the rim
This sentence should have been your first so I could stop reading, but I read all.

Paul Pierce vs LeBron James
Link (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=piercpa01&p2=jamesle01)
LeBron holds him to .412 FG% during their matchups and averages 2.1 SPG and 1.3 BPG. He doesn't stop him? He can even stop elite players.
Carmelo Anthony vs LeBron James
Link (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jamesle01&p2=anthoca01)
Holds Carmelo to .441 FG%, Clearly outrebounds him.

And we can look at Rose vs Paul for example. 3 games doesn't say much, but...
Link (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=rosede01&p2=paulch01)

Squad13
02-08-2011, 08:20 AM
It's kinda true, not that Batum has done anything to earn the right to say it.

dodie53
02-08-2011, 08:27 AM
@rose

can't have 'em all

Antipod
02-08-2011, 08:32 AM
Nothing new in those words ... but since they`re getting wins, it`s not a big of a problem.

mttwlsn16
02-08-2011, 08:45 AM
lol @ batum calling someone out

justinnum1
02-08-2011, 09:07 AM
He's got a point :shrug:

justinnum1
02-08-2011, 09:09 AM
If you think LBJ is great look at when he plays Paul Pierce ...PP gives him damn near 30 evry time...espically in big games...Melo feasts on LBJ...

You think Wade is lock down? I remember a time when Tmac,Kobe and maybe 1 other use to B**** him.

CP3 is a pure Pg,not in the same discusion but i understand that more...but Rose kills him.

What im saying is Great hoopers just have to have intangibles & be able to make a play when needed. LBJ is god vs a bum...why? because he is lightning this guy up and they gotta get him off LBJ or he may foul out...90% of the time its a one way street,and its not solely due to defense its more of the pressure stopping an LBJ. LBJ vs PP/or another elite guy is a a stand still,comes down to hottest team.

LBJ vs Batuum: LBJ clearly wins. LBJ drops 50 Batuum drops 7...reason is Batumm cant stop LBJ so he gets very few ticks or he fouls out,therefore LBJ doesnt have to expand as much energy on the defense end because he clearly owns the matchup and the trailblazer has to look elsewhere for scoring,because they need the man guarding LBJ to focus soley on him.

FYI..The BEST PLAYER IN THE NBA IS DWIGHT HOWARD...HE IMPACTS THE PAINT ON BOTH ENDS 100%..directly at the rim

:facepalm: You clearly know nothing about basketball...do you even watch games?
You talking **** about a guy who won the mvp last 2 years. Stop hating and get a life

zambo4president
02-08-2011, 09:22 AM
Batum's one of my favorite non-Bulls, but he can kiss da baby with this one. Rose isn't a great defender, and he'll probably never make an all-defensive team, but he's in no way a liability to the team, which is why it's weird Batum would even say anything. He's completely off base in saying so. And to the guy that said Bulls fans are just like Cubs fans, No ****, we're the same fan base.

xabial
02-08-2011, 09:25 AM
Derrick rose can still fly his team into the postseason, can you do that Batum?

beasted86
02-08-2011, 09:39 AM
Batum speaks truth.

Rose sucks d*** on defense.

BALLER R
02-08-2011, 09:40 AM
This what i don't get about half the people on here why you guys bringing up things that don't matter. Hey i like D rose but the man said he doesn't play defense.

Why are you guys coming with the whole so what he has in team in the playoff or who the **** is batum. that does not matter thats not the point of the quote it clearly says he can't play defense so why are people saying so what he great offensively. that not the point. its so hard to have a a thread on here where you can have good arguments without people bringing up irrelevant sh**.
It's either yes hes right or no hes not and then state why you don't agree. bringing up his team has nothing to do with this because the quote was not the bulls can't play defense so where are they being used in this.

For the record im a fan of rose i like his game and yeah batum is right to some degree but i think rose's defense is improving. will he become a lockdown defender only time will tell.

TheWatcher34
02-08-2011, 09:48 AM
Batum >> Rose < Rondo

dnewguy
02-08-2011, 09:56 AM
Rose can't play defense but he is the leader of the team with the best defense in the league. Batum must not have been watching Rose, Rose is a top 3 pg defender in the league IMO.

JordansBulls
02-08-2011, 10:01 AM
He is a decent Defensive player but not a great one.

Chicagofaithful
02-08-2011, 10:02 AM
lol well if everyone thinks batum is in a position to be commenting on defense then i'd like to point out he just let derrick rose go off on him tonight every single time he tried to pick rose up he got burnt to the hoop. but i guess we'll just overlook that and bash rose cuz why break the PSD cycle?

Glenfidish
02-08-2011, 10:13 AM
Here is my 2 cents. The league needs to step up and start imposing serious fines to players who start talking **** about other players. This is not good behaviour at all for the players and there image but more impotantly the reputation of the league. Its getting out of hand now with the recent comments of durant against bosh. Also when shaq called bosh the rupaul of basketball. Even if there is truth to the matter some players can be taking things to personal. I say fine there *** and make them shut there mouth and play what your payed to do, that is produce on the court and not with your mouth.

NIUHuskies
02-08-2011, 10:17 AM
Here is my 2 cents. The league needs to step up and start imposing serious fines to players who start talking **** about other players. This is not good behaviour at all for the players and there image but more impotantly the reputation of the league. Its getting out of hand now with the recent comments of durant against bosh. Also when shaq called bosh the rupaul of basketball. Even if there is truth to the matter some players can be taking things to personal. I say fine there *** and make them shut there mouth and play what your payed to do, that is produce on the court and not with your mouth.

Trash talk adds to the story lines and gives people something to talk about between games. These players are already neutered enough with all the NBA rules. Why is this a problem? If you don't like it then don't tune in until tip-off. Basketball is an emotional game and this helps add to that.

heyman321
02-08-2011, 10:20 AM
What's the big deal? It's true.

jtsunami
02-08-2011, 10:21 AM
Allen is an amazing defender. Bosh is also a very good defender, not on the others level but hes still top tier.


rose will neVer be a superstar


Batum speaks truth.

Rose sucks d*** on defense.


Batum >> Rose < Rondo

:laugh:

I can't tell who's serious and who's not in this thread. Well, I know beasted is serious :pity:

So the #1 defense in the NBA has Boozer and Rose getting the 2nd and 3rd most minutes. But somehow BOTH of them are awful defenders. That doesn't quite add up.

I mean, why does Batum even go there? Why not say Boozer can't play defense? All I know is that Rose is gonna **** on the Blazers next year.

ChiDougie19
02-08-2011, 10:43 AM
but yet hes just average at both....once he takes control of his team in some way please then open up yo mouth...or twitter that is

Southsideheat
02-08-2011, 11:05 AM
Batum, just like the Blazers, no one cares.

justinnum1
02-08-2011, 11:11 AM
:laugh:

I can't tell who's serious and who's not in this thread. Well, I know beasted is serious :pity:

So the #1 defense in the NBA has Boozer and Rose getting the 2nd and 3rd most minutes. But somehow BOTH of them are awful defenders. That doesn't quite add up.

I mean, why does Batum even go there? Why not say Boozer can't play defense? All I know is that Rose is gonna **** on the Blazers next year.

Everyone knows this already :shrug:

ragee
02-08-2011, 11:11 AM
lol well if everyone thinks batum is in a position to be commenting on defense then i'd like to point out he just let derrick rose go off on him tonight every single time he tried to pick rose up he got burnt to the hoop. but i guess we'll just overlook that and bash rose cuz why break the PSD cycle?

Rose blow past everyone... Batum is a small forward... I am sure he is much slower than Rose...

ChiDougie19
02-08-2011, 11:21 AM
he's been progessin every yr he'll get there as however we all kno batum is wat batum is goin 2 b

Raph12
02-08-2011, 11:22 AM
Batum's an amazing wing defender, so he has grounds to talk.

Rose backers will point to his elite "opponents production" numbers that he's posting this season, and others will say that this is largely a product of the fact that despite his moderate improvements defensively from pathetic to moderate, he is still benefiting hugely from the 6 or so more competent defenders on his team (ala Ray Allen when he went to Boston).

Thib has done great work for him and the entire Bulls team, but if Batum is comparing Rose to players like himself on the defensive end - then yes, relatively, he 'can't play defense'.

This

Pierzynski4Prez
02-08-2011, 11:28 AM
Sure, Miller had a good line. Turns out Rose's was even better. Maybe Batum should be preaching D to his own teammates, and not to guys in a different conference.

Bullsfan22
02-08-2011, 11:33 AM
lol well if everyone thinks batum is in a position to be commenting on defense then i'd like to point out he just let derrick rose go off on him tonight every single time he tried to pick rose up he got burnt to the hoop. but i guess we'll just overlook that and bash rose cuz why break the PSD cycle?

So true:laugh2:

ugafan
02-08-2011, 11:34 AM
Andre Miller dropped 27 points on him...

Hustlenomics
02-08-2011, 11:34 AM
well this was known esp after ellis and curry torched him and then miller torched him last night

justinnum1
02-08-2011, 11:39 AM
Andre Miller dropped 27 points on him...

damn...Miller can get hot, he had a 50pt game last season.

Pierzynski4Prez
02-08-2011, 11:46 AM
Andre Miller dropped 27 points on him...

Rose dropped 36 on Miller. What's your point?

Corey
02-08-2011, 11:58 AM
Rose dropped 36 on Miller. What's your point?

His point (which you actually just MADE for him, coincidentally enough) is that Rose is much more offensive minded than defensive minded.

The fact that you just brought up how much Rose scored put the cherry on top.

SteBO
02-08-2011, 11:59 AM
Rose dropped 36 on Miller. What's your point?
It really doesn't mean anything except miller had a good game. :shrug:

tbone2171
02-08-2011, 11:59 AM
Who the **** is Batum?

Funny he questions someones defense when he flops like a fish. Get in the weight room son.

Your second comment contradicts your question. You obviously know who he is.

koreancabbage
02-08-2011, 12:02 PM
Your second comment contradicts your question. You obviously know who he is.

this lol

justinnum1
02-08-2011, 12:05 PM
Your second comment contradicts your question. You obviously know who he is.

lol :burn:

Southsideheat
02-08-2011, 12:08 PM
His point (which you actually just MADE for him, coincidentally enough) is that Rose is much more offensive minded than defensive minded.

Rose and 99% of the NBA.

DaBUU
02-08-2011, 12:08 PM
Your second comment contradicts your question. You obviously know who he is.

this is the funniest reply post i've ever read. i mean really, how did you come up with that great comeback?

nitric
02-08-2011, 12:10 PM
His point (which you actually just MADE for him, coincidentally enough) is that Rose is much more offensive minded than defensive minded.

The fact that you just brought up how much Rose scored put the cherry on top.

Rose dropped 36 on Rondo. man Rondo can't play D :facepalm:

DaBUU
02-08-2011, 12:10 PM
this lol

man you are a joke of an nba fan (so called nba fan i guess)

DaBUU
02-08-2011, 12:11 PM
Rose dropped 36 on Rondo. man Rondo can't play D :facepalm:

no big deal anymore, Rose does that regularly to Rondos elite defense, LOL

Minimal
02-08-2011, 12:19 PM
Rose dropped 36 on Rondo. man Rondo can't play D :facepalm:
This topic is about Rose's defense, not Rajon Rondo defense, we all know Rondo is great defensive player.
On topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5VUiIO-ue4
Rose was letting Rondo average a triple double in the playoffs, defense much?
Rose might improved, but not much.

nitric
02-08-2011, 12:23 PM
This topic is about Rose's defense, not Rajon Rondo defense, we all know Rondo is great defensive player.
On topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5VUiIO-ue4
Rose was letting Rondo average a triple double in the playoffs, defense much?
Rose might improved, but not much.

So one game is a bigger sample size than the first half of the season? And are you really bringing up Roses defense as a ROOKIE in the PLAYOFFS? Everyone knows Rose was an awful defender his first two years. People still think he is terrible when he's not. Just to think you couldn't sink any lower than before :facepalm:

hugepatsfan
02-08-2011, 12:25 PM
Rose is an improved defender this year. But there's still a lot of room between where he is and a good defender. Obviously he's still a great player, but he is not very good on D.

tangent12
02-08-2011, 12:28 PM
Well he is STILL considered an elite player and superstar even when he's called a poor defender by a worthless piece of garbage nobody, so that tells you how great and special Rose truly is. :)

It's pretty amazing when you think about it.

Minimal
02-08-2011, 12:32 PM
So one game is a bigger sample size than the first half of the season? And are you really bringing up Roses defense as a ROOKIE in the PLAYOFFS? Everyone knows Rose was an awful defender his first two years. People still think he is terrible when he's not. Just to think you couldn't sink any lower than before :facepalm:
I brought example of 5 playoff games where Rajon averaged triple double against Rose. Didn't you brought example of one game with "Rose dropped 36 points on Rondo"? I can say the same: Rondo dished 19 assists against Rose this season, defense? Don't think so.
Oh and don't bother replying to me, you are the last person I care to get a reply from.

Bullsfan22
02-08-2011, 12:32 PM
Rose is an improved defender this year. But there's still a lot of room between where he is and a good defender. Obviously he's still a great player, but he is not very good on D.

Kudos to you for being first objective poster in here that's not looking to pile on Rose with negativity but criticize while evaluating his whole body of work. :clap:

jp611
02-08-2011, 12:33 PM
actually rose has become a much better defender in his 3rd season... who the hell is nicholas batum anyway? hes a scrub

JayTee1981
02-08-2011, 12:34 PM
Another Derrick Rose thread??? Get off his ballz bro.

I second that

ManRam
02-08-2011, 12:35 PM
Rose's defense is what holds him back from being the best PG in the league. Guys like Rondo and Paul are absolutely elite defenders...and defense matters absolutely. It's half the game.

heatking
02-08-2011, 12:36 PM
hmmm... i think we knew this already Batum.

DITKA4GOV
02-08-2011, 12:40 PM
I admit D.Rose doesn't deserve consideration for All-D team, but his D is far from terrible. It has improved every year he has been in the league, with his biggest improvement coming over the past summer with Team USA. Batum saying anything is mind boggling. He is nothing more than a borderline role player on a sub-par (and injury riddled) team. I'm still taking Rose's D over anything Batum does.

Batum is a typical imported basketball player with his flopping as well. Reminds me of Nocioni with the slight contact and he's already on the floor.

And I do agree Chicago sports have been pretty sad the past couple weeks.....but things are looking up. Noah back soon!

stlbest5in2013
02-08-2011, 12:40 PM
why are heat fans so obsessed with the bulls??????

is it because we got derrick rose, then you got beasley?

the draft was not rigged, and even if it was the city of miami doesnt even deserve any pro franchises to begin with. their fans only support the team at hope games, when they are expected to be good.

The Final Boss
02-08-2011, 12:41 PM
The Bulls and Heat, two irrelevant franchises caught up in the rapture of love.

Tarheels23
02-08-2011, 12:42 PM
Batum is right, but he has no business saying that

xxdc2tegxx
02-08-2011, 12:43 PM
Taken overboard...but obviously Batum has some type of motive behind this haha he just needs to relax.

It's like saying nash is a great offensive player but sucks at defense
or Kobe is an all-around phenomenal player but his explosiveness is now garbage
or Dwight is a great defensive player but his offense is lacking...

There just wasnt any reason for him to talk about this lol

justinnum1
02-08-2011, 12:46 PM
actually rose has become a much better defender in his 3rd season... who the hell is nicholas batum anyway? hes a scrub

:facepalm: No, he's not.

jiggin
02-08-2011, 12:48 PM
Originally Posted by jpro611 View Post
actually rose has become a much better defender in his 3rd season... who the hell is nicholas batum anyway? hes a scrub


:facepalm: No, he's not.

I just try and and ignore people and comments like that on this board. A person who makes that kind of statement is obviously showing he knows very little about the NBA and other players outside of Chicago.

Cubs Win
02-08-2011, 12:49 PM
Sure Rose could improve on Defense (and I'm sure he will), but Batum is a nobody. Why's he talking?

Too bad once Rose does improve his defense he won't be able to show Batum by locking him down. Because Batum isn't enough of a threat offensively to warrant a lockdown defender being put on him.

Yunqn
02-08-2011, 12:49 PM
This is exactly what I wanted to hear..
Thanks batum.. U just gave this kid something to work on like last year with his jumpshot..

Expect rose to want to improve.
And for a guy like batum to say it, I don't think he was being negative either so other bulls fans need to chill, its not like he was mjd vs jay cutler,and It means everything to a player when another one talks about them.. Not the media..rose is goina wanna change this perception about him so he can be known as the best..

Baller1
02-08-2011, 12:51 PM
Batum's going to be the most hated man in Chicago for simply stating something everyone already knew.

Cubs Win
02-08-2011, 12:51 PM
Also, how is this thread still up? If I posted a tweet from some player about Rose's greatness in the NBA forum it sure wouldn't be up this long. :eyebrow:

bodupp311
02-08-2011, 12:51 PM
Derrick Rose's Drtg is 103. Improved from 113 his first year & 109 his second year. His DWS(Defensive win shares) has improved from a 1.5 to a 2.9.

HE HAS GOTTEN BETTER DEFENSIVELY EACH YEAR. Significantly so this year. Elite? No. Much better? Yes. And with Thibs teaching him there's no reason to believe he cant be elite.

Did he have a bad defensive game last night? Yes.

Enough with the ignorant bashing of Derrick Rose or the oh-so clever back-handed "compliments". If you dont like him, dont post in a thread pertaining to him.

This thread was NOT created by a Bulls fans, so there goes that excuse as well.

Trace
02-08-2011, 12:54 PM
I don't know why you guys are hating on Batum. He was just simply stating what happened last night.

nitric
02-08-2011, 12:54 PM
Batum's going to be the most hated man in Chicago for simply stating something everyone already knew.

At least you have something in your sig that no one agrees with

Hiphopopotamus
02-08-2011, 12:55 PM
I'm a bulls fan (full disclosure). This is is just silly. Rose has improved, but has work to do on the defensive end, obviously. He is a great offensive player. Batum (who is not a scrub and a really good wing defender) isn't wrong, it just doesn't need to be said. I think this benefits Rose though, he has made a point thus far in his career to prove people wrong and seek revenge. He seems mild mannered, but he makes a list and keeps names. It probably won't matter for Batum this season as neither team will likely make the finals, but just saying Rose has proven at 22 not to be a player you rip on.

yoseppii12
02-08-2011, 12:56 PM
Batum is right. Rose's D is not that good. He gets steals and blocks purely out of athleticism. I compare Rose to LBJ alot because of their combination of speed, quickness, strength, size for their positions. Lebron in the beginning was much of the same as DRose is now on D.

I think this should be Rose's goal next summer to be a good defender. I mean if he could completely change his 3 point shooting whose to say he can't improve his defense more. I am not worried at this point because unless we make a move for a quality shooting guard (ie; 2nd best/3rd best scorer on our team so pretty good) then we aren't contenders, not even for the ECF bound so we got time. Rose is young and if anything it makes me so happy that Batum says this. Thank you Batum, this is the stuff players and coaches like Rose and Thibs get fired up for. This is something Rose prints out and puts at the top of his locker so everytime before and after practice he sees it. Encourage the Bulls, aint nothing wrong with that.

And Batum is not a scrub. I wanted the Bulls to get him last year or 2 yrs ago when their were rumors he might be out. Good length at his height.

Bullsfan22
02-08-2011, 01:00 PM
Batum's going to be the most hated man in Chicago for simply stating something everyone already knew.

You agree that "he can't stick defense"? It just seems like he used a poor choice of words to me. I Think all reasonable Bulls fan agree he's not a great defender but to say he "can't stick defense" because of one game is off. Thibs his coach has already said he has made major strides this year.

Pierzynski4Prez
02-08-2011, 01:00 PM
This topic is about Rose's defense, not Rajon Rondo defense, we all know Rondo is great defensive player.
On topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5VUiIO-ue4
Rose was letting Rondo average a triple double in the playoffs, defense much?
Rose might improved, but not much.

Wait, so you're saying its possible to have an off-game defensively? What is the point to this thread then?

beasted86
02-08-2011, 01:03 PM
I think Bosh is a better defender than Rose, and Bosh isn't a very good defender at all.

Just average.

Pierzynski4Prez
02-08-2011, 01:04 PM
good for bosh.

Cool007
02-08-2011, 01:05 PM
Batum is a great defender??? News to me.

Deng of all people just dropped 40 on him earlier this year. Batum is the last person who should say anything about defense.

Rose was just torching him so Blazers switched from Batum to Wes Mathews and Rose torched him as well.

I couldn't find a single defensive stat that favored Batum over Rose.

Opponents PER, Blocks, Steals, Opponents efg%, Defensive Rating, Defensive Win Shares...All favor Rose over Pippen 2.0 (Batum).

Really? batum??? Don't you think a player might have a bad game - or just Bulls as a whole (#1 defensive team) may have just had a bad game???

Batum is just talking **** as he knows that they are not facing Bulls until next season. Freaking puss.

footballer2369
02-08-2011, 01:06 PM
Chicago fans don't take criticism too well. This thread is pointless though. It's run its course.

bodupp311
02-08-2011, 01:06 PM
I think Bosh is a better defender than Rose, and Bosh isn't a very good defender at all.

Just average.

Pathetic.

beasted86
02-08-2011, 01:06 PM
Also, how is this thread still up? If I posted a tweet from some player about Rose's greatness in the NBA forum it sure wouldn't be up this long. :eyebrow:

Ah, shaddap...

You Heat haters have like 500 10+ page hate threads on us since the summer alone based on one line tweets or article snippets.

justinnum1
02-08-2011, 01:08 PM
Ah, shaddap...

You Heat haters have like 500 10+ page hate threads on us since the summer alone based on one line tweets or article snippets.

This...Bulls fans can talk **** and hate on lebron all day long but when a negative fact about rose is being discussed, the thread needs to be closed:rolleyes:

Chi City23
02-08-2011, 01:09 PM
I think the wording he used, "he can't play defense", is a little harsh. Rose can play defense but not very good. He's defense is moderate but still needs a lot of work. Team run him into a lot of screens but I think his 1-on-1 defense is decent because of his athletism and strength.

bodupp311
02-08-2011, 01:11 PM
Batum is a great defender??? News to me.

Deng of all people just dropped 40 on him earlier this year. Batum is the last person who should say anything about defense.

Rose was just torching him so Blazers switched from Batum to Wes Mathews and Rose torched him as well.

I couldn't find a single defensive stat that favored Batum over Rose.

Opponents PER, Blocks, Steals, Opponents efg%, Defensive Rating, Defensive Win Shares...All favor Rose over Pippen 2.0 (Batum).

Really? batum??? Don't you think a player might have a bad game - or just Bulls as a whole (#1 defensive team) may have just had a bad game???

Batum is just talking **** as he knows that they are not facing Bulls until next season. Freaking puss.

Dont bother. I tried using advances stats as well. And it got...


:cricket:


Derrick Rose's defense sucks. Or he's just average. Or ___ is a better defender than Rose. THOSE are acceptable.

He cant possibly get any better defensively(even those stats say otherwise). Its not like The Bulls have a defensive-minded coach to help him either.

I say trade him... but who am I kidding? Noone would take him.

bodupp311
02-08-2011, 01:13 PM
This...Bulls fans can talk **** and hate on lebron all day long but when a negative fact about rose is being discussed, the thread needs to be closed:rolleyes:

Wrong.

Cool007
02-08-2011, 01:14 PM
Guess what This same Miller dropped 40+ on Rondo last year - no-one ever said anything about Rondo being a bad defender. Rose scored a career high 39 on Rondo last year, 36 this year again. But NO ONE says anything about how Rondo is bad at defense.

But Rose has one bad game (although it was pretty pathetic team defense) with Aldridge going ape **** on Bulls and their pick and Roll with Aldridge and Miller and when you have Boozer and 100 year old Kurt Thomas guarding, it happens.

People just like to BASH everything for no reason. 1 bad game.

Do you want me to bring up all the games where Rose put HURT on miller??? The same miller scored 7 points on 2-6 shooting earlier this year - where was Batum them???

A Scrub talking ****??? It's almost like Calderon talking about someone else's defense. Garbage.

beasted86
02-08-2011, 01:16 PM
Advanced statistics? That's what you guys are trying to use to back your response?

You do know Michael Beasley was one of the best defenders in the NBA at any position last season based on "advanced statistics". He was in the top 20-30 in basically every stat.

Blocks, steals, and advanced stats don't really paint a proper picture. Watch the game, see how teams run offense against certain players, see how a guy makes rotations off the ball, see the stops he comes up with, see how many times help defense has to double his man, see how he picks up his fouls, see who gets voted on the defensive teams.... then, and only afterward, maybe take a look at what the advanced stats and blocks, steals, and defensive rebounds say.

bodupp311
02-08-2011, 01:19 PM
Advanced statistics? That's what you guys are trying to use to back your response?

You do know Michael Beasley was one of the best defenders in the NBA at any position last season based on "advanced statistics". He was in the top 20-30 in basically every stat.

Blocks, steals, and advanced stats don't really paint a proper picture. Watch the game, see how teams run offense against certain players, see how a guy makes rotations off the ball, see the stops he comes up with, see how many times help defense has to double his man, see how he picks up his fouls, see who gets voted on the defensive teams.... then, and only afterward, maybe take a look at what the advanced stats and blocks, steals, and defensive rebounds say.

It DOES make sense when he improves defensively. Which he has.

Baller1
02-08-2011, 01:21 PM
You agree that "he can't stick defense"? It just seems like he used a poor choice of words to me. I Think all reasonable Bulls fan agree he's not a great defender but to say he "can't stick defense" because of one game is off. Thibs his coach has already said he has made major strides this year.

You're right, the word choice might be a bit suspect, but the message is still the same. His incredible offensive abilities overshadow his deficiencies on defense. He relies on athleticism to make plays on the defensive end (not that that's exactly a bad thing), while his actual defensive tendencies and abilities are not very good.

The word choice could have been better though, I agree with you there.

Baller1
02-08-2011, 01:23 PM
Guess what This same Miller dropped 40+ on Rondo last year - no-one ever said anything about Rondo being a bad defender. Rose scored a career high 39 on Rondo last year, 36 this year again. But NO ONE says anything about how Rondo is bad at defense.

But Rose has one bad game (although it was pretty pathetic team defense) with Aldridge going ape **** on Bulls and their pick and Roll with Aldridge and Miller and when you have Boozer and 100 year old Kurt Thomas guarding, it happens.

People just like to BASH everything for no reason. 1 bad game.

Do you want me to bring up all the games where Rose put HURT on miller??? The same miller scored 7 points on 2-6 shooting earlier this year - where was Batum them???

A Scrub talking ****??? It's almost like Calderon talking about someone else's defense. Garbage.

1. Batum is not a scrub.
2. It's not like that at all.

tangent12
02-08-2011, 01:23 PM
I really hope Rose forgives some of you after he dies on the cross for our sins.

bulls_world23
02-08-2011, 01:24 PM
Can everyone get off the bulls nuts.

beasted86
02-08-2011, 01:27 PM
It DOES make sense when he improves defensively. Which he has.

Yeah, and Beasley sure did improve defensively from his Rookie season. He went from trash to elite in the NBA in one season. :rolleyes:

Rose has made decent improvements in his defense, but the advanced statistics lie about his defense. His defense is closer to average now, but still very far from what an MVP candidate's D should look like.

AddiX
02-08-2011, 01:27 PM
I really hope Rose forgives some of you after he dies on the cross for our sins.

lol

Minimal
02-08-2011, 01:28 PM
Batum wouldn't have made that comment if Rose wasn't considered an MVP caliber player and arguably the best PG in the league. He just put him on his place by stating a fact, but in a bit harsh way. What he ment is Rose can play defense, but he is not a good defender. Yet everyone ***** on Batum, because he said a fact? Batum is a great defender and a great player, I believe he is the only SF who had a block against LeBron this season and has all rights to say such things about Rose.

justinnum1
02-08-2011, 01:35 PM
:yawn:

Bullsfan22
02-08-2011, 01:35 PM
You're right, the word choice might be a bit suspect, but the message is still the same. His incredible offensive abilities overshadow his deficiencies on defense. He relies on athleticism to make plays on the defensive end (not that that's exactly a bad thing), while his actual defensive tendencies and abilities are not very good.

The word choice could have been better though, I agree with you there.

Fair enough.

hugepatsfan
02-08-2011, 01:35 PM
This is exactly what I wanted to hear..
Thanks batum.. U just gave this kid something to work on like last year with his jumpshot..

Expect rose to want to improve.
And for a guy like batum to say it, I don't think he was being negative either so other bulls fans need to chill, its not like he was mjd vs jay cutler,and It means everything to a player when another one talks about them.. Not the media..rose is goina wanna change this perception about him so he can be known as the best..

I would think that Rose was interested in improving his D before this...

BrahCake954
02-08-2011, 01:36 PM
152 posts? lmaoooo

bulls fans

barreleffact
02-08-2011, 01:37 PM
Rose's defense is what holds him back from being the best PG in the league. Guys like Rondo and Paul are absolutely elite defenders...and defense matters absolutely. It's half the game.

umm defense AND efficiency. CP3 is dangerously close to 50-40-90 and averages less than 2 TO per game. I think Rose is the most dominant considering his offensive talent, but skillwise rose doesnt hold a candle to paul's efficiency

bodupp311
02-08-2011, 01:37 PM
Yeah, and Beasley sure did improve defensively from his Rookie season. He went from trash to elite in the NBA in one season. :rolleyes:

Rose has made decent improvements in his defense, but the advanced statistics lie about his defense. His defense is closer to average now, but still very far from what an MVP candidate's D should look like.

Did I say he has elite or even close to it? Nope. HE IS IMPROVING.

Derrick said he'd improve his jump shot. He did.

Derrick said he'd improve hit 3pt shot. He did.

Derrick said he'll improve his defense. He is.

And news flash: His head coach is a defensive guru. Now what points you to him CONTINUING to be average?

I suspect Derrick's work ethic is better than Beasleys... but I'm afraid you'd argue with me on that. I'm glad I have Derrick on my team b/c everything he's said he'd work on & improve he did. If you want to continue to argue over nonsense then have it. I honestly dont know why you're here seemingly looking for a fight. Why not enjoy having a great team(which you do) instead of worrying about players on other teams?

Bullsfan22
02-08-2011, 01:38 PM
Advanced statistics? That's what you guys are trying to use to back your response?

You do know Michael Beasley was one of the best defenders in the NBA at any position last season based on "advanced statistics". He was in the top 20-30 in basically every stat.

Blocks, steals, and advanced stats don't really paint a proper picture. Watch the game, see how teams run offense against certain players, see how a guy makes rotations off the ball, see the stops he comes up with, see how many times help defense has to double his man, see how he picks up his fouls, see who gets voted on the defensive teams.... then, and only afterward, maybe take a look at what the advanced stats and blocks, steals, and defensive rebounds say.

Last year Beasley came off the bench. If Beasley's stats is the same this then your point is valid..

Cool007
02-08-2011, 01:39 PM
Some of you are just accepting what Batum said??? :facepalm:

Where was Batum when Rose schooled Miller? Where was Batum when Rose played great defense and had Miller with 7-points on 2-6 shooting earlier this year?

Where was Batum when Deng scored 40 points on him earlier this year??? How soon he forgets.

FWIW: Miller ACTUALLY scored about 14-points on Rose yesterday - Is that a bad defense??? Really???

Miller scored 6 points on CJ Watson when Rose was resting. Miller scored 6 points on the free throws with intentional fouling at the end. And 1 was the technical foul free throw.

Batum needs to pay attention to game before opening his mouth because he is way off. He should have just looked at the other game as well from earlier in the year vs Bulls.

DITKA4GOV
02-08-2011, 01:41 PM
It is mind blowing to call Rose a bad defender when Deng drops 40 on you. Maybe Batum is not a scrub, just has a short memory. To bad Deng didn't decide to rip Batum on his twitter account. Thibs, Coach K, statistics, all say Rose's d has improved. Athletic ability or not, Drose is the PG on the number 1 defense in the league right now, which has been missing there only semi-possible defensive player of the year canidate out with an injury. Coach Thibs scheme along with the players he uses in that scheme must be doing something right so far.

Topic: Batum from the BLAZERS calls out Rose from the BULLS pointing out that D.Rose "can't play D." Reaction is what is given on message boards. What the **** does that have to do with the HEAT or comparisons to Beasley or Bosh?

bodupp311
02-08-2011, 01:41 PM
:yawn:

Must suck to be held against your will and read & post in Bulls threads.

hugepatsfan
02-08-2011, 01:42 PM
Why do Bulls fans take a pretty obvious flaw in Rose's game as a low blow? This is a pretty clear statement here. He's obviously a great player, but his D is bad. Not real hard to admit there.

kobe24>lebron23
02-08-2011, 01:43 PM
So batum is hating on the MVP lol

beasted86
02-08-2011, 01:44 PM
And news flash: His head coach is a defensive guru. Now what points you to him CONTINUING to be average?

I suspect Derrick's work ethic is better than Beasleys... but I'm afraid you'd argue with me on that. I'm glad I have Derrick on my team b/c everything he's said he'd work on & improve he did. If you want to continue to argue over nonsense then have it. I honestly dont know why you're here seemingly looking for a fight. Why not enjoy having a great team(which you do) instead of worrying about players on other teams?

Um, Spoelstra is a great defensive coach... and Beasley did indeed make improvements over the time he was with the Heat which also did indeed show up in advanced statistics... my whole point for the comparison to show that even with steady improvement and a good coach, Beasley still at this moment is not a good defender, regardless of advanced statistics saying he was a top 25 defender last season.

Rose while better than Beasley is also not a good defender. We all are in this thread simply to comment and agree or disagree with Batum's statement.

I agree. Rose is not a good defender at all, and at times has looked really sucky. And no, I'm not worrying about the Bulls very much at all. I just felt like throwing in a few jabs to annoy the Bulls fans who are constantly trolling the Heat & NBA forums for anything negative about the Heat. There are certain obvious truths and deficiencies every team and player has... but Bulls fans feel the need to over-exaggerate every one on the Heat... just thought it would be nice for you guys to get some of it in return today.

bodupp311
02-08-2011, 01:44 PM
Why do Bulls fans take a pretty obvious flaw in Rose's game as a low blow? This is a pretty clear statement here. He's obviously a great player, but his D is bad. Not real hard to admit there.

What do other fans post in Bulls/Rose threads *****ing about Rose & claiming something as fact with no proof?

Minimal
02-08-2011, 01:46 PM
So batum is hating on the MVP lol
No, he is stating fact, why he shouldn't be an MVP.

Bullsfan22
02-08-2011, 01:46 PM
Why do Bulls fans take a pretty obvious flaw in Rose's game as a low blow? This is a pretty clear statement here. He's obviously a great player, but his D is bad. Not real hard to admit there.

I take my kudos away maybe you did a bad job of being completely ignorant to "fit in". Rose is not a bad defender.

Eh I'm done posting in this thread it's no use.

BrahCake954
02-08-2011, 01:48 PM
bulls fans are really upset with this?

lolol

wow

beasted86
02-08-2011, 01:49 PM
bulls fans are really upset with this?

lolol

wow

Yes, it seems they are quite enraged.

Cool007
02-08-2011, 01:50 PM
No, he is stating fact, why he shouldn't be an MVP.

When did that become a FACT???

Everything points to how Rose has become a good defender this year and not just raw stats but also advanced stats back it up as well.

Not to mention the synergy reports (the most advanced play by play stats) also back it up as well.

Or you guys just want to talk out of your rear end? Coz that scouting report is like 2 years old.

It's like me saying Kobe is a defensive shut down defender right now or LeBron is a pretty bad defender etc.

Those are OLD scouting reports - you guys need to be updated and not listen to some scrub.

Cubs Win
02-08-2011, 01:50 PM
Here's what people need to understand. Bulls fans are by no means saying Rose is a great defender. However, he is without a doubt an IMPROVED defender this year. If he is able to make the same strides next year as he has this year, it would be incredible. That would put him at a 97 DRTG next season. He is on pace for 4.8 DWS this year, up from 2.5 last year. Another year at that improvement would put him at 7.1 DWS.

For a reference point, Chris Paul has never posted a DRTG below 100 and has never had more than 5.0 DWS.

DITKA4GOV
02-08-2011, 01:51 PM
Didn't Nash win MVP before. I don't remember him being a def. stud? So he is not stating fact!

Cool007
02-08-2011, 01:52 PM
bulls fans are really upset with this?

lolol

wow

Yes because IT IS COMPLETELY FALSE statement. Something that is uneducated so far this year.

Batum has a VERY SHORT memory.

bodupp311
02-08-2011, 01:53 PM
Um, Spoelstra is a great defensive coach... and Beasley did indeed make improvements over the time he was with the Heat which also did indeed show up in advanced statistics... my whole point for the comparison to show that even with steady improvement and a good coach, Beasley still at this moment is not a good defender, regardless of advanced statistics saying he was a top 25 defender last season.

Rose while better than Beasley is also not a good defender. We all are in this thread simply to comment and agree or disagree with Batum's statement.

I agree. Rose is not a good defender at all, and at times has looked really sucky. And no, I'm not worrying about the Bulls very much at all. I just felt like throwing in a few jabs to annoy the Bulls fans who are constantly trolling the Heat & NBA forums for anything negative about the Heat.

And he was traded. So, for all you know, Beasley couldve turned into a good defender. THE EXACT POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE. Derrick has the ethic & coach to turn into a great defender. My stats were to show that improvement IS taking place. Simple as that.



And how many times have I trolled Heat/Nba forums looking for(or posting) something negative?....

0.

I'm here to defend MY favorite player on my favorite team. Nothing more, nothing less. I dont post in anything non-Bulls... and never will.

D1JM
02-08-2011, 01:54 PM
Batum forgot deng scored 40 on him. Deng of all people.

ChitownSports16
02-08-2011, 01:55 PM
LoL let the Hate begin!!!

ChitownSports16
02-08-2011, 01:56 PM
Batum forgot deng scored 40 on him. Deng of all people.

Very true

BrahCake954
02-08-2011, 01:58 PM
Yes, it seems they are quite enraged.

hide the knives

beasted86
02-08-2011, 02:00 PM
Batum forgot deng scored 40 on him. Deng of all people.

Yeah, Batum has no room to talk getting destroyed by Luol Deng.

I remember that game: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AvRfGraP.uKOV3muKb02vKL4PKB4?gid=201 0110104

Deng scored 40 points in 40 minutes, and Batum played 17 minutes... but he sure dropped all them points on his head. Batum, such a scrub!

BrahCake954
02-08-2011, 02:01 PM
Batum forgot deng scored 40 on him. Deng of all people.

just to correct you, batum didnt start early on, he was benched.. im pretty sure he didnt drop 40 all on him..he only played 18 mins that game...

next excuse? :facepalm:

Cubs Win
02-08-2011, 02:02 PM
Yeah, Batum has no room to talk getting destroyed by Luol Deng.

I remember that game: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AvRfGraP.uKOV3muKb02vKL4PKB4?gid=201 0110104

Deng scored 40 points in 40 minutes, and Batum played 17 minutes... but he sure dropped all them points on his head. Batum, such a scrub!

I'm sure Batum would have played more if he could have guarded Deng...

bodupp311
02-08-2011, 02:03 PM
Yeah, Batum has no room to talk getting destroyed by Luol Deng.

I remember that game: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AvRfGraP.uKOV3muKb02vKL4PKB4?gid=201 0110104

Deng scored 40 points in 40 minutes, and Batum played 17 minutes... but he sure dropped all them points on his head. Batum, such a scrub!

So, you ARE looking for a fight? Real nice. Way to be level-headed.


Oh well, I tried.

beasted86
02-08-2011, 02:08 PM
So, you ARE looking for a fight? Real nice. Way to be level-headed.


Oh well, I tried.

What's not level headed about posting FACTS to dispute OPINIONS?

The facts prove Deng didn't score all of that on Batum. Batum is not an elite defender, and I'm not trusting his word over anybody, because he's telling us something we already know.

Rose is not a good defender, regardless of his improvements.

bodupp311
02-08-2011, 02:09 PM
just to correct you, batum didnt start early on, he was benched.. im pretty sure he didnt drop 40 all on him..he only played 18 mins that game...

next excuse? :facepalm:

Sarcasm must confuse the piss out of you.

BrahCake954
02-08-2011, 02:10 PM
Sarcasm must confuse the piss out of you.

u have no idea what youre talking about

just look at my sig and soak it all in ..

jiggin
02-08-2011, 02:13 PM
Taken overboard...but obviously Batum has some type of motive behind this haha he just needs to relax.


could it be that he is just telling the truth? what kind of motivation do you speak of?

Batum has been interviewed numerous times about who is the best offensive player in the league and who is the toughest to guard. Why? because he is known for his superior defense and because of that, he is given the assignment to guard the best shooter/offensive player on each team the blazers face. Other players have stated Batum is a superior defender and he has commented on guarding Wade, Lebron, Kobe ect...

In fact, I would think players that guard stars like that almost every night would have a much better idea of the player they guarded and their abilities than you or I or even the Media for that matter.

bodupp311
02-08-2011, 02:16 PM
What's not level headed about posting FACTS to dispute OPINIONS?

The facts prove Deng didn't score all of that on Batum. Batum is not an elite defender, and I'm not trusting his word over anybody, because he's telling us something we already know.

Rose is not a good defender, regardless of his improvements.

Not disputing anything. Merely that you ignored other intelligent posts & go straight for that one. Like you got excited that you got a chance to prove someone wrong. C'mon man, dont do that. Let it go.

Again, I dont know what criteria you use to tell if someone is or isnt a good defender. But i disagree.

FWIW... recently Thibs has been strategically putting Rose on the opposition's best wing player to shut them down. You may laugh at that but Thibs sees something special in Derrick if thats the case.


I'll try to find the article.

jiggin
02-08-2011, 02:17 PM
Batum forgot deng scored 40 on him. Deng of all people.

wow...you don't remember very well.

Batum guarded Rose in that game, as he does most of the time...and rose only scored 16 points. So....

bulls fans are really reaching in this thread...and showing they don't know much about players outside of Chitown.

bodupp311
02-08-2011, 02:19 PM
u have no idea what youre talking about

just look at my sig and soak it all in ..

I know you're in here to bait & troll. So I must know something.

ManOnFire
02-08-2011, 02:20 PM
http://www.nastyhobbit.org/data/media/13/in-before-lock.gif
IN.

bodupp311
02-08-2011, 02:22 PM
wow...you don't remember very well.

Batum guarded Rose in that game, as he does most of the time...and rose only scored 16 points. So....

bulls fans are really reaching in this thread...and showing they don't know much about players outside of Chitown.

Not to defend the ignorance, but this IS a thread about a Chicago player. So, technically, we dont need information of players outside Chicago for this specific thread.

beasted86
02-08-2011, 02:22 PM
Not disputing anything. Merely that you ignored other intelligent posts & go straight for that one. Like you got excited that you got a chance to prove someone wrong. C'mon man, dont do that. Let it go.

Again, I dont know what criteria you use to tell if someone is or isnt a good defender. But i disagree.

FWIW... recently Thibs has been strategically putting Rose on the opposition's best wing player to shut them down. You may laugh at that but Thibs sees something special in Derrick if thats the case.


I'll try to find the article.

I didn't ignore them, they just aren't on topic.

I'm not going to dive into "what if" scenarios on what Michael Beasley's defense would look like under a 3rd year under a good defensive coach, or what Rose's advanced defensive stats might look, if, maybe, he somehow, possibly improved more.

Going back to the topic at hand, Rose has improved. I don't think anyone here is saying otherwise... but even with the improvements he's not a very good defender at all. So I agree and say Batum is spot on in what he is saying about Rose "now".

hugepatsfan
02-08-2011, 02:27 PM
Here's what people need to understand. Bulls fans are by no means saying Rose is a great defender. However, he is without a doubt an IMPROVED defender this year. If he is able to make the same strides next year as he has this year, it would be incredible. That would put him at a 97 DRTG next season. He is on pace for 4.8 DWS this year, up from 2.5 last year. Another year at that improvement would put him at 7.1 DWS.

For a reference point, Chris Paul has never posted a DRTG below 100 and has never had more than 5.0 DWS.

I'm sorry but this ridiculous. You don't just keep going up every year. You realize that a 7.1 DWS would be better than Pippen or MJ ever put up.

Rose is definately improved on defense, but he still has a ways to go. I guarantee you he will not going to go up 2.5 in one season again (and he may not even do it this year).

minervamob
02-08-2011, 02:27 PM
**** batum

BucktownUSA
02-08-2011, 02:28 PM
whos batum again?

beasted86
02-08-2011, 02:28 PM
**** batum

:clap:

This is the traditional response I've been waiting for.

faze38
02-08-2011, 02:29 PM
I think u Bulls fans are showing way to much Homerism! Yes he is improved but he is still getting cooked on the Defensive end.

Game 1

Felton: 20 and 10
TD: 30 and 4

Combined: 50 and 14

D.Rose: 24 and 14
Watson: 4 and 3

Combined: 28 and 17
*Note he was benched because of his D in this game!

Game 2

Felton: 20 and 12
TD: 8 and 3

Combined: 28 and 15

D.Rose: 25 and 8
Watson: 5 and 1

Combined 30 and 9

Better the second time around but still lead to a L!
That is in no way shape or form exceptable when u have the advantage in size and speed against your match up!

chicago lulz
02-08-2011, 02:30 PM
Batum Drtg: 109 DWS: 1.3
Rose Drtg: 103 DWS: 2.9

:shrug:

bodupp311
02-08-2011, 02:32 PM
I didn't ignore them, they just aren't on topic.

I'm not going to dive into "what if" scenarios on what Michael Beasley's defense would look like under a 3rd year under a good defensive coach, or what Rose's advanced defensive stats might look, if, maybe, he somehow, possibly improved more.

Going back to the topic at hand, Rose has improved. I don't think anyone here is saying otherwise... but even with the improvements he's not a very good defender at all. So I agree and say Batum is spot on in what he is saying about Rose "now".

Okay, I can respect that. The only thing that bothers me is that Batum is implying thats he's a horrible defender with no chance of improving. That is my take on it, wheither it may or may not be right.

I have seen Derrick make enormous strides defensively this year, so using things he's said he's done make me believe(as examples I've already used) he will continue to get better every single day.

Derrick still gets torched from time to time & does struggle fighting through the PnR, but has imporved contesting shots & getting steals off the ball. Which, in prior years, he has struggled getting beat back door by watching the ball too much.

When I think of poor defenders I think about players who put in no effort whatsoever.

Derrick does not fall in that category.

beasted86
02-08-2011, 02:37 PM
BTW, the full quote:


“We knew Derrick Rose was a good offensive player,” Batum said. “But you have to play defense, too. He can’t guard Dre. You gotta play defense. He can’t play defense.”
http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/feb/07/aldridge-lights-up-another-foe/

bodupp311
02-08-2011, 02:38 PM
BTW, the full quote:


http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/feb/07/aldridge-lights-up-another-foe/

Yeah, that didnt help. :laugh2:

jiggin
02-08-2011, 02:40 PM
Okay, I can respect that. The only thing that bothers me is that Batum is implying thats he's a horrible defender with no chance of improving. That is my take on it, wheither it may or may not be right.

I have seen Derrick make enormous strides defensively this year, so using things he's said he's done make me believe(as examples I've already used) he will continue to get better every single day.

Derrick still gets torched from time to time & does struggle fighting through the PnR, but has imporved contesting shots & getting steals off the ball. Which, in prior years, he has struggled getting beat back door by watching the ball too much.

When I think of poor defenders I think about players who put in no effort whatsoever.

Derrick does not fall in that category.

when did batum "imply" he was a horrible defender with no chance of improving?

read Batums quote:


"We know that Derrick Rose is a good offensive player. But you have to play defense, too. He can't guard Dre. You gotta play defense. He can't play defense... so that's why we put Dre inside and try to attack him."

hmmm...Andre had a double double: 27 points and 11 assists

it would seem that attacking rose and his defense was a major part of the trailblazers game plan going in...so, why is Batum the "bad guy" for stating the way the team approached Rose and the Bulls?

and Chicago fans, he also said this, which obviously isn't being discussed cause its a good quote for you in CHI:


"I'm impressed by his jump shot. His first two years, if you guard D. Rose you just stand back and let him shoot it. Now he proves it a lot with his jump shots, makes it so difficult to guard him. Because now if you step back he makes everything, and going to the rim, he's too fast."

THE_G.O.A.T.
02-08-2011, 02:40 PM
Why is this a thread? Slow news day?

jiggin
02-08-2011, 02:41 PM
BTW, the full quote:


http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/feb/07/aldridge-lights-up-another-foe/

that was NOT the full quote, but nice try. I posted it above. He even talks about how hard Rose is to guard on offense and how he has improved in that respect over the last couple years.

Hawkeye15
02-08-2011, 02:42 PM
Is Rose a bad defender? No. Is he a good defender? No. But he is good enough, and with the Bulls surrounding him with defenders all year, his Drtg will look good, but that is more of a team rating.

http://www.82games.com/1011/10CHI3.HTM

He hold his counterpart to barely below the league average in PER.

His Synergy numbers are the following (in Points Per Possession given to opponent):
Overall- 0.76 PPP (#28 in the NBA)
Isolation- 0.67 PPP (#39 in the NBA)
PnR Ballhandler- 0.74 PPP (#41 in the NBA)
Post up- 0.57 PPP (#7 in the NBA, but on a very small sample size of 30 times he has defended the post all year)
PnR Roll man- 0.4 PPP (# n/a in the NBA, again only 5 times has he been put in this position, too small to care about)
Spot up- 0.93 PPP (#110 in the NBA)
Off screen- 0.58 PPP (# n/a, too small of a sample size again)
Hand off- 1.13 PPP (#35 in the NBA)

He holds his opponents to 37.4% FG.

Statistically, Rose is a good defender. But when you watch, you can tell he is benefiting from a great defensive coach's scheme, and multiple players that really play great team defense (as do the members of the Celtics, Heat, Hornets, Magic, and all great defensive teams). Rose isn't a bad defender at all, he is above average playing on the best defensive team in the NBA arguably. And when you add in his improvement on that end from last year to this year, we should expect him to become a capable defender soon enough. His defensive rebound rates are at an all time high, and he is holding his opponent to less production than in the past. He is not a bad defender.

ElMarroAfamado
02-08-2011, 02:42 PM
andre miller is on his team batum shouldnt be talking

beasted86
02-08-2011, 02:44 PM
that was NOT the full quote, but nice try. I posted it above. He even talks about how hard Rose is to guard on offense and how he has improved in that respect over the last couple years.

No "try" at all.

I was posting the full quote regarding what he said about Rose's defense.

Cool007
02-08-2011, 02:44 PM
Why is this a thread? Slow news day?

It's because some scrub with a short term memory said something bad about Rose so let's bash. This is our chance.

Totally ignoring my posts. Where was Batum and his smack talk about defense when Rose does held Miller to single digit scoring and assist???

Oh yeah, no where to be found.

Carry on.

jiggin
02-08-2011, 02:45 PM
andre miller is on his team batum shouldnt be talking

because of Rose's defense and the Blazers knowing that and taking advantage of it, Andre had a Double Double with 27 points. Guess who Rose was guarding?

Andre +10 as well...Rose -11 on the game.

DOH

bodupp311
02-08-2011, 02:48 PM
when did batum "imply" he was a horrible defender with no chance of improving?

read Batums quote:



hmmm...Andre had a double double: 27 points and 11 assists

it would seem that attacking rose and his defense was a major part of the trailblazers game plan going in...so, why is Batum the "bad guy" for stating the way the team approached Rose and the Bulls?

and Chicago fans, he also said this, which obviously isn't being discussed cause its a good quote for you in CHI:

Um, the part where he said he cant play defense or guard "Dre".

Seemed like they attacked whomever guarded Aldridge seeing as he had a career high.

Derrick Rose didnt guard Aldridge just so you know.

jiggin
02-08-2011, 02:49 PM
It's because some scrub with a short term memory said something bad about Rose so let's bash. This is our chance.

Totally ignoring my posts. Where was Batum and his smack talk about defense when Rose does held Miller to single digit scoring and assist???

Oh yeah, no where to be found.

Carry on.

Rose held Miller? and that is a feat? I thought Miller was an old over the hill PG?

Last night Rose was assigned Miller, and because the blazers took advantage of Rose's defense skills, Miller had a double double and scored 27.

Come on...you are going as far as to try and compare Rose to Andre Miller in order to do, what, raise Rose's defensive value by comparison?

Wow...come on Bulls fans. be bigger than this.

Pierzynski4Prez
02-08-2011, 02:50 PM
Why is this a thread? Slow news day?

Very slow. I really can't believe how many times some of the non-chicago people post in this thread, like they really care that much about what Batum said about Rose. I would shoot myself if I found myself posting all day in a thread about a player's D that is on a team that I don't even root for.

Chronz
02-08-2011, 02:51 PM
Yet people insist on taking a players word for gospel because they "Play these guys".

bodupp311
02-08-2011, 02:51 PM
because of Rose's defense and the Blazers knowing that and taking advantage of it, Andre had a Double Double with 27 points. Guess who Rose was guarding?

Andre +10 as well...Rose -11 on the game.

DOH

Did Derrick Rose guard Andre Miller the entire game? Yeah, uh... no.

And +/- is a joke. Keith Bogans has a postive rating every game for Gods sake. Why? Because he plays with the starters only.

D1JM
02-08-2011, 02:53 PM
Is Rose a bad defender? No. Is he a good defender? No. But he is good enough, and with the Bulls surrounding him with defenders all year, his Drtg will look good, but that is more of a team rating.

http://www.82games.com/1011/10CHI3.HTM

He hold his counterpart to barely below the league average in PER.

His Synergy numbers are the following (in Points Per Possession given to opponent):
Overall- 0.76 PPP (#28 in the NBA)
Isolation- 0.67 PPP (#39 in the NBA)
PnR Ballhandler- 0.74 PPP (#41 in the NBA)
Post up- 0.57 PPP (#7 in the NBA, but on a very small sample size of 30 times he has defended the post all year)
PnR Roll man- 0.4 PPP (# n/a in the NBA, again only 5 times has he been put in this position, too small to care about)
Spot up- 0.93 PPP (#110 in the NBA)
Off screen- 0.58 PPP (# n/a, too small of a sample size again)
Hand off- 1.13 PPP (#35 in the NBA)

He holds his opponents to 37.4% FG.

Statistically, Rose is a good defender. But when you watch, you can tell he is benefiting from a great defensive coach's scheme, and multiple players that really play great team defense (as do the members of the Celtics, Heat, Hornets, Magic, and all great defensive teams). Rose isn't a bad defender at all, he is above average playing on the best defensive team in the NBA arguably. And when you add in his improvement on that end from last year to this year, we should expect him to become a capable defender soon enough. His defensive rebound rates are at an all time high, and he is holding his opponent to less production than in the past. He is not a bad defender.

Thank you hawkeye.

bodupp311
02-08-2011, 02:54 PM
Very slow. I really can't believe how many times some of the non-chicago people post in this thread, like they really care that much about what Batum said about Rose. I would shoot myself if I found myself posting all day in a thread about a player's D that is on a team that I don't even root for.

Amen. The point I've been trying to make with no such luck. But they do care... ALOT.

jiggin
02-08-2011, 02:54 PM
Um, the part where he said he cant play defense or guard "Dre".

Seemed like they attacked whomever guarded Aldridge seeing as he had a career high.

Derrick Rose didnt guard Aldridge just so you know.

HAHA...its a team sport my friend. If dre drifves past rose cause he can't keep up on the shuffle, then dumps to aldridge who scores...that is still D. Rose's fault.

Do some of you barely watch basketball and then come in here and comment?

This thread is getting ridiculous. Bulls fans, stop trying to attack a player who used factual info (it was part of the blazers game plan to attack Rose on defense because they know its a weakness) to make a comment about a player.

He ALSO said he is amazing on offense...you want to argue about that too?

The worst part of you arguing is that the stats from the game ect...totally back up what he said. The guy he was guarding had a double double and it was a major part of their game plan going into the game against Chicago...AND IT WORKED!

shame on NBA players for being honest and telling info in the post game about how they had a plan and they executed it.

jiggin
02-08-2011, 02:55 PM
Did Derrick Rose guard Andre Miller the entire game? Yeah, uh... no.

And +/- is a joke. Keith Bogans has a postive rating every game for Gods sake. Why? Because he plays with the starters only.

I was at the game...Rose guarded miller almost the entire game. Except for when either was on the bench of course...

Hawkeye15
02-08-2011, 02:57 PM
I also find it interesting that some of you bring up isolated games to prove a point. Great defensive teams use a team scheme. Guys don't stay at home on their players unless they are in certain areas, or the ball is on their side of the floor. So saying a player gave up 24/9 to another player is inaccurate. The TEAM did. A great defensive team uses controlled roaming by their PG's many times (cough, Rondo!), so a few times a game, he gets burned.

Illinirob83
02-08-2011, 02:59 PM
I typed the above without reading through the thread.

I now understand that Bulls fans will stop at no level to completely defend a fan favorite even if they are incorrect or make up information that supports their opinion.

Bulls fans = Cubs fans in this regard.

lol, what are you talking about? To a man, Bulls fans have said that Rose has a long way to go defensively, but has VASTLY improved since even last year. Rose is not going to make an all-defensive team this year, but to say he "can't play D" is flat out wrong. Sorry you have to pander to everyone else instead of knowing what the hell you are watching. His first year+ he was a complete defensive liability, but that isn't the case anymore. He has put a ton of work in on that side of the floor and has improved greatly this season, sorry if you take the haters words as gospel instead of figuring out that by actually watching the season. He was bad last night defensively, but that doesn't mean he "can't play defense" as a whole. Ridiculous.

D1JM
02-08-2011, 02:59 PM
I was at the game...Rose guarded miller almost the entire game. Except for when either was on the bench of course...

Why didn't miller guard rose? Was he too scared of rose breaking his ankles?

Cool007
02-08-2011, 03:01 PM
Rose held Miller? and that is a feat? I thought Miller was an old over the hill PG?

Last night Rose was assigned Miller, and because the blazers took advantage of Rose's defense skills, Miller had a double double and scored 27.

Come on...you are going as far as to try and compare Rose to Andre Miller in order to do, what, raise Rose's defensive value by comparison?

Wow...come on Bulls fans. be bigger than this.

Same goes for you.

I did the breakdown which you ignored it.

Miller had 14 points on Rose. 6 points on CJ Watson, 1 technical free throw and 6 on the free throw (intentional fouling).

So scoring 14-points on someone is making that player a BAD DEFENDER???

Really???

You come on now.

bodupp311
02-08-2011, 03:01 PM
HAHA...its a team sport my friend. If dre drifves past rose cause he can't keep up on the shuffle, then dumps to aldridge who scores...that is still D. Rose's fault.

Do some of you barely watch basketball and then come in here and comment?

This thread is getting ridiculous. Bulls fans, stop trying to attack a player who used factual info (it was part of the blazers game plan to attack Rose on defense because they know its a weakness) to make a comment about a player.

He ALSO said he is amazing on offense...you want to argue about that too?

The worst part of you arguing is that the stats from the game ect...totally back up what he said. The guy he was guarding had a double double and it was a major part of their game plan going into the game against Chicago...AND IT WORKED!

shame on NBA players for being honest and telling info in the post game about how they had a plan and they executed it.

IF he was being honest he wouldve said our gameplan was to attack Derrick & leave it at that, but he didnt. I said he didnt have a good game defensively, I admitted so earlier. Learn to read, not get in a hurry to bash. And if fact contradicts stats then is it really fact or just an opinion?

Maybe, just maybe, he had a bad game. God forbid.

jiggin
02-08-2011, 03:01 PM
I also find it interesting that some of you bring up isolated games to prove a point. Great defensive teams use a team scheme. Guys don't stay at home on their players unless they are in certain areas, or the ball is on their side of the floor. So saying a player gave up 24/9 to another player is inaccurate. The TEAM did. A great defensive team uses controlled roaming by their PG's many times (cough, Rondo!), so a few times a game, he gets burned.

switch offs on pick plays or a switch to a rare zone are really the only things that prevent a team from at least starting with a one on one defensive scheme.

you are very right in that double teams, shifts ect... happen on the fly, but there is a reason that Rose doesn't guard the best player on the opposing team which is the same reason why Brandon Roy doesn't defend the best players the Blazers play...because they aren't the best defensive option AND it allows the STAR of the offense to rest more on defense.


From last nights game, Batum guarded a little of everything BECAUSE they were missing a key bench player that can help on defense in other positions...here is the quote:


"Tonight I guarded everybody," Batum told me. "D Rose, Deng, Korver, Thomas, Boozer, I guarded everybody. [Without Cunningham] I knew I was going to play a lot inside. A guy like Thomas, sometimes Boozer, Gibson, you've got to play smart. I'm pretty quick, I'm faster than them, so I've got to stay in front of them, deny them the ball, I think I did a pretty good job tonight because they're strong inside, trust me."

D1JM
02-08-2011, 03:02 PM
I also find it interesting that some of you bring up isolated games to prove a point. Great defensive teams use a team scheme. Guys don't stay at home on their players unless they are in certain areas, or the ball is on their side of the floor. So saying a player gave up 24/9 to another player is inaccurate. The TEAM did. A great defensive team uses controlled roaming by their PG's many times (cough, Rondo!), so a few times a game, he gets burned.

It doesn't matter hawkeye. People will use what they want to use to back up their theory. That's how it works here in the NBA forum.

D1JM
02-08-2011, 03:04 PM
switch offs on pick plays or a switch to a rare zone are really the only things that prevent a team from at least starting with a one on one defensive scheme.

you are very right in that double teams, shifts ect... happen on the fly, but there is a reason that Rose doesn't guard the best player on the opposing team which is the same reason why Brandon Roy doesn't defend the best players the Blazers play...because they aren't the best defensive option AND it allows the STAR of the offense to rest more on defense.


From last nights game, Batum guarded a little of everything BECAUSE they were missing a key bench player that can help on defense in other positions...here is the quote:


So u want a pg guarding the other teams best offensive player? Hahahahha batum is faster than rose. :laugh: I wonder y rose still dropped 36 on them if they have the best defender on the nba

Illinirob83
02-08-2011, 03:04 PM
well this was known esp after ellis and curry torched him and then miller torched him last night

You obviously didn't watch the game the other night against GS. And I thnk andre Miller scored like 6 or 7 pts in the first meeting against the bulls this year. Again, Rose isn't a great defender in the least, but he is far from being a bad defender. Guys have bad nights defensively all around the league, Rose had one last night Maybe though that was because he had to use so much damn energy on the offensive end last night because his teammates didn't help in out in the least. It is easy maybe for Batum to be a "great defender" because he rests constantly on offense. But I guess no one thinks of that either.

jiggin
02-08-2011, 03:06 PM
Same goes for you.

I did the breakdown which you ignored it.

Miller had 14 points on Rose. 6 points on CJ Watson, 1 technical free throw and 6 on the free throw (intentional fouling).

So scoring 14-points on someone is making that player a BAD DEFENDER???

Really???

You come on now.

and the assists? Can't believe you are slicing up Andre Millers stats for the night to try and basically say it wasn't Rose and it was a good defensive effort.

Andre still had a double double on Rose even if you remove his free-throws ect... *(which no one EVER does...throw away actual stats in a game to support an opinion)*

if we want to start throwing out stats...I should look up how many of D roses points are from the foul line. I think ALL analysts including the NBA needs to toss out all free-throw points since those mean less apparently.

:( WOW...this thread is an eye opener into the brains of Chicago fans...and its scary.

bodupp311
02-08-2011, 03:07 PM
switch offs on pick plays or a switch to a rare zone are really the only things that prevent a team from at least starting with a one on one defensive scheme.

you are very right in that double teams, shifts ect... happen on the fly, but there is a reason that Rose doesn't guard the best player on the opposing team which is the same reason why Brandon Roy doesn't defend the best players the Blazers play...because they aren't the best defensive option AND it allows the STAR of the offense to rest more on defense.


From last nights game, Batum guarded a little of everything BECAUSE they were missing a key bench player that can help on defense in other positions...here is the quote:

W.R.O.N.G

Derrick has been defending the opposing teams best wing player recently(I'm soo not in the mood to look for the article). Arent you the one saying Chicago fans dont know anything about any players outside Chicago? Ironic.

jiggin
02-08-2011, 03:09 PM
lol, what are you talking about? To a man, Bulls fans have said that Rose has a long way to go defensively, but has VASTLY improved since even last year. Rose is not going to make an all-defensive team this year, but to say he "can't play D" is flat out wrong. Sorry you have to pander to everyone else instead of knowing what the hell you are watching. His first year+ he was a complete defensive liability, but that isn't the case anymore. He has put a ton of work in on that side of the floor and has improved greatly this season, sorry if you take the haters words as gospel instead of figuring out that by actually watching the season. He was bad last night defensively, but that doesn't mean he "can't play defense" as a whole. Ridiculous.

wow...I guess in a post game interview after playing 30+ minutes of hard basketball a player needs to be more politically correct in his statement so he doesn't get Chicago Bulls fans panties all in a bunch.

N. Batum stated this was part of their game plan, and it worked. He stated he can't play D...probably didn't mean he LITERALLY JUST STANDS THERE AND PLAYS NO DEFENSE...but meant his lack of top defense lead them to a game plan of attacking him and either scoring on him or dumping it to someone like LA (he had 42 and Andre, who rose was guarding most of the game, had 11 assists).

Its all good...one thing has been discovered by me in this thread; Bulls fans are very passionate about their favorites...even to the point of taking comments almost personally.

To each their own...

bodupp311
02-08-2011, 03:09 PM
and the assists? Can't believe you are slicing up Andre Millers stats for the night to try and basically say it wasn't Rose and it was a good defensive effort.

Andre still had a double double on Rose even if you remove his free-throws ect... *(which no one EVER does...throw away actual stats in a game to support an opinion)*

if we want to start throwing out stats...I should look up how many of D roses points are from the foul line. I think ALL analysts including the NBA needs to toss out all free-throw points since those mean less apparently.

:( WOW...this thread is an eye opener into the brains of Chicago fans...and its scary.

Laughing my mother ****ing *** off! Have at it, pal. You're about to have an eye opener.

Cool007
02-08-2011, 03:10 PM
I also find it interesting that some of you bring up isolated games to prove a point. Great defensive teams use a team scheme. Guys don't stay at home on their players unless they are in certain areas, or the ball is on their side of the floor. So saying a player gave up 24/9 to another player is inaccurate. The TEAM did. A great defensive team uses controlled roaming by their PG's many times (cough, Rondo!), so a few times a game, he gets burned.

Thank you. Finally someone that has any sense.

It's like saying since Bulls are #1 in defense this year, but giving up 109 to Blazers - does that make them "Bulls can't play defense"??? like "Rose can't play defense"

coz of bad 1 night???

A Nut Da 1
02-08-2011, 03:10 PM
:rolleyes:

Batum is actually a good defender...Call me crazy but I think he might know a lil bit more about how good a defender Rose is than you hahaha

I agree with you and i hate to admit it but Fast don't lie doesn't play defense that well

Draco
02-08-2011, 03:11 PM
Very slow. I really can't believe how many times some of the non-chicago people post in this thread, like they really care that much about what Batum alledgedly said about Rose. I would shoot myself if I found myself posting all day in a thread about a player's D that is on a team that I don't even root for.

That's your average heat and celtic fan. Edited your post a bit, makes the whole deal a little more pathetic.

ChiDougie19
02-08-2011, 03:12 PM
yea this really matters...rodman never had someone put 30 on him....d howard has always kept ppl under 12 points thru his whole career...ppl score on the best and they score on the worst ppl have they games....derrick is a decent defender...wanna talk bout bad defense on bulls look at korver or booz they always suck

ChiDougie19
02-08-2011, 03:12 PM
sarcasim 4 the slow folks^^^

Cool007
02-08-2011, 03:15 PM
and the assists? Can't believe you are slicing up Andre Millers stats for the night to try and basically say it wasn't Rose and it was a good defensive effort.

Andre still had a double double on Rose even if you remove his free-throws ect... *(which no one EVER does...throw away actual stats in a game to support an opinion)*

if we want to start throwing out stats...I should look up how many of D roses points are from the foul line. I think ALL analysts including the NBA needs to toss out all free-throw points since those mean less apparently.

:( WOW...this thread is an eye opener into the brains of Chicago fans...and its scary.

Wow!! people just like to put words in someone's mouth. When did I say it was a good defensive effort by Rose? I just broke it down to show that it was not Rose playing bad defense but it was the entire team. Miller just didn't score on Rose but he did against the WHOLE TEAM.

Don't give me assists. When you have a player score 40-pt next to you and you are the primary ball handler, yes 11-assist is not that hard to achieve. that has nothing to do with Rose's defense either. It was just Aldridge had a CAREER game.

unless you guys have some agenda on Rose or something.

jiggin
02-08-2011, 03:16 PM
W.R.O.N.G

Derrick has been defending the opposing teams best wing player recently(I'm soo not in the mood to look for the article). Arent you the one saying Chicago fans dont know anything about any players outside Chicago? Ironic.

recently...as in, how recent...he has only been in the league a couple years...

I don't see any major info backup Rose guarding Lebron or Kobe or any of the top all-stars when they face the bulls, can you provide me that info so that I can be better educated?

Thanks.

A Nut Da 1
02-08-2011, 03:17 PM
yea this really matters...rodman never had someone put 30 on him....d howard has always kept ppl under 12 points thru his whole career...ppl score on the best and they score on the worst ppl have they games....derrick is a decent defender...wanna talk bout bad defense on bulls look at korver or booz they always suck

yea i agree with that too Booz is the reason we lost that game because he can't close out on a PF he just stood under the basket and let LA hit jumper after jumper at some point you have to start thinking maybe i should play some defense on him make him put the ball on the floor or something

MJ-BULLS
02-08-2011, 03:17 PM
this is a stupid thread.

batum is just talking **** because he got scorched last time he played the Bulls. deng scored 40 points on him, he was a non-factor in the game.

now that they won the game last night he comes out talking. :rolleyes:

Illinirob83
02-08-2011, 03:18 PM
BTW, the full quote:


http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/feb/07/aldridge-lights-up-another-foe/

So we can now say that Batum, who is a fine defensive player, really doesn't know crap else about what is going on on the floor. 'Dre put up 7 pts up against Rose the first meeting. 'Dre put up 14 pts against Rose last night while Rose was having to bust his *** on every offensive possession to keep the Bulls in that game because his teammates sucked. Saying Rose "can't play D" is nothing short of ignorance and past reputation.

ChiDougie19
02-08-2011, 03:20 PM
this is a stupid thread.

batum is just talking **** because he got scorched last time he played the Bulls. deng scored 40 points on him, he was a non-factor in the game.

now that they won the game last night he comes out talking. :rolleyes:



good point so goin off this thread this means that every person who said batum is a good defender is wrong cuz he let deng get 40 on him...im just sayin

Azzacadabra
02-08-2011, 03:22 PM
Weird, when I first read the thread title I thought it said 'Batman on Derrick Rose'. I must be out of it.

Illinirob83
02-08-2011, 03:22 PM
wow...I guess in a post game interview after playing 30+ minutes of hard basketball a player needs to be more politically correct in his statement so he doesn't get Chicago Bulls fans panties all in a bunch.

N. Batum stated this was part of their game plan, and it worked. He stated he can't play D...probably didn't mean he LITERALLY JUST STANDS THERE AND PLAYS NO DEFENSE...but meant his lack of top defense lead them to a game plan of attacking him and either scoring on him or dumping it to someone like LA (he had 42 and Andre, who rose was guarding most of the game, had 11 assists).

Its all good...one thing has been discovered by me in this thread; Bulls fans are very passionate about their favorites...even to the point of taking comments almost personally.

To each their own...

When I hear, just like everyone else apparently, that "Rose can't play D, he is good on O, but can't play D." That is flat out insulting to that player, and flat out ignorant based on what has transpired this season. I see it as.."can't play D', means that Rose is a defensive liability and sucks on that end......apparently Batum is talking out of his *** based on 'Dre's great game tonight. Saying he can't guard 'Dre is nothing short of ignorant. Rose wasn't particular good on defense last night, the Bulls were bad as well as a whole. It was a bad night, to make conclusions about that is stupid. It is like saying the Bulls are a bad defensive team based on they have allowed 209 pts the last two games combined. That would be just as ignorant.

Illinirob83
02-08-2011, 03:24 PM
What's funny to me is, people are using advance stats to prove the point then people say "that doesn't tell the story you have to watch the games." Then we tell you we have been watching the games and have been seeing that vast improvement of Rose and the entire team under Thibs defensively then we are just being "homers", and Nick Batum's words are gospel based off of that bad team defensive performance. So which is it?

jiggin
02-08-2011, 03:25 PM
Laughing my mother ****ing *** off! Have at it, pal. You're about to have an eye opener.

you must remove 704 points from Rose in his 3 year career if you want to throw out FT made.

that means you need to remove about 17% of his scoring...

RZZZA
02-08-2011, 03:33 PM
is this what's gonna happen every time the Bulls lose a few games? 20 page threads?

Hawkeye15
02-08-2011, 03:38 PM
switch offs on pick plays or a switch to a rare zone are really the only things that prevent a team from at least starting with a one on one defensive scheme.

you are very right in that double teams, shifts ect... happen on the fly, but there is a reason that Rose doesn't guard the best player on the opposing team which is the same reason why Brandon Roy doesn't defend the best players the Blazers play...because they aren't the best defensive option AND it allows the STAR of the offense to rest more on defense.


From last nights game, Batum guarded a little of everything BECAUSE they were missing a key bench player that can help on defense in other positions...here is the quote:

Who is arguing Rose is a better defender than Batum? That would be a stupid argument.
I am simply saying Rose is NOT a bad defender.

As for him not guarding the other team's best player, um, the Bulls have very, very good perimeter defenders who can burn their energy chasing around the other teams best perimeter player. Rose can save his energy for offense. Pippen guarded the other team's best player most nights, even though we all knew Jordan was a terrific defender.

I think we agree here, just clarifying my post.

D1JM
02-08-2011, 03:41 PM
nicolas88batum: I'm sorry for D.Rose and bulls fans. I never said that he can't play defense, NEVER...trust me

straight from batum. i guess he never said nothing

Minimal
02-08-2011, 03:44 PM
LMAO 17 pages of bashing cause of words Batum never said.

jiggin
02-08-2011, 03:44 PM
yeah...see, BATUM IS HORRIBLE...

LOL @ Bulls fans. ITS SO PERSONAL!!!