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LongWayFromHome
02-07-2011, 02:14 AM
Every time I read about Elton Brand I realize that I continuously forget how good his career numbers are. Dude has only had One playoff appearance of 12 games but put up good numbers (25pts 10reb 2.6blk and 4 ast).

But HOF good?
His career numbers for 12 seasons are 19pts and just <10reb with awesome FG% and 2 blk.

idk When you compare him to two guys who had the good fortune of winning teams - Worthy and McHale - his numbers and accomplishments look pretty good outside of the playoffs and McHale's regular spot on the All-Def team (but Brand would probably have a few of those if ever on good teams).

I say no but it's an interesting discussion.

Any way here's my Keltner List for him

1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in basketball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in basketball? No. But had a few seasons whith top 3 PF numbers

2. Was he the best player on his team? w/o much doubt his first 9 seasons (b4 PHI) but this year leads PHI in Pts Reb Blk and FG%

3. Was he the best player in basketball at his position? No. But top 5 for a while.

4. Did he have an impact on a number of NBA Finals or Conference Finals? Only one season ever in the playoffs. Played 12 games and put up 25pts 10reb 4ast 2.6blk and a solid .227 ws/48

5. Was he good enough that he could play regularly after passing his prime? He is right now. Is possibly the most productive player on a very bad team a good 3 seasons past his prime.

6. Is he the very best (eligible) basketball player in history who is not in the Hall of Fame? DNQ

7. Are most players who have comparable statistics in the Hall of Fame? I found this answer in Zo's Kelnter List "For his career, Mourning averaged 17.1 points, 8.5 rebounds, and 2.8 blocks per game. Excluding active players, eight other NBA players have averaged at least 15 points, 7.5 rebounds, and 2 blocks per game for their career: five of them are in the Hall of Fame (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Patrick Ewing, Elvin Hayes, Hakeem Olajuwon, and Nate Thurmond), one will be (David Robinson), and two are not (Artis Gilmore and Larry Nance). That speaks well of Mourning, although it should be noted that he played by far the fewest minutes in this group." Brand is right now 19pts 9.6reb and 1.9blk (safe to say these numbers will go down to say - 17pts 8.5reb and 1.5blk)

8. Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards? Yikes. Brand has a HOF prob of .135. But this number is higher than 5 current HOFers (Most notably Bill Walton). Also higher than Mark Price, Chris Mullin and Reggie Miller whom many people think are HOFers and none of which have rings either.

9. Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics? There is SOME possibility that he is worse than numbers would indicate because he played for bad teams a lot. But in his one season that his team made the playoffs he had his BEST season and went for 25 and 10 and 2.5 blks. He is also an underrated defender in ways that saber metrics don't really detect IMO.

10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame? DNQ

11. How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close? He had one season where he could REALLY be considered and that was 05-06 when he came 7th but all the guys above him also had great seasons for better teams. But if Brand isn't on that LAC team they are not a playoff team. In 01-02 he was 16th.

12. How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the players who played in this many All-Star games go into the Hall of Fame? He only made 2 All-Star teams but had 8 consecutive 20/10 seasons (give or take a little here or there) to start his career sooooooooo. Basically if he was in the East all that time he would have made more like 5. And idk about comparable players as far as number of appearances.

13. If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win an NBA title? Likely? no. But possible if his team were really really solid with a lot of players close to him in talent. He would have probably been the best player on the Pistons 2004 championship team.

14. What impact did the player have on basketball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way? Was his college and/or international career especially noteworthy? Average 40 and 20 in high school. Won the Naismith as a Soph @ Duke. Mr Basketball in NY as a senior. And is a somewhat unknown player because of his humility and intelligence.

The Verdict: A LOT of excuses in this list. Just based on this list I say he doesn't go. But if he had found a winning team consistantly in the playoffs but never winning a championship he is a pretty clear choice I'd say.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 02:17 AM
great question. Off the top of any general fan's head, no, he is not. But when you look at his numbers, and the rosters he has had around him, he has been a very good player when healthy.

whitemamba33
02-07-2011, 02:17 AM
I think him and Antoine Walker should be put in the HOF together.

My prediction is that they will just tear down the HOF the following year.

LongWayFromHome
02-07-2011, 02:20 AM
I think him and Antoine Walker should be put in the HOF together.

My prediction is that they will just tear down the HOF the following year.

rofl. I hate Antoine Walker... get what you're saying but he is def better/more valuable than Walker.

sargon21
02-07-2011, 02:20 AM
Not a chance IMO

kingbrentg
02-07-2011, 02:23 AM
rofl. I hate Antoine Walker... get what you're saying but he is def better/more valuable than Walker.

Yeah, easily. Walker was near turd level.

Avenged
02-07-2011, 02:24 AM
Not a chance IMO

Same here.

beasted86
02-07-2011, 02:28 AM
Mitch Richmond.

No.

abe_froman
02-07-2011, 02:28 AM
umm no.the hof,and well judgment of a player in general are about more then just numbers,its how meaningful those numbers were...and brand had only one(maybe 2) meaningful season(s) in his career

Ty Fast
02-07-2011, 02:29 AM
no

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 02:29 AM
I think him and Antoine Walker should be put in the HOF together.

My prediction is that they will just tear down the HOF the following year.

hahahahaha, now that is funny

Hellcrooner
02-07-2011, 02:29 AM
People in psd do debate if people like Ray Allen, Pierce, Gasol, Kidd, Iverson and etc deserve to go into the hof.


Elton Brand Seriously?

With his mighty 1 or 2 years in the playoffs in his whole career?

Sadds The Gr8
02-07-2011, 02:30 AM
no way. but i really like the way u broke it down with the questions though. good post

Sandman
02-07-2011, 02:33 AM
the guys with comparable stats made significant contributions on defense and significant contributions to winning teams.

Avenged
02-07-2011, 02:34 AM
no way. but i really like the way u broke it down with the questions though. good post

That's the only reason this thread didn't start off so bad because it would have if he wouldn't have broke it down like that.

Anyways, I don't think Elton stands a chance in my opinion.. I mean, unless he suddenly plays for a really good playoff team, starts winning, and starts to rack up some individual awards..

SB1
02-07-2011, 02:38 AM
good post but no he doesnt make it.

dodie53
02-07-2011, 02:40 AM
nope.
sorry.

John Walls Era
02-07-2011, 02:41 AM
Number-wise yes. He was one of the few PFs who avged 20 and 10 last decade. However hes only been in the playoffs once and that will certainly hurt his HOF chances.

His WinShares during his prime was really good, so its tough to pin his team's futility on him. But unfortunately thats what it comes to sometimes... team success plays a large role in determining who is or isn't a HOF. I can't see him making it if Rodman doesn't even make it.

bholly
02-07-2011, 02:43 AM
I don't think so.

And maybe this is homerism, but I'm not sure the Sixers can be considered a 'very bad team' anymore.

Antipod
02-07-2011, 02:49 AM
NO. Not because his numbers are not HOF worth, but `cause there are many many players that deserve it more than him.

KingsAndNiners
02-07-2011, 02:55 AM
If Brand goes then Chris Webber should be a lock. lmao. I don't think either makes it tho. I love Webber tho, dude was a beast.

PrettyBoyJ
02-07-2011, 02:57 AM
good numbers but you gotta win at some point in your career in order to get the them to start THINKING of considering you

LongWayFromHome
02-07-2011, 03:01 AM
I don't think so.

And maybe this is homerism, but I'm not sure the Sixers can be considered a 'very bad team' anymore.

Yeah, sorry. They are more of a average/slightly below avg team. Of course over their last 30 games they are a GOOD team. I guess I was just trying to point out that him being possibly the most productive player on that team isn't very impressive.

Chacarron
02-07-2011, 03:19 AM
He was a beast, but still a no because his teams were not playoff teams most of the time.

YoungOne
02-07-2011, 03:51 AM
maybe he wins something with the sixers :D

knickfan4life
02-07-2011, 04:12 AM
no chance

Hellcrooner
02-07-2011, 04:18 AM
check artis gilmores career, stats, make the same questions.
he is not in the hof.
go figure.

Webber is not in the hof neither ( yet) and he has many more acomplishments and the stats too.

Chronz
02-07-2011, 04:27 AM
If he played in the 60s he'd make it, is mo lucas in the hof? I forget but there are far worse players to make the team than brand

abe_froman
02-07-2011, 04:32 AM
If he played in the 60s he'd make it, is mo lucas in the hof? I forget but there are far worse players to make the team than brand

no,no he's not.and lucas was way more impactful and has way more accolades than brand

Chronz
02-07-2011, 04:32 AM
That's the only reason this thread didn't start off so bad because it would have if he wouldn't have broke it down like that.

Anyways, I don't think Elton stands a chance in my opinion.. I mean, unless he suddenly plays for a really good playoff team, starts winning, and starts to rack up some individual awards..

no way. but i really like the way u broke it down with the questions though. good post

I'm guessing you 2 have never heard of the keltner list?

Chronz
02-07-2011, 04:34 AM
no,no he's not.and lucas was way more impactful and has way more accolades than brand

Meant to say stokes, mo stokes. And that's debatable

Hellcrooner
02-07-2011, 04:37 AM
If he played in the 60s he'd make it, is mo lucas in the hof? I forget but there are far worse players to make the team than brand

lucas was the MAIN reason why blazers won the 77 ring.
nothing more, nothing less.
B Walton has aknowledged that many times.

championships
02-07-2011, 04:39 AM
I say no. Good numbers but no accomplishments.

abe_froman
02-07-2011, 04:52 AM
Meant to say stokes, mo stokes. And that's debatable

stokes was allowed in because the special circumstances he was dealing with(career cut down before he hit his prime).and i'm not sure about that, lucas was a top defender for a few years and played a pivotal part in a championship(not hall worthy,but more significant than brand)

Chronz
02-07-2011, 05:11 AM
lucas was the MAIN reason why blazers won the 77 ring.
nothing more, nothing less.
B Walton has aknowledged that many times.

Lol walton lied, its why they weren't **** without walton

Chronz
02-07-2011, 05:15 AM
stokes was allowed in because the special circumstances he was dealing with(career cut down before he hit his prime).and i'm not sure about that, lucas was a top defender for a few years and played a pivotal part in a championship(not hall worthy,but more significant than brand)

Exactly why I said he'd make it if it were the 60s. You didn't even have to stand the test of time then, just show you were good for a few years. The rate at which players made the hof back in the days compared to now is absurd. Harder for one player to control his teams fate and too many good players now, so essentially the hof has become one giant list of players lucky enough to play with each other.

abe_froman
02-07-2011, 05:21 AM
Exactly why I said he'd make it if it were the 60s. You didn't even have to stand the test of time then, just show you were good for a few years. The rate at which players made the hof back in the days compared to now is absurd. Harder for one player to control his teams fate and too many good players now, so essentially the hof has become one giant list of players lucky enough to play with each other.

all hall of fames were easier to get into back then,they had to fill it up and didnt have a huge pool(compared to now) to pick from.but as time goes on,teams are added the pool got larger and thus voters held increasingly higher standards because they could afford to and also had to or else there would too many in there

the reason stokes was in was because of the accident,if he didnt have the tragedy then he might not have made it in.yes and no,using the 60's standard doesnt mean he should be in,just means alot of guys should be out

AlvaROD
02-07-2011, 05:27 AM
No, not a chance for what he has acomplish up to date

jetsfan28
02-07-2011, 05:33 AM
He wouldn't be the worst player in the Hall-of-Fame, but I just can't see him being one. Looking at his career, if you want to say he was always a PF, and Duncan was a PF, then he was always behind at least 3 guys. Malone, Garnett, Webber, Duncan, Dirk, Bosh, Gasol, Amare, at times Jamison and Sheed, and even Abdur-Rahim for Brand's first couple of years, there were always at least 3, often more, better PF's than him.

rhino17
02-07-2011, 05:33 AM
Elton Brand has only had a marginally better career thaqn Shareef Abdul Raheem, so not even close

Antoine Walker has a stronger case

Hellcrooner
02-07-2011, 05:38 AM
Imo only Pfowards that have played in the 00s and are not already in the hof(malone is already isnt he?) and go into the hof are Duncan, Kg, Pau, Dirk.
Sheed and Webber have a chance.

the abdur rahims, stous, boshs , brands and boozers have been nice but not enough.

koLohe2133
02-07-2011, 07:16 AM
Bahahahahahahaahahahahaha

NO!

DitchDat
02-07-2011, 07:57 AM
I don't think he should be in the HOF, he has the numbers, but a lot of players have good numbers.

blahblahyoutoo
02-07-2011, 01:11 PM
absolutely not.

Sandman
02-07-2011, 01:37 PM
The Chris Webber name drop got me thinking. Webber >>>> Brand and Webber is closer to the bubble. Then the Shareef name drop on top of that pushed me over the edge. Is Brand really a standout player of this generation (to the point where you enshrine him, anyway) and if Brand IS... then how many other guys would deserve to be in?

Raidaz4Life
02-07-2011, 01:55 PM
No

TheDiggler
02-07-2011, 02:01 PM
I say no to Brand, great Numbers, but he's missing something that makes him HOF Material.

I'd rather put Big Ben Wallace in the HOF than Elton John Brand.

hvg
02-07-2011, 02:03 PM
His only shot is if he somehow becomes playoff relevant in the next few years (gets traded to a contender / philly becomes a contender + averages 15/10 in the playoffs).

Baller1
02-07-2011, 02:08 PM
No chance in hell Brand makes it into the Hall of Fame.

KingPosey
02-07-2011, 02:15 PM
Mitch Richmond.

No.

God i hope you are saying Mitch deserves to get in. He is my all timer, and i dont wanna hate you...

magichatnumber9
02-07-2011, 02:34 PM
When I think Elton Brand I think of:bs::moon: Hell NO

Sadds The Gr8
02-07-2011, 02:37 PM
I'm guessing you 2 have never heard of the keltner list?

nope

BALLER R
02-07-2011, 02:43 PM
a good question is what will he be remembered for..off the top of my head when i hear elton brand my mind is just blank.

PhillyFaninLA
02-07-2011, 02:46 PM
Keep in mind its the basketball HOF not NBA. How was his college career?

PhillyFaninLA
02-07-2011, 02:56 PM
Also stats and play off appearances don't tell the story. If you use stats alone Vinny Testervde makes the HOF. If you use the playoffs Ken Griffey Jr. does not make the HOF.

You need to judge the player and not the stats and team. The HOF is a individual accomplishment. You need to ask why didn't they have more playoff appearances and success and why are the stats what they are to judge a players value. Also you need to actually see them play and do that have that dominance and intimidation the HOF'ers bring.

limebalz05
02-07-2011, 02:59 PM
No way. Elton Brand reminds me of SAR (Sharif Abdul Rahim). Both players had good offensive #'s, but were never defensive forces nor were they on winning teams.

limebalz05
02-07-2011, 03:02 PM
Keep in mind its the basketball HOF not NBA. How was his college career?

If my memory is correct, he played one season at Duke with that talented team. I believe he had that sharp shooter as a SG who never materialized in the NBA. There was also a PG too!

The team he was on was very good, but I think they were upset in the tourney!

ManningToTyree
02-07-2011, 03:03 PM
No way. too injury prone and a career loser.

thekmp211
02-07-2011, 03:04 PM
closer than being given credit, but no. a better shareef abdur-raheem. hopefully he just gets to play some winning ball at the end of his career.

thekmp211
02-07-2011, 03:05 PM
No way. Elton Brand reminds me of SAR (Sharif Abdul Rahim). Both players had good offensive #'s, but were never defensive forces nor were they on winning teams.

brand is definitely a much better player on both sides of the ball, but as you can see in my previous post i made the same comparison.

LongWayFromHome
02-07-2011, 03:13 PM
If my memory is correct, he played one season at Duke with that talented team. I believe he had that sharp shooter as a SG who never materialized in the NBA. There was also a PG too!

The team he was on was very good, but I think they were upset in the tourney!

He played two seasons at Duke. The SG you are referring to is Trajon Langdon. The PG is William Avery. Not looking anything up - off the top of my head Corey Magette was a 1st rounder from that team after his FR season and not even a starter.

Rip Hamilton hit the game winning shot for UCONN against them in the championship i think

They may have been undefeated before that game

JayTee1981
02-07-2011, 03:19 PM
I dont believe Elton Brand should be allowed in the HoF

bovice163
02-07-2011, 03:27 PM
lol






No.

ackar
02-07-2011, 03:44 PM
nice player but no

Lim
02-07-2011, 05:34 PM
not a chance. maybe if he didnt get injured and put up a few more 20/10 seasons i could see it but nah

yangx620
02-07-2011, 05:48 PM
he had a good career, but not hall of fame credential...i know he played for many mediocre teams and stuff but the fact is he played in an era that was dominated by first ballot hall of famers of duncan, garnett, and dirk....

heck he might even be below rasheed wallace and c-webb

yangx620
02-07-2011, 05:49 PM
He played two seasons at Duke. The SG you are referring to is Trajon Langdon. The PG is William Avery. Not looking anything up - off the top of my head Corey Magette was a 1st rounder from that team after his FR season and not even a starter.

Rip Hamilton hit the game winning shot for UCONN against them in the championship i think

They may have been undefeated before that game

langdon was a top 6 pick i beleive by the cavs, dude was a bust, but heard he's having a good career in russia or something, will avery was will avery, and mcgette has a decent career

0nekhmer
02-07-2011, 05:52 PM
who?

Clutch™
02-07-2011, 06:03 PM
Not even close.

rhymeratic
02-07-2011, 06:22 PM
Mitch Richmond is a great comparison career wise.

I agree...

No to Elton Brand, great guy. He needed to get his team to the finals that one year Allen Iverson style to get into the HOF imo.

DwayneMVPwade
02-07-2011, 06:25 PM
Not even

blams
02-07-2011, 06:27 PM
no

Jewelz0376
02-07-2011, 06:34 PM
wtf??? There is really a thread on this?? lol..hell no he's not a hof'er

JordansBulls
02-07-2011, 06:39 PM
Same here.

+100.

Elton Brand has been an allstar like twice in his career.

NJBASEBALL22
02-07-2011, 06:55 PM
The Chris Webber name drop got me thinking. Webber >>>> Brand and Webber is closer to the bubble. Then the Shareef name drop on top of that pushed me over the edge. Is Brand really a standout player of this generation (to the point where you enshrine him, anyway) and if Brand IS... then how many other guys would deserve to be in?

That is the answer right there.

NJBASEBALL22
02-07-2011, 07:03 PM
Trajan Langdon was the 11th pick by the Cavs. He was a bust, I'm thinking he was too small to be a shooting guard and didn't have enough ball skills to be a point guard. He could've thrived as a 3 pt. specialist with a big creator like MJ, Magic, Wade, or Lebron.

Lake_Show2416
02-07-2011, 07:09 PM
Haha no

MackSnackWrap
02-07-2011, 07:19 PM
No.

knicks4life33
02-07-2011, 07:41 PM
This thread has to be a jokeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

rhino17
02-07-2011, 08:22 PM
Imo only Pfowards that have played in the 00s and are not already in the hof(malone is already isnt he?) and go into the hof are Duncan, Kg, Pau, Dirk.
Sheed and Webber have a chance.

the abdur rahims, stous, boshs , brands and boozers have been nice but not enough.

How the hell can you put Pau in the HOF and not Webber? That is insane

Pau was never anywhere close to the player CWEBB was in his prime

Chronz
02-07-2011, 08:49 PM
No way. Elton Brand reminds me of SAR (Sharif Abdul Rahim). Both players had good offensive #'s, but were never defensive forces nor were they on winning teams.
Shareef had decent numbers, definitely not Elton Brand #'s, and Brand could defend maybe not at an elite level but far better than Shareef. The 2 arent even comparable, Shareef couldnt win in the East with a decent cast. Brand couldnt win in the tough west with **** support.


Elton Brand has only had a marginally better career thaqn Shareef Abdul Raheem, so not even close

Antoine Walker has a stronger case
Walker has a horrible case, he was a cancerous chucker. Brand was BY FAR the better player, and Shareef was a hybrid forward who couldnt defend either position. Brand ***** on both these guys


Imo only Pfowards that have played in the 00s and are not already in the hof(malone is already isnt he?) and go into the hof are Duncan, Kg, Pau, Dirk.
Sheed and Webber have a chance.

the abdur rahims, stous, boshs , brands and boozers have been nice but not enough.
Based on your dumb criteria, Amare should be a no brainer as he has one of the highest winning% of all PF's.



How the hell can you put Pau in the HOF and not Webber? That is insane

Pau was never anywhere close to the player CWEBB was in his prime

He won a title, what you dont like the winning argument when it gos against a guy you support?


all hall of fames were easier to get into back then,they had to fill it up and didnt have a huge pool(compared to now) to pick from.but as time goes on,teams are added the pool got larger and thus voters held increasingly higher standards because they could afford to and also had to or else there would too many in there
Sounds like BS reasoning to me, if there are worse players in there then superior players should be let in. Thats just me


the reason stokes was in was because of the accident,if he didnt have the tragedy then he might not have made it in.yes and no,using the 60's standard doesnt mean he should be in,just means alot of guys should be out

AMEN to that, rectify the problem and Ill be happy. Until then Brand is better than a HOF considering what a joke it is.

Hellcrooner
02-07-2011, 08:57 PM
How the hell can you put Pau in the HOF and not Webber? That is insane

Pau was never anywhere close to the player CWEBB was in his prime

its the BASKETBALL HALL OF FAME.

not the NBA hall of fame.

so that world cup gold, that olympic silver, that league with barcelona count.

Oh and if you forgot, he was traded to a first round exit team and suddenly it became a three time finalist back to back ring winner and counting.

KingPosey
02-08-2011, 12:00 AM
Mitch Richmond is a great comparison career wise.

I agree...

No to Elton Brand, great guy. He needed to get his team to the finals that one year Allen Iverson style to get into the HOF imo.

Dont een put Brand in the same sentence as "The Rock".:mad:

rhino17
02-08-2011, 08:50 AM
He won a title, what you dont like the winning argument when it gos against a guy you support?

he didnt win a title as the go to guy, teams with Pau leading them never went anywhere, Webber's teams were perennial contenders and were cheated out of a finals appearance.

Chronz
02-08-2011, 02:48 PM
he didnt win a title as the go to guy, teams with Pau leading them never went anywhere, Webber's teams were perennial contenders and were cheated out of a finals appearance.
So what, he won more. How do you differentiate what he couldve done with Webbers talent base (a team that could win 55+ without him) with what Webber couldve done with his? Trust me this is going somewhere

Besides you had no problem putting Antoine Walker above Brand when he never led his teams anywhere, when the C's were good he was behind Pierce. Walker "led" teams missed the playoffs in the East.

thekmp211
02-08-2011, 02:50 PM
i do agree that the statistical benchmarks for HoF induction need to be reevaluated.

JNA17
02-08-2011, 03:10 PM
not even close.

Hellcrooner
02-08-2011, 06:10 PM
he didnt win a title as the go to guy, teams with Pau leading them never went anywhere, Webber's teams were perennial contenders and were cheated out of a finals appearance.

bibbym, jackson, stojackovix, crhstie, divac ,turkoglu etc

vs white chocolate, battier, stroile swift, lorenzen wright etc.

man its funny when people try to blame pau as a - because he "Only" took tht pack of scrubs 3 times to the playoffs.
on the contrary it shoudl be a bIG plus.

take an example, the next big thingm god superspart on the make is not being able to lead a much more talented clippers to the playoffs.

Chronz
02-08-2011, 06:23 PM
LOL how are the Clippers more talented than a young Paus Grizzly team?

BucktownUSA
02-08-2011, 07:11 PM
Elton Brand and HOF don't go together

Chronz
02-08-2011, 07:26 PM
Elton Brand and HOF don't go together

Your right, HOF isnt an individual award.

Hellcrooner
02-08-2011, 08:25 PM
LOL how are the Clippers more talented than a young Paus Grizzly team?

just count past-present and future allstars in the rosters.

grizzlies had 0 besides pau.

Madtown22
02-08-2011, 08:46 PM
Is this a serious thread?

Geargo Wallace
02-08-2011, 08:54 PM
No he won't.

rhino17
02-08-2011, 10:10 PM
bibbym, jackson, stojackovix, crhstie, divac ,turkoglu etc

vs white chocolate, battier, stroile swift, lorenzen wright etc.

man its funny when people try to blame pau as a - because he "Only" took tht pack of scrubs 3 times to the playoffs.
on the contrary it shoudl be a bIG plus.

take an example, the next big thingm god superspart on the make is not being able to lead a much more talented clippers to the playoffs.

You much watch very little NBA basketball if you think Pau has ever played anywhere close to the level of Cwebb


So what, he won more. How do you differentiate what he couldve done with Webbers talent base (a team that could win 55+ without him) with what Webber couldve done with his? Trust me this is going somewhere

Besides you had no problem putting Antoine Walker above Brand when he never led his teams anywhere, when the C's were good he was behind Pierce. Walker "led" teams missed the playoffs in the East.

Jesus, you are dumb

you should get your sarcasm meter checked out

johnnychan
02-08-2011, 10:32 PM
No way, come on MAAAAN!

Chronz
02-08-2011, 10:41 PM
just count past-present and future allstars in the rosters.
The Clippers have 1 All-Star, Blake. Counting past All-Stars is IRRELEVANT. Future All-Stars are also irrelevant.


grizzlies had 0 besides pau.
Grizzlies could win with Pau playing minimal minutes. Its clear they had more talent than the current Clips.

LakersA's49ers
02-08-2011, 10:41 PM
lol i dont think so. but he is a solid 4

Chronz
02-08-2011, 10:45 PM
Jesus, you are dumbComing from you this means nothing.


you should get your sarcasm meter checked out
You should learn how to phrase things in a sarcastic manner if you dont mean them.

PS Why sidestep the question I asked you? I KNOW your not being sarcastic about C-Webb vs Pau.

uprightciti
02-08-2011, 10:47 PM
if he was on the right team at the right time then yes

He got screwed on the clippers HARD

WizFan3
02-08-2011, 10:55 PM
on a scale from 1 to 10 id give it about a 0

Jiggie
02-08-2011, 10:59 PM
Is this a serious thread? lol...

Hellcrooner
02-08-2011, 11:32 PM
The Clippers have 1 All-Star, Blake. Counting past All-Stars is IRRELEVANT. Future All-Stars are also irrelevant.


Grizzlies could win with Pau playing minimal minutes. Its clear they had more talent than the current Clips.

o yeah? what was their record the years prior to his arrival, then after the three playoff seasons what happened to the team when he missed a third of the season?

Chronz
02-09-2011, 01:18 AM
o yeah? what was their record the years prior to his arrival
LOL They were 23-59 before him and 23-59 the year after. I dont see what point you were trying to make here. A moron would say nothing changed but if you dig deeper you could see they improved the core of the team.


then after the three playoff seasons what happened to the team when he missed a third of the season?
Alot happened, it wasnt just the loss of Gasol. They traded away their defensive captain in Shane Battier for Rudy Gay. Eddie Jones suffered a DRAMATIC decline, they lost Lorenzen Wright, replaced Bobby Jackson with Chucky Atkins. Any more questions or are you going to actually address the issue of how the Clippers are more talented than a team that could make the playoffs with Gasol playing as little as 31MPG one year.

I remember those years like it was yesterday, Hubie Brown got everyone to buy into his 10-12 man rotations, it was a great coaching job. I do think they wouldve been better with Pau playing more but the mere fact that they were that deep says alot about their talent base atleast compared to what the Clippers field right now.

Face it bro you were caught trying to hype up your hero and downplay the american kid who is WAY AHEAD of Pau in his developmental stages. The FACTS are, the Clippers arent more talented than the teams an older Pau had in Memphis. If you cant see that then you are truly as bias as others claim you are. I didnt want to believe it but your making them look right.

Hellcrooner
02-09-2011, 01:29 AM
LOL They were 23-59 before him and 23-59 the year after. I dont see what point you were trying to make here. A moron would say nothing changed but if you dig deeper you could see they improved the core of the team.


Alot happened, it wasnt just the loss of Gasol. They traded away their defensive captain in Shane Battier for Rudy Gay. Eddie Jones suffered a DRAMATIC decline, they lost Lorenzen Wright, replaced Bobby Jackson with Chucky Atkins. Any more questions or are you going to actually address the issue of how the Clippers are more talented than a team that could make the playoffs with Gasol playing as little as 31MPG one year.

I remember those years like it was yesterday, Hubie Brown got everyone to buy into his 10-12 man rotations, it was a great coaching job. I do think they wouldve been better with Pau playing more but the mere fact that they were that deep says alot about their talent base atleast compared to what the Clippers field right now.

Face it bro you were caught trying to hype up your hero and downplay the american kid who is WAY AHEAD of Pau in his developmental stages. The FACTS are, the Clippers arent more talented than the teams an older Pau had in Memphis. If you cant see that then you are truly as bias as others claim you are. I didnt want to believe it but your making them look right.

arent we talking here bout brand?
and as a side show bout webber?

i woudl ahve loved to see if My Lakers woudl have defeated the kings with pau instead of webber, i mean he actually has a post game and likes to attack the basket, something webber never liked to do.

btw kaman was an allstar last year.
davis has multiple allstars.
gordon will be a n allstar soon.

Chronz
02-09-2011, 02:22 PM
arent we talking here bout brand?
and as a side show bout webber?i woudl ahve loved to see if My Lakers woudl have defeated the kings with pau instead of webber, i mean he actually has a post game and likes to attack the basket, something webber never liked to do.

We're talking about alot of things in here, the Webber thing was between you and Rhino


btw kaman was an allstar last year.
Firstly Kaman has played 10 games this year and has shot 38% so even if he was a legit all-star he hasnt been one this year, hasnt played nor has he even contributed at an above average level. Secondly, hes NOT an All-Star. There is a difference between making the all-star team and being an all-star caliber player. Kaman defines the term cancerous chucker


davis has multiple allstars.
So? Shaq was an MVP, doesnt mean if my team has him it will make the playoffs.


gordon will be a n allstar soon.
Hes an All-Star now

Hellcrooner
02-09-2011, 02:32 PM
We're talking about alot of things in here, the Webber thing was between you and Rhino


Firstly Kaman has played 10 games this year and has shot 38% so even if he was a legit all-star he hasnt been one this year, hasnt played nor has he even contributed at an above average level. Secondly, hes NOT an All-Star. There is a difference between making the all-star team and being an all-star caliber player. Kaman defines the term cancerous chucker


So? Shaq was an MVP, doesnt mean if my team has him it will make the playoffs.


Hes an All-Star now game has not happened yet, so its still SOON.