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AdonalFoyle4MVP
02-06-2011, 05:22 AM
Can monta ellis score 25 ppg with any team in the nba or are his stats nicer than it looks

tredigs
02-06-2011, 05:27 AM
Dude's an incredible scorer, the Warriors aren't even top 3 in pace this year, and they have multiple other legit scoring options in David Lee, Curry, and even D. Wright. Yes, he would score somewhere near 25 points on virtually any team in the NBA.

If he played in Minny, it would be closer to 30.

AdonalFoyle4MVP
02-06-2011, 05:28 AM
And you don't think that keith smart is running the same system as nellie was and which pretty much inflates stats

tredigs
02-06-2011, 05:34 AM
And you don't think that keith smart is running the same system as nellie was and which pretty much inflates stats

No, he isn't. It's similar, but not at the pace of years past. Like I said, they aren't top 3 in Pace (as they were every other year this past decade). They're also a solid team (albeit very inconsistent) with multiple scoring options. Nothing else matters when talking about "inflated" stats.

So yeah, he'd likely put up similar numbers on most teams.

kingbrentg
02-06-2011, 05:36 AM
Any team? No way. Several teams though probably.

CityofTreez
02-06-2011, 05:39 AM
Nope.

Be happy he does it with the Warriors because it's the only team where that's possible.

I know he can come to my Sac Kings and do it though, not saying much though.

bklynny67
02-06-2011, 05:41 AM
any team? not a chance..... Lakers, Heat, Spurs, Celtics, Hawks, Knicks, Thunder, Bulls, just to name a few that he can't

tredigs
02-06-2011, 05:49 AM
Nope.

Be happy he does it with the Warriors because it's the only team where that's possible.

I know he can come to my Sac Kings and do it though, not saying much though.

haha - so you make a statement, then immediately give your team as an example of where he would do the same - entirely negating your own point. Nice.

Off the top of my head, he would very easily do it in Minny, Sac, GS (obviously), Cleveland, Phoenix, Houston, New Jersey, LAC (if you take Gordon out as their SG), Milwaukee, Detroit, New Orleans and Washington (taking Nick Young's spot).

Bear in mind that being that if he was traded to another team, that team would also lose one of - or top - scorer, so he would both fill their void, then eat into their other players current FGA's.

If there's one thing Monta can do, it's score. And every team would look for him to do just that.

PraiseJesus
02-06-2011, 07:17 AM
My hate for Ellis runs deep.

He is an overrated ballhog chuck artist

Raidaz4Life
02-06-2011, 07:25 AM
Not any team but most teams... nobody could score 25 ppg as a third option on the Heat.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-06-2011, 08:52 AM
Of course he can but with a really low efficiency.

Method28
02-06-2011, 08:54 AM
haha - so you make a statement, then immediately give your team as an example of where he would do the same - entirely negating your own point. Nice.

Off the top of my head, he would very easily do it in Minny, Sac, GS (obviously), Cleveland, Phoenix, Houston, New Jersey, LAC (if you take Gordon out as their SG), Milwaukee, Detroit, New Orleans and Washington (taking Nick Young's spot).

Bear in mind that being that if he was traded to another team, that team would also lose one of - or top - scorer, so he would both fill their void, then eat into their other players current FGA's.

If there's one thing Monta can do, it's score. And every team would look for him to do just that.

I do agree with everything youve said in this thread except that Ellis could score 25 in NOs system. They have one of the slowest paces in the NBA. Dont think it suits him very well.

MiamiWadeCounty
02-06-2011, 08:55 AM
On more than half of NBA teams, he could. On teams like the Heat, Lakers, or Celtics he wouldn't get 20 touches per game or however many he gets now.

KingPosey
02-06-2011, 09:07 AM
He can score 25 ppg and his counting stats make him look better than it is. I dont normally be the guy to do this but... hey OP, REALLY? You guys that do this, just title your threads "Hey can we compliment guys on a team I like, because i think they should get more credit than they do"

Fnom11
02-06-2011, 09:12 AM
Can he? Yes, almost any player(atleast starters) in the NBA can.

Can he do this while help his team? No. He can be like Kobe and jack 30 a game and get 25, but we all know how that works.

KingPosey
02-06-2011, 09:19 AM
Can he? Yes, almost any player(atleast starters) in the NBA can.

Can he do this while help his team? No. He can be like Kobe and jack 30 a game and get 25, but we all know how that works.

Winning championships?

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-06-2011, 12:50 PM
Can he? Yes, almost any player(atleast starters) in the NBA can.

Can he do this while help his team? No. He can be like Kobe and jack 30 a game and get 25, but we all know how that works.

:confused:

m26555
02-06-2011, 12:53 PM
Absolutely. He is a great pure scorer.

tredigs
02-06-2011, 01:26 PM
Do people realize Monta is among the best as far as FG% (46% - 36% from three) goes at the 2? Only Wade has a discernible FG% advantage at that position. This isn't Brandon Jennings we're talking about here.

210Don
02-06-2011, 01:31 PM
Do people realize Monta is among the best as far as FG% (46% - 36% from three) goes at the 2? Only Wade has a discernible FG% advantage at that position. This isn't Brandon Jennings we're talking about here.

dont hate b jenn id take him over monta anyday.

tredigs
02-06-2011, 01:33 PM
In contrast, Manu Ginobili hasn't shot 46% from the field in any of the last three seasons, and is at 43% this year (also 36% from three) putting up a fully 7 points less than Monta.

Ginobili - the chucker, I suppose.

I've blasted Monta plenty on here in the past, but his play has been fantastic for the most part this season. Dude is one of the best scorers in basketball, period.

And that's great you'd take Jennings over Monta 210, but you'd be a fool to do so.

shizzle09
02-06-2011, 01:37 PM
any people saying Monta is a product of a system simply do not watch and or under basketball. The kid attack's and finish's like D Wade. Of course his basketball IQ is -3 but the guy reads passing lanes which is why he gets steals. He can rebound and pass. Stop hating on monta. Not even a warrior fan but its obvious the guy has mad skills. If Monta played on the Knicks he would be in the all star game and would be talked about as one of the league's best scoreres. Instead we get posts from people hating.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-06-2011, 01:37 PM
In contrast, Manu Ginobili hasn't shot 46% from the field in any of the last three seasons, and is at 43% this year (also 36% from three) putting up a fully 7 points less than Monta.

Ginobili - the chucker, I suppose.

I've blasted Monta plenty on here in the past, but his play has been fantastic for the most part this season. Dude is one of the best scorers in basketball, period.

And that's great you'd take Jennings over Monta 210, but you'd be a fool to do so.

Monta gives up more points than he makes himself

210Don
02-06-2011, 01:39 PM
In contrast, Manu Ginobili hasn't shot 46% from the field in any of the last three seasons, and is at 43% this year (also 36% from three) putting up a fully 7 points less than Monta.

Ginobili - the chucker, I suppose.

I've blasted Monta plenty on here in the past, but his play has been fantastic for the most part this season. Dude is one of the best scorers in basketball, period.

And that's great you'd take Jennings over Monta 210, but you'd be a fool to do so.

not really the nba is a point guards league now, hes a tweener on a good team hed just be a liability where would u use him in the playoffs. youd have a disadvantage.
stop hating on manu that isnt necessary.

tredigs
02-06-2011, 01:44 PM
Monta gives up more points than he makes himself

I'm not even going to debate Monta's defense at length, or the Warriors defense as a whole. But understand that a solid team D benefits the production that other guards have more than any other position. An example of this is the fact that D. Rose's opponent production against him is among the worst in the NBA (despite there being arguably 5 better defenders in their rotation), and while he is in fact only marginally improved defensively over last season (where he was nowhere near the top). Ray Allen being widely regarded as a terrible defender before he came to Boston is another clear-cut example of this. Many guards play weak D, and Monta is just one of the flock.

That said, this OP was specifically talking about scoring and whether he could do it in any system, correct? Remind me what defense has to do with that?

210Don
02-06-2011, 01:51 PM
the op asks if he can score 25 on any team. which he cannot, the only other players avg 25 plus are LJ,KD,Amare & Kobe you put those 4 on any team they avg 25 no question, are we putting monta with those guys? i think not..... hes a product of his system hes a great player.But on a good team hes the 3rd option avg 16 17 points a game. hes a good player but not a superstar.

Reversed86Curse
02-06-2011, 01:53 PM
on most teams, sure. But there are a handful of 2's I'd take over him if I had to choose

Giraffes Rule
02-06-2011, 01:56 PM
Not on any team, since there are a hand full teams with better all around shooting guard that you would start before him, and several teams with multiple scoring options. He would have a tough time getting all the shots it takes him to score that much.

bagwell368
02-06-2011, 02:00 PM
If he takes 30 shots a game, maybe. He sucks.

Public Enemy #1
02-06-2011, 02:23 PM
If he takes 30 shots a game, maybe. He sucks.

:facepalm: You're so ignorant and obviously have no idea what your talking about. Ellis doesn't need to take 30 shots a game to get to 25 or for that matter 35. The guy is very efficient and is averages show that. People who think they know about Ellis and the Warriors fast paced system need to stop making dumb*** assumptions. Warriors aren't as fast as years passed and Ellis doesn't chuck up shots anymore. Of course, you would know this if you actually knew what you were talking about.

Kakaroach
02-06-2011, 02:25 PM
I wouldn't want him as a #1 option on a contending team that actually plays defense.

Bornknick73
02-06-2011, 02:35 PM
put him on the Cavs and hes a 30+ scorer.

hugepatsfan
02-06-2011, 02:39 PM
Not on a champioship team he couldn't but. I think that on a champiosnhip team he would have to be a combo guard off the bench because of his lack of defense. A Jamal Crawford type.

PraiseJesus
02-06-2011, 02:58 PM
I just checked and sure enough, Monta's fg% is .47 for his career.

That was a big surprise to me.

I will give him his props, he is a great offensive player. I just think him and Curry mix like oil and water. They are both small guards who aren't the greatest defensive players. I wish the Warriors would trade Ellis to a team like.... The Nets where Monta can just have the ball every posession

hugepatsfan
02-06-2011, 03:05 PM
I just checked and sure enough, Monta's fg% is .47 for his career.

That was a big surprise to me.

I will give him his props, he is a great offensive player. I just think him and Curry mix like oil and water. They are both small guards who aren't the greatest defensive players. I wish the Warriors would trade Ellis to a team like.... The Nets where Monta can just have the ball every posession

I'd kill to have Monta as a combo guard off the bench for BOS. I think he could be a great scorer off the bench (15 points or so) and playing w/ Perk, KG, Baby, Pierce, Rondo, etc. would help hide his defensive weakness.

PraiseJesus
02-06-2011, 03:38 PM
I'd kill to have Monta as a combo guard off the bench for BOS. I think he could be a great scorer off the bench (15 points or so) and playing w/ Perk, KG, Baby, Pierce, Rondo, etc. would help hide his defensive weakness.

Off the bench, Monta would be a beast. Good point.

We both know he would not be happy doing that though. You can tell he wants to be Kobe Bryant

shizzle09
02-06-2011, 03:46 PM
If he takes 30 shots a game, maybe. He sucks.

he takes the same amount of shots per game as Durant & Kobe. Guess they suck to since they have to shoot as much as monta to avg close to the same. good call. :facepalm:

Hawkeye15
02-06-2011, 03:57 PM
for teams that play at a high pace, or are weak at the SG position, most likely. If you put him on a stacked team, he wouldn't get 41 mpg, and get to throw the rock up 22+ times a night, so no.

LakersA's49ers
02-06-2011, 03:58 PM
My hate for Ellis runs deep.

He is an overrated ballhog chuck artist

holy ******* bro. how could you possibly say he's ovverated. he's a PG that shoots 46%, he makes getting into paint look easy, and he can hit the occasional 3(36%). And 5.6 assists doesn't hurt either

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-06-2011, 03:58 PM
In contrast, Manu Ginobili hasn't shot 46% from the field in any of the last three seasons, and is at 43% this year (also 36% from three) putting up a fully 7 points less than Monta.

Ginobili - the chucker, I suppose.

I've blasted Monta plenty on here in the past, but his play has been fantastic for the most part this season. Dude is one of the best scorers in basketball, period.

And that's great you'd take Jennings over Monta 210, but you'd be a fool to do so.

Don't put Ellis and Ginobili in the same sentence.

Manu could be this season's MVP

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-06-2011, 04:02 PM
holy ******* bro. how could you possibly say he's ovverated. he's a PG that shoots 46%, he makes getting into paint look easy, and he can hit the occasional 3(36%). And 5.6 assists doesn't hurt either

He isn't overrated as a scorer, but he is as whole player.

Giraffes Rule
02-06-2011, 04:09 PM
:facepalm: You're so ignorant and obviously have no idea what your talking about. Ellis doesn't need to take 30 shots a game to get to 25 or for that matter 35. The guy is very efficient and is averages show that. People who think they know about Ellis and the Warriors fast paced system need to stop making dumb*** assumptions. Warriors aren't as fast as years passed and Ellis doesn't chuck up shots anymore. Of course, you would know this if you actually knew what you were talking about.

Monta Ellis isn't efficient, at all. Plays 41 minutes a game, has taken more shots than anyone in the league, and is nowhere to be found on the list of top PER players or true shooting percentage. Of course, you would know this if you actually knew what you were talking about.;)

clehmun
02-06-2011, 04:33 PM
There are about 25 players who can average 25 ppg.
There are less than 10 players who can average 25 ppg on a good team.
There are 3-5 players who can average 25 ppg on a contending team.

Monta fits in the first category.

LakersA's49ers
02-06-2011, 04:38 PM
He isn't overrated as a scorer, but he is as whole player.

did you see how he did on Derrick Rose yestersay. lets see, 14 points on 6-15, 10 assists and a CAREER HIGH 9 Turnovers

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-06-2011, 04:41 PM
did you see how he did on Derrick Rose yestersay. lets see, 14 points on 6-15, 10 assists and a CAREER HIGH 9 Turnovers

Monta isn't a player who's gonna carry his team to the wins/playoffs at least as a 1st option.

PraiseJesus
02-06-2011, 05:58 PM
Im pretty sure its Monta's personality that rubs people the wrong way. I know thats why I don't like him.

But when you look at his stats you can't argue that he isn't a really good player.

I think Curry is better though I wish they would trade Ellis already

sf-fanatic
02-06-2011, 06:35 PM
Monta isn't a player who's gonna carry his team to the wins/playoffs at least as a 1st option.

Bulls supporting cast + coach > warriors
Biedrins < Noah
Lee < Boozer
Wright <(maybe =?) Deng
Curry > Bogans

Smart < Thibs
Warriors Bench < Bulls Bench

I know this isn't a great comparison at all and Rose is definitely better than Ellis, but it is in no way fair because Rose is surrounded by 2 all star caliber players in (Boozer and Noah) and the Bulls play in the Eastern Conference which is more top heavy but has plenty more bottom feeders than the Western Conference.

hugepatsfan
02-06-2011, 11:52 PM
Ellis does 1 thing well - score. He is great at that. But on a champiosnhip team, I think he is a 6th man. That's not a bad thing. I think he is a 30 mpg combo guard off the bench on a good team that can score 15-17 points per game off the bench. I think that when you play him 40 minutes like GS does, you further expose the flaws in his game.

sargon21
02-06-2011, 11:59 PM
^^Rose would prob avg 35 if he played for GS, and put that team into the playoffs.

And about the pace, it hurt my eyes last night with how fast they played...

tredigs
02-06-2011, 11:59 PM
Im pretty sure its Monta's personality that rubs people the wrong way. I know thats why I don't like him.

But when you look at his stats you can't argue that he isn't a really good player.

I think Curry is better though I wish they would trade Ellis already

Why, exactly? Dude's quiet, unassuming and by all accounts very mature. Of all the NBA players to hate based on their personality, that's a very interesting choice.

edit: lol @ rose averaging 35 in GS by the way. He wouldn't sniff anywhere near 30.

asandhu23
02-07-2011, 12:25 AM
Im pretty sure its Monta's personality that rubs people the wrong way. I know thats why I don't like him.



Really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQdx2TyfHQ8

Don't judge him on the BS media spews out.

Meatmypet
02-07-2011, 12:30 AM
Why do you have an option that lets people vote YES and NO? Lol:rolleyes:

jscotty8
02-07-2011, 12:43 AM
Do people realize Monta is among the best as far as FG% (46% - 36% from three) goes at the 2? Only Wade has a discernible FG% advantage at that position. This isn't Brandon Jennings we're talking about here.

What he said... PSD has to many Monta haters right now... Efficiency in scoring is what he does best.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 12:48 AM
In contrast, Manu Ginobili hasn't shot 46% from the field in any of the last three seasons, and is at 43% this year (also 36% from three) putting up a fully 7 points less than Monta.

Ginobili - the chucker, I suppose.

I've blasted Monta plenty on here in the past, but his play has been fantastic for the most part this season. Dude is one of the best scorers in basketball, period.

And that's great you'd take Jennings over Monta 210, but you'd be a fool to do so.

Tre, you realize Monta is one dimensional, plays no defense, doesn't rebound, doesn't do a lot of things, and you just brought up Manu Ginoboli in the same sentence. I know you are trying to make a point here, but even with Monta's improved play, his win shares, and overall APER, and PER, are that of a chucker. His offensive rating suggests so as well.

Don't bring up Manu, robbed of a finals MVP, and imo, an MVP candidate for this year, and a great shooting guard who plays on both sides, and stick him in a sentence with Monta Ellis dude. Cmon.

Look, we all know he can score. But it comes at the expense of everything else involved in the game. He is not one of the best scorers in basketball. he is one of the better scorers given monster minutes and shots. Is he improved this year? From the last 2, yep. He was still better as a 3rd option with big perimeter players next to him to mask his inefficiencies.

baghdadbob
02-07-2011, 12:51 AM
People confuse his motorcycle accident with being a "bad dude." I just don't see all the negativity.

OT: I heard his brother was better than him and 5 inches taller.

baghdadbob
02-07-2011, 12:53 AM
Manu might be the most over rated player in the NBA. Wilson Chandler bombed him for 30 in the Garden. Manu can't even stay in front of Monta for 2 seconds.

I like Manu but folks gotta stop talking him up like Larry Legend.

Giraffes Rule
02-07-2011, 12:53 AM
What he said... PSD has to many Monta haters right now... Efficiency in scoring is what he does best.

:facepalm:

Read my previous post regarding Monta's efficiency. He's not an efficient scorer.

210Don
02-07-2011, 01:00 AM
Manu might be the most over rated player in the NBA. Wilson Chandler bombed him for 30 in the Garden. Manu can't even stay in front of Monta for 2 seconds.

I like Manu but folks gotta stop talking him up like Larry Legend.

:facepalm:

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 01:01 AM
Manu might be the most over rated player in the NBA. Wilson Chandler bombed him for 30 in the Garden. Manu can't even stay in front of Monta for 2 seconds.

I like Manu but folks gotta stop talking him up like Larry Legend.

Are you insane? Manu is overrated? Wow.

Nobody is saying he is Larry dude. But he is one of the better SG's over the past 10 years, and there is no debating that in the slightest. Guy is pure money when the game is on the line. Not sure if you have watched the Spurs or not. I would guess not.

tredigs
02-07-2011, 01:02 AM
Tre, you realize Monta is one dimensional, plays no defense, doesn't rebound, doesn't do a lot of things, and you just brought up Manu Ginoboli in the same sentence. I know you are trying to make a point here, but even with Monta's improved play, his win shares, and overall APER, and PER, are that of a chucker. His offensive rating suggests so as well.

Don't bring up Manu, robbed of a finals MVP, and imo, an MVP candidate for this year, and a great shooting guard who plays on both sides, and stick him in a sentence with Monta Ellis dude. Cmon.

Look, we all know he can score. But it comes at the expense of everything else involved in the game. He is not one of the best scorers in basketball. he is one of the better scorers given monster minutes and shots. Is he improved this year? From the last 2, yep. He was still better as a 3rd option with big perimeter players next to him to mask his inefficiencies.

The point of the Ginobili remark was not to compare him to Manu, but to illuminate a guy who scores less with similar efficiencies to Monta (his elite FT shooting being the glaring diff, but he also scores much less - which would mean his Efg %'s would drop in efficiency as his volume increased). Monta has a plethora of weaknesses in both his offensive and defensive game, but he has improved, and his scoring is still not that of a "chucker" as far as my definition goes. Chuckers shoot in the high 30's/low 40's, while Monta is an absolute rock solid scoring option. His shot volume/efficiency is virtually identical to Kobe - for comparison's sake.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 01:08 AM
The point of the Ginobili remark was not to compare him to Manu, but to illuminate a guy who scores less with similar efficiencies to Monta (his elite FT shooting being the glaring diff, but he also scores much less - which would mean his %'s would drop in efficiency as he scored more). Monta has a plethora of weaknesses in both his offensive and defensive game, but he has improved, and his scoring is still not that of a "chucker" as far as my definition goes. Chuckers shoot in the high 30's/low 40's, while Monta is an absolute rock solid scoring option. His shot volume/efficiency is virtually identical to Kobe - for comparison's sake.

Monta gets shots off opportunity a LOT more than Monta. With increased shot attempts (meaning he would need to play a ton more minutes, because that is how Monta gets his per game stats), you would actually expect a player like Manu to stay the same, worst case. You are assuming usage going up I assume. Correct? I don't think Manu's usage would need to go up at all if he simply looked for his shot more, and with Manu's slightly higher foul draw rate, you get an even greater disparity in their TS% than there is now (and its big, as is their eFG%). Pair up the offensive ratings, and it shows that Ellis, yet again, isn't an elite OFFENSIVE player. Scoring is only a small part of offense, albeit the ideal end of that possession.

Monta is better this year. But lets not kid ourselves that he has entered the conversation as a franchise player, ie, something you build around to win tons of games. He is simply another scorer who loves to shoot in the blip of time.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 01:10 AM
and I get you weren't trying to compare Monta to Manu man. Just didn't like the names being brought up next to each other regardless, my bad.

Giraffes Rule
02-07-2011, 01:15 AM
Stat Manu Monta
PER 22.5 19.2
TS% .590 .543
USG% 26.1 28.6
Orate 117 107
OWS 4.5 3.1

Manu still is a better scorer than Monta. Then you throw in how much better he is defensively, and add his passing and ability to make the players around him better, and there's just no way you could argue that Monta is better than Manu.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 01:22 AM
Stat Manu Monta
PER 22.5 19.2
TS% .590 .543
USG% 26.1 28.6
Orate 117 107
OWS 4.5 3.1

Manu still is a better scorer than Monta. Then you throw in how much better he is defensively, and add his passing and ability to make the players around him better, and there's just no way you could argue that Monta is better than Manu.

Tre wasn't saying he was better. He was simply saying a guy with a FG% of 47, shouldn't be considered as such. I would argue that the league average for TS% is 54, so Monta is basically an above average scorer who just shoots. A lot. But watching him play, you can see he has talent in that single aspect of the game. If you subtract the 4 attempts a game that make no sense to anyone who has ever watched basketball, he is actually a decent scoring player. He just gets a bit shot crazy at times.

At the end of his career, if he doesn't get more selective, he will indeed join the chuckers crew however.

Giraffes Rule
02-07-2011, 01:26 AM
Tre wasn't saying he was better. He was simply saying a guy with a FG% of 47, shouldn't be considered as such. I would argue that the league average for TS% is 54, so Monta is basically an above average scorer who just shoots. A lot. But watching him play, you can see he has talent in that single aspect of the game. If you subtract the 4 attempts a game that make no sense to anyone who has ever watched basketball, he is actually a decent scoring player. He just gets a bit shot crazy at times.

At the end of his career, if he doesn't get more selective, he will indeed join the chuckers crew however.

That was more in response to the guy saying Manu is overrated.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 01:28 AM
That was more in response to the guy saying Manu is overrated.

haha, my bad dude. But I don't think you or I need to bother waking up Joshtd1 to get involved in that haha. We can handle that ****

NothingbutWill
02-07-2011, 01:35 AM
If Monta is the 1st option on a team, maybe even 2nd option I'm pretty sure he can get 25ppg with almost any team.

"OMG MONTA ELLIS THREAD? MUST BASH!!"

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 01:44 AM
If Monta is the 1st option on a team, maybe even 2nd option I'm pretty sure he can get 25ppg with almost any team.

Love how all the usual hate trolls come flocking to a Monta Ellis thread.

"OMG MONTA ELLIS THREAD? MUST BASH!!"

when did this happen? I mean, I have always been hard on Monta in threads that need a response, but man, he is the Mike James answer now to anything negative. Getting on my nerves....

NothingbutWill
02-07-2011, 01:51 AM
when did this happen? I mean, I have always been hard on Monta in threads that need a response, but man, he is the Mike James answer now to anything negative. Getting on my nerves....

Well people have their own opinions about certain players but it seems that Monta just gets bashed more recently. I am a Warriors fan and I have no idea why most people seem to hate him. Maybe it's some Warriors fan putting him up so high that it gets on people's nerves?

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 01:59 AM
Well people have their own opinions about certain players but it seems that Monta just gets bashed more recently. I am a Warriors fan and I have no idea why most people seem to hate him. Maybe it's some Warriors fan putting him up so high that it gets on people's nerves?

well, maybe. I mean, I have spent countless posts talking about his inefficiencies, but I can think of 300+ worse NBA players. Easily. I don't get why he has become the comical answer to bad things now.

Whatever. Don't pay attention to it bro. If anything, it will irk the rational guys to start giving him more credit haha.

NothingbutWill
02-07-2011, 02:05 AM
well, maybe. I mean, I have spent countless posts talking about his inefficiencies, but I can think of 300+ worse NBA players. Easily. I don't get why he has become the comical answer to bad things now.

Whatever. Don't pay attention to it bro. If anything, it will irk the rational guys to start giving him more credit haha.

Yeah, definitely. Monta isn't the best player in the NBA, he's probably not even in the top 10 but he's doing his thing to win games and he's grown a lot since last season. I think it's because of how much he was a shot chucker last season that people are still focusing on and being on a bad team doesn't help his argument either.

Thanks for the positive words. :)

sf-fanatic
02-07-2011, 02:05 AM
Stat Manu Monta
PER 22.5 19.2
TS% .590 .543
USG% 26.1 28.6
Orate 117 107
OWS 4.5 3.1

Manu still is a better scorer than Monta. Then you throw in how much better he is defensively, and add his passing and ability to make the players around him better, and there's just no way you could argue that Monta is better than Manu.

And the better supporting cast including possibly the best PF of all time and one of the best coaches ever that knows how to utilize his strength.

Manu is better than Monta, but I want to see what Monta can do with a respected coach and a good supporting cast. With a coach like Popovich or Jackson, Monta might be more sold on defense and team play.

whitemamba33
02-07-2011, 02:06 AM
lol I can't think of a bigger sports turn-off than people talking about the stats of guys on losing teams.

I'm sorry to all the Blake Griffin's, Kevin Love's, and Monta Ellis' out there...but being the best player on teams that have won 19, 11, and 22 games respectively is not really something to write home about.

Can he get to 25 points? I think he should be more concearned about getting to 25 wins before the all star break. If he has a problem with his role or the structure of the team, it's his job to do something about it. This isn't high school basketball. If he wants to be something special, he should act like it.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 02:07 AM
And the better supporting cast including possibly the best PF of all time and one of the best coaches ever that knows how to utilize his strength.

Manu is better than Monta, but I want to see what Monta can do with a respected coach and a good supporting cast. With a coach like Popovich or Jackson, Monta might be more sold on defense and team play.

now this is something regarding Monta I can agree with. When did he have his best year? When he had roster support and they stunned the Mavs.
I would like to see Monta in a structured system with a defined role, versus playing playground ball like the Warriors have for a while. I think it would benefit Monta big time.

Monta is beast
02-07-2011, 02:29 AM
I dont understand why so many people hate on Ellis. I mean of course he can't score 25 ppg on any team. Only the elite of the elite can do that. But everyone disregards his play & makes him out to be exactly what he isn't. Yeah he takes alot of shot's, but he also has a pretty decent FG %. Yeah he is an undersized SG, but what can he do about that lol. Get off of his back for once.

robbnen#31
02-07-2011, 02:42 AM
^^Rose would prob avg 35 if he played for GS, and put that team into the playoffs.

And about the pace, it hurt my eyes last night with how fast they played...

This post is astonishing, given how the Warriors have slowed the pace down quite a bit since the departure of Don Nelson.




Stat Manu Monta
PER 22.5 19.2
TS% .590 .543
USG% 26.1 28.6
Orate 117 107
OWS 4.5 3.1

Manu still is a better scorer than Monta. Then you throw in how much better he is defensively, and add his passing and ability to make the players around him better, and there's just no way you could argue that Monta is better than Manu.

I'm not disputing these statistics, but are these based off of this year or their entire careers. I'm sure the career statistics would support the argument for Manu even more, but doing a comparison just from this year seems like it would run into a potential issue of small sample size.

Raph12
02-07-2011, 02:42 AM
Depends on how efficiently... Most players can score 25+, but it depends on how many touches they need to do it.

Antipod
02-07-2011, 02:50 AM
Yes.The only one that stops him is Curry :D

sargon21
02-07-2011, 03:06 AM
This post is astonishing, given how the Warriors have slowed the pace down quite a bit since the departure of Don Nelson.



I'm not disputing these statistics, but are these based off of this year or their entire careers. I'm sure the career statistics would support the argument for Manu even more, but doing a comparison just from this year seems like it would run into a potential issue of small sample size.

35 was obviously an exaggeration, but I would bet that Rose would do what is needed to get that team in the playoffs, without a doubt in my mind. If he had to avg. 30 to do that, I think he would.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 03:21 AM
This post is astonishing, given how the Warriors have slowed the pace down quite a bit since the departure of Don Nelson.



I'm not disputing these statistics, but are these based off of this year or their entire careers. I'm sure the career statistics would support the argument for Manu even more, but doing a comparison just from this year seems like it would run into a potential issue of small sample size.

Manu's win shares, offensive rating, TS%, eFG%, and overall rating across the board make this a joke of a comparison. Even if you want to isolate this season.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 03:22 AM
35 was obviously an exaggeration, but I would bet that Rose would do what is needed to get that team in the playoffs, without a doubt in my mind. If he had to avg. 30 to do that, I think he would.

no point in living in speculation world. Though I agree if you replace Rose on that team over Monta, they are much better.

NothingbutWill
02-07-2011, 03:25 AM
35 was obviously an exaggeration, but I would bet that Rose would do what is needed to get that team in the playoffs, without a doubt in my mind. If he had to avg. 30 to do that, I think he would.

Too bad we will never know if he could do it or not unless Warriors do a swap for Rose & Monta. One thing about Rose compared to Monta is that Rose can probably make the team play better overall. Monta has yet to be the single entity that can make his teammates better. Monta can win ball games, put up crazy points but he just doesn't have the skills to make this teammates better.

mcgswfan
02-07-2011, 04:42 AM
If Monta was the 1st or 2nd option on any team, he could easily average 25 points.

Plus, let's not forget that he gets absolutely no respect from the refs. It's been better this season and pretty decent for the past 3-4 games, but if he was getting foul calls like he should, he would easily get 10 free throw attempts per game and that would mean you could realistically add 5-7 more points onto his average. His efficiency would increase and he would become a much better scorer. So, it is possible to discern that he could almost average 30 points per game on any team, with the respect of the refs and if he was the 1st or 2nd option. He is just that adept at finishing plays and scoring.

He'll give up more points on occasion because of his risky plays, defensive gambles and deficiencies, but more often then not, if all the things I mentioned above were in play in every game, he would come out on top in terms of match-ups in 75% of all the games he plays.

AddiX
02-07-2011, 05:00 AM
Monta is my faovite player to watch, I've been a Monta fan way before most people were. But he will always be on a losing team. Monta wants to be the man.

PraiseJesus
02-07-2011, 08:09 AM
Why, exactly? Dude's quiet, unassuming and by all accounts very mature. Of all the NBA players to hate based on their personality, that's a very interesting choice.

edit: lol @ rose averaging 35 in GS by the way. He wouldn't sniff anywhere near 30.


Really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQdx2TyfHQ8

Don't judge him on the BS media spews out.

Im talking about his personality on the court.

He cares more about personal stats than he does winning. You can tell by his body language and also his comments on interviews.

He would rather score 25ppg and get a huge contract then be on a championship team. Thats why players don't like being his teammate.

Curry, on the other hand, just wants to win.

Manu, btw, is a team player also.

Giraffes Rule
02-07-2011, 10:47 AM
I'm not disputing these statistics, but are these based off of this year or their entire careers. I'm sure the career statistics would support the argument for Manu even more, but doing a comparison just from this year seems like it would run into a potential issue of small sample size.

Those were numbers from just this year, but for his career Monta's numbers are lower across the board. That was actually a favorable comparison for Monta.

KingPosey
02-07-2011, 02:08 PM
What he said... PSD has to many Monta haters right now... Efficiency in scoring is what he does best.

No, scoring in volume is what he does best. But he has played very well this season.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 02:17 PM
lol I can't think of a bigger sports turn-off than people talking about the stats of guys on losing teams.

I'm sorry to all the Blake Griffin's, Kevin Love's, and Monta Ellis' out there...but being the best player on teams that have won 19, 11, and 22 games respectively is not really something to write home about.

Can he get to 25 points? I think he should be more concearned about getting to 25 wins before the all star break. If he has a problem with his role or the structure of the team, it's his job to do something about it. This isn't high school basketball. If he wants to be something special, he should act like it.

So we should only talk about roughly 10 teams in the NBA in your opinion? Lonely board of a bunch of guys stroking themselves there dude. Pretty arrogant to throw down such a blanket statement that only good teams matter.
No offense to the Kobe, LeBron, or Dwight fans, but there are a ton of fans from other teams that are currently struggling. We are called real fans. How many of you will be there when your team falls off its purch and sucks? Hmm. They have a name for those, can't remember.....

Note: Obviously to the fans here who take their teams serious, and those teams happen to be bad, this post was not meant at you. Its to arrogant fans who show up when their team is good, or just cling onto a team that has always been good. And its most specifically to the poster I replied to. Realize there are fans of other teams. If you don't like it, then simply don't post in any thread about a player from a losing team, or a losing team in general if you really don't care that much.

whitemamba33
02-07-2011, 02:32 PM
So we should only talk about roughly 10 teams in the NBA in your opinion? Lonely board of a bunch of guys stroking themselves there dude. Pretty arrogant to throw down such a blanket statement that only good teams matter.
No offense to the Kobe, LeBron, or Dwight fans, but there are a ton of fans from other teams that are currently struggling. We are called real fans. How many of you will be there when your team falls off its purch and sucks? Hmm. They have a name for those, can't remember.....

Note: Obviously to the fans here who take their teams serious, and those teams happen to be bad, this post was not meant at you. Its to arrogant fans who show up when their team is good, or just cling onto a team that has always been good. And its most specifically to the poster I replied to. Realize there are fans of other teams. If you don't like it, then simply don't post in any thread about a player from a losing team, or a losing team in general if you really don't care that much.

Why do you take such a specific comment and turn it into a wide, more general one? So that you seem right? So that you can boost your post count? There has to be a reason. Because I never said we should only talk about 10 teams. I never said anything like that. My point was that putting up solid numbers on terrible teams is nothing to brag about, so winning should be their #1 focus. I'm not saying it isn't their #1 focus, just that it should be.

And all I said was that it's a personal turn off. Of course you are free to do as you choose...but you responded to me, which makes me question why you are so interested on turning me on? lol.

When the Lakers were terrible after Shaq left and Kobe was tearing up the scoresheet, I was disgusted. How does that fit into your theory?

OOPS, I'm making good points. Are you going to respond with a post full of insults, suggest we reply, and than have the thread closed again? Classic man.