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kblo247
02-05-2011, 07:29 PM
"It just shows there's a lot of politics in it, man," Aldridge said of Stern's choice. "It's not about leading your team to victories or about making your team better, it's about stats. "First of all, I have nothing against Kevin Love, he is a really good player," Aldridge said. "But I thought All-Star was about making your team better, making your record better. Keeping your team in the right direction. That's the way it has always been in the past. But now I know: It's about stats, not record."

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2011/02/indiana_100_portland_87_pacers.html


I agree with him. The fact is you aren't having an actual impact with your stats when you only help your team win 11 out of what almost 50 games so far. Historically there are only 2 bigs that have been picked from the worst team in their conference, and that was only because the teams were required to have a C. With Stern selecting a PF, Aldridge or Randolph should have been the obvious choice since their numbers actually have an actual impact on winning games, not shares, but actual games ion the win columns and making their team be better.

:clap:

nysportsfan02
02-05-2011, 07:31 PM
Kevin Love is a glorified David Lee. He is padding his stats on a team where no one except him even crashes the board. If he is so good, then he should be able to lead his team to more then 11 wins.

Raps08-09 Champ
02-05-2011, 07:33 PM
He's got a case.

Minimal
02-05-2011, 07:33 PM
I feel bad for Aldridge, he is one of my favourite players and he is so underrated.

WSU Tony
02-05-2011, 07:33 PM
Kevin Love is a glorified David Lee. He is padding his stats on a team where no one except him even crashes the board. If he is so good, then he should be able to lead his team to more then 11 wins.

You are wrong. Show me usage rates and not general statements.

bovice163
02-05-2011, 07:33 PM
It's too bad. LA is a really great player, and it finally showed this season, when he is leading a depleted Blazers team to victories. He's had plenty of criticisms about his rebounding, but he really showed this season that he is very capable on the boards.

_KB24_
02-05-2011, 07:34 PM
I really thought that Alderidge was going to be3 the replacement. He has kept the Blazers competitive with all those injuries and is their star player and puttin up good numbers in the process. Even with Love's amazing numbers, I can't come to reason how the a team as pathetic as the Wolves has any reps in the ASG.

kjoke
02-05-2011, 07:36 PM
he has a case. You go and put in duncan primarily because of the spurs winning and then you go and put love on, not really clear definition of what is what.

when roy went down i dont think anyone saw Aldridge being that teams new leader, hes bloomed into a star. He should have made it

Sadds The Gr8
02-05-2011, 07:37 PM
Love's numbers are just too hard to turn down....although i've seen him stat pad a couple times.

WSU Tony
02-05-2011, 07:38 PM
So what Aldridge is saying is that he has a better team around him which means he should be voted in? How would Aldridge feel if he put up better stats than love and didn't get voted in? He is stating what supports him. If he was on the other side of the coin he would say the same thing.

Much like most of you guys vote for the president which best supports you financially, Aldridge is just saying a "logic" which supports him.

210Don
02-05-2011, 07:38 PM
aldridge>love

AddiX
02-05-2011, 07:38 PM
It's because no one wanted to hear Hawkeye's complaining anymore.:D

WSU Tony
02-05-2011, 07:41 PM
Loves numbers are historic no matter how good or how bad of a team he plays on. Historic!


When was the last time a guy had 20 pts 15 reb and shot 40 percent from three?

kblo247
02-05-2011, 07:44 PM
Love's numbers are just too hard to turn down....although i've seen him stat pad a couple times.

The way I see it you can use the MVP argument to turn them down. Just because Kobe averages 35, 5, and 5 didn't offset the fact that he was on the 7th seed in the west. Just because Love averages 20 and 15 doesn't offset the fact that he is on the worst team in the conference and only won 11 games out of almost 50.

I've even heard the argument made that Melo isn't valuable because he is a scorer mainly, but at the end of the day the actual impact of his scoring and rebounding has resulted in his teams never having a losing record or missing the playoffs. The actual impact behind Love's 20 and 15 is negligible when you look at the actual win column, not win shares, but the actual win column and seeding where he hardly makes a dent in despite this league being the one where an individually dominant player can will his team into winning games on most nights in the regular season. If you laugh at a team like the Cavs and label them as having no star and just role players and garbage, then you conversely need to do the same for the Wolves when their record being led by Love isn't that much better than them at all

WSU Tony
02-05-2011, 07:44 PM
Any player who can lead the league in rebounds by a two rebound margin and shoot 45% from three deserves the asg

KG2TB
02-05-2011, 07:47 PM
Meh. Aldridge has a better team, better coach, and more veterans on the squad. The T-Wolves are a young team, with no identity. Kevin Love deserves to be an all-star. LA deserves to be an all-star. Someone is gonna get left out no matter how you slice it. It's unfortunate. You don't put up 30\30 games and put up the season averages he's doing if you aren't a baller. Stat padding or not, you don't put up those numbers by accident.

LA definitely flies under the radar though. Very underrated. It sucks he couldn't get on the squad, he deserves it.

fadedmario
02-05-2011, 07:47 PM
What a crybaby. Love is better than him... boohoo

WSU Tony
02-05-2011, 07:48 PM
Is the asg an individual award or a team award? Individual How do we judge players? Stats.


You guys are telling me if love had a better team around him then you would be ok with him being an all star?

Some of you need to remember that no one person will make a winning NBA team

Synyster89
02-05-2011, 07:51 PM
Any player who can lead the league in rebounds by a two rebound margin and shoot 45% from three deserves the asg

Amen to you sir...there is really no justification for Aldridge to complain. Put him on the T-Wolves and I guarantee his impactly is less significant than Love's. How can you turn away someone who is DOMINATING the league in boards??? Not to mention a relatively under sized and unathletic white guy at that?

Yunqn
02-05-2011, 07:52 PM
No its all about who's it..


Kevin love is talked about on espn.. l.a isn't.
The world thinks if kenny smith and charles barkley said it then it must be right basketball wise..

Charles barkley said kurt thomas should in the all star game!
they use to always say something bad about the bulls or we always went under the radar in everyones eyes.. andwith bosh going over boozer it shows its still the same.. tim duncan should give his spot to l.a..

Everything is all media and hype driven..
it isn't about market.. its about who espn and tv is talking about..
I mean brett favre wasn't in a big market but only for 1 season.. and he gets played everysecond..
its all media driven

But all star selections should be based moreon stats than who's team is better..
love doesn't have anything close to portland around him and that team isnt even one of the top teams..love deservesit.. and so does l.a .. duncan needs to sit this one out and no one would be snubbed.

Synyster89
02-05-2011, 07:54 PM
I really cant believe there is such a thing as a Kevin Love hater...give the guy his props.

kblo247
02-05-2011, 07:55 PM
Is the asg an individual award or a team award? Individual How do we judge players? Stats.


You guys are telling me if love had a better team around him then you would be ok with him being an all star?

Some of you need to remember that no one person will make a winning NBA team

You ever saw Kobe during 06 and 07, Lebron in Cleveland, Wade the past couple of years in Miami, Melo on the Nuggets as a rookie even, Nash when he first came to Phoenix or when Amare missed a year, Dirk in Dallas, or Kidd when he joined the Nets?

You know guys who actually helped their team win games to go along with their stats ;)

WSU Tony
02-05-2011, 07:57 PM
You ever saw Kobe during 06 and 07, Lebron in Cleveland, Wade the past couple of years in Miami, Melo on the Nuggets as a rookie even, Nash when he first came to Phoenix or when Amare missed a year, Dirk in Dallas, or Kidd when he joined the Nets?

You know guys who actually helped their team win games to go along with their stats ;)

If Aldridge were a wolf would his team be winning?

He would have LESS of an influence on that team than love does.

D Roses Bulls
02-05-2011, 07:58 PM
I actually agree with aldridge. inflated numbers on a bad team that has no produced w's does not equal all star IMO.

dtmagnet
02-05-2011, 07:59 PM
Aldridge is not only wrong, but he should have kept his mouth shut on this. Just shows his immaturity over not being picked.

drew_ellis_23
02-05-2011, 08:00 PM
Meh. Aldridge has a better team, better coach, and more veterans on the squad. The T-Wolves are a young team, with no identity. Kevin Love deserves to be an all-star. LA deserves to be an all-star. Someone is gonna get left out no matter how you slice it. It's unfortunate. You don't put up 30\30 games and put up the season averages he's doing if you aren't a baller. Stat padding or not, you don't put up those numbers by accident.

LA definitely flies under the radar though. Very underrated. It sucks he couldn't get on the squad, he deserves it.

Yeah he does, and they are all hurt and the Blazers are still in the hunt for the playoffs. Aldridge started off kinda slow too so his stat average numbers will be better come seasons end if he keeps the pace he has been on. LA should be in the All Star game but as a Blazer fan I think he needs the rest more and at least he wont get hurt in a meaningless non game now. NBA All Star game is a joke. Not as bad as the Pro Bowl but pretty damn close.

WSU Tony
02-05-2011, 08:01 PM
I actually agree with aldridge. inflated numbers on a bad team that has not shown an w's does not equal all star IMO.

How are loves numbers inflated? Look up usage rates and get back to us.

kingbrentg
02-05-2011, 08:01 PM
Oh well.

drew_ellis_23
02-05-2011, 08:02 PM
Aldridge is not only wrong, but he should have kept his mouth shut on this. Just shows his immaturity over not being picked.

Name a player that keeps his mouth shut. He meant no disrespect, and he stated so. Freedom of speech brother. He can voice his opinion just like everyone in here does.

kblo247
02-05-2011, 08:02 PM
If Aldridge were a wolf would his team be winning?

He would have LESS of an influence on that team than love does.

Aldridge plays on a team that is beaten and injury riddled. All their C's have basically been a revolving door because of injuries and their star SG has suffered the same fate.

You put Aldridge in Minny, and he would have more than 11 wins because he is the better defensive player of the two. He would certainly make use of having a scorer like Beasley when his other main scoring option right now is Matthews. He would make also use of Darko and Ridnour who are having their best years in their careers. Brewer can't replicate Batum though.

He may not be the 8th seed like he currently is in Portland, but the Wolves would manage more than 11 wins after damn near 50 games, and the Blazers with Love wouldn't be in the playoff themselves since he can't defend his own shadow let alone be the backbone defensively of a team without a C like Aldridge has been at times this year.

xxseven72ducexx
02-05-2011, 08:02 PM
First off, I'd like to say that LaMarcus Aldridge does deserve to be an All-Star, no doubt, after B Roy went down he put the team on his back and has kept them in the playoff race but that's just IN THE RACE not IN THE PLAYOFFS. If his argument is that stats shouldn't be why you get in then he's just making a case against himself considering his team isn't even in the top 8 right now...and come on, for real guys? I don't see how any of you clowns can say "If he is so good, then he should be able to lead his team to more then 11 wins"...are you serious? Basketball is a team sport, not a 1 on 1 street game and you need a team to win, unfortunately for Kevin Love he does not have a good team and that's why they don't have more than 11 wins. 1 player can only do so much and if averaging a double double and having the first 30/30 game since Moses Malone isn't good enough to make the All-Star team than Tim Duncan and Pau Gasol should man up and forfeit their spots considering they don't deserve to b there at all over Aldridge or Kevin Love for that matter...there is no defining definition of what an All-Star is so you can't say someone does this and someone does that so that's why he did or didn't make it, you choose an All-Star based on a players performance and how he handles himself during the season up until when they select and if you think Kevin Love doesn't deserve to be there than you clearly don't understand what an All-Star is or what it takes to be one...oh and 1 more thing, if anyone thinks Blake Griffin is undeserving as well then you should re-think watching basketball at all cuz this dude is a bonafide beast, he's single-handedly brought life and excitement to the game and a town where basketball has only cared about 1 of 2 teams that plays in the same damn building, this is just his 1st season and he's making it so I find it scary to see how much better he's gonna get cuz he's only gonna keep improving his game inside and out, man I wouldn't wanna be the guy prepping to guard him all week just cuz I'd know everything I was doing was for naught cuz Blake's goin off for atleast 20 and 10 every night he takes the floor...aright I'm spent, fcuk the haters

D Roses Bulls
02-05-2011, 08:03 PM
How are loves numbers inflated? Look up usage rates and get back to us.

you must not watch much basketball, do you? look up al jefferson 2 years ago and get back at me. cause im not going into this conversation for the 100th time again.

PlezPlayDKnicks
02-05-2011, 08:03 PM
Love deserves it equally as much as LA.. It's the hype that pushed him over the top... Not to mention Minny needs something to feel good about. This will keep the loyal fan base happy

WSU Tony
02-05-2011, 08:05 PM
Well, since your opinions of players are more valid than my statistics, you must carry more weight in this discussion.

kblo247
02-05-2011, 08:07 PM
Let me add this for all the Love stats folks.

Kevin Love is 4th on the Timberwolves in net 'on court/off court' production at +4.5 (Brewer +10.9; Tolliver +6.4; Johnson +5.6)

Meanwhile, Aldridge leads the Blazers by a significant margin at +13.7

The Blazers are a much better team with Aldridge on the floor then the Wolves are with Love on the floor.

Stats can be skewed to say what you want, but the end result of W's and L's as the leading man or men getting those stats on a team can't.

WSU Tony
02-05-2011, 08:08 PM
you must not watch much basketball, do you? look up al jefferson 2 years ago and get back at me. cause im not going into this conversation for the 100th time again.

Aren't yo the "I can't believe the bulls only have one all star" guy? Lol

When did Jefferson average 22 pts 15 rebounds and 45 percent from three?

WSU Tony
02-05-2011, 08:11 PM
Let me add this for all the Love stats folks.

Kevin Love is 4th on the Timberwolves in net 'on court/off court' production at +4.5 (Brewer +10.9; Tolliver +6.4; Johnson +5.6)

Meanwhile, Aldridge leads the Blazers by a significant margin at +13.7

The Blazers are a much better team with Aldridge on the floor then the Wolves are with Love on the floor.

Stats can be skewed to say what you want, but W's and L's as the leading man or men on a team can't.

Show me the usage rates of Aldridge vs love. Show me true. Shooting percentages and rebound rates.

D Roses Bulls
02-05-2011, 08:12 PM
Aren't yo the "I can't believe the bulls only have one all star" guy? Lol

When did Jefferson average 22 pts 15 rebounds and 45 percent from three?

second best record in the east and you dont think they deserved another all star? :rolleyes:

and Jefferson averaged 23 and 11 and now he actually plays on a pretty good team his numbers are 16 and 9. and love averages 21 a game, not 22.

magichatnumber9
02-05-2011, 08:13 PM
The woman who spilled Mcdonalds coffee on herself also had a case. Everyone yesterday said KL got snubbed hard core. Now Aldridge gets the sympathy Love had yesterday. Be consistent.

SA5195
02-05-2011, 08:13 PM
He is right, and does have a point.

KG2TB
02-05-2011, 08:14 PM
Yeah he does, and they are all hurt and the Blazers are still in the hunt for the playoffs. Aldridge started off kinda slow too so his stat average numbers will be better come seasons end if he keeps the pace he has been on. LA should be in the All Star game but as a Blazer fan I think he needs the rest more and at least he wont get hurt in a meaningless non game now. NBA All Star game is a joke. Not as bad as the Pro Bowl but pretty damn close.

Well, he still has a better supporting cast any way you look at it. Like I said, it's unfortunate either one of those guys has to be left out because they're both deserving. And you're right...the all star game is a huge joke. Yao Ming? Seriously?

I don't like how they lump the position together. Choose the best at each defined position. It's dumb.

WSU Tony
02-05-2011, 08:15 PM
Let me add this for all the Love stats folks.

Kevin Love is 4th on the Timberwolves in net 'on court/off court' production at +4.5 (Brewer +10.9; Tolliver +6.4; Johnson +5.6)

Meanwhile, Aldridge leads the Blazers by a significant margin at +13.7

The Blazers are a much better team with Aldridge on the floor then the Wolves are with Love on the floor.

Stats can be skewed to say what you want, but the end result of W's and L's as the leading man or men getting those stats on a team can't.

You are making the main criteria of an individual award on how good of a team a player has around him. Do you know how foolish that sounds? This isn't golf.

Sadds The Gr8
02-05-2011, 08:15 PM
The way I see it you can use the MVP argument to turn them down. Just because Kobe averages 35, 5, and 5 didn't offset the fact that he was on the 7th seed in the west. Just because Love averages 20 and 15 doesn't offset the fact that he is on the worst team in the conference and only won 11 games out of almost 50.

I've even heard the argument made that Melo isn't valuable because he is a scorer mainly, but at the end of the day the actual impact of his scoring and rebounding has resulted in his teams never having a losing record or missing the playoffs. The actual impact behind Love's 20 and 15 is negligible when you look at the actual win column, not win shares, but the actual win column and seeding where he hardly makes a dent in despite this league being the one where an individually dominant player can will his team into winning games on most nights in the regular season. If you laugh at a team like the Cavs and label them as having no star and just role players and garbage, then you conversely need to do the same for the Wolves when their record being led by Love isn't that much better than them at all

i would be fine if Aldridge or Love made it....they both deserve it. my only case is that i've seen Love pad stats a couple times to keep that double double streak alive.

WSU Tony
02-05-2011, 08:16 PM
second best record in the east and you dont think they deserved another all star? :rolleyes:

and Jefferson averaged 23 and 11 and now he actually plays on a pretty good team his numbers are 16 and 9. and love averages 21 a game, not 22.

This isn't a team award, it's an individual award.

With your logic you would have odom in the mix. Lol

AI4MVP
02-05-2011, 08:17 PM
lolll lets bump this thread next year when Minni is surprising the world

D Roses Bulls
02-05-2011, 08:18 PM
This isn't a team award, it's an individual award.

With your logic you would have odom in the mix. Lol

you either don't get the argument or you really don't have a argument for me so you tried to switch it up

Rafer17
02-05-2011, 08:19 PM
Love>>>>>>>>Aldridge

WSU Tony
02-05-2011, 08:20 PM
Let's not forget griffin has a team record of like 19 - 29. Oh, and he isn't putting up historic numbers! Your arguments about team records for an individual award just dont make sense

hotpotato1092
02-05-2011, 08:20 PM
Honestly I think it's a travesty that Aldridge wasn't selected, not because he should have made it over Love, but because he should have made it over Tim Duncan. I just don't see how Tim Duncan is an all star this year, I feel terrible for Aldridge that he lost his best chance at an all star game just so the league could give Duncan a lifetime achievement award, and that goes double for Monta Ellis.

Muttman73
02-05-2011, 08:21 PM
Take it easy and enjoy the time off

WSU Tony
02-05-2011, 08:22 PM
you either don't get the argument or you really don't have a argument for me so you tried to switch it up

Would you opt for odums sub par stats with a winning record or griffins better stats with a losing record?

ManOnFire
02-05-2011, 08:22 PM
Aldridge is surrounded by better teamates and a better coach. Love is doing the best he can with a young team. Im sure you can give him full credit for those 11 wins. You insert Aldridge on the wolves, and i bet you he doesnt have the success Love has had.

kblo247
02-05-2011, 08:22 PM
This isn't a team award, it's an individual award.

With your logic you would have odom in the mix. Lol

I've seen him pull that Moses Malone let me miss one, get a rebound, and then score routine as well sadly.

The point I'm making is that Love's impact is negligible when you take into account that he isn't even the guy who completely swings the net production of his team by being in and out of games. He is not a great defender. He is not a guy who commands a double team. He is not even a guy who has helped his team win close to 20 games despite his team having comparable talent to that of Aldridge and Randolph who I both feel were more deserving and actually impact their team having tangible winning results.

As injury riddled as the Blazers are, Love has comparable talent. With Mayo out of the rotation, Love has comparable talent. Ridnour is having his best year and it is comparable to the production of Miller and Conley. Beasley as the perimeter scoring threat is surely comparable to Matthews and Gay. Even the C's are comparable since Darko is having his best year, while Marc is having a down one and the Blazers can't keep one healthy.

He just doesn't get the job done as the star big in comparison to those guys and the win column shows it.

AddiX
02-05-2011, 08:25 PM
Beasley > Love

Anyone who watches Wolves games knows in the 4th quarter in crunch time Love don't touch the ball. It's all Beasley.

Love is a fraud.

Slimsim
02-05-2011, 08:26 PM
if you put love on the trail blazers with the better team and coach is Portland Better ?

WSU Tony
02-05-2011, 08:27 PM
Kilo, odom or griffin?

D Roses Bulls
02-05-2011, 08:27 PM
Would you opt for odums sub par stats with a winning record or griffins better stats with a losing record?

the clippers are still in a fight for a playoff spot and the timberwolves wont be. but either way I think Odom should of made the all star team, but doesn't mean I think over griffin. griffin deserved his spot. clippers are still in the hunt, the timberwolves aren't. griffin has made his team play better, love hasn't

kblo247
02-05-2011, 08:30 PM
Odom should have made the team over Pau and even Pau has said that Lamar has been far more consistent than anyone on the team not named Kobe on both ends for LA when talking about his last 2 months of play.

And the simple fact is Griffin is just a better player than Love as of right now on both ends and helping his team win more and be in playoff contention as a rookie, without their starting C for the majority of the year and with their starting PG taking almost a month to get into shape.

WSU Tony
02-05-2011, 08:37 PM
Odom should have made the team over Pau and even Pau has said that Lamar has been far more consistent than anyone on the team not named Kobe on both ends for LA when talking about his last 2 months of play.

And the simple fact is Griffin is just a better player than Love as of right now on both ends and helping his team win more and be in playoff contention as a rookie, without their starting C for the majority of the year and with their starting PG taking almost a month to get into shape.

So your argument holds true for one player on a losing team but not a different player on a losing team?

The clippers are 19 - 30. Lol.

First your argument was winning vs losing and now your changing your argument to helping his teammantes play better or not.

I thin you've picked your side of the argument and are now looking like a fool as you backtrack and change your stance.

Is 19 - 30 a losing record?

kblo247
02-05-2011, 08:44 PM
So your argument holds true for one player on a losing team but not a different player on a losing team?

The clippers are 19 - 30. Lol.

First your argument was winning vs losing and now your changing your argument to helping his teammantes play better or not.

I thin you've picked your side of the argument and are now looking like a fool as you backtrack and change your stance.

Is 19 - 30 a losing record?

Where did I say it wasn't a losing record? I said Griffing while losing is still helping his his team win more than Love. I said that there have only been 2 bigs selected in all star history from the worst team in the conference and that was because of a C requirement for both of them. Love's record, the history of selection, and the guys at his position should disqualify him from being recognized. In fact it did as far as the western coaches were concerned because he didn't meet their qualifications, criteria, or definition of what an all star is. Stern put him because of numbers not because of actual substance or the impact his stats actually has on his teams winning actual games, unlike the coaches out west and we all know it.

WSU Tony
02-05-2011, 08:46 PM
Where did I say it wasn't a losing record. I said Griffing while losing is still helping his his team win more than Love. I said that there have only been 2 bigs selected in all star history from the worst team in the conference and that was because of a C requirement. Love's record, the history of selection, and the guys at his position should disqualify him from being recognized. In fact it did as far as the western coaches were concerned because he didn't meet their qualifications, criteria, or definition of what an all star is.

Of those two center, did either of them put up historic numbers?

WSU Tony
02-05-2011, 08:49 PM
Anybody putting up numbers which have never been seen in the NBA before should be in the asg, no questions asked.

kblo247
02-05-2011, 08:52 PM
Decent enough production but not anything I would say is ground breaking.

The problem I have with simply saying look at his numbers no matter how eye popping is that the coaches themselves who make the actual selections and study/scout these players did not even value them over their impact in actually winning. His team was way too far for them to value them and say they were conducive to winning actual games in the league no matter how eye popping they were because they were just empty stats with no real payoff

You can say well the coaches put in Duncan, but Duncan is the defensive anchor of the best team in the league record wise. The fact is it would have been a crime to not put more than 1 Spur in, and even if look back at years past they have put bigs in the game because of their defensive importance in Ratliff, Mutumbo, and Ben Wallace off the top of my head in recent years.

WSU Tony
02-05-2011, 08:54 PM
Not ground breaking numbers? If you looked them up, you would see they are historic.

BDoggaF
02-05-2011, 08:55 PM
who really cares.. its all a popularity contest. The all-star game is a joke, not just in basketball but in every sport.

kblo247
02-05-2011, 08:55 PM
You asked me about the two centers who got in, to which I said not ground breaking

dwadefan03
02-05-2011, 08:56 PM
i feel for aldridge but this us just classless, cmon love's a good player and theres really no doubt that if he had a squad capable of getting wins he would, he is clearly doing all he can down there. Everybody keeps saying oh hes just padding his stats to make himself look good, wut do you want him to stop grabbing rebounds and stop scoring. It's one thing if you are just chucking shot and are being detrimental to the team but Love is actually efficient, if anything he is giving his team the best chance to win...theres just not enough surrounding talent.

yangx620
02-05-2011, 08:58 PM
he has solid core around him, too bad aldridge, your team are out of the playoff picture anyways

kblo247
02-05-2011, 08:59 PM
i feel for aldridge but this us just classless, cmon love's a good player and theres really no doubt that if he had a squad capable of getting wins he would, he is clearly doing all he can down there. Everybody keeps saying oh hes just padding his stats to make himself look good, wut do you want him to stop grabbing rebounds and stop scoring. It's one thing if you are just chucking shot and are being detrimental to the team but Love is actually efficient, if anything he is giving his team the best chance to win...theres just not enough surrounding talent.

The problem I have with you saying his squad isn't comparable is that they are.

As injury riddled as the Blazers are, Love has comparable talent. With Mayo out of the rotation, Love has comparable talent. Ridnour is having his best year and it is comparable to the production of Miller and Conley. Beasley as the perimeter scoring threat is surely comparable to Matthews and Gay. Even the C's are comparable since Darko is having his best year, while Marc is having a down one and the Blazers can't keep one healthy.

Love just doesn't get the job done, as the teams that both Aldridge and Randolph have aren't head and shoulders above what Love has to work with due to the injuries of the Blazers and Mayo falling out of favor in Memphis.

As for what he should do, playing some actual defense in the low post or anywhere for that matter would help the team win games

yangx620
02-05-2011, 08:59 PM
Is the asg an individual award or a team award? Individual How do we judge players? Stats.


You guys are telling me if love had a better team around him then you would be ok with him being an all star?

Some of you need to remember that no one person will make a winning NBA team

its an individual award, love earned it...if they switch place, aldridge would be garbage, he plays like beasley anyways

pastrecedes
02-05-2011, 09:01 PM
love > aldridge

yangx620
02-05-2011, 09:01 PM
The problem I have with you saying his squad isn't comparable is that they are.

As injury riddled as the Blazers are, Love has comparable talent. With Mayo out of the rotation, Love has comparable talent. Ridnour is having his best year and it is comparable to the production of Miller and Conley. Beasley as the perimeter scoring threat is surely comparable to Matthews and Gay. Even the C's are comparable since Darko is having his best year, while Marc is having a down one and the Blazers can't keep one healthy.

Love just doesn't get the job done, as the teams that both Aldridge and Randolph have aren't head and shoulders above what Love has to work with due to the injuries of the Blazers and Mayo falling out of favor in Memphis.

they are not comparable, a veteran team like blazers vs probably the youngest team in the league..come on man...is like comparing the celtics and lakers to cavs or wolves

kblo247
02-05-2011, 09:01 PM
he has solid core around him, too bad aldridge, your team are out of the playoff picture anyways

Aldridge's team is only a half game out the picture. Not like they are in 15th place in their conference and 29th place in the whole league being led by him :rolleyes:

kblo247
02-05-2011, 09:03 PM
they are not comparable, a veteran team like blazers vs probably the youngest team in the league..come on man...is like comparing the celtics and lakers to cavs or wolves

Wes Matthews, Batum, Fernandez, Mills, and Cunningham are veterans? Miller is the constant, but Camby has missed a lot of games and gotten hurt in some of the gams he has even played in this year.

You can call Darko, Ridnour, and Telfair veterans if you are going to label the main support for the Blazers as such.

Tony_Starks
02-05-2011, 09:07 PM
Lamarcus couldn't had said it better. It was all politics. At the end of the day Stern didn't feel like taking the unpopular stance of not adding him and catching all the negative backlash. The coaches, who actually award both stats AND winning, stood their ground and went the traditional route.

Now I wouldnt go so far as to call Love a stat padder, but I have watched quite a few games where his numbers where very sub par the first half and then the game gets out of reach in the second half and presto he's got 25 and 20 in a game that was never really even close. As opposed to say Blake Griffin who get his, keeps his team close, and even helps them win.

Alotta you guys just can't see past the numbers but numbers can be deceiving.....

yangx620
02-05-2011, 09:11 PM
Wes Matthews, Batum, Fernandez, Mills, and Cunningham are veterans? Miller is the constant, but Camby has missed a lot of games and gotten hurt in some of the gams he has even played in this year.

You can call Darko, Ridnour, and Telfair veterans if you are going to label the main support for the Blazers as such.

but they have alot of key veterans around them...if you play for a team that has strong leadership and young guys who are mature for their experience, it will work better for the team

the wolves have no leaders, they dont have that andre miller to bark at them or camby to show them how things are supposed to be done...

Doogolas
02-05-2011, 09:14 PM
LaMarcus Aldridge is overrated as hell.

DoubleDragon
02-05-2011, 09:14 PM
The way I see it you can use the MVP argument to turn them down. Just because Kobe averages 35, 5, and 5 didn't offset the fact that he was on the 7th seed in the west. Just because Love averages 20 and 15 doesn't offset the fact that he is on the worst team in the conference and only won 11 games out of almost 50.

I've even heard the argument made that Melo isn't valuable because he is a scorer mainly, but at the end of the day the actual impact of his scoring and rebounding has resulted in his teams never having a losing record or missing the playoffs. The actual impact behind Love's 20 and 15 is negligible when you look at the actual win column, not win shares, but the actual win column and seeding where he hardly makes a dent in despite this league being the one where an individually dominant player can will his team into winning games on most nights in the regular season. If you laugh at a team like the Cavs and label them as having no star and just role players and garbage, then you conversely need to do the same for the Wolves when their record being led by Love isn't that much better than them at all

Good points, all.
When Kobe had that crazy scoring champion/81 point/62 point season, many felt he should've been MVP, but the lakers weren't dominating...

I guess the principle is a slippery slope. Sure, everything does come down to politics, media, stats. That said, the kid (Love) shouldn't be penalized for his teams poor record because the flip side of the coin is that he's proven (as far as rebounds) that he can compete at the highest level on an "all-star" level.
But in this case, the team record is way too dismal, way too overwhelmingly lopsided to not argue the fact that Aldridge, Odom, and a few others were deserving of a nod. Love is an amazing individual player, but at the end of the day, there's always going to be some snubs simply because of the fact that there's only so many spots. It stinks.

But congrats to K. Love!
***** happens. He's talented, no argument about that. You can't please everyone, so you might as well just enjoy what the All-Star game actually is. Entertainment.

Personally speaking, I think each team should have 2 more roster spots because traditionally, there's always anywhere from 2-4 deserving players league-wide, every year that get left off.

heathonater
02-05-2011, 09:15 PM
glad aldridge gave an honest opinion about getting left out of the all star game, as opposed to offering some bs like being an all star doesnt matter. aldridge should have made it over love since aldridge is the best player on a better team. over the last month, aldridge has really stepped his game up and his 25 pts and 10rbs averages over the last month show he is becoming one of the better pfs in the league. love is a good player as well, but i wouldnt trade aldridge for love on this blazers team.

Mplsman
02-05-2011, 09:18 PM
No one has done what Kevin Love is doing in 28 years. Put this **** to rest.

Love>>Aldridge

Bucsfan
02-05-2011, 09:24 PM
i agree with him, record should be somewhat of a factor in it

but at the same time its not Loves fault he is on a crappy team

PurpleJesus
02-05-2011, 09:32 PM
i lol at people who consider love a glorified david lee, there games are not that much alike, people see big white PF, and think they must be the same.

LA is a good player, but how can you reject 20, 15 45% 3 pointers, 29.2 efficiency rating (top in the NBA), a TS% of .595 (better % from the PF position that most guards), i mean...his numbers are insane. Is it his fault that he doesnt have a team?

I find this stat most telling, the efficiency one.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Efficiency.jsp?league=00&season=22010&conf=OVERALL&position=0&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=Y&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=

look at the company he is in...lbj, durant, dwight, wade, paul, stat...he beats out everybody in the league in efficiency...and he also beats out everyone in the league in rebounding. If LA wants to pull out the wins argument, then he is also arguing against himself as there are plenty of PF/C's in the west who are on a team with a better record than Portland...

Him arguing that he should get in over love, is the same argument that Al Jeff should get in over LA.

aces01
02-05-2011, 09:33 PM
This is like the rings argument. In my opinion, you can't blame Love for playing on a bad team. People will say "he should make his team win more than they have". I don't think that's a valid argument. Just take him off Minnesota and see how they do. You can only do so much as a single player..

TheDiggler
02-05-2011, 09:34 PM
Aldridge deserves being in the ASG ! And He has Truth in His Words. No offene to k-Love or the wolves ...

Jenceman
02-05-2011, 09:39 PM
Love is putting up way better numbers than Aldridge. The fact that this is a debate is pathetic.

One player doesn't determine a teams record. You guys are ridiculous.

AddiX
02-05-2011, 09:54 PM
The object of sports is to win, not put up stats and be one of the worst teams in the league.

I think all you stat jockeys forget that.

BluejaysFan08
02-05-2011, 10:00 PM
Kevin Love is a glorified David Lee. He is padding his stats on a team where no one except him even crashes the board. If he is so good, then he should be able to lead his team to more then 11 wins.

Your an idiot :facepalm:

tbone2171
02-05-2011, 10:12 PM
x

mttwlsn16
02-05-2011, 10:12 PM
Love is a beast, and the only reason Aldridge's numbers are what they are is bc Roy, Camby, Oden, etc have all had injuries.

NYM1989
02-05-2011, 10:13 PM
Love DESERVED it more than Aldridge

mttwlsn16
02-05-2011, 10:15 PM
Love is putting up way better numbers than Aldridge. The fact that this is a debate is pathetic.

One player doesn't determine a teams record. You guys are ridiculous.

this

John Walls Era
02-05-2011, 10:19 PM
I love stats, but Aldridge does have a case.

dwadefan03
02-05-2011, 10:37 PM
Wes Matthews, Batum, Fernandez, Mills, and Cunningham are veterans? Miller is the constant, but Camby has missed a lot of games and gotten hurt in some of the gams he has even played in this year.

You can call Darko, Ridnour, and Telfair veterans if you are going to label the main support for the Blazers as such.

Seriously, the wolves arent young? Theyre 3 best players are Kevin love, Michael Beasley and wesley johnson. All of which entered the nba no more than 3 years ago

topdog
02-05-2011, 10:39 PM
Says Aldridge who announced to the world that he wanted to be an all-star this year for his dead mother...

How is that not "poitical?" It's like a sob story and I know it entered my mind thinking about him playing and how it would be cool for him but it should have been a personal goal and then he can make it public if he made it.

junion
02-05-2011, 10:41 PM
who chose kevin love as the fill-in? was it espn? what it the people who decide who's popular? was it the coach? who exactly chooses the fill-in?

it's a popularity contest - that's why yao ming being injured is still voted in as a starter.

aldridge has a case, but coming out and saying this doesn't help in any way. both these guys (also zach randolph, lamar odom, monta ellis, boozer, raymond felton etc) they all deserve to be in the all star game, but you can't have everyone in it. and some people will be left out.

it sucks for everyone left out because they're really good, but there are only so many spots on the team.

topdog
02-05-2011, 10:45 PM
Kevin Love is a glorified David Lee. He is padding his stats on a team where no one except him even crashes the board. If he is so good, then he should be able to lead his team to more then 11 wins.

I keep hearing this argument and I think it is one of the stupidest ever. It's a team game, but you all are caught up in this superstar mentality that's ruining basketball.

dwadefan03
02-05-2011, 10:45 PM
double post

dwadefan03
02-05-2011, 10:45 PM
I keep hearing this argument and I think it is one of the stupidest ever. It's a team game, but you all are caught up in this superstar mentality that's ruining basketball.

word

dwadefan03
02-05-2011, 10:47 PM
[QUOTE/]who chose kevin love as the fill-in? was it espn? what it the people who decide who's popular? was it the coach? who exactly chooses the fill-in?

it's a popularity contest - that's why yao ming being injured is still voted in as a starter.

aldridge has a case, but coming out and saying this doesn't help in any way. both these guys (also zach randolph, lamar odom, monta ellis, boozer, raymond felton etc) they all deserve to be in the all star game, but you can't have everyone in it. and some people will be left out.

it sucks for everyone left out because they're really good, but there are only so many spots on the team.[QUOTE/]



^david stern picked him, and the only reason yao got in is because the fans are idiots and should not be allowed to vote ever again. Also reserves are not picked by the fans so populaity doesnt play much of a factor

topdog
02-05-2011, 10:47 PM
who chose kevin love as the fill-in? was it espn? what it the people who decide who's popular? was it the coach? who exactly chooses the fill-in?

it's a popularity contest - that's why yao ming being injured is still voted in as a starter.

aldridge has a case, but coming out and saying this doesn't help in any way. both these guys (also zach randolph, lamar odom, monta ellis, boozer, raymond felton etc) they all deserve to be in the all star game, but you can't have everyone in it. and some people will be left out.

it sucks for everyone left out because they're really good, but there are only so many spots on the team.

Stern, the commissioner. Aldridge's whole argument is essentially about how great Roy is, not his own talent.

Wrigheyes4MVP
02-05-2011, 10:49 PM
Anyone who doesn't think Tim Duncan should be an all-star is out of their minds.

I have never like the Spurs or Tim Duncan...but lets look at the facts here.

The Spurs have the best record in the league at 42-8. Tim Duncan is the anchor of that defense and is clearly still the MVP of that team.

Think about the lack of length and interior defense the Spurs would have without Duncan. They would be a 7 or 8 seed in the West without him.

Stats do not tell the whole story, and Duncan doesn't need to put up 20 points a game to prove his worth.

Anyone that actually thinks Aldridge or Love would make a team better than Duncan does...clearly doesn't know much about the game of basketball.

Defense is half the game, and Duncan's outstanding defense and leadership must be recognized as All-Star worthy.

I just cannot see how some people can say that the MVP of a 42-8 team does not deserve to make the All-Star team.

As far as Love vs. Aldridge...I would go with Aldridge, because I personally rank wins over stats. Aldridge is a huge reason why the Blazers are still in a playoff spot. And as good as Love's stats have been, 11 wins just doesn't cut it. If Love lead his team to a respectable 20 wins, I would pick Love over Aldridge, but the fact that the Wolves are no better of a team from last year, despite Love's video game stats, really, really bothers me.

Lastly, as far as Blake Griffin is concerned, I am not sure whether or not he deserves to make the team, but he is probably a better player than Aldridge or Love when you actually look at his skillset. I know this contradicts the point I have been making this whole time, but I think he deserves to make the team because I truly believe he is better than those other guys. Plus, who here doesn't want to see Griffin catch an alley oop from CP3.

dodie53
02-05-2011, 10:50 PM
i think Love desrves to be an all star

Swashcuff
02-05-2011, 10:54 PM
The problem I have with you saying his squad isn't comparable is that they are.

As injury riddled as the Blazers are, Love has comparable talent. With Mayo out of the rotation, Love has comparable talent. Ridnour is having his best year and it is comparable to the production of Miller and Conley. Beasley as the perimeter scoring threat is surely comparable to Matthews and Gay. Even the C's are comparable since Darko is having his best year, while Marc is having a down one and the Blazers can't keep one healthy.

Love just doesn't get the job done, as the teams that both Aldridge and Randolph have aren't head and shoulders above what Love has to work with due to the injuries of the Blazers and Mayo falling out of favor in Memphis.

As for what he should do, playing some actual defense in the low post or anywhere for that matter would help the team win games

:confused::confused::confused::confused:

Swashcuff
02-05-2011, 10:54 PM
Aldridge is not only wrong, but he should have kept his mouth shut on this. Just shows his immaturity over not being picked.

This

Swashcuff
02-05-2011, 10:56 PM
The utter ignorance and disrespect to Kevin Love in this thread astounds me I mean just WOW!!!!

Kevin Love deserved it more than Lamarcus Aldridge and thus the fact he is there. CASE CLOSED!!!!!

sixer04fan
02-05-2011, 10:59 PM
Love deserves it, Aldridge deserves it. One had to be left off, tough ****. If it was the other way, we'd be talking about how it's a shame Love didn't make it with his stats.

More-Than-Most
02-05-2011, 11:00 PM
I agree with him. The fact is you aren't having an actual impact with your stats when you only help your team win 11 out of what almost 50 games so far. Historically there are only 2 bigs that have been picked from the worst team in their conference, and that was only because the teams were required to have a C. With Stern selecting a PF, Aldridge or Randolph should have been the obvious choice since their numbers actually have an actual impact on winning games, not shares, but actual games ion the win columns and making their team be better.

:clap:

Even if what he says is true he would still not be deserving to go because if your going by his point of view Steve Nash would have been the better choice. Without Nash the Suns dont have half their wins. Love Deserved it period. Using record for this type of award is moronic because no 1 player should have to carry a 5 man team.

avrpatsfan
02-05-2011, 11:12 PM
Aldridge is an idiot. Love is one of the best bigs in the league and is averaging a ridiculous 15 rebounds per game. He's shooting 40%+ from 3 and is averaging 20+ points a game. Who cares about how your team is doing. It's the ASG, not the MVP award.

Crackadalic
02-05-2011, 11:17 PM
what exactly is Love suppose to do? I guess average 10 assist also. LA should have been a allstar but dont act like he carried that team by himself that whole season.

Ive watch a lot of wolves games and that team just makes silly mistakes all the time so you cant blame Love for there record

beasted86
02-05-2011, 11:22 PM
F'ing A man... :clap:

Right on Aldridge.

beasted86
02-05-2011, 11:28 PM
So what Aldridge is saying is that he has a better team around him which means he should be voted in? How would Aldridge feel if he put up better stats than love and didn't get voted in? He is stating what supports him. If he was on the other side of the coin he would say the same thing.

Much like most of you guys vote for the president which best supports you financially, Aldridge is just saying a "logic" which supports him.

Please tell me the last time ever in the history of any league (basketball or any multi-team sport) a guy on the worst team in his conference went into an interview and claimed he should have been selected for an All-star team.

I really can't think of one time that happened. So, no, I can't buy into this idea that he's only stating the logic that fits him.

Swashcuff
02-05-2011, 11:31 PM
what exactly is Love suppose to do? I guess average 10 assist also. LA should have been a allstar but dont act like he carried that team by himself that whole season.

Ive watch a lot of wolves games and that team just makes silly mistakes all the time so you cant blame Love for there record

Great post

Wesley Matthews after his performance tonight is averaging and efficient 21 ppg with Brandon Roy out of the line-up. Nicholas Batum has stepped his game up considerably with 6 20+ point efforts averaging over 16 per game and providing solid D. In comparison LA is averaging 25 and 9 and in all honestly is the main reason why they are still in the hunt.

It's not like he has been doing this all by himself however he has had help. Much more help than Kevin Love. Not to mention a fantastically well coached team which has been a pillar of resiliency in the NBA for quite some time.

MiamiWadeCounty
02-05-2011, 11:33 PM
How can it be about stats when Tim Duncan gets in :shrug:

Swashcuff
02-05-2011, 11:33 PM
Aldridge is an idiot. Love is one of the best bigs in the league and is averaging a ridiculous 15 rebounds per game. He's shooting 40%+ from 3 and is averaging 20+ points a game. Who cares about how your team is doing. It's the ASG, not the MVP award.

:clap:

add over 85% from the line to that.

beasted86
02-05-2011, 11:39 PM
Great post

Wesley Matthews after his performance tonight is averaging and efficient 21 ppg with Brandon Roy out of the line-up. Nicholas Batum has stepped his game up considerably with 6 20+ point efforts averaging over 16 per game and providing solid D. In comparison LA is averaging 25 and 9 and in all honestly is the main reason why they are still in the hunt.

It's not like he has been doing this all by himself however he has had help. Much more help than Kevin Love. Not to mention a fantastically well coached team which has been a pillar of resiliency in the NBA for quite some time.

I think the main problem in this thread is everyone is still caught up in their head with stats and the individual comparison of Aldridge vs. Love and who they think is better of the two.

That's not what All-star selections have traditionally been about, and that's all Aldridge was trying to voice his opinion on... and in what he said, he was spot on.

But at the same time, the politics and fault lies with David Stern. The coaches never voted Love in, and I believe if it was left to them, Aldridge would be on the team instead of Love. So when LA is talking about what it means to be an all-star and how the voting has been done in the past, it's not really relevant, as this was Stern's call.

Swashcuff
02-05-2011, 11:44 PM
I think the main problem in this thread is everyone is still caught up in their head with stats and the individual comparison of Aldridge vs. Love and who they think is better of the two.

That's not what All-star selections have traditionally been about, and that's all Aldridge was trying to voice his opinion on... and in what he said, he was spot on.

But at the same time, the politics and fault lies with David Stern. The coaches never voted Love in, and I believe if it was left to them, Aldridge would be on the team instead of Love. So when LA is talking about what it means to be an all-star and how the voting has been done in the past, it's not really relevant, as this was Stern's call.

Solid post. Spot on.

kblo247
02-05-2011, 11:46 PM
I think the main problem in this thread is everyone is still caught up in their head with stats and the individual comparison of Aldridge vs. Love and who they think is better of the two.

That's not what All-star selections have traditionally been about, and that's all Aldridge was trying to voice his opinion on... and in what he said, he was spot on.

But at the same time, the politics and fault lies with David Stern. The coaches never voted Love in, and I believe if it was left to them, Aldridge would be on the team instead of Love. So when LA is talking about what it means to be an all-star and how the voting has been done in the past, it's not really relevant, as this was Stern's call.

That right there is it. The west coaches value the actual impact you make on helping your team win games and look at your win/loss record as well as your role on your team. The coaches looked at Love and didn't feel like he deserved it because his historic stats amounted to his team being in 29th place in the league. That isn't a leader or all star by how they make their selections, but for Stern it is because he just looks at the numbers.

MiamiWadeCounty
02-05-2011, 11:47 PM
For people saying Love shouldn't get in why should Blake Griffin? People argue Love gets his stats and his team sucks, well Blake's team is still better but 10 games under .500 isn't good at all. Seems like a double-standard to me. Love gets amazing stats on a crap team and he doesn't deserve it, but Blake gets lower stats on still a bad team and easily deserves it.

PS: Don't attack me as Griffin-hater because do believe both Love and Griffin deserved to be in the ASG but people who say Love shouldn't get in, shouldn't want Blake in either.

kblo247
02-05-2011, 11:54 PM
For people saying Love shouldn't get in why should Blake Griffin? People argue Love gets his stats and his team sucks, well Blake's team is still better but 10 games under .500 isn't good at all. Seems like a double-standard to me. Love gets amazing stats on a crap team and he doesn't deserve it, but Blake gets lower stats on still a bad team and easily deserves it.

PS: Don't attack me as Griffin-hater because do believe both Love and Griffin deserved to be in the ASG but people who say Love shouldn't get in, shouldn't want Blake in either.

The problem comes from the fact that Blake plays better on both ends. His team has a better record. History also shows that the only time any all star was selected from the worst team in the league was in 03 and two decades before that because they were C's and the teams had to fill a C requirement. As far as the coaches were concerned out west according to Monty Williams when they took their votes, Pau and Duncan were the C's. With that position being filled it meant they were selecting F's, which means that out west there are forwards in Aldridge and Randolph as well as the ones who got in that are all helping their teams win more games, not shares, actual games and playing better two way basketball. The fact is the coaches all placed more value on them and their contributions as opposed to Love.

* The fact the Griffin's Clippers started 1-13 and now have almost 10 wins more than Love's Wolves also factors in

topdog
02-06-2011, 12:02 AM
So theoretically, if there is a guy averaging 50pts on a no win team and there are 10 guys averaging 10pts on a 40 win team, you would have to give an all-star spot to one of the 10 instead of the 1. That's what I'm hearing.

Because apparently, averaging 50pts. isn't doing enough for your team.

beasted86
02-06-2011, 12:05 AM
So theoretically, if there is a guy averaging 50pts on a no win team and there are 10 guys averaging 10pts on a 40 win team, you would have to give an all-star spot to one of the 10 instead of the 1. That's what I'm hearing.

Because apparently, averaging 50pts. isn't doing enough for your team.

So do you really think your analogy relates to the averages of Aldridge vs. Love? 10 PPG vs. 50 PPG?

Taking the comparison to the extreme is pointless.

kblo247
02-06-2011, 12:07 AM
So theoretically, if there is a guy averaging 50pts on a no win team and there are 10 guys averaging 10pts on a 40 win team, you would have to give an all-star spot to one of the 10 instead of the 1. That's what I'm hearing.

Because apparently, averaging 50pts. isn't doing enough for your team.

You do know that Randolph and Aldridge (his main competition) are power forwards getting 20 and 10 on winning teams, right?

topdog
02-06-2011, 12:19 AM
So do you really think your analogy relates to the averages of Aldridge vs. Love? 10 PPG vs. 50 PPG?

Taking the comparison to the extreme is pointless.

I'm not arguing for Love or against Aldridge. I am arguing against the concept that winning teams should have all-stars rather than better players on bad teams getting those spots. Whether you sell your body for $1 or $100 million dollars, your still a prostitute so the exact reality of the example does not matter.

topdog
02-06-2011, 12:20 AM
Why shouldn't Wes Mathews be an all-star? His stats might not be as good but I say he's been more instrumental in his teams success.

And San Antonio is the best team so it should have 4 all-stars - let's include Parker and... ummm... Bonner!

Rafer17
02-06-2011, 12:24 AM
Kevin Love is better than Aldridge on every aspect of the game.

beasted86
02-06-2011, 12:25 AM
I'm not arguing for Love or against Aldridge. I am arguing against the concept that winning teams should have all-stars rather than better players on bad teams getting those spots. Whether you sell your body for $1 or $100 million dollars, your still a prostitute so the exact reality of the example does not matter.

You are taking this debate off topic. Aldridge is the leading scorer on a winning team.

He doesn't have 4 other players averaging basically the same as what he's averaging. He's 5PPG higher than the next guy. The 5 players averaging 10 PPG analogy doesn't apply.

Aldridge's point was that all-star selections have traditionally been about voting for the best players on winning teams.

Lim
02-06-2011, 12:28 AM
LA needs to stfu, love is clearly more deserving

topdog
02-06-2011, 12:38 AM
You are taking this debate off topic. Aldridge is the leading scorer on a winning team.

He doesn't have 4 other players averaging basically the same as what he's averaging. He's 5PPG higher than the next guy. The 5 players averaging 10 PPG analogy doesn't apply.

Aldridge's point was that all-star selections have traditionally been about voting for the best players on winning teams.

I'm not going off topic - I'm trying to get at the heart of the topic. How many wins does your team have to have for you to be an allstar? How many points do you have to score? What is this magic formula and does having some awesome sideburns count for anything?

valade16
02-06-2011, 12:41 AM
Kevin Love is better than Aldridge on every aspect of the game.

Come on, you think Love should be in the AS game, but this is hate and plain stupid.

Aldridge is way better, I mean way better than love in the post. His moves are plain better. And Aldridge is a clearly better defender.

Get real. Since Roy has gone out he's averaging 25 and 10!

Love's next two rebounders on his team are averaging 5.8 and 5.2. And milicic is one of them, and he's terrible.

Did any of you think portland would be above .500 without roy, oden, and camby?

CityofChaos
02-06-2011, 12:43 AM
If the Allstar selections were about stats then Monta Ellis would have made it...

valade16
02-06-2011, 12:47 AM
I'm not going off topic - I'm trying to get at the heart of the topic. How many wins does your team have to have for you to be an allstar? How many points do you have to score? What is this magic formula and does having some awesome sideburns count for anything?

Well I'd say the most important one is the "magic formula" they use to determine who goes to the playoffs.

But you guys dont get it, you act like its black and white, either all stats or all wins determine who goes...


It's someone who does BOTH. Aldridge's stats, while not quite as impressive as love's, is very good in it's own right; AND he is the best player on a winning team that's seen 3 integral players and 2 bench players get injured for the season, and he's the biggest reason theyre over .500.

topdog
02-06-2011, 12:48 AM
Yeah, you guys are right I mean why should the first guy since Moses Malone to have a 30-30 game be in the all-star game? Why should the the first player since Ben Wallace (who was an all-star) to average 15 RPG be in the all-star game? Why should the guy who is about to tie Stockton and Garnett for the longest double-double streak be in the all-star game?

If Love isn't that good and he has nobody around him, why can't teams stop him from rebounding? Or shooting 40+% from 3? Or dropping 20 a game?

topdog
02-06-2011, 12:54 AM
Well I'd say the most important one is the "magic formula" they use to determine who goes to the playoffs.

But you guys dont get it, you act like its black and white, either all stats or all wins determine who goes...


It's someone who does BOTH. Aldridge's stats, while not quite as impressive as love's, is very good in it's own right; AND he is the best player on a winning team that's seen 3 integral players and 2 bench players get injured for the season, and he's the biggest reason theyre over .500.

So Lamarcus is the biggest reason they're hovering around .500 and around an 8th seed, despite getting a lot of his points off lobs. Yeah, Andre Miller had nothing to do with that.

It's not about stats or wins for me - it's about the better player regardless of who is around them. Are you seriously going to tell me that Love couldn't have the same record on the Blazers or that Aldridge would lift the Wolves (the league's youngest team) to respectability?

Hawkeye15
02-06-2011, 01:08 AM
boo hoo Lamarcus. You are having a great season, Love is having a better one. Love's numbers have never been seen in the history of the NBA, on terrible, below average, ok, good, or great teams. You can tuck yourself into bed at night talking about inflated stats all you want fellas. Fact is, nobody in THE HISTORY OF THE NBA, has done what Love did the first 50 games this year. It was a complete no brainer by Stern.

Get over it.

Raph12
02-06-2011, 01:12 AM
Love is playing much better than Aldridge, but the fact tht Aldridge is leading a Roy-less team to the 8th best record in the West while Minny is dead last... Makes me agree with him.

kblo247
02-06-2011, 01:15 AM
boo hoo Lamarcus. You are having a great season, Love is having a better one. Love's numbers have never been seen in the history of the NBA, on terrible, below average, ok, good, or great teams. You can tuck yourself into bed at night talking about inflated stats all you want fellas. Fact is, nobody in THE HISTORY OF THE NBA, has done what Love did the first 50 games this year. It was a complete no brainer by Stern.

Get over it.

And yet the coaches who judge and scout the players didn't feel that same season was deserving of any praise, nor was that team worthy of any representative. Even Monty Williams of the Hornets said that Aldridge was the runner up based on the actual western coaches votes with Randolph and Nash tied behind him on CST's Hornets Tonight. That says a lot about how those history breaking "stats" are valued around the league.

beasted86
02-06-2011, 01:21 AM
And yet the coaches who judge and scout the players didn't feel that same season was deserving of any praise, nor was that team worthy of any representative. Even Monty Williams of the Hornets said that Aldridge was the runner up based on the actual western coaches votes with Randolph and Nash tied behind him on CST's Hornets Tonight. That says a lot about how those history breaking "stats" are valued around the league.

Yeah, as I said earlier, LA should be mad at Stern. The coaches followed their traditional voting pattern for the most part (Griffin).

So as he's right that that's what All-star selections and who they voted in has traditionally been about, Love wasn't selected the traditional way. He was appointed by Stern.

Hawkeye15
02-06-2011, 01:23 AM
And yet the coaches who judge and scout the players didn't feel that same season was deserving of any praise, nor was that team worthy of any representative. Even Monty Williams of the Hornets said that Aldridge was the runner up based on the actual western coaches votes with Randolph and Nash tied behind him on CST's Hornets Tonight. That says a lot about how those history breaking "stats" are valued around the league.

I really don't care man. You bring up historical data for the coach's decisions in the past, and Love has quite frankly put up a statistical season that history hasn't seen. Do you see the irony?

And I have NEVER cared what a so called NBA "expert" says. Why would you?

kblo247
02-06-2011, 01:25 AM
Yeah, as I said earlier, LA should be mad at Stern. The coaches followed their traditional voting pattern for the most part (Griffin).

So as he's right that that's what All-star selections and who they voted in has traditionally been about, Love wasn't selected the traditional way. He was appointed by Stern.

I think Griffin getting in was a given for style of play, numbers, location, and sheer hype factor as he has gotten more rookie love than any of the 96 or 03 class (deservedly so). At least they can somewhat justify it with the record and say look how he turned it around after they started 1-13, but I could have done with him getting in as well since Randolph and LA deserved to be commended under the criteria that the coaches use.

knickerbockerny
02-06-2011, 01:27 AM
The real beef should be with Tim Duncan and not with Kevin Love. Duncan based on stats and his overall value to the Spurs is not as great as Aldridge. I truly believe is Duncan does down to an injury the Spurs still roll, but if that happens to Aldridge its a wrap. Plus the Spurs already have Manu there. The all star game is not a life time achievement award.

kblo247
02-06-2011, 01:33 AM
I really don't care man. You bring up historical data for the coach's decisions in the past, and Love has quite frankly put up a statistical season that history hasn't seen. Do you see the irony?

And I have NEVER cared what a so called NBA "expert" says. Why would you?

It isn't one coach or expert. It was a collection of 14 coaches (since you can't vote for your own guys) not even having him in their next 3 choices voting wise. You should value that just as much as any formula what Hollinger for example says. These guys get paid to scout, manage, and evaluate talent yet they didn't feel he belonged in even their top 10 choices to make the team, that says something about what they think of this historic season he has.

It isn't like they were snubbing the best or second best PG in the league in Deron Williams while he was helping his team win. They are snubbing a guy who has a record that is only slightly better than the Cavs, meaning second worst in the league and worse in the conference. By definition an all star caliber player should be able to actually lead his team to winning actual games, not shares, but games since the NBA is the one league where a single player can actually will his teams to wins even without great talent around him as witnessed by many other true stars for years

Hawkeye15
02-06-2011, 01:41 AM
It isn't one coach or expert. It was a collection of 14 coaches (since you can't vote for your own guys) not even having him in their next 3 choices voting wise. You should value that just as much as any formula what Hollinger for example says. These guys get paid to scout, manage, and evaluate talent yet they didn't feel he belonged in even their top 10 choices to make the team, that says something about what they think of this historic season he has.

It isn't like they were snubbing the best or second best PG in the league in Deron Williams while he was helping his team win. They are snubbing a guy who has a record that is only slightly better than the Cavs, meaning second worst in the league and worse in the conference. By definition an all star caliber player should be able to actually lead his team to winning actual games, not shares, but games since the NBA is the one league where a single player can actually will his teams to wins even without great talent around him as witnessed by many other true stars for years

I will repeat. I don't care man. You can write a Daniel Steele novel on why a player with a statistical season that has never been done doesn't deserve to be there. I don't care.
You wanted Odom there. If the Lakers traded Odom for Love straight up, the Lakers would be better. You can attempt to debate that all you want, your expertise lies within the Lakers, and you fail to recognize (from what I can tell on here for the last 3 years), that there are a crapload of teams outside LA.

I don't care what you come up with. 21-15-44-88 is an all star. Its never been seen. Ever. So its no irony that a season like Love's breaks the rule, since the rule has never been given the numbers Love just gave it.

Pretty simple. Write away, and please understand while I respect you, I just don't care what reasoning you come up with. Those numbers can't be denied. They have never happened. And I don't care, NOR DOES STERN, what the coach's decided after looking at the standings despite their comments about how awesome Love was after he gave them 23-17 and crapped on their PF. Short term memories. Can't do anything about it dude.

kblo247
02-06-2011, 01:51 AM
I will repeat. I don't care man. You can write a Daniel Steele novel on why a player with a statistical season that has never been done doesn't deserve to be there. I don't care.
You wanted Odom there. If the Lakers traded Odom for Love straight up, the Lakers would be better. You can attempt to debate that all you want, your expertise lies within the Lakers, and you fail to recognize (from what I can tell on here for the last 3 years), that there are a crapload of teams outside LA.

I don't care what you come up with. 21-15-44-88 is an all star. Its never been seen. Ever. So its no irony that a season like Love's breaks the rule, since the rule has never been given the numbers Love just gave it.

Pretty simple. Write away, and please understand while I respect you, I just don't care what reasoning you come up with. Those numbers can't be denied. They have never happened. And I don't care, NOR DOES STERN, what the coach's decided after looking at the standings despite their comments about how awesome Love was after he gave them 23-17 and crapped on their PF. Short term memories. Can't do anything about it dude.

In what world would Love make the Lakers better than Odom? He offers nothing in comparison to Lamar for LAL, who I said should have been in over Pau and who Pau himself said deserved the nod by the way. Lamar is the only one on the team besides Kobe who can create offense off the dribble. He is the only one who sets the offense for the majority of the game. He converts at a higher clip than Love around the hoop, he is the better defender both one on one and as a help guy, and he too hits the 3 ball. He also crapped on Love in the one game in Minny where he was allowed by Jackson to defend him, all over the stat sheet. He is the only guy in the league who is the perfect utility player and can be your bench ball handler, scorer, playmaker, rebounder, and defender by himself. I would not trade Lamar Odom for Love and neither would any Laker fan because he does so much and fills so many holes for the team the way it is constructed whether starting or coming off the bench. Lamar also has the better attitude and doesn't complain about minutes like Kevin has in the past so it wouldn't even be a good chemistry move either.

I get why Stern made the selection he did since it was smart business on his part, but I also get why Aldridge has a legit gripe and likely made it public after hearing he was the runner up to be selected by the vote of the coaches.

Sadds The Gr8
02-06-2011, 01:55 AM
I don't know if the Lakers would take Love for Odom because he fits the team perfectly since he's so unorthodox and he's the ultimate role player, but if i was building a franchise, I'd take Love EASILY.

beasted86
02-06-2011, 01:57 AM
Why are you guys still debating the individual comparison of Love vs. whoever in talent?

That's not what Aldridge's comment was about at all. It was about all-star voting, what it traditionally meant to be an all-star, and how all-stars have been voted in the past. And he was right.

The only issue is Love wasn't voted in by traditional standards, he was appointed by one guy. So for that LA is wrong. The politics all lie with one guy.

Hawkeye15
02-06-2011, 01:57 AM
I don't know if the Lakers would take Love for Odom because he fits the team perfectly since he's so unorthodox and he's the ultimate role player, but if i was building a franchise, I'd take Love EASILY.

Love's real value comes from being a player who creates possessions, and doesn't need plays run for him to be a top 6 statistical player. He would make any team better. His numbers come from him, not his team's plan.

Hawkeye15
02-06-2011, 01:59 AM
Why are you guys still debating the individual comparison of Love vs. whoever in talent?

That's not what Aldridge's comment was about at all. It was about all-star voting, what it traditionally meant to be an all-star, and how all-stars have been voted in the past. And he was right.

The only issue is Love wasn't voted in by traditional standards, he was appointed by one guy. So for that LA is wrong.

and you are bringing up historical voting. And I am bringing up that Love has statistics the game has never seen. There are always situations that break the mold in real life. This is one of them. Pretty simple.

kblo247
02-06-2011, 02:02 AM
and you are bringing up historical voting. And I am bringing up that Love has statistics the game has never seen. There are always situations that break the mold in real life. This is one of them. Pretty simple.

We get that, but if you are Aldridge and you are likely told you were the runner up by the vote of the coaches you would be pissed off as well for a guying ignoring traditional voting patterns.

beasted86
02-06-2011, 02:02 AM
and you are bringing up historical voting. And I am bringing up that Love has statistics the game has never seen. There are always situations that break the mold in real life. This is one of them. Pretty simple.

Except they didn't break the mold. The coaches even said he wouldn't have gotten in based on their voting. Historical stats or not, the traditional standards of voting by the coaches has remained intact through all of this.

It IS simple, Stern redefined what it means to be an all-star, not the coaches.

beasted86
02-06-2011, 02:05 AM
Now... whether you believe Stern was right in doing what he did and Love DOES deserve an all-star selection above LA kind of deviates off-topic of Aldridge's comment, because that wasn't what it was about.

drobe86
02-06-2011, 02:06 AM
All Stars lead their teams to more than 11 victories in almost 50 games... That's flat out embarrassing. Theres nothing about Kevin Love that says all star. You can put up empty stats all day, but if you're not leading your team to victory you're a nobody...

drobe86
02-06-2011, 02:08 AM
30 out of 30 gms would take Aldridge over Love PERIOD... Aldridge is better than him in every single way offensively. True Love is the better rebounder, but not by that far off... He's the best player on a terrible team... Nuff Said

kblo247
02-06-2011, 02:10 AM
Except they didn't break the mold. The coaches even said he wouldn't have gotten in based on their voting. Historical stats or not, the traditional standards of voting by the coaches has remained intact through all of this.

It IS simple, Stern redefined what it means to be an all-star, not the coaches.

That is my point as well since Monty Williams on CST's Hornets Tonight said the coaches votes broke down to these players having multiple votes

- Aldridge
- Randolph / Nash
- Monta / Odom / Love / Parker

He got placed in the same consideration and ending up tying with Odom, Tony, and Monta. He didn't barely miss the cut like Aldridge, nor was he even in their top 3 list of snubs which is glaring on their part and goes to his point.

Stern made a decision based on his own evaluation of what he felt an all star should be. He did not make one based on what the coaches felt, so in a way the traditional selection metric did not change, but the judge and jury did.

I have a hard time believing that anyone in the shoes of Aldridge wouldn't be miffed, pissed, or frustrated with knowing the fact that they were valued by the coaches and traditional practice but got snubbed by one lone individual's judgment.

Do I believe Love shouldn't have been voted in? Yes. Do the coaches? Yes. Has Love had a remarkable season that should be remembered by himself and his fans? Yes. Does Aldridge have a right to be upset and say what he said? Yeah. Can Stern have a different opinion from me and the coaches? Yes because that is his prerogative.

Public Enemy #1
02-06-2011, 02:13 AM
Aldridge has a case. This goes against what everyone says about putting players from winning teams on the roster.

Sadds The Gr8
02-06-2011, 02:18 AM
Love's real value comes from being a player who creates possessions, and doesn't need plays run for him to be a top 6 statistical player. He would make any team better. His numbers come from him, not his team's plan.

yea i know. Love's better, but I think Odom is valuable to the Lakers because he's so unorthodox cuz he can do stuff a guard and a big man can do. he creates mismatches and it makes him valuable. I don't think the Lakers need another big man that can grab rebounds.

KingPosey
02-06-2011, 02:19 AM
I agree with him. The fact is you aren't having an actual impact with your stats when you only help your team win 11 out of what almost 50 games so far. Historically there are only 2 bigs that have been picked from the worst team in their conference, and that was only because the teams were required to have a C. With Stern selecting a PF, Aldridge or Randolph should have been the obvious choice since their numbers actually have an actual impact on winning games, not shares, but actual games ion the win columns and making their team be better.

:clap:

I completely DONT agree with him. If that was the case than a guy like Artest would have made it last year, or Christie when the Kings were good, if it was not about stats, but helping ur team win.

And by that note, no good player on a bad team would ever get the vote. For a lot of these guys they cant help that they were drafted by a bad team.

JLynn943
02-06-2011, 02:25 AM
Aldridge has a case for making it, but Love deserves it more imo. I understand the wins argument for the MVP award, but this is not the MVP award - this is the All-Star game. I don't understand why so many are denying Love being an all-star. Just because he has a terrible supporting cast doesn't mean his season should be ignored. Besides, it isn't like Portland is some great team where Aldridge is the unquestioned leader. They're barely in the playoffs right now and haven't been playing great lately. Still, both deserve it over Duncan.

ragee
02-06-2011, 02:27 AM
Love made the All-star because of stats... Some people believe Love deserves it more because he has better stats... But stats could be deceiving... No doubt Love is the better rebounder, I'll give him that... But scoring wise, LA is so much better than him... The pressure that LA is getting from defense makes it so much harder for him to score than Love... Despite that, they are averaging similar numbers and he is even shooting better than Love... Add that up with the Blazers having a way better record than the Wolves even when they are riddled with all those injuries should justify why he deserves to be in the all-star game than Love...

NYMetros
02-06-2011, 02:38 AM
The Clippers won 29 games last year. They've won 19 so far more than halfway through the year. They're on pace to equal last year's win total or get one or two more. So let's not act like Griffin's play has made THAT much of difference in winning games for the Clippers...

Geargo Wallace
02-06-2011, 02:52 AM
... Portland is only 3 games above .500
even with all the injuries, their roster is infinitely greater than the Timberwolves'. I don't know why it's considered THAT big of a snub.

NokomisLiving
02-06-2011, 03:07 AM
L.A. is awesome and does deserve to be there, but some people are coming up with crazy reasons why Love doesn't deserve it.

Ok let's be real here, the wolves are no where close to as good as the blazers period. That's just crazy talk, I watch the wolves And I can tell you outside of Love and Beas(Who shoots a high number of shots for those points btw) everyone else is pretty abismal, and that includes a TEAM with the worst defense collectively in the league.

And if he's stat padding so be it. No stat padder has done what he has in 28 years, and if he finishes the year at 20/15 while shooting over 40% from three and 80% from the stripe then he can be the best stat padder the NBA has ever seen, I'd gladdly take that.

NokomisLiving
02-06-2011, 03:14 AM
That is my point as well since Monty Williams on CST's Hornets Tonight said the coaches votes broke down to these players having multiple votes

- Aldridge
- Randolph / Nash
- Monta / Odom / Love / Parker

He got placed in the same consideration and ending up tying with Odom, Tony, and Monta. He didn't barely miss the cut like Aldridge, nor was he even in their top 3 list of snubs which is glaring on their part and goes to his point.

Stern made a decision based on his own evaluation of what he felt an all star should be. He did not make one based on what the coaches felt, so in a way the traditional selection metric did not change, but the judge and jury did.

I have a hard time believing that anyone in the shoes of Aldridge wouldn't be miffed, pissed, or frustrated with knowing the fact that they were valued by the coaches and traditional practice but got snubbed by one lone individual's judgment.

Do I believe Love shouldn't have been voted in? Yes. Do the coaches? Yes. Has Love had a remarkable season that should be remembered by himself and his fans? Yes. Does Aldridge have a right to be upset and say what he said? Yeah. Can Stern have a different opinion from me and the coaches? Yes because that is his prerogative.

I think if a player is doing great things that have never been seen, which in return is great for the game of basketball in itself that all fans of the game should be proud/interested/remembered and honored.

Iggz53
02-06-2011, 03:14 AM
I think LA deserved to make it for sure. And this coming from someone who has never been a fan of his. But he has definitely carried the Blazers this year. Unfortunately, I also think Love deserved to be in. He may be on a bad team but he has been a beast this year.

BRICKCITYPIMP12
02-06-2011, 03:22 AM
why is every one on this team ****??
yes if your good your team will most likly be doing good...but..the all star game is ment for players that are having all star type seasons...right????????
i mean it only makes sense to have a player be an all star.. itshouldent matter more if his team is better with or without him because he could be a beast and his team could be ***...he could be playing great and his team still holds him back.. u know.

MickeyMgl
02-06-2011, 03:24 AM
aldridge>love

In what sense? Height?

Geargo Wallace
02-06-2011, 03:26 AM
In what sense? Height?

Blackness maybe?

4reals
02-06-2011, 03:34 AM
LA against Klove Klove against LA
1(36 and 10) 1(30 and 19)
2(28 and 10) 2(22 and 10)
3(37 and 12) 3(19 and 10)

thechom80
02-06-2011, 03:46 AM
Let me first say Aldridge is deserving of a spot.

What I am having a hard time understanding is how the All-Star Game, which is made up of "All-Stars" has anything to do with TEAM success?? **** it. Just run the best team from each conference out there and call that an "All-Star" game. All-Star games are for the guys that are the best "individual players" maybe with the best "individual" stats. Tell me Love isn't beasting.

redsox0717
02-06-2011, 03:51 AM
I've been saying this for awhile now, but it's a sad day when stat stuffers make the team over players that actually help their team win games. If Love was as good as everyone proclaims, then the Timberwolves wouldn't be such a bad team. It's easier to play well when you're down by 20 points and against the other team's bench.

tredigs
02-06-2011, 04:08 AM
I will say that I am 100% in favor of L.A.'s comments here, and he is 100% correct in my mind. Love has been great, but not as great as what Aldridge has done for Portland in such a stiff conference. Good for him for putting it out there.

slack_justin
02-06-2011, 04:15 AM
nobody should be getting upset at love getting picked. One all star on a team doesnt mean a ton of wins. Just because aldridge is good doesnt mean hate on love. i'm not a huge fan of either but the way all-stars in general are picked is rediculous to me. Fans should not get a vote anymore. players like shaq, iverson evenm yao getting chosen based on popularity is stupid. not to mention this has an impact on if these players get into the hall of fame eventually. (i know not all of them we're voted this year but in years past). Anyway love is a solid player and deserves to be an all star.

slack_justin
02-06-2011, 04:18 AM
n 4reals your stats are saying both suck at defense and neither deserve anything.

kblo247
02-06-2011, 04:25 AM
nobody should be getting upset at love getting picked. One all star on a team doesnt mean a ton of wins. Just because aldridge is good doesnt mean hate on love. i'm not a huge fan of either but the way all-stars in general are picked is rediculous to me. Fans should not get a vote anymore. players like shaq, iverson evenm yao getting chosen based on popularity is stupid. not to mention this has an impact on if these players get into the hall of fame eventually. (i know not all of them we're voted this year but in years past). Anyway love is a solid player and deserves to be an all star.

I have a problem with anyone saying look at the fans voting Yao this year. The NBA is at fault for that selection as the only alternatives were Bynum and Haywood on the ballot. They basically gave you no real alternative, and hell I voted for Yao since I knew he wouldn't play and they would have to put in a sub for him.

4reals
02-06-2011, 05:00 AM
@ justin slack. Just putting some stats out there bro. If thats how you feel about both of them thats fine.

hyb152
02-06-2011, 05:00 AM
Kevin Love is a glorified David Lee. He is padding his stats on a team where no one except him even crashes the board. If he is so good, then he should be able to lead his team to more then 11 wins.

His team is trash though.

hyb152
02-06-2011, 05:01 AM
I have a problem with anyone saying look at the fans voting Yao this year. The NBA is at fault for that selection as the only alternatives were Bynum and Haywood on the ballot. They basically gave you no real alternative, and hell I voted for Yao since I knew he wouldn't play and they would have to put in a sub for him.

Agreed. Although Tyson Chandler would be a nice option if they wanted to keep it with traditional centers.

alencp3
02-06-2011, 05:03 AM
I'm sorry to ask but anyone knows how can a quote a post from other website?

Supa
02-06-2011, 05:13 AM
If that's true, why is Duncan picked? Maybe they should ask Aldridge to answer that ...

---

Raidaz4Life
02-06-2011, 07:43 AM
I think his beef should be with Tim Duncan and not with Kevin Love.

Swashcuff
02-06-2011, 09:53 AM
Beasted and Kblo all I want for you to is to answer 2 questions.

Has a player on a losing team (albeit the worst team in the conference) ever been voted in by the coaches to the ASG?

Of the 3 players since the ABA/NBA merger to average 20 and 15 how many of them failed to make the ASG. Hell lets go back to the beginning of the NBA/BAA. Has a player who averages 20 and 15 before the ASG ever failed to be part of the game?

You guys keep talking about traditional vote traditional vote but there is absolutely no RATIONAL behind your statement. Let's go back throughout history. Lets visit every last place team and let's see how many of them actually had all stars who were healthy and had a shot at the ASG and was "snubbed" because of the fact that they were in last place.

Dwyane Wade was healthy at times back in 07-08 but yet still even if he hadn't been voted in by the fans he would be deserving of a spot. Not just because of the lack of competitive guard talent in the East but because he DESERVED it. He had not only a better season but he was a better player than almost every guard in the NBA.

The likeliness of a team as bad as the Wolves having a player as great as Love is slim to none in all honesty because theoritcally a season such as the one he is having should equate to much more than 11 wins to this point.

However there in lies the reasoning as to why we haven't seen more players who were a part of the worst team in their conference or even the league make the all star team.

IMO bringing the whole argument about him being on the last place team and no one other than Z on a last place team not making the ASG is totally BASELESS and irrelevant. If you are going to state that case well bring to the table some examples of players who's team had the worst record and they were not considered because of that very record.

KEVIN LOVE IS AN ALL STAR BECAUSE HE IS HAVING AN ALL TIME GREAT SEASON.

PERIOD.

Swashcuff
02-06-2011, 10:23 AM
If there is a poster here who can show me a season in which the worst team in a conference has a player who is comparable to Kevin Love and that player did not make the all star team as a result of his team's record I will gladly change my opinion on this topic.

Until then the whole argument of him being on the worst team in the Conference has zero ground. There is nothing solid to back that up.

Note I am NOT being a complete douche on the comparable to Kevin Love. The player doesn't have to have a record breaking or first time in anything kind of season. Let's just use top 15 in PER, WS and WS/48 as ground work and move our way up from there.

MickeyMgl
02-07-2011, 02:49 AM
Let me first say Aldridge is deserving of a spot.

What I am having a hard time understanding is how the All-Star Game, which is made up of "All-Stars" has anything to do with TEAM success?? **** it. Just run the best team from each conference out there and call that an "All-Star" game. All-Star games are for the guys that are the best "individual players" maybe with the best "individual" stats. Tell me Love isn't beasting.

:clap:

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 03:28 AM
Fans want to bring up historical voting, while ignoring that a historical season is being played by Love. It breaks all the rules. its really that easy. Of alllllllllllllllll the bad teams in history, nobody has done this on any level team.
Love is an all star. Soak it up. If you don't like it, that's fine. The 2-4 times you watch him give your team 22-16 with 3 bombs and 6-7 from the line, but his young team just can't close, you can give your opinion. He still kicks the crap out of his counterpart 70/82 games a year. The same can be said for any all star.

Iron24th
02-07-2011, 04:05 AM
Aldridge is right,as good as Love's numbers are,he should have not be selected to the all star game because of his team's record.

End of story.

jzero
02-07-2011, 04:23 AM
Kevin Love is a glorified David Lee. He is padding his stats on a team where no one except him even crashes the board. If he is so good, then he should be able to lead his team to more then 11 wins.

if amare is so good why are the knicks barely over .500?
ouch :p

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 04:35 AM
Aldridge is right,as good as Love's numbers are,he should have not be selected to the all star game because of his team's record.

End of story.

If Aldridge switched teams, would the Wolves have any more wins? Nope.

End of story

NothingbutWill
02-07-2011, 04:35 AM
I still like the idea of having teams that are under .500 be totally ineligible for any All-Star voting.

jzero
02-07-2011, 04:44 AM
I still like the idea of having teams that are under .500 be totally ineligible for any All-Star voting.

first of all love wasn't chosen by votes... it was stern's decision
your desire to see sub .500 teams not being eligible for all star teams is ridiculous
so griffin doesn't get a shot?
nash doesn't get a shot?
yao ming?
sometimes statistics tell more than wins do
after all this is an all-star game and if you wanted the best teammates to win ud have multiple players from the top teams playing not the BEST throughout the league

Chronz
02-07-2011, 05:08 AM
There are alot of deserving individuals so its hard to say anyone was snubbed but why is la singling out love? Blake hasn't been any better than love yet he was selected before him.

Maybe he has dre trash blake and he trashes love

id love to see the voting tallies, the way its structured can lead to some unintended tallies

cambovenzi
02-07-2011, 05:12 AM
If Aldridge switched teams, would the Wolves have any more wins? Nope.

End of story
Oh good a mod stating speculation as fact and end of story.

They Possibly could have more wins.
Their defense wouldn't be as ****** and the bar isnt exactly set high.

jzero
02-07-2011, 06:04 AM
Oh good a mod stating speculation as fact and end of story.

They Possibly could have more wins.
Their defense wouldn't be as ****** and the bar isnt exactly set high.

what does aldridge bring to the table that love doesn't?
a mid range jumper? check
low post scoring? check
rebounding? you know the answer to that
what does love bring?
3 point shooting? check
passing? check

cambovenzi
02-07-2011, 06:24 AM
what does aldridge bring to the table that love doesn't?
a mid range jumper? check
low post scoring? check
rebounding? you know the answer to that
what does love bring?
3 point shooting? check
passing? check

Interior defense, athleticism, size, shot creation.

jzero
02-07-2011, 06:32 AM
Interior defense, athleticism, size, shot creation.

if your argument is that aldridge is a better scorer please dont use the excuse that love is on a horrible team
aldridge is first option scorer on the trailblazers just like love is for the timberwolves and for someone who averages 2 minutes less yet is averaging more than 5 rebounds more, i dont care how many wins the trailblazers have got, love is the better player

Swashcuff
02-07-2011, 09:31 AM
I am still waiting on an answer to my question.

Has their ever been a player on a conference's worst team who has been as great as Kevin Love in the first half of the season and not chosen to take part in the ASG by the coaches?

That's all I am asking.

Until I receive an answer to that question I am not buying into the argument that no player on the worst team in a conference (excluding Illgauskas in 2003) was selected for the ASG. If you are making that argument they BOTH go hand in hand.

stlbest5in2013
02-07-2011, 10:26 AM
So what Aldridge is saying is that he has a better team around him which means he should be voted in? How would Aldridge feel if he put up better stats than love and didn't get voted in? He is stating what supports him. If he was on the other side of the coin he would say the same thing.

Much like most of you guys vote for the president which best supports you financially, Aldridge is just saying a "logic" which supports him.



you said it so its not off topic.

you vote for the president that you think will run this country the best, not the one who helps put more money into your pocket. what and idiot

save the knicks
02-07-2011, 10:47 AM
The OP has some misplaced anger. Griffin is the one who should be removed from the ASG. This way Love and LMA get in.

Googilyotta21
02-07-2011, 10:49 AM
[/B]



you said it so its not off topic.

you vote for the president that you think will run this country the best, not the one who helps put more money into your pocket. what and idiot

What and idiot?

Iron24th
02-07-2011, 11:16 AM
If Aldridge switched teams, would the Wolves have any more wins? Nope.

End of story

First,you don't even know,then if Aldridge was on the wolves and the wolves have not any more wins,I would be all for not select Aldridge.

End of story.

Swashcuff
02-07-2011, 11:39 AM
First,you don't even know,then if Aldridge was on the wolves and the wolves have not any more wins,I would be all for not select Aldridge.

End of story.

Has a player on a last place team ever had a season which was comparable to Kevin Love's and was snubbed from the ASG as a result of his team record?

End of Story!

Swashcuff
02-07-2011, 11:40 AM
First,you don't even know,then if Aldridge was on the wolves and the wolves have not any more wins,I would be all for not select Aldridge.


That point has ZERO basis or merit because Lamarcus Aldridge is not as good as Kevin Love, so obviously he won't be seen as a scrub. The only thing LA trumps Kevin Love in is a TEAM W-L record.

kjdills13
02-07-2011, 11:58 AM
Loves numbers are historic no matter how good or how bad of a team he plays on. Historic!


When was the last time a guy had 20 pts 15 reb and shot 40 percent from three?

agreed 100% and the people who say he should win more if hes an all star.

well if thats the case then Wade shouldnt have been an all star in 07 because his team one like 17 games, and he averaged like 25 7 and like 2 steals. Mayb he was just padding his stats because he was on a bad team :rolleyes:

magichatnumber9
02-07-2011, 11:59 AM
Aldridge is just upset. He worked hard this season and is putting up career numbers. I hope he continues to play elite ball.

Swashcuff
02-07-2011, 12:01 PM
agreed 100% and the people who say he should win more if hes an all star.

well if thats the case then Wade shouldnt have been an all star in 07 because his team one like 17 games, and he averaged like 25 7 and like 2 steals. Mayb he was just padding his stats because he was on a bad team :rolleyes:

:clap::clap::clap:

Even with all the injuries and excuses they should have still been a better team since Wade was easily a top 10 player (most would argue top 5) in the league at the time.

beasted86
02-07-2011, 01:14 PM
agreed 100% and the people who say he should win more if hes an all star.

well if thats the case then Wade shouldnt have been an all star in 07 because his team one like 17 games, and he averaged like 25 7 and like 2 steals. Mayb he was just padding his stats because he was on a bad team :rolleyes:

Wade was voted in by the fans as starter.

I honestly do feel the coaches would have followed tradition had it been put in their hands, and Wade would not have been on the team.

Anyway like I've said throughout this thread, based on traditional voting, Love is not, and was not voted in. One of the coaches have come out and said LA was next in line along with Nash and Zach Randolph. So by Aldridge's comment, he is right, but that's moot because Stern appointed Love and changed the voting standards to his own away from traditional standards of positive impact for a winning team.

tical8
02-07-2011, 01:38 PM
Love deserves to make the all-star team, you guys should be complaining that LA or Z-Bo didn't make it over Tim Duncan who is averaging career lows across the board. If anything else, Tony Parker should have made the team than Duncan. This arguement has began to circle, meeting adjurned.

DoJoTheSlasher
02-07-2011, 02:05 PM
Dirk's not gonna play in the All Star Game and Aldridge will be his replacement. Calm down guys....

cambovenzi
02-07-2011, 02:16 PM
if your argument is that aldridge is a better scorer please dont use the excuse that love is on a horrible team
aldridge is first option scorer on the trailblazers just like love is for the timberwolves and for someone who averages 2 minutes less yet is averaging more than 5 rebounds more, i dont care how many wins the trailblazers have got, love is the better player

Shooting =/= creating his own shots
and
Rebounds definitely =/= good defense.
Love gets abused on defense.
The Twolves have the 26th defensive rating in the league out of 30 teams.(I know that is not just him, but its partly him and supports the case)

A simple boxscore does not dictate who the better player is.

kblo247
02-07-2011, 02:30 PM
If there is a poster here who can show me a season in which the worst team in a conference has a player who is comparable to Kevin Love and that player did not make the all star team as a result of his team's record I will gladly change my opinion on this topic.

Until then the whole argument of him being on the worst team in the Conference has zero ground. There is nothing solid to back that up.

Note I am NOT being a complete douche on the comparable to Kevin Love. The player doesn't have to have a record breaking or first time in anything kind of season. Let's just use top 15 in PER, WS and WS/48 as ground work and move our way up from there.

I'll look for the PERs later, but I can give you guys with similar win shares and losings records that didn't make it since you said the season didn't have to be historical

Love's WS is 8, his OWS is 6.4, and his DWS is 1.5 with the 15th place record in his conference

Iverson on the 97-98 Sixers posted a WS of 9, a OWS of 6.3, and a DWS of 2.8 to not make the all star team on the 14th ranked team in his conference.

Brand in 02-03 wasn't an all star with a WS of 7.6, OWS of 4.9, and DWS of 2.7 with the 13th place record in his conference.

Pau in 03 had a WS of 8.5, OWS of 6.5, DWS of 2 with the 12th place record and didn't make it

I'd have to look further and check their PERs, but that is the best I can do right now with an iphone app at school.

iliketurtles24
02-07-2011, 02:36 PM
im glad love got in but i think LA is very deserving too, get duncan out of here

NokomisLiving
02-07-2011, 03:14 PM
if your argument is that aldridge is a better scorer please dont use the excuse that love is on a horrible team
aldridge is first option scorer on the trailblazers just like love is for the timberwolves and for someone who averages 2 minutes less yet is averaging more than 5 rebounds more, i dont care how many wins the trailblazers have got, love is the better player

I just want to point out that while Love can be the 1st option that most the time Beasely is actually our first option scorer.

Lo Porto
02-07-2011, 03:20 PM
The NBA is all about politics and the media which build a player's reputation. Reputation gets All Star votes, more media coverage and even preferential treatment on the courts by the refs. It all should all be about wins and not as much about stats or what ESPN thinks of you.

limebalz05
02-07-2011, 03:55 PM
What a crybaby. Love is better than him... boohoo

Dog the bounty hunter! Awesome

I saw this and I couldn't stop laughing

AddiX
02-07-2011, 04:10 PM
I just want to point out that while Love can be the 1st option that most the time Beasely is actually our first option scorer.

Beasley is the real star on that team. No one worries about Love because in the 4th quarter he pulls his disappearing act. There's no stat stuffing in the 4th quarter.

I feel bad for Minny if they ever pay him the kind of money I expect he would demand to stay in Minny. It's possible no amount could keep him there, no one wants to be on that team, but maybe out paying everyone else can keep him around.

*Silver&Black*
02-07-2011, 04:13 PM
If the All-Star game was about stats, tell that to Monta Ellis and the reason why the entire Celtics team is in the All-Star game.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 04:16 PM
I'll look for the PERs later, but I can give you guys with similar win shares and losings records that didn't make it since you said the season didn't have to be historical

Love's WS is 8, his OWS is 6.4, and his DWS is 1.5 with the 15th place record in his conference

Iverson on the 97-98 Sixers posted a WS of 9, a OWS of 6.3, and a DWS of 2.8 to not make the all star team on the 14th ranked team in his conference.

Brand in 02-03 wasn't an all star with a WS of 7.6, OWS of 4.9, and DWS of 2.7 with the 13th place record in his conference.

Pau in 03 had a WS of 8.5, OWS of 6.5, DWS of 2 with the 12th place record and didn't make it

I'd have to look further and check their PERs, but that is the best I can do right now with an iphone app at school.

see if you can find someone with the following excluded from the all star game:

#6 in PER- 24.47
#1 in rebounding- 15.6
#1 in rebound rate- 23.5 (tied with Camby now)
#1 in double doubles- 45
#18 in free throw percentage- 87%
#12 in three point percentage- 43.3%
#16 in scoring- 21.6
#5 in win shares (8-this is more than 18 other all stars)

30-30 game
(4) 20-20 games in one month
1st player to ever have a 40+/15+ and hit 5 three's in a game


See if you can find a player with all that left off the all star game. Good luck.
This is why its a historic season. Nobody has ever put up the combination of stats Love has, inside and out. Nobody. Not in the history of terrible, ok, average, good, and great teams.

Nobody. Ever. Rules are made to be broken when ridiculous exceptions come along. Losing teams don't get all stars historically. Well, historically, nobody has ever done what Love has. Therefore, the exception that broke the rule is Love. Stern fixed the error immediately, like he should have.

Swashcuff
02-07-2011, 04:19 PM
Iverson on the 97-98 Sixers posted a WS of 9, a OWS of 6.3, and a DWS of 2.8 to not make the all star team on the 14th ranked team in his conference.

You are making me do something I almost never do, which is argue against Allen Iverson. In that season he was 22nd in PER 23rd in WS and not even in the top 50 in WS/48. He also had a bad first half of the season. Didn't do a very good job at all. However in the 2nd half he upped the ante and it reflected in our 2nd half record.


Brand in 02-03 wasn't an all star with a WS of 7.6, OWS of 4.9, and DWS of 2.7 with the 13th place record in his conference.

Elton Brand was 12th in PER for that season but was 45th in WS/48 and 42nd in win shares this is however are a result of him missing more than a month of basketball in the second half of the season. Had he not been injured he may have gotten into the top 35 or so.


Pau in 03 had a WS of 8.5, OWS of 6.5, DWS of 2 with the 12th place record and didn't make it

Pau was 23rd in PER, 32nd in WS and 57th in WS/48

Now all the numbers I got were for their overall season but from reading your analysis you also did the same. Take their numbers for the entire season.

Being the Allen Iverson lover that I am I could ASSURE you that in the first half of the 97-98 season he was no where near the top 15 in PER, WS or WS/48. He was able to get all those numbers up because of his stellar 2nd half play that season.

I don't know how to find rankings for the first half of a season in those contexts so if someone can it would really be appreciated.

I'd just like to say in comparison to all those players Kevin Love is 6th in PER, 5th in WS and 12th in WS/48.

I can also assure you that neither Pau nor Brand had a great first halves so in all likeliness they would not have been at the top of the league in any of those rankings.

I think you may need to dig a bit more bro.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 04:20 PM
Beasley is the real star on that team. No one worries about Love because in the 4th quarter he pulls his disappearing act. There's no stat stuffing in the 4th quarter.

I feel bad for Minny if they ever pay him the kind of money I expect he would demand to stay in Minny. It's possible no amount could keep him there, no one wants to be on that team, but maybe out paying everyone else can keep him around.

you honestly don't watch the Wolves, I can tell from your countless posts blowing up Beasley. Um, his simple rating is -0.7. The Wolves, unless he is on fire, are better off with him not on the floor in many cases. He is our Monta Ellis.

You just love to think players will run from small markets the first chance they get, don't you? Does everyone want to be on the Knicks? Should the Wolves just be terminated so their players can go elsewhere? Will that make you happy?

You don't see me commenting on the Knicks and the exact way they run their offense, because I don't watch more than 10 of their games a year. You have no clue how the Wolves use their players. None. I can tell in your posts. You ride Beasley harder than homer Wolves fans. He aint that good. Wolves are 2-2 in games without Beasley, including their best team effort of the season in a 30 point blowout. Just saying.

http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT13.HTM

http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT10.HTM

Love dominates two crunch time categories. He doesn't disappear in the 4th quarter. I have no clue where you get that from. Hell, one of the two times you watched him, he was burying your Knicks late.

Sandman
02-07-2011, 04:20 PM
I agree that stats should be given less weight. I don't think record should be considered directly, but team input is a factor.

However, in this case, I don't think anything went wrong. Zach Randolph is on the Grizzlies who are in the 9th spot out west (basketball purgatory, the last spot in the lottery). Aldridge's Blazers are 8th. Big deals. Kevin Love is having an amazing season, albeit for the last place T-Wolves.

I think Aldridge is way off base with his comment about "how it is now" and "how it used to be" too. This is a year where Tim Duncan's numbers obviously didn't warrant him a selection, but everybody knows he is the best player on a 42-8 team. Danny Granger got snubbed hardcore out east in favor of Ray Allen and Paul Pierce for the same reasons. Garnett's numbers are pretty pedestrian too.

thekmp211
02-07-2011, 04:23 PM
Beasley is the real star on that team. No one worries about Love because in the 4th quarter he pulls his disappearing act. There's no stat stuffing in the 4th quarter.

I feel bad for Minny if they ever pay him the kind of money I expect he would demand to stay in Minny. It's possible no amount could keep him there, no one wants to be on that team, but maybe out paying everyone else can keep him around.

go-to scorer? yes. star? no. love is still the best player on the team.

Swashcuff
02-07-2011, 04:23 PM
see if you can find someone with the following excluded from the all star game:

#6 in PER- 24.47
#1 in rebounding- 15.6
#1 in rebound rate- 23.5 (tied with Camby now)
#1 in double doubles- 45
#18 in free throw percentage- 87%
#12 in three point percentage- 43.3%
#16 in scoring- 21.6
#5 in win shares (8-this is more than 18 other all stars)

30-30 game
(4) 20-20 games in one month
1st player to ever have a 40+/15+ and hit 5 three's in a game


See if you can find a player with all that left off the all star game. Good luck.
This is why its a historic season. Nobody has ever put up the combination of stats Love has, inside and out. Nobody. Not in the history of terrible, ok, average, good, and great teams.

Nobody. Ever. Rules are made to be broken when ridiculous exceptions come along. Losing teams don't get all stars historically. Well, historically, nobody has ever done what Love has. Therefore, the exception that broke the rule is Love. Stern fixed the error immediately, like he should have.

Hey bro let's at least give them a shot.

Those are way too many categories. Rankings and accomplishments. That is virtually impossible. Let's at least make it debatable even if it isn't. He'd have to create a player in NBA 2K to be able to achieve such rankings. :p

Let's just forget the rebounding, shooting and numbers of that nature. We already know no one all time is comparable to him in that regard.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 04:32 PM
Hey bro let's at least give them a shot.

Those are way too many categories. Rankings and accomplishments. That is virtually impossible. Let's at least make it debatable even if it isn't. He'd have to create a player in NBA 2K to be able to achieve such rankings. :p

Let's just forget the rebounding, shooting and numbers of that nature. We already know no one all time is comparable to him in that regard.

well, excuses can continue to be made, but sometimes, people don't get how incredible Love's season has been until you throw it all in their face. Nobody has ever done this. He has Moses Malone stats down low, and Larry Bird outside. Its too bad his team is so young, and throws away game after game, so he gets to suffer the consequences. Normally (like the Big Al days), I am fine with a member of a big time losing team not making it despite nice numbers. But these aren't just nice numbers. They are slap you in the face numbers.

Swashcuff
02-07-2011, 04:37 PM
Beasley is the real star on that team. No one worries about Love because in the 4th quarter he pulls his disappearing act. There's no stat stuffing in the 4th quarter.

I feel bad for Minny if they ever pay him the kind of money I expect he would demand to stay in Minny. It's possible no amount could keep him there, no one wants to be on that team, but maybe out paying everyone else can keep him around.

Do you watch Minnesota basketball?

Disappearing act you say?

Jewelz0376
02-07-2011, 05:02 PM
Lol people are still on here arguing about this?? lol..its always the same two people defending love in every thread lol

I feel what LA is saying.....and I agree with him, but it is what it is...

AddiX
02-07-2011, 05:31 PM
you honestly don't watch the Wolves, I can tell from your countless posts blowing up Beasley. Um, his simple rating is -0.7. The Wolves, unless he is on fire, are better off with him not on the floor in many cases. He is our Monta Ellis.

You just love to think players will run from small markets the first chance they get, don't you? Does everyone want to be on the Knicks? Should the Wolves just be terminated so their players can go elsewhere? Will that make you happy?

You don't see me commenting on the Knicks and the exact way they run their offense, because I don't watch more than 10 of their games a year. You have no clue how the Wolves use their players. None. I can tell in your posts. You ride Beasley harder than homer Wolves fans. He aint that good. Wolves are 2-2 in games without Beasley, including their best team effort of the season in a 30 point blowout. Just saying.

http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT13.HTM

http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT10.HTM

Love dominates two crunch time categories. He doesn't disappear in the 4th quarter. I have no clue where you get that from. Hell, one of the two times you watched him, he was burying your Knicks late.

Love ain't clutch, that's why you have 8 wins. That's why your always in close games and lose them. That's why players eyes light up when they see Love guarding them.

Don't sit here and tell me about some stats that show he grabs a few boards and gets a few scrap buckets and now hes a 4th quarter go to guy.

When the game is close in the last few minutes, that ball is given to Beasley. And that right there, makes Beasley the man. He can create and drop buckets on anyone at any time. Love doesn't have that ability. And I do watch the games, don't sit here and tell me I don't because you disagree with me.

And yes, players will run away first chance from Minny. I don't like or dislike it, but I accept it. Truth is, league contraction is a real option. A Bagel and Cream cheese cost more in NY than a ticket to a Wolves game. If your a bad team with a weak fan base, and a dieing franchise, how do you expect any player to want to be there?

jzero
02-07-2011, 05:45 PM
Love ain't clutch, that's why you have 8 wins. That's why your always in close games and lose them. That's why players eyes light up when they see Love guarding them.

Don't sit here and tell me about some stats that show he grabs a few boards and gets a few scrap buckets and now hes a 4th quarter go to guy.

When the game is close in the last few minutes, that ball is given to Beasley. And that right there, makes Beasley the man. He can create and drop buckets on anyone at any time. Love doesn't have that ability. And I do watch the games, don't sit here and tell me I don't because you disagree with me.

And yes, players will run away first chance from Minny. I don't like or dislike it, but I accept it. Truth is, league contraction is a real option. A Bagel and Cream cheese cost more in NY than a ticket to a Wolves game. If your a bad team with a weak fan base, and a dieing franchise, how do you expect any player to want to be there?

why dont you worry about "analyzing" the 26-24 knicks instead?

AddiX
02-07-2011, 05:53 PM
why dont you worry about "analyzing" the 26-24 knicks instead?

Because this isn't a Knick thread.

yangx620
02-07-2011, 05:57 PM
Love ain't clutch, that's why you have 8 wins. That's why your always in close games and lose them. That's why players eyes light up when they see Love guarding them.

Don't sit here and tell me about some stats that show he grabs a few boards and gets a few scrap buckets and now hes a 4th quarter go to guy.

When the game is close in the last few minutes, that ball is given to Beasley. And that right there, makes Beasley the man. He can create and drop buckets on anyone at any time. Love doesn't have that ability. And I do watch the games, don't sit here and tell me I don't because you disagree with me.

And yes, players will run away first chance from Minny. I don't like or dislike it, but I accept it. Truth is, league contraction is a real option. A Bagel and Cream cheese cost more in NY than a ticket to a Wolves game. If your a bad team with a weak fan base, and a dieing franchise, how do you expect any player to want to be there?




beasley is a turd bone head, the guy has talents to score, but is a straight up bone head who will never amount to anything if he doesn't figure it out...love does everything for the team, and i can see him get better if he plays smarter somwetimes just like the rest of the wolves...but right now, they have a talented team whop has not figure it out....fire kurt rambis and get a guy from the suns or knicks to play a fast paced style...it would make flynn, love, beasley and wes johnson...but i think kahn is from the spurs tree

Iron24th
02-07-2011, 06:18 PM
That point has ZERO basis or merit because Lamarcus Aldridge is not as good as Kevin Love, so obviously he won't be seen as a scrub. The only thing LA trumps Kevin Love in is a TEAM W-L record.

That's it,W-L record is what ASG is all about.

End of story.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 08:20 PM
Love ain't clutch, that's why you have 8 wins. That's why your always in close games and lose them. That's why players eyes light up when they see Love guarding them.

Don't sit here and tell me about some stats that show he grabs a few boards and gets a few scrap buckets and now hes a 4th quarter go to guy.

When the game is close in the last few minutes, that ball is given to Beasley. And that right there, makes Beasley the man. He can create and drop buckets on anyone at any time. Love doesn't have that ability. And I do watch the games, don't sit here and tell me I don't because you disagree with me.

And yes, players will run away first chance from Minny. I don't like or dislike it, but I accept it. Truth is, league contraction is a real option. A Bagel and Cream cheese cost more in NY than a ticket to a Wolves game. If your a bad team with a weak fan base, and a dieing franchise, how do you expect any player to want to be there?

I am telling you that you don't watch the Wolves play. From your description of the Wolves, I am correct in that assumption.
Giving the ball to your best creator in last minute situations doesn't make him the best player. Not sure where you even get that from. Your best player has 48 minutes of the best play. That is simple, no?
Love has more win shares than Amare, Wade, Kobe, and about 18 all stars all in all. He contributes to wins. The rest of his roster doesn't. That is simple, no?

Your assumption that players run from Minnesota is based on..... what exactly?

Everything costs more in NY. How is that relevant to anything in a sports conversation. Your city is so overpriced and out of touch with pricing? Is that the NBA's fault?

You don't think Love should be an all star. I could care less. You talk in circles about the Wolves, with no factual information in the slightest.

Stick to the Knicks homie

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 08:23 PM
Because this isn't a Knick thread.

correct. But its a thread you are having a rough time analyzing. You underrate Love big time. no big deal. People have been doing it forever. 21/16/44/87 never happen. Get over it. he is an all star.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 08:25 PM
That's it,W-L record is what ASG is all about.

End of story.

hahahaha, ok. No, its actually about watching the best 24 players in the game (with a hit or miss here and there). Love is playing like a top 24 player. Statistically he is playing like a top 5 player, but there is the reason stats don't tell us everything.

How many times have you watched Love this season, outside when they played the Lakers?

Mplsman
02-07-2011, 08:59 PM
Everything Hawkeye just said.

^this.

AddiX
02-07-2011, 09:21 PM
I am telling you that you don't watch the Wolves play. From your description of the Wolves, I am correct in that assumption.
Giving the ball to your best creator in last minute situations doesn't make him the best player. Not sure where you even get that from. Your best player has 48 minutes of the best play. That is simple, no?
Love has more win shares than Amare, Wade, Kobe, and about 18 all stars all in all. He contributes to wins. The rest of his roster doesn't. That is simple, no?

Your assumption that players run from Minnesota is based on..... what exactly?

Everything costs more in NY. How is that relevant to anything in a sports conversation. Your city is so overpriced and out of touch with pricing? Is that the NBA's fault?

You don't think Love should be an all star. I could care less. You talk in circles about the Wolves, with no factual information in the slightest.

Stick to the Knicks homie

Here's a fact, you play to win the game. I get it, your team isn't in the playoff race, franchise is almost out the NBA, Rubio won't play for you, Flynn can't run an offense for his life, so your whole season is based on Kevin Love. That's cool, but understand:

You have 8 wins.

Whats the difference in your team without Kevin Love, maybe 2-3 wins?

Sorry All Stars help there team win enough games not to be among the worst in the NBA.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 10:54 PM
Here's a fact, you play to win the game. I get it, your team isn't in the playoff race, franchise is almost out the NBA, Rubio won't play for you, Flynn can't run an offense for his life, so your whole season is based on Kevin Love. That's cool, but understand:

You have 8 wins.

Whats the difference in your team without Kevin Love, maybe 2-3 wins?

Sorry All Stars help there team win enough games not to be among the worst in the NBA.

well, we have 11 wins, but I don't want to nitpick.

Of course you play to win. Should we discredit Durant for only giving his team 20 wins? Or Wade for being the leader of a 17 win team?

Rubio won't play for us? Huh. I think plenty of evidence suggesting otherwise has been shown.

If players want to play for winners, then why would they want to play for the Knicks? Oh, thats right, great fan base....

drobe86
02-07-2011, 11:16 PM
Here's a fact, you play to win the game. I get it, your team isn't in the playoff race, franchise is almost out the NBA, Rubio won't play for you, Flynn can't run an offense for his life, so your whole season is based on Kevin Love. That's cool, but understand:

You have 8 wins.

Whats the difference in your team without Kevin Love, maybe 2-3 wins?

Sorry All Stars help there team win enough games not to be among the worst in the NBA.


+1 here... The Wolves wouldn't be off the same pace if they didn't have Kevin Love. I think Love has had an exceptional season, but I kinda believe he is playing over his head. He hasn't shown any flashes like this since he's been in the NBA until this year. Hawkeye is a smart guy and knows the wolves in and out, and he talks alot about advanced statistics. But all that's in depth and nice to know, but its all about the simple things. And the fact is Love doesn't lead or will his team to victories. There's no way a legit all star player should lead his team to 8 wins out of almost 50 in a season. That's embarrassing, and theres not another NBA All Star that can be said about.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 11:20 PM
+1 here... The Wolves wouldn't be off the same pace if they didn't have Kevin Love. I think Love has had an exceptional season, but I kinda believe he is playing over his head. He hasn't shown any flashes like this since he's been in the NBA until this year. Hawkeye is a smart guy and knows the wolves in and out, and he talks alot about advanced statistics. But all that's in depth and nice to know, but its all about the simple things. And the fact is Love doesn't lead or will his team to victories. There's no way a legit all star player should lead his team to 8 wins out of almost 50 in a season. That's embarrassing, and theres not another NBA All Star that can be said about.

well, they are getting win 12 tonight in New Orleans btw, with Love having a ho-hum game so far with 25-14-3.
Can't win games by yourself. When you are the leader of the youngest team in the NBA, struggles happen.
When you put up 21/16/44/87, which has never been done in the history of basketball, you create an exception to the rule. Its pretty simple.

Hustlenomics
02-07-2011, 11:20 PM
Love ain't clutch, that's why you have 8 wins. That's why your always in close games and lose them. That's why players eyes light up when they see Love guarding them.

Don't sit here and tell me about some stats that show he grabs a few boards and gets a few scrap buckets and now hes a 4th quarter go to guy.

When the game is close in the last few minutes, that ball is given to Beasley. And that right there, makes Beasley the man. He can create and drop buckets on anyone at any time. Love doesn't have that ability. And I do watch the games, don't sit here and tell me I don't because you disagree with me.

And yes, players will run away first chance from Minny. I don't like or dislike it, but I accept it. Truth is, league contraction is a real option. A Bagel and Cream cheese cost more in NY than a ticket to a Wolves game. If your a bad team with a weak fan base, and a dieing franchise, how do you expect any player to want to be there?

true

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 11:23 PM
true

says the Rondo fan. Is there any way on earth, that the Wolves would have more wins if you nixed Love, and gave them Rondo?

Absolutely not.

Hustlenomics
02-07-2011, 11:23 PM
says the Rondo fan. Is there any way on earth, that the Wolves would have more wins if you nixed Love, and gave them Rondo?

Absolutely not.

Rondo has a championship and can lead his team to the playoffs so don't talk

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 11:25 PM
Rondo has a championship and can lead his team to the playoffs so don't talk

hahahahaha. His roster support sucked, didn't it? Rondo is THE REASON the C's won that title........

Teams win games. Not individual players. At some point, to gain any sense of respectability, you should provide some basketball insight.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 11:26 PM
another whatever game from Love, in a win at New Orleans. 27-17-3. He sucks, I agree. What a waste of a player.

Hustlenomics
02-07-2011, 11:27 PM
hahahahaha. His roster support sucked, didn't it? Rondo is THE REASON the C's won that title........

Teams win games. Not individual players. At some point, to gain any sense of respectability, you should provide some basketball insight.

Rondo and the Celtics are sitting comfortable right now while the Wolves have 12 wins so please keep hating

mike_noodles
02-07-2011, 11:37 PM
First, the double-double streak is killer.
Second, the thirty-thirty game.
Third, Steve Nash would've been the next choice.

Sorry Aldridge fans.

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 11:45 PM
Rondo and the Celtics are sitting comfortable right now while the Wolves have 12 wins so please keep hating

how am I hating? The Celtics are totally stacked. I replied to your post, put Rondo on the Wolves, and take away Love. They are still a bottom team this season.

You read waaaaaaaay too deep into things bro.

topdog
02-07-2011, 11:48 PM
Here's a fact, you play to win the game. I get it, your team isn't in the playoff race, franchise is almost out the NBA, Rubio won't play for you, Flynn can't run an offense for his life, so your whole season is based on Kevin Love. That's cool, but understand:

You have 8 wins.

Whats the difference in your team without Kevin Love, maybe 2-3 wins?

Sorry All Stars help there team win enough games not to be among the worst in the NBA.

Just shows you have absolutely no clue about anything Timberwolves or perhaps even basketball. I think that New York urine smell has finally gotten to your brain.

Glenn Taylor, the owner, almost bought the Vikings a few years back to make sure they stayed in Minnesota and continually opens up his wallet because he loves his team. Not to mention he is the head of the board of governors so contraction would not get past that whatever notions you may have.

You can speculate all you want, but what isn't speculation is that Love is having a historic season and is one of the best individual performers in the West. You can debate all you want about what being an all-star is really about but I'll take you it's not the Timberwolves name that's gonna be on the back of his jersey - it's "Love."

Hustlenomics
02-07-2011, 11:56 PM
how am I hating? The Celtics are totally stacked. I replied to your post, put Rondo on the Wolves, and take away Love. They are still a bottom team this season.

You read waaaaaaaay too deep into things bro.

i agreed with addix post and you attacked rondo (which you do every chance you get) like he had anything to do with the thread..and there have been other posters that noticed you hate on the Celtics but hypothetical situations are lame Rondo isn't on the Wolves he's on the Celtics and right now they're at the top of their conference not the bottom

thesparky33
02-08-2011, 12:02 AM
Did I read a Laker fan say that they'd decline a straight up Love for Odom trade?

iamsteel
02-08-2011, 12:06 AM
i agreed with addix post and you attacked rondo (which you do every chance you get) like he had anything to do with the thread..and there have been other posters that noticed you hate on the Celtics but hypothetical situations are lame Rondo isn't on the Wolves he's on the Celtics and right now they're at the top of their conference not the bottom

I love Rondo but c'mon. With that lineup, even Flynn would average 10 ast/gm.

Hustlenomics
02-08-2011, 12:07 AM
^ Carlos Arroyo isn't averaging 10 assists per game with a stacked team

Raph12
02-08-2011, 12:11 AM
He played 45mins to get those stats, but it's impressive none-the-less... Ws are what counts most IMO, so that hurts Love, but his play has been special so far this season, he has MIP almost locked up.