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Bornknick73
02-05-2011, 01:06 PM
Players these days are all buddies off the court. Does this weaken competitive desires? Players in the past created real rivalries, Bird hated Magic for a long time and you could tell during the games. He did whatever he could to beat him, he felt sick to his stomach when he didnt the same for Magic. They both would leave their blood on the court in the hopes of defeating the other. Isiah hated Jordan and it made for some awesome games between those 2 teams. Jordan would bow to no man on the court and every loss was a personal vendetta against that player and that team, and he would exact his revenge against those teams for the length of his career.

Players of the past had such a different competitive attitude. Guys like Barkley, Malone, Reggie. They had genuine dislike for a lot of players and alot of players disliked them and they went to great lengths not to be beaten by those players. It kinda drove them as far as it had to for them to pull out the win. Extra motivation which in turn gave more intensity and competitive fire to the games. Hakeem was sure as hell not gonna lose to Ewing in 94. Those guys had a history going back to college.

Mourning and Larry Johnson. How hard did those guys play to beat each other? I feel the Alpha Dog was much more prevalent in years past. Guys truely wanted to beat one another, even if it meant alienating the opposing players. They didnt care. They just wanted to be the best and beat the best.

In todays game the players are so much more friendly now. After a loss guys are hugging it out and what not. In the off season they are seen together hanging out, clubbing. Im not suggesting being a sore loser but i dont feel players take it as hard because the focus is more on themselves and not on beating the other guy.

I think most modern players walk away from a loss and consider how that loss is gonna affect them (Mins/Stats/Prestige/Endorsements). I dont think many of them are walking away pissed because they lost to a certain team or player. Clearly this is not directed at all the players. Kobe seems to be one of the last of this breed. Someone who takes losses to particular teams and players personally.

Does it make losses easier to swallow because the star player on the other team is your boy? Would the NBA be better if today's Stars still had the attitude of NBAs past? Where Lebron hated Kobe and he would die on the court just to beat him, where the players really wanted to be the man on thier teams just to prove they could be the MAN in the League?

The Buddy System seems to be leading us down the road to Buddy Teams which was the inevitable next progression but.... Is the Buddy System making for a better NBA product? Is the Homeboy Hypothsis robbing us of real down and dirty rivalries?

papisupremo
02-05-2011, 01:17 PM
true story man!! i can't really blame the celtics for this one since that was pretty much mchale hookin up his butt buddy ainge, but this whole thing about lets get together and win championships is kinda lame. the heat are an abomination. i remember in the mid-90's when we (knicks) were probably the most hated team in the league with rivalries with zo and the heat, reggie and the pacers, michael and the bulls, and even a bit with the hornets. and i agree that this lack of competitiveness is deteriorating the game. remember when the all-star game was actually fun to watch??

J-Relo
02-05-2011, 01:21 PM
toys spoil kids
money spoil grown-ups

while some of the players are still very young and getting so much money, they are getting spoiled by the all the toys they can buy

Dade County
02-05-2011, 02:23 PM
I think the lack of overall talent is hurting the NBA...

These guys want to win, but some of them see how the NBA really works; so they make sure they get their money, and their families are token care of.

Ummm..... How many teams have won the NBA finals over the past 25yrs.

These players get it, they have no time for hate.

The NBA powers to be need to change, before this game that we all like can actually live up to it's potential.

NYK|NYY
02-05-2011, 02:25 PM
Absolutely. I don't even see how you can argue it hasn't. We want our teams to hate each other, its good for the NBA and us. Think how much more crowds get into games when teams hate each other.

thekmp211
02-05-2011, 02:28 PM
no. its sports, im glad athletes have the presence of mind to not treat a kids game like it will make or break the world.

12loser12
02-05-2011, 02:45 PM
Its just a sign of our changing culture. In the past you were the best because you could beat everyone. Nowadays, you are the best if you make the most money. Most people don't care about the game of basketball as much as they care about the money they can make from it

Hiphopopotamus
02-05-2011, 04:16 PM
For sure it does. I don't want the best players trying to team up. I want to see LBJ and Wade dueling in the 4th. I want to see battles not cake walks.

SteveNash
02-05-2011, 04:45 PM
No.

I don't see anyone questioning Russell's competitiveness because he was friends with Wilt.

Raps08-09 Champ
02-05-2011, 04:48 PM
Meh.

I'm the most competitive against my friends.

I'm sure it's the same for the NBA players.

knicks4life33
02-05-2011, 04:49 PM
the 80, 90's and early 2000's was the best. the nba really changed and it sucks. I think the only team doesnt really go bye buddie system is the celtics but what it appears. the physical days of the nba is over and thats wut made it great and all these ticky tak fouls are a joke.

Sixerlover
02-05-2011, 05:08 PM
Some players still hate each other, which makes for very good games. For example the Celtics and the NBA, and the Heat and the rest of the league. And I know Amare doesn't like the Sixers at all after the first two games of the season between the two teams.

But as a whole, yes the buddy-buddy thing is making the league a little softer.

C_Mund
02-05-2011, 05:09 PM
no. its sports, im glad athletes have the presence of mind to not treat a kids game like it will make or break the world.

...but isn't it also a multi-billion dollar enterprise? These guys are well paid because they're the best in the world at what they do, much like CEO's of massive corporations. But if those CEO's stopped trying to get their company to the top because their buddy owned their competitor, how fast would their stock drop? NBA basketball players are paid huge sums of money because fans pay to watch their team win, and when the players are no longer accountable to the fans I don't see any way the league could prosper.
....except in Miami, Boston, New York and LA.

NYK|NYY
02-05-2011, 05:09 PM
Meh.

I'm the most competitive against my friends.

I'm sure it's the same for the NBA players.

More than when you're playing someone you dislike?

Raps08-09 Champ
02-05-2011, 05:11 PM
More than when you're playing someone you dislike?

I don't participate with people I don't like.


But do we really wanna see people hate one another for our own entertainment.

goose15
02-05-2011, 05:13 PM
I'll be against stars teaming up..... after the Knicks get Melo :D

MrfadeawayJB
02-05-2011, 05:27 PM
Very Good post.

I would like to see the players display good sportsmanship, but at the same time have healthy competition. You dont have to hate the opposition, but hate losing, which leads to more competitive games. If only the players treated the games like the fans and even PSD posters treat the games, the NBA would be more competitive and fun to watch

NYKalltheway
02-05-2011, 05:39 PM
Well, it's better to have a great group than just 1-2 great players in a team but if they want the NBA to have good competition they need to either address this issue in a way that one team can have 1 max contract or whatever they can think of, or there's the solution of contracting some franchises which would leave some 20 teams of which 15 can win the championship. Solution #2 is better for the neutrals, but even I'm pissed by the Seattle and even the Vancouver situations that I won't like that to happen.

kjoke
02-05-2011, 05:41 PM
i cant say its bad. everyone hates the heat now so the same intensity is there, mush more than the last few years when the entire league didnt have one common enemy

SpeeMN
02-05-2011, 05:43 PM
MONEY MONEY MONEY. If you look at the amount of money these players have been given recently, it does spoil the hell out of them. Life is now a cake walk for them and they take advantage. It rubs off on their basketball determination. EASY LIFE. Why not team up with the other stars and EASILY make the playoffs every year. You can spend more time in the clubs and less on your game.
Giving a 21 year old 3 million is much different than giving them 200,000 dollars with the hopes they could make maybe 5 million a year if they become a star. Lebron isn't the only player who thinks he's a king. It has turned into a league of KINGS. *****es

Sandman
02-05-2011, 05:44 PM
I don't participate with people I don't like.


But do we really wanna see people hate one another for our own entertainment.

People watch Jersey Shore.

Chronz
02-05-2011, 06:59 PM
No.

I don't see anyone questioning Russell's competitiveness because he was friends with Wilt.
What do you make of the speculation that russ only bad mouthed wilt at the end of his career right before retiring because he didn't want to take on an angry wilt?

knightstemplar
02-05-2011, 08:15 PM
im pretty sure celtics players are not buddies with the lakers

AddiX
02-05-2011, 08:19 PM
Smaller market teams who aren't doing well are screwed. No top free agents are going to go there anymore, and most of them won't stay with the ones that draft them.

I expect the league to contract within the next 5 years. Teams like Memphis, Minny, New Orleans, Milwaukee, these guys are prime candidates to be gone.

jaded01
02-05-2011, 10:12 PM
The players don't have to hate each other to hate losing to each other. Correct me if I'm wrong but Michael and Barkley were pretty amicable off-court. But when they were on court against each other, you could see the disgust in their bodies at the thought of losing to the other. And for us as fans, that makes it way more exciting.

The problem here is the Lebron-complex. Too many of the current stars have been pampered since they were 10. With top coaches, camps, and trainers, they reach their athletic potential very early and can dominate games without trying particularly hard. Because of the growth of the league (in terms of revenue), just being a lottery pick now guarantees you a very large sum of money. So too many guys are content to put up their 25/7/7 (or whatever the numbers may be) and sit on that knowing that they will: A) win more games than they lose B) get paid very well C) be excused from any real guilt of losing if they lack another top tier player.

In truth, none of us can say we wouldn't be complacent in the same situation, but the mentality or the rules has to change for anything to change.

icej
02-06-2011, 12:15 AM
The players don't have to hate each other to hate losing to each other. Correct me if I'm wrong but Michael and Barkley were pretty amicable off-court. But when they were on court against each other, you could see the disgust in their bodies at the thought of losing to the other. And for us as fans, that makes it way more exciting.

The problem here is the Lebron-complex. Too many of the current stars have been pampered since they were 10. With top coaches, camps, and trainers, they reach their athletic potential very early and can dominate games without trying particularly hard. Because of the growth of the league (in terms of revenue), just being a lottery pick now guarantees you a very large sum of money. So too many guys are content to put up their 25/7/7 (or whatever the numbers may be) and sit on that knowing that they will: A) win more games than they lose B) get paid very well C) be excused from any real guilt of losing if they lack another top tier player.

In truth, none of us can say we wouldn't be complacent in the same situation, but the mentality or the rules has to change for anything to change.

Can you please numerate those many guys that you so called content in producing a 25/7/7? <-- If these numbers are vast among the NBA players (just name 2), then the one that is making these should definitely not be content.

jaded01
02-06-2011, 12:38 AM
Can you please numerate those many guys that you so called content in producing a 25/7/7? <-- If these numbers are vast among the NBA players (just name 2), then the one that is making these should definitely not be content.

I was using Lebron numbers since I was talking about Lebron as the prototype. You can drop the stats down with the natural talent (since Lebron is obviously the most talented player) but the concept stays the same. There have been many times when people accused A'mare of not caring, and during that time he averaged over 20 and 8. Melo has been just going through the motions at points this season and he's averaging 24 and 8. My point is that there are plenty of players (near a majority I'd say) that are clearly content with a nice stat sheet, a playoff birth, and the paychecks.

Hunger to win is now drastically different than what it was because the hunger to win is win in general rather than win on your own. Michael took losing as his opponent beating him. He made every game personal. Today's stars tend to see things from more of a team-oriented perspective. No one can say Lebron played with anything resembling the championship Bulls' teams as far as talent goes, but the change of mentality from Lebron losing to the Cavs' losing makes it easier to swallow for the player. If he plays his best, and they lose, he understands he did what he could and its not his fault... that is why there isn't nearly as much hate.

Shkelqim
02-06-2011, 11:19 AM
It's just a different style thats all.

If you try to be too competitive, they'll call a foul right away.

The new NBA rules and fouls are killing the game.

Trace
02-06-2011, 12:36 PM
Also you don't realize that the times have changed. There are a lot more camps and prep schools for this game than during the 80s and the 90s so naturally most of these players would "befriend" their competition since they spend so much time together. With that said, I don't think it matters much. I'm not the kind of person that enjoys on-court drama.

I mean Michael Jordan still holds grudges after all these years...that's not healthy (see HOF speech)

: /

ragee
02-07-2011, 10:26 AM
I'll be against stars teaming up..... after the Knicks get Melo :D

Really? So you're going to be against the Knicks when CP3 decides to join his friends, Amare and Melo??? :D

magichatnumber9
02-07-2011, 10:37 AM
im pretty sure celtics players are not buddies with the lakers
Your wrong. KG and Kobe have been good friends for a long time. KG was thinking about going to the Lakers before going being traded to Boston.

Heater4life
02-07-2011, 11:14 AM
I see two themes coming to play in this thread:

A) The much scrutinized stars teaming up, and how its a negative for the NBA.

B) The league being softer as a whole, where players from opposing teams do not have hatred towards eachother as they did in the past.


As far as (A) goes, the only thing i and most NBA fans should care about is their teams competing for an NBA championship. Obviously the Miami Heat are the apex of scrutiny because they lured the big names, and they joined forces, but take a look at the competition.

Lakers: Bryant (perenial allstar), Gasol (allstar big man), Artest (multiple all star appearances), Odom (allstar caliber player), in conjunction with talented vets in whcih they aquire with mle and lle.

Spurs: Parker (allstar caliber), Ginobilli (allstar caliber), Duncan (allstar), Jefferson (all star caliber), etc.

Celtics: Rondo, Garnett, Allen, Pierce all allstar players.

Prior to the Heat joining forces there was already teams loaded with talent. They (the heat) didnt start a new trend, this was already a movement which had been started. The difference being they gutted an entire roster and convinced free agents to sign. but they could have as easily been a lottery team had they missed out.

As for (B), in todays modern era where every word is scrutinized by the media players tend to let there hatreds sether internally. Theres no point in having to deal with a media frenzy with publicly saying you dislike another player or team. Most players rather take out there frustations on the court and have their personal satisfaction without it letting it be known to the public.

LongWayFromHome
02-07-2011, 12:17 PM
Everyone shares a team with everybody these days.

http://www.math.uaa.alaska.edu/~afkjm/nbawelcome.html

This is from 2001 and its even worse now. The people who hated each other so much spent most of their careers with one team. Now there's this boys' club that ruins everything.

Tarheels23
02-07-2011, 12:19 PM
The NBA is all about dollars and self branding. The so called buddy system leads to publicity and brand recognition. Unfortunately, that is what 90% of the association has become.

That said, if you look at the title contenders this is not the case. The Celtics/Lakers have a rivaly. They do hate each other. Same goes for the Spurs/Lakers. And when the Magic/Celtics play there is definitely no friendliness going on. I think whoever the Heat end up playing this postseason will spark a new rivalry between the teams. Even a few years ago you had the Suns/Spurs series that sparked hatred.

There still are those competitive players in the league that want to beat the best to be the best. It is just a shame that these players are outnumbered significantly

Tarheels23
02-07-2011, 12:29 PM
I see two themes coming to play in this thread:

A) The much scrutinized stars teaming up, and how its a negative for the NBA.

B) The league being softer as a whole, where players from opposing teams do not have hatred towards eachother as they did in the past.


As far as (A) goes, the only thing i and most NBA fans should care about is their teams competing for an NBA championship. Obviously the Miami Heat are the apex of scrutiny because they lured the big names, and they joined forces, but take a look at the competition.

Lakers: Bryant (perenial allstar), Gasol (allstar big man), Artest (multiple all star appearances), Odom (allstar caliber player), in conjunction with talented vets in whcih they aquire with mle and lle.

Spurs: Parker (allstar caliber), Ginobilli (allstar caliber), Duncan (allstar), Jefferson (all star caliber), etc.

Celtics: Rondo, Garnett, Allen, Pierce all allstar players.

Prior to the Heat joining forces there was already teams loaded with talent. They (the heat) didnt start a new trend, this was already a movement which had been started. The difference being they gutted an entire roster and convinced free agents to sign. but they could have as easily been a lottery team had they missed out.
As for (B), in todays modern era where every word is scrutinized by the media players tend to let there hatreds sether internally. Theres no point in having to deal with a media frenzy with publicly saying you dislike another player or team. Most players rather take out there frustations on the court and have their personal satisfaction without it letting it be known to the public.

I am going to disagree with you. The other teams in the NBA have been built through free agency and the draft. The Heat's players all got together and decided to sign with the same team. Teams like the Lakers, Celtics, Surs, Magic etc have all had significant contributions from their GMs. While the Heat's GM was D Wade.

SteBO
02-07-2011, 12:34 PM
I am going to disagree with you. The other teams in the NBA have been built through free agency and the draft. The Heat's players all got together and decided to sign with the same team. Teams like the Lakers, Celtics, Surs, Magic etc have all had significant contributions from their GMs. While the Heat's GM was D Wade.
That irrelevant at the end of the day. Their teams were still stacked and all Miami did was counter. There isn't anything wrong with that, it's free agency. Do whatever it takes to win, I say.

JayTee1981
02-07-2011, 12:37 PM
I think players need to stop being so dam political and just say how they feel.... enough of this ...they played hard they are a good team.....he a good player crap. If you beat a team you should be allow to talk some smack cause why because you won the losing teams needs to play better or try harder.....I think thats the problem with sports to everybody is trying to be a classy guy in a world where its all about being the best.

kdspurman
02-07-2011, 12:47 PM
I see two themes coming to play in this thread:

A) The much scrutinized stars teaming up, and how its a negative for the NBA.

B) The league being softer as a whole, where players from opposing teams do not have hatred towards eachother as they did in the past.


As far as (A) goes, the only thing i and most NBA fans should care about is their teams competing for an NBA championship. Obviously the Miami Heat are the apex of scrutiny because they lured the big names, and they joined forces, but take a look at the competition.

Lakers: Bryant (perenial allstar), Gasol (allstar big man), Artest (multiple all star appearances), Odom (allstar caliber player), in conjunction with talented vets in whcih they aquire with mle and lle.

Spurs: Parker (allstar caliber), Ginobilli (allstar caliber), Duncan (allstar), Jefferson (all star caliber), etc.

Celtics: Rondo, Garnett, Allen, Pierce all allstar players.

Prior to the Heat joining forces there was already teams loaded with talent. They (the heat) didnt start a new trend, this was already a movement which had been started. The difference being they gutted an entire roster and convinced free agents to sign. but they could have as easily been a lottery team had they missed out.

As for (B), in todays modern era where every word is scrutinized by the media players tend to let there hatreds sether internally. Theres no point in having to deal with a media frenzy with publicly saying you dislike another player or team. Most players rather take out there frustations on the court and have their personal satisfaction without it letting it be known to the public.


the only difference atleast with san antonio is it tooks years of development for parker and manu to fit their system. Pop was not even a fan of TP when he got there, but it took years of development and commiting to their system. Boston got KG/Ray, Lakers got Gasol, obviously we know what the Heat did, and what seems to be a trend, but the spurs have gotten where they are by getting a little lucky getting Tim Duncan, and drafting very very well. They dont make big acquisitions, or trades like teams are doing now. Jefferson/MCDyess were their biggest acquisitions... Speaks for itself.

I'm fine with everyone else making moves and teaming up. That will never guarantee a championship, and at the end of the day you need a good bench and chemistry. Having 2 or 3 superstars and no bench doesnt mean anything. Teams will continue to try and blow their teams up like Miami did, but in the long run it will hurt them more.

It does make for one exciting season and speculations for sure.

Atownballa5
02-07-2011, 01:04 PM
I don't think the celtics are to blame, they traded everything away didn't they? And none of them talked about playing together that I'm aware of right? NBA these days is a reality show, whose signing where and with who. It's not about being a leader, the so called "leaders" need other all stars with them

kdspurman
02-07-2011, 01:06 PM
I don't think the celtics are to blame, they traded everything away didn't they? And none of them talked about playing together that I'm aware of right? NBA these days is a reality show, whose signing where and with who. It's not about being a leader, the so called "leaders" need other all stars with them

True... I dont think they knew they'd be playing together in boston i just think Boston knew Pierce needed help and they made those moves. Now it is a reality show, it's a little ridiculous

Philly 4 Life
02-07-2011, 01:19 PM
The buddy system sucks, but come playoff time or big time games i think da buddy thing goes out the window...i mean anyone that played sports knows that in the heat of a game or once your focus is set on winning you dont give a damn about whose on the otha team, the competitive nature just comes out in you especially as a franchise player

Tarheels23
02-07-2011, 01:21 PM
That irrelevant at the end of the day. Their teams were still stacked and all Miami did was counter. There isn't anything wrong with that, it's free agency. Do whatever it takes to win, I say.

I agree. Its free agency and a team should do whatever it takes to win. I have no problem with what Miami did. The goal is to make your team better and that is just what they did.

However that is not what this convo is about. It is about the "buddy system". Pierce, KG and Allen did not all meet and decide that they all wanted to play in Boston together. Kobe did not call Gasol and tell him to demand a trade to LA. Duncan did not know who Manu and TP were until they came to this country. Do you see what I mean? None of these teams were assembled via the "buddy system".

Philly 4 Life
02-07-2011, 01:22 PM
I mean it would actually be really hot if it owuld happen to lead to more ppl joining forces... for example:

the heat have their big 3...now lets say dat da lakers have kobe, melo, and gasol...nd da bulls already have rose, noah, and booz...da magic have their big 4...da celtics have their big 4...da spurs have their core guys...if paul wit go to dallas wit dirk, butler, chandler, terry...i mean come june it would lead to epic games with both teams haven their stars going mono on mono with eachotehr everytime down da floor but unless that happens then no i dont like it

SteBO
02-07-2011, 01:25 PM
I agree. Its free agency and a team should do whatever it takes to win. I have no problem with what Miami did. The goal is to make your team better and that is just what they did.

However that is not what this convo is about. It is about the "buddy system". Pierce, KG and Allen did not all meet and decide that they all wanted to play in Boston together. Kobe did not call Gasol and tell him to demand a trade to LA. Duncan did not know who Manu and TP were until they came to this country. Do you see what I mean? None of these teams were assembled via the "buddy system".
Oh OK. I misunderstood your post. Yes, Bostons' big three was via trade. Ray Allen I think was acquired through a draft trade. Rondo was drafted as well.

SpeeMN
02-07-2011, 01:27 PM
Smaller market teams who aren't doing well are screwed. No top free agents are going to go there anymore, and most of them won't stay with the ones that draft them.

I expect the league to contract within the next 5 years. Teams like Memphis, Minny, New Orleans, Milwaukee, these guys are prime candidates to be gone.

You will not see Minnesota get contracted. We are about to put $150million into upgrading the Target Center, because it sucks. There are 6 million people living within 40 minutes of the Target Center. The fan base for the Timberwolves stretches into North Dakota, South Dakota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Canada, and overseas. Minnesota IS the Northern Midwest of the United States. Not to mention our fanbase is just Now hitting full adulthood.

Heater4life
02-07-2011, 02:27 PM
That irrelevant at the end of the day. Their teams were still stacked and all Miami did was counter. There isn't anything wrong with that, it's free agency. Do whatever it takes to win, I say.

A perfect response in defense to my post, you read my mind on that one. :clap:


I agree. Its free agency and a team should do whatever it takes to win. I have no problem with what Miami did. The goal is to make your team better and that is just what they did.

However that is not what this convo is about. It is about the "buddy system". Pierce, KG and Allen did not all meet and decide that they all wanted to play in Boston together. Kobe did not call Gasol and tell him to demand a trade to LA. Duncan did not know who Manu and TP were until they came to this country. Do you see what I mean? None of these teams were assembled via the "buddy system".

Well the OP meant to point out the lack annomosity between NBA players today, and how they all seem to be "buddies" which makes the game a less exiting sport due to the lack of a seething rivalry; he coined it "the buudy system".

Now throughout the thread, the Heats free agency aquisitions became a secondary topic off of the OP's intended point, the joining forces topic is a by product of his "buddies system".

Now heres a question i have for those of you that disagree with joining forces: If you agree with the lack of competitive ferver in the NBA and you agree that there is a group of elite teams in the NBA loaded with talent, how ever they may have been assembled (Lakers, Celtics, Spurs, etc.), how are players such as Lebron, Wade, and Bosh ruining the NBA's competitive nature if there conjunction is merely a counter to compete with those elite teams?

Hawkeye15
02-07-2011, 02:31 PM
http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/johnson/2010/03/19/too-much-love/

Great article by Eddie Johnson regarding this. He is 100% right too. The buddy buddy crap in today's game is disgusting.

Tarheels23
02-07-2011, 02:35 PM
A perfect response in defense to my post, you read my mind on that one. :clap:



Well the OP meant to point out the lack annomosity between NBA players today, and how they all seem to be "buddies" which makes the game a less exiting sport due to the lack of a seething rivalry; he coined it "the buudy system".

Now throughout the thread, the Heats free agency aquisitions became a secondary topic off of the OP's intended point, the joining forces topic is a by product of his "buddies system".

Now heres a question i have for those of you that disagree with joining forces: If you agree with the lack of competitive ferver in the NBA and you agree that there is a group of elite teams in the NBA loaded with talent, how ever they may have been assembled (Lakers, Celtics, Spurs, etc.), how are players such as Lebron, Wade, and Bosh ruining the NBA's competitive nature if there conjunction is merely a counter to compete with those elite teams?

Good question, and I'm not sure I have an answer for you.

Sandman
02-07-2011, 02:38 PM
Did they create a buddy system or did they finally start rivalries in this age? Don't a lot of people hate them now?