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Furymaker
02-04-2011, 08:36 PM
I didn't opened this up to talk trash about this guy , I'm just having a discussion with my friend about his defense , and he claims that Ellis is top 5 perimeter defenders in NBA :facepalm: now i know that's full crap and I want to find some numbers how much other players scores against him , something like points allowed per game or something like , but can't find it .
So I know there are a lot of you guys who know stuff like this , so help me out .
Mod please keep this opened while I don't get an response , then you can delete it , because of Ellis haters on PSD .

Swashcuff
02-04-2011, 08:42 PM
Your friend knows absolutely NOTHING about basketball don't even bother discussing anything about the sport with him.

Furymaker
02-04-2011, 08:44 PM
Well I'm trying to prove him that , even if I try to ignore him , he keep saying stuff like that , so i want to shut him up , to prove him he's wrong .
I know it's not worth it , but I can't stand him , he's boring with Ellis and his defense .
Probably next thing he'll say - "Monta Ellis is most efficient player in NBA"

asandhu23
02-04-2011, 08:45 PM
I am the biggest Monta Ellis fan on this and even I think your friend is ********

SugeKnight
02-04-2011, 08:50 PM
Maybe your friend bases defense on steals per game, which is stupid because monta is far below average at defending

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-04-2011, 08:51 PM
Maybe he thinks that because he gets a lot of steals:shrug:

RZZZA
02-04-2011, 08:52 PM
the Warriors are a great defensive team and Monta's nickname is Stonewall Ellis

Furymaker
02-04-2011, 08:55 PM
I know , I even told him that someones defense can't be seen through stats , like spg or bpg ... how many TO's someone force to other guys could be good number to show what kind of defender someone is , but I'm not that much in advanced stats , so at least I'm going to try to show him numbers of points allowed per game of Monta , that would be enough to shut him up :)

avsman05
02-04-2011, 09:04 PM
Best way to do it is take the stats of individual games of players he was guarding?

Furymaker
02-04-2011, 09:06 PM
i have no idea , i'm trying to find any stats to show him , but just can't find it , i might go and take last 10 games and take average points of other players he guarded , that should do it . So none in here don't know where I can find those stats ?

netsgiantsyanks
02-04-2011, 09:08 PM
how about you punch him in the face and walk away? that'll get him to shut the **** up and to stop spewing nonsense.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
02-04-2011, 09:15 PM
i have no idea , i'm trying to find any stats to show him , but just can't find it , i might go and take last 10 games and take average points of other players he guarded , that should do it . So none in here don't know where I can find those stats ?

Just tell your friend that Monta's defensive rating is worse than Fisher's.

That should end the discussion.

ManRam
02-04-2011, 09:34 PM
All you have to do to prove him wrong is name 5 better defenders. Here you go. LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Rondo and Paul. You could probably name 50 more.

The stats should be easily accessible, I just don't feel like looking them up for something so stupid. He's obviously not a top 5 perimeter defender, and it's not worth arguing with someone who thinks so.

Furymaker
02-04-2011, 09:35 PM
As much as I know about stats , I know that Defensive rating is not good source to say who is good defender . Good or great team defense will make your rating look like you are best defender out there . As we all know GSW and defense are two different things , so his rating should be bad , while we may take Fisher and Paul as another examples of team defense , we all know how bad Fisher defensive rating is , and Lakers defense is among best of league , that makes Fisher very bad defender , while Hornets team defense just as same as Lakers , and Paul defensive rating is the best among guards.

I think Points allowed and forced turnovers are stats that could show us who is good or bad defender .

Mod you can delete this one , I took last 10 games of GSW and points other SG scored against Ellis and I've received average of around 22 ppg allowed , difference between ppg scored and allowed is 3.5 for Ellis , he scores 25ppg so that means he allows 21.5 ppg .

Feel free to delete this one up .

Chronz
02-04-2011, 09:36 PM
For the basic stuff you can go to BBR for his WinShares and Defensive Rating

Counterpart Production
http://www.82games.com/1011/10GSW4.HTM#bypos

Team Influence
http://basketballvalue.com/player.php?year=2010-2011&id=417

kobebabe
02-04-2011, 09:49 PM
My advice: never argue with a fool. people might not notice the difference. Stay out of this conversation . ait's flat out stupid

JIDsanity
02-04-2011, 10:00 PM
I am the biggest Monta Ellis fan on this and even I think your friend is ********

You have the greatest sig of all time. OF ALL TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LADTXR
02-04-2011, 10:14 PM
All you have to do to prove him wrong is name 5 better defenders. Here you go. LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Rondo and Paul. You could probably name 50 more.

The stats should be easily accessible, I just don't feel like looking them up for something so stupid. He's obviously not a top 5 perimeter defender, and it's not worth arguing with someone who thinks so.

Rondo? Really? I think Rondo is an average defender. Talk about someone that constantly lets guys go around him just so he can go for a steal. I think Monta and Rondo are on the same defensive level.

Swashcuff
02-04-2011, 10:16 PM
Rondo? Really? I think Rondo is an average defender. Talk about someone that constantly lets guys go around him just so he can go for a steal. I think Monta and Rondo are on the same defensive level.

OOOOOOOOOOO

So you are the OP's friend. I see.

ManRam
02-04-2011, 10:20 PM
OOOOOOOOOOO

So you are the OP's friend. I see.

:laugh:

I laughed out loud.

Only one guard in the NBA has a better DRating. Top 5 among guards in defensive win shares, despite missing 7 games. Screw the stats even...if you just watch him, it's obvious.

LADTXR
02-04-2011, 10:43 PM
Celtics are a great defensive team and rondo gets a lot of help from the other guys. Rondo may be top 5 defensive point guard in the east but that's about it.

Swashcuff
02-04-2011, 10:57 PM
Celtics are a great defensive team and rondo gets a lot of help from the other guys. Rondo may be top 5 defensive point guard in the east but that's about it.

Ray Allen and Paul Pierce also get a lot of help but no one would say either of them are top defenders.

I'd like to know something.

Defensively how do you rank the PGs in the NBA?

Chronz
02-04-2011, 11:06 PM
Paul Pierce has always been a good to great defender long before KG showed up.

Swashcuff
02-04-2011, 11:09 PM
Paul Pierce has always been a good to great defender long before KG showed up.

I would say more in the good region and also would never say he was at any point a top defender.

LADTXR
02-05-2011, 12:41 AM
Ray Allen and Paul Pierce also get a lot of help but no one would say either of them are top defenders.

I'd like to know something.

Defensively how do you rank the PGs in the NBA?

idk bro i don't sit around and rank players cuz it's all personal opinions. But it doesn't take a genius to watch a game and watch guys run by rondo as he reaches in and goes for the steal. Sure, at times he can be good but way to often does he go for the steal and let his defender go by him. When my girlfriend (rondo is her favorite player) and her dad who coached basketball and basically lives,eats and breathes basketball says that rondo for the most part does not play good enough defense. So in my opinion, if rondo is considered one of the best defenders in the league then no one plays defense for half a game.

Hawkeye15
02-05-2011, 12:43 AM
do we really have a thread up with the name Monta Ellis with the term "defense"?
Amazing

Chacarron
02-05-2011, 12:46 AM
Just name Sefolosha to him.

Sixerlover
02-05-2011, 01:35 AM
I am the biggest Monta Ellis fan on this and even I think your friend is ********

Change your sig. I literally couldn't stop looking at it for like 10 minutes, then quoted you. I didn't even read this thread. This will happen every time you post. I won't be able to concentrate. My opinion will no longer be valid. People will start to hate me. I will get banned from PSD. I can't stop looking at Katy Perry. Change your sig please.