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View Full Version : Chris Sheridan: top 5 players to build a franchise on for the next 10 years



D Roses Bulls
02-01-2011, 01:40 PM
Saw this in Sheridans chat yesterday. do you guys agree with the players he picked? If not, then who would your 5 be? If you wanna know why he was split on griffin/love and why he doesn't have dwight howard on the list, click the link to read what he said.


Daniel (Australia)


As of today, who are the top 5 players to build a franchise on for the next 10 years? And do Wall and Griffin come anywhere near that list?


Chris Sheridan
(2:02 PM)


I like this question, Daniel. For 10 years, eh? I's say my five are PG-Derrick Rose; SG-Kevin Durant; SF: LeBron James; PF: Kevin Love/Blake Griffin. C-DeMarcus Cousins. Can't make up my mind on the 4. Folks, your thoughts? I'll post a few responses.


http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/36753/nba-with-chris-sheridan

Avenged
02-01-2011, 01:41 PM
I thought Durant played SF?

ugottabjoshinme
02-01-2011, 01:41 PM
I don't like how he picked a player at each position.

D Roses Bulls
02-01-2011, 01:43 PM
I thought Durant played SF?

I guess he said if he was building a team for the next 10 years, that's how he would do it? I'm guessing.

JerseysFinest
02-01-2011, 01:44 PM
Wow, no Howard?

Hawkeye15
02-01-2011, 01:45 PM
I don't see why he needed a player at each position.
As for Love/Griffin, there will be a debate until it plays out. Love is just consistently killing it. Blake is also playing great, and just has a sexier game. Can't go wrong with either at PF going forward, they are easily the top 2 PF's under the age of 25, no question.

Avenged
02-01-2011, 01:46 PM
I guess he said if he was building a team for the next 10 years, that's how he would do it? I'm guessing.

I'd have Durant in too if building a team the next 10 years but since he's going off of positions, doesn't make sense to misplace players just for his benefit. No big deal, maybe Durant plays the 2 at times and I don't know. :shrug:

D Roses Bulls
02-01-2011, 01:47 PM
I'd have Durant in too if building a team the next 10 years but since he's going off of positions, doesn't make sense to misplace players just for his benefit. No big deal, maybe Durant plays the 2 at times and I don't know. :shrug:

yeah, I don't know either, but I could actually see it though.

D Roses Bulls
02-01-2011, 01:49 PM
You were the first to bring Rose into this discussion despite him being in the article. If you don't want to talk about him, don't bring him up.

:shrug:

thank you, wish more people would think that way

dnewguy
02-01-2011, 01:49 PM
from the guy who said, with derrick rose, anything is possible. that someone used in their sig :rolleyes:

I said it in a sentence, the sig you saw is part of a statement, not the whole thing. It's like Foxnews doing a hack job on a Democrat, they will cut out the part they like and leave the rest. Rose is indeed the best scoring pg in the league today but we all know that CP3 is better that him when he has the right players around him.

Swashcuff
02-01-2011, 01:51 PM
You were the first to bring Rose into this discussion despite him being in the article. If you don't want to talk about him, don't bring him up.

:shrug:

Why even bother with him

dnewguy
02-01-2011, 01:51 PM
You were the first to bring Rose into this discussion despite him being in the article. If you don't want to talk about him, don't bring him up.

:shrug:

Just saying, it starts to get annoying when you hear so much about someone that isn't even top 5 good.

Swashcuff
02-01-2011, 01:55 PM
I am a bit surprised to see Cousins there at C and not Howard, i mean based on what we've seen from Howard you'd think the fact that he's seasoned, the best defensive C of this generation the pillar of health and consistency (on D) and the fact that he's only 25 years old. I mean Cousins is much younger but IMO he'd never develop into the player that Dwight Howard is.

I am no fortune tell nor am I a betting man but I'd be will to wager that Howard at 30 will be better than Cousins at 25. Even without the athleticism he's still going to be a very capable C in the NBA IMO.

D Roses Bulls
02-01-2011, 01:56 PM
I am a bit surprised to see Cousins there at C and not Howard, i mean based on what we've seen from Howard you'd think the fact that he's seasoned, the best defensive C of this generation the pillar of health and consistency (on D) and the fact that he's only 25 years old. I mean Cousins is much younger but IMO he'd never develop into the player that Dwight Howard is.

I am no fortune tell nor am I a betting man but I'd be will to wager that Howard at 30 will be better than Cousins at 25. Even without the athleticism he's still going to be a very capable C in the NBA IMO.

well, he did explain that in the chat. he didn't realize I think that howard just turned 25. poor researching on his part.

dnewguy
02-01-2011, 01:58 PM
and btw Durrant is a SF not a SG

Swashcuff
02-01-2011, 01:59 PM
well, he did explain that in the chat. he didn't realize I think that howard just turned 25. poor researching on his part.

I didn't read through it thanks for the heads up. Really wasn't interested in hearing his reasoning however. ;)

Avenged
02-01-2011, 02:00 PM
I am a bit surprised to see Cousins there at C and not Howard, i mean based on what we've seen from Howard you'd think the fact that he's seasoned, the best defensive C of this generation the pillar of health and consistency (on D) and the fact that he's only 25 years old. I mean Cousins is much younger but IMO he'd never develop into the player that Dwight Howard is.

I am no fortune tell nor am I a betting man but I'd be will to wager that Howard at 30 will be better than Cousins at 25. Even without the athleticism he's still going to be a very capable C in the NBA IMO.

I was going to mention this as well..

I'm not really sold on him and he hasn't necessarily been that impressive to me. He has a solid passing game though as far as I can tell, but the 5 should belong to Dwight.

Avenged
02-01-2011, 02:01 PM
and btw Durrant is a SF not a SG

Yes, I brought this up. Like D Roses Bulls said, probably just poor research all around from this guy.

Draco
02-01-2011, 02:04 PM
weird how everyone has hopped off the tyreke evans bandwagon.. yeah, I know all about his injuries this season but if we're projecting 10 years out, I thought evans was supposed to be jesus in basketball shoes.

BkOriginalOne
02-01-2011, 02:05 PM
1. Durant
2. Howard
3. Griffin
4. Rose
5. Wall

I don't love can be the franchise, but he can be the most important piece of the puzzle for a team

dhopisthename
02-01-2011, 02:05 PM
yeah cousins shouldn't be there over dwight. sure dwight will be 36 years old in ten years but his body of work will be much better then cousins
my list:
pg-rose
sg-ummm
sf-durant/lebron
pf-blake
c-howard

ugafan
02-01-2011, 02:08 PM
An almost 7'0" SG :laugh2:

Swashcuff
02-01-2011, 02:08 PM
1. Durant
2. Howard
3. Griffin
4. Rose
5. Wall

I don't love can be the franchise, but he can be the most important piece of the puzzle for a team

So you'd honestly take John Wall over LeBron James. :confused: how is he there over Chris Paul even? CP is the same age as Howard and are both a year younger than LeBron. :confused:

PhillyFaninLA
02-01-2011, 02:08 PM
I wouldn't touch Cousins...he's too much of a head case.

Swashcuff
02-01-2011, 02:11 PM
If we're going by position and just based on the positions in which the players actually play (KD can play SG but is every a SF is/should be) my list would look as follows.

PG: Derrick Rose
SG: Eric Gordon
SF: LeBron James
PF: Blake Griffin
C: Dwight Howard

PhillyFaninLA
02-01-2011, 02:12 PM
Yes, I brought this up. Like D Roses Bulls said, probably just poor research all around from this guy.

My thought was he put Durant there because he thinks Durant could play SG and was just trying to create what he envisioned as the best possible starting 5 over the next 10 years.

Draco
02-01-2011, 02:12 PM
a lot of love for small backcourts in this thread.

Avenged
02-01-2011, 02:20 PM
My thought was he put Durant there because he thinks Durant could play SG and was just trying to create what he envisioned as the best possible starting 5 over the next 10 years.

Yes but I just don't see why if he's going off positions. He would have been better off not putting them into positions but it's not big deal.. I don't necessarily disagree with his list besides Cousins.

D Roses Bulls
02-01-2011, 02:25 PM
I wonder how good lebron will be at 33,34,35...... if lebron loses a step without developing a more consistent jumper or a major post game, doesnt that kind of make him useless?

Sox72
02-01-2011, 02:31 PM
Just saying, it starts to get annoying when you hear so much about someone that isn't even top 5 good.

All coming from the most illegitimate poster on PSD......Congratulations, by the way, on earning that (along with Hustlenomics).

madvillian9
02-01-2011, 02:33 PM
All coming from the most illegitimate poster on PSD......Congratulations, by the way, on earning that (along with Hustlenomics).

that seems to be something you learn very quickly in the nba forum

D Roses Bulls
02-01-2011, 02:33 PM
for me is would be.....

pg:rose
sg:E Gordan
sf: Durrant (that's assuming lebrn doesnt get a more consistent jumper or turn around)
pf:Griffin
C:howard

JayTee1981
02-01-2011, 02:34 PM
Wow, no Howard?

I know right :facepalm:

nwilder
02-01-2011, 02:37 PM
That's a pretty stupid list for 2 reasons mainly:

1. No Dwight Howard

2. Why is it necessary to get one player from each position?


LeBron, Griffin, Durant, Dwight, CP3 would be my top 5.

Chi StateOfMind
02-01-2011, 02:44 PM
I don't like how he picked a player at each position.

could'nt agree with more

Baller1
02-01-2011, 02:48 PM
LeBron
Durant
Howard
Griffin

Then you have Love, Rose, CP3, Westbrook, Rondo, Cousins, Wall, and even Wade.

D Roses Bulls
02-01-2011, 02:49 PM
LeBron
Durant
Howard
Griffin

Then you have Love, Rose, CP3, Westbrook, Rondo, Cousins, Wall, and even Wade.

wade wont be a top 5 player for no more then 3-4 years more in my opinion. he's starting to get up there in age.

Swashcuff
02-01-2011, 03:00 PM
LeBron
Durant
Howard
Griffin

Then you have Love, Rose, CP3, Westbrook, Rondo, Cousins, Wall, and even Wade.

I think we're starting to overrate Cousins a bit now. I mean he's beginning to come along really nicely but he could soon turn into the OJ Mayo of big men. He is a headcase and if he doesn't get that fixed he's going to really cause issues with his franchise, teammates and coaches.

Wade is almost 30. IMO he won't even be in the league in 10 years.

If you are going to include Westbrook and Rondo I'd pose the question, where is Carmelo and D. Will? You do also realize that Rondo is going to be one of the hardest player's to build around right.

John Walls Era
02-01-2011, 03:05 PM
Chris Sheridan picked Cousins? Are we assuming that the list is based off just talent?

1) Lebron James
2) Blake Griffin
3) Dwight Howard (this says a lot about the lack of true Cs in the league)
4) Derrick Rose (based off this season alone and assuming he can be better)
5) John Wall (did you think I would leave him off?)

Baller1
02-01-2011, 03:08 PM
I think we're starting to overrate Cousins a bit now. I mean he's beginning to come along really nicely but he could soon turn into the OJ Mayo of big men. He is a headcase and if he doesn't get that fixed he's going to really cause issues with his franchise, teammates and coaches.

Wade is almost 30. IMO he won't even be in the league in 10 years.

If you are going to include Westbrook and Rondo I'd pose the question, where is Carmelo and D. Will? You do also realize that Rondo is going to be one of the hardest player's to build around right.

Cousins was thrown in there based off of his rapid improvement this season and age. Wade is still one of the best players in the league, I'd be fine having him on my team if I was forced to play that hand. I wouldn't build my team around Melo, and yes, I forgot to add D-Will.

Baller1
02-01-2011, 03:09 PM
Chris Sheridan picked Cousins? Are we assuming that the list is based off just talent?

1) Lebron James
2) Blake Griffin
3) Dwight Howard (this says a lot about the lack of true Cs in the league)
4) Derrick Rose (based off this season alone and assuming he can be better)
5) John Wall (did you think I would leave him off?)

Durant?

Chi StateOfMind
02-01-2011, 03:27 PM
1.)Dwight Howard
2.)Kevin Durant
3.)Blake Griffin
4.)Derrick Rose
5.)Kevin Love

dhoops24
02-01-2011, 03:28 PM
Kevin Love, really? I understand he is playing really well now. I do realize he can rebound, and there are alot of rebounds to go around in Minny.

But a Top 5 player to build a franchise for. Wow. Did Chris Sheridan also tell Detroit to draft Darko Milicic too?

JordansBulls
02-01-2011, 03:30 PM
Saw this in Sheridans chat yesterday. do you guys agree with the players he picked? If not, then who would your 5 be? If you wanna know why he was split on griffin/love and why he doesn't have dwight howard on the list, click the link to read what he said.




http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/36753/nba-with-chris-sheridan

I don't understand how Dwight is not on this list.

D Roses Bulls
02-01-2011, 03:33 PM
I don't understand how Dwight is not on this list.

I explained it on page two, but so did sheridan. I dont htink he realized dwight just turned 25.

Swashcuff
02-01-2011, 03:34 PM
Cousins was thrown in there based off of his rapid improvement this season and age. Wade is still one of the best players in the league, I'd be fine having him on my team if I was forced to play that hand. I wouldn't build my team around Melo, and yes, I forgot to add D-Will.

Rapid improvement? :confused:

He has started playing as he was expected to. Rapid improvement would be what we've seen from Love and Blake over the course of this season.

You would build your team around Rondo and not Melo. :confused:

As GREAT as Rondo is he is not the type of player you attempt to build a team around.

dnewguy
02-01-2011, 03:36 PM
All coming from the most illegitimate poster on PSD......Congratulations, by the way, on earning that (along with Hustlenomics).

:(

MurderousPress
02-01-2011, 03:38 PM
Honestly we've heard enough about Rose, never in NBA history have we discussed so much about a player who isn't even in top 5 in the game. He is good, but all this Rose ecstasy begins and stops with Bulls fans.

Someone get rid of this thread please.

I said this because I believe the OP created this thread because Rose is in it.

I gotta ask, who's the girl in your sig?

Double_R
02-01-2011, 03:42 PM
This list is the reason why Sheridan is chatting on ESPN and not doing anything better.
Cousins over Howard.... haahhahhahahahhahahahhahhahahhhahahahhahhahhahahha hahahhahhahahahhahahhahhahhahhahhahhahhahhahhahhah hahhahhahhahhahahhahhahhahhahahhahahhahhahhahhahha ha

ugafan
02-01-2011, 03:51 PM
I wonder how good lebron will be at 33,34,35...... if lebron loses a step without developing a more consistent jumper or a major post game, doesnt that kind of make him useless?

I think he'll adjust to the post game very well. He could be a top 5 PF in the league when he starts to lose a step.

blahblahyoutoo
02-01-2011, 03:59 PM
Wow, no Howard?

howard is overrated.

Swashcuff
02-01-2011, 03:59 PM
I think he'll adjust to the post game very well. He could be a top 5 PF in the league when he starts to lose a step.

:confused:

LeBron a top 5 PF?

Baller1
02-01-2011, 04:00 PM
Rapid improvement? :confused:

He has started playing as he was expected to. Rapid improvement would be what we've seen from Love and Blake over the course of this season.

You would build your team around Rondo and not Melo. :confused:

As GREAT as Rondo is he is not the type of player you attempt to build a team around.

Absolutely.

godolphins
02-01-2011, 04:00 PM
When I saw Drosesbulls made this thread I automatically thought it had something to do with Derrick Rose...................and I was right

ATX
02-01-2011, 04:02 PM
In no particular order:

Howard, CP3, Griffin, Durant, James

RZZZA
02-01-2011, 04:06 PM
When I saw Drosesbulls made this thread I automatically thought it had something to do with Derrick Rose...................and I was right

and that just makes you :mad: doesn't it?

affected

Swashcuff
02-01-2011, 04:08 PM
Absolutely.

So then why would you build one around Kevin Durant?

Durant is indeed a better player but its not like he's two tiers higher than Melo.

Me personally I wouldn't either but neither would I build it around Westbrook or Rondo for that matter.

What has Westbrook shown to convince you he's a better player to build a team around than Melo? What would be the pieces you would attempt to surround Rondo with to be able to contend?

I really would love to hear this plan to build this team.

I am trying to understand your logic and reasoning. All Melo needed Denver last season was a legit C moving Nene back over to his natural position of PF and they would have been considered possible contenders. The reason the Nuggets haven't done better with Melo is because of their system and the players in which they surrounded him with. It wasn't his fault.

D Roses Bulls
02-01-2011, 04:14 PM
When I saw Drosesbulls made this thread I automatically thought it had something to do with Derrick Rose...................and I was right

http://knowyourmeme.com/i/000/063/991/original/urkelumad.jpg

Minimal
02-01-2011, 04:15 PM
I suppose by this thread you wanted to say that you're not only one who thinks Rose will be better than Wall, because I don't think anyone cares who would that guy choose to build the franchise for next 10 years.

D Roses Bulls
02-01-2011, 04:16 PM
why is it in this thread, the only ones bringing up rose are heat fans?

RZZZA
02-01-2011, 04:17 PM
let's talk about wade and lebron so heat fans don't get whiny

Baller1
02-01-2011, 04:19 PM
So then why would you build one around Kevin Durant?

Durant is indeed a better player but its not like he's two tiers higher than Melo.

Me personally I wouldn't either but neither would I build it around Westbrook or Rondo for that matter.

What has Westbrook shown to convince you he's a better player to build a team around than Melo? What would be the pieces you would attempt to surround Rondo with to be able to contend?

I really would love to hear this plan to build this team.

I am trying to understand your logic and reasoning. All Melo needed Denver last season was a legit C moving Nene back over to his natural position of PF and they would have been considered possible contenders. The reason the Nuggets haven't done better with Melo is because of their system and the players in which they surrounded him with. It wasn't his fault.

Well Durant is a better player across the board, and also a more popular/fan friendly person. So that one's an easy decision.

Westbrook is just as good as Rose (I'm not arguing with you Bulls fans, so don't even waste your time), so let me flip it on you and ask why you would build around Rose but not Westbrook?

Rondo is probably the easiest to build around; you find sharp shooters and big men who finish efficiently at the rim and you're basically guaranteed a playoff team if those same players can play adequate defense.

D Roses Bulls
02-01-2011, 04:21 PM
let's talk about wade and lebron so heat fans don't get whiny

I swear...... it's like lebron was on this list and they still aren't satisfied. I posted this and if it didn't have lebron on here, I would be called a hater because they would be saying im rubbing it in their faces , but since it does, they go to the next thing, which is rose and im putting this up here cause of rose. trolls, I swear.

alencp3
02-01-2011, 04:24 PM
I don't see why he needed a player at each position.
As for Love/Griffin, there will be a debate until it plays out. Love is just consistently killing it. Blake is also playing great, and just has a sexier game. Can't go wrong with either at PF going forward, they are easily the top 2 PF's under the age of 25, no question.

Im pretty sure u will trade Love for Griffin in a second...

alencp3
02-01-2011, 04:25 PM
I will sound dumb but i personally think Wall will be better than Rose

DerekRE_3
02-01-2011, 04:25 PM
Good to see Boogie get some love. He's a guy you can run your offense through. He can operate in the low or high post and is a good passer.

D Roses Bulls
02-01-2011, 04:25 PM
I will sound dumb but i personally think Wall will be better than Rose

thats not dumb, thats an opinion which everyone is entitled too.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2011, 04:28 PM
Im pretty sure u will trade Love for Griffin in a second...

I have been on record here saying I would. That being said, there is the element of injuries. Players like Griffin will find it nearly impossible to go thru his career playing with that abandon. But since I, nor anyone, has a crystal ball, I go with Griffin. He may be one of the few who play crazy to defy the norm.

And in reality, can't go wrong with either.

Lake_Show2416
02-01-2011, 04:31 PM
No Dwight Howard but instead his guy has an unproven rookie with maturity issues

Rose is a beast tho

Swashcuff
02-01-2011, 04:34 PM
Well Durant is a better player across the board, and also a more popular/fan friendly person. So that one's an easy decision.

Westbrook is just as good as Rose (I'm not arguing with you Bulls fans, so don't even waste your time), so let me flip it on you and ask why you would build around Rose but not Westbrook?

Rondo is probably the easiest to build around; you find sharp shooters and big men who finish efficiently at the rim and you're basically guaranteed a playoff team if those same players can play adequate defense.

And what is Carmelo Anthony?

I am not a bulls fan don't make that mistake.

Rose is better and we all know this. Rose has the upside to become the best player in the game (not likely to happen but he has displayed that kind of potential), Westbrook doesn't Rose has proven to come up big in late game scenarios and is a much better shooter than Westbrook. Westbrook is more athletic for certain and is one of the most complete PGs in the league but can be erratic at times. Rose has the potential to lead his team to a championship Westbrook cannot, he can be a very good #2 and on some nights perform as a #1 however.

The difference between them both is essentially the difference between Carmelo and Durant.

You say Rondo is the easiest to build a team around? :confused:

You really make it sound that simple huh. Well it isn't. Sure you place some good guys around him and yeah you'd have a play-off team but would that team make it out of the first round. If your best player isn't able to lead you when its crunch time and takeover ball games what's your predicament?

godolphins
02-01-2011, 04:34 PM
http://knowyourmeme.com/i/000/063/991/original/urkelumad.jpg

:sleep: Can't you guys come up with your own slogan

Swashcuff
02-01-2011, 04:36 PM
I will sound dumb but i personally think Wall will be better than Rose

That's not dumb. A lot were of that opinion before he came into the league but then Rose stepped his game up so much this season some may have started reneging on that statement. You'd sound dumb if you say he's already better though.

KingsPhillies
02-01-2011, 04:37 PM
While I cannot justify picking Cousins over Howard at this point in his career, I think you guys are being a little harsh on DeMarcus. He's not nearly as much of a "head-case" as everyone is making him out to be. Sure, he's had a tiff or two with Westphal, but nothing serious. He was thrown out of practice once, 3 months ago, and people still dwell on it. Does he have a mean streak? Yes. But as a Kings fan, that's what I want. That's something we've been lacking from a big man for a while. He's finally starting to find his niche, and isn't causing any problems in the locker room as of late.

I have an example of his improved maturity. During warm-ups before the Kings-Lakers game this last week, Lakers Assistant Brian Shaw approached Cousins and said, "I know who Andrew Bynum is going to eat for dinner tonight". Did that upset Cousins? It sure did. But instead of flipping out and/or letting it negatively affect his performance on the court, he responded by dropping 27 and 10(along with 2 blocks and 3 steals) en route to a Kings win in LA. Bynum finished with 12 and 3. The following night(against a Hornets team who had won 10 straight), he put up 25, 12 and 7; helping the Kings win back-to-back games for the first time in [my] recent memory.

Call me a homer or whatever, I don't care. I just think everyone is still judging Cousins based on all the negative pre-draft hype, and biased media reports. After all, he's still a rookie, so of course he's going to need time to grow. Not every rookie big can be Blake Griffin. I also think it did Blake some good to sit out a year, and see first-hand what it's like to go through an entire NBA season. But let's be honest, Blake is a freakin' BEAST regardless.

Although I agree with most of you in that Chris Sheridan is an incompetent fool, I still think Cousins is a worthy player to build your team around. Maybe not top 5, but top 10-15. I think he'll be better offensively than Dwight, but not defensively. If you look at Dwight's rookie stats, they're not all that dissimilar than DeMarcus'. And if he can keep the pace he's been playing at(19.2 pts., 8.2 reb., and 3.4 ast. in his last 5 games), he very well may eventually compete with Dwight for the top C in the league. Anything is possible. And if Tyreke can get healthy, find his shot, and improve the way many expected, the Kings have a bright future. So while we don't have Dwight, Durant, LeBron or any of those guys, we still have a solid base to build a team around.

Should be interesting to see what transpires tonight against Boston. :clap:

D Roses Bulls
02-01-2011, 04:49 PM
:sleep: Can't you guys come up with your own slogan

some of you really need to stop being such trolls and get a life.

jim51990
02-01-2011, 04:59 PM
i agree youd have to take dwight over cousins but cousins should without a doubt be the second choice
if he gets his mind right he will be amazing

nwilder
02-01-2011, 05:10 PM
I will sound dumb but i personally think Wall will be better than Rose

Ofcourse not. I would take Wall ahead of Rose in the long run too. That's not being dumb.

pd1dish
02-01-2011, 05:13 PM
just saying, it starts to get annoying when you hear so much about someone that isn't even top 5 good.

d rose in the top 5 baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Avenged
02-01-2011, 05:38 PM
1.)Dwight Howard
2.)Kevin Durant
3.)Blake Griffin
4.)Derrick Rose
5.)Kevin Love

This is a solid list without positioning..

I'd still have a guy like CP3 over Love and Griffin though.

Lebron James is also another guy i'd definitely have in the top 5.

Avenged
02-01-2011, 05:39 PM
why is it in this thread, the only ones bringing up rose are heat fans?

:shrug: good question..

beats me.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2011, 05:57 PM
Well Durant is a better player across the board, and also a more popular/fan friendly person. So that one's an easy decision.

Westbrook is just as good as Rose (I'm not arguing with you Bulls fans, so don't even waste your time), so let me flip it on you and ask why you would build around Rose but not Westbrook?

Rondo is probably the easiest to build around; you find sharp shooters and big men who finish efficiently at the rim and you're basically guaranteed a playoff team if those same players can play adequate defense.

its tougher because of this. Starting a team is finding the guy with the fewest weaknesses. Starting with Rondo means you have to add some of the most important elements in basketball still. Scoring, shooting, etc. Rondo is an ultimate compliment, but I would never have thought to start a team with Jason Kidd for example.

Phenomenonsense
02-01-2011, 05:57 PM
I can't believe he picked Cousins with his attitude. There is no way of knowing whether or not that will destroy him. Monroe is so much smarter and a hard worker. I'd take Monroe any day of the week.

Kings Faithful
02-01-2011, 06:15 PM
I love how people still act like Cousins is some ticking time bomb ready to explode at anytime inciting a massive Brawl. As a Kings fan I can tell you the notion is ridiculous... he might complain about calls once in a while (he's gotten alot better since the start of the season) but most of the time he just shuts up and runs down the court to avoid any problems. Aside from one locker room incident which no one even knows any details about we haven't had any problems. I can assure you that Cousins "INSANITY" will not destroy him anymore than Kobe or Garnett's attitudes destroy them. At least cousins comes off as a likable guy. Any Laker fan will know what I'm talking about because Artest is given that same bad rap.

Avenged
02-01-2011, 06:18 PM
I love how people still act like Cousins is some ticking time bomb ready to explode at anytime inciting a massive Brawl. As a Kings fan I can tell you the notion is ridiculous... he might complain about calls once in a while (he's gotten alot better since the start of the season) but most of the time he just shuts up and runs down the court to avoid any problems. Aside from one locker room incident which no one even knows any details about we haven't had any problems. I can assure you that Cousins "INSANITY" will not destroy him anymore than Kobe or Garnett's attitudes destroy them. At least cousins comes off as a likable guy. Any Laker fan will know what I'm talking about because Artest is given that same bad rap.

So with that said, you would build around Cousins instead of Dwight?

DerekRE_3
02-01-2011, 06:18 PM
I can't believe he picked Cousins with his attitude. There is no way of knowing whether or not that will destroy him. Monroe is so much smarter and a hard worker. I'd take Monroe any day of the week.

Haha. Cousins kills Monroe.

Sox72
02-01-2011, 06:20 PM
Well Durant is a better player across the board, and also a more popular/fan friendly person. So that one's an easy decision.

Westbrook is just as good as Rose (I'm not arguing with you Bulls fans, so don't even waste your time), so let me flip it on you and ask why you would build around Rose but not Westbrook?

Rondo is probably the easiest to build around; you find sharp shooters and big men who finish efficiently at the rim and you're basically guaranteed a playoff team if those same players can play adequate defense.

Excellent! Because you've lost before the argument even began!

SteveNash
02-01-2011, 06:28 PM
Awful list is awful. Just wtf...

godolphins
02-01-2011, 06:41 PM
some of you really need to stop being such trolls and get a life. How i'm I trolling? Just because I said that when I saw that you created this thread I automatically thought that it had to have something to do with Derrick Rose, mainly because your user name is Drosesbulls

John Walls Era
02-01-2011, 07:52 PM
Durant?

forgot, Durant @ 3. Shift everyone

Gators123
02-01-2011, 07:55 PM
LeBron
Dwight
Durant
Griffin
CP3

chicago lulz
02-01-2011, 08:08 PM
Dwight
Griffin
Durant
E Gordon
Rose

Phenomenonsense
02-01-2011, 08:09 PM
Haha. Cousins kills Monroe.

If you say so.

Cousins got 17/8 in January
Monroe got 11/9 in January

Cousins took more shots, averaged 46% FG% to Monroes 60% and Monroe averaged 4 more minutes per game. In January, Cousins took more than twice as many shots to score an average of 6 points more per game.(239 FGA to 108 FGA) Monroe is also doing this on the obviously better team. Cousins is averaging 4 fouls per game on less minutes than Monroe, while Monroe is only averaging 3.

I don't see any area that Cousins "kills" Monroe at. Flashy stuff? Being a headcase? Who knows.

blastmasta26
02-01-2011, 08:11 PM
I can't believe he picked Cousins with his attitude. There is no way of knowing whether or not that will destroy him. Monroe is so much smarter and a hard worker. I'd take Monroe any day of the week.
Homer alert.

ElMarroAfamado
02-01-2011, 08:22 PM
haha at Kevin Love....the guy is getting his numbers dont get me wrong...but Blake Griffin is willing his team to victories every week....he rebounds, scores, gets the crowd involved....hussles...he does everything if you watch him play....

Phenomenonsense
02-01-2011, 08:24 PM
Homer alert.

I refer you to the stats I've posted here already bro. No homer at all, if I knew Cousins had the 'mind' of Monroe, the obviously better player would be Cousins because he's more athletic. He's a gamble in his current form however.

It's actually sad you'd say that by the way, when the stats to back up my claim are directly above you.

blastmasta26
02-01-2011, 08:28 PM
I refer you to the stats I've posted here already bro. No homer at all, if I knew Cousins had the 'mind' of Monroe, the obviously better player would be Cousins because he's more athletic. He's a gamble in his current form however.

It's actually sad you'd say that by the way, when the stats to back up my claim are directly above you.
True, he's a gamble, but he's universally regarded as the higher potential big man. It just sounded like you were being a homer by bringing up Monroe when I didn't even see him in the discussion. It was really between Cousins and Howard.

Phenomenonsense
02-01-2011, 08:31 PM
True, he's a gamble, but he's universally regarded as the higher potential big man. It just sounded like you were being a homer by bringing up Monroe when I didn't even see him in the discussion. It was really between Cousins and Howard.

Cousins is also can't stay on the floor entirely too often. He's averaging 4 PFs per game on like 28 mpg. Not good. I would never take Cousins over Monroe at this point. Monroe will be a great player far past when his athleticism is gone (he doesn't have a lot to begin with), while Cousins will have to learn what Monroe is learning now or simply end his career earlier than he would have to. Monroe understands the game, plays smart, and defends well without getting a lot of fouls.

All that being said, there is no way Howard isn't the best Center to build around.

Baller1
02-01-2011, 08:59 PM
its tougher because of this. Starting a team is finding the guy with the fewest weaknesses. Starting with Rondo means you have to add some of the most important elements in basketball still. Scoring, shooting, etc. Rondo is an ultimate compliment, but I would never have thought to start a team with Jason Kidd for example.

See in my eyes, Rondo is a Nash-type player (without the shooting of course, which I'm aware is a big deal). Give Rondo someone like Korver and say... Nene, neither of which are stars, and he can succeed.

He's incredibly crafty with the basketball, and just has an uncanny knack for setting up his teammates in a great place to score the ball.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'd love to start my team with Rondo.

Baller1
02-01-2011, 09:01 PM
Excellent! Because you've lost before the argument even began!

Sure thing.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2011, 09:04 PM
haha at Kevin Love....the guy is getting his numbers dont get me wrong...but Blake Griffin is willing his team to victories every week....he rebounds, scores, gets the crowd involved....hussles...he does everything if you watch him play....

don't leave out a motivated Baron Davis, Eric Gordon breaking out, and DeAndre Jordan becoming a defensive machine.

THIS YEAR, Love is having a better season individually. And the one thing I have learned about him is to not underrate him. I think Blake obviously has the better future, but are you really haha'ing the future of a 21-16-44%-88%, 22 year old PF? Shame on you

Love does all those things as well, if you watch him play. Sure he can't dunk with his junk, but he can hit 5 bombs on you enroute to a 43-17 night.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2011, 09:06 PM
See in my eyes, Rondo is a Nash-type player (without the shooting of course, which I'm aware is a big deal). Give Rondo someone like Korver and say... Nene, neither of which are stars, and he can succeed.

He's incredibly crafty with the basketball, and just has an uncanny knack for setting up his teammates in a great place to score the ball.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'd love to start my team with Rondo.

When you are trying to "start a team", you pick players with the fewest weaknesses, so you don't have multiple holes to fill. Rondo has more than a handful of other players, its that simple

Baller1
02-01-2011, 09:09 PM
When you are trying to "start a team", you pick players with the fewest weaknesses, so you don't have multiple holes to fill. Rondo has more than a handful of other players, its that simple

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think Rondo's amazing ability to create opportunities for his teammates makes other players better, and therefore making it an easier task to build around. That's the way I look at it.

Swashcuff
02-01-2011, 09:15 PM
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think Rondo's amazing ability to create opportunities for his teammates makes other players better, and therefore making it an easier task to build around. That's the way I look at it.

What evidence is there of this?

Avenged
02-01-2011, 09:16 PM
See in my eyes, Rondo is a Nash-type player (without the shooting of course, which I'm aware is a big deal). Give Rondo someone like Korver and say... Nene, neither of which are stars, and he can succeed.

He's incredibly crafty with the basketball, and just has an uncanny knack for setting up his teammates in a great place to score the ball.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'd love to start my team with Rondo.

I'd rather start it with Westbrook than Rondo to be honest.

Gators123
02-01-2011, 09:17 PM
I'd rather start it with Westbrook than Rondo to be honest.

Agree

Hiphopopotamus
02-01-2011, 09:23 PM
I'd rather start it with Westbrook than Rondo to be honest.

Me too

Baller1
02-01-2011, 09:23 PM
I'd rather start it with Westbrook than Rondo to be honest.

I'm not allowed to say that...

:laugh2:

Baller1
02-01-2011, 09:24 PM
What evidence is there of this?

His 14.5 assists before the injury.

Jpolla3
02-01-2011, 09:26 PM
How people could put wall or Westbrook above rose is beyond me. Westbrook wouldn't be half the player without Durant. Wall can't even win a game on the road. You can however make arguments for d will and cp3 but from the MVP type performance this season at his age the upside is hard to pass up. I think rose has so many haters cause he is humble and not a showboat like most the rest of the NBA superstars.

Draco
02-01-2011, 09:29 PM
Excellent! Because you've lost before the argument even began!

no one has westbrook over rose.. no one except a niche of stat geeks and OKC fans.

Avenged
02-01-2011, 09:30 PM
How people could put wall or Westbrook above rose is beyond me. Westbrook wouldn't be half the player without Durant. Wall can't even win a game on the road. You can however make arguments for d will and cp3 but from the MVP type performance this season at his age the upside is hard to pass up. I think rose has so many haters cause he is humble and not a showboat like most the rest of the NBA superstars.

We're talking 10 years from now.. Not RIGHT NOW.

And I don't really see much hate for Rose outside of the usual suspects.

Draco
02-01-2011, 09:31 PM
How people could put wall or Westbrook above rose is beyond me. Westbrook wouldn't be half the player without Durant. Wall can't even win a game on the road. You can however make arguments for d will and cp3 but from the MVP type performance this season at his age the upside is hard to pass up. I think rose has so many haters cause he is humble and not a showboat like most the rest of the NBA superstars.

it's a psd thing.

Swashcuff
02-01-2011, 09:33 PM
His 14.5 assists before the injury.

That's no evidence to anything quite frankly.

Could you name one player on that team that has been made a better player as a result of Rondo's play?

Swashcuff
02-01-2011, 09:36 PM
I'd rather start it with Westbrook than Rondo to be honest.

The argument started when he said he'd start with Westbrook and Rondo ahead of Melo. I asked him to give reasoning but he just keep giving his opinion.

Starting a franchise going forward. Carmelo Anthony or Russell Westbrook.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2011, 09:36 PM
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think Rondo's amazing ability to create opportunities for his teammates makes other players better, and therefore making it an easier task to build around. That's the way I look at it.

we can debate it further if you like. You can't start a team, with a players whose only strengths are distribution and defense. That player is lacking far too much offensively. Especially a PG.
Players you start franchises with should be able to move from role to role, depending on what is needed. Need a scorer? check. Need a distributor? check. Need a defender? check. You just can't start teams with non-scorers. Its not smart to do, you put way to much pressure on the construction process of the team.
You start with Kidd from 2002, or Rondo from now, and you have the task of now finding players who can score efficiently, which is much harder said than done. Why not get scoring/passing/defensive ability out of the way outright?

Hawkeye15
02-01-2011, 09:38 PM
His 14.5 assists before the injury.

per game, per game.....
Roster strength and huge minutes. Trust me, Rondo is a GREAT distributor. But you know better than to use that stat.

Avenged
02-01-2011, 09:49 PM
The argument started when he said he'd start with Westbrook and Rondo ahead of Melo. I asked him to give reasoning but he just keep giving his opinion.

Starting a franchise going forward. Carmelo Anthony or Russell Westbrook.

I don't see either ever really being a #1 option, so give or take I would say. Russell is only a 3rd year player with plenty of room for improvement. Melo is already an 8 year player and has pretty much established himself as the player he is going to be. Russell is 4 years younger than him as well, so I'd most likely side with him rather than Melo 10 years down the road.

He's a very fast PG who can get to the rim at will, distribute the ball a lot better than Melo, and in his 3rd year in the league is already more efficient than Melo has ever been since he entered the league.

Baller1
02-01-2011, 09:49 PM
we can debate it further if you like. You can't start a team, with a players whose only strengths are distribution and defense. That player is lacking far too much offensively. Especially a PG.
Players you start franchises with should be able to move from role to role, depending on what is needed. Need a scorer? check. Need a distributor? check. Need a defender? check. You just can't start teams with non-scorers. Its not smart to do, you put way to much pressure on the construction process of the team.
You start with Kidd from 2002, or Rondo from now, and you have the task of now finding players who can score efficiently, which is much harder said than done. Why not get scoring/passing/defensive ability out of the way outright?

That's where I disagree; there a lot of players who can score the ball very, very well and aren't necessarily stars (ie. Nene, Odom, Marc Gasol). None of those guys are known as great players in the league, but they can score the ball when given the opportunity. That's where I think Rondo can further portray that for these players.

And then it's not all that hard to find shooters to surround a pass-first PG with. Korver, Ray Ray, Afflalo, Reddick, J-Rich. All these guys would be great players to surround Rondo with, and none would come at a steep price.

This is a hypothetical situation, so it's basically looking at this scenario as a fantasy draft. Therefore, I would have another pick in the "2nd round" to pick up another star/solid player. What do you do? Take a player known for their ability to score (Monta Ellis, Rudy Gay, OJ Mayo).

With all that said, Rondo isn't a bad scorer. He's a bad shooter. There's a huge difference.

Baller1
02-01-2011, 09:51 PM
per game, per game.....
Roster strength and huge minutes. Trust me, Rondo is a GREAT distributor. But you know better than to use that stat.

Of course it's just per game (you and I both know I'm against these stats for the most part).

But, he clearly set himself apart from other distributors in the game (Stockton level). If that doesn't portray incredible passing abilities that not many have, I don't know what does.

Hiphopopotamus
02-01-2011, 10:08 PM
no one has westbrook over rose.. no one except a niche of stat geeks and OKC fans.

True

believeinNYK
02-01-2011, 10:09 PM
My list in order
Dwight Howard
Kevin durant
Blake griffin
Lebron James
Derrick rose

Swashcuff
02-01-2011, 10:12 PM
I don't see either ever really being a #1 option, so give or take I would say. Russell is only a 3rd year player with plenty of room for improvement. Melo is already an 8 year player and has pretty much established himself as the player he is going to be. Russell is 4 years younger than him as well, so I'd most likely side with him rather than Melo 10 years down the road.

He's a very fast PG who can get to the rim at will, distribute the ball a lot better than Melo, and in his 3rd year in the league is already more efficient than Melo has ever been since he entered the league.

OK if we're talking age I'd certainly take Westbrook but as far as a leader and franchise player I'd take Melo any day of the week. He is IMO the better player. Westbrook's style of play will always have him on the possible injury radar.

IMO the determining factor for this is clutch play. Say what you may but STATISTICALLY speaking Melo is the best clutch player in the league. He can take over a game and beat you single handily come clutch time. I'd want that in my franchise player more than anything.

Problem with Melo however is inconsistency and that is what separates him from KD more than anything else IMO.

Baller1
02-01-2011, 10:22 PM
OK if we're talking age I'd certainly take Westbrook but as far as a leader and franchise player I'd take Melo any day of the week. He is IMO the better player. Westbrook's style of play will always have him on the possible injury radar.

IMO the determining factor for this is clutch play. Say what you may but STATISTICALLY speaking Melo is the best clutch player in the league. He can take over a game and beat you single handily come clutch time. I'd want that in my franchise player more than anything.

Problem with Melo however is inconsistency and that is what separates him from KD more than anything else IMO.

Westbrook hasn't missed 1 game in his career.

Melo is definitely amazing in the clutch, but statistically speaking, Westbrook is a top 5 clutch player as well.

KD and Melo isn't even close anymore, Melo only has clutch on him.

Avenged
02-01-2011, 10:23 PM
OK if we're talking age I'd certainly take Westbrook but as far as a leader and franchise player I'd take Melo any day of the week. He is IMO the better player. Westbrook's style of play will always have him on the possible injury radar.

IMO the determining factor for this is clutch play. Say what you may but STATISTICALLY speaking Melo is the best clutch player in the league. He can take over a game and beat you single handily come clutch time. I'd want that in my franchise player more than anything.

Problem with Melo however is inconsistency and that is what separates him from KD more than anything else IMO.

Melo certainly is very clutch, but that isn't the only thing I'd look for when deciding which player i'd rather start a franchise with.

Melo isn't much of a leader anyways, and Westbrook is just developing himself, rather rapidly I may add, to consider him a leader yet. I just think Westbrook can become great, especially with some more years of experience under his belt. What Melo excels at is shooting..

% wise, Westbrook and Melo are already very similar. They hold the same FG%, Westbrook has a higher TS%, but Melo has a higher eFG% by 1 point. Lets not forget that Melo shoots the ball more than him and he's the #1 option out in Denver, whereas Russell has to play behind Durant.

I just value more aspects of the game than just a player who is really, really clutch. If I had to pick who to start a team out of those two, i'd want a speedy PG that's more efficient, a better defender, a better FT shooter, and a much better passer.