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Jonathan2323
01-31-2011, 04:05 PM
Chris Bosh is the better player for Miami, no queston. He's more efficient and compliments Wade/Bron's game more than Amare. Bosh plays better defense and also won't cry about not getting enough shots. For everyone saying Amare would make us better, they don't know much about basketball you're just looking at the stats. Amare is in the right place he wanted to be the #1 option.

SB1
01-31-2011, 04:06 PM
even before, Bosh's opponent counterproduction was a bit better. They honestly offset each other in a player to player comparison. But when factoring in role, you can seperate them. I quite honestly think the Knicks are better with Amare, and the Heat are better off with Bosh.

Agreed!

Crackadalic
01-31-2011, 04:07 PM
yes it would. Leborn and wade are >>>>>>>>>>>>>bosh and amare
bosh and amre would both have made great 3rd options.
only difference is amare would probably be crying about not getting enough shots.

Do you seriously believe its because he wont get enough shots? Amare said so himself if the Suns game him what he wanted he would have stayed in Phoenix.
The reason he take so much shots isnt because he wants too but because he has too

Jonathan2323
01-31-2011, 04:07 PM
Lmao for anyone saying Boozer would have been the better fit. He's undersized and plays ZERO defense. Boozer could not shoot over Bosh in the game we played aganist Chicago. They also would'nt allow him to guard Bosh.

justinnum1
01-31-2011, 04:07 PM
I see ur point but I disagree about Bosh in Ny. Amare has carried us and was playing at an elite level for awhile. And Bosh is great but I doubt he could've carried that load sometimes single handedly.. It's all speculation but I don't see Bosh at center with our lineup.

Dont see how bosh at C is worse than Amare but whatever.

Jonathan2323
01-31-2011, 04:09 PM
The HEAT could have had Amare or Boozer, they picked Bosh for a reason.

justinnum1
01-31-2011, 04:09 PM
Do you seriously believe its because he wont get enough shots? Amare said so himself if the Suns game him what he wanted he would have stayed in Phoenix.
The reason he take so much shots isnt because he wants too but because he has too

He would have went wherever paid him MAX, and NY did, so what are you talking about? I think amare would have a problem only taking 13 shots a game, i would say he can focus on other things, but what else does he do well?

justinnum1
01-31-2011, 04:10 PM
The HEAT could have had Amare or Boozer, they picked Bosh for a reason.

boozer is just too injury prone, no doubt he will be missing a few more games this season.


Every team this summer was basically
bosh
amare





booz

or

amare
bosh





booz

TO to the CHI
01-31-2011, 04:11 PM
Im not trying to talk **** about amare, just trying to let knicks fans know, replace bosh with amare and there wouldn't be much difference. Knicks would have the same record give or take 2 or 3 games.

And to say mimai would be much better with amare is also stupid. Amare takes 20 shots a game to get his 26avg. Bosh gets 13 shots a game and is avg 18pts. thats like identical if they took the same amount of shots. Amare would only get 13 shots in miami, i think he would have a problem not getting so many touches. He wants to be the #1 man(even tho i think he is better as a #2option) so it worked out well, we got bosh and knicks got amare. I hope for the knicks sake, they get a #1 guy, be it melo or someone else.

I tend to agree that Miami would not be much better with Amare.

However, to suggest that Bosh would be just as good on the Knicks is pretty ridiculous. The Knicks roster would not be all that different from the Raptors last year (especially because Felton may not have stepped up if paired with Bosh, that is hard to project), and Amare has definitely had more of an impact as a lead dog than Bosh would or could have had.

SteBO
01-31-2011, 04:13 PM
I think Bosh would put up the same the numbers as Amare in NY, but as far as winning, that could be a different story.

justinnum1
01-31-2011, 04:14 PM
I tend to agree that Miami would not be much better with Amare.

However, to suggest that Bosh would be just as good on the Knicks is pretty ridiculous. The Knicks roster would not be all that different from the Raptors last year (especially because Felton may not have stepped up if paired with Bosh, that is hard to project), and Amare has definitely had more of an impact as a lead dog than Bosh would or could have had.

really? what proof do you have? other than your opinion? Would you not agree the knicks suport cast is better than toronto last season. If so, the knicks should be doing a lot better than they are.

amrare with this season knicks>bosh last season tor
but, amare with this seasons knicks is playing about as well as bosh and the raptors did last season.

Crackadalic
01-31-2011, 04:24 PM
The last 2 mins in a game when lebron and dwade isnt playing well who do you have Bosh or Amare(if on the heat)?

Hawkeye15
01-31-2011, 04:25 PM
not sure how many of you care, but here is what Hollinger had to say before the decision even occured, about the best possible sidekicks for LeBron:


The perfect companion: Chris Bosh
Bosh hits every check mark on the list above. He's an outstanding midrange shooter who would provide a fearsome weapon on the pick-and-pop, something James has never really had in Cleveland. His offensive rebound rate (9.9 percent) was in the top third of power forwards, which is amazing considering how often he played outside. His turnover rate was in the bottom third and his TS% (59.2) was outstanding.





Near-perfect companions: Dirk Nowitzki, Amare Stoudemire, David Lee, Carlos Boozer
The lesson here: Pairing LeBron with a floor-spacing 4 can be really, really effective. We'll start with Nowitzki, the gold standard in this category. Dallas doesn't have the cap space to pursue LeBron, but that doesn't mean they won't try like the dickens with some combo of Erick Dampier's nonguaranteed deal, talented prospect Rodrigue Beaubois and any other goodies ($3 million and a future first-rounder, for instance) they can muster.



If they pulled it off, Dirk and LeBron would make a fearsome pair. Nowitzki doesn't rebound like Bosh does but is an even better outside shooter; and, as with Bosh, Nowitzki has both a low turnover rate and a high TS%.



Stoudemire isn't as good an outside shooter, but he's solid from midrange and otherwise possesses similar qualities as Bosh -- a stellar TS% (61.5), a strong offensive rebound rate and a fairly low rate of turnovers.



Lee and Boozer are birds of a feather when it comes to playing with LeBron -- they both can stick a midrange jumper but their primary value comes in slamming home offensive rebounds and making hard dives to the basket after they set screens. Boozer (59.9) and Lee (58.4) both had strong TS% and low turnover rates, and are good offensive rebounders; one worry, however, is that neither can defend a twig.

b.wyze
01-31-2011, 04:26 PM
I would take Amare over Bosh any day of the week. Although I doubt Amare would have taken a discount to play in MIA

justinnum1
01-31-2011, 04:27 PM
The last 2 mins in a game when lebron and dwade isnt playing well who do you have Bosh or Amare(if on the heat)?

bosh for sure, he can hit the j, attack the basket, and he is great at shooting from the line. PLus he has the nastiest pump fake in the league

PlezPlayDKnicks
01-31-2011, 04:27 PM
The HEAT could have had Amare or Boozer, they picked Bosh for a reason.

Yeah, him and Wade are friends
Miami fans are really overrating Bosh.
He is vital to ur team and he will be important if ur gonna win a chip.
But Bosh isn't a dominant force like most Mia fans make him out to be. I'm not saying its u but most of the fan base is going too far.

SteBO
01-31-2011, 04:27 PM
not sure how many of you care, but here is what Hollinger had to say before the decision even occured, about the best possible sidekicks for LeBron:
I do care and it proves what many of us have been saying throughout this thread.

Hawkeye15
01-31-2011, 04:31 PM
bosh for sure, he can hit the j, attack the basket, and he is great at shooting from the line. PLus he has the nastiest pump fake in the league

according to 82games.com, Bosh has been better previous to this year with late game production. Obviously with LeBron and Wade as takeover machines on his squad, his numbers have dropped. But Bosh has been better over their careers, slightly, in the so called "clutch".

D-Block21-Chito
01-31-2011, 04:34 PM
If the Heat had signed Amar'e they'd be virtually unstoppable. Bosh is a good player, but Amar'e is the most dominant player in the game when it comes to scoring in the paint. And now he has a good mid range game as well. Plus now that he's out of Phoenix he's actually playing some defense. 2 blocks per game is something I don't see Bosh pulling off ever. He's a far more dangerous scorer when on the move compared to Bosh. If the Heat had signed Amar'e they'd be even better basically. Not by leaps and bounds, but definitely better.

This... But it's not worth talking about cause Amare wanted more money instead

nickdymez
01-31-2011, 04:34 PM
this is a perfect example of what i alluded to in my previous post, total lack of knowledge in your post their. You have to resort to insults and baits.

I dont do nerdy internet crap like "bait". I simply state what i feel to be true... Just like you. You may think Bosh is the perfect fit, he's not.

justinnum1
01-31-2011, 04:34 PM
Looking at your sig and avy, it seems like your only going against what im saying because your a heat fan...

more like your talking out your *** and hating just to hate with no facts or stats to back up anything you say. But dont let me stop you...hate away. Quite funny actually.

Flash3
01-31-2011, 04:34 PM
Yeah, him and Wade are friends
Miami fans are really overrating Bosh.
He is vital to ur team and he will be important if ur gonna win a chip.
But Bosh isn't a dominant force like most Mia fans make him out to be. I'm not saying its u but most of the fan base is going too far.

and the whole amare is a top 5 player and mvp isn't ?

SteBO
01-31-2011, 04:35 PM
more like your talking out your *** and hating just to hate with no facts or stats to back up anything you say. But dont let me stop you...hate away. Quite funny actually.
Don't waste your time on trolls.

nickdymez
01-31-2011, 04:36 PM
then please provide some insight on the subject, or posters will continue to treat you like a troll. Cmon man, its not that hard. if you have an opinion, state it, and explain why that is your opinion.

Heat fans treat me like a "troll", not rational basketball fans. Heat fans are the only people that take so much offense to what i say about that team.. Its funny to me..

nickdymez
01-31-2011, 04:36 PM
Look, everyone callin me names and what not are heat fans.... lmao

Swashcuff
01-31-2011, 04:38 PM
lol@ me not knowing what im talking about because im not a heat fan.. Dumbest comment ever.

Dude I am not a Heat fan but you don't see me coming in every thread in which there players are mentioned and start bashing them without any form of factual evidence to state my case. I am a real poster you sir are just a troll.

Don't say they were stupid tell us WHY they were stupid. If you make a good case I will 100% agree with you. Hell I'll put it in my sig even. But you can't because you have no clue what you are talking about.

justinnum1
01-31-2011, 04:39 PM
Don't waste your time on trolls.

he is a funny troll tho, i expect more from our heat haters, that guy couldn't even find facts or stats to backup his bs

Hawkeye15
01-31-2011, 04:40 PM
Heat fans treat me like a "troll", not rational basketball fans. Heat fans are the only people that take so much offense to what i say about that team.. Its funny to me..

eh, not so sure about that. Look man, I have seen some good posts within your constant absolutes, but if you want to be taken seriously, you have to be able to back up your argument. If you are using your eyes only, you will have to forgive others for just moving on when they see a post from you.

Just post WHY you are stating your opinion. Don't just post it and challenge anyone to say otherwise, then call them names or what not

Swashcuff
01-31-2011, 04:40 PM
Heat fans treat me like a "troll", not rational basketball fans. Heat fans are the only people that take so much offense to what i say about that team.. Its funny to me..

I am a rational NONE Heat fan and I say you are a troll. All you do in these threads are troll.

You are a troll. If the fact that people are calling you a troll is funny to you then you sir seriously need to consider getting a life.

nickdymez
01-31-2011, 04:45 PM
eh, not so sure about that. Look man, I have seen some good posts within your constant absolutes, but if you want to be taken seriously, you have to be able to back up your argument. If you are using your eyes only, you will have to forgive others for just moving on when they see a post from you.

Just post WHY you are stating your opinion. Don't just post it and challenge anyone to say otherwise, then call them names or what not

If people see my posts and move on then so be it. Its only heat fans anyway. There can be a thread that says "Lebron is the greatest player of all time". I can come in that thread and so "I dont think so". Immediately heat fans from all over the world come in and call me troll and hater.. lol... I dont need to explain why i dont think something is true. We can go back and forth all day about it.. Wont change any of our opinions. You think Bosh is a better fit than Amare. Ok, thats fine. I dont. I think its obvious that Amare is a better fit than Bosh. But there is no way to really tell who is the best fit. So if you heat fans wanna ignore me, by all means be my guest. I dont ignore Laker haters at all, I love it!!

nickdymez
01-31-2011, 04:46 PM
I am a rational NONE Heat fan and I say you are a troll. All you do in these threads are troll.

You are a troll. If the fact that people are calling you a troll is funny to you then you sir seriously need to consider getting a life.

Ok, you got me, im a troll.. Im going to get a life right now.... brb

LayZbone
01-31-2011, 04:48 PM
Looking at your sig and avy, it seems like your only going against what im saying because your a heat fan...

Dude you're really not one to talk about avatars because yours simply shows what a massive Kobe homer you are. "Three superstars teaming up to beat me. here we go again". Really? 3 superstars to beat just kobe? If you're gonna include Bosh as a superstar then give Pau Gasol some credit man....I mean your team wasn't anything in the post-Shaq era until Pau showed up. Not to mention Odom's play this season. Your team is stacked, but it's easier and funnier to say that 3 superstars are teaming up to beat the great Kobe lol.

It should read: 2 superstars and 1 all-star gearing up to face 1 superstar, 1 all-star, and 2 fringe-stars (Odom/Bynum).

Hawkeye15
01-31-2011, 04:50 PM
If people see my posts and move on then so be it. Its only heat fans anyway. There can be a thread that says "Lebron is the greatest player of all time". I can come in that thread and so "I dont think so". Immediately heat fans from all over the world come in and call me troll and hater.. lol... I dont need to explain why i dont think something is true. We can go back and forth all day about it.. Wont change any of our opinions. You think Bosh is a better fit than Amare. Ok, thats fine. I dont. I think its obvious that Amare is a better fit than Bosh. But there is no way to really tell who is the best fit. So if you heat fans wanna ignore me, by all means be my guest. I dont ignore Laker haters at all, I love it!!

why don't you attempt to provide some reasoning, and explanation for your posts? If you don't feel like doing that, then why are you here? Seriously? Its not for discussion obviously. You are here many times to post a conflicting opinion and then just retort to those who ask why with smart *** answers. We have a term for that here. Its called trolling.

Just attempt to debate subjects. You are dead wrong that people's opinions don't change here. I have grown in basketball knowledge a lot since I joined, simply from getting into with posters who know what they speak of. Give it a try dude, you may get something out of it.

Hawkeye15
01-31-2011, 05:00 PM
get back on topic or I delete all trolling posts please. Thanks guys

Hawkeye15
01-31-2011, 05:03 PM
Stop. Now. Everyone.

h2r09
01-31-2011, 05:03 PM
they would be about the same. amare would be putting up about the same stats, he is just playing for a faster paced team and getting tons of more touches. amare doesnt have the jumper that makes him fit in better that bosh does.

also, you people dont understnd why bosh was chosen. not just because he is a better fit aroudn lebron and wade, he also is like 3 years younger then amare. amare will start to break down at the end of his contract, bosh wont.

justinnum1
01-31-2011, 05:04 PM
Stop. Now. Everyone.

agreed, but its usually the same trolls coming in heat threads and trying to bait heat fans.

bosh and amare are very similar and if you swapped them probably wouldn't be much difference

hugepatsfan
01-31-2011, 05:05 PM
IDK Amare is as good of a fit. I think he needs the offense to run through him more than Bosh does.

nwilder
01-31-2011, 05:06 PM
Yeah, him and Wade are friends
Miami fans are really overrating Bosh.
He is vital to ur team and he will be important if ur gonna win a chip.
But Bosh isn't a dominant force like most Mia fans make him out to be. I'm not saying its u but most of the fan base is going too far.

No one has said Bosh is a DOMINANT force. Show me which Heat fan said that. Heat fans are saying Bosh is the better fit for Miami. That's it. Pat Riley, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade also think the same. It's not a rocket science that Bosh was the 3rd mos sought after free agent last summer. NO ONE wanted Amare over Bosh, NO ONE. Amare, Boozer, and Joe Johnson were the fall back plans of teams if they didn't get LeBron, Wade, or Bosh. If anything Amare is getting overrated. Now he is a knick and all of a sudden he's better.

justinnum1
01-31-2011, 05:07 PM
IDK Amare is as good of a fit. I think he needs the offense to run through him more than Bosh does.

good point

Hawkeye15
01-31-2011, 05:08 PM
agreed, but its usually the same trolls coming in heat threads and trying to bait heat fans.

bosh and amare are very similar and if you swapped them probably wouldn't be much difference

we don't know. They are different personalities. But yes, they are similar players, production wise. I do think Amare is better suited for a #1 role, but I think Bosh is better suited for a #2-3 role. I honestly thing both teams are better off the way they are.

Swashcuff
01-31-2011, 05:08 PM
Question?

Do you guys think the Heat would have been better off with Amar'e starting at C (as he has done this entire season as a Knick and every single time he has made an All-NBA team it has been as a C) and having Haslem (hypothetically speaking lets just say he was healthy) starting at PF?

justinnum1
01-31-2011, 05:09 PM
Question?

Do you guys think the Heat would have been better off with Amar'e starting at C (as he has done this entire season as a Knick and every single time he has made an All-NBA team it has been as a C) and having Haslem (hypothetically speaking lets just say he was healthy) starting at PF?

amare or bosh at center is a fail...they both play much better with a big next to them. And amare just gets abused defensively playing C. Bosh same thing for that matter.

LayZbone
01-31-2011, 05:09 PM
they would be about the same. amare would be putting up about the same stats, he is just playing for a faster paced team and getting tons of more touches. amare doesnt have the jumper that makes him fit in better that bosh does.

also, you people dont understnd why bosh was chosen. not just because he is a better fit aroudn lebron and wade, he also is like 3 years younger then amare. amare will start to break down at the end of his contract, bosh wont.

That's a good point. There are also injury considerations and Amare has had his fair share of those. On top of that, there's the willingness to accept a lesser role, and less money. That's probably the deciding factor.

So to answer the thread....where would the Heat be? It depends on whether the chemistry is there, and Amare is comfortable as the 3rd option. If so, I think he'd be a great fit when only looking at his basketball skills. But even if he's a better b-ball player, which is debatable, it's not by much. So I think Bosh was the safest and best choice overall when considering the other factors.

nickdymez
01-31-2011, 05:09 PM
Ok so the heat want to win a championship like now.. Why not go after someone who is tested and has played for winning teams in the past. Went deep in the playoffs and has performed well? Why go after someone with no playoff experience? Thats the difference and thats why Amare would have been a better fit. To many people try to build teams for the regular season. The heat are gonna be in the post season no matter what.. A playoff tested big is a recipe for success in the NBA. This team isnt being turned over to Bosh ever in life...

justinnum1
01-31-2011, 05:12 PM
Ok so the heat want to win a championship like now.. Why not go after someone who is tested and has played for winning teams in the past. Went deep in the playoffs and has performed well? Why go after someone with no playoff experience? Thats the difference and thats why Amare would have been a better fit. To many people try to build teams for the regular season. The heat are gonna be in the post season no matter what.. A playoff tested big is a recipe for success in the NBA. This team isnt being turned over to Bosh ever in life...

Ask riley that question. He obviously sees something you dont.

Swashcuff
01-31-2011, 05:13 PM
amare or bosh at center is a fail...they both play much better with a big next to them. And amare just gets abused defensively playing C. Bosh same thing for that matter.

Big Z isn't exactly what we'd call a stopper at that end of the floor either. I don't think it really makes you guys that much worst.

Hawkeye15
01-31-2011, 05:13 PM
Ok so the heat want to win a championship like now.. Why not go after someone who is tested and has played for winning teams in the past. Went deep in the playoffs and has performed well? Why go after someone with no playoff experience? Thats the difference and thats why Amare would have been a better fit. To many people try to build teams for the regular season. The heat are gonna be in the post season no matter what.. A playoff tested big is a recipe for success in the NBA. This team isnt being turned over to Bosh ever in life...

well, they also want to attempt to win multiple championships. They may have evaluated Bosh as being the better option, and quite honestly, may have feared that Amare wouldn't take the paycut necessary.

I don't think they planned on Bosh being more than a 3rd option, and thought he would be a better one than Amare, who has always been vocal in his career, and has challenged coaches before.

Just a guess

LayZbone
01-31-2011, 05:13 PM
Ok so the heat want to win a championship like now.. Why not go after someone who is tested and has played for winning teams in the past. Went deep in the playoffs and has performed well? Why go after someone with no playoff experience? Thats the difference and thats why Amare would have been a better fit. To many people try to build teams for the regular season. The heat are gonna be in the post season no matter what.. A playoff tested big is a recipe for success in the NBA. This team isnt being turned over to Bosh ever in life...

But Amare also has something so say about that. He signed with NYK pretty early. Even if you think Amare is a better fit basketball-wise and experience-wise, do you think he would've been okay playing 3rd fiddle to Lebronade?

justinnum1
01-31-2011, 05:14 PM
Big Z isn't exactly what we'd call a stopper at that end of the floor either. I don't think it really makes you guys that much worst.
big z sucks, but bosh needs a big playing next to him. especially agasint a big team. vs the knicks, we can get aways with bosh playing C, but not agasint the real elite teams.

dtmagnet
01-31-2011, 05:14 PM
In Miami still?

Hawkeye15
01-31-2011, 05:16 PM
But Amare also has something so say about that. He signed with NYK pretty early. Even if you think Amare is a better fit basketball-wise and experience-wise, do you think he would've been okay playing 3rd fiddle to Lebronade?

not to mention the pay difference. Bosh is guaranteed $67 million over the next 4, Amare $105 over the next 5.

nickdymez
01-31-2011, 05:17 PM
Ask riley that question. He obviously sees something you dont.

I guess we will see at the end of the season. But honestly, what has riley really done as a GM? Orchestrated the shaq trade (Which i think his laker ties had something to do with that) and this whole Lebron thing, which was planned for a couple years by the players themselves. I like how riley is a genius now..

LayZbone
01-31-2011, 05:17 PM
Big Z isn't exactly what we'd call a stopper at that end of the floor either. I don't think it really makes you guys that much worst.
True. Joel Anthony on the other hand....Great defender, blocks shots, covers ground well, rotates quickly, solid man-on-man defender, sets good screens. But he's undersized, has terrible hands (can't catch), has no touch, and is virtually inept offensively.

footballer2369
01-31-2011, 05:18 PM
Big Z isn't exactly what we'd call a stopper at that end of the floor either. I don't think it really makes you guys that much worst.

Actually Z is a quality post defender in a half court set. He always stays true and keeps his hands up. Plus he adds length. Joel Anthony is also a very good defender. Dampier is a better option than Amare too.

It would also make the team much less deep. With Haslem coming off the bench you know you always have a quality big. Also, interestingly enough, Lebron has played some center this year and done well.

nickdymez
01-31-2011, 05:19 PM
And i think Amares versatility is something the heat could have used being that he can play 5 and 6 effectively.

nwilder
01-31-2011, 05:19 PM
I guess we will see at the end of the season. But honestly, what has riley really done as a GM? Orchestrated the shaq trade (Which i think his laker ties had something to do with that) and this whole Lebron thing, which was planned for a couple years by the players themselves. I like how riley is a genius now..

Good insight. You are a genius.

nwilder
01-31-2011, 05:20 PM
And i think Amares versatility is something the heat could have used being that he can play 5 and 6 effectively.

where is a 6 in basketball:confused:

LayZbone
01-31-2011, 05:20 PM
I guess we will see at the end of the season. But honestly, what has riley really done as a GM? Orchestrated the shaq trade (Which i think his laker ties had something to do with that) and this whole Lebron thing, which was planned for a couple years by the players themselves. I like how riley is a genius now..

He helped bring in Alonzo Mourning and Tim Hardaway to make the Heat instant contenders in the 90s (if it weren't for a certain G.O.A.T. in Chicago). Signed Juwan Howard in his prime to pair with them, but Stern nixed that.

He orchestrated one of the largest trades of all time to get the Heat the rest of their 2006 championship pieces. 5 teams, 13 players. We give up Eddie Jones and a couple fillers, and we get Antoine Walker, James Posey, Jason Williams, and sign Gary Payton. All heavy rotation players on our 2006 championship squad.

I'd say Riley is a pretty good GM.

nickdymez
01-31-2011, 05:21 PM
Actually Z is a quality post defender in a half court set. He always stays true and keeps his hands up. Plus he adds length. Joel Anthony is also a very good defender. Dampier is a better option than Amare too.

It would also make the team much less deep. With Haslem coming off the bench you know you always have a quality big. Also, interestingly enough, Lebron has played some center this year and done well.

What? What game did Lebron come in and play center?

Swashcuff
01-31-2011, 05:22 PM
True. Joel Anthony on the other hand....Great defender, blocks shots, covers ground well, rotates quickly, solid man-on-man defender, sets good screens. But he's undersized, has terrible hands (can't catch), has no touch, and is virtually inept offensively.

Even so he isn't starting. How much worst would a rotation of Amar'e, Haslem, Anthony, Juwan Howard and Big Z be given that Amar'e is starting at C and Joel is his back-up. Either way Haslem doesn't play 30 minutes per so there would still be a lot of times where Amar'e could switch over and play the 4.

nickdymez
01-31-2011, 05:22 PM
He helped bring in Alonzo Mourning and Tim Hardaway to make the Heat instant contenders in the 90s (if it weren't for a certain G.O.A.T. in Chicago). Signed Juwan Howard in his prime to pair with them, but Stern nixed that.

He orchestrated one of the largest trades of all time to get the Heat the rest of their 2006 championship pieces. 5 teams, 13 players. We give up Eddie Jones and a couple fillers, and we get Antoine Walker, James Posey, Jason Williams, and sign Gary Payton. All heavy rotation players on our 2006 championship squad.

I'd say Riley is a pretty good GM.

I think the gonzo and tim thing was more them wanting to play for him as the coach.

PlezPlayDKnicks
01-31-2011, 05:23 PM
and the whole amare is a top 5 player and mvp isn't ?

He's not top 5 or an MVP but he's playing on par with the top players this season. Im not saying some fans are not getting carried away but Amare has been a dominant force from day 1. Amare can dominate any pf in the league. He's done it his whole career. And he's done it longer in a harder conference when the west was really tough.

I'm gonna leave it at this. Amare is a mentally tough Guy. We all know his story and his injury past. He coulda quit or just coast his whole career. Instead he improved his game (rebounding aside) and has become a leader. He's not perfect but he's Ny MVP. I'm not sure if Bosh has that toughness and come playoff time they are gonna need that. I think he's perfect in his role but until he shows up in a series and put his stamp on it he will be considered soft. Gasol had that same label and proved otherwise. Let's see if Bosh can do it.

Swashcuff
01-31-2011, 05:23 PM
And i think Amares versatility is something the heat could have used being that he can play 5 and 6 effectively.

:facepalm:

nickdymez
01-31-2011, 05:24 PM
He's not top 5 or an MVP but he's playing on par with the top players this season. Im not saying some fans are not getting carried away but Amare has been a dominant force from day 1. Amare can dominate any pf in the league. He's done it his whole career. And he's done it longer in a harder conference when the west was really tough.

I'm gonna leave it at this. Amare is a mentally tough Guy. We all know his story and his injury past. He coulda quit or just coast his whole career. Instead he improved his game (rebounding aside) and has become a leader. He's not perfect but he's Ny MVP. I'm not sure if Bosh has that toughness and come playoff time they are gonna need that. I think he's perfect in his role but until he shows up in a series and put his stamp on it he will be considered soft. Gasol had that same label and proved otherwise. Let's see if Bosh can do it.

Thats my whole point.........:clap:

nickdymez
01-31-2011, 05:25 PM
:facepalm:

lol.. 4 and 5.. Whatever

Jonathan2323
01-31-2011, 05:25 PM
:facepalm:

Amare also plays shortstop

Hawkeye15
01-31-2011, 05:26 PM
lol.. 4 and 5.. Whatever

I knew what ya meant ;)

footballer2369
01-31-2011, 05:26 PM
What? What game did Lebron come in and play center?

Most recently, against the Raptors. There have been a few other times, though, too.

nickdymez
01-31-2011, 05:27 PM
Most recently, against the Raptors. There have been a few other times, though, too.

You remember who was on the floor for the heat when this happened? I just dont see this at all..

ATX
01-31-2011, 05:32 PM
I guess we will see at the end of the season. But honestly, what has riley really done as a GM? Orchestrated the shaq trade (Which i think his laker ties had something to do with that) and this whole Lebron thing, which was planned for a couple years by the players themselves. I like how riley is a genius now..

Come one Nickdy...Now your hating on Riley? Trying to discredit him as a GM? A GM who brought Shaq, Payton, Williams, Walker, Posey. Won Miami's first championship in franchise history. He then sets us up for the huge 2010 offseason, while still keeping us in the playoff picture fielding a team as a 5 seed. Then he pulls off the greatest FA class of all time, in convincing Wade to resign, bring in LeBron, and Bosh while resigning Haslem and bring in Mike Miller, while convincing all of them to take below their market value.

Your hatred for Miami is going to far dude. You literaly hate on every aspect of the team, past or present. It's getting absurd. I don't think I've ever seen someone hate on something so much ever here on PSD as how much you hate Miami and their fans.

AI
01-31-2011, 05:33 PM
I think the bigger question would be where would the Cavs be had they traded for Amare instead of Jamison?

Swashcuff
01-31-2011, 05:35 PM
I think the bigger question would be where would the Cavs be had they traded for Amare instead of Jamison?

Yup! And if they won the ship, would LeBron have stayed?

AI
01-31-2011, 05:41 PM
Yup! And if they won the ship, would LeBron have stayed?

I don't know if they would of won but had Amare been signed to an extension King James definitely would of stayed in Cleveland.

PlezPlayDKnicks
01-31-2011, 05:41 PM
not to mention the pay difference. Bosh is guaranteed $67 million over the next 4, Amare $105 over the next 5.

Ur usually on point Hawkeye but I'm not sure about this 1

LayZbone
01-31-2011, 05:41 PM
I think the bigger question would be where would the Cavs be had they traded for Amare instead of Jamison?

Atop of the eastern conference, and there would still be a huge banner of Lebron doing the chalk-toss in Cleveland. But Cleveland's management is pathetic. Different convo for a different day.

TO to the CHI
01-31-2011, 05:42 PM
Yup! And if they won the ship, would LeBron have stayed?

Way too many ifs start to get involved. Starting with, if the Cavs had gotten Amare, would Lebron have tried in the playoffs or would he have still mailed it in against the Celtics?

nickdymez
01-31-2011, 05:43 PM
Most recently, against the Raptors. There have been a few other times, though, too.


Come one Nickdy...Now your hating on Riley? Trying to discredit him as a GM? A GM who brought Shaq, Payton, Williams, Walker, Posey. Won Miami's first championship in franchise history. He then sets us up for the huge 2010 offseason, while still keeping us in the playoff picture fielding a team as a 5 seed. Then he pulls off the greatest FA class of all time, in convincing Wade to resign, bring in LeBron, and Bosh while resigning Haslem and bring in Mike Miller, while convincing all of them to take below their market value.

Your hatred for Miami is going to far dude. You literaly hate on every aspect of the team, past or present. It's getting absurd. I don't think I've ever seen someone hate on something so much ever here on PSD as how much you hate Miami and their fans.

Come on dude, you need to chill out for real. Thats my ****in opinion.. Let me have that please... Thank you

Jewelz0376
01-31-2011, 05:47 PM
Come on dude, you need to chill out for real. Thats my ****in opinion.. Let me have that please... Thank you

You been posting on here long enough..you should have figured out that most of the people on here are so opinionated its pointless to even respond to them

Hawkeye15
01-31-2011, 05:49 PM
Ur usually on point Hawkeye but I'm not sure about this 1

no, its correct. Bosh does have player options to extend, but even the entire life of the contract would be $100 million over 6 years, versus $105 over 5 years for Amare.

TylerSL
01-31-2011, 05:58 PM
Amare is better than Bosh and Boozer. However, Boozer might have been a better fit for the Heat because of chemistry wise. Bosh needs the ball in his hands more than Boozer, but Amare needs the ball in his hands more than Bosh. Amare would be a terrible fit in Miami IMO because Bosh is a much better defender (Bosh's defense has improved alot this year). I am not gonna bash Amare's defense this year because he is in the D'Antoni system (it is aweful, but thats to be expected in that system). Simply, Boozer would have been the best choice, followed by Bosh, then Amare for Miami

footballer2369
01-31-2011, 06:04 PM
You remember who was on the floor for the heat when this happened? I just dont see this at all..

Chalmers, House, Miller/Jones, Howard/Miller, Lebron.

J-Relo
01-31-2011, 06:09 PM
Amare is better than Bosh and Boozer. However, Boozer might have been a better fit for the Heat because of chemistry wise. Bosh needs the ball in his hands more than Boozer, but Amare needs the ball in his hands more than Bosh. Amare would be a terrible fit in Miami IMO because Bosh is a much better defender (Bosh's defense has improved alot this year). I am not gonna bash Amare's defense this year because he is in the D'Antoni system (it is aweful, but thats to be expected in that system). Simply, Boozer would have been the best choice, followed by Bosh, then Amare for Miami

Bosh is younger.

PlezPlayDKnicks
01-31-2011, 06:10 PM
no, its correct. Bosh does have player options to extend, but even the entire life of the contract would be $100 million over 6 years, versus $105 over 5 years for Amare.

I thought Amare's contract was something like 99.7 million over 5 years. I could be wrong. Any links??

Hawkeye15
01-31-2011, 06:13 PM
I thought Amare's contract was something like 99.7 million over 5 years. I could be wrong. Any links??

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

it may be, I winged it in 3 seconds, so I may be off. Point is, Miami gets an extra year out of Bosh for the same money. But really, New York is in a fine position, they can clear space this summer for another big time player anyways, and still have Felton, Fields, Gallo, and Chandler if they play it right

Algmuskrats
01-31-2011, 06:24 PM
Amare is better than Bosh and Boozer. However, Boozer might have been a better fit for the Heat because of chemistry wise. Bosh needs the ball in his hands more than Boozer, but Amare needs the ball in his hands more than Bosh. Amare would be a terrible fit in Miami IMO because Bosh is a much better defender (Bosh's defense has improved alot this year). I am not gonna bash Amare's defense this year because he is in the D'Antoni system (it is aweful, but thats to be expected in that system). Simply, Boozer would have been the best choice, followed by Bosh, then Amare for Miami

I dont know so much if the chemistry would be better due to Lebron, Wade, and Bosh were all best friends before joining the Heat.

Algmuskrats
01-31-2011, 06:25 PM
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

it may be, I winged it in 3 seconds, so I may be off. Point is, Miami gets an extra year out of Bosh for the same money. But really, New York is in a fine position, they can clear space this summer for another big time player anyways, and still have Felton, Fields, Gallo, and Chandler if they play it right

Problem is, it seems like the Knicks are really rushing a trade for Mello.

PlezPlayDKnicks
01-31-2011, 06:33 PM
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

it may be, I winged it in 3 seconds, so I may be off. Point is, Miami gets an extra year out of Bosh for the same money. But really, New York is in a fine position, they can clear space this summer for another big time player anyways, and still have Felton, Fields, Gallo, and Chandler if they play it right

I believe we signed and traded for so we took the full Bird rights hit. I think he didn't want to leave the suns empty handed. Either way its not my money and b4 the season I rathered Amare over Bosh unless Bosh guaranteed Lebron. So if the full life of the contract for Bosh is slightly less player options being picked up it's only a few mil correct.

Hawkeye15
01-31-2011, 06:37 PM
I believe we signed and traded for so we took the full Bird rights hit. I think he didn't want to leave the suns empty handed. Either way its not my money and b4 the season I rathered Amare over Bosh unless Bosh guaranteed Lebron. So if the full life of the contract for Bosh is slightly less player options being picked up it's only a few mil correct.

there is a financial difference, and Miami would have not been able to sign Amare most likely. You did absorb the bird rights for Amare.

"not my money"- can't ever think like that. While you are right, you never want your team to hamstring themselves. That being said, the Knicks have left some openings with decent trade chips and featured cap space anyways.

PlezPlayDKnicks
01-31-2011, 06:42 PM
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

it may be, I winged it in 3 seconds, so I may be off. Point is, Miami gets an extra year out of Bosh for the same money. But really, New York is in a fine position, they can clear space this summer for another big time player anyways, and still have Felton, Fields, Gallo, and Chandler if they play it right

I believe we signed and traded for so we took the full Bird rights hit. I think he didn't want to leave the suns empty handed. Either way its not my money and b4 the season I rathered Amare over Bosh unless Bosh guaranteed Lebron. So if the full life of the contract for Bosh is slightly less player options being picked up it's only a few mil correct.

mdm692
01-31-2011, 07:02 PM
team up amare with wade...dont sigh lebron and with all the extra money you can get yourself some really really great role players now you have a strong team that can compete with celtics and l.a. . . instead you got the big 2.5 and bunch of 3pt shooters celtics will tear them apart

Chronz
01-31-2011, 07:13 PM
Bosh a disappointment? For what hes played better than Amare

Flash3
01-31-2011, 07:13 PM
team up amare with wade...dont sigh lebron and with all the extra money you can get yourself some really really great role players now you have a strong team that can compete with celtics and l.a. . . instead you got the big 2.5 and bunch of 3pt shooters celtics will tear them apart

thats where i stopped reading.

SteBO
01-31-2011, 07:15 PM
team up amare with wade...dont sigh lebron and with all the extra money you can get yourself some really really great role players now you have a strong team that can compete with celtics and l.a. . . instead you got the big 2.5 and bunch of 3pt shooters celtics will tear them apart
:laugh2:

PlezPlayDKnicks
01-31-2011, 07:35 PM
Bosh a disappointment? For what hes played better than Amare

So you believe Amare wouldnt have similar or better success playing with Lebron and Wade. Or do u believe Bosh would have a bigger impact if he replaced Amare on the Knicks. Your a fair well informed poster. Do tell

And I for 1 do not believe he's a disappointment. I'm just not sold on his impact against legitmate championship contenders.

Kashmir13579
01-31-2011, 07:39 PM
NO, if amare is that good then his team should be alot better no ?

same logic: if Bosh is that good then his Toronto teams should've been a lot better, no?

dodie53
01-31-2011, 07:42 PM
i think boozer or dirk is a better fit for wade and lebron

Jonathan2323
01-31-2011, 07:42 PM
same logic: if Bosh is that good then his Toronto teams should've been a lot better, no?

By your logic Kevin Love isn't that good or Blake Griffen. You need a team around you too.

justinnum1
01-31-2011, 07:57 PM
i think boozer or dirk is a better fit for wade and lebron

helllllll no. we would take dirk, but bosh is way better than doozer

knicks4life33
01-31-2011, 08:06 PM
bosh is softtttttttttt . the heat would be alot better

stawka
01-31-2011, 08:31 PM
In Miami

Hawkeye15
01-31-2011, 08:50 PM
Problem is, it seems like the Knicks are really rushing a trade for Mello.

if the Knicks make a rush for Melo, there single offseason goal now turns to 3 things:

Find a defensive center

Get a vet or two that can instill a winning expectation

Fire Mike D and get a coach that gives a crap about defending the ball

Hawkeye15
01-31-2011, 08:53 PM
So you believe Amare wouldnt have similar or better success playing with Lebron and Wade. Or do u believe Bosh would have a bigger impact if he replaced Amare on the Knicks. Your a fair well informed poster. Do tell

And I for 1 do not believe he's a disappointment. I'm just not sold on his impact against legitmate championship contenders.

I can't speak for Chronz, but efficiency wise and impact, Bosh has had a better year. He is more efficient due to less usage (an expected outcome), and fulfilling his role better, as a 3rd option and defender. Amare has a bigger task individually in order for his team to win, but that doesn't mean he is doing a better job at his role than Bosh is at his own role. Quite the opposite actually.

I don't think he thought of swapping them in the slightest. Its all about team need and that is what both are doing.

John Walls Era
01-31-2011, 08:57 PM
bosh is softtttttttttt . the heat would be alot better

How do I block or hide posts? PSD use to have that right?

Evolution23
01-31-2011, 08:59 PM
Amare is the tougher and better player, but bosh is better for Miami because he doesn't have too much presure on himself. He's a "fake tough guy"

baghdadbob
01-31-2011, 09:17 PM
I can't speak for Chronz, but efficiency wise and impact, Bosh has had a better year. He is more efficient due to less usage (an expected outcome), and fulfilling his role better, as a 3rd option and defender. Amare has a bigger task individually in order for his team to win, but that doesn't mean he is doing a better job at his role than Bosh is at his own role. Quite the opposite actually.

I don't think he thought of swapping them in the slightest. Its all about team need and that is what both are doing.

Under this theory the GOAT Back-up Point Guard (Barea) is better than Chris Paul.

Don't be ridiculous, as you point out Amare is carrying the water. Bosh is not.

baghdadbob
01-31-2011, 09:18 PM
Amare is the tougher and better player, but bosh is better for Miami because he doesn't have too much presure on himself. He's a "fake tough guy"

Bosh is better for Miami b/c he is willing to swallow whenever Wade or LeBron tell him to.

LeBron is great for Miami b/c he is willing to swallow whenever Wade tells him to.

Wade f*s all the Hos.

Hawkeye15
01-31-2011, 09:22 PM
Under this theory the GOAT Back-up Point Guard (Barea) is better than Chris Paul.

Don't be ridiculous, as you point out Amare is carrying the water. Bosh is not.

measuring two players in the same role and similar ranking in the elite level is totally different that your scenario.

Bosh is playing his role better than Amare is, and they are both great players. Bosh's offensive rating is finally higher, and we all know he is a better defender. I am not saying I would take Bosh over Amare in other scenarios, but it appears, at game 45, that Miami made the right choice.

baghdadbob
01-31-2011, 09:27 PM
measuring two players in the same role and similar ranking in the elite level is totally different that your scenario.

Bosh is playing his role better than Amare is, and they are both great players. Bosh's offensive rating is finally higher, and we all know he is a better defender. I am not saying I would take Bosh over Amare in other scenarios, but it appears, at game 45, that Miami made the right choice.

Yes, if I need a third wheel for a tri-cycle then Bosh Spice is great. But fact is Bosh Spice is getting his points b/c Wade and LBJ draw the D. he also has the benefit of two great perimeter D players.

Amare scores facing doubles and triples. Amare has no one to help him on D. Again, the analysis might sounds great but the premise is dumb.

fadedmario
01-31-2011, 09:30 PM
Undefeated - Amare is a beast

PlezPlayDKnicks
01-31-2011, 09:31 PM
I can't speak for Chronz, but efficiency wise and impact, Bosh has had a better year. He is more efficient due to less usage (an expected outcome), and fulfilling his role better, as a 3rd option and defender. Amare has a bigger task individually in order for his team to win, but that doesn't mean he is doing a better job at his role than Bosh is at his own role. Quite the opposite actually.

I don't think he thought of swapping them in the slightest. Its all about team need and that is what both are doing.

I'm sure ur on the money statistically but in my opinion being a 3rd option on a team with Lebron and Wade is a much easier task than carrying a young team like the Knicks. Bosh has been an efficient player but he's not a guy who can totally dominate a game. Stats don't lie but when I see Bosh play I see a guy who is superb with Lebron and Wade. Amare stat stuffing aside in this system is a put it on my back vs any1 type of player. Put him with two guys as dominate and I see a better team.

Heat fans may be upset but I think Bosh is more likely to pull a dissappearing act come playoff time than Amare would. IMO
Thanks 4 the debate Hawk

Master Mind
01-31-2011, 09:39 PM
If the Heat had signed Amar'e they'd be virtually unstoppable. Bosh is a good player, but Amar'e is the most dominant player in the game when it comes to scoring in the paint. And now he has a good mid range game as well. Plus now that he's out of Phoenix he's actually playing some defense. 2 blocks per game is something I don't see Bosh pulling off ever. He's a far more dangerous scorer when on the move compared to Bosh. If the Heat had signed Amar'e they'd be even better basically. Not by leaps and bounds, but definitely better.

This.

Flash3
01-31-2011, 09:40 PM
I'm sure ur on the money statistically but in my opinion being a 3rd option on a team with Lebron and Wade is a much easier task than carrying a young team like the Knicks. Bosh has been an efficient player but he's not a guy who can totally dominate a game. Stats don't lie but when I see Bosh play I see a guy who is superb with Lebron and Wade. Amare stat stuffing aside in this system is a put it on my back vs any1 type of player. Put him with two guys as dominate and I see a better team.

Heat fans may be upset but I think Bosh is more likely to pull a dissappearing act come playoff time than Amare would. IMO
Thanks 4 the debate Hawk

idk know if you watched him with raps but he was pretty dominant as 1st option i seriously don't know what amare so far has done that bosh didn't do last year with. the raptors had a better record at this point last year than the knicks i guess we have to see what amare does in the playoffs to pass true judgment.

Chronz
01-31-2011, 11:42 PM
So you believe Amare wouldnt have similar or better success playing with Lebron and Wade.
**** no, maybe offensively he prolly compliments them better but from day1 Miami wanted to establish a defensive culture and I have never seen Amare display the kind of defense Bosh has, EVER. Even when Bosh was having horrible years defensively you knew he had a knack for contesting and recovering while playing good defense in isolation sets. He showed us in the Olympics that he could play inspired defense so long as he didnt have to anchor the whole thing or play primarily in the post and could stick to playing the 4. What he lacked was the bulk to play in the paint, a weakness exasperated by the fact that his frontcourt mate was one of the worst defenders in the league. Amares strengths defensively were that he was a better all around defender with the size the man the 5 from time to time, but not one with the skillset you could scheme around.


Or do u believe Bosh would have a bigger impact if he replaced Amare on the Knicks. Your a fair well informed poster. Do tell
Same, Amare hasnt handled the load of solo scorer too well IMO. To be honest this thread is so *** backward that I may have overstated my case because neither one is really much better than the other, so to call out Bosh was absurd. Hes doing just as good if not better than Amare. Put Amare on the Heat and he does have the potential to be more explosive offensively and that fact could negate any defensive advantage Bosh has. But I like the defensive mindset Miami has and Bosh is a big part of that.


And I for 1 do not believe he's a disappointment. I'm just not sold on his impact against legitmate championship contenders.
The same could be said for Amare

Evolution23
01-31-2011, 11:59 PM
idk know if you watched him with raps but he was pretty dominant as 1st option i seriously don't know what amare so far has done that bosh didn't do last year with. the raptors had a better record at this point last year than the knicks i guess we have to see what amare does in the playoffs to pass true judgment.

We've seen what Bosh has done in the playoffs, and we've seen what Amare has done also. There really is no debate that Amare is the better player because he can carry a team without much help. Bosh had a lot of good players beside him and he still couldn't make the playoffs. Also I have to question his heart when he had a chance to come back froma injury, he chose to sit it out and it caused the Raptors from making the playoffs. On the other hand Amare was the best player in the 2nd half of the 2009-2010 season and led the suns to the western conference finals along with Nash.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2011, 12:15 AM
Yes, if I need a third wheel for a tri-cycle then Bosh Spice is great. But fact is Bosh Spice is getting his points b/c Wade and LBJ draw the D. he also has the benefit of two great perimeter D players.

Amare scores facing doubles and triples. Amare has no one to help him on D. Again, the analysis might sounds great but the premise is dumb.

well you played your bias hand. No worth debating you. It would be like a republican debating a democrat. You are bias in regards to both Bosh and Amare, or their teams, not sure which, don't really care.

nickdymez
02-01-2011, 01:35 AM
Bag made a good post. Not sure why you dismissed him@ hawk

kobe24>lebron23
02-01-2011, 03:38 AM
They would be worse, Bosh is underrated by many and he's better player than Amare.

No no no no no

PlezPlayDKnicks
02-01-2011, 10:41 AM
I guess nobody has seen Amare in the postseason. He was dominant without having the great midrange he has now. And this was done out west with superior competition compared to the weak east. Bosh in the playoffs was ok. Numbers will be posted shortly

Swashcuff
02-01-2011, 10:47 AM
I guess nobody has seen Amare in the postseason. He was dominant AT TIMES without having the IMPROVED midrange he has now. And this was done out west with superior competition compared to the weak east. Bosh in the playoffs was ok. Numbers will be posted shortly

Fixed!


Amar'e's midrange is far from "great" Dirk's is great Amar'e's is OK.

Chi StateOfMind
02-01-2011, 11:09 AM
I dont get how they wouldn't be better Amare is a BEAST i can't even put Bosh in the same sentence even breath......bosh is SOFTTTTTT he gets banged boozer would of been a little better but amare would have shined in miami but thats MY voice

Hawkeye15
02-01-2011, 11:16 AM
I guess nobody has seen Amare in the postseason. He was dominant without having the great midrange he has now. And this was done out west with superior competition compared to the weak east. Bosh in the playoffs was ok. Numbers will be posted shortly

yeah, I think my first post in this thread mentioned this. The biggest reason I could see making a case for Amare is his proven beast play in the postseason, even against tougher competition

nickdymez
02-01-2011, 11:58 AM
yeah, I think my first post in this thread mentioned this. The biggest reason I could see making a case for Amare is his proven beast play in the postseason, even against tougher competition

I made the exact same post and was called a hater

SteBO
02-01-2011, 12:10 PM
yeah, I think my first post in this thread mentioned this. The biggest reason I could see making a case for Amare is his proven beast play in the postseason, even against tougher competition
It's all about how the pieces mesh as a unit. I'm actually in the majority that say amare is the better player, not that much better, bt better nonetheless. However, Amare wouldn't do what he's doing now in NY, in Miami. It just wouldn't happen. Bosh accepts third wheel, but Amare. That's a completely different story.

Flash3
02-01-2011, 12:15 PM
We've seen what Bosh has done in the playoffs, and we've seen what Amare has done also. There really is no debate that Amare is the better player because he can carry a team without much help. Bosh had a lot of good players beside him and he still couldn't make the playoffs. Also I have to question his heart when he had a chance to come back froma injury, he chose to sit it out and it caused the Raptors from making the playoffs. On the other hand Amare was the best player in the 2nd half of the 2009-2010 season and led the suns to the western conference finals along with Nash.

jack ? calderon ? tj ford ? bargnani :confused:

Flash3
02-01-2011, 12:16 PM
I dont get how they wouldn't be better Amare is a BEAST i can't even put Bosh in the same sentence even breath......bosh is SOFTTTTTT he gets banged boozer would of been a little better but amare would have shined in miami but thats MY voice

boozer isn't as good as bosh nor amare

Hawkeye15
02-01-2011, 12:17 PM
It's all about how the pieces mesh as a unit. I'm actually in the majority that say amare is the better player, not that much better, bt better nonetheless. However, Amare wouldn't do what he's doing now in NY, in Miami. It just wouldn't happen. Bosh accepts third wheel, but Amare. That's a completely different story.

I covered all this as well, and I am in agreement.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2011, 12:18 PM
I made the exact same post and was called a hater

its how you present it, and the Heat fans know I am an unbiased poster when it comes to their team. They have a shorter fuse with you dude.

Flash3
02-01-2011, 12:19 PM
i'm not saying bosh is better but amare hasn't proven he can lead a team any better so far.

Hawkize31
02-01-2011, 12:30 PM
I think they'd still be in Miami wither way. Thread answered.

PlezPlayDKnicks
02-01-2011, 12:40 PM
It's no insult to Bosh. I just see a guy who dominated inferior comp and holds his own vs elite comp. Amare dominates both a little bit more often because he is the more aggressive player. He has a killer instinct on offense and on defense ONLY when he wants to. Bosh is easily more consistent on defense. He plays smarter in that aspect.
U put Amare's aggressive nature in Bosh and he's easily the better player. He's a great finesse guy who's getting tougher by playing with Lbj and Wade. IMO

ATX
02-01-2011, 12:41 PM
its how you present it, and the Heat fans know I am an unbiased poster when it comes to their team. They have a shorter fuse with you dude.

Truth

I love reading Hawkeye15's posts, knowing I'm probably going to learn something and gain some perspective. However when I see a post from Nickdymez, I just can't take it seriously, since I know what a gigantic Heat hater he is.

I know that I post here in defense of the Heat a lot, and am admittedly a homer, but you won't find me hating up other teams, as so many do towards the Heat. I try and remain as unbiased as possible when it comes to other topics involving other teams. Plus when it comes to the Heat, though I'm a homer, I find that I feel compelled to post in defense due to the naive and immature (To say the least) comments that are made in regards to Heat related topics.

SportsAndrew25
02-01-2011, 02:38 PM
It does not matter at this point. The Heat are rolling now and just beat a good OKC team this Sunday.

nickdymez
02-01-2011, 03:19 PM
its how you present it, and the Heat fans know I am an unbiased poster when it comes to their team. They have a shorter fuse with you dude.


Thats silly... but whatever... A good point is a good point.. No matter who brings it up

justinnum1
02-01-2011, 03:25 PM
Truth

I love reading Hawkeye15's posts, knowing I'm probably going to learn something and gain some perspective. However when I see a post from Nickdymez, I just can't take it seriously, since I know what a gigantic Heat hater he is.

I know that I post here in defense of the Heat a lot, and am admittedly a homer, but you won't find me hating up other teams, as so many do towards the Heat. I try and remain as unbiased as possible when it comes to other topics involving other teams. Plus when it comes to the Heat, though I'm a homer, I find that I feel compelled to post in defense due to the naive and immature (To say the least) comments that are made in regards to Heat related topics.

well said

AddiX
02-01-2011, 03:25 PM
Without Wade and Bron, Bosh is a career loser.

nickdymez
02-01-2011, 04:54 PM
Truth

I love reading Hawkeye15's posts, knowing I'm probably going to learn something and gain some perspective. However when I see a post from Nickdymez, I just can't take it seriously, since I know what a gigantic Heat hater he is.

I know that I post here in defense of the Heat a lot, and am admittedly a homer, but you won't find me hating up other teams, as so many do towards the Heat. I try and remain as unbiased as possible when it comes to other topics involving other teams. Plus when it comes to the Heat, though I'm a homer, I find that I feel compelled to post in defense due to the naive and immature (To say the least) comments that are made in regards to Heat related topics.

You know i love reading things like this from people. Just shows me how one sided the thinking is here. So its ok for me to read constant heat love and praise. Thats fine, but when i say things like "I dont think the heat are the team to beat", Im labeled a hater. I dont even get mad at this guys insults to me. Its laughable. Im a Laker fan, I think the yankees are the only other pro team that gets as much hate. Yet for some reason i dont seem to get nearly as upset at the comments. The endless "kobe isnt clutch" threads and "should the lakers panic" threads are just laughable. I let wins and answer all those questions. I dont cry about it, i dont complain. I laugh. People hating on my team is part of sports. You can be a cry baby all you want. Know im over here laughing at you.

StriveGreatness
02-01-2011, 05:00 PM
Bosh is really soft. Amare will at least scrap a little. Bosh got called out by Durant. You know they guy who weighs 120 lbs soaking wet? Amare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bosh Wait, I think I forgot one, >.

SteBO
02-01-2011, 05:02 PM
Bosh is really soft. Amare will at least scrap a little. Bosh got called out by Durant. You know they guy who weighs 120 lbs soaking wet? Amare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bosh Wait, I think I forgot one, >.
Has nothing to do with it.

TO to the CHI
02-01-2011, 05:05 PM
Has nothing to do with it.

Talent and aggressiveness have nothing to do with it? I am confused.

If you want to disagree with the notion that Amare would be a better fit, I can understand. But your post makes no sense.

Bornknick73
02-01-2011, 05:09 PM
i'm not saying bosh is better but amare hasn't proven he can lead a team any better so far.

Thats a joke right? Amar'e as we are finding out is a better leader then all the players in this discussion combined.

d nuggets fan
02-01-2011, 05:10 PM
Doesn't seem like Amare's strengths match well with Wade and Lebron. He matches with a point in the high picandroll. Don;t see that a good match here. And Amare would have to play D in Miami - can't really seeing his olaying sitting well with Wade and Lebron.

justinnum1
02-01-2011, 05:13 PM
Thats a joke right? Amar'e as we are finding out is a better leader then all the players in this discussion combined.

really? :confused: please elaborate...

beasted86
02-01-2011, 05:17 PM
Can anyone explain to me why Amare is better than Bosh?

2011 Amare Stoudemire:
37.2 MIN, 26.2 PPG, 8.8 REB, 50.1% FG, 2.7 AST, 2.2 BLK (before break)
Knicks Record: 25-22 (6th seed) "Currently" before All-star Break

2010 Chris Bosh:
36.2 MIN, 24.4 PPG, 11.5 REB, 52.5% FG, 2.3 AST, 1.0 BLK (before break)
Raptors Record: 29-23 (5th seed) before All-star Break

Okay so... what is it that makes Amare better than Bosh? the 1.8 more PPG on more minutes? the 1.2 more blocks in a faster pace? the worse rebounding? the worse FG%? the worse record? Or is it simply because he plays for the Knicks, and now that Bosh plays for the Heat he's easy to hate?

By these stats and given the team's records, I honestly can't see what makes Stat better than Bosh. Maybe he's more fun to watch in NY than watching the Raptors, but that's about it.

Flash3
02-01-2011, 05:35 PM
Thats a joke right? Amar'e as we are finding out is a better leader then all the players in this discussion combined.

i said leading a team as #1 option... derick fisher is a leader but he wont do anything if he's the best player on a team

ATX
02-01-2011, 05:35 PM
You know i love reading things like this from people. Just shows me how one sided the thinking is here. So its ok for me to read constant heat love and praise. Thats fine, but when i say things like "I dont think the heat are the team to beat", Im labeled a hater. I dont even get mad at this guys insults to me. Its laughable. Im a Laker fan, I think the yankees are the only other pro team that gets as much hate. Yet for some reason i dont seem to get nearly as upset at the comments. The endless "kobe isnt clutch" threads and "should the lakers panic" threads are just laughable. I let wins and answer all those questions. I dont cry about it, i dont complain. I laugh. People hating on my team is part of sports. You can be a cry baby all you want. Know im over here laughing at you.

Dude, you are severly underestimating your post history here. You talk so much crap about the Heat it's just absurd. Do you see me trolling the NBA forum Laker threads? Do you? I should just put you on my ignore list, truthfully. You never have anything to add, except for hate comments. You constantly troll the NBA forum to bait Heat fans. I have nothing but respect for Kobe...Find me any post where I have bashed him...Or the Lakers for that matter? I respect the defending 2 time champs. I, as a die hard Heat fan, am excited as hell about the new team, and enjoy coming to this site to read news. It's sickening to me to have to read Heat related threads and see all your many moronic posts that just serve to inflame. You post almost solely just to get a rise out of people. You are a disruption to PSD, and You derail every single thread about the Heat. Anywhere and everywhere you can get a immature jab in you do. You live to hate the Heat, and it just goes way to far with you. Your worse than just about all the trolling Bulls fans on here.

Flash3
02-01-2011, 05:37 PM
Can anyone explain to me why Amare is better than Bosh?

2011 Amare Stoudemire:
37.2 MIN, 26.2 PPG, 8.8 REB, 50.1% FG, 2.7 AST, 2.2 BLK (before break)
Knicks Record: 25-22 (6th seed) "Currently" before All-star Break

2010 Chris Bosh:
36.2 MIN, 24.4 PPG, 11.5 REB, 52.5% FG, 2.3 AST, 1.0 BLK (before break)
Raptors Record: 29-23 (5th seed) before All-star Break

Okay so... what is it that makes Amare better than Bosh? the 1.8 more PPG on more minutes? the 1.2 more blocks in a faster pace? the worse rebounding? the worse FG%? the worse record? Or is it simply because he plays for the Knicks, and now that Bosh plays for the Heat he's easy to hate?

By these stats and given the team's records, I honestly can't see what makes Stat better than Bosh. Maybe he's more fun to watch in NY than watching the Raptors, but that's about it.

Thank you i knew last years raptors team was better at this point if it was'nt for the unfortunate injuries they would have made the playoffs.

keep in my mind bosh had much less than amare does now.

nickdymez
02-01-2011, 05:41 PM
Dude, you are severly underestimating your post history here. You talk so much crap about the Heat it's just absurd. Do you see me trolling the NBA forum Laker threads? Do you? I should just put you on my ignore list, truthfully. You never have anything to add, except for hate comments. You constantly troll the NBA forum to bait Heat fans. I have nothing but respect for Kobe...Find me any post where I have bashed him...Or the Lakers for that matter? I respect the defending 2 time champs. I, as a die hard Heat fan, am excited as hell about the new team, and enjoy coming to this site to read news. It's sickening to me to have to read Heat related threads and see all your many moronic posts that just serve to inflame. You post almost solely just to get a rise out of people. You are a disruption to PSD, and You derail every single thread about the Heat. Anywhere and everywhere you can get a immature jab in you do. You live to hate the Heat, and it just goes way to far with you. Your worse than just about all the trolling Bulls fans on here.

Ignore me then.. Never seen someone take offence to **** talking in sports. Especially when he doesnt even play. Nice seeing you. And by the way, look at my stats. I open true basketball threads, respond in other threads not involving the heat, and rarely go in laker hate threads. Your just butt hurt...

SteBO
02-01-2011, 05:42 PM
Thank you i knew last years raptors team was better at this point if it was'nt for the unfortunate injuries they would have made the playoffs.

keep in my mind bosh had much less than amare does now.
Your last sentence is what everyone else on here seems to leave out. Bosh hasn't played with a point guard anywhere near as good as Felton.

SteBO
02-01-2011, 05:45 PM
Ignore me then.. Never seen someone take offence to **** talking in sports. Especially when he doesnt even play. Nice seeing you. And by the way, look at my stats. I open true basketball threads, respond in other threads not involving the heat, and rarely go in laker hate threads. Your just butt hurt...
Are you even reading what he's saying? He isn't hating on you, whether you believe that or not. He's just saying that if you aren't sold on Miami, then give real reasons why you think so and we'll go from there. That way we can have intelligent discussions, and maybe come to some sort of agreement. You're entitled to your opinion, bt don't attack other fans. It's classless, and I know you're better than that.

footballer2369
02-01-2011, 05:48 PM
Thank you, Beasted. \thread

ATX
02-01-2011, 05:49 PM
Are you even reading what he's saying? He isn't hating on you, whether you believe that or not. He's just saying that if you aren't sold on Miami, then give real reasons why you think so and we'll go from there. That way we can have intelligent discussions, and maybe come to some sort of agreement. You're entitled to your opinion, bt don't attack other fans. It's classless, and I know you're better than that.

Thank you Stebo. This is exactly my point.

Flash3
02-01-2011, 05:50 PM
Your last sentence is what everyone else on here seems to leave out. Bosh hasn't played with a point guard anywhere near as good as Felton.

chandler > hedo

fields > derozan ( as a rookie )

only thing the raptors had going was bargnani and that isn't much since he cant play D or rebound.

Flash3
02-01-2011, 05:50 PM
i'm actually surprised they won that much games

mjqusoldier
02-01-2011, 05:55 PM
The Heat would probably be undefeated. Amare is much better than Bosh and he isnt soft like Bosh. He is a much better leader and can bang in the paint as where Bosh is allergic to paint. Amare is also a pimp and is said to be in relations with Amber Rose and Bosh likes Men as you can tell by his gay body language lol.

Afridi786
02-01-2011, 06:49 PM
Bosh would be in a dark room somewhere weeping.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2011, 06:52 PM
why does it continue to boil down to who is better, flat out? That isn't what this thread is asking. Its asking about roles for the Heat PF, and who would be better in that role.

SteBO
02-01-2011, 06:56 PM
Nice rant.

I don't think any Heat fan here has said that Bosh is the best PF in the NBA. :confused:

Talk about dodging the filter. This is EXACTLY the kind of hate post that I've been talking about. There are better ways to express yourself.
I was waiting for someone to respond to that ridiculous post. Thanks ATX. As Hawkeye said above me, the thread is about who, between Bosh and Amare, would best fit the PF role with Wade and James. I don't see why this is so hard to comprehend.

CHANGO
02-01-2011, 06:56 PM
:sigh: ATX :hi5: SIG!:clap:

Hawkeye15
02-01-2011, 07:01 PM
I will post it again. Hollingers statistical evaluation of who the best sidekick to LeBron is.


The perfect companion: Chris Bosh
Bosh hits every check mark on the list above. He's an outstanding midrange shooter who would provide a fearsome weapon on the pick-and-pop, something James has never really had in Cleveland. His offensive rebound rate (9.9 percent) was in the top third of power forwards, which is amazing considering how often he played outside. His turnover rate was in the bottom third and his TS% (59.2) was outstanding.




Near-perfect companions: Dirk Nowitzki, Amare Stoudemire, David Lee, Carlos Boozer
The lesson here: Pairing LeBron with a floor-spacing 4 can be really, really effective. We'll start with Nowitzki, the gold standard in this category. Dallas doesn't have the cap space to pursue LeBron, but that doesn't mean they won't try like the dickens with some combo of Erick Dampier's nonguaranteed deal, talented prospect Rodrigue Beaubois and any other goodies ($3 million and a future first-rounder, for instance) they can muster.



If they pulled it off, Dirk and LeBron would make a fearsome pair. Nowitzki doesn't rebound like Bosh does but is an even better outside shooter; and, as with Bosh, Nowitzki has both a low turnover rate and a high TS%.



Stoudemire isn't as good an outside shooter, but he's solid from midrange and otherwise possesses similar qualities as Bosh -- a stellar TS% (61.5), a strong offensive rebound rate and a fairly low rate of turnovers.



Lee and Boozer are birds of a feather when it comes to playing with LeBron -- they both can stick a midrange jumper but their primary value comes in slamming home offensive rebounds and making hard dives to the basket after they set screens. Boozer (59.9) and Lee (58.4) both had strong TS% and low turnover rates, and are good offensive rebounders; one worry, however, is that neither can defend a twig.

ATX
02-01-2011, 07:04 PM
Simple. Bosh was willing to take less, and wanted to live in Miami and play with his freinds. He is a perfect number 3 option for us. Amare may be bigger and more dominant granted, but that doesn't mean he's light years better than Bosh. Their games are different. Many Heat fans wanted Amare, no one is taking anything away from him or his game. If he would have taken on the role here that was needed, it might have worked, but he wanted to be the max player guy. He's doing great in NY and everything seems to be working out for him there. Bosh is good for this team, clearing out the lane with his great mid range game, leaving driving lanes for our slashers Wade and Bron. If Amare came to Miami he obviously would have to share the limelight with 2 other superstars, and he wanted to be THE superstar. Nothing wrong with that. He's a great player, no one is saying he's not. We can speculate all day long on "If Bosh was in NY, or if Amare was in Miami". What's the point? NY fans are happy and Miami fans are happy with who we got to be our 3rd guy. Can we stop with all the hate?

baghdadbob
02-01-2011, 07:19 PM
Simple. Bosh was willing to take less, and wanted to live in Miami and play with his freinds. He is a perfect number 3 option for us. Amare may be bigger and more dominant granted, but that doesn't mean he's light years better than Bosh. Their games are different. Many Heat fans wanted Amare, no one is taking anything away from him or his game. If he would have taken on the role here that was needed, it might have worked, but he wanted to be the max player guy. He's doing great in NY and everything seems to be working out for him there. Bosh is good for this team, clearing out the lane with his great mid range game, leaving driving lanes for our slashers Wade and Bron. If Amare came to Miami he obviously would have to share the limelight with 2 other superstars, and he wanted to be THE superstar. Nothing wrong with that. He's a great player, no one is saying he's not. We can speculate all day long on "If Bosh was in NY, or if Amare was in Miami". What's the point? NY fans are happy and Miami fans are happy with who we got to be our 3rd guy. Can we stop with all the hate?

No.

ATX
02-01-2011, 07:27 PM
No.

Good post. Thanks for the insight....Though I am not by any means asking you to elaborate. It is clear that you are just a hater, and lack any objectivity.

nwilder
02-01-2011, 07:32 PM
Chis Bosh and it cannot be a question. Amare wouldn't gel with LeBron and Wade. Amare is pretty ineffective when the offense doesn't run through him. Bosh has found the niche nicely and putting up nearly his career avg numbers despite being the 3rd option. And he's a happy man in Miami who doesn't create locker room troubles. Amare has a different personality. I doubt he would be satisfied as the 3rd wheel. Period.

blastmasta26
02-01-2011, 07:34 PM
Chis Bosh and it cannot be a question. Amare wouldn't gel with LeBron and Wade. Amare is pretty ineffective when the offense doesn't run through him. Bosh has found the niche nicely and putting up nearly his career avg numbers despite being the 3rd option. And he's a happy man in Miami who doesn't create locker room troubles. Amare has a different personality. I doubt he would be satisfied as the 3rd wheel. Period.
I agree. Amar'e is a better fit in NY, Bosh is a better fit in Miami. It really worked out the way it was supposed to.

llemon
02-01-2011, 07:44 PM
Gotta go with the obvious.

Cats sleeping with dogs

baghdadbob
02-01-2011, 08:09 PM
Good post. Thanks for the insight....Though I am not by any means asking you to elaborate. It is clear that you are just a hater, and lack any objectivity.

I am very objective, Chris Bosh is not a lead dog. He is a follower. Like LeBron.

The fact they both went to Miami to play for DWade is perfect for them and Miami.

DWade's dogs wear his leashes so when he jerked them south ....

But let me pose an alternative ..... Wade + Amar'e + Felton + Tyson Chandler is better than what you have right now and would have cost you about as much as you gave up this summer.

SteBO
02-01-2011, 08:12 PM
I am very objective, Chris Bosh is not a lead dog. He is a follower. Like LeBron.

The fact they both went to Miami to play for DWade is perfect for them and Miami.

DWade's dogs wear his leashes so when he jerked them south ....

But let me pose an alternative ..... Wade + Amar'e + Felton + Tyson Chandler is better than what you have right now and would have cost you about as much as you gave up this summer.
:facepalm: Does anyone else see something wrong with this?

colinskik
02-01-2011, 08:12 PM
Just think about running a pick and roll with Lebron and Amare ... unstoppable.

I think the better question then is "Where would the Knicks be if Lebron signed here."

jUst joking, i don;t want the thread to go there, but those two together would be beast mode.

SteBO
02-01-2011, 08:13 PM
Just think about running a pick and roll with Lebron and Amare ... unstoppable.

I think the better question then is "Where would the Knicks be if Lebron signed here."

jUst joking, i don;t want the thread to go there, but those two together would be beast mode.
I can agree with this.

baghdadbob
02-01-2011, 08:16 PM
:facepalm: Does anyone else see something wrong with this?

No, why?

Fact that it is good logic?

Miami gave up like 5 number 1 picks this summer. They could have easily gotten Chandler from Dallas, signed Felton and Amar'e. Put in Miller ....

Chandler
Amar'e
Miller
Felton
DWade

..... better playoff team than what you have now.

nwilder
02-01-2011, 08:34 PM
No, why?

Fact that it is good logic?

Miami gave up like 5 number 1 picks this summer. They could have easily gotten Chandler from Dallas, signed Felton and Amar'e. Put in Miller ....

Chandler
Amar'e
Miller
Felton
DWade

..... better playoff team than what you have now.


NO. You are wrong. You don't say no when the world's best player wants to be on your team who's in his prime and only 25 years old. PERIOD.

ball4reel
02-01-2011, 08:37 PM
i'm actually surprised they won that much games

Also remember the east was weaker last year, Not making excuses. Bosh Did his thing last yr with the raptors.But with all the moves made this yr its hard to compare 2 players in different yrs

baghdadbob
02-01-2011, 08:41 PM
NO. You are wrong. You don't say no when the world's best player wants to be on your team who's in his prime and only 25 years old. PERIOD.

We will see how many Miami wins with what they got.

justinnum1
02-01-2011, 08:44 PM
No, why?

Fact that it is good logic?

Miami gave up like 5 number 1 picks this summer. They could have easily gotten Chandler from Dallas, signed Felton and Amar'e. Put in Miller ....

Chandler
Amar'e
Miller
Felton
DWade

..... better playoff team than what you have now.

:facepalm: felton sucks. and amare knees arent lasting more than a year or 2 and that team might be better for this year, but miami is thinking long term

footballer2369
02-01-2011, 08:45 PM
Bosh>Amare. Beasted's post needed to be the last post of this thread.

justinnum1
02-01-2011, 08:47 PM
Just think about running a pick and roll with Lebron and Amare ... unstoppable.

I think the better question then is "Where would the Knicks be if Lebron signed here."

jUst joking, i don;t want the thread to go there, but those two together would be beast mode.

oh well

nwilder
02-01-2011, 08:49 PM
We will see how many Miami wins with what they got.

Sure. You NEVER let the chance go when you have it to grab the best player on the planet.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2011, 08:49 PM
Just think about running a pick and roll with Lebron and Amare ... unstoppable.

I think the better question then is "Where would the Knicks be if Lebron signed here."

jUst joking, i don;t want the thread to go there, but those two together would be beast mode.

2009-10 data on pick and rolls

Amare- 1.21 Points Per Shot (#18 in the NBA)

Bosh- 1.24 PPS (15 in the NBA)


Now lets compare who their primary ball handlers were, and it adds up to the claim that Amare being a better PnR player being totally false. Elite? Oh year. But Bosh was even better

meloman1592
02-01-2011, 08:53 PM
amare is the best player....boozer would have been the best fit out of the 3 though(bosh,booz,STAT)

nwilder
02-01-2011, 08:55 PM
2009-10 data on pick and rolls

Amare- 1.21 Points Per Shot (#18 in the NBA)

Bosh- 1.24 PPS (15 in the NBA)


Now lets compare who their primary ball handlers were, and it adds up to the claim that Amare being a better PnR player being totally false. Elite? Oh year. But Bosh was even better

Nice find and breakdown. Your posts are amazing.

John Walls Era
02-01-2011, 08:57 PM
Also remember the east was weaker last year, Not making excuses. Bosh Did his thing last yr with the raptors.But with all the moves made this yr its hard to compare 2 players in different yrs

East might be stronger in terms of the top 3 teams, but making the playoffs is easier this year. Giving 7th and 8th seed the benefit of the doubt [that they will go .500 the rest of the way], we will potentially see a team that is 34-48 make the playoffs.

justinnum1
02-01-2011, 09:01 PM
2009-10 data on pick and rolls

Amare- 1.21 Points Per Shot (#18 in the NBA)

Bosh- 1.24 PPS (15 in the NBA)


Now lets compare who their primary ball handlers were, and it adds up to the claim that Amare being a better PnR player being totally false. Elite? Oh year. But Bosh was even better

nothing better than an intelligent poster putting up some facts, and the haters crawl back in their holes for a few minutes. good find. Bosh pops and shoots a lot more than he rolls but i will say he is very craft around the rim and gets to the line plenty when he does attack.

also based on bosh's number's
7.0-14.0 fg on .500% shooting

amare is 9.8-19.5 on .501% shooting....
nearly identical shooting% give bosh 19 shots a game and he would avg 25+ a game.

Last season when bosh was avg 24.0 on .518% a game he was taking 3 less shots a game than amare does now.

Bosh is a lot more efficient than amare, even when bosh was the first option.

John Walls Era
02-01-2011, 09:04 PM
No, why?

Fact that it is good logic?

Miami gave up like 5 number 1 picks this summer. They could have easily gotten Chandler from Dallas, signed Felton and Amar'e. Put in Miller ....

Chandler
Amar'e
Miller
Felton
DWade

..... better playoff team than what you have now.

This makes absolutely 0 sense. 1) Chandler was from Bobcats, why would Mavs trade a player that they just traded for? 2) Hawkeye already showed Amar'e is less effective than Bosh. 3) Felton had his nice little run, but is cooling off. 4) Miller <<<<<< Lebron and also Heat get to have him off the bench!

That team doesn't even have more potential, let alone talent.

xabial
02-01-2011, 09:06 PM
nothing better than an intelligent poster putting up some facts, and the haters crawl back in their holes for a few minutes. good find. Bosh pops and shoots a lot more than he rolls but i will say he is very craft around the rim and gets to the line plenty when he does attack.

also based on bosh's number's
7.0-14.0 fg on .500% shooting

amare is 9.8-19.5 on .501% shooting....
nearly identical shooting% give bosh 19 shots a game and he would avg 25+ a game.

Last season when bosh was avg 24.0 on .518% a game he was taking 3 less shots a game than amare does now.

Bosh is a lot more efficient than amare, even when bosh was the first option.

No amount of stats, can convince me of this, i look at results. Raptors weren't exactly a consistent playoff team each year with bosh. They were more like a one trick pony. As Far as first options go , i think mostly everybody but Heat Fans would take amare as a first option over Bosh.

SteBO
02-01-2011, 09:10 PM
No amount of stats, can convince me of this, i look at results. Raptors weren't exactly a consistent playoff team each year with bosh. They were more like a one trick pony. As Far as first options go , i think mostly everybody but Heat Fans would take amare as a first option over Bosh.
In the instance justinnum1 is talking about, it's about stats, not wins. But this isn't the thread topic. Bosh fits the Heat better than Amare. There's no denying this. Factor in the rosters also, since everyone seems to leave that out.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2011, 09:12 PM
No amount of stats, can convince me of this, i look at results. Raptors weren't exactly a consistent playoff team each year with bosh. They were more like a one trick pony. As Far as first options go , i think mostly everybody but Heat Fans would take amare as a first option over Bosh.

if you are referring to "results" as wins, then please factor in their rosters.

Avenged
02-01-2011, 09:18 PM
Hawkeye ftw!

justinnum1
02-01-2011, 09:19 PM
No amount of stats, can convince me of this, i look at results. Raptors weren't exactly a consistent playoff team each year with bosh. They were more like a one trick pony. As Far as first options go , i think mostly everybody but Heat Fans would take amare as a first option over Bosh.

Talking about results, knicks record is 25-22, raptors record same time last season was 25-22. Knicks have a much better cast than bosh ever did, so that record should be better. And we cant predict the playoffs, but i would be surprised if amare made it past the first round.(unless knicks get a legit C, or melo)

mjqusoldier
02-01-2011, 09:25 PM
:facepalm: felton sucks. and amare knees arent lasting more than a year or 2 and that team might be better for this year, but miami is thinking long term

Yea Felton sucks? thats why hell probably be an all-star this yr hater. And Wade and Bosh are both much more injury prone than Amare. You sound dumb but most Heat fans are bandwagoners anyways so I assume you are too. :clap:

baghdadbob
02-01-2011, 09:27 PM
Going to be mass suicides in Miami when the Heat lose in the playoffs and then they figure out their salary situation, lack of draft picks and roster ex-big-3 puts them in a bad spot. As I have said, they better win with what they got b/c if not, nothing else is going their way.

But Amar'e is simply a better player than Bosh. Bosh is nice but Amar'e thrice.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2011, 09:27 PM
Yea Felton sucks? thats why hell probably be an all-star this yr hater. And Wade and Bosh are both much more injury prone than Amare. You sound dumb but most Heat fans are bandwagoners anyways so I assume you are too. :clap:

stop with the insults please.

Felton is far from suck. He is having a borderline all star year. Chandler and Fields have played very well, and if Gallo can gain some consistency, and the Knicks add a defensive big and vets, and fire Mike, they are in play.

baghdadbob
02-01-2011, 09:27 PM
Yea Felton sucks? thats why hell probably be an all-star this yr hater. And Wade and Bosh are both much more injury prone than Amare. You sound dumb but most Heat fans are bandwagoners anyways so I assume you are too. :clap:

Miami is enamored with Chalmers so that about tells you what you need to know.

Hawkeye15
02-01-2011, 09:28 PM
Going to be mass suicides in Miami when the Heat lose in the playoffs and then they figure out their salary situation, lack of draft picks and roster ex-big-3 puts them in a bad spot. As I have said, they better win with what they got b/c if not, nothing else is going their way.

But Amar'e is simply a better player than Bosh. Bosh is nice but Amar'e thrice.

do you really think, in the next 6 years, Miami won't figure out an equation to win a championship? Cmon now, even a non-Heat fan such as myself knows you can't shut LeBron/Wade/Bosh out of a ring over that period.

justinnum1
02-01-2011, 09:30 PM
Yea Felton sucks? thats why hell probably be an all-star this yr hater. And Wade and Bosh are both much more injury prone than Amare. You sound dumb but most Heat fans are bandwagoners anyways so I assume you are too. :clap:

We know what they say about making assumptions;). And felton was great in the beginning of the year, but he blows now, and he wasn't very good all of last season. So, my educated guess is his stellar play in the beginning of the season, was an aberration.

SteBO
02-01-2011, 09:33 PM
do you really think, in the next 6 years, Miami won't figure out an equation to win a championship? Cmon now, even a non-Heat fan such as myself knows you can't shut LeBron/Wade/Bosh out of a ring over that period.
He just hates on Miami because he feels he has to. My point on this is, Amare is great, there's no denying that. However, people have to understand that Amare is putting up these stats because of the shots he's getting. He gets the majority of the touches and playing in D'antoni's system only enhances his stats. Look at Boris Diaw's stats and Shawn Marions' in Phoenix, and then their stats when they left. Pretty big difference from what I saw. It's the same argument with Amare. Fast paced system normally = higher volume of shots, which leads more possible points. That's the way I look at this.

shizzle09
02-01-2011, 09:49 PM
pretty sure they'd be somewhere close to 34-14

h2r09
02-01-2011, 10:31 PM
once again, amare and bosh are basically the same as far as greatness is concerned, amare is just more dynamic and athletic. bosh is a better fit around lebron and d wade though so it is the same regardless of who it is.

baghdadbob
02-01-2011, 11:16 PM
do you really think, in the next 6 years, Miami won't figure out an equation to win a championship? Cmon now, even a non-Heat fan such as myself knows you can't shut LeBron/Wade/Bosh out of a ring over that period.

I predict ZERO unless they get a real PG and shore up the C position.

baghdadbob
02-01-2011, 11:25 PM
He just hates on Miami because he feels he has to. My point on this is, Amare is great, there's no denying that. However, people have to understand that Amare is putting up these stats because of the shots he's getting. He gets the majority of the touches and playing in D'antoni's system only enhances his stats. Look at Boris Diaw's stats and Shawn Marions' in Phoenix, and then their stats when they left. Pretty big difference from what I saw. It's the same argument with Amare. Fast paced system normally = higher volume of shots, which leads more possible points. That's the way I look at this.

Knicks get 3 more possessions per game than the LEAGUE AVERAGE. 3 does not explain the difference in PPG. Folks luv to talk about how D'Antoni's system inflates PPG but those who do are plain ignorant.

Wing Players excel in the system b/c he gives them the lee-way to shot the ball instead of doing all the ISOs most teams run or simply pounding the ball into the BIGs. But some positions get more shots and the others get less -- that is to say not everyone benefits from the system.

OT: but by your logic, Bosh benefits from LeBron and Wade. So his stats are inflated too.

SteBO
02-01-2011, 11:34 PM
Knicks get 3 more possessions per game than the LEAGUE AVERAGE. 3 does not explain the difference in PPG. Folks luv to talk about how D'Antoni's system inflates PPG but those who do are plain ignorant.

Wing Players excel in the system b/c he gives them the lee-way to shot the ball instead of doing all the ISOs most teams run or simply pounding the ball into the BIGs. But some positions get more shots and the others get less -- that is to say not everyone benefits from the system.

OT: but by your logic, Bosh benefits from LeBron and Wade. So his stats are inflated too.
Bosh isn't getting the same shot volume now. That's the point. Sure, he's playing with LeBron and Wade, bt that's irrelevant in the sense that he isn't getting the same amount of shots, so that logic is flawed number one. Secondly, D'antoni's system allows players to get a higher volume of shots in an attempt to capitalize on every possession. That was also my point. Again, check Boris Diaw and Shawn Marion. Lastly, and this is the final time I'm going to say this, Amare's getting all the touches. When this occurs, it increases the possibility of extra points on his part. This isn't to diminish what Amare has done in NY so far, which has admittedly been phenomenal, but it's just a fact. Another example here, Michael Beasley. He played with Wade in his previous 2 seasons, and didn't average anywhere close to the ppg average he currently has. Why? Because he's the most opportunities. This is the same case with Amare.

mjqusoldier
02-01-2011, 11:37 PM
We know what they say about making assumptions;). And felton was great in the beginning of the year, but he blows now, and he wasn't very good all of last season. So, my educated guess is his stellar play in the beginning of the season, was an aberration.

nope. get your facts straight before you talk. Felton had 1 stretch of 6 games of not playing very well(just shooting really) besides that hes been very good.

xabial
02-01-2011, 11:37 PM
No amount of stats, can convince me of this, i look at results. Raptors weren't exactly a consistent playoff team each year with bosh. They were more like a one trick pony. As Far as first options go , i think mostly everybody but Heat Fans would take amare as a first option over Bosh.



if you are referring to "results" as wins, then please factor in their rosters.

Sure thing.

Because we're talking about whose a better 1st option, the roster really shouldnt matter, rosters are more complimentary players to compliment the 1st option, we're talking about who would be a better 1st option Amare or Bosh?, and i still think amare would be better. He's riding the Knicks to their first playoff berth in six years, and first winning season in ten years. Sure Felton/Fields Surprised everyone this year but without Amare, none of this would be possible. Amare's playing 40+ minutes nightly as the Teams 1st option

Bosh is more suited to be a supporting cast on a team then to be a #1 scoring option and lead a team. I get what your trying to say, but as far as first options i would take amare over bosh, because weather or not the supporting cast is better is extraneous to this debate.

baghdadbob
02-01-2011, 11:45 PM
Bosh isn't getting the same shot volume now. That's the point. Sure, he's playing with LeBron and Wade, bt that's irrelevant in the sense that he isn't getting the same amount of shots, so that logic is flawed number one. Secondly, D'antoni's system allows players to get a higher volume of shots in an attempt to capitalize on every possession. That was also my point. Again, check Boris Diaw and Shawn Marion. Lastly, and this is the final time I'm going to say this, Amare's getting all the touches. When this occurs, it increases the possibility of extra points on his part. This isn't to diminish what Amare has done in NY so far, which has admittedly been phenomenal, but it's just a fact. Another example here, Michael Beasley. He played with Wade in his previous 2 seasons, and didn't average anywhere close to the ppg average he currently has. Why? Because he's the most opportunities. This is the same case with Amare.

SteBo, please read carefully.

The Knicks only get 3 more shots per game than the league average. That equals out to 1.5 PPG per game more than average at a 50% FG% rate. The D'Antoni system does not inflate PPG stats in any meaningful way. People who say this are ignorant.

What the system does is the shot distribution goes more to the Forwards while Guards and Centers shot less.

Amar'e get doubled and tripled nightly. Bosh does not. Amar'e performs even though he is getting doubled and tripled. Bosh does not. That is why Amar'e is MUCH better. Luis Scola would get 20/10 on the Heat.

baghdadbob
02-01-2011, 11:46 PM
nope. get your facts straight before you talk. Felton had 1 stretch of 6 games of not playing very well(just shooting really) besides that hes been very good.

Felton was injured and played. Wrist and High Ankle sprain.

The two MOs in South Beach sat out.

Heat fans are so ignorant.

baghdadbob
02-01-2011, 11:48 PM
Sure thing.

Because we're talking about whose a better 1st option, the roster really shouldnt matter, rosters are more complimentary players to compliment the 1st option, we're talking about who would be a better 1st option Amare or Bosh?, and i still think amare would be better. He's riding the Knicks to their first playoff berth in six years, and first winning season in ten years. Sure Felton/Fields Surprised everyone this year but without Amare, none of this would be possible. Amare's playing 40+ minutes nightly as the Teams 1st option

Bosh is more suited to be a supporting cast on a team then to be a #1 scoring option and lead a team. I get what your trying to say, but as far as first options i would take amare over bosh, because weather or not the supporting cast is better is extraneous to this debate.

They don't understand. Bosh is better. Pat Riley said so.

But your point is accurate, Bosh is Pau. Excellent but not an alpha male. Pau needed Kobe and a good supporting cast just like Bosh will to get anywhere.

There are a few Alpha Males in the NBA and STAT is one of them. Kobe. D'Wade. Melo. Griffin. Rose.

Jonathan2323
02-01-2011, 11:48 PM
Felton was injured and played. Wrist and High Ankle sprain.

The two MOs in South Beach sat out.

Heat fans are so ignorant.

Why are we ignorant because we state facts that actually back up our opinions, unlike your hater filled posts.

baghdadbob
02-01-2011, 11:50 PM
Why are we ignorant because we state facts that actually back up our opinions, unlike your hater filled posts.

What facts are those? That Amar'e is a #1 and Bosh is a better Toni Kukoc?

If you argument is the 1992 Bulls needed Toni Kukoc -- I get it -- but not that Toni Kukoc was better than Hakeem Olajuwon or Pat Ewing.

Bosh is a very good player but he is not a #1 or even #2 option. He actually is very good in Miami doing what he does. I congratulate him for being honest with himself but that is why he is not a Max Deal and you could get better performance from that role while spending less.

Heck Carl Landry could fill Bosh's role for 1/2 the price and you could have used that money for a real PG instead of the trash you have.

justinnum1
02-01-2011, 11:54 PM
They don't understand. Bosh is better. Pat Riley said so.

But your point is accurate, Bosh is Pau. Excellent but not an alpha male. Pau needed Kobe and a good supporting cast just like Bosh will to get anywhere.

There are a few Alpha Males in the NBA and STAT is one of them. Kobe. D'Wade. Melo. Griffin. Rose.

lol...stat is not a #1 option. Any team with stat being the #1 option wont get past the second round.

Flash3
02-01-2011, 11:54 PM
They don't understand. Bosh is better. Pat Riley said so.

But your point is accurate, Bosh is Pau. Excellent but not an alpha male. Pau needed Kobe and a good supporting cast just like Bosh will to get anywhere.

There are a few Alpha Males in the NBA and STAT is one of them. Kobe. D'Wade. Melo. Griffin. Rose.

i seriously don't believe amare belongs with those names.

xabial
02-01-2011, 11:55 PM
They don't understand. Bosh is better. Pat Riley said so.

But your point is accurate, Bosh is Pau. Excellent but not an alpha male. Pau needed Kobe and a good supporting cast just like Bosh will to get anywhere.

There are a few Alpha Males in the NBA and STAT is one of them. Kobe. D'Wade. Melo. Griffin. Rose.

My point exactly. Love the "Alpha-Male" Analogy :p :D :clap:

justinnum1
02-01-2011, 11:55 PM
i seriously don't believe amare belongs with those names.

he doesn't...that troll is just trying to bait heat fans like he normally does.

ATX
02-01-2011, 11:56 PM
Going to be mass suicides in Miami when the Heat lose in the playoffs and then they figure out their salary situation, lack of draft picks and roster ex-big-3 puts them in a bad spot. As I have said, they better win with what they got b/c if not, nothing else is going their way.

But Amar'e is simply a better player than Bosh. Bosh is nice but Amar'e thrice.

:confused: WTF are you talking about guy? Our situation is amazing, despite your completely wrong comment. I bet just about every team in the league would love to have the Heats "Problem". Problems exist to be solved. The Heat did the best they could possibly do to surround the 3 that they could. Rome wasn't built in a day. We all knew there would be an adjustment period. They are doing well, owning the NBA's 2nd best record over the last 25 games or so. (They showed this graphic during the thunder game), and have a very bright future. Your just to much of a hater to even acknowledge this.


Miami is enamored with Chalmers so that about tells you what you need to know.

Again, WTF are you talking about? I suggest you visit the Heat forum to read up on our opinions of not only Chalmers, but all three of the PG's. We know they all suck, and that literally every other starting PG is better. We may develop a good backup, but we all know we don't have the answer currently to solve the PG. That's what the off-season's for.


I predict ZERO unless they get a real PG and shore up the C position.


...And you would be the kind to believe that during the next 5 years that Miami won't actually look to address the problems that are common knowledge. Of course they will look to shore up those positions and add talent to the roster.

Holy crap your a H-A-T-E-R

:facepalm:

baghdadbob
02-01-2011, 11:58 PM
lol...stat is not a #1 option. Any team with stat being the #1 option wont get past the second round.

I think you just ignored his years at Phoenix being a #1 option and getting pretty far in the playoffs. Would have won the Title if Horry did not close-line Nash and cause the fight or Joe Johnson not gone out with an injury in the Conference Finals.

STAT is a #1 option and his teams would have been in the finals (and beaten LeBron) sans Robert Horry's dirty play.

xabial
02-01-2011, 11:59 PM
lol...stat is not a #1 option. Any team with stat being the #1 option wont get past the second round.

If the Knicks get a Legit Center, and Stats still the #1 option, i can see many good things happening for this team.

baghdadbob
02-01-2011, 11:59 PM
i seriously don't believe amare belongs with those names.

Right, but I am a hater. You must not be watching much basketball this year.

baghdadbob
02-02-2011, 12:00 AM
he doesn't...that troll is just trying to bait heat fans like he normally does.

I am baiting a d-bag who claims the Heat Dynasty began 7/8/2010.

A dynasty with no playoff wins.

justinnum1
02-02-2011, 12:01 AM
I think you just ignored his years at Phoenix being a #1 option and getting pretty far in the playoffs. Would have won the Title if Horry did not close-line Nash and cause the fight or Joe Johnson not gone out with an injury in the Conference Finals.

STAT is a #1 option and his teams would have been in the finals (and beaten LeBron) sans Robert Horry's dirty play.

like i said, stat as a number 1 option on the knicks will not get past the 2nd round. If thats enough for knicks fans, cool...miami has dynasty aspirations, and the right core to accomplish it.

^and their he goes calling names, real tough guy you are:rolleyes: need to resort to name calling becasue you cant have a civil conversation.

Flash3
02-02-2011, 12:02 AM
Right, but I am a hater. You must not be watching much basketball this year.

Did I say you were a hater ?

justinnum1
02-02-2011, 12:03 AM
Did I say you were a hater ?

he is definitely a hater, no doubt about that. And nothing wrong with not thinking amare is a #1 option. He won't be a #1 option on a championship team. He will need a batman, just like bosh.

baghdadbob
02-02-2011, 12:04 AM
:confused: WTF are you talking about guy? Our situation is amazing, despite your completely wrong comment. I bet just about every team in the league would love to have the Heats "Problem". Problems exist to be solved. The Heat did the best they could possibly do to surround the 3 that they could. Rome wasn't built in a day. We all knew there would be an adjustment period. They are doing well, owning the NBA's 2nd best record over the last 25 games or so. (They showed this graphic during the thunder game), and have a very bright future. Your just to much of a hater to even acknowledge this.

Again, WTF are you talking about? I suggest you visit the Heat forum to read up on our opinions of not only Chalmers, but all three of the PG's. We know they all suck, and that literally every other starting PG is better. We may develop a good backup, but we all know we don't have the answer currently to solve the PG. That's what the off-season's for.

...And you would be the kind to believe that during the next 5 years that Miami won't actually look to address the problems that are common knowledge. Of course they will look to shore up those positions and add talent to the roster.

Holy crap your a H-A-T-E-R

:facepalm:

1) Heat Forum is filled with rah-rah buffons who think every time the Heat lose the REFs were calling an un-even game.

2) You have no cap space to do anything in terms of talent acquisition unless you trade one of the big 3. Unless, some mid-level comes u with lightening in a bottle in their 30s'

3) Big 3 will win lots of regular season games in the coming years. It is the Playoffs beyond the first round I am doubtful of

ATX
02-02-2011, 12:05 AM
Right, but I am a hater. You must not be watching much basketball this year.

You just disregard all of the facts backed up by the statistics that one of the best posters on this site has provided...Time and time again Haweye has provided evidence and you just ignore logic. This is the focus of the thread, and even though the stats don't back your argument, you are entitled to your opinion, that Amare is better. (Which isn't even the debate or title of thread)..And I respect that opinion. Amare is great. However, you're just attacking Heat fans at every corner, baiting and baiting, taking this thread way off course, and trying to turn this into a bash Miami thread. Stop, Christ.

baghdadbob
02-02-2011, 12:07 AM
like i said, stat as a number 1 option on the knicks will not get past the 2nd round. If thats enough for knicks fans, cool...miami has dynasty aspirations, and the right core to accomplish it.

^and their he goes calling names, real tough guy you are:rolleyes: need to resort to name calling becasue you cant have a civil conversation.

Justin,

The problem is you are a dolt.

STAT was a #1 in Phoenix.

He went to the Western Conference Finals 2 or 3 times. So your basic premise is proven wrong a-priori.

Phoenix was beating the Spurs until Horry's dirty play which cost Phoenix a trip to the Finals which they would have won.

Your now changing the goal posts to say not out of the 2nd round in NY .... well maybe. We don't know yet.

justinnum1
02-02-2011, 12:08 AM
1) Heat Forum is filled with rah-rah buffons who think every time the Heat lose the REFs were calling an un-even game.

2) You have no cap space to do anything in terms of talent acquisition unless you trade one of the big 3. Unless, some mid-level comes u with lightening in a bottle in their 30s'

3) Big 3 will win lots of regular season games in the coming years. It is the Playoffs beyond the first round I am doubtful of

lol...dont worry, i think the heat will be able to get past the first round, especially if they see NY in the first round.

baghdadbob
02-02-2011, 12:08 AM
You just disregard all of the facts backed up by the statistics that one of the best posters on this site has provided...Time and time again Haweye has provided evidence and you just ignore logic. This is the focus of the thread, and even though the stats don't back your argument, you are entitled to your opinion, that Amare is better. (Which isn't even the debate or title of thread)..And I respect that opinion. Amare is great. However, you're just attacking Heat fans at every corner, baiting and baiting, taking this thread way off course, and trying to turn this into a bash Miami thread. Stop, Christ.

I said Bosh was a better Toni Kukoc.

Toni was important to those Bulls teams.

What more can I say.

It is the Heatle Fannies that want to convince folks that Bosh Spice is simply an under-utilized Kevin McHale.

Flash3
02-02-2011, 12:08 AM
Justin,

The problem is you are a dolt.

STAT was a #1 in Phoenix.

He went to the Western Conference Finals 2 or 3 times. So your basic premise is proven wrong a-priori.

Phoenix was beating the Spurs until Horry's dirty play which cost Phoenix a trip to the Finals which they would have won.

Your now changing the goal posts to say not out of the 2nd round in NY .... well maybe. We don't know yet.

stat was not the best player on that team.

footballer2369
02-02-2011, 12:10 AM
Justin,

The problem is you are a dolt.

STAT was a #1 in Phoenix.

He went to the Western Conference Finals 2 or 3 times. So your basic premise is proven wrong a-priori.

Phoenix was beating the Spurs until Horry's dirty play which cost Phoenix a trip to the Finals which they would have won.

Your now changing the goal posts to say not out of the 2nd round in NY .... well maybe. We don't know yet.

Right. He was the #1 over two-time MVP Steve Nash.

ATX
02-02-2011, 12:10 AM
Justin,

The problem is you are a dolt.

STAT was a #1 in Phoenix.

He went to the Western Conference Finals 2 or 3 times. So your basic premise is proven wrong a-priori.

Phoenix was beating the Spurs until Horry's dirty play which cost Phoenix a trip to the Finals which they would have won.

Your now changing the goal posts to say not out of the 2nd round in NY .... well maybe. We don't know yet.

And you act like it was all Amare, while completely disregarding a 2 time league MVP and almost 3 Steve Nash.

justinnum1
02-02-2011, 12:11 AM
stat was not the best player on that team.

seriosuly...nash was everything to that team. obvisouly you take amare out and they cant win, but to say they would have won if amare payed is just stupid.

baghdadbob
02-02-2011, 12:11 AM
lol...dont worry, i think the heat will be able to get past the first round, especially if they see NY in the first round.

Justin,

If it makes you feel better, I think the Heat are better than the Knicks for the simple reason the Knicks are a perimeter team but the Heat are a better perimeter team.

But I just don't see the Heat's mismatch of talent getting past long team that know how to run a half court Offense.

baghdadbob
02-02-2011, 12:13 AM
stat was not the best player on that team.

I think this year is proving that myth incorrect.

i know people want to think STAT is a Nash creation but that is a flat out lie.

xabial
02-02-2011, 12:14 AM
seriosuly...nash was everything to that team. obvisouly you take amare out and they cant win, but to say they would have won if amare payed is just stupid.


Right. He was the #1 over two-time MVP Steve Nash.


stat was not the best player on that team.


And you act like it was all Amare, while completely disregarding a 2 time league MVP and almost 3 Steve Nash.


Hasnt Stat proved this year he can still play, without Nash? Apperantly not to Heat Fans.

justinnum1
02-02-2011, 12:15 AM
Justin,

If it makes you feel better, I think the Heat are better than the Knicks for the simple reason the Knicks are a perimeter team but the Heat are a better perimeter team.

But I just don't see the Heat's mismatch of talent getting past long team that know how to run a half court Offense.

thats fine, boston will be a hell of a series, but you hating is just old and dumb. No one asking you to love or even like the heat, but to hate on them for the dumbest things, like you do, is ignorant and child like.

ATX
02-02-2011, 12:15 AM
He's a hater. Hater's don't use logic. They just resort to pissing off the other fan base, because everything they say to try and back their point is untrue. There is no point in discussing this further with this type of poster. It just goes around in circles when you try explain logic to a hater. They can't hear it, their blinded by their own hate. It's like trying to explain Chemistry to a jock. Truth

Flash3
02-02-2011, 12:15 AM
it wasn't all nash that made amare so good but he did make his life easier, tbh last year amare was playing like the best player in the league because of nash. 2nd half of the season.

Jonathan2323
02-02-2011, 12:15 AM
Hasnt Stat proved this year he can still play, without Nash? Apperantly not to Heat Fans.

Nobody said that he couldn't play without Nash, its that Nash was the better player and 2 time MVP.

baghdadbob
02-02-2011, 12:16 AM
seriosuly...nash was everything to that team. obvisouly you take amare out and they cant win, but to say they would have won if amare payed is just stupid.

So STAT leaves Phoneix and they suck with Nash.

STAT goes to the Knicks who sucked and now they are pretty good.

But yes, Nash.

Funny but I remember folks laughing when Nash got the MVP those two years saying ..... D'Antoni system inflated his statistics and that people did not want to give it to Kobe out of spite.

LOL. So D'Antoni system inflates Amar'e numbers but not Nash I guess.

Flash3
02-02-2011, 12:16 AM
Hasnt Stat proved this year he can still play, without Nash? Apperantly not to Heat Fans.

did i say he couldn't play without nash ? all we said was nash was the better player.

baghdadbob
02-02-2011, 12:16 AM
Nobody said that he couldn't play without Nash, its that Nash was the better player and 2 time MVP.

Nash was not more important to that team than STAT.

It is just that fans get enamored with guys who dribble the ball for 20 seconds every possession like with D Rose.

justinnum1
02-02-2011, 12:17 AM
Hasnt Stat proved this year he can still play, without Nash? Apperantly not to Heat Fans.

sure he can play, he had an epic stretch in the begginig of the seaosn, but he's not getting out of the 1st round being the #1 option on the knicks as they are right now. Same like bosh in previous seasons, he will need a batman to take him to the promise land.

xabial
02-02-2011, 12:17 AM
did i say he couldn't play without nash ? all we said was nash was the better player.

Amare was the #1 option sometime in his career, as Nash aged. He took on the Lakers Front Court by himself and lost in six.

baghdadbob
02-02-2011, 12:19 AM
thats fine, boston will be a hell of a series, but you hating is just old and dumb. No one asking you to love or even like the heat, but to hate on them for the dumbest things, like you do, is ignorant and child like.

I think the Heat are way over-rated.

I think most Heat fans are clueless about ball.

I think that idiotic party at the Triple A after 7/8/2010 serves as proof to this.

justinnum1
02-02-2011, 12:19 AM
Nash was not more important to that team than STAT.

It is just that fans get enamored with guys who dribble the ball for 20 seconds every possession like with D Rose.

You couldn't be any more wrong, we will leave it at that. Each post you write reveals your lack of knowledge and facts.

Flash3
02-02-2011, 12:20 AM
So STAT leaves Phoneix and they suck with Nash.

STAT goes to the Knicks who sucked and now they are pretty good.

But yes, Nash.

Funny but I remember folks laughing when Nash got the MVP those two years saying ..... D'Antoni system inflated his statistics and that people did not want to give it to Kobe out of spite.

LOL. So D'Antoni system inflates Amar'e numbers but not Nash I guess.

don't the knicks and suns have similar records ? with the suns playing a harder conf.

xabial
02-02-2011, 12:20 AM
sure he can play, he had an epic stretch in the begginig of the seaosn, but he's not getting out of the 1st round being the #1 option on the knicks as they are right now. Same like bosh in previous seasons, he will need a batman to take him to the promise land.

I agree. Hopefully that Batman is a Legit Center or Carmelo. Whichever i dont really care. Still think we can take on the Bulls in a 7-game series with this roster, but lets not get into that debate :laugh2:

ATX
02-02-2011, 12:21 AM
So STAT leaves Phoneix and they suck with Nash.

STAT goes to the Knicks who sucked and now they are pretty good.

But yes, Nash.

Funny but I remember folks laughing when Nash got the MVP those two years saying ..... D'Antoni system inflated his statistics and that people did not want to give it to Kobe out of spite.

LOL. So D'Antoni system inflates Amar'e numbers but not Nash I guess.

Then by this "Logic" your essentially saying that Amare's statistics are inflated this year in NY. He does play in D'Antoni's system, right?

justinnum1
02-02-2011, 12:21 AM
I think the Heat are way over-rated.

I think most Heat fans are clueless about ball.

I think that idiotic party at the Triple A after 7/8/2010 serves as proof to this.

cool story bro, i think you said these things about 25 pages ago, anything else you hate?

baghdadbob
02-02-2011, 12:23 AM
sure he can play, he had an epic stretch in the begginig of the seaosn, but he's not getting out of the 1st round being the #1 option on the knicks as they are right now. Same like bosh in previous seasons, he will need a batman to take him to the promise land.

Moving the goal posts again.

First, STAT as #1 won't go to Conference Finals .... proven wrong already.

Second, STAT on Knicks as #1 won't go to Conference Finals .... but now he caveats it by saying with their current roster.

Again you are a dolt.

Safe to say no one thinks the Knicks roster is good enuff to win it all.

Everyone agrees that even if their young wings develop (no Melo) they need a C and back-up PG.

That is why folks who follow the Knicks are getting excited about Mozgov, are interested in Ramon Sessions and want to sign Marc Gasol if possible.

Flash3
02-02-2011, 12:24 AM
why are you insulting because we disagree ?

Flash3
02-02-2011, 12:24 AM
and can you respond to my previous post that i quoted you on ?