PDA

View Full Version : Why is Fields seen as a rookie with a low ceiling?



NYsFinest
01-28-2011, 02:19 AM
With all these Melo trade rumors, I notice that Landry Fields does not get much respect with trade value. Denver seems to value mid 1st round picks a lot more, Favors is treated like he is leaps and bounds ahead of Fields and people continue to say that Fields has pretty much peaked.

I understand that he is 22 years old, but so are Turner and Wesley Johnson (23), however both of them have much higher trade value than Fields. Why can they be a work in progress and Fields is just a career role player??

He has already had huge games:
Tonight: 19 pts, 13 boards, 6 assists
Vs Denver (who apparently doesn't want him): 24 and 17

This is a rookie that is:
1st (by far) among all guards with 7.1 rebounds per game, his 12.6 rebound rate is almost double the league average for a SG.
1st in shooting percentage among all SGs in the NBA.
1st in Double Doubles with 10 among all SGs (2nd place Wade has 6)

His biggest flaw in his game is a consistent jump shot and that is the most fixable aspect of someone's game.

All this and the guy is set to make 500k a year for the next 3 years. In a redraft it wouldn't be crazy to say he would go 5th or 6th, however he makes 1/10 the salary of a player picked at that position...

Why is Landry not seen as a better trade asset and why do people think he wont improve much? What does a player like Wesley Johnson or Evan Turner posses other than hype that allows them to have a higher ceiling??

jimbobjarree
01-28-2011, 02:23 AM
was the same view of Wesley Matthews last season, and he's gone on to continue to flourish in the league. As long as he has the work ethic, he can have a high enough ceiling to be a good player in the league.

JermanJaysFan
01-28-2011, 02:26 AM
With all these Melo trade rumors, I notice that Landry Fields does not get much respect with trade value. Denver seems to value mid 1st round picks a lot more, Favors is treated like he is leaps and bounds ahead of Fields and people continue to say that Fields has pretty much peaked.

I understand that he is 22 years old, but so are Turner and Wesley Johnson, however both of them have much higher trade value than Fields. Why can they be a work in progress and Fields is just a career role player??

He has already had huge games:
Tonight: 19 pts, 13 boards, 6 assists
Vs Denver (who apparently doesn't want him): 24 and 17

This is a rookie that is:
1st (by far) among all guards with 7.1 rebounds per game, his 12.6 rebound rate is almost double the league average for a SG.
1st in shooting percentage among all SGs in the NBA.
1st in Double Doubles with 10 among all SGs (2nd place Wade has 6)

His biggest flaw in his game is a consistent jump shot and that is the most fixable aspect of someone's game.

All this and the guy is set to make 500k a year for the next 3 years. In a redraft it wouldn't be crazy to say he would go 5th or 6th, however he makes 1/10 the salary of a player picked at that position...

Why is Landry not seen as a better trade asset and why do people think he wont improve much? What does a player like Wesley Johnson or Evan Turner posses that allows them to have a higher ceiling??

I agree that the guy is an excellent player, but I think the general perception is that he doesn't have a whole lot of offensive upside to become much more of a star in that way. I haven't watched him enough to really comment on, but thats the report.

But the kid has got an excellent head on his shoulders and some outstanding skills in other areas of the game- he will surely be a very valuable player for quite a while.

The Dream
01-28-2011, 02:27 AM
Landry Fields .. "The Vet"

D1JM
01-28-2011, 02:31 AM
With all these Melo trade rumors, I notice that Landry Fields does not get much respect with trade value. Denver seems to value mid 1st round picks a lot more, Favors is treated like he is leaps and bounds ahead of Fields and people continue to say that Fields has pretty much peaked.

I understand that he is 22 years old, but so are Turner and Wesley Johnson (23), however both of them have much higher trade value than Fields. Why can they be a work in progress and Fields is just a career role player??

He has already had huge games:
Tonight: 19 pts, 13 boards, 6 assists
Vs Denver (who apparently doesn't want him): 24 and 17

This is a rookie that is:
1st (by far) among all guards with 7.1 rebounds per game, his 12.6 rebound rate is almost double the league average for a SG.
1st in shooting percentage among all SGs in the NBA.
1st in Double Doubles with 10 among all SGs (2nd place Wade has 6)

His biggest flaw in his game is a consistent jump shot and that is the most fixable aspect of someone's game.

All this and the guy is set to make 500k a year for the next 3 years. In a redraft it wouldn't be crazy to say he would go 5th or 6th, however he makes 1/10 the salary of a player picked at that position...

Why is Landry not seen as a better trade asset and why do people think he wont improve much? What does a player like Wesley Johnson or Evan Turner posses other than hype that allows them to have a higher ceiling??

afflalo>fields. thats why denver doesnt want him

Kashmir13579
01-28-2011, 02:32 AM
Why is Landry not seen as a better trade asset and why do people think he wont improve much? What does a player like Wesley Johnson or Evan Turner posses that allows them to have a higher ceiling??

Landry is not a very athletic player, he's a high I.Q player. I.Q is hard to measure and thats why non athletic high I.Q players can go overlooked for some time (Steve Nash). that is why guys like Johnson and Turner are looked at as having a higher ceiling. Landry doesn't get his rebounds because he can jump higher than his opponents, he gets them by boxing out and predicting the bounce off the rim. i agree with all the rest. Fields is killing it and there is no way he can't fix some of his flaws now that he's in the NBA.

THE MTL
01-28-2011, 02:33 AM
I didnt even know the that Evan Turner and Wesley Johnson were that old. I have no idea why they were so coveted now I see the facts. However, I figure ppl say Landry has a low ceiling because he is rather old for a rookie now-a-days. (Most finish one year of college and are playing in the NBA by 20)

Danilo Gallinari & Derrick Rose are the same age as Fields and they already have 3 years experience in the NBA. But what makes Fields so special is that he is so intelligent on the basketball court, he plays as if he has as much experience as veterans in the NBA.

Besides being in the right spots at the right time, I guess Landry falls short in being exceptionally well at a particular area of his offensive game. Or being ridiculously athletic.

However, I agree with you. Back in the day, players always did 3-4 years of college and they are legends who would destroy the majority of the players in the league today.

NYsFinest
01-28-2011, 02:35 AM
Landry is not a very athletic player, he's a high I.Q player. I.Q is hard to measure and thats why non athletic high I.Q players can go overlooked for some time (Steve Nash). that is why guys like Johnson and Turner are looked at as having a higher ceiling. Landry doesn't get his rebounds because he can jump higher than his opponents, he gets them by boxing out and predicting the bounce off the rim. i agree with all the rest. Fields is killing it and there is no way he can't fix some of his flaws now that he's in the NBA.

He is athletic, he just isn't quick... I don't see Johnson or Turner as quick athletic guys.

abe_froman
01-28-2011, 02:38 AM
Why is Landry not seen as a better trade asset and why do people think he wont improve much? What does a player like Wesley Johnson or Evan Turner posses other than hype that allows them to have a higher ceiling??
very high to elite level of athleticism and talent.as for turner is was because he killed college ball.

fields,very well could be.but if anyone thought so he would have been picked earlier and not be on your team.

its not bad and think he'll be a solid pro.i'll give you an example,taj gibson he was taken late first round,was boss his rookie year(made all rook 1st team).would you say he has a high ceiling? probably not.

it happens guys that arent looked to be good surprise you.but it will take a larger body of work for most to be convinced

as for melo talks.well if you think he's going to be so good and does have such a high ceiling than why do you want to trade him?

Kashmir13579
01-28-2011, 02:39 AM
afflalo>fields. thats why denver doesnt want him

LMAO. your totally serious too. why would you say things that are clearly not true? Afflalo is marginal at best compared to Fields.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=afflaar01&y1=2011&p2=fieldla01&y2=2011

BTW i'm being nice by comparing Field's stats with Afflalos 2011 stats. this gets a lot worse for you if i compare it to Afflalos rookie season.
its not even close:facepalm:

asandhu23
01-28-2011, 02:41 AM
:shrug:

Kashmir13579
01-28-2011, 02:44 AM
He is athletic, he just isn't quick... I don't see Johnson or Turner as quick athletic guys.

idk man. i don't know about Turner or Favors but Wesley Johnson's upside is T-Mac and his explosiveness is through the roof. Fields isn't that type of player. its a miracle guys like him and Andy Rautins even get drafted.

Gideon
01-28-2011, 02:49 AM
Landry is not a very athletic player, he's a high I.Q player. I.Q is hard to measure and thats why non athletic high I.Q players can go overlooked for some time (Steve Nash). that is why guys like Johnson and Turner are looked at as having a higher ceiling. Landry doesn't get his rebounds because he can jump higher than his opponents, he gets them by boxing out and predicting the bounce off the rim. i agree with all the rest. Fields is killing it and there is no way he can't fix some of his flaws now that he's in the NBA.

Kashmir I know you know a lot about Fields which is why I'm surprised to hear you say Fields is not that athletic. He has a 39 inch vertical which is one of the many reasons the Knicks were so high on him. He may not always play to his athleticism as much as his IQ, but he is definitely athletic and got some serious hops.

Mochalman
01-28-2011, 02:53 AM
he was a no name which is why his ceiling is low

bowdown27
01-28-2011, 02:56 AM
LMAO. your totally serious too. why would you say things that are clearly not true? Afflalo is marginal at best compared to Fields.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=afflaar01&y1=2011&p2=fieldla01&y2=2011

BTW i'm being nice by comparing Field's stats with Afflalos 2011 stats. this gets a lot worse for you if i compare it to Afflalos rookie season.
its not even close:facepalm:

I agree it doesn't make sense about affalo but rumors have been saying that Denver truly feel better with what they have in affalo and do not want the same in Landry. Well hey obviously the Denver organization isn't the bightest of organizations with what they have been doing with the melodrama

The Dream
01-28-2011, 02:56 AM
LMAO. your totally serious too. why would you say things that are clearly not true? Afflalo is marginal at best compared to Fields.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=afflaar01&y1=2011&p2=fieldla01&y2=2011

BTW i'm being nice by comparing Field's stats with Afflalos 2011 stats. this gets a lot worse for you if i compare it to Afflalos rookie season.
its not even close:facepalm:

haVe you seen afflalo play this year?

D1JM
01-28-2011, 02:56 AM
LMAO. your totally serious too. why would you say things that are clearly not true? Afflalo is marginal at best compared to Fields.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=afflaar01&y1=2011&p2=fieldla01&y2=2011

BTW i'm being nice by comparing Field's stats with Afflalos 2011 stats. this gets a lot worse for you if i compare it to Afflalos rookie season.
its not even close:facepalm:

thats your opinion.

compare this year.


player G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
LD 44 1392 14.1 .612 .585 5.7 19.4 12.6 8.3 1.7 0.7 15.0 13.1 116 108 2.0 1.2 3.2 0.111
AA 45 1587 14.0 .641 .600 2.2 10.1 6.2 10.4 0.9 1.3 9.9 14.2 125 112 3.5 0.7 4.2 0.127


like i said, afflalo>fields. Dont get me wrong fields is having a very productive year, but denver doesnt need fields to be their sg. Afflalo does everything more efficiently, except rebound.

Cromedome
01-28-2011, 02:57 AM
Charlie Brown enjoys Fields game.

NYsFinest
01-28-2011, 02:57 AM
he was a no name which is why his ceiling is low

That's why his draft stock was low... don't see what Turner brings that Landry doesn't (other than killing college basketball like morrison, sheldon williams etc etc etc) and his contract is worth about 1/10th of Turner's. Yet Landry Fields seems to fetch less value in a trade than future late first rounders from the Nets.

The Dream
01-28-2011, 02:58 AM
thats your opinion.

compare this year.


player G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
LD 44 1392 14.1 .612 .585 5.7 19.4 12.6 8.3 1.7 0.7 15.0 13.1 116 108 2.0 1.2 3.2 0.111
AA 45 1587 14.0 .641 .600 2.2 10.1 6.2 10.4 0.9 1.3 9.9 14.2 125 112 3.5 0.7 4.2 0.127


like i said, afflalo>fields.

you cant really compare players off stats. fields is a perfect example. he does a lot of things that don't go in the stat sheet.

right now id tae afflalo oVer fields but in 2 years or so it would be fields. i can see fields just getting better and better lie dlee did

sf-fanatic
01-28-2011, 02:58 AM
shane battier 2.0

chicago lulz
01-28-2011, 03:00 AM
From what I've seen of him, I dig him. Definitely deserving to be in the ROY talks...granted I mean, Blake Griffin is just a monster.
Kids got potential

D1JM
01-28-2011, 03:00 AM
you cant really compare players off stats. fields is a perfect example. he does a lot of things that don't go in the stat sheet.

right now id tae afflalo oVer fields but in 2 years or so it would be fields. i can see fields just getting better and better lie dlee did

i know he is going to get better, but denver doesnt need fields. you guys should be happy that denver doesnt need fields because it means he stays with you guys.

D1JM
01-28-2011, 03:02 AM
BTW, i wouldnt mind the bulls getting fields for a first round pick. Maybe we can help you guys land melo ;)

The Dream
01-28-2011, 03:04 AM
i know he is going to get better, but denver doesnt need fields. you guys should be happy that denver doesnt need fields because it means he stays with you guys.

if they get rid of JR, then fields would be a great fit...

no team "doesn't" need fields. he is the type of player that any team could use. i doubt the nuggets don't want fields because of afflalo.

The Dream
01-28-2011, 03:05 AM
BTW, i wouldnt mind the bulls getting fields for a first round pick. Maybe we can help you guys land melo ;)

he's worth a lottery pic and no way would i trade him for a lotto pic

hgtiger32
01-28-2011, 03:05 AM
something to do with the fact that the Nuggets think that Fields and Chandler are only having good years because of the system they play in, bull hell, I'd take either one of those in a heart beat

D1JM
01-28-2011, 03:06 AM
he's worth a lottery pic and no way would i trade him for a lotto pic

than maybe after you guys get melo, we should contact denver :D

NYsFinest
01-28-2011, 03:07 AM
something to do with the fact that the Nuggets think that Fields and Chandler are only having good years because of the system they play in, bull hell, I'd take either one of those in a heart beat

He just had 19 pts, 13 boards and 6 assists in a fairly low scoring half court game... plus the Nuggets play at the same exact pace the Knicks do.

D1JM
01-28-2011, 03:12 AM
He just had 19 pts, 13 boards and 6 assists in a fairly low scoring half court game... plus the Nuggets play at the same exact pace the Knicks do.

no one rebounds in the knicks and someone has to get those rebounds right. That is why people really question D'Antoni system.

jeter 2
01-28-2011, 03:14 AM
Landry Fields will probably be our Manu Ginobili. Their games are a bit different, but they have a lot in common. They're both shrewd, crafty and overzealous. Affalo is 25 and going to be 26. To answer this guy's question, there are times when players are underrated going into the draft, so the only way Fields can prove he is worth more than Turner is by having a better a career than him.

NJ Raven
01-28-2011, 03:15 AM
While I dont think he's peaked, he's never going to be a number 1 or 2 option on a good team. Favors, Wes Johnson & others have that potential. (not a fan of Turner) That being said, Fields is a glue-guy that every team needs.

The Dream
01-28-2011, 03:18 AM
no one rebounds in the knicks and someone has to get those rebounds right. That is why people really question D'Antoni system.
fields has always been a great rebounder

Rego247
01-28-2011, 03:24 AM
he should finish in the top 3 in rookie of the year voting. probably 2nd if the knicks continue to play well till the end of the year.

Bulls_fan90
01-28-2011, 03:45 AM
I wouldn't even trade Kurt Thomas for Landry Fields. Knicks fans think he's the second coming of jesus. That dumbass Spike Lee was wearing his jersey today LMAO.


Landry Fields will probably be our Manu Ginobili.

Before people say im baiting with my response read this.^^^

The Dream
01-28-2011, 03:46 AM
I wouldn't even trade Kurt Thomas for Landry Fields. Knicks fans think he's the second coming of jesus. That dumbass Spike Lee was wearing his jersey today LMAO.

goin in my sig

JNA17
01-28-2011, 03:49 AM
Fields=Channing Frye, well at least that's what his current hype reminds me of.

The Dream
01-28-2011, 03:51 AM
Fields=Channing Frye, well at least that's what his current hype reminds me of.

clearly you dont watch the team.

and frye was awful with us but he's been nice with the suns this year

JNA17
01-28-2011, 03:57 AM
clearly you dont watch the team.

and frye was awful with us but he's been nice with the suns this year

you realize Frye's rookie year with the knicks was the best of his career right? He just declined after that. You don't have to call every player that is not on the team anymore awful.

And as a guy that lives in New York and has the MSG channel, i do watch the knicks, unfortunately. Assumptions is a bad habit to pursue. Fields just reminds me of Frye, even the way he's player. I'll take him seriously if he plays just as well next season.

The Dream
01-28-2011, 04:00 AM
you realize Frye's rookie year with the knicks was the best of his career right? He just declined after that. You don't have to call every player that is not on the team anymore awful.

And as a guy that lives in New York and has the MSG channel, i do watch the knicks, unfortunately. Assumptions is a bad habit to pursue. Fields just reminds me of Frye, even the way he's player. I'll take him seriously if he plays just as well next season.

dude frye is almost the opposite of fields. wow.

JNA17
01-28-2011, 04:04 AM
dude frye is almost the opposite of fields. wow.

You say that now, and strongly knowing how fast some knicks fan's opinions change, I'll take it with a grain of salt, especially since last year with a certain other player...Anyway, point stands, unless i see consistency next year, he will be another Frye to me. Just my opinion.

xabial
01-28-2011, 04:17 AM
You say that now, and strongly knowing how fast some knicks fan's opinions change, I'll take it with a grain of salt, especially since last year with a certain other player...Anyway, point stands, unless i see consistency next year, he will be another Frye to me. Just my opinion.

Frye had a ankle injury and ever since then he was never the same. I dont think its fair to compare Fields hype, to Frye's.

BRICKCITYPIMP12
01-28-2011, 04:23 AM
well first ima say i havent heard anything bout him not being able to get better. just because ppl say stuff dont mean ****.

second..its funny this was made by a knick fan and many knick fans are gettin butthurt in here.
knicks fans are butt hurt over denver "not wanting him" only because they want to get melo so badly but so far the nuggets have not gave 2 ***** bout any of the knicks offers.

IMO feilds is very very talented.. now and he should/will get better..how much batter??? IDK but i guess we wait and see.

and lastly comparing his trade value to even turner aint even worth it. at this point i would take him over turner 10 outta 10 times...hahaha

JNA17
01-28-2011, 04:31 AM
Frye had a ankle injury and ever since then he was never the same. I dont think its fair to compare Fields hype, to Frye's.

So how do you know Fields won't suffer the same fate? No one can predict the future, not me, you, or anybody. Which is why a guy like Fields, who was practically a no name, is hard for not only me, but any rational fan to take seriously right away. Look at Blake Griffen or any top 10 pick in the draft and then like at Fields. Were not gonna hype guys like Fields right away unless they pull off mind numbing numbers, which Fields does not do yet. It would take a few years of consistency to be taken seriously.

I mean look like Kevin Love who was a top ten pick as well, but look how long it took him to be finally recognized as the player today? He was not hyped that much if any at all. Not even the coach for the first couple of years gave him the respectable minutes he deserved.

Fields will need to show more, in fact, A LOT more, and a lot longer then 1 year. He looks good now, but i would like to see what he can do for another half of the season and the next full season. That would give a much better outlook of Fields's future with the NBA and the Knicks in general.

yanksrock
01-28-2011, 05:05 AM
I just love that apparently Denver is high on Bill Walker & Anthony Randolph and don't really like Fields. I find that pure comedy.

yanksrock
01-28-2011, 05:13 AM
So how do you know Fields won't suffer the same fate? No one can predict the future, not me, you, or anybody. Which is why a guy like Fields, who was practically a no name, is hard for not only me, but any rational fan to take seriously right away. Look at Blake Griffen or any top 10 pick in the draft and then like at Fields. Were not gonna hype guys like Fields right away unless they pull off mind numbing numbers, which Fields does not do yet. It would take a few years of consistency to be taken seriously.

I mean look like Kevin Love who was a top ten pick as well, but look how long it took him to be finally recognized as the player today? He was not hyped that much if any at all. Not even the coach for the first couple of years gave him the respectable minutes he deserved.

Fields will need to show more, in fact, A LOT more, and a lot longer then 1 year. He looks good now, but i would like to see what he can do for another half of the season and the next full season. That would give a much better outlook of Fields's future with the NBA and the Knicks in general.


The question was why isn't he as highly regarded as Turner. Turner hasn't done anything consistently yet.

And I don't get your point that maybe he will suffer the same fate as Frye. So your saying your not looking at what he potentially can become because he may or may not hurt his ankle?!

Please help me understand.

StrandedCub
01-28-2011, 05:31 AM
First, Wesley Johnson is leaps and bounds more athletic than Fields. I don't care what Fields vertical is, he isn't very explosive. As for Turner, I never thought he would be that great in the NBA. His status comes primarily from him being such a beast at the college level.

Now, I like Fields a lot. But the kid is basically where he will be. I mean, there are things here and there that he can do to get better but his chances of being a star in this league are slim. While he is already better than guys like Johnson, Turner, and Favors... He doesn't have the attributes to make him a star. It really isn't hard to grasp. Fields is good at everything, and great at nothing.

Guys like Johnson and Favors have great athleticism, something that cannot be taught. They both have great length as well as the ability to finish at the rim over defenders. For Favors, footwork, post moves, and a jump shot are something that are able to be improved. Johnson's main weakness is his ball handling and ability to drive the ball to the rim, which is also something that can be taught.

Yes, I know. You can "improve" your athleticism, but that is marginal at best. I'm not saying that Fields can eventually be a star in this league, but his chances of reaching that level are less than that of these others. And that is where the value of a player is, in their potential.

Dankster
01-28-2011, 08:45 AM
This "low ceiling" comment was applied to him from the day he was surprisingly drafted by the knicks with the 39th pick. Almost every 4 year college player that comes into the NBA has that universal statement labeled to them.

In Landry's case, his first 2 years at Stanford he was nothing more than a role/bench player (the Lopez years.) His #'s accross the board increased every year in college with his culminating point being senior year where he led the Pac-10 in scoring and rebounding.

This "low ceiling" nonsense started in the year Shane battier was drafted 6th overall. He was the first 4 year college player taken off the board which really was symbolic for the way the league has shifted as far as teams now would rather take unproven commodities with high ceilings rather than guys that produced for years on the collegiate level.

Fields upside is what he decides to make of it. If the kid ever gets a consistent perimeter game he can become a very complete player in this league.

Jetsguy
01-28-2011, 09:26 AM
Fields=Channing Frye, well at least that's what his current hype reminds me of.

I dont get this comparison at all?

Comparing a guy who went 8th? (or top ten at least) in the draft to a guy in the second round? How can the hype be the same?

They play different positions have a different game and fields is better and more efficient in almost every single category in their rookie seasons?

Swashcuff
01-28-2011, 09:39 AM
LMAO. your totally serious too. why would you say things that are clearly not true? Afflalo is marginal at best compared to Fields.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=afflaar01&y1=2011&p2=fieldla01&y2=2011

BTW i'm being nice by comparing Field's stats with Afflalos 2011 stats. this gets a lot worse for you if i compare it to Afflalos rookie season.
its not even close:facepalm:

You are a good enough poster to know that comparing Afflalo's career to Landry's rookie season is in no way a measure as to who is the better player right now. Based on their respective play this season Arron has been better than Landry and not by very much but he is indeed a very good/underrated player and is quickly becoming one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA, yes he is better than Landry as of right now.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=afflaar01&y1=2011&p2=fieldla01&y2=2011

Will Landry improve over the course of his career? YES will he one day be a better player than Arron? In all likeliness YES he will, but as of right based on what we've seen this season just saying Landry has been better than him could be inaccurate it's more of a wash than anything else.

obcha22
01-28-2011, 09:42 AM
he was a no name which is why his ceiling is low

Yep. And he was passed over by everyone and no one wants to admit they f'd up by not taking him. I think the big issue with him is if he can develop a legit 3 pt range and set himself apart as a guard and not swing-man. He reminds me of D-Lee (but can play D) Hard working, smart and a very good athlete, just not an off the charts guy. If he improves more this season and does the same next season, people will be talking about him as the steal of that draft and how could people have passed on him

Swashcuff
01-28-2011, 09:42 AM
I wouldn't even trade Kurt Thomas for Landry Fields. Knicks fans think he's the second coming of jesus. That dumbass Spike Lee was wearing his jersey today LMAO.



Before people say im baiting with my response read this.^^^

I sure am glad that you are not the Bulls GM.

PrettyBoyJ
01-28-2011, 09:56 AM
I rather him not get traded I like Fields in NY.. and I guess ppl say his ceiling is low because they dont really focus on what he brings to the table.. and he's like the 5th option on the team so his number is not gonna be called that often to carry some scoring load

pacofunk64
01-28-2011, 10:13 AM
The only reason is because he is a New York Knick. People hate the Knicks. I haven't seen him play yet but you don't just put numbers up like this by accident. He's obviously an intellegent players but maybe his athletic ability isn't thru the roof?

Jamiecballer
01-28-2011, 10:21 AM
it's pretty simple really: the more a player has to learn about the subtleties of the game the more room there is for growth. players like Fields come into the game with far less to learn.

Flash3
01-28-2011, 10:22 AM
will he ever be a superstar ? no.

will he ever be a all-star ? maybe especially if the knicks ever become a great team, but i don't think he'll be a perennial All-star.

Personally i don't think he'll ever be alot better than guys like gallo and chandler.

GivenGrace
01-28-2011, 10:22 AM
I just love that apparently Denver is high on Bill Walker & Anthony Randolph and don't really like Fields. I find that pure comedy.

That's fine with me. He's young (and cheap) and plays with alot of heart. He doesn't have plays called for him and still posts decent stats. Fields does something that most other knicks don't, rebound.I'm a huge Melo fan and I'm from Syracuse so I've followed him pretty close through out his career.But I don't care if we trade for him or not as long as Walsh continues to build team. We could probably use a real center and some better bench depth more than anything. But it's hard to pass up a scorer like Melo.

nycericanguy
01-28-2011, 10:35 AM
LMAO. your totally serious too. why would you say things that are clearly not true? Afflalo is marginal at best compared to Fields.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=afflaar01&y1=2011&p2=fieldla01&y2=2011

BTW i'm being nice by comparing Field's stats with Afflalos 2011 stats. this gets a lot worse for you if i compare it to Afflalos rookie season.
its not even close:facepalm:

Don't pay him any mind, he is one of the more notorious Knick haters on PSD, he'll come into any thread and find a way to try to say something bad about anyone on NY no matter what the subject is...:rolleyes:

yanksrock
01-28-2011, 10:36 AM
That's fine with me. He's young (and cheap) and plays with alot of heart. He doesn't have plays called for him and still posts decent stats. Fields does something that most other knicks don't, rebound.I'm a huge Melo fan and I'm from Syracuse so I've followed him pretty close through out his career.But I don't care if we trade for him or not as long as Walsh continues to build team. We could probably use a real center and some better bench depth more than anything. But it's hard to pass up a scorer like Melo.

Oh your preaching to the Choir. I love Fields. I'm just saying it's funny that Denver doesn't like a guy like fields who consistently does just about everything well, yet they like walker AR.

nycericanguy
01-28-2011, 10:43 AM
He has the potential to be a borderline all star do it all kind of guy. He's old school, he plays the game the right way and shoots over 50% like guys used to do. Now even the stars shoot 44% because they take so many bad shots and are always trying to be flashy.

And he is VERY athletic actually, but people value potential more than experience these days. If a guy is 19 and is raw and doesn't know the game he is considered to have more potential than a 4 year player who has "peaked". its nonsense, FIelds has flat out been the best player of the 2010 class this season and he's only 22.

BrahCake954
01-28-2011, 10:49 AM
i like fields, he is the only knick outside of amare who can play in a half court.. the rest just benefit from the knick crapy system

Flash3
01-28-2011, 10:50 AM
He has the potential to be a borderline all star do it all kind of guy. He's old school, he plays the game the right way and shoots over 50% like guys used to do. Now even the stars shoot 44% because they take so many bad shots and are always trying to be flashy.

And he is VERY athletic actually, but people value potential more than experience these days. If a guy is 19 and is raw and doesn't know the game he is considered to have more potential than a 4 year player who has "peaked". its nonsense, FIelds has flat out been the best player of the 2010 class this season and he's only 22.

john wall's putting up 15 4rbs 9ast 2 stls

nycericanguy
01-28-2011, 11:01 AM
john wall's putting up 15 4rbs 9ast 2 stls

sorry i didn't know stats meant everything. All these years of NY losing all I heard was how NY's players stats meant nothing because they were on really bad teams.

Now you have Wall who has missed a ton of games, is scoring an incredibly in-efficient 15ppg, shooting 40% and 30% from 3 point range, both well below the average NBA player, and to top it off he's doing it on one of the worst teams in the NBA... sorry if i'm not impressed. Fields has played better by far.

Swashcuff
01-28-2011, 11:04 AM
He has the potential to be a borderline all star do it all kind of guy. He's old school, he plays the game the right way and shoots over 50% like guys used to do. Now even the stars shoot 44% because they take so many bad shots and are always trying to be flashy.

And he is VERY athletic actually, but people value potential more than experience these days. If a guy is 19 and is raw and doesn't know the game he is considered to have more potential than a 4 year player who has "peaked". its nonsense, FIelds has flat out been the best player of the 2010 class this season and he's only 22.

This is where Knicks fans really start to get annoying. Has he really flat out been the best player of his class? Are you kidding me. Are you really trying to be serious right now. I mean joking is one thing but being serious and saying something like that, that's ridiculous.

He's 22 which by today's standards is OLD for a rookie. There's nothing special about a 22 year old rookie dude. He'll be turning 23 before John Wall even turns 21 there are 3rd year players in the league who are younger than Landry. What are you talking about? :confused:

Swashcuff
01-28-2011, 11:07 AM
sorry i didn't know stats meant everything. All these years of NY losing all I heard was how NY's players stats meant nothing because they were on really bad teams.

Now you have Wall who has missed a ton of games, is scoring an incredibly in-efficient 15ppg, shooting 40% and 30% from 3 point range, both well below the average NBA player, and to top it off he's doing it on one of the worst teams in the NBA... sorry if i'm not impressed. Fields has played better by far.

You clearly have ZERO understanding of the game of basketball.

Could you kindly tell me when was the last time a rookie average 9 assists per game.

Oh yeah and blame him for his team sucking and credit Landry for the Knicks doing so well I totally agree because we all know Landry is the MVP of that team and John Wall plays alongside 3 All Star Caliber players. :rolleyes:

nycericanguy
01-28-2011, 11:07 AM
This is where Knicks fans really start to get annoying. Has he really flat out been the best player of his class? Are you kidding me. Are you really trying to be serious right now. I mean joking is one thing but being serious and saying something like that, that's ridiculous.

He's 22 which by today's standards is OLD for a rookie. There's nothing special about a 22 year old rookie dude. He'll be turning 23 before John Wall even turns 21 there are 3rd year players in the league who are younger than Landry. What are you talking about? :confused:

why such anger? Take a chill pill man...lol.

Where did I say there was something special about Fields being 22? I just meant to say he's not as old as some make it out to be.

And yes he has been the best rookie of the 2010 class, I think most would agree with that. Barkley himself, a notorious Knick basher said it last night.

Who has been better this year? Name ONE guy from the 2010 class that has played better than Fields.

nycericanguy
01-28-2011, 11:10 AM
You clearly have ZERO understanding of the game of basketball.

Could you kindly tell me when was the last time a rookie average 9 assists per game.

Oh yeah and blame him for his team sucking and credit Landry for the Knicks doing so well I totally agree because we all know Landry is the MVP of that team and John Wall plays alongside 3 All Star Caliber players. :rolleyes:

you are one angry poster...lol

Yes the 9 assists is impressive, but that dpesn't mean he's played better than Fields. Fact is Wall has total and complete freedom and has the ball in his hands all the time and takes a ton of shots. So its only natural he is going to put up some numbers.

D-Block21-Chito
01-28-2011, 11:23 AM
This is where Knicks fans really start to get annoying. Has he really flat out been the best player of his class? Are you kidding me. Are you really trying to be serious right now. I mean joking is one thing but being serious and saying something like that, that's ridiculous.

He's 22 which by today's standards is OLD for a rookie. There's nothing special about a 22 year old rookie dude. He'll be turning 23 before John Wall even turns 21 there are 3rd year players in the league who are younger than Landry. What are you talking about? :confused:


Not quite sure what this kid is talking about. You knick fans have nothing to worry about with this kid. He gets plenty of press even in Chicago. He is not underrated! You should be more concerned with not giving him up for Melo. Don't let Denver hurt your team chemistry. Hard to even find a G that can rebound that well (A frickn rookie might I add)

Swashcuff
01-28-2011, 11:23 AM
why such anger? Take a chill pill man...lol.

Where did I say there was something special about Fields being 22? I just meant to say he's not as old as some make it out to be.

And yes he has been the best rookie of the 2010 class, I think most would agree with that. Barkley himself, a notorious Knick basher said it last night.

Who has been better this year? Name ONE guy from the 2010 class that has played better than Fields.

LMAO @ u. John Wall, cut it slice it dice it any way you want but John Wall has played BETTER than Landry Fields. Landry has been more efficient and more valuable to his team but John Wall is the better player.

Do you know how many 20 year olds in the history of the NBA has averaged 15 points 6 assists and 4 rebounds per game during the course of an NBA season? I would love for you to answer me this question. Please answer this question.

Don't worry about Wall's percentages those will certainly go up, he's a fantastically gifted scorer/driver and he'll get that together, what you need to worry about is Landry's falling.

If you understand anything about the game of basketball you'd understand why Landry is shooting so well this season. I am not taking anything away from him because I do believe he is an efficient scorer but playing alongside player's like Amar'e, Felton, Chandler, Gallo. With such a good supporting cast and a working high paced system John Wall could easily average 11 assists per.

Landry has been more efficient and valuable to his team and may in all likeliness finish ahead of John in ROY rankings but that in no way mean's that he is the better player.

Oh and not to mention John Wall is doing all what he's doing while being injured and his injuries have directly affected his shooting.

http://dc.sbnation.com/washington-wizards/2011/1/17/1938595/john-wall-injury-wizards-foot-knee-rookie

Take a read if you still don't believe me.

Landry is fantastic but you guys are overrating him so much its becoming so annoying.

Flash3
01-28-2011, 11:23 AM
sorry i didn't know stats meant everything. All these years of NY losing all I heard was how NY's players stats meant nothing because they were on really bad teams.

Now you have Wall who has missed a ton of games, is scoring an incredibly in-efficient 15ppg, shooting 40% and 30% from 3 point range, both well below the average NBA player, and to top it off he's doing it on one of the worst teams in the NBA... sorry if i'm not impressed. Fields has played better by far.

considering fields plays with amare and does'nt have much pressure on him while wall plays with blatche and is still putting really good assist numbers.
thumb

Wall is getting better and better with each game. Tuesday, Wall had his 15th double-double giving him eight in his last 13 games. He's also scored in double-digits in 11 of the last 13 games. And the Wizards have gone 3-3 in their last six games. Wall is up to fifth in assists among all players (9.2 apg) in his last four games, Fields' production is down (6.5 points and 4.3 rebounds) and he's scored in double-digits just twice in the Knicks' last eight games.

~nba

NY4YA
01-28-2011, 11:23 AM
I'm glad Denver doesn't like fields or gallo or chandler. Makes it easier to rape them in a trade. I honestly don't think we would have beaten Miami with Affalos instead of Fields. He got us soo many extra possessions. And lets be real john wall is a better player than fields.

Flash3
01-28-2011, 11:26 AM
and you also said he was "flat out" the best rookie, if fields is indeed the best rookie from this class he definitely isn't running away with it.

Swashcuff
01-28-2011, 11:30 AM
you are one angry poster...lol

Yes the 9 assists is impressive, but that dpesn't mean he's played better than Fields. Fact is Wall has total and complete freedom and has the ball in his hands all the time and takes a ton of shots. So its only natural he is going to put up some numbers.

And its only natural that being the best player on his team that opposing defenses are going to pay most attention to the team's primary playmaker/shot creator, which is a major reason why he has been so erratic at times. Now compare that to Landry (one of the hardest working 2nd round rookies I have ever seen) who is the 5th option on offense on his team and just works within the scheme of the game (well at that). He benefits a great deal from the play of his teammates John Wall on the other hand does NOT. He play's alongside the most inefficient big in the game today. Fact is John Wall is working with what he has and is doing so spectacularly. He is better than Landry.

NYKSpiritBomb
01-28-2011, 11:30 AM
Landry is not a very athletic player, he's a high I.Q player. I.Q is hard to measure and thats why non athletic high I.Q players can go overlooked for some time (Steve Nash). that is why guys like Johnson and Turner are looked at as having a higher ceiling. Landry doesn't get his rebounds because he can jump higher than his opponents, he gets them by boxing out and predicting the bounce off the rim. i agree with all the rest. Fields is killing it and there is no way he can't fix some of his flaws now that he's in the NBA.

???:facepalm:

NYsFinest
01-28-2011, 11:32 AM
All I'm saying is if the knicks were offering turner instead of fields for melo people would be saying its a great package... but I don't see what turner has shown to be better while making 10 times the money fields is.

Swashcuff
01-28-2011, 11:32 AM
and you also said he was "flat out" the best rookie, if fields is indeed the best rookie from this class he definitely isn't running away with it.

Exactly, that is the statement that really got me going it's ridiculous on every single level. A 100% healthy John Wall would be running circles around Landry in every single aspect of the game but the fact of the matter is he is not healthy and will not be 100% this season. As good as Landry is he has not "flat out" been the best at anything.

NYKSpiritBomb
01-28-2011, 11:34 AM
LMAO @ u. John Wall, cut it slice it dice it any way you want but John Wall has played BETTER than Landry Fields. Landry has been more efficient and more valuable to his team but John Wall is the better player.

Do you know how many 20 year olds in the history of the NBA has averaged 15 points 6 assists and 4 rebounds per game during the course of an NBA season? I would love for you to answer me this question. Please answer this question.

Don't worry about Wall's percentages those will certainly go up, he's a fantastically gifted scorer/driver and he'll get that together, what you need to worry about is Landry's falling.

If you understand anything about the game of basketball you'd understand why Landry is shooting so well this season. I am not taking anything away from him because I do believe he is an efficient scorer but playing alongside player's like Amar'e, Felton, Chandler, Gallo. With such a good supporting cast and a working high paced system John Wall could easily average 11 assists per.

Landry has been more efficient and valuable to his team and may in all likeliness finish ahead of John in ROY rankings but that in no way mean's that he is the better player.

Oh and not to mention John Wall is doing all what he's doing while being injured and his injuries have directly affected his shooting.

http://dc.sbnation.com/washington-wizards/2011/1/17/1938595/john-wall-injury-wizards-foot-knee-rookie

Take a read if you still don't believe me.

Landry is fantastic but you guys are overrating him so much its becoming so annoying.


this guy thinks schooting and scoring are the only aspects of the game:facepalm:

Flash3
01-28-2011, 11:35 AM
you are one angry poster...lol

Yes the 9 assists is impressive, but that dpesn't mean he's played better than Fields. Fact is Wall has total and complete freedom and has the ball in his hands all the time and takes a ton of shots. So its only natural he is going to put up some numbers.

so what it's not like fields can do better in his situation.

Flash3
01-28-2011, 11:36 AM
Not quite sure what this kid is talking about. You knick fans have nothing to worry about with this kid. He gets plenty of press even in Chicago. He is not underrated! You should be more concerned with not giving him up for Melo. Don't let Denver hurt your team chemistry. Hard to even find a G that can rebound that well (A frickn rookie might I add)

so you're basically saying fields > mello.

Swashcuff
01-28-2011, 11:36 AM
All I'm saying is if the knicks were offering turner instead of fields for melo people would be saying its a great package... but I don't see what turner has shown to be better while making 10 times the money fields is.

I think the general consensus there is upside. Speaking as a 76ers fan Turner has shown NOTHING thus far in the NBA to make one believe that he is better than Landry but given his potential going forward and his play-making/ball handling ability many may say that he would eventually right his ship and become a better player than Fields. As of right now based on what we've seen Fields is the better player.

nycericanguy
01-28-2011, 11:38 AM
LMAO @ u. John Wall, cut it slice it dice it any way you want but John Wall has played BETTER than Landry Fields. Landry has been more efficient and more valuable to his team but John Wall is the better player.

Do you know how many 20 year olds in the history of the NBA has averaged 15 points 6 assists and 4 rebounds per game during the course of an NBA season? I would love for you to answer me this question. Please answer this question.

Don't worry about Wall's percentages those will certainly go up, he's a fantastically gifted scorer/driver and he'll get that together, what you need to worry about is Landry's falling.

If you understand anything about the game of basketball you'd understand why Landry is shooting so well this season. I am not taking anything away from him because I do believe he is an efficient scorer but playing alongside player's like Amar'e, Felton, Chandler, Gallo. With such a good supporting cast and a working high paced system John Wall could easily average 11 assists per.

Landry has been more efficient and valuable to his team and may in all likeliness finish ahead of John in ROY rankings but that in no way mean's that he is the better player.

Oh and not to mention John Wall is doing all what he's doing while being injured and his injuries have directly affected his shooting.

http://dc.sbnation.com/washington-wizards/2011/1/17/1938595/john-wall-injury-wizards-foot-knee-rookie

Take a read if you still don't believe me.

Landry is fantastic but you guys are overrating him so much its becoming so annoying.

dude your lost, i never said Fields was the better player, people always steer this into a "wall has more upside and potential" argument. well duh, he was the number 1 pick. you keep trying to puts words in my mouth to make your argument.

But Fields has had a better season, period.

nycericanguy
01-28-2011, 11:40 AM
so what it's not like fields can do better in his situation.

who knows? but this is not a what if game.

Fields has played better this season, bottom line.

Swashcuff
01-28-2011, 11:41 AM
this guy thinks schooting and scoring are the only aspects of the game:facepalm:

Dude when you learn what basketball is you can reply to my posts till then get away troll. The other poster and I were having a debate about the respective players' SHOOTING do you understand SHOOTING. That is what my post was based on.

Until you can understand what is being debated go back to bed child let the adults do the talking.

Flash3
01-28-2011, 11:42 AM
who knows? but this is not a what if game.

Fields has played better this season, bottom line.

well i think wall has had a better season.

nycericanguy
01-28-2011, 11:45 AM
well i think wall has had a better season.

i'm surprised a few people have said that actually, i started a poll to see what the results would be.

Swashcuff
01-28-2011, 11:45 AM
dude your lost, i never said Fields was the better player, people always steer this into a "wall has more upside and potential" argument. well duh, he was the number 1 pick. you keep trying to puts words in my mouth to make your argument.

But Fields has had a better season, period.

Ok now tell me how has Fields is having a better season, since John is having a season only seen 4 times before in the history of the game. I see you didn't answer my question.

Prove to me with stats, facts, videos and hell even give me some of your opinion as to why Landry is having a better season. He is more valuable to his team's success YES, but guess what the player's he plays alongside have a great deal to say about that.

Landry is having a better season shooting, defending and rebounding. He's also a guy that gives you all the intangibles and for a rookie that's amazing but is he really having a better season than John? No he's not.

0nekhmer
01-28-2011, 11:46 AM
wow when i was reading those stats i thought it was all rookie stats
but he is leading the SG's in the LEAGUE at double doubles, and shooting percentage?! thats monster, he doesn't get much recognition eh? last time i saw him was when he played our team lol

D1JM
01-28-2011, 11:48 AM
Don't pay him any mind, he is one of the more notorious Knick haters on PSD, he'll come into any thread and find a way to try to say something bad about anyone on NY no matter what the subject is...:rolleyes:


I am? WTF :laugh:

nycericanguy
01-28-2011, 11:49 AM
]Ok now tell me how has Fields is having a better season, since John is having a season only seen 4 times before in the history of the game. I see you didn't answer my question. [/B]

Prove to me with stats, facts, videos and hell even give me some of your opinion as to why Landry is having a better season. He is more valuable to his team's success YES, but guess what the player's he plays alongside have a great deal to say about that.

Landry is having a better season shooting, defending and rebounding. He's also a guy that gives you all the intangibles and for a rookie that's amazing but is he really having a better season than John? No he's not.

I think thats kind of irrelevant TBH, I mean you can always find some stat for a rookie that hasn't been done alot before. That doesn't mean he's having a better season.

I mean I'm sure how many rookie 2 guards have led all guards in rebounding and shot over 50%? I'm sure that hasn't happened too often either.

Thats not really the point of the question though, the question is who has had a better season

D-Block21-Chito
01-28-2011, 11:58 AM
so you're basically saying fields > mello.

Wow that is deff not what I said man. If it was 1 one for 1 trade than duh make the trade melo is top 5 scorer in the NBA.

BUT that is not the case bud, knicks will have to give multiple players (like 3 or 4) I'm just saying I like fields and I would want to keep him.

I'm not saying he is better than John wall or Melo cause he's not! Don't put words in my mouth son

baghdadbob
01-28-2011, 12:02 PM
I guess Fields won't get better in the next 3-4 season but all the other rookies will.

Go figure.

A Nut Da 1
01-28-2011, 12:15 PM
LMAO. your totally serious too. why would you say things that are clearly not true? Afflalo is marginal at best compared to Fields.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=afflaar01&y1=2011&p2=fieldla01&y2=2011

BTW i'm being nice by comparing Field's stats with Afflalos 2011 stats. this gets a lot worse for you if i compare it to Afflalos rookie season.
its not even close:facepalm:

I think the referrence to Afflalos and Fields was based on the physical attributes not their stats....so that would be a fair comparision

jkcronyn
01-28-2011, 12:22 PM
truthfully the low draft stock = a low cieling. just like being picked in the second round he's gonna be facing an uphill battle to prove he's not just shane battier

king4day
01-28-2011, 12:22 PM
I haven't seen enough of him to compare but from what I know and waht some of my Knick fan friends have tole me, maybe a Battier type but quicker.

A Nut Da 1
01-28-2011, 12:52 PM
I haven't seen enough of him to compare but from what I know and waht some of my Knick fan friends have tole me, maybe a Battier type but quicker.

if you went off of his skill sets as of right now they would favor someone like doug christie

Draco
01-28-2011, 01:03 PM
Why is Landry not seen as a better trade asset and why do people think he wont improve much? What does a player like Wesley Johnson or Evan Turner posses other than hype that allows them to have a higher ceiling??

If two Knick fans, who see a lot more of Fields than non-Knick fans, think that Turner has more potential and more talent than Fields then you're probably not going to get a much better answer than that.
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=563166

Giaps
01-28-2011, 01:12 PM
truthfully the low draft stock = a low cieling. just like being picked in the second round he's gonna be facing an uphill battle to prove he's not just shane battier
I agree with what you said, but I'd take him being just a Shane Battier.

thenyknicks
01-28-2011, 01:18 PM
landry fields is still a rookie, as he learns to become a better shooter, ball handler, more athletic, get his already high iq even higher, he can be a star. there aren't limits to what he can do, it always comes down to the player making the right decisions as well as his coaches. he can't be lebron james or wade, but he can be a star. after a dacade of sturggles, we are lucky to have him.

Jetsguy
01-28-2011, 01:34 PM
Ok now tell me how has Fields is having a better season, since John is having a season only seen 4 times before in the history of the game. I see you didn't answer my question.

Prove to me with stats, facts, videos and hell even give me some of your opinion as to why Landry is having a better season. He is more valuable to his team's success YES, but guess what the player's he plays alongside have a great deal to say about that.

Landry is having a better season shooting, defending and rebounding. He's also a guy that gives you all the intangibles and for a rookie that's amazing but is he really having a better season than John? No he's not.

:shrug:

GeekInThePink
01-28-2011, 01:34 PM
His rebounding is outstanding for a guard, I would say he has potential to be a fringe all-star and a pretty solid defensive player. His basketball I.Q has really impressed me thus far. I think its a great find for the Knicks and as a Toronto fan, I'm really glad to see the Knicks being competitive, being a mediocre team didn't suit them.

Tony_Starks
01-28-2011, 01:51 PM
I think his low ceiling is a combination of his skill set and who he plays for. When you're on a D'Antoni team its going to be assumed that your stats are going to be inflated due to their pace, like David Lee for example. Then when you take into account his game is mostly based on fundamentals as opposed to just raw athletic talent, that factors in to how good he can become.

He does most of his damage by making smart plays, put backs, being in the right place at the right time, making the open shot, etc... None of those things are bad btw but at the same time he's not the kind of guy thats going to take you off the dribble and jump over someone for a dunk or go crazy and explode for a 40 point game.

I think he'll carve out a nice career though, I see a better rebounding version of Afflalo as a comparison. But when you look at his what I call "old man game" its hard to imagine allstar potential.

young eastwood
01-28-2011, 02:17 PM
He's not a bad athlete. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ark51dDGKZY

IMO I think he can be a 16 ppg 7 reb 5 ast player in the next couple of years which wouldn't be bad.

gbombx19
01-28-2011, 02:43 PM
LMAO. your totally serious too. why would you say things that are clearly not true? Afflalo is marginal at best compared to Fields.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=afflaar01&y1=2011&p2=fieldla01&y2=2011

BTW i'm being nice by comparing Field's stats with Afflalos 2011 stats. this gets a lot worse for you if i compare it to Afflalos rookie season.
its not even close:facepalm:

fields is far better than afflalo. no question about it. also, fields is very athletic......39 inch vertical. fields's problem is hes not a great shooter, passer, or ball handler. but i dont understand how someone who leads a major conference in points and rebounds is a second rounder.

nycericanguy
01-28-2011, 03:00 PM
fields is far better than afflalo. no question about it. also, fields is very athletic......39 inch vertical. fields's problem is hes not a great shooter, passer, or ball handler. but i dont understand how someone who leads a major conference in points and rebounds is a second rounder.

his shooting has improved alot since the beginning of the season, which shows a willingness to work on his game.

He's actually around 40% from 3 point range now which is really impressive, and 52% overall. How many guys, forget rookies, how many players period in the NBA shoot 50% and 40% from 3?

Kashmir13579
01-28-2011, 03:20 PM
Kashmir I know you know a lot about Fields which is why I'm surprised to hear you say Fields is not that athletic. He has a 39 inch vertical which is one of the many reasons the Knicks were so high on him. He may not always play to his athleticism as much as his IQ, but he is definitely athletic and got some serious hops.
his explosiveness and quickness is nowhere near Wesley thats all i'm saying. i love Fields dude.

thats your opinion.

compare this year.


player G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
LD 44 1392 14.1 .612 .585 5.7 19.4 12.6 8.3 1.7 0.7 15.0 13.1 116 108 2.0 1.2 3.2 0.111
AA 45 1587 14.0 .641 .600 2.2 10.1 6.2 10.4 0.9 1.3 9.9 14.2 125 112 3.5 0.7 4.2 0.127


like i said, afflalo>fields. Dont get me wrong fields is having a very productive year, but denver doesnt need fields to be their sg. Afflalo does everything more efficiently, except rebound.
ok so this is exactly the point the OP was trying to make. Fields is off to a quicker start than afflalo and their stats next to each other are up for interpretation. Fields has Afflalo already beat in many categories and its his first season. if you look at afflalo's rookie season vs fields and Afflalo's arc as a player, you have to really hate the knicks and their posters to think Afflalo is and will be a better player than Fields.

You are a good enough poster to know that comparing Afflalo's career to Landry's rookie season is in no way a measure as to who is the better player right now. Based on their respective play this season Arron has been better than Landry and not by very much but he is indeed a very good/underrated player and is quickly becoming one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA, yes he is better than Landry as of right now.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=afflaar01&y1=2011&p2=fieldla01&y2=2011

Will Landry improve over the course of his career? YES will he one day be a better player than Arron? In all likeliness YES he will, but as of right based on what we've seen this season just saying Landry has been better than him could be inaccurate it's more of a wash than anything else.

my mistake i meant to compare the single seasons. but even so, while it may not be an accurate measure of who is better NOW, looking at Afflalo's rookie season and his trajectory after, its quite clear who has more potential and who will have a better NBA career.

Kashmir13579
01-28-2011, 03:24 PM
???:facepalm:

yo he's not man. thats not what he's known for. can he dunk, yes. can he jump relatively high with a running start, yes. is he possessed with above average to elite athleticism, NO. thats not why he's a good player. Fields is the best dude but don't over rate him.

Lake_Show2416
01-28-2011, 03:49 PM
He's a nice player I like him but his ceiling is low cuz he's an older rookie so he's had some development..

He's not really a crazy athlete which in the league today even the bigs are crazy

Cuz of his lack of athletism he'll probably won't be that great of a defender

Having said all that I'm a fan of him, good local guy from Stanford.. I wish him best of luck

Swashcuff
01-28-2011, 03:58 PM
my mistake i meant to compare the single seasons. but even so, while it may not be an accurate measure of who is better NOW, looking at Afflalo's rookie season and his trajectory after, its quite clear who has more potential and who will have a better NBA career.

Agreed

No one really thought Afflalo was going to be this good but his hard work has payed dividends. Given the fact that Landry is already showing that level of maturity and determination in his ceiling is much higher.

John Walls Era
01-28-2011, 04:01 PM
truthfully the low draft stock = a low cieling. just like being picked in the second round he's gonna be facing an uphill battle to prove he's not just shane battier

wow Shane Battier being underrated badly here. Shane Battier doesn't have glamorous numbers, but certainly a guy every coach would want as a 6th man or starter. Consistent player, great defender (use to be one of the best perimeter defenders), use to score quite a bit with memphis. If he becomes like Shane Battier, the Knicks should be extremely happy. Those are guys you need on championship contending teams (yeah yeah Battier hasn't won a ring, but look at some of the teams he was on).

John Walls Era
01-28-2011, 04:03 PM
I don't even care if Fields has a low ceiling. He is a very very good player, guys that aren't amazing at one thing, but can do all the gritty stuff. Thats why hes labelled to have a low ceiling, no one is expecting Fields to ever be a dominant scorer or playmaker (no one cares about Defense these days :sigh:).

TBH Sometimes potential is overrated. I'm still waiting for Anthony Randolph to show me that 20-10 ability I've been hearing about for so long....
The best mix is to have potential, have smarts and have a good work ethic. Thats what I look for in rookies.

cargobox
01-28-2011, 04:04 PM
Because Lil Wayne has No Ceilings

dominater6192
01-28-2011, 04:05 PM
He is just a product of DAntoni's system

John Walls Era
01-28-2011, 04:07 PM
He is just a product of DAntoni's system

yup you know Mike... makes players into smart defenders....

lvlheaded
01-28-2011, 04:23 PM
Lets not complain, at least we get would get to keep Fields in a Melo trade. Lets all be happy about that

Kashmir13579
01-28-2011, 04:48 PM
Agreed

No one really thought Afflalo was going to be this good but his hard work has payed dividends. Given the fact that Landry is already showing that level of maturity and determination in his ceiling is much higher.

well said

Kashmir13579
01-28-2011, 04:49 PM
He is just a product of DAntoni's system

lmao. classic.

teddygreen17
01-28-2011, 04:51 PM
Fields is the type of glue guy you need to pick up slack of slumping players...um Wilson Chandler. Fields is also intelligent enough to realize that good offensive basketball is about ball movement, hence why he is the recipient of nice passing when he makes backdoor cuts for example. Please do not forget, he is a rookie. If he continues to rebound this well and we trade Chandler or Gallo, he will get more touches and his shot will continue to improve. People seem to think that he is average like 10 ppg on like 20 shots per game. He shoots 52% from the field. With more touches he could average 15 and 6.5 rebound. I would take that and his unselfish play, and team defense with 2 isolation players.

Knicks goals - 2 years)
Felton (or Paul)
Landry Fields
Carmelo Anthony
Amare
Some dude that block shots, rebounds, and doesn't foul

Chris Paul will make us a Championship team because he will demand we play team defense and will force ball movement. FYI. The only reason the Hornets are not winning a championship right now is because they don't have a wing scorer.

yanksrock
01-28-2011, 05:09 PM
He is just a product of DAntoni's system

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAA HAAAAA HAAAA HAAAAAA

Yeah, because D'Antoni preaches smart defense and superb rebounding!!


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAA HAAAAAA HAAAAA HAAAAAA

Lake_Show2416
01-28-2011, 05:10 PM
He is just a product of DAntoni's system

Obviously the system doesn't hurt the stat sheet but to come on this good and make a immediate impact for a 2nd rounder is very impressive

nycsports2
01-28-2011, 05:26 PM
cuz hes not flashy

cwilson21
01-28-2011, 05:34 PM
LMAO. your totally serious too. why would you say things that are clearly not true? Afflalo is marginal at best compared to Fields.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=afflaar01&y1=2011&p2=fieldla01&y2=2011

BTW i'm being nice by comparing Field's stats with Afflalos 2011 stats. this gets a lot worse for you if i compare it to Afflalos rookie season.
its not even close:facepalm:

No you weren't. You compared Afflalo's career averages to Fields lone season. Here's how they compare each other for this season:

Afflalo: 14.0 PER, .641 TS%, .600 eFG%, ORtg 125, WS/48 .127


Fields: 14.4 PER, .617 TS%, .588 eFG%, ORtg 117, WS/48 .117

Kashmir13579
01-28-2011, 05:55 PM
No you weren't. You compared Afflalo's career averages to Fields lone season. Here's how they compare each other for this season:

Afflalo: 14.0 PER, .641 TS%, .600 eFG%, ORtg 125, WS/48 .127


Fields: 14.4 PER, .617 TS%, .588 eFG%, ORtg 117, WS/48 .117

yes i'm sorry i meant to compare single seasons. if you want you can compare their rookie seasons and i'm sure my statement you bolded will stand strong.

thekmp211
01-28-2011, 06:11 PM
i mean the most obvious answer is because he is limited athletically, and was never a big-time scorer in college. for a second round pick to ever produce like this is pretty rare, so its not unreasonable to think that he's just developed much faster than expected.

with that said, im not sure if he'll ever become a different type of player, but he can sure improve a lot at what he already does. shooting, defense, develop the post game ect...all things that pretty much every nba player can get better at. if becomes elite at one of those things (3 point shooting for example) perceptions will start to change.

at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. he may not have the best talents, but in terms of being a valuable part of an NBA team, he's probably the best guy on the knicks not named amare, felton or chandler. hes a keeper.

kgjfan243
01-28-2011, 06:23 PM
I think he can be a solid starter in the league for many years. However, solid is all he'll be.

Backstabber
01-28-2011, 06:25 PM
Landry is not a very athletic player, he's a high I.Q player. I.Q is hard to measure and thats why non athletic high I.Q players can go overlooked for some time (Steve Nash). that is why guys like Johnson and Turner are looked at as having a higher ceiling. Landry doesn't get his rebounds because he can jump higher than his opponents, he gets them by boxing out and predicting the bounce off the rim. i agree with all the rest. Fields is killing it and there is no way he can't fix some of his flaws now that he's in the NBA.

I have to disagree, he is NBA caliber athletic. With a 40 inch vertical he certainly is not a below the rim, high IQ player. Where are the other high IQ rookies from the draft? I think its more than high IQ and decision making, if that were the case they would be giving Rautins run. I think the bigger problem is how the NBA evaluates talent. If you stayed in college 4 years (started all 4) and were student athlete of the year in the PAC10, there must be something wrong with you.

Backstabber
01-28-2011, 06:35 PM
i mean the most obvious answer is because he is limited athletically, and was never a big-time scorer in college. for a second round pick to ever produce like this is pretty rare, so its not unreasonable to think that he's just developed much faster than expected.

with that said, im not sure if he'll ever become a different type of player, but he can sure improve a lot at what he already does. shooting, defense, develop the post game ect...all things that pretty much every nba player can get better at. if becomes elite at one of those things (3 point shooting for example) perceptions will start to change.

at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. he may not have the best talents, but in terms of being a valuable part of an NBA team, he's probably the best guy on the knicks not named amare, felton or chandler. hes a keeper.

Limited athletically with a 40 inch vertical? Never a big time scorer in college?


Fields, who is 6-7 and 210 pounds, played four years at Stanford, averaging 22 points and 8.8 rebounds as a senior.

NYT http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/26/fields-named-knicks-starter/

22 pts is probably enough to lead the conference in scoring. 8.8 rebounds probably a precursor to what he's doing now. The writing was on the wall, nobody listened. I'm glad the Knicks did.

Backstabber
01-28-2011, 06:37 PM
yo he's not man. thats not what he's known for. can he dunk, yes. can he jump relatively high with a running start, yes. is he possessed with above average to elite athleticism, NO. thats not why he's a good player. Fields is the best dude but don't over rate him.

I think when the work out vertical leap they do it from a stand still. 40 inches for a 6'7" player is above the rim.

thekmp211
01-28-2011, 06:44 PM
Limited athletically with a 40 inch vertical? Never a big time scorer in college?



NYT http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/26/fields-named-knicks-starter/

22 pts is probably enough to lead the conference in scoring. 8.8 rebounds probably a precursor to what he's doing now. The writing was on the wall, nobody listened. I'm glad the Knicks did.

wasn't aware he posted that kind of scoring number, but it was his senior season and the only one where he was a featured player. he also played on a weak stanford team in a weak pac-10 conference.

as for the vertical...look, i don't know how they grade verticals, because kevin love apparently has a 38 inch vertical and is basically cemented to the ground. i'm not saying he's a bad athlete, just that his athletic abilities don't seem to indicate him getting much better at things he doesn't already do well. he's never going to be an iso scorer in the nba, and thats okay.

Kashmir13579
01-28-2011, 09:00 PM
I have to disagree, he is NBA caliber athletic. With a 40 inch vertical he certainly is not a below the rim, high IQ player. Where are the other high IQ rookies from the draft? I think its more than high IQ and decision making, if that were the case they would be giving Rautins run. I think the bigger problem is how the NBA evaluates talent. If you stayed in college 4 years (started all 4) and were student athlete of the year in the PAC10, there must be something wrong with you.

true. but i'm just saying the thread asks why Wesley Johnson holds more value; i've watched Wesley Johnson play many times, and i'm very confident in saying that Landry Fields is nowhere near as explosive as Wesley. Wes Johnson has vintage Vince/T-Mac ups. That is elite ups. thats the kind of explosiveness and athletic ability you can potentially build a team around.

Landry does so many things right; but why must some fans try and compare his athletic ability to players like T-Mac, (vintage) Marion, and Vince Carter. They didn't compare them directly, but by saying that Landry has ups like Wes Johnson, your pretty much saying he has ups like Vince. that is not the case.

This whole thread is about why teams aren't willing to put stock in Landry over guys like Turner and Johnson, i'm simply pointing out why.

also, (regarding the draft) scouts didn't trust his college stats because he played in such a weak conference. thats BS if you ask me. if he was such a good player in a weak conference that means other teams worked their defensive game-plan around him, and he STILL put up crazy numbers.

yanksrock
01-29-2011, 08:11 PM
Fields will be a really good player.

jimm120
01-29-2011, 08:31 PM
With all these Melo trade rumors, I notice that Landry Fields does not get much respect with trade value. Denver seems to value mid 1st round picks a lot more, Favors is treated like he is leaps and bounds ahead of Fields and people continue to say that Fields has pretty much peaked.

I understand that he is 22 years old, but so are Turner and Wesley Johnson (23), however both of them have much higher trade value than Fields. Why can they be a work in progress and Fields is just a career role player??

He has already had huge games:
Tonight: 19 pts, 13 boards, 6 assists
Vs Denver (who apparently doesn't want him): 24 and 17

This is a rookie that is:
1st (by far) among all guards with 7.1 rebounds per game, his 12.6 rebound rate is almost double the league average for a SG.
1st in shooting percentage among all SGs in the NBA.
1st in Double Doubles with 10 among all SGs (2nd place Wade has 6)

His biggest flaw in his game is a consistent jump shot and that is the most fixable aspect of someone's game.

All this and the guy is set to make 500k a year for the next 3 years. In a redraft it wouldn't be crazy to say he would go 5th or 6th, however he makes 1/10 the salary of a player picked at that position...

Why is Landry not seen as a better trade asset and why do people think he wont improve much? What does a player like Wesley Johnson or Evan Turner posses other than hype that allows them to have a higher ceiling??


WHY?

because he was a 2nd round pick.

If he would have been a top 10 or even top 15 pick, they wouldn't consider him "low ceiling".

mizzacNYC
02-01-2011, 12:30 PM
Fields is def. top 5 rookies this year, maybe top 3 talent wise IMO. As for his athletic ability he's above average, not freakishly athletic but very athletic, at least athletic enough to throw down an And1 dunk on Wesley Johnson's head LOL take a look;

Fields Dunk on Wesley Johnson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H_Dp8XXWc4&feature=related

Just watch a Landry Fields mix video on youtube and all the debating about his athletic ability will be put to rest. He has a great NBA body pretty quick up and down the court and his ups got his head scrapping the backboard nuff said.

Fields Monster Putback
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYYOS7Eku2M&NR=1&feature=fvwp

As fas as his upside, if you watch the knicks you know Fields is prob. the 5th option on the offense at this point. That will change with time I believe and thats when everyone will see this kids total package. Yes his IQ for the game is good but that doesn't cap his capacity for growth, the main thing he can improve is his aggressiveness on the offensive side and become a dangerous 1 on 1 player. He has all the tools to do so ex; good ball handle, size, strength, and quickness. He showed it in college, in the summer league and in glimpses during this season so far. But alot of the time he passes 1st b4 taking it himself. When Fields is given the green light to create and look for his shot his game will look even more impressive.

Fields Mix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iLihmiw5TQ&NR=1&feature=fvwp

WizFan3
02-01-2011, 12:41 PM
i would love landry fields

Flash3
02-01-2011, 12:56 PM
idk if fields vertical is 40 i mean demar derozan's is only 38 and i dont know if he can jump as high could be wrong though

Flash3
02-01-2011, 01:01 PM
he's a guy who does everything good but nothing great but then again that's what they said about brandon roy but i doubt he ever becomes that good or even close. just my opinion

SportsAndrew25
02-01-2011, 02:33 PM
I can tell you that Fields is working well for us now and is very valueable.