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View Full Version : Is Demar Derozen a strong contender for Most improved Player?



Gibby
01-27-2011, 03:17 AM
I know there are other candidates like Kevin Love, Nick Young, Raymond Felton, Russell Westbrook. but where does Derozen fit in with these guys?

LTBaByyy
01-27-2011, 03:23 AM
Kevin Love has this locked up

jmtapia
01-27-2011, 03:26 AM
Kevin Love has this on lock down right now. Candidate but not even close. Nothing against Derozen though.

abe_froman
01-27-2011, 03:29 AM
2nd year players should be barred from getting the award,improvement is expected.so no to dd

MTone8788
01-27-2011, 03:29 AM
Obviously he isn't a strong contender... Are you asking this because he scoring a lot during the Raptors current pitiful 9 game losing streak?

Dol-Fan
01-27-2011, 03:30 AM
2nd year players should be barred from getting the award,improvement is expected.so no to dd

This. I've always thought sophomores should be overlooked under most circumstances.

Sadds The Gr8
01-27-2011, 03:31 AM
2nd year players should be barred from getting the award,improvement is expected.so no to dd

this.


Kevin Love has this locked up

and this.

Gators123
01-27-2011, 03:34 AM
I don't think hes a "strong contender"

Season Age Tm Lg G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
2009-10 20 TOR NBA 77 1664 12.5 .554 .502 4.8 10.9 7.9 4.9 1.3 0.8 9.4 18.1 110 115 2.0 0.3 2.3 0.066
2010-11 21 TOR NBA 45 1506 13.4 .534 .471 2.8 9.6 6.1 7.9 1.3 0.9 10.4 21.5 106 114 1.5 0.2 1.7 0.055

barreleffact
01-27-2011, 03:57 AM
2nd year players should be barred from getting the award,improvement is expected.so no to dd

I disagree. improvement may be expected but how much? Im not saying pro DD but tyreke hasnt improved drastically if at all. neither did rose that much his second year. So because a player doesnt improve for years and then may show improvement, he should get the nod? Take Dorrel Wright who was nobody in miami but now is a servicable player. That could largely be due to PT and a different system as opposed to him getting any better. there are many factors,. Love hasnt gotten that much better IMO. He has always been a stud! He's just now getting minutes

abe_froman
01-27-2011, 04:05 AM
I disagree. improvement may be expected but how much? Im not saying pro DD but tyreke hasnt improved drastically if at all. neither did rose that much his second year. So because a player doesnt improve for years and then may show improvement, he should get the nod? Take Dorrel Wright who was nobody in miami but now is a servicable player. That could largely be due to PT and a different system as opposed to him getting any better. there are many factors,. Love hasnt gotten that much better IMO. He has always been a stud! He's just now getting minutes

evans has been injured off and on all season....and rose didnt??? he up nearly every stat.ppg,ts,per..his defense improved to

Hellcrooner
01-27-2011, 04:21 AM
I don't think hes a "strong contender"

Season Age Tm Lg G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
2009-10 20 TOR NBA 77 1664 12.5 .554 .502 4.8 10.9 7.9 4.9 1.3 0.8 9.4 18.1 110 115 2.0 0.3 2.3 0.066
2010-11 21 TOR NBA 45 1506 13.4 .534 .471 2.8 9.6 6.1 7.9 1.3 0.9 10.4 21.5 106 114 1.5 0.2 1.7 0.055


for the love of god thats one AWFULL Per

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-27-2011, 04:23 AM
Obviously he isn't a strong contender... Are you asking this because he scoring a lot during the Raptors current pitiful 9 game losing streak?

this

Raph12
01-27-2011, 04:24 AM
If Love doesn't win, I'll be shocked if they go with anyone besides Westbrook, so no.

Gibby
01-27-2011, 04:30 AM
i would vote for kevin love too. Just wanted get the sense for what most nba fans think.

Khalifa21
01-27-2011, 07:19 AM
1. Love









2. Felton
3. Doesn't matter

Love has this locked up.

Jays Claw
01-27-2011, 08:33 AM
DeRozan hasn't really improved the facets of his game except for scoring. An above poster brought up his advanced stats and to be honest, they look horrendous. And Love has the MIP locked up. If not him, then Westbrook or Young.

Flash3
01-27-2011, 09:11 AM
1. Love









2. Felton
3. Doesn't matter

Love has this locked up.

felton doesn't matter either,

Flash3
01-27-2011, 09:44 AM
nvm

NBA-GMaster
01-27-2011, 09:48 AM
Biggest rival of Kevin Love for MIP is Russell Westbrook..

Hawkeye15
01-27-2011, 09:54 AM
If the league shuts out Love for this award (assuming he keeps his current pace), I will never take this award seriously again. There isnt even a close 2nd currently.

pebloemer
01-27-2011, 10:01 AM
From the beginning of the year until now, Love has easily showed the most improvement from last year. There is no case.

Although I should mention I find it interesting that people that think Love should get it are aso saying that strong play on a bad team shouldn't be given much stock. Last I checked the Raptor's have a better record than Minnesota.

Also, DeRozan's improvement has come more recently, so season numbers could be misleading regarding the amount he's improved. But the award takes the whole season into consideration, so DeRozan's slow start is relevant for it.

metsfanssince05
01-27-2011, 10:05 AM
Kevin Love is 22 YEARS OLD!! HES GOING TO GET BETTER AS HE GETS OLDER, he was a top 5 pick, as a 21 year old had 11 rebounds. how the heck is he going to get MIP, I really love his work 15 rebounds a game is friggin great but hes only 22 of course players are going to devolpe as they get older!! (Same with Westbrook)Players like Felton, thats 26 years old, never came close to 9 apg once in his career, should be a "lock" for MIP.

Hawkeye15
01-27-2011, 10:13 AM
Love's season:
#6 in PER
#1 in rebounds (total and per game)
#16 in scoring
#14 in free throw percentage
#8 in three point percentage
#1 in double doubles (30 consecutive currently)
1st 30-30 game in 28 years
1st player ever with 40-15 and 5 threes in a game
1st player with four 20-20 games in a month since 1991
#4 in win shares
#1 in nba.com efficiency rating

seriously, there is no competition currently for Love.

Algmuskrats
01-27-2011, 10:15 AM
Kevin Love is going to get it. But i'm sure Derozen will get a vote or two.

Hawkeye15
01-27-2011, 10:20 AM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/derozde01.html

How is Derozan a candidate? Sure he has played a bit stronger as of lately, but he is 2nd to last in simple rating for the Raps with -8, and is still statistically a below average NBA player. I think the kid has potential, and may be a candidate down the line, but Love went from a bench player to an all star (at least most of us agree he should be there). The only competition I can think of currently is Felton, and that is a distant second. Nick Young may be a distant 3rd.

goose15
01-27-2011, 10:21 AM
hes improved but he aint winning jack.. Love

aman_13
01-27-2011, 10:41 AM
I don't even get why Love is considered most improved. It's such a pointless award if your going to give it to a top 5 pick who is expected to get better every year. His minutes increased by almost 10 mpg, so obviously you will expect his numbers to go up.

Hedo made sense because for most of his career he was just considered a good role player and in one year he became a vital player to a championship team.

Algmuskrats
01-27-2011, 10:46 AM
I don't even get why Love is considered most improved. It's such a pointless award if your going to give it to a top 5 pick who are expected to get better every year. His minutes increased by almost 10 mpg, so obviously you et his expect his numbers to go up.

Hedo made sense because for most of his career he was just considered a good role player and in one year he became a vital player to a championship team.

Your Love argument is kind of irrelevant to the award.
I understand your argument but I don't think where you were picked in the draft or if you were undrafted really matters for the "Most Improved Player".
But I agree it is a stupid award because more mins for anyone does mean better stats. Just look at Amare for example. And you could just have one good season and win the award and do nothing for the rest of your career.

TO to the CHI
01-27-2011, 11:01 AM
Your Love argument is kind of irrelevant to the award.
I understand your argument but I don't think where you were picked in the draft or if you were undrafted really matters for the "Most Improved Player".
But I agree it is a stupid award because more mins for anyone does mean better stats. Just look at Amare for example. And you could just have one good season and win the award and do nothing for the rest of your career.

I think what Aman said actually makes a lot of sense. Top draft picks are going to come into the league and have some adjustment period. The best players often still adjust (Griffin is an exception to this rule). So the MIP Award would always just go to a young superstar if the only criteria is year over year improvement without context (and that appears to be most people's factor, so Love is a lock).

That said, I think a guy like Felton makes a lot more sense for really taking steps forward in his career that were unexpected and not just a natural progression. Everyone who is paying attention knew Love was great and would only get better. The fact that he got better more quickly than expected is impressive, but to me is just one of the factors.

I think I would probably end up voting for Love because his leap is exponential, but I can see an argument for a guy like Felton (or a guy like Nick Young who fell off the face of the earth, but is now back and playing well).

aman_13
01-27-2011, 11:10 AM
I think what Aman said actually makes a lot of sense. Top draft picks are going to come into the league and have some adjustment period. The best players often still adjust (Griffin is an exception to this rule). So the MIP Award would always just go to a young superstar if the only criteria is year over year improvement without context (and that appears to be most people's factor, so Love is a lock).

That said, I think a guy like Felton makes a lot more sense for really taking steps forward in his career that were unexpected and not just a natural progression. Everyone who is paying attention knew Love was great and would only get better. The fact that he got better more quickly than expected is impressive, but to me is just one of the factors.

I think I would probably end up voting for Love because his leap is exponential, but I can see an argument for a guy like Felton (or a guy like Nick Young who fell off the face of the earth, but is now back and playing well).

Yeah Raymond Felton is a good example, i would give him the MIP. This is not a knock on Love, he's having a great year and probably is going to win this anyway but Felton makes more sense for this award in my opinion.

DwayneMVPwade
01-27-2011, 11:11 AM
As much as I love Demar(No homo) I have to agree with the majority of you guys that Love is Most improved Player

barreleffact
01-27-2011, 12:06 PM
evans has been injured off and on all season....and rose didnt??? he up nearly every stat.ppg,ts,per..his defense improved to

As far as Rose having higher stats, he decreased in rebounding, assists but TO went up, and FT% and steals. his Fg% did rise. But at the beginning of the season eeryone thought he had regressed due to injury and the knife incident. Anyway, how do you establish true improvement?

Felton, im assuming(havent looked it up but considering his coach its a safe assumtion), plays in a much faster pace and very different system. Of course his APG would be higher in his new role. Yet people consider him for MIP.

Love got no playtime before even though he was a stud then.

The only big surprise in my mind is Beasley. Wouldnt vote him MIP either but he's a bigger shock than the previously mentioned.

Hawkeye15
01-27-2011, 12:16 PM
As far as Rose having higher stats, he decreased in rebounding, assists but TO went up, and FT% and steals. his Fg% did rise. But at the beginning of the season eeryone thought he had regressed due to injury and the knife incident. Anyway, how do you establish true improvement?

Felton, im assuming(havent looked it up but considering his coach its a safe assumtion), plays in a much faster pace and very different system. Of course his APG would be higher in his new role. Yet people consider him for MIP.

Love got no playtime before even though he was a stud then.

The only big surprise in my mind is Beasley. Wouldnt vote him MIP either but he's a bigger shock than the previously mentioned.


you contradicted yourself with the bolded part. Beasley hasn't improved hardly at all, he is just jacking up more shots with more minutes.

To those who say Love was a stud before, he just didn't get minutes, you are partly right. But his increased three point and free throw percentage, and his scoring efficiency rise, as well as his somehow increased rebound rate, make him an easy call for this award.

14/11 off the bench, ot 21/16 and being a worthy all star, qualifies as MIP.

Hellcrooner
01-27-2011, 12:17 PM
you contradicted yourself with the bolded part. Beasley hasn't improved hardly at all, he is just jacking up more shots with more minutes.

To those who say Love was a stud before, he just didn't get minutes, you are partly right. But his increased three point and free throw percentage, and his scoring efficiency rise, as well as his somehow increased rebound rate, make him an easy call for this award.

14/11 off the bench, ot 21/16 and being a worthy all star, qualifies as MIP.
I really want to see Love turning heads once he has THAT pass first Pg dishing him insanely good assists.

SpeeMN
01-27-2011, 12:20 PM
List of past MIP award winners. It is always a young player having a breakout year...

2000–01 McGrady, TracyTracy McGrady* Guard/Forward United States Orlando Magic
2001–02 O'Neal, JermaineJermaine O'Neal* Forward/Center United States Indiana Pacers
2002–03 Arenas, GilbertGilbert Arenas* Guard United States Golden State Warriors
2003–04 Randolph, ZachZach Randolph* Forward United States Portland Trail Blazers
2004–05 Simmons, BobbyBobby Simmons* Guard/Forward United States Los Angeles Clippers
2005–06 Diaw, BorisBoris Diaw* Forward France Phoenix Suns
2006–07 Ellis, MontaMonta Ellis* Guard United States Golden State Warriors
2007–08 Türkoğlu, HedoHedo Türkoğlu* Forward Turkey Orlando Magic
2008–09 Granger, DannyDanny Granger* Forward/Guard United States Indiana Pacers
2009–10 Brooks, AaronAaron Brooks* Guard United States Houston Rockets

barreleffact
01-27-2011, 12:26 PM
you contradicted yourself with the bolded part. Beasley hasn't improved hardly at all, he is just jacking up more shots with more minutes.

To those who say Love was a stud before, he just didn't get minutes, you are partly right. But his increased three point and free throw percentage, and his scoring efficiency rise, as well as his somehow increased rebound rate, make him an easy call for this award.

14/11 off the bench, ot 21/16 and being a worthy all star, qualifies as MIP.

Maybe, but I honestly expected him to have worse percentages with an increased load. Surprisingly, he has not. In fact his Fg and 3pt% are technically career highs.

magichatnumber9
01-27-2011, 12:36 PM
Demar should be heavily considered. He is opening eyes this year. His shot is looking good from the small sample I have gathered.

DwayneMVPwade
01-27-2011, 12:44 PM
As far as Rose having higher stats, he decreased in rebounding, assists but TO went up, and FT% and steals. his Fg% did rise. But at the beginning of the season eeryone thought he had regressed due to injury and the knife incident. Anyway, how do you establish true improvement?

Felton, im assuming(havent looked it up but considering his coach its a safe assumtion), plays in a much faster pace and very different system. Of course his APG would be higher in his new role. Yet people consider him for MIP. Love got no playtime before even though he was a stud then.

The only big surprise in my mind is Beasley. Wouldnt vote him MIP either but he's a bigger shock than the previously mentioned.

+ Felton gets most of his asts (I assume watching the knicks play the Raps) through pick and roll with Amare.

fadedmario
01-27-2011, 12:53 PM
Love and DeRozan

BrahCake954
01-27-2011, 01:00 PM
kevin love and westbrooke didnt really improve much, they were good last yr..

derozan cant shoot, rebound, assist, make 3's, blocks, etc.. all he can do is rely on athletism to get to the hoop. and he only has a 12.8 PER rating..

dorrell wright or beasley for MIP

plus derozan looks like a pirahnna :facepalm:

Hawkeye15
01-27-2011, 01:15 PM
Maybe, but I honestly expected him to have worse percentages with an increased load. Surprisingly, he has not. In fact his Fg and 3pt% are technically career highs.

and his rebound rate is a career low and his turnover rate is a career high. Look, Beasley is a talented scorer, but overall, he is about the same player effective wise, but he just gets more minutes and shot attempts. I think he is slightly improved, don't get me wrong. But he hasnt made the jump of his own teammate, let alone a few others out there.

Jets012
01-27-2011, 01:20 PM
Love has definitly approved loads for last year, but isnt he suppose to do as he is getting older and he is getting more experience? In my opinion, the debate should be whether or not Love should be looked at for this award. If i had to pick someone besides Love, it would be either Felton, Young, or Humphries.

John Walls Era
01-27-2011, 01:46 PM
I don't even care about MIP. Its not even a good award, and I doubt players care about it. They don't need a trophy to know they improved. Theres something called a statbox for that.

John Walls Era
01-27-2011, 01:47 PM
Love is getting it though. Props to him.

The Embassy
01-27-2011, 01:48 PM
no. he has no chance.

barreleffact
01-27-2011, 01:59 PM
and his rebound rate is a career low and his turnover rate is a career high. Look, Beasley is a talented scorer, but overall, he is about the same player effective wise, but he just gets more minutes and shot attempts. I think he is slightly improved, don't get me wrong. But he hasnt made the jump of his own teammate, let alone a few others out there.

true, but for the record i did specify that he wouldnt get my MIP vote. Im just more surprised by him than felton or love.

BkOriginalOne
01-27-2011, 02:12 PM
He's top 5 MIP

thekmp211
01-27-2011, 02:15 PM
his stats look bad because he's really only broken out in the last few weeks...he is playing better than a 12.8 PER would indicate.

good to see him figuring it out. thought for a second he might be the next gerald green. with a 3 point shot he could definitely be a star in the future.

Hawkeye15
01-27-2011, 02:15 PM
true, but for the record i did specify that he wouldnt get my MIP vote. Im just more surprised by him than felton or love.

fair enough. Beasley will improve. I only watched him play in college, then probably 30 times with Miami. He has a stronger work ethic than I thought he did, and you can tell he wants to get better. I think Rambis could up his efficiency by using him more off screens and cuts, instead of running him on isolations so much, Beasley may get far easier looks.

Hawkeye15
01-27-2011, 02:16 PM
his stats look bad because he's really only broken out in the last few weeks...he is playing better than a 12.8 PER would indicate.

good to see him figuring it out. thought for a second he might be the next gerald green. with a 3 point shot he could definitely be a star in the future.

well, unfortunately the award starts game 1, and ends game 82. Remember Milisap was the clear cut favorite after week 3, but Love is been doing it for 45 games.

Raps18-19 Champ
01-27-2011, 02:16 PM
Love, Felton, Westbrook, Beasley, and Gordon have the top 5.

I think if he brings his socring up to the high teens, he might get into top 5 consideration but he should finish top 10 consideration by seasons end.

Madtown22
01-27-2011, 03:49 PM
DARKO! HE has improved a ton but not to the level of MIP!

fadedmario
01-27-2011, 04:15 PM
kevin love and westbrooke didnt really improve much, they were good last yr..

derozan cant shoot, rebound, assist, make 3's, blocks, etc.. all he can do is rely on athletism to get to the hoop. and he only has a 12.8 PER rating..

dorrell wright or beasley for MIP

plus derozan looks like a pirahnna :facepalm:

Your crazy... :facepalm:

dtmagnet
01-27-2011, 05:12 PM
Maybe if he had been playing this well since the start of the season, but he's really only turned the lights on since late December until now. Next year will be a better year for people to judge his talent.

thekmp211
01-27-2011, 05:13 PM
well, unfortunately the award starts game 1, and ends game 82. Remember Milisap was the clear cut favorite after week 3, but Love is been doing it for 45 games.

please dont mistake my comment as an endorsement. even if he'd been more consistent at the beginning of the season love would have him beat.

Hawkeye15
01-27-2011, 05:14 PM
please dont mistake my comment as an endorsement. even if he'd been more consistent at the beginning of the season love would have him beat.

oh I didn't. Just wanted to add clarification to it for someone stumbling upon it.

thenyknicks
01-27-2011, 05:14 PM
no

SA5195
01-27-2011, 05:17 PM
Nope. It was expected that his #'s would go up cause of Bosh leaving.

Love, Beasley, Felton, Westbrook should all be considered.

cargobox
01-27-2011, 05:23 PM
Eric Gordon

Chateamsfan
01-27-2011, 05:40 PM
D.J. Augustin.

BrahCake954
01-27-2011, 05:54 PM
Your crazy... :facepalm:

not really, stop looking at nba career logs, he had nights like this last yr while getting benched all the time from rambis.. hed only get 15-20 mins a game for the 1st part of last season.. get ur facts str8 sonny.. love had a 24 PER last yr with 26 mins a game.. thats elite