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View Full Version : Is Ray Allen the best 3-pt shooter of all time?



xnick5757
01-26-2011, 06:34 PM
Right now he is only 21 3s away from breaking Reggie Miller record for most 3s made.

and he is currently ahead in 3pt % - .398 to Miller's .395.


when he breaks the most 3s record, would you consider him the greatest 3pt shooter of all time?

and do you think the record will ever be broken again? it seems that player these days don't put the same effort into improving/maintaining their game like Miller and Ray did/do.


EDIT: And also he has a very good chance to be the 8th member of the 50-40-90 club; his current stats are 50.5 from the field, .453 from 3pt land, and .863 from the free throw line.

abe_froman
01-26-2011, 06:35 PM
yes,yes he is

Hawkeye15
01-26-2011, 06:39 PM
um, no. Ray is a GREAT shooter, but guys like Nash, Barros, Hornacek, Dale Ellis, are better imo. Ray has hit a ton, but there are guys who have also hit well over 4000 of them on better percentages.

Hustlenomics
01-26-2011, 06:40 PM
yes he is

xnick5757
01-26-2011, 06:45 PM
um, no. Ray is a GREAT shooter, but guys like Nash, Barros, Hornacek, Dale Ellis, are better imo. Ray has hit a ton, but there are guys who have also hit well over 4000 of them on better percentages.

nash has made >1000 less then ray

barros has made >1500 less

Hornacek has made >1700 less

ellis has made >800 less

and no one has hit more then 2560, so I don't know where your number of 4000 is from.

Hawkeye15
01-26-2011, 06:47 PM
nash has made >1000 less then ray

barros has made >1500 less

Hornacek has made >1700 less

ellis has made >800 less

and no one has hit more then 2560, so I don't know where your number of 4000 is from.

I meant attempted, my bad.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/default_all_time_leaders/AllTimeLeadersFG3Query.html?topic=4&stat=7

and if the term is changed to: "Best high volume three point shooter", then I can agree on Ray. For every 1000 attempts, Nash his an extra 30+ though. There have just been better three point shooters, but Ray has consistently shot a ton of them, with a very respectable percentage.

xnick5757
01-26-2011, 06:49 PM
I meant attempted, my bad.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/default_all_time_leaders/AllTimeLeadersFG3Query.html?topic=4&stat=7

and if the term is changed to: "Best high volume three point shooter", then I can agree on Ray. For every 1000 attempts, Nash his an extra 30+ though. There have just been better three point shooters, but Ray has consistently shot a ton of them, with a very respectable percentage.

nash has a sample size that is almost 3k smaller then rays.

hgtiger32
01-26-2011, 06:49 PM
I meant attempted, my bad.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/default_all_time_leaders/AllTimeLeadersFG3Query.html?topic=4&stat=7

and if the term is changed to: "Best high volume three point shooter", then I can agree on Ray. For every 1000 attempts, Nash his an extra 30+ though. There have just been better three point shooters, but Ray has consistently shot a ton of them, with a very respectable percentage.

but I doubt that if he would shoot as many 3's as Allen has that he would have that same good percentage.

Hands down, Ray-Ray is the best 3 point shooter in NBA history with Reggie right behind him

Raph12
01-26-2011, 06:50 PM
No, not the best, but definitely up there with the others...

Hawkeye15
01-26-2011, 06:51 PM
nash has a sample size that is almost 3k smaller then rays.

its still a plenty big sample size though. If I were to say Curry is better, then you could use that. Rewarding Ray for his gaudy attempt number is no a proper way to look at it.
Like I said, if the term were changed to "Best high volume three point shooter" or something along those lines, then Ray and Reggie fight it out.

xnick5757
01-26-2011, 06:52 PM
its still a plenty big sample size though. If I were to say Curry is better, then you could use that. Rewarding Ray for his gaudy attempt number is no a proper way to look at it.
Like I said, if the term were changed to "Best high volume three point shooter" or something along those lines, then Ray and Reggie fight it out.

so do you think that if nash had shot 3k more 3s in his career that his % would be as high?

Hawkeye15
01-26-2011, 06:52 PM
but I doubt that if he would shoot as many 3's as Allen has that he would have that same good percentage.

Hands down, Ray-Ray is the best 3 point shooter in NBA history with Reggie right behind him

but that is speculation. What we do know is players like Peja and Dale Ellis have shot well over 4000 of them, and hit a better percentage. That is a plenty big enough sample size for us to gauge a player's accuracy.

I won't jump someone for saying Ray is the best. But I will defend my opinion, if that makes sense. :)

flclfanman
01-26-2011, 06:53 PM
No but he's pretty damn close.

bringinwood
01-26-2011, 06:54 PM
I would take Mark Price, Dana Barros, Wesley Person, Steve Kerr, Hubert Davis, Pat Garrity, Jeff Hornacek, Allan Houston, Glen Rice, Reggie Miller, Steve Nash, and probably even Dale Ellis over him in terms of consistency and percentage...

Miller and Rice made a lesser percentage but took significantly more shots than Allen...

He's not close to the best 3 point shooter of all time...

Hawkeye15
01-26-2011, 06:54 PM
so do you think that if nash had shot 3k more 3s in his career that his % would be as high?

not sure if it would be or not. But we do know Nash is arguably the best shooter of all time. Constantly hovering around 50/40/90. So I would argue that it would still be well over 40%

xnick5757
01-26-2011, 06:56 PM
not sure if it would be or not. But we do know Nash is arguably the best shooter of all time. Constantly hovering around 50/40/90. So I would argue that it would still be well over 40%

nash's stats get a boost by him being a PG, though.

still an awesome shooter though

Il Mago 7
01-26-2011, 07:00 PM
No Reggie Miller

bringinwood
01-26-2011, 07:01 PM
nash's stats get a boost by him being a PG, though.

still an awesome shooter though

In what regard ???

He's one of the best passers in NBA history as well as being one of the best shooters...

He isn't exactly chucking the ball up there Ricky Davis style...

xnick5757
01-26-2011, 07:02 PM
In what regard ???

He's one of the best passers in NBA history as well as being one of the best shooters...

He isn't exactly chucking the ball up there Ricky Davis style...

I just mean that as a PG, he gets to call the plays/bring the ball down the court.

and lol at ricky davis =D

latinofire21
01-26-2011, 07:18 PM
I like Ray Allen a lot but I still think Reggie Miller is the greatest of all time. My arguement might be moot when he breaks Reggies record but Reggie was the man on his team for the whole time in his career. Once Indiana had started to shift towards Oneal being the man in Indiana he retired. I still believe he retired 3 to 4 seasons to early. Ray Allen did the smart thing and paired up with other all stars to get his ring but I think that also kills his credibility verse Reggie who posted those numbers by himself for practically his whole career.

Reggie could have been doing the same thing and I think he would have distanced himself if he was allowed to become a spot up shooter.

DwayneMVPwade
01-26-2011, 07:19 PM
Yes

Corey
01-26-2011, 07:20 PM
Ray Allen is the best three point shooter of all time.

Ask Reggie Miller.

The Final Boss
01-26-2011, 07:26 PM
Larry Bird

AirCanada15ORL
01-26-2011, 07:31 PM
id say Mike James.



ha no but seriously give me Bonner. serious

arosen36
01-26-2011, 07:31 PM
Imma let you finish in a minute, but Beyonce is the best 3-shooter of all time

blue collar B
01-26-2011, 07:46 PM
no. I agree with what was said earlier. If we are going with volume shooters, then yes. But to me the best 3 point point shooters are the guys who shot the high percentage and usually stayed in the league because of this skill. (Kerr, Hornacek, Houston, and many more) It's just the way you worded the question. No doubt Ray Allen and Reggie were two of the best volume 3 point shooters. If we are talking pure shooting ability from the 3 point range, in my opinion no.

goose15
01-26-2011, 07:58 PM
1a - Allen
1b - Reggie

Khalifa21
01-26-2011, 08:00 PM
He's one of the best.

Nash is THE BEST shooter of all-time in my opinion though.

49/43/90 for his career is absolutely ****ing absurd.

sunsfan88
01-26-2011, 08:03 PM
Nash is defnitely in contest.

But Allen is my favorite shooter of All-Time.

marvILLous
01-26-2011, 08:04 PM
yessir

Mishmin
01-26-2011, 08:08 PM
I say yes. So pure.

And to the dude dropping names like Wesley Person.. Hubert Davis.. Pat Garrity.. come on, really?

Kashmir13579
01-26-2011, 08:11 PM
Ray Allen choked in the finals bigtime. he hit 8 3pt in game 2 then couldn't find the rim for the rest of the series. i watched him miss a lot of crucial (wide open) shots. for that reason alone, i say no.

BucktownUSA
01-26-2011, 08:13 PM
of this generation, yes

hgtiger32
01-26-2011, 08:13 PM
I like Ray Allen a lot but I still think Reggie Miller is the greatest of all time. My arguement might be moot when he breaks Reggies record but Reggie was the man on his team for the whole time in his career. Once Indiana had started to shift towards Oneal being the man in Indiana he retired. I still believe he retired 3 to 4 seasons to early. Ray Allen did the smart thing and paired up with other all stars to get his ring but I think that also kills his credibility verse Reggie who posted those numbers by himself for practically his whole career.

Reggie could have been doing the same thing and I think he would have distanced himself if he was allowed to become a spot up shooter.


Ray Allen would've put up those numbers if he was still the #1 option on a team and he'd also prolly have more shot attempts and ppg.

ragee
01-26-2011, 08:16 PM
Reggie Miller still got my vote on this...

AirCanada15ORL
01-26-2011, 08:16 PM
i rarely see Allen take many 3s off the dribble anymore and I think Reggie would be even better if he was a spot up 3 pt shooter (percentage wise which is scary)

too bad hes the most annoying ****ing announcer.

da wood
01-26-2011, 08:18 PM
i think curry would have to go in there too also jerry westoh by the way i'm not talking about steph either i'm talking about his daddy.

Hustlenomics
01-26-2011, 08:18 PM
Ray Allen choked in the finals bigtime. he hit 8 3pt in game 2 then couldn't find the rim for the rest of the series. i watched him miss a lot of crucial (wide open) shots. for that reason alone, i say no.

when has steve nash ever made the finals? (since people keep mentioning him)

Hawkeye15
01-26-2011, 08:21 PM
nash's stats get a boost by him being a PG, though.

still an awesome shooter though

how does shooting accuracy become effected by position played? You can either shoot, or you can't.

Punkindrublic03
01-26-2011, 08:23 PM
Ray Allen is the man. Best three point shooter of all time. he's wet from 3!

evadatam5150
01-26-2011, 08:23 PM
Right now he is only 21 3s away from breaking Reggie Miller record for most 3s made.

and he is currently ahead in 3pt % - .398 to Miller's .395.


when he breaks the most 3s record, would you consider him the greatest 3pt shooter of all time?

and do you think the record will ever be broken again? it seems that player these days don't put the same effort into improving/maintaining their game like Miller and Ray did/do.


EDIT: And also he has a very good chance to be the 8th member of the 50-40-90 club; his current stats are 50.5 from the field, .453 from 3pt land, and .863 from the free throw line.


No

Reggie Miller is the best 3 point shooter ever.. Allen is a close second.. Percentage wise you have to go to guys like Peja and Dale Ellis.. I agree, it's how you want to view it...


Khalifa21 He's one of the best.

Nash is THE BEST shooter of all-time in my opinion though.

49/43/90 for his career is absolutely ****ing absurd.

This is just a ridiculous post and doesn't even belong in here.. :bang:

Missing56&33
01-26-2011, 08:24 PM
I hate to say it .....trust me it pains me to say it but I'm trying to be honest here......I think Reggie Miller is the best 3ptshooter of all times. Ray is good though....he's up there.

evadatam5150
01-26-2011, 08:29 PM
Ray Allen would've put up those numbers if he was still the #1 option on a team and he'd also prolly have more shot attempts and ppg.

We are still basing our opinion on facts are we not...?? Let's leave the presumption of your fantasy world scenario out of this and let the numbers speak for themselves.. Statistically he doesn't have the highest percentage nor does he have the most three's ever made.. Though he's close on the latter.. Either way you look at it now, he's not the best in either class.. But the debate will rage on and you will keep spinning what if scenarios so sure, in a perfect world he's the best..

Sactown
01-26-2011, 08:33 PM
um, no. Ray is a GREAT shooter, but guys like Nash, Barros, Hornacek, Dale Ellis, are better imo. Ray has hit a ton, but there are guys who have also hit well over 4000 of them on better percentages.

Idk when he was in Seattle against Sactown in the playoffs he threw down from 3pt land.. I think he's better than the guys you listed when he was in his prime

Lakersfan2483
01-26-2011, 08:35 PM
He's definitely among the elite shooters of all time. I wouldn't say he's the best though. Players like Hodges, Curry, D. Eillis, S. Nash, R. Miller were all lethal from distance. I am going to go with Reggie Miller as the greatest 3 point shooter of all time.

Hawkeye15
01-26-2011, 08:36 PM
Idk when he was in Seattle against Sactown in the playoffs he threw down from 3pt land.. I think he's better than the guys you listed when he was in his prime

well, we aren't talking about PEAK (which I am still not sure Allen wins), we are talking overall. And I think there are guys who have a monster sample size who have hit a higher rate. Thats all

Lakersfan2483
01-26-2011, 08:37 PM
I don't know how I forgot about Peja Stojakovic? He was deadly from downtown also.

evadatam5150
01-26-2011, 08:37 PM
I just mean that as a PG, he gets to call the plays/bring the ball down the court.

and lol at ricky davis =D

Why are you defending your comment.. Either way Nash isn't the best shooter ever, he hasn't and wont score the most points, he doesn't have the highest career shooting percentage, he doesn't have the most assists in league history (in fact he isn't even close), and he's not even close to being in the running for best 3 point shooter of all time so I don't even know why his name is being brought up in the post at all..

This is silliness..

Again, you can make a case for either guy, Reggie or Allen.. Reggie has more at this point so he's my choice.. Allen has a higher percentage and will surely pass Miller unless something insane happens..

Sactown
01-26-2011, 08:40 PM
well, we aren't talking about PEAK, we are talking overall. And I think there are guys who have a monster sample size who have hit a higher rate. Thats all

Nash is a solid 3pt shooter, but because of his passing and dribbling skills he's aloud to get more space from defenders, but Allen is known to be a 3pt shooter so people body him up and put a hand in his face.. Allen would have easily passed Reggie if he didn't go to Boston IMO, but I also think his shooting % would be down for obvious reason. He played as the clear cut best player in Seattle and took them to the playoffs he's a skilled 3pt shooter and IMO best of all time

Sactown
01-26-2011, 08:40 PM
I don't know how I forgot about Peja Stojakovic? He was deadly from downtown also.

Till he injured his shooting hand

Hawkeye15
01-26-2011, 08:42 PM
Till he injured his shooting hand

yet he has over 4000 attempts and a better % than Allen

Sactown
01-26-2011, 08:44 PM
yet he has over 4000 attempts and a better % than Allen

I was so pissed when he injured that hand :/ Reggie ****ing Evans.. Peja was ballin

Hawkeye15
01-26-2011, 08:50 PM
Nash is a solid 3pt shooter, but because of his passing and dribbling skills he's aloud to get more space from defenders, but Allen is known to be a 3pt shooter so people body him up and put a hand in his face.. Allen would have easily passed Reggie if he didn't go to Boston IMO, but I also think his shooting % would be down for obvious reason. He played as the clear cut best player in Seattle and took them to the playoffs he's a skilled 3pt shooter and IMO best of all time

nobody sags off a 43% three point shooter dude. Ray Allen was far more than a 3 pt shooter btw, you know that. He shot off the dribble at a high rate, and attacked the rim.
I just don't get why Nash being a PG discounts anything when referring to accuracy. its not as if he was Kerr, a pure sniper who never took a contested 3 in his life.

KingPosey
01-26-2011, 08:52 PM
Why are you defending your comment.. Either way Nash isn't the best shooter ever, he hasn't and wont score the most points, he doesn't have the highest career shooting percentage, he doesn't have the most assists in league history (in fact he isn't even close), and he's not even close to being in the running for best 3 point shooter of all time so I don't even know why his name is being brought up in the post at all..

This is silliness..

Again, you can make a case for either guy, Reggie or Allen.. Reggie has more at this point so he's my choice.. Allen has a higher percentage and will surely pass Miller unless something insane happens..

So basically ur argument against nash, and for Reggie and Ray is as follows:
Whoever has the most, is the best at it?

Ezio
01-26-2011, 08:52 PM
Idc what others think Ray Allen is my favorite shooter. He's one of the best if not the best pure shooter ever.

Hawkeye15
01-26-2011, 08:53 PM
Idc what others think Ray Allen is my favorite shooter. He's one of the best if not the best pure shooter ever.

explain why though

Khalifa21
01-26-2011, 08:54 PM
This is just a ridiculous post and doesn't even belong in here.. :bang:

The **** you talking about?

The thread is called "Is Ray Allen the best 3-pt shooter of all time?". I responded by saying he's up there but Steve Nash is the best shooter of all-time. Mid-range, three point, free throw, whatever.

evadatam5150
01-26-2011, 09:04 PM
So basically ur argument against nash, and for Reggie and Ray is as follows:
Whoever has the most, is the best at it?

No.. My point is Nash doesn't belong in this conversation as best 3 point shooter of all time.. If you read my previous post I was quite clear on my stance.. It all depends on how you choose to look at it.. Miller has more 3's made, Allen has the better percentage.. Either way you look at it it's a toss up.. I simply think Miller was better.. Allen is a damn close second..

Hawkeye15
01-26-2011, 09:08 PM
No.. My point is Nash doesn't belong in this conversation as best 3 point shooter of all time.. If you read my previous post I was quite clear on my stance.. It all depends on how you choose to look at it.. Miller has more 3's made, Allen has the better percentage.. Either way you look at it it's a toss up.. I simply think Miller was better.. Allen is a damn close second..

how on earth does Nash not belong in the conversation? Because he didn't play SG, key word being SHOOTING? Nash is busy running a team, yet has squeezed out a sample size easily large enough for us to rate him.

shep33
01-26-2011, 09:09 PM
I think Nash is a better shooter, but Ray's stroke is so sweet. People gotta remember that Ray is more than just a shooter though.

evadatam5150
01-26-2011, 09:10 PM
The **** you talking about?

The thread is called "Is Ray Allen the best 3-pt shooter of all time?". I responded by saying he's up there but Steve Nash is the best shooter of all-time. Mid-range, three point, free throw, whatever.

You're just being a homer..

Player FGM FGA FG%

Artis Gilmore 5,732 9,570 .599
Mark West 2,528 4,356 .580
Shaquille O'Neal 8,670 15,020 .577
Steve Johnson 2,841 4,965 .572
Darryl Dawkins 3,477 6,079 .572
James Donaldson 3,105 5,442 .571
Jeff Ruland 2,105 3,734 .564
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 15,837 28,307 .559
Kevin McHale 6,830 12,334 .554
Bobby Jones 3,412 6,199 .550
Buck Williams 6,404 11,661 .549
Larry Nance 6,370 11,664 .546
Otis Thorpe 6,872 12,593 .546
Cedric Maxwell 3,433 6,293 .546
Charles Barkley 8,435 15,605 .541
Adrian Dantley 8,169 15,121 .540
Wilt Chamberlain 12,681 23,497 .540
Gene Banks 2,134 3,961 .539
Swen Nater 2,432 4,528 .537
Robert Parish 9,614 17,914 .537
Dale Davis 3,438 6,447 .533
Brad Daugherty 3,823 7,189 .532
Larry Smith 2,519 4,743 .531
Calvin Natt 4,003 7,580 .528
Bill Cartwright

BADizzleBoY
01-26-2011, 09:11 PM
Absolutely in my mind, and if not he is damn close. Only specialist I could think even be discussed in the same breath as Allen is Reggie Miller.

evadatam5150
01-26-2011, 09:17 PM
how on earth does Nash not belong in the conversation? Because he didn't play SG, key word being SHOOTING? Nash is busy running a team, yet has squeezed out a sample size easily large enough for us to rate him.

I don't recall saying anything about him not being a shooting guard.. He's clearly not the best 3 point shooter of all time..

Storch
01-26-2011, 09:21 PM
It's nearly impossible to say who's the best, but I would say top 5 for sure. Everything is arguable.

Fnom11
01-26-2011, 09:28 PM
All of Allen's shots are wide open too, imagine if reggie on the celtics with 4 picks

Reggie>Allen

Sactown
01-26-2011, 09:31 PM
All of Allen's shots are wide open too, imagine if reggie on the celtics with 4 picks

Reggie>Allen

Allen even at his age moves surprisingly well without the ball.. and Ray Ray was a killer 3pt shooter pre celtic era.. If anything Boston has made his 3pt shot attempts go down.. but on the other hand his % go up

avrpatsfan
01-26-2011, 09:32 PM
So far he is. Both volume and percentage proves the case. Sure Nash has a higher percentage but Ray has done it longer and more often.

Khalifa21
01-26-2011, 09:44 PM
You're just being a homer..

Player FGM FGA FG%

Artis Gilmore 5,732 9,570 .599
Mark West 2,528 4,356 .580
Shaquille O'Neal 8,670 15,020 .577
Steve Johnson 2,841 4,965 .572
Darryl Dawkins 3,477 6,079 .572
James Donaldson 3,105 5,442 .571
Jeff Ruland 2,105 3,734 .564
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 15,837 28,307 .559
Kevin McHale 6,830 12,334 .554
Bobby Jones 3,412 6,199 .550
Buck Williams 6,404 11,661 .549
Larry Nance 6,370 11,664 .546
Otis Thorpe 6,872 12,593 .546
Cedric Maxwell 3,433 6,293 .546
Charles Barkley 8,435 15,605 .541
Adrian Dantley 8,169 15,121 .540
Wilt Chamberlain 12,681 23,497 .540
Gene Banks 2,134 3,961 .539
Swen Nater 2,432 4,528 .537
Robert Parish 9,614 17,914 .537
Dale Davis 3,438 6,447 .533
Brad Daugherty 3,823 7,189 .532
Larry Smith 2,519 4,743 .531
Calvin Natt 4,003 7,580 .528
Bill Cartwright

Homer? I'm a Knicks fan :confused:

Every player you posted is a big man. So according to your logic Shaq is a better shooter than Steve Nash? And Wilt is as well?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...

fulleffect06
01-26-2011, 09:46 PM
Wait people play defense in the NBA?

fadedmario
01-26-2011, 09:50 PM
Reggie Miller was better

fulleffect06
01-26-2011, 09:51 PM
Reggie Miller was better

agreed he played in a WAY better era of basketball.

Duncan = Donkey
01-26-2011, 09:55 PM
No. He may hit alot of 3's but not at a great percentage.

valade16
01-26-2011, 10:09 PM
explain why though

Because although Allens % is lower than pejas or ellis', its barely lower, .05 or less lower to be exact, which isn't a big difference.

Speaking as a "3-pt specialist" on the court, its way easier to hit threes on only 2 or 3 3's a game than to hit em shootin 7 or 8 unless your hot.

With nash, people know he'll shoot some 3's, but theyre spread out over the game and so it isnt your main priority guarding him, where as with allen the 3 is first and foremost on your mind...

That being said, reggie, allen, and nash are SO good at shooting it's essentially pointless to quantify who is better...

valade16
01-26-2011, 10:10 PM
No. He may hit alot of 3's but not at a great percentage.

So a .398 percentage is not good but peja's .401 is?!

I'm Seriously
01-26-2011, 10:13 PM
Nash is definitely in the conversation for the greatest shooter ever, in fact statistically he is the greatest shooter ever.

He has by far the most 50-40-90 seasons ever.

He almost averages 50-40-90 for his his career

And most of his shots come off the dribble.

Nash in my IMO is the greatest shooter ever.

Baller1
01-26-2011, 10:14 PM
Yes, best 3 point shooter of all time.

Hawkeye15
01-26-2011, 10:16 PM
I don't recall saying anything about him not being a shooting guard.. He's clearly not the best 3 point shooter of all time..

and how do you plan to prove that Nash is "clearly" not the best 3 pt shooter?

Hawkeye15
01-26-2011, 10:18 PM
Because although Allens % is lower than pejas or ellis', its barely lower, .05 or less lower to be exact, which isn't a big difference.

Speaking as a "3-pt specialist" on the court, its way easier to hit threes on only 2 or 3 3's a game than to hit em shootin 7 or 8 unless your hot.

With nash, people know he'll shoot some 3's, but theyre spread out over the game and so it isnt your main priority guarding him, where as with allen the 3 is first and foremost on your mind...

That being said, reggie, allen, and nash are SO good at shooting it's essentially pointless to quantify who is better...

as I said, Nash shoots a much higher percentage, with a huge sample size. I also stated, if the term was "who is the best volume three point shooter ever", then sure, its Ray soon. But Nash's job is a lot more than scoring, hence his attempts being lower (although still by far enough to gauge)

bulls_world23
01-26-2011, 10:22 PM
no doubt about it... i wish we signed him.... its ok we have bogans......lol

valade16
01-26-2011, 10:38 PM
as I said, Nash shoots a much higher percentage, with a huge sample size. I also stated, if the term was "who is the best volume three point shooter ever", then sure, its Ray soon. But Nash's job is a lot more than scoring, hence his attempts being lower (although still by far enough to gauge)

Yes its a higher percentage, however over 1,000 shots he'd make 30 more. If he'd have shot the 6,000 shots allen has he'd have made 180 more than him, 500 more points. So it's not enough in my opinion to say it proves he's a better 3-pt shooter.

I say that because I've watched both play a lot, and Nash isn't taking nearly as tough of shots as allen is during the majority of their careers. Everyone brings up how open he's been on the celtics, while disregarding the majority of his career, where he had a much tougher time.

Just opinion though. I will say one of the most underrated shooters ever was allan houston, man was straight money.

Hawkeye15
01-26-2011, 10:42 PM
Yes its a higher percentage, however over 1,000 shots he'd make 30 more. If he'd have shot the 6,000 shots allen has he'd have made 180 more than him, 500 more points. So it's not enough in my opinion to say it proves he's a better 3-pt shooter.

I say that because I've watched both play a lot, and Nash isn't taking nearly as tough of shots as allen is during the majority of their careers. Everyone brings up how open he's been on the celtics, while disregarding the majority of his career, where he had a much tougher time.

Just opinion though. I will say one of the most underrated shooters ever was allan houston, man was straight money.

Nash shoots a heavy percentage off the dribble, which is far harder than what Ray does, which is catch in stride, square up, and release.

Well, I am done with this. Ray is an unreal shooter. But I think there are better. Oh well

kingkenny01
01-26-2011, 10:42 PM
i think ray allen is but to throw a name that i think should be in the debate it is michael redd, he hold the record for most threes in a quarter i think
if not injury he is an amazing shooter

TylerSL
01-26-2011, 10:48 PM
no, Ray Allen is the 2nd best 3 point shooter all time
Steve Nash is infact the #1 3 point shooter ever.

Steve Nash Career 3pt%-.430% (1528/3550)
Ray Allen Career 3pt%-.398% (2540/6388)
Reggie Miller Career 3pt%-395% (2560/6486)

winner, Steve Nash

highest 3pt% in a single season
Steve Nash-.455%
Ray Allen-.453%
Reggie Miller-.429%

winner, Steve Nash

most seasons with .400%+ 3pt%
Steve Nash-13 (11 in a row to this day)
Ray Allen-6 (3 in a row at one point)
Reggie Miller-10 (5 in a row at one point)

winner, Steve Nash

most seasons in 40%/50%/90% seasons (3pt%/FG%/FT%)
Steve Nash-4 (3 in a row to this day)
Ray Allen-0
Reggie Miller-1

Ray Allen has took 2838 more 3 point shots than Steve Nash, and only has 1012 more, and Reggie Miller has taken 2936 more than Nash and has only made 1032 more. If Steve Nash were to take as many shots as Ray Allen he would have made 2748 shots. If we were to take as many as Reggie Miller, he would have made 2790. That would crush their records. Steve Nash is easily the best 3pt shooter ever.

Man, I knew Steve Nash was AMAZING, but WOW after looking at these stats (I didnt even know this until I decided to look) he is the clear cut best shooter ever, by far too!!! 11 straight years of .400%+ 3pt seasons. His age from this period has gone from 25-36 and his 40%/50%/90% he has gone from 33-36 during that period. He has literally gotten better with his age. INSANE

valade16
01-26-2011, 10:48 PM
Nash shoots a heavy percentage off the dribble, which is far harder than what Ray does, which is catch in stride, square up, and release.

Well, I am done with this. Ray is an unreal shooter. But I think there are better. Oh well

Off the dribble is slightly misleading, hes not driving then suddenly pulling up to drop treys. He's usually dribbling in place at the top of key and surprises the defender by pulling up. Having shot that a billion times, its an easy shot when your in rhythm.

Allen was a master at coming off screens, but many times he'd be so well guarded he'd have to catch and shoot in less than a second. Rushing your shot can really screw up your follow through and rhythm.

Just what I observed though

Sactown
01-26-2011, 10:50 PM
Nash shoots a heavy percentage off the dribble, which is far harder than what Ray does, which is catch in stride, square up, and release.

Well, I am done with this. Ray is an unreal shooter. But I think there are better. Oh well

And in Rays position I don't think Nash would be as affective as Ray Allen.. Just like I assume Ray Allen wouldn't be nearly as affective playing Nash's role.. they play two separate styles really hard to compare the two..

Sactown
01-26-2011, 10:52 PM
Also part of Rays skill is his superb movement without the ball..

Hawkeye15
01-26-2011, 10:53 PM
And in Rays position I don't think Nash would be as affective as Ray Allen.. Just like I assume Ray Allen wouldn't be nearly as affective playing Nash's role.. they play two separate styles really hard to compare the two..

they play different positions, so neither would be as effective as the other if they switched positions...

comparing shooters is kinda easy. When they have a crapload of attempts, whomever shoots better percentage, wins

Sactown
01-26-2011, 10:56 PM
they play different positions, so neither would be as effective as the other if they switched positions...

comparing shooters is kinda easy. When they have a crapload of attempts, whomever shoots better percentage, wins

I don't think that dictates who's the better shooter.. Ray Allen isn't going to cross you over like Nash is.. which means defenders give Nash more space making his attempts easier..

Hawkeye15
01-26-2011, 10:59 PM
I don't think that dictates who's the better shooter.. Ray Allen isn't going to cross you over like Nash is.. which means defenders give Nash more space making his attempts easier..

it decides who is better when the sample size is huge, and the percentage difference is large. At least to me

valade16
01-26-2011, 11:01 PM
they play different positions, so neither would be as effective as the other if they switched positions...

comparing shooters is kinda easy. When they have a crapload of attempts, whomever shoots better percentage, wins

So because shaq has a higher percentage down low he's a better shooter than olajuwan?:eyebrow:

Straight percentage doesn't tell the whole story. Seriously, when did people who only care Bout stats take over judging nba talent?

NickyNick
01-26-2011, 11:04 PM
it decides who is better when the sample size is huge, and the percentage difference is large. At least to me

but the sample sizes aren't close....

valade16
01-26-2011, 11:09 PM
but the sample sizes aren't close....

I'm with Hawkeye on this one. 4,000 shots is more than Enough to judge his ability. After that many, are the next 1,000 REALLY gonna change your opinion or drastically affect his percentage?

No way

bears88
01-26-2011, 11:09 PM
nope he is the 2nd best. The only guy I consider the best three point shooter would be Reggie Miller.

NickyNick
01-26-2011, 11:13 PM
I'm with Hawkeye on this one. 4,000 shots is more than Enough to judge his ability. After that many, are the next 1,000 REALLY gonna change your opinion or drastically affect his percentage?

No way

u realize hawkeye is the biggest celtic hater here and will do anything to discredit any player on the C's?

also i think 1000 is a pretty big difference and your percentage can only go down

97NYer
01-26-2011, 11:15 PM
yes, prettiest jumper also

Kevj77
01-26-2011, 11:17 PM
I wonder what some other pure shooters would have done with the 3 point line. How good of a 3 point shooter would Jerry West been if there was a 3 point line during his career.

valade16
01-26-2011, 11:17 PM
u realize hawkeye is the biggest celtic hater here and will do anything to discredit any player on the C's?

also i think 1000 is a pretty big difference and your percentage can only go down

I didn't know that about hawkeye, nor have I observed that in threads I've been in with him.

Secondly, that isn't true. Jordan's 2nd 1,000 3's were at a lot higher percentage than his first 1,000...

whitemamba33
01-26-2011, 11:25 PM
I love Ray Allen's game...But Nash is an incredible shooter.

NickyNick
01-26-2011, 11:25 PM
ray is still number 2 to me

69centers
01-26-2011, 11:27 PM
Number of seasons a players has knocked down 200+ 3's:

Ray Allen - 4
Reggie Miller - 2
Steve Nash - 0
Dale Ellis - 0

Attempts and percentages shouldn't hold that much weight. Do you discredit a home run hitter in baseball if he gets up to the plate 50 more times than the next guy and hits more dingers? Commentators will throw out the home runs per AB stat now and then, but in the end, the man with the most in the end is all that counts. You hit a home run, you've done well for your team. Same with 3 pointers. They're better in masses!

You can say there were more accurate 3 point shooters, but as far as prolifically knocking them down, no one's better than Ray.

NickyNick
01-26-2011, 11:27 PM
I didn't know that about hawkeye, nor have I observed that in threads I've been in with him.

Secondly, that isn't true. Jordan's 2nd 1,000 3's were at a lot higher percentage than his first 1,000...

haha o really?? go into the "guarding rondo" thread, or any other thread discussing KG or pierce....but hey if my team were the wolves id be pissed too

you realize thats michael jordan right? why dont you chose someone else for a comparison to be fair

JNA17
01-26-2011, 11:31 PM
yes

sugarrayray
01-26-2011, 11:34 PM
um, no. Ray is a GREAT shooter, but guys like Nash, Barros, Hornacek, Dale Ellis, are better imo. Ray has hit a ton, but there are guys who have also hit well over 4000 of them on better percentages.

Wow, it's just amazing what people can convince themselves. Barros?? Hornacek?? Nash??? BARROS!?!?!?!?!

Ray Allen is without a doubt the best pure shooter to ever play in the NBA. Not only is he cracking the record with a higher percentage than Reggie Miller, he's done it with more efficiency, achieving this feat in less years than Miller.

Miller took 18 full years to get his total amount. Ray will pass him in only 14 and a half years. That is pretty amazing.

The fact that anyone could say some one like Nash or Barros is better is really just unbelievable. But then like I said, people can convince themselves to believe anything.

Chronz
01-26-2011, 11:34 PM
I really didnt think a debate would spark from all this. Hes proven himself by now, nobody has his quickness on the release and nobody has made more in such a short amount of time in a slower paced environment.

sugarrayray
01-26-2011, 11:37 PM
Number of seasons a players has knocked down 200+ 3's:

Ray Allen - 4
Reggie Miller - 2
Steve Nash - 0
Dale Ellis - 0

Attempts and percentages shouldn't hold that much weight. Do you discredit a home run hitter in baseball if he gets up to the plate 50 more times than the next guy and hits more dingers? Commentators will throw out the home runs per AB stat now and then, but in the end, the man with the most in the end is all that counts. You hit a home run, you've done well for your team. Same with 3 pointers. They're better in masses!

You can say there were more accurate 3 point shooters, but as far as prolifically knocking them down, no one's better than Ray.

I agree with what you said pretty much, but your stats are off.

Ray Allen has made more than 200 3s in his career 5 different seasons, whereas Reggie Miller has only done it one time.

69centers
01-26-2011, 11:40 PM
I agree with what you said pretty much, but your stats are off.

Ray Allen has made more than 200 3s in his career 5 different seasons, whereas Reggie Miller has only done it one time.

No, Ray only did it 4 times (one year he hit 199), but I stand corrected on Miller, it was only once.

Ray - 4
Reggie - 1
Nash - 0
Ellis - 0

Lake_Show2416
01-26-2011, 11:41 PM
Bird

sugarrayray
01-26-2011, 11:43 PM
nope he is the 2nd best. The only guy I consider the best three point shooter would be Reggie Miller.

Well, your wrong. The stats prove he's better. There's really no way around it at all. He has a higher 3 point shooting % and he's made more in less time.

So........?

kgjfan243
01-26-2011, 11:44 PM
best overall shooter, but i dont know about best 3-pt shooter

sugarrayray
01-26-2011, 11:47 PM
No, Ray only did it 4 times (one year he hit 199), but I stand corrected on Miller, it was only once.

Ray - 4
Reggie - 1
Nash - 0
Ellis - 0

No. He did it 5.

I really don't know what your looking at?

2000-2001 = 202
2001-2002 = 229
2002-2003 = 201
2004-2005 = 209
2005-2006 = 269


And by the way people. 269 3 pointers in 78 games. No one ever has or ever will do that again.

TylerSL
01-27-2011, 12:07 AM
Nash shoots a heavy percentage off the dribble, which is far harder than what Ray does, which is catch in stride, square up, and release.

Well, I am done with this. Ray is an unreal shooter. But I think there are better. Oh well

I proved Nash is better with my post, dont worry :up:

thekmp211
01-27-2011, 01:56 AM
ray was not always shooting off screens and spot ups. he handled the ball a lot more and went off the the dribble a lot more during his years with the bucks and sonics.

LA_Raiders
01-27-2011, 02:28 AM
NO, He is Top 3 IMO... They hit when it counts the most...

Miller Time
Bird
Ray

Chronz
01-27-2011, 02:37 AM
No. He did it 5.

I really don't know what your looking at?

2000-2001 = 202
2001-2002 = 229
2002-2003 = 201
2004-2005 = 209
2005-2006 = 269


And by the way people. 269 3 pointers in 78 games. No one ever has or ever will do that again.
You have one of more original monikers on here, and yes Ray is the GOAT shooter. Too bad his teams never played D

JiffyMix88
01-27-2011, 02:52 AM
HAHA YES just look at the sig baby!

The_Mac22
01-27-2011, 02:58 AM
To answer the OP's question, yes, he is the best 3-point shooter of all time.

Ray Allen is a man amongst boys out there.

gatkins11
01-27-2011, 03:16 AM
Ray Allen has the prettiest jump shot in the game. Period.

BRICKCITYPIMP12
01-27-2011, 03:17 AM
ray is mad nice.
and yes yes he is.

barreleffact
01-27-2011, 04:02 AM
Right now he is only 21 3s away from breaking Reggie Miller record for most 3s made.

and he is currently ahead in 3pt % - .398 to Miller's .395.


when he breaks the most 3s record, would you consider him the greatest 3pt shooter of all time?

and do you think the record will ever be broken again? it seems that player these days don't put the same effort into improving/maintaining their game like Miller and Ray did/do.


EDIT: And also he has a very good chance to be the 8th member of the 50-40-90 club; his current stats are 50.5 from the field, .453 from 3pt land, and .863 from the free throw line.

How? half the games have been played and he would need to shoot well over 90% to get that 90% mark the rest of the way. His chances dont look good at all of becoming the 8th member.

And I cant see him as the best of all time just because I cant recall any big threes he's hit nor anything that impressive. He doesnt have ice in his veins like pierce has shown or miller did or bird regardless of career percentages.

JiffyMix88
01-27-2011, 04:43 AM
How? half the games have been played and he would need to shoot well over 90% to get that 90% mark the rest of the way. His chances dont look good at all of becoming the 8th member.

And I cant see him as the best of all time just because I cant recall any big threes he's hit nor anything that impressive. He doesnt have ice in his veins like pierce has shown or miller did or bird regardless of career percentages.

k heres what you need to do. go to youtube.com search for ray allen game winners i bet you find more ray allen buzzer beaters than miller and hes hit soooo many clutch shots this is a ridiculous statement.

dodie53
01-27-2011, 04:47 AM
nash is the best

barreleffact
01-27-2011, 05:29 AM
k heres what you need to do. go to youtube.com search for ray allen game winners i bet you find more ray allen buzzer beaters than miller and hes hit soooo many clutch shots this is a ridiculous statement.

Ray is a beast but I cant consider him the best 3pt shooter with so many other options. I cant fault those that do though. and youtube isnt the best point. it can make t-mac look as good as jordan.

JiffyMix88
01-27-2011, 05:41 AM
Ray is a beast but I cant consider him the best 3pt shooter with so many other options. I cant fault those that do though. and youtube isnt the best point. it can make t-mac look as good as jordan.

i didnt say look at highlight mixes look at the buzzer beaters he has soo many

BkOriginalOne
01-27-2011, 06:06 AM
Reggie has it huge shots in his career, but nothing to what Ray did in the Celtics Finals RUn. And to think, Reggie Miller was being courted by the Celtics that year.... what would have been...?
Still, Ray is the best 3pt shooter of all time.

FadeAwayLikeMJ
01-27-2011, 12:30 PM
Ray Allen is the best three point shooter of all time.

Ask Reggie Miller.

Co-sign


HAHA YES just look at the sig baby!

Greatest sig in PSD history!!!

satui10
01-27-2011, 12:35 PM
yes absolutely and its even more impressive seeing that he's about to surpass what Reggie did in 18 years in just 14 years and I'll think he'll keep going strong and set the record even higher...ray blows me away with his poise and his dedication to get even better no matter his age...kinda like grant hill in phoenix, just with a ring and better percentages....

JordansBulls
01-27-2011, 12:55 PM
IMO he is not. I'd be more scared with Bird or Miller taking a 3 to win the game than Ray.

ChiDougie19
01-27-2011, 01:03 PM
yes!

ManningToTyree
01-27-2011, 01:03 PM
hard to say no with those numbers

Hawkeye15
01-27-2011, 01:13 PM
but the sample sizes aren't close....

they don't need to be. They are both large enough. That is all that matters.

Ebbs
01-27-2011, 01:18 PM
Yes probably

smith&wesson
01-27-2011, 01:31 PM
nash best all around shooter.

allen best 3 point shooter.

tbomlad
01-27-2011, 01:44 PM
Nash is the greatest hands down. No one in the history of basketball will come close to his .431 percentage with over 1500 attempted. Ray Allen is not even close.

BenFrank
01-27-2011, 01:49 PM
I'ma Say Miller is, because he didn't have the All-Star talent around him to get him open shots.. he worked for all his 3's

PhillyFaninLA
01-27-2011, 01:54 PM
I'd take Larry Bird over Reggie or Ray.


edit: Some of the 3 point specialist off the bench might even be better 3 point shooters but aren't good enough at other things to get more playing time. When Steve Kerr was on the Bulls he may have been one of the best 3 point shooters ever for that stretch but he didn't do anything else so we don't usually think about players like him.

KnicksorBust
01-27-2011, 02:08 PM
After reading through the thread it seems like there are a couple of schools of thought. It's a great debate though and from what I've read it breaks down into a simple issue of preference:

1. Do you prefer to use pure percentages? Because then it's Steve Kerr (or god forbid Jason Kapono).
2. Do you set a bar of minimum shots required and then use pure percentage? Because then it's Steve Nash who has taken plenty of threes (like Hawkeye has accurately pointed out) and has a higher percentage than the leads in made and attempted.
3. Do you favor a guy who can carry an offense and still shoot an elite percentage? Because then it's Ray Allen, Reggie Miller or Larry Bird.

Now me, I don't believe for a second that a guy like Kerr or Kapono could fit into that third category. It's those last two categories that get interesting. Allen and Miller could put up seasons of 25ppg and still shoot 40% from 3pt with defenses keying on them. Then you have some guys like Peja who could fit into this category as well. It's a tough call.

My personal preference is Ray Allen. The level of difficulty involved in his 3's over the year with such a high percentage and that he will go down as #1 all-time in made makes him the choice.