PDA

View Full Version : Is Carmello trying to make a better team?



mrblisterdundee
01-24-2011, 11:19 PM
At the end of this season, Denver nixes more than $16.5 million with Kenyon Martin's contract expiring. That's enough to sign a max player without trading anyone else on the roster. Could it be that Carmello's demanding a trade so that Denver grabs another all-star to take the team to the next level, thus keeping him around?
Don't forget last season. Even with its current roster, Denver took it to the defending champions. It's got a decent point guard in Chauncey Billups, not to mention Ty Lawson coming up in the league. It's got a headcase who can drop 20 to 30 on any given night in J.R. Smith. It's got a defensive spark plug in Chris Anderson. Finally, it has one of the best centers in the league in Nene Hilario. It's got a highly talented roster and massive financial flexibility after this season.
I'm starting to think that Carmello's just pushing Denver to take Martin's expiring contract and turn it into an all-star addition that will make Denver even more powerful than Los Angeles. What do you think?

beasted86
01-24-2011, 11:23 PM
Please read this: http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

Mods, please close this thread.

mrblisterdundee
01-24-2011, 11:40 PM
Please read this: http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

Mods, please close this thread.

The NBA has a soft cap. Besides, the presence of a cap doesn't change the fact that Denver can greatly improve after losing Martin's huge contract. Take your moronic suggestion of closure and shove it up your ***.

jimbobjarree
01-24-2011, 11:44 PM
yeah they lose Kenyon's contract, but they are more or less exactly his salary over the cap. So no, they cant sign a max player.

Its like the Jazz, they lose AK's 18 million, but will be just at the cap after he's gone.

jimbobjarree
01-24-2011, 11:47 PM
...that is unless anthony+nene opt out and leave, but then what kind of max player would want to sign there

The Final Boss
01-24-2011, 11:56 PM
The NBA has a soft cap. Besides, the presence of a cap doesn't change the fact that Denver can greatly improve after losing Martin's huge contract. Take your moronic suggestion of closure and shove it up your ***.

x1;)

Hoopsadvocate
01-25-2011, 12:06 AM
The NBA has a soft cap. Besides, the presence of a cap doesn't change the fact that Denver can greatly improve after losing Martin's huge contract. Take your moronic suggestion of closure and shove it up your ***.

Actually no offense but they cant, ur right about the soft cap but dead wrong about being able to add a max player or close to that to their roster. They will be able to add small pieces if even that u really should read the link he posted.

$KnicksAndKobe$
01-25-2011, 12:55 AM
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/denver.htm

beasted86
01-25-2011, 01:04 AM
The NBA has a soft cap. Besides, the presence of a cap doesn't change the fact that Denver can greatly improve after losing Martin's huge contract. Take your moronic suggestion of closure and shove it up your ***.

Why are you mad at me because you don't know how the salary cap works?

I think we've had enough threads from all the rumors leading up to 2010 that most fans should have some idea of how the salary cap works. You don't seem to have a good grasp on how it works out.

Anyway if the Nuggets let Kenyon expire, and don't re-sign him, + let JR expire and don't re-sign him.... they can't offer anyone a max contract. If they drop Kenyon + Smith + Nene, they STILL cannot offer any veteran player a max contract. So you are kinda way off. The Nuggets have Carmelo's cap hold + Affalo's cap hold, Billups, Harrington, Anderson, Balkman, Lawson, and their 1st round pick. That alone will add up to at least $50M. With the salary cap being around $60M, the Nuggets don't have close to enough to offer anyone a max contract. The only, only possibility of them offering a max contract to anyone as currently constructed is if they let all of those guys I mentioned before walk for nothing (Kenyon + JR + Nene), and on top of all of that drop the team option on Billups.... and try and re-sign him for less money.

So as I said, please read up on the salary cap. Don't get mad at me. I may have come off a bit harsh in my first post but it's just from all the month leading up to 2010 we've had more than enough threads started with ideas that aren't close to salary cap feasible.

camador22
01-25-2011, 01:30 AM
Why are you mad at me because you don't know how the salary cap works?

I think we've had enough threads from all the rumors leading up to 2010 that most fans should have some idea of how the salary cap works. You don't seem to have a good grasp on how it works out.

Anyway if the Nuggets let Kenyon expire, and don't re-sign him, + let JR expire and don't re-sign him.... they can't offer anyone a max contract. If they drop Kenyon + Smith + Nene, they STILL cannot offer any veteran player a max contract. So you are kinda way off. The Nuggets have Carmelo's cap hold + Affalo's cap hold, Billups, Harrington, Anderson, Balkman, Lawson, and their 1st round pick. That alone will add up to at least $50M. With the salary cap being around $60M, the Nuggets don't have close to enough to offer anyone a max contract. The only, only possibility of them offering a max contract to anyone as currently constructed is if they let all of those guys I mentioned before walk for nothing (Kenyon + JR + Nene), and on top of all of that drop the team option on Billups.... and try and re-sign him for less money.

So as I said, please read up on the salary cap. Don't get mad at me. I may have come off a bit harsh in my first post but it's just from all the month leading up to 2010 we've had more than enough threads started with ideas that aren't close to salary cap feasible.

The cap this year is at 58M but things are expected to change. If the Nuggets do not resign Smith and let Martin walk they will be at 44M. Generally 16.5 is about what you need for a max player for the first year. They would be short about 2.5M but if the CBA reduces salaries as expected they just may.

Mudvayne91
01-25-2011, 01:38 AM
^ Chauncey could be a factor too or did you factor that in?

beasted86
01-25-2011, 01:39 AM
The cap this year is at 58M but things are expected to change. If the Nuggets do not resign Smith and let Martin walk they will be at 44M. Generally 16.5 is about what you need for a max player for the first year. They would be short about 2.5M but if the CBA reduces salaries as expected they just may.

No. Your math is off.

For discussion sake, let's say the cap actually somehow goes up again and put it at a solid $60M.

And I'm rounding down on all the salaries listed below using this source:
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/nuggets.jsp

Anthony's cap hold: $18M
Affalo's qualifying offer: $2.9M

Billups: $14.2M
Harrington: $6.2M
Andersen: $4.8M
Balkman: $1.6M
Lawson: $1.6M

Total: $49.3

And remember, I rounded down... and I didn't even include their 1st round draft pick which has it's own cap hold. Without Kenyon or Smith or Nene, the Nuggets would have less than $10M to offer outside free agents, and that's assuming the cap rises to $60M.

Mudvayne91
01-25-2011, 01:47 AM
No. Your math is off.

For discussion sake, let's say the cap actually somehow goes up again and put it at a solid $60M.

And I'm rounding down on all the salaries listed below using this source:
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/nuggets.jsp

Anthony's cap hold: $18M
Affalo's qualifying offer: $2.9M

Billups: $14.2M
Harrington: $6.2M
Andersen: $4.8M
Balkman: $1.6M
Lawson: $1.6M

Total: $49.3

And remember, I rounded down... and I didn't even include their 1st round draft pick which has it's own cap hold. Without Kenyon or Smith or Nene, the Nuggets would have less than $10M to offer outside free agents, and that's assuming the cap rises to $60M.

I do want to say I'd find it highly unlikely that the Nuggets pickup Chauncey's team option next year if he isn't moved. They might sign him to a muchcheaper deal, but certainly not a 14 million deal.

beasted86
01-25-2011, 01:54 AM
I do want to say I'd find it highly unlikely that the Nuggets pickup Chauncey's team option next year if he isn't moved. They might sign him to a muchcheaper deal, but certainly not a 14 million deal.

Yeah, I included that exception before:

The only, only possibility of them offering a max contract to anyone as currently constructed is if they let all of those guys I mentioned before walk for nothing (Kenyon + JR + Nene), and on top of all of that drop the team option on Billups.... and try and re-sign him for less money.

The main problem is even using that idea that Billups' option is dropped only to sign him for less..... none of this makes sense anyway. I'm not even sure their is any singular free agent who is better than Nene + Smith + Kenyon combined that would make Denver better if they lost those 3 guys. Yao Ming? Zach Randolph? c'mon... no.

mrblisterdundee
01-25-2011, 02:13 AM
Why are you mad at me because you don't know how the salary cap works?

I think we've had enough threads from all the rumors leading up to 2010 that most fans should have some idea of how the salary cap works. You don't seem to have a good grasp on how it works out.

Anyway if the Nuggets let Kenyon expire, and don't re-sign him, + let JR expire and don't re-sign him.... they can't offer anyone a max contract. If they drop Kenyon + Smith + Nene, they STILL cannot offer any veteran player a max contract. So you are kinda way off. The Nuggets have Carmelo's cap hold + Affalo's cap hold, Billups, Harrington, Anderson, Balkman, Lawson, and their 1st round pick. That alone will add up to at least $50M. With the salary cap being around $60M, the Nuggets don't have close to enough to offer anyone a max contract. The only, only possibility of them offering a max contract to anyone as currently constructed is if they let all of those guys I mentioned before walk for nothing (Kenyon + JR + Nene), and on top of all of that drop the team option on Billups.... and try and re-sign him for less money.

So as I said, please read up on the salary cap. Don't get mad at me. I may have come off a bit harsh in my first post but it's just from all the month leading up to 2010 we've had more than enough threads started with ideas that aren't close to salary cap feasible.

If there's a new cap, then max deals won't be as large. $10 million won't be max, but it's pretty close to what will be max in the new market. I got mad at you because you said the thread should be closed. It's a valid thread; when a team loses $16.5 million worth of a useless, injured player, it has a chance to improve.

bholly
01-25-2011, 02:13 AM
Beasted - you forgot min salary holds for each roster spot below 12. Other than that, spot on.

I mean, we both know all the technicalities are moot given we have no idea what will be in the new CBA, but good analysis nonetheless.

Bottom line: Denver can't add a max to a team with Melo this summer.

LA_Raiders
01-25-2011, 03:24 AM
He wants NY

Raph12
01-25-2011, 03:47 AM
Idk if it's been said yet, but you spelt Carmelo's name wrong...

Lakers4ItAll
01-25-2011, 09:34 AM
at the end of this season, denver nixes more than $16.5 million with kenyon martin's contract expiring. That's enough to sign a max player without trading anyone else on the roster. Could it be that carmello's demanding a trade so that denver grabs another all-star to take the team to the next level, thus keeping him around?
Don't forget last season. Even with its current roster, denver took it to the defending champions. It's got a decent point guard in chauncey billups, not to mention ty lawson coming up in the league. It's got a headcase who can drop 20 to 30 on any given night in j.r. Smith. It's got a defensive spark plug in chris anderson. Finally, it has one of the best centers in the league in nene hilario. It's got a highly talented roster and massive financial flexibility after this season.
I'm starting to think that carmello's just pushing denver to take martin's expiring contract and turn it into an all-star addition that will make denver even more powerful than los angeles. What do you think?

lmao!

mttwlsn16
01-25-2011, 09:49 AM
Please read this: http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

Mods, please close this thread.


The NBA has a soft cap. Besides, the presence of a cap doesn't change the fact that Denver can greatly improve after losing Martin's huge contract. Take your moronic suggestion of closure and shove it up your ***.


x1;)

x2
figures a heat fan, if its not about the 3 losers then lets bash it and close it

MiamiLoyal926
01-25-2011, 10:46 AM
x2
figures a heat fan, if its not about the 3 losers then lets bash it and close it

Yeah it figures to be a heat fan... Do you know why?

We had to learn the cap rules in order to truly understand why Pat Riley was doing what he was for the last three years. We educated ourselves in cap rules and now we are offering our educated opinions on what is possible and what is not. Was he harsh with his initial post.... yes.... but "it figures its a heat fan" and we only care about the "three losers" is obviously a remark made by someone who is upset about something. Did he mention the heat at any momment during this thread? Had he wiped all heat logos from his signatures and avatar would you have listened and agreed with him? Stop being a biased fool and try to educate yourself in the cap rules and distance yourself from the heat hate please as this thread was unrelated to the heat and you decided to spring it up.

Pierzynski4Prez
01-25-2011, 11:12 AM
x2
figures a heat fan, if its not about the 3 losers then lets bash it and close it

What did he say that had anything to do with the Heat, or bashing the Nuggets? He simply stated the rules of the salary cap, and if you can't understand those, you do not belong in a thread talking about Denvers abilities in FA this summer or any other NBA team.

GivenGrace
01-25-2011, 11:30 AM
Nope, I think he really wants out.

latinofire21
01-25-2011, 11:56 AM
For arguements sake: What if Denver shipped his salary to a team that maybe interested in losing some cap space and has a player of quality caliber. I dont know what Brandon Roys contract is but for arguements sake they can still match money for a player like that. Similar to an Arenas trade. Wouldnt that allow the Nuggets to get another superstar holding their same cap money?

MiamiLoyal926
01-25-2011, 12:07 PM
For arguements sake: What if Denver shipped his salary to a team that maybe interested in losing some cap space and has a player of quality caliber. I dont know what Brandon Roys contract is but for arguements sake they can still match money for a player like that. Similar to an Arenas trade. Wouldnt that allow the Nuggets to get another superstar holding their same cap money?

So they are trading carmelo away for another max or allstar? This thread is about carmelo seeking to improve the nuggets so I am assuming carmelo returns via free agency? If so, now the other players contract is in the way of carmelo returning via FA. Either way, someone's contract is going to impair this from happening unless you shed most of your quality players to obtain a team of only two Max and a bunch of small contracts. The free agents of this summer do not seem to entice that type of action and I doubt any team would trade quality players for anthony to then allow him to walk.

Overall, I am confused by your proposal and I hope I answered it correctly and with quality. Otherwise, please elaborate as it wasn't clear to me what your intentions were.

JordansBulls
01-25-2011, 12:10 PM
It doesn't seem like the Nuggets are trying to acquire more personel to go with Melo so no.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-25-2011, 12:13 PM
nah...he wants to leave

beasted86
01-25-2011, 12:50 PM
Beasted - you forgot min salary holds for each roster spot below 12. Other than that, spot on.

I mean, we both know all the technicalities are moot given we have no idea what will be in the new CBA, but good analysis nonetheless.

Bottom line: Denver can't add a max to a team with Melo this summer.

Temporarily forgot about that as well.

So they won't even have $10M unless they renegotiate a deal with Billups, because with their draft picks, with their actual salaries (I rounded down), and with the roster spot cap holds.... they simply won't have cap space to add a max. The salary cap is likely to go down next summer anyhow, and who knows what else the new CBA will bring.

And as I already asked, what one player out there is better than Nene, Kenyon, and Smith?

pebloemer
01-25-2011, 04:54 PM
If there's a new cap, then max deals won't be as large. $10 million won't be max, but it's pretty close to what will be max in the new market. I got mad at you because you said the thread should be closed. It's a valid thread; when a team loses $16.5 million worth of a useless, injured player, it has a chance to improve.

It is seeing common cap fallacies like this that upset people when making threads:


At the end of this season, Denver nixes more than $16.5 million with Kenyon Martin's contract expiring. That's enough to sign a max player without trading anyone else on the roster.

People need to understand that just because 16.5 million of a salary expires does not mean you have 16.5 million to spend. In a soft cap, teams go far above the cap threshold, and quite often losing 16.5 million hardly puts the team below that threshold.

In the Nuggets case, there cap room is dependent on team options and players options. They could have significant cap room, but it will mean losing Nene, Martin, Billups, Afflalo and/or Smith. With all those question marks, I think it is impossible to predict how much salary they will have committed.

You also bring up the new CBA variable, but that variable is also an unknown.

There really are too many variables to provide any type of informed decision on your question.


got a decent point guard in Chauncey Billups, not to mention Ty Lawson coming up in the league. It's got a headcase who can drop 20 to 30 on any given night in J.R. Smith. It's got a defensive spark plug in Chris Anderson. Finally, it has one of the best centers in the league in Nene Hilario. It's got a highly talented roster and massive financial flexibility after this season.
I'm starting to think that Carmello's just pushing Denver to take Martin's expiring contract and turn it into an all-star addition that will make Denver even more powerful than Los Angeles. What do you think?

Also, having all those players would likely put them over the cap. I really don't see how it wouldn't even with all the variables in play. I think the only way it would be possible for Denver to use Martin's expiring to net an all-star would be to see if a team like Philly is looking to trade Iggy for financial relief and young talent. But I am doubtful they have a package enticing enough for Philly to trade their best player. And you weren't speaking about trade possibilities, rather off-season ones.

IBleedPurple
01-26-2011, 12:12 AM
Look at it this way......

Melo said a week or two ago that Ujiri, the GM of the Nuggets, knows what Melo wants to do.

As recently as a couple days ago, Ujiri said he is still talking to several teams about trading Melo.


That would lead me to believe that Melo informed him it's not very likely he'll be returning. Besides, Melo hasn't shown that he cares about being on the best team. Seems to be more of a marketing move, and to appease LaLa.

MiKE-THE-FUTURE
01-26-2011, 12:24 AM
idk if it's been said yet, but you spelt carmelo's name wrong...

+1

bahama0811
01-26-2011, 12:25 AM
No, Melo is as good as gone already. The FO isn't really trying to get anyone else to help out so I'd say it's pretty much set.

MiKE-THE-FUTURE
01-26-2011, 12:30 AM
Melo couldn't have said it more clearly....

"I want to play for NY"
"Its a dream to play for the team you grew up liking"
"Its a dream to go back home"

This guy needs to get traded to NY before they end up with Nothing

knicks4life33
01-26-2011, 12:33 AM
hes coming to the knmicks

goose14741
01-26-2011, 12:36 AM
Please read this: http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

Mods, please close this thread.


get a life


let m guess, infraction? i hope i diddnt hurt his feelings