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View Full Version : What is it that Carmelo Anthony needs to win in Denver?



beasted86
01-23-2011, 12:41 AM
I hope this doesn't go too far off topic, but here's an honest question.

When LeBron couldn't win in Cleveland being the #1 guy, most said it was that he didn't have a legit #2 go to guy, and the offensive coaching of Mike Brown was poor in general.

As a parallel, what is it that Carmelo is missing in Denver that you felt if they got that, it would put them over the top and they could possibly have a winner and he might stay?

They have a great coach in George Karl, they moved their legit 2nd scorer in Iverson to bring in more of a 2nd leader with Billups, and that seemed to work. They have 2 good defenders opposite Anthony in Kenyon Martin at PF, and Affallo at SG. Nene is having a great season, and their bench has 3 legit scorers in Lawson, Smith, and Harrington, and a solid combo PF/C in Chris Andersen. What is it the Nuggets are really missing that would put them over the top?

210Don
01-23-2011, 12:43 AM
man that nuggets team is good as far as talent. but to be honest i dont think its them i just think the conference is to tough for them to make any sort of leap

Bruno
01-23-2011, 12:47 AM
IMO they'd need an all-star, or close to all-star caliber big man to help them get past the size of LA/Dallas/SA.

Martin is undersized and NeNe can't fend off seven footers well enough to stabilize their post play.

Chronz
01-23-2011, 12:50 AM
Personally I think they need a player better than Melo for Melo to win

PS They didnt bring in Billups to be a second leader, they brought him in to be the leader

Kakaroach
01-23-2011, 12:53 AM
A legitimate scoring big man in the post. They have pretty much everything else they need to win. Get a Zack Randolph type player and they should be contenders no doubt.

chicago lulz
01-23-2011, 12:54 AM
I think it's more so the fact that it's the Western conference.

Gators123
01-23-2011, 12:55 AM
Dwight Howard :eyebrow:

THE GIPPER
01-23-2011, 12:55 AM
IMO they'd need an all-star, or close to all-star caliber big man to help them get past the size of LA/Dallas/SA.

Martin is undersized and NeNe can't fend off seven footers well enough to stabilize their post play.

This. I think a guy like josh smith would help alot.

The Dream
01-23-2011, 12:55 AM
200+ responses incoming....

ankit
01-23-2011, 12:56 AM
The funny part is even if Mello goes to the knicks who said they can be able to make the EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS WITH EASE. They have Boston, Orlando, Miami, Atlanta and the BUlls that will be blocking their paths every year.

ankit
01-23-2011, 12:57 AM
I think Mello should stay in Denver and sign that three years extension, not only would he improve his brand image he will also have enough respect around the league.

beasted86
01-23-2011, 12:58 AM
IMO they'd need an all-star, or close to all-star caliber big man to help them get past the size of LA/Dallas/SA.

Martin is undersized and NeNe can't fend off seven footers well enough to stabilize their post play.

Okay, so just for discussions sake, let's say they somehow traded Kenyon Martin for Andrew Bogut and moved Nene down to PF. He would be a legit 7 ft Center who plays good defense and scores in the low post, and an athletic 6'11 PF. Does that put them over the top? Do you think at that point they are expected to be able to take down the Lakers?

At what point do they have enough talent and coaching, and are just not getting it done?

Mochalman
01-23-2011, 12:58 AM
people who defend and a center who can get rebounds

The Dream
01-23-2011, 12:59 AM
The funny part is even if Mello goes to the knicks who said they can be able to make the EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS WITH EASE. They have Boston, Orlando, Miami, Atlanta and the BUlls that will be blocking their paths every year.

uhh, yeah most of us get that....
:facepalm:

that would be why we're trying to get melo.

Hellcrooner
01-23-2011, 01:00 AM
If they want to win with Mello being the first option then they need to build a celtics like team , wich means they only have two of the five pieces in billiups and anthony.

If they wanted to WIN simply they need a REAL FIRST option that allows melo to go into his real slot wich is being second option on a championship contender.

LTBaByyy
01-23-2011, 01:01 AM
An All Star PF (One of the reasons why hes going to NY) and move Kenyon Martin to the bench so you have Martin and Anderson as your energy guys

abe_froman
01-23-2011, 01:01 AM
I hope this doesn't go too far off topic, but here's an honest question.

When LeBron couldn't win in Cleveland being the #1 guy, most said it was that he didn't have a legit #2 go to guy, and the offensive coaching of Mike Brown was poor in general.

As a parallel, what is it that Carmelo is missing in Denver that you felt if they got that, it would put them over the top and they could possibly have a winner and he might stay?

They have a great coach in George Karl, they moved their legit 2nd scorer in Iverson to bring in more of a 2nd leader with Billups, and that seemed to work. They have 2 good defenders opposite Anthony in Kenyon Martin at PF, and Affallo at SG. Nene is having a great season, and their bench has 3 legit scorers in Lawson, Smith, and Harrington, and a solid combo PF/C in Chris Andersen. What is it the Nuggets are really missing that would put them over the top?
the ability to stay driven and hungry

his team is fine in terms of talent.someone like a kobe,kd,roy(when healthy),whatever star could probably beast in the west with same supporting cast.it really just falls on him,he's shown flashes at times,but he will become lackadaisical and disinterested and as he goes,they go

they as a team fall into the same pattern as well

Bruno
01-23-2011, 01:05 AM
Okay, so just for discussions sake, let's say they somehow traded Kenyon Martin for Andrew Bogut and moved Nene down to PF. He would be a legit 7 ft Center who plays good defense and scores in the low post, and an athletic 6'11 PF. Does that put them over the top? Do you think at that point they are expected to be able to take down the Lakers?

At what point do they have enough talent and coaching, and are just not getting it done?

You know, I think a move like that would bring them a lot closer to being able to challenge for the WC crown. Being able to much up against two seven footers, along with the talent of Anthony, Billups and their other young wings could be enough.

It's just so hard to say since we don't get to visualize how that team would actually play together.

kblo247
01-23-2011, 01:07 AM
Melo has said it himself, they are dependent on Martin and Birdman both being healthy and productive to have a chance to win because they bring the interior defense.

As talented as Nene is offensively he is a creampuff one on one against Pau, Bynum, Duncan, or Boozer one on one in a 7 game series (basically the same guys that beat them every year). The fact is all those guys have a field day against him because he can't body them up and hinder their scoring like Kenyon or Anderson can. He can score against them but he can't stop them and isn't even that good of a rebounder for his own size.

If they had a guy like Bogut or even Noah to go down their and bang and control the glass they would stand a much better chance, but Denver management is still too inept to get that piece.
- They sold Camby away for nothing when he was obviously a better defender/rebounder than Nene
- They couldn't convince Dice to come there after the trade
- Knowing that they would be without K-Mart and Bird, they brought in Harrington

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
They ain't winning with that even if Melo, Chauncey, and JR play like they are possessed because they won't get stops or second chances.

Move K-Mart's expiring for a good big and watch them be better. Hell I'll go as far as to say that if Varejao was healthy and they dealt K-Mart for him they would stand a better chance in a 7 game series out west.

Bruno
01-23-2011, 01:11 AM
Melo has said it himself, they are dependent on Martin and Birdman both being healthy and productive to have a chance to win because they bring the interior defense.

As talented as Nene is offensively he is a creampuff one on one against Pau, Bynum, Duncan, or Boozer one on one in a 7 game series (basically the same guys that beat them every year). The fact is all those guys have a field day against him because he can't body them up and hinder their scoring like Kenyon or Anderson can. He can score against them but he can't stop them and isn't even that good of a rebounder for his own size.

If they had a guy like Bogut or even Noah to go down their and bang and control the glass they would stand a much better chance, but Denver management is still too inept to get that piece.
- They sold Camby away for nothing when he was obviously a better defender/rebounder than Nene
- They couldn't convince Dice to come there after the trade
- Knowing that they would be without K-Mart and Bird, they brought in Harrington

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
They ain't winning with that even if Melo, Chauncey, and JR play like they are possessed because they won't get stops or second chances.

Move K-Mart's expiring for a good big and watch them be better. Hell I'll go as far as to say that if Varejao was healthy and they dealt K-Mart for him they would stand a better chance in a 7 game series out west.

I still don't get how giving away Camby helped them in anyway. But I agree. Getting some hustle, banging bigs like a Noah or Anderson V. type would be huge. They really don't need K-Mart or Harrington. They're both undersized, can't stop the elite 4's, and are over-paid. Harrington is the last kid of big man they need.

Bruno
01-23-2011, 01:13 AM
Denver management has done a poor job of building around MELO, IMO. It's not like they aren't spending. They have the 5th highest payroll in the league. They just don't have the right pieces. K-Mart is getting paid 16 million this season. If Melo stays, maybe they could use that money coming off the books to land the kind of real big they need. There's just so much up in the air right now with the new agreement and possible lock out looming.

LTBaByyy
01-23-2011, 01:18 AM
Denver is all about Melo and every knows clutch time the ball is going to Melo

If he goes to NY hes gonna have to share the spot light, I would wanna stay with Denver

and in a few years the western conference will be all about the Thunder, Nuggets, and Clippers

If he goes to Knicks hes gonna have to face the Bulls, Heat, Hawks and Magic for YEARS!!!

I would def stay in Denver

Sandman
01-23-2011, 01:23 AM
the ability to stay driven and hungry

his team is fine in terms of talent.someone like a kobe,kd,roy(when healthy),whatever star could probably beast in the west with same supporting cast.it really just falls on him,he's shown flashes at times,but he will become lackadaisical and disinterested and as he goes,they go

they as a team fall into the same pattern as well

Kobe couldn't win anything with Lamar Odom, and I think he's better than anybody the Nuggets have. And the Nugs did make the Conference finals a year or two back.

kblo247
01-23-2011, 01:25 AM
I still don't get how giving away Camby helped them in anyway. But I agree. Getting some hustle, banging bigs like a Noah or Anderson V. type would be huge. They really don't need K-Mart or Harrington. They're both undersized, can't stop the elite 4's, and are over-paid. Harrington is the last kid of big man they need.

They lack rebounding. Camby could have easily helped them with that and provide shot blocking for this unit since their guards are better defensively than the last two Denver backcourts he played with.

As for Kenyon, he may be undersized but he is stronger at holding his position one on one against bigs. Just look at the game yesterday. Bynum and Pau sealed Nene with ease in a position they wanted the ball, whereas Kenyon pushed them out and made them shoot over the top of him. Anderson pushes bigs out and makes them shoot over top while also hitting the glass.

As it stands now, I'll say that if Denver even got a motivated Marc (last years version) they would be a better team because he can bang with bigs one on one down low and rebound the ball. Nene can't do those things or alter shots in the paint so it becomes one of two things for Denver:
1) A lay up line for the bigs
2) Perimeter players getting open shots and killing them because they have to double
.

JordansBulls
01-23-2011, 02:03 AM
I hope this doesn't go too far off topic, but here's an honest question.

When LeBron couldn't win in Cleveland being the #1 guy, most said it was that he didn't have a legit #2 go to guy, and the offensive coaching of Mike Brown was poor in general.

As a parallel, what is it that Carmelo is missing in Denver that you felt if they got that, it would put them over the top and they could possibly have a winner and he might stay?

They have a great coach in George Karl, they moved their legit 2nd scorer in Iverson to bring in more of a 2nd leader with Billups, and that seemed to work. They have 2 good defenders opposite Anthony in Kenyon Martin at PF, and Affallo at SG. Nene is having a great season, and their bench has 3 legit scorers in Lawson, Smith, and Harrington, and a solid combo PF/C in Chris Andersen. What is it the Nuggets are really missing that would put them over the top?

Like every team in the league, they need an allstar PF or Center.

faze38
01-23-2011, 02:59 AM
They need their big man to stay healthy and then they would have a chance period but they could also use a better rebounding big man tho because they need somebody to help them battle against the Lakers on the boards!

Raph12
01-23-2011, 04:36 AM
They need a real center to pair with Nene in a twin-towers look, the Lakers bigs will dominate them every time if they don't change that up... Nene is a PF and KMart can't guard Pau or Odom.

abe_froman
01-23-2011, 04:42 AM
Kobe couldn't win anything with Lamar Odom, and I think he's better than anybody the Nuggets have. And the Nugs did make the Conference finals a year or two back.

you contradict the first part of your argument with the second.yes they went to the conference finals,so they clearly have talent(no better example to use for showing it).so what happened the past two years,there has been no significant dropoff in talent has there been? no.so it has to be something else.ahh mentality.that stars from the star and on down through the ranks.and if you ever followed the nuggets its been a problem with every team they put together excited billup's first year. most have attitude problems swirling around that org for years,its not conducive to a winning atmosphere ever since he got there(jr smith,ai didnt help turning it either)

i think melo is a good(if overrated)individual player,but he doesnt make those around him better.kobe does

hgtiger32
01-23-2011, 05:01 AM
uhh, yeah most of us get that....
:facepalm:

that would be why we're trying to get melo.

uhh, he said even if they get Melo it's going to be hard to win the East with the Heat, Celtics, Magic, and Bulls (hell the Hawks are still better than a Knicks team with Melo, Amare, Felton, etc.

MackShock
01-23-2011, 05:02 AM
they have the pieces...its that desire to win that isnt. melo might have it but besides billups, none of his teammates do

D1JM
01-23-2011, 05:20 AM
he needs to be more efficient

Bravo95
01-23-2011, 12:15 PM
He's a Top 10 player but not every player in the Top 10 is ready to be an alpha leading a team to the title. I just don't see that joyless demeanor of a player ready to do whatever it takes on both ends of the floor to win a championship.

FadeAwayLikeMJ
01-23-2011, 12:26 PM
Denver needs Kobe and Duncan to retire for them to have any sorta shot

nycsports2
01-23-2011, 12:29 PM
big time pg and a big time center on top of what they have now

joeboow90
01-23-2011, 12:54 PM
i think Denver is just a good team with some good players but not great. Melo and Billups are two championship caliber big time players. but theres not much else around them that is really good. Afflalo and Smith are decent sg's nothing special, Martin is way past his prime not very good anymore. Im not saying theyre bad but i really dont think this group is gonna win any championships against the elite teams like Lakers, Spurs, Mavs, Celtics and others.

kjoke
01-23-2011, 12:57 PM
Personally I think they need a player better than Melo for Melo to win

PS They didnt bring in Billups to be a second leader, they brought him in to be the leader

this :hide:

HuRRiCaNeS324
01-23-2011, 01:59 PM
Primarily, they need to get better defensively and that starts off with your star player being your best defender. In this case, it isn't and Melo needs to become a more willing defender to put the Nuggets over the top. In addition, they need good versatile defenders to come off the bench. They should trade JR Smith because they don't NEED him since they have two great scorers off the bench already in Lawson and Harrington. There are plenty teams that will give away some good players in exchange for Smith that are in need of an offensive jolt off the bench. Also, a legitimate center that can rebound and defend would help them out a lot. Nene is a great center, but isn't that good at rebounding or defensively. Kenyon Martin being healthy is a huge factor as well.

I honestly don't know why Melo wants to leave so badly. He's been winning and going to the playoffs every year. If they add a few more pieces they should give the Lakers a run for their money. I still believe the Nuggets will be able to convince him to stay. Looking at the Knicks, they are still a mediocre team and i dont think Melo is their answer. What the Knicks need is a very good center so Amare and Danilo can go back to their natural positions (assuming Danilo starts at PF). They defiantly don't need ANOTHER scorer of the plethora they already have.

Antipod
01-23-2011, 02:24 PM
SIMPLE - They are good,but the others are better :)