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Hustlenomics
01-22-2011, 03:18 PM
here post up things you hear about teams and players that you feel aren't true
few of mine


- only thing Carmelo does is score (he rebounds and opens up shots for his teammates)
-Rondo is only good because of the players around him (he makes their jobs much easier and he's shown he can play when any of them go down with an injury)
-Celtics are too old *Once they end up running through your favorite team* (oh they're still elite ! )
-Iguodala is a stat stuffer (he gets his stats by playing hard and he ain't all about the stats)
-Bogut is the best player on the Bucks (Jennings is)
-Joe Johnson isn't a max contract player (check his resume)
-Rondo can't hit an open shot to save his life (he's been making plenty open shots)
-Greg Oden is a bust (he got a lot of time left in his career and in the times he's played he's shown he can be a good player)

MTar786
01-22-2011, 03:27 PM
-Kobe bryant gets superstar treatment (if anything he gets the complete opposite)

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-22-2011, 03:28 PM
Rondo>Rose

$KnicksAndKobe$
01-22-2011, 03:29 PM
here post up things you hear about teams and players that you feel aren't true
few of mine


- only thing Carmelo does is score False, it's just what he's best at.
-Rondo is only good because of the players around him False
-Celtics are too old *Once they end up running through your favorite team* (oh they're still elite ! :laugh2:) False
-Iguodala is a stat stuffer No, but he's a horrible offensive player
-Bogut is the best player on the Bucks Ye
-Joe Johnson isn't a max contract player Duh
-Rondo can't hit an open shot to save his life He can make open jumpers
-Greg Oden is a bust Unfortunately, yes. He's been pretty much useless in the NBA.


):

- the Queens got screwed in the playoffs by the refs - I don't believe that.

Hustlenomics
01-22-2011, 03:32 PM
Rondo>Rose

myths not facts :D

):

Joe Johnson is definitely a max contract player even Kevin Durant said it and he's a max contract type player himself so he would know
and Oden isn't done yet :(

tredigs
01-22-2011, 03:33 PM
This thread is pointless unless you qualify your statements with the reasons you feel otherwise. If not we're just taking random blanket statements and saying, "NOT UH!".

Why do you feel JJ earned a max (earns it back in ticket sales? Best option they had?). How is Greg Oden not a bust to this point (unfair to label him as such because of injuries semi out of his control? Too early to say so?). In what dimension is Bogut not the Bucks best player, and who is, etc etc.

DerekRE_3
01-22-2011, 03:34 PM
This thread is pointless unless you qualify your statements with the reasons you feel otherwise. If not we're just taking random blanket statements and saying, "NOT UH!".

Why do you feel JJ earned a max (earns it back in ticket sales? Best option they had?). How is Greg Oden not a bust to this point (unfair to label him as such because of injuries semi out of his control? Too early to say so?). In what dimension is Bogut not the Bucks best player, and who is?

Bingo. But what did you expect? This is the NBA forum.

Hustlenomics
01-22-2011, 03:39 PM
This thread is pointless unless you qualify your statements with the reasons you feel otherwise. If not we're just taking random blanket statements and saying, "NOT UH!".

Why do you feel JJ earned a max (earns it back in ticket sales? Best option they had?). How is Greg Oden not a bust to this point (unfair to label him as such because of injuries semi out of his control? Too early to say so?). In what dimension is Bogut not the Bucks best player, and who is, etc etc.

ok i edited some :o

arosen36
01-22-2011, 03:52 PM
idk if this is a myth, but contrary to what espn believes, i dont think sit around thinking about the miami heat all day, and heatles is the worst nickname ive ever heard, when i hear espn say that i want to punch a hole threw my tv

Sixerlover
01-22-2011, 03:54 PM
JJ is a max contract player? Deserves to be on the same pay scale as the top players in the league?

smith&wesson
01-22-2011, 03:55 PM
Miami heat does not have a big three, they have a huge 2 and a shiney bobble head named chrissy posh aka rue paul.

FACT !!!

ManRam
01-22-2011, 03:55 PM
The NBA is rigged.

And no Tre, I am not going to qualify my stance ;) I don't feel a need to do so.

posterized
01-22-2011, 04:02 PM
dumb.......

Ray_R
01-22-2011, 04:05 PM
Miami heat does not have a big three, they have a huge 2 and a shiney bobble head named chrissy posh aka rue paul.

FACT !!!

Co-Sign!

Hawkeye15
01-22-2011, 04:08 PM
Advanced statistics are useless and flawed.....
Kobe is better than LeBron cause he has 5 rings.....
Rondo is an efficient scorer......


just a few. Now, Joe Johnson is not worth a max deal. Its contracts like those that hamstring a team to 50 wins and out in the playoffs, which the Hawks will continue to be. How is Bogut not the Bucks best player? Oden cant be classified as anything yet. He is 22, and if he ever gets healthy, everyone will know why he was taken ahead of Durant.

Threads like these are for one reason: To try and let out some frustrations on players/teams that you just don't have the majoritiy opinion on. If you don't provide some quantitative proof, then its all just opinion. Nothing worth arguing there.

GeekInThePink
01-22-2011, 04:12 PM
Andrea Bargnani is underrated, yes he can't rebound, but that shouldn't overlook his scoring abilities and athleticism

smith&wesson
01-22-2011, 04:17 PM
Co-Sign!

LOL your sig is jokes

asandhu23
01-22-2011, 04:19 PM
NBA is not rigged

Monta Ellis does not play defense


Wilt Chamberlain isn't the best NBA player of all time


Wilt Chamberlain played against weak chumps, that's why his stats are so good.


Blake Griffin isn't Stern's shiny new toy. Durant isn't Stern's shiny new toy.


Advanced Statistics have no flaws whatsoever and I, Hawkeye15, do not hide behind them to seem smarter than all of you, casual fans.

LakersMaster24
01-22-2011, 04:34 PM
NBA is not rigged

Monta Ellis does not play defense


Wilt Chamberlain isn't the best NBA player of all time


Wilt Chamberlain played against weak chumps, that's why his stats are so good.


Blake Griffin isn't Stern's shiny new toy. Durant isn't Stern's shiny new toy.


Advanced Statistics have no flaws whatsoever and I, Hawkeye15, do not hide behind them to seem smarter than all of you, casual fans.

Sorry, I am kinda confused. All those statements above, do you mean that all those things are not true? or true?

As in you think Wilt is the greatest of all time?

DerekRE_3
01-22-2011, 04:37 PM
NBA is not rigged

Monta Ellis does not play defense


Wilt Chamberlain isn't the best NBA player of all time


Wilt Chamberlain played against weak chumps, that's why his stats are so good.


Blake Griffin isn't Stern's shiny new toy. Durant isn't Stern's shiny new toy.


Advanced Statistics have no flaws whatsoever and I, Hawkeye15, do not hide behind them to seem smarter than all of you, casual fans.

Pretty sure Hawkeye has said multiple times that you need to use advanced statistics and your eyes to evaluate players/teams. It's definitely better than blind homerism.

ManRam
01-22-2011, 04:38 PM
Advanced Statistics have no flaws whatsoever and I, Hawkeye15, do not hide behind them to seem smarter than all of you, casual fans.

Are you serious? :laugh::laugh:

DerekRE_3
01-22-2011, 04:42 PM
Of course he is serious. Since advanced stats don't make Monta Ellis look like the greatest player to ever live, they are completely flawed.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-22-2011, 04:48 PM
Of course he is serious. Since advanced stats don't make Monta Ellis look like the greatest player to ever live, they are completely flawed.

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh:

shep33
01-22-2011, 04:48 PM
That the Celtics' Leprechaun is not the same one in the movies

KingPosey
01-22-2011, 05:00 PM
here post up things you hear about teams and players that you feel aren't true
few of mine


- only thing Carmelo does is score (he rebounds and opens up shots for his teammates)
-Rondo is only good because of the players around him (he makes their jobs much easier and he's shown he can play when any of them go down with an injury)
-Celtics are too old *Once they end up running through your favorite team* (oh they're still elite ! )
-Iguodala is a stat stuffer (he gets his stats by playing hard and he ain't all about the stats)
-Bogut is the best player on the Bucks (Jennings is)
-Joe Johnson isn't a max contract player (check his resume)
-Rondo can't hit an open shot to save his life (he's been making plenty open shots)
-Greg Oden is a bust (he got a lot of time left in his career and in the times he's played he's shown he can be a good player)
This is the only reason he made this thread. The rest is just to disguise it.

KingPosey
01-22-2011, 05:01 PM
here post up things you hear about teams and players that you feel aren't true
few of mine


- only thing Carmelo does is score (he rebounds and opens up shots for his teammates)
-Rondo is only good because of the players around him (he makes their jobs much easier and he's shown he can play when any of them go down with an injury)
-Celtics are too old *Once they end up running through your favorite team* (oh they're still elite ! )
-Iguodala is a stat stuffer (he gets his stats by playing hard and he ain't all about the stats)
-Bogut is the best player on the Bucks (Jennings is)
-Joe Johnson isn't a max contract player (check his resume)
-Rondo can't hit an open shot to save his life (he's been making plenty open shots)
-Greg Oden is a bust (he got a lot of time left in his career and in the times he's played he's shown he can be a good player)
This is the only reason he made this thread. The rest is just to disguise it.

And dude, rondo cant shoot, give it a rest.

KingPosey
01-22-2011, 05:04 PM
This thread is pointless unless you qualify your statements with the reasons you feel otherwise. If not we're just taking random blanket statements and saying, "NOT UH!".

Why do you feel JJ earned a max (earns it back in ticket sales? Best option they had?). How is Greg Oden not a bust to this point (unfair to label him as such because of injuries semi out of his control? Too early to say so?). In what dimension is Bogut not the Bucks best player, and who is, etc etc.

Good luck gettin that from the thread starter.

tredigs
01-22-2011, 05:11 PM
The NBA is rigged.

And no Tre, I am not going to qualify my stance ;) I don't feel a need to do so.

My ninja.

jayl1377
01-22-2011, 05:20 PM
meh

jayl1377
01-22-2011, 05:21 PM
gah

kjoke
01-22-2011, 05:23 PM
chris bosh is not a max player---false

D Roses Bulls
01-22-2011, 05:34 PM
NBA is not rigged

Monta Ellis does not play defense


Wilt Chamberlain isn't the best NBA player of all time


Wilt Chamberlain played against weak chumps, that's why his stats are so good.


Blake Griffin isn't Stern's shiny new toy. Durant isn't Stern's shiny new toy.


Advanced Statistics have no flaws whatsoever and I, Hawkeye15, do not hide behind them to seem smarter than all of you, casual fans.

LOL..... awesome

Hawkeye15
01-22-2011, 05:36 PM
NBA is not rigged

Monta Ellis does not play defense


Wilt Chamberlain isn't the best NBA player of all time


Wilt Chamberlain played against weak chumps, that's why his stats are so good.


Blake Griffin isn't Stern's shiny new toy. Durant isn't Stern's shiny new toy.


Advanced Statistics have no flaws whatsoever and I, Hawkeye15, do not hide behind them to seem smarter than all of you, casual fans.


how do I act smarter haha? Um, providing evidence for opinions is acting smarter?

according to synergy, Monta is ranked #166 in the NBA for his opponents counterproduction.

footballer2369
01-22-2011, 05:44 PM
How are Wade, Lebron, Rose, Dwight, Bosh, Amare, Boozer, Arroyo, Chalmers in synergy if you don't mind?

Hawkeye15
01-22-2011, 05:45 PM
How are Wade, Lebron, Rose, Dwight, Bosh, Amare, Boozer, Arroyo, Chalmers in synergy if you don't mind?

for what, defense?

D Roses Bulls
01-22-2011, 06:00 PM
Ive got some

Michael Jordan wouldn't average 40-50 points a game in today's game if he wanted too.

Tyreke Evans is just as good as rose.

Dwight Howard is limited offensively

D1JM
01-22-2011, 06:08 PM
heat and bulls fans will be able to co-exist one day

Sactown
01-22-2011, 06:10 PM
Ive got some

Michael Jordan wouldn't average 40-50 points a game in today's game if he wanted too.

Tyreke Evans is just as good as rose.

Dwight Howard is limited offensively

He will be :)

D Roses Bulls
01-22-2011, 06:12 PM
He will be :)

In your dreams perhaps :)

Sactown
01-22-2011, 06:13 PM
In your dreams perhaps :)

Oh.. that's another myth.. I see what you did there.. glad we agree

D Roses Bulls
01-22-2011, 06:13 PM
heat and bulls fans will be able to co-exist one day

some are real cool and do get along with us.

D Roses Bulls
01-22-2011, 06:15 PM
Oh.. that's another myth.. I see what you did there.. glad we agree

LOL.... your a funny dude and that's no myth.

superkegger
01-22-2011, 06:15 PM
Joe Johnson is not a max contract guy. If you actually checked the Resume, you'd realize, "oh ****, since he's been on the Hawks, he's never even been to the conference finals. ****, forget being the conference champion, he's never even led the Hawks to a divison championship." Hell, he's only been to the conference championship once, and that was with Phoenix early in his career when he was hot dog #4 to amare, marion and nash. Joes a quality player, but he's overpaid.

Sactown
01-22-2011, 06:16 PM
LOL.... your a funny dude and that's no myth.

I'm funny! Yay! glad that isn't a myth.. or I'd be emotional destroyed. oh wait the Kings seasons already done that.

Hawkeye15
01-22-2011, 06:17 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=evansty01&y1=2010&p2=rosede01&y2=2009

Evans versus Rose year 1. So many forget about Evans because of his injuries this season. He was better as a rookie. And could very well end up the better player. His injuries are not the type that will linger through his career.

How quickly players are forgotten when they aren't playing. Short term memory at its finest.

Sactown
01-22-2011, 06:20 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=evansty01&y1=2010&p2=rosede01&y2=2009

Evans versus Rose year 1. So many forget about Evans because of his injuries this season. He was better as a rookie. And could very well end up the better player. His injuries are not the type that will linger through his career.

How quickly players are forgotten when they aren't playing. Short term memory at its finest.

Especially when you watch the games where his foot doesn't appear to be bothering him. He just goes off, the Kings need to shut him down and get that procedure done on his foot.. playing through it isn't helping

D Roses Bulls
01-22-2011, 06:21 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=evansty01&y1=2010&p2=rosede01&y2=2009

Evans versus Rose year 1. So many forget about Evans because of his injuries this season. He was better as a rookie. And could very well end up the better player. His injuries are not the type that will linger through his career.

How quickly players are forgotten when they aren't playing. Short term memory at its finest.

this is a case where stats are bad to use. look at who the kings had evans rookie year to who rose had his rookie year. rose played with BG, Hinrich, Salmons(for a half a season), and Deng. that took the ball out of his hands, caused his stats to not look as good. when your the main option on a bad team, of course your numbers are gonna look better. Also how did rookie stats work out for Brook Lopez? seems like he has turned into the center most of you guys thought he would end up becoming.

Sactown
01-22-2011, 06:26 PM
this is a case where stats are bad to use. look at who the kings had evans rookie year to who rose had his rookie year. rose played with BG, Hinrich, Salmons(for a half a season), and Deng. that took the ball out of his hands, caused his stats to not look as good. when your the main option on a bad team, of course your numbers are gonna look better.

That's when you use your eyes and see Tyrekes handles along with physical size.. you should of seen it.. when the Kings came back from a 30+ point lead..

Hawkeye15
01-22-2011, 06:29 PM
this is a case where stats are bad to use. look at who the kings had evans rookie year to who rose had his rookie year. rose played with BG, Hinrich, Salmons(for a half a season), and Deng. that took the ball out of his hands, caused his stats to not look as good. when your the main option on a bad team, of course your numbers are gonna look better. Also how did rookie stats work out for Brook Lopez? seems like he has turned into the center most of you guys thought he would end up becoming.

Rose playing with far more talent in year 1 didn't hurt his stats. Cmon now.

please don't go down the stats on bad teams argument. Simply put, Reke had a better rookie year. No need to get your panties in a bunch. Reke has a long ways to go, improvement wise, to get to or surpass Rose.

Man, Rose fans need to let their guard down once in a while. He is fantastic, but jesus, there have been better

D Roses Bulls
01-22-2011, 06:29 PM
That's when you use your eyes and see Tyrekes handles along with physical size.. you should of seen it.. when the Kings came back from a 30+ point lead..

that was one game and I have watched tyreke and Im not saying he will be a bad player, but the jury is still out on him cause he even though he has a lot of potential and seems like he is a gifted player doesn't mean that will all translate. like i said, take brook lopez for example. had good rookie year, even a pretty good second year and everyone was saying (besides me and a few) that he was gonna be a all star and as good or better then D Howard. well how is that prediction working out so far? th nets still suck and lopez's numbers have actually gone done, especially in the rebounding department. give evans sometime before you wanna make a case for him, rose has proven himself bt increasing his stats every single year since he has been in the league.

Sactown
01-22-2011, 06:32 PM
that was one game and I have watched tyreke and Im not saying he will be a bad player, but the jury is still out on him cause he even though he has a lot of potential and seems like he is a gifted player doesn't mean that will all translate. like i said, take brook lopez for example. had good rookie year, even a pretty good second year and everyone was saying (besides me and a few) that he was gonna be a all star and as good or better then D Howard. well how is that prediction working out so far? th nets still suck and lopez's numbers have actually gone done, especially in the rebounding department. give evans sometime before you wanna make a case for him, rose has proven himself bt increasing his stats every single year since he has been in the league.

There is a chance Tyreke never pans out, but to say he doesn't have the potential to be as good as, or better than Rose is ridiculous.. he has the skills and the physical presence to do so. And I agree verdict isn't out, But at this rate he will end up similar skill wise to Rose.

As for the talent remark, if Tyreke had half as much help as Rose he'd average 3-4 assist per game more.

LA_Raiders
01-22-2011, 06:33 PM
Miami heat does not have a big three, they have a huge 2 and a shiney bobble head named chrissy posh aka rue paul.

FACT !!!

lol

D Roses Bulls
01-22-2011, 06:35 PM
Rose playing with far more talent in year 1 didn't hurt his stats. Cmon now.

please don't go down the stats on bad teams argument. Simply put, Reke had a better rookie year. No need to get your panties in a bunch. Reke has a long ways to go, improvement wise, to get to or surpass Rose.

Man, Rose fans need to let their guard down once in a while. He is fantastic, but jesus, there have been better

no you come on. if you play on a bad team, of course your gonna have good stats. look at elton brand his rookie year, look at brook lopez, mike miller and so on and so on. I thought this was pretty common knowledge and so what is reke's stats were a little better, how did that play out for him that year? did the kings make the playoffs? NO!!! and why did the bulls make the playoffs that year? because of rose.

Sactown
01-22-2011, 06:36 PM
no you come on. if you play on a bad team, of course your gonna have good stats. look at elton brand his rookie year, look at brook lopez, mike miller and so on and so on. I thought this was pretty common knowledge and so what is reke's stats were a little better, how did that play out for him that year? did the kings make the playoffs? NO!!! and why did the bulls make the playoffs that year? because of rose.

He might raise his PPG, but it'd be hard to raise your assists when no one can make a basket.. there is a trade off. And Rose isn't the only reason they made the playoffs... ask Kobe

D Roses Bulls
01-22-2011, 06:38 PM
There is a chance Tyreke never pans out, but to say he doesn't have the potential to be as good as, or better than Rose is ridiculous.. he has the skills and the physical presence to do so. And I agree verdict isn't out, But at this rate he will end up similar skill wise to Rose.

As for the talent remark, if Tyreke had half as much help as Rose he'd average 3-4 assist per game more.

yeah well just from watching Reke, I dont know if he has the drive to be better. I mean I could be wrong, but I don't know. that's what I meant. of course potential is a different story. hell deshawn stevenson according to some had the potential to be michael jordan, I mean how did that work out? reke, though never played on a team with gordan and deng especially back in those days where all they did was get the ball dribble it for about 10 seconds and chuck a shot up. deng has since changed some, but watch ben gordan sometime, you will see what im talkin about.

Hawkeye15
01-22-2011, 06:38 PM
no you come on. if you play on a bad team, of course your gonna have good stats. look at elton brand his rookie year, look at brook lopez, mike miller and so on and so on. I thought this was pretty common knowledge and so what is reke's stats were a little better, how did that play out for him that year? did the kings make the playoffs? NO!!! and why did the bulls make the playoffs that year? because of rose.

if you are really good, sure. Playing for a bad team doesn't inflate your stats, unless you care only about per game. Which you know I don't.

Sactown
01-22-2011, 06:41 PM
yeah well just from watching Reke, I dont know if he has the drive to be better. I mean I could be wrong, but I don't know. that's what I meant. of course potential is a different story. hell deshawnda stevenson according to some had the potential to be michael jordan, I mean how did that work out? reke, though never played on a team with gordan and deng especially back in those days where all they did was get the ball dribble it for about 10 seconds and chuck a shot up. deng has since changed some, but watch ben gordan sometime, you will see what im talkin about.

Tyreke has spent plenty of time working on his jump shot and it has improved.. By him playing hurt all these games proves to me he has the drive to become better.. Him getting a weight trainer in the 7th grade proves to me he has the drive to get better.. the only thing that worries me is he doesn't know when to give it a break..

The Final Boss
01-22-2011, 06:43 PM
Lebron is the best player in the league.

D Roses Bulls
01-22-2011, 06:44 PM
if you are really good, sure. Playing for a bad team doesn't inflate your stats, unless you care only about per game. Which you know I don't.

of course you have to be talented to put up numbers, but still there is gonna be some inflation in those stats. a lot of players care about their stats so they can get paid their next big contract. being a wolves fan, you should of known that by watching Al Jefferson. that guy was looking like a top 2-4 PF in the league and I know he had a Injury, but that's no excuse why he isn't putting up the same numbers today that he was then, but that's where inflation comes in. With medical technology the way it is today, I don't let a injury like that be the excuse of why someone isnt producing like they use to especially when others have had just as bad of injuries and are producing either the same or better then before like Amare Stoudemire.

D Roses Bulls
01-22-2011, 06:49 PM
Tyreke has spent plenty of time working on his jump shot and it has improved.. By him playing hurt all these games proves to me he has the drive to become better.. Him getting a weight trainer in the 7th grade proves to me he has the drive to get better.. the only thing that worries me is he doesn't know when to give it a break..

we shall see how good he will become. I odn't doubt he can be real good, but I do question it.

DieHardCubFan
01-22-2011, 06:54 PM
Rondo>Rose

No way!!!:laugh::no::facepalm:

DerekRE_3
01-22-2011, 06:54 PM
this is a case where stats are bad to use. look at who the kings had evans rookie year to who rose had his rookie year. rose played with BG, Hinrich, Salmons(for a half a season), and Deng. that took the ball out of his hands, caused his stats to not look as good. when your the main option on a bad team, of course your numbers are gonna look better. Also how did rookie stats work out for Brook Lopez? seems like he has turned into the center most of you guys thought he would end up becoming.

You have to look past just the better numbers because he was the main option on a bad team. You also have to remember how hard it is to be the #1 guy when there is literally nobody else on your team. Teams knew all they had to do was stop Tyreke and the game was over. Despite that, he never hit the rookie wall and if anything got better over the season.

Tyreke was remarkably consistent his rookie season. If you look at his splits, there is hardly any difference month to month. Near the end of the year when we got Carl Landry, the only thing that changed for Tyreke was his assists (they went up). Usually over a season teams start to figure a player out. That didn't happen to Reke.

Tyreke also lead the entire league in field goal attempts at the rim and was tied for made field goals at the rim. That's astounding for a rookie. What's even more impressive is how few of those makes were assisted. He was doing it all by himself. About 25% of his field goals at the rim were assisted. To put that in perspective, about half of Lebron's attempts at the rim were assisted.

For Tyreke to be so productive with very little pieces around him, while maintaining a decent efficiency (more efficient than Lebron was as a rookie) at the age of 20 is pretty amazing. Unfortunately, he hasn't been healthy all year so he hasn't been able to build on his rookie season.

arkanian215
01-22-2011, 07:05 PM
how do I act smarter haha? Um, providing evidence for opinions is acting smarter?

according to synergy, Monta is ranked #166 in the NBA for his opponents counterproduction.

umm yeah.

Sactown
01-22-2011, 07:07 PM
You have to look past just the better numbers because he was the main option on a bad team. You also have to remember how hard it is to be the #1 guy when there is literally nobody else on your team. Teams knew all they had to do was stop Tyreke and the game was over. Despite that, he never hit the rookie wall and if anything got better over the season.

Tyreke was remarkably consistent his rookie season. If you look at his splits, there is hardly any difference month to month. Near the end of the year when we got Carl Landry, the only thing that changed for Tyreke was his assists (they went up). Usually over a season teams start to figure a player out. That didn't happen to Reke.

Tyreke also lead the entire league in field goal attempts at the rim and was tied for made field goals at the rim. That's astounding for a rookie. What's even more impressive is how few of those makes were assisted. He was doing it all by himself. About 25% of his field goals at the rim were assisted. To put that in perspective, about half of Lebron's attempts at the rim were assisted.

For Tyreke to be so productive with very little pieces around him, while maintaining a decent efficiency (more efficient than Lebron was as a rookie) at the age of 20 is pretty amazing. Unfortunately, he hasn't been healthy all year so he hasn't been able to build on his rookie season.

All the layups Thompson missed :facepalm:

Chucky Woods
01-22-2011, 07:14 PM
No way!!!:laugh::no::facepalm:Your right, Rondo>Any bulls player, is way more reasonable.

Jsoul101
01-22-2011, 07:15 PM
Rondo>Rose
This makes no sense to me
how can you judge two point guards with totally different team mates and make a conclusion like that?
Rondo is surrounded by the former big 3s
where Rose is surrounded by young developing players
They are both great point guards, but how can you say Rondo>Rose?
Explain please

Raph12
01-22-2011, 07:24 PM
dwight is a poor offensive option...

Sactown
01-22-2011, 07:24 PM
This makes no sense to me
how can you judge two point guards with totally different team mates and make a conclusion like that?
Rondo is surrounded by the former big 3s
where Rose is surrounded by young developing players
They are both great point guards, but how can you say Rondo>Rose?
Explain please

Rondo is a better play maker, while Rose is superior in scoring.. they play the same position, but entirely differently.. they're almost impossible to compare.

Jsoul101
01-22-2011, 07:30 PM
Rondo is a better play maker, while Rose is superior in scoring.. they play the same position, but entirely differently.. they're almost impossible to compare.
Pretty sure Rose will become an extremely talented play maker if he was surrounded by team mates that can score efficiently

Sactown
01-22-2011, 07:34 PM
Pretty sure Rose will become an extremely talented play maker if he was surrounded by team mates that can score efficiently

And Celtic fans are pretty sure Rondo will become a great shooter.

Hawkeye15
01-22-2011, 07:37 PM
of course you have to be talented to put up numbers, but still there is gonna be some inflation in those stats. a lot of players care about their stats so they can get paid their next big contract. being a wolves fan, you should of known that by watching Al Jefferson. that guy was looking like a top 2-4 PF in the league and I know he had a Injury, but that's no excuse why he isn't putting up the same numbers today that he was then, but that's where inflation comes in. With medical technology the way it is today, I don't let a injury like that be the excuse of why someone isnt producing like they use to especially when others have had just as bad of injuries and are producing either the same or better then before like Amare Stoudemire.

Al Jefferson in year 4 is different than two rookies.

I am saying Reke had a better rookie year. And I will stand by that. I will be back in a while to debate if you like.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-22-2011, 07:50 PM
This makes no sense to me
how can you judge two point guards with totally different team mates and make a conclusion like that?
Rondo is surrounded by the former big 3s
where Rose is surrounded by young developing players
They are both great point guards, but how can you say Rondo>Rose?
Explain please

lol guys read what OP wants:laugh:

ManRam
01-22-2011, 07:56 PM
how do I act smarter haha? Um, providing evidence for opinions is acting smarter?

according to synergy, Monta is ranked #166 in the NBA for his opponents counterproduction.

"Acting smart" is not allowed on PSD. We must be dumb and use archaic and less-telling stats, as well as using logic that isn't based on sound logic.

D Roses Bulls
01-22-2011, 08:42 PM
You have to look past just the better numbers because he was the main option on a bad team. You also have to remember how hard it is to be the #1 guy when there is literally nobody else on your team. Teams knew all they had to do was stop Tyreke and the game was over. Despite that, he never hit the rookie wall and if anything got better over the season.

Tyreke was remarkably consistent his rookie season. If you look at his splits, there is hardly any difference month to month. Near the end of the year when we got Carl Landry, the only thing that changed for Tyreke was his assists (they went up). Usually over a season teams start to figure a player out. That didn't happen to Reke.

Tyreke also lead the entire league in field goal attempts at the rim and was tied for made field goals at the rim. That's astounding for a rookie. What's even more impressive is how few of those makes were assisted. He was doing it all by himself. About 25% of his field goals at the rim were assisted. To put that in perspective, about half of Lebron's attempts at the rim were assisted.

For Tyreke to be so productive with very little pieces around him, while maintaining a decent efficiency (more efficient than Lebron was as a rookie) at the age of 20 is pretty amazing. Unfortunately, he hasn't been healthy all year so he hasn't been able to build on his rookie season.

Again, efficiency is ok and all, but it doesn't tell the big picture but if you wanna look at Evans Field goal percentage at 45.8 while Rose was 47.5 percent while only average .2 minutes less. so its not like rose played a lot less then evans right there to tell why evans was almost 2 percent lower. Evans attempted 1165 shots that season while Rose attempted 1208 and played in 10 less games then rose did. so its not like rose attempted less either and was still more accurate. Speaking of playing is less games, rose also made the playoffs that year and averaged 19.7,6.4,and 6.4 while shooting 49 percent with increased minutes as well. so not only as he went on, he got better, he increased his stats in the playoffs against one of the better defenders according to most of you in this game in rondo in a 7 games as well. If Evans played another 10 games in the regular season, we could of seen his field goal percentage drop another couple points, not thats not a guaranteed, but usually as the year goes on, rookies begin to hit that wall from not being use to playing 82 games. it's not guaranteed his numbers would of dropped, but a if history shows us anything, a likely scenario. by the way, evans averaged 5 assists his rookie season, 90 percent of the teams in the NBA no matter how bad has a point guard average 4-5 assists a game. I can make a case for inflation for a lot of rookies in the past 20 years who have played on garbage teams and had good numbers.

D Roses Bulls
01-22-2011, 08:43 PM
Al Jefferson in year 4 is different than two rookies.

I am saying Reke had a better rookie year. And I will stand by that. I will be back in a while to debate if you like.

yeah and also jefferson was playing on a team with walker and pierce. look what happen when he got into a situation where he was number 1 option and had no one else around him. his numbers sky rocketed. and yes we can debate later.

Sactown
01-22-2011, 08:47 PM
Again, efficiency is ok and all, but it doesn't tell the big picture but if you wanna look at Evans Field goal percentage at 45.8 while Rose was 47.5 percent while only average .2 minutes less. so its not like rose played a lot less then evans right there to tell why evans was almost 2 percent lower. Evans attempted 1165 shots that season while Rose attempted 1208 and played in 10 less games then rose did. so its not like rose attempted less either and was still more accurate. Speaking of playing is less games, rose also made the playoffs that year and averaged 19.7,6.4,and 6.4 while shooting 49 percent with increased minutes as well. so not only as he went on, he got better, he increased his stats in the playoffs against one of the better defenders according to most of you in this game in rondo in a 7 games as well. If Evans played another 10 games in the regular season, we could of seen his field goal percentage drop another couple points, not thats not a guaranteed, but usually as the year goes on, rookies begin to hit that wall from not being use to playing 82 games. it's not guaranteed his numbers would of dropped, but a if history shows us anything, a likely scenario. by the way, evans averaged 5 assists his rookie season, 90 percent of the teams in the NBA no matter how bad has a point guard average 4-5 assists a game. I can make a case for inflation for a lot of rookies in the past 20 years who have played on garbage teams and had good numbers.

You assume Tyreke wouldn't step it up in the playoffs.. and I'm sure he wouldn't of been worse off with 10 more games as he only had 2-3 slip ups in the 82 game season.. he was consistent.. also if they Kings had the talent Rose had/has I bet money he'd average 2-3 more assists per game...

DerekRE_3
01-22-2011, 08:51 PM
Again, efficiency is ok and all, but it doesn't tell the big picture but if you wanna look at Evans Field goal percentage at 45.8 while Rose was 47.5 percent while only average .2 minutes less. so its not like rose played a lot less then evans right there to tell why evans was almost 2 percent lower. Evans attempted 1165 shots that season while Rose attempted 1208 and played in 10 less games then rose did. so its not like rose attempted less either and was still more accurate. Speaking of playing is less games, rose also made the playoffs that year and averaged 19.7,6.4,and 6.4 while shooting 49 percent with increased minutes as well. so not only as he went on, he got better, he increased his stats in the playoffs against one of the better defenders according to most of you in this game in rondo in a 7 games as well. If Evans played another 10 games in the regular season, we could of seen his field goal percentage drop another couple points, not thats not a guaranteed, but usually as the year goes on, rookies begin to hit that wall from not being use to playing 82 games. it's not guaranteed his numbers would of dropped, but a if history shows us anything, a likely scenario. by the way, evans averaged 5 assists his rookie season, 90 percent of the teams in the NBA no matter how bad has a point guard average 4-5 assists a game. I can make a case for inflation for a lot of rookies in the past 20 years who have played on garbage teams and had good numbers.

Evans averaged 6 assists a game last season. And he split time at that position with Beno Udrih. The Kings system doesn't really have a primary point guard. It has two guards that both handle the ball. Not only that, his teammates blew god knows how many assists for Reke. He can set guys up all he wants, they have to finish (talking to you Jason Thompson and Spencer Hawes).

And assuming that Tyreke would have dropped FG% wise if had he played 10 more games is a huge, huge stretch. And once again, considering how little help Tyreke had it's pretty impressive the numbers and efficiency he was able to maintain even after teams got more and more game film on him. Even when teams knew exactly what he was going to do he still got to the rim at will. If he ever gets some shooters, watch out. That lane will open up. The fact that he lead the NBA with attempts at the rim without a jumpshot is crazy.

D Roses Bulls
01-22-2011, 09:29 PM
Evans averaged 6 assists a game last season. And he split time at that position with Beno Udrih. The Kings system doesn't really have a primary point guard. It has two guards that both handle the ball. Not only that, his teammates blew god knows how many assists for Reke. He can set guys up all he wants, they have to finish (talking to you Jason Thompson and Spencer Hawes).

And assuming that Tyreke would have dropped FG% wise if had he played 10 more games is a huge, huge stretch. And once again, considering how little help Tyreke had it's pretty impressive the numbers and efficiency he was able to maintain even after teams got more and more game film on him. Even when teams knew exactly what he was going to do he still got to the rim at will. If he ever gets some shooters, watch out. That lane will open up. The fact that he lead the NBA with attempts at the rim without a jumpshot is crazy.

If you wanna round it up, it would be 6, but actually 5.7 assists. also its not a big stretch to assume a rookie's production will drop especially when you look at history of it happening every year as the year goes on. it's an assumption yes, but according to history it always happens.

D Roses Bulls
01-22-2011, 09:32 PM
You assume Tyreke wouldn't step it up in the playoffs.. and I'm sure he wouldn't of been worse off with 10 more games as he only had 2-3 slip ups in the 82 game season.. he was consistent.. also if they Kings had the talent Rose had/has I bet money he'd average 2-3 more assists per game...

as I said in an earlier post, rose would of averaged more assists if gordan and deng didnt have a tendency of dribbling the ball for 10 seconds before they shot it. also saying reke would of stepped up in the playoffs is a big "IF". he didnt make the playoffs for one and for two, you really don't know his averages will go up and down. that's usually what separates the special players from the not so special players is what they do in the playoffs.

Hawkeye15
01-22-2011, 09:45 PM
umm yeah.

that is my b then

Hellcrooner
01-22-2011, 10:33 PM
I could say it.

but since everybody woudl see it coming ill save my time.


you all know what.

so ill go and say something different.

"Iverson was a great player".

DerekRE_3
01-22-2011, 10:37 PM
If you wanna round it up, it would be 6, but actually 5.7 assists. also its not a big stretch to assume a rookie's production will drop especially when you look at history of it happening every year as the year goes on. it's an assumption yes, but according to history it always happens.

Well you rounded down to around 4 or 5 assists a game. So I thought I could round 5.7 up to 6. You really think Reke missing 10 games made him avoid the rookie wall? Please. He played through the whole season and missed a game or two here and there (a lot of players miss a few games). You are acting like he only missed the last 10 games and therefore avoided the rookie wall. All you have to do is look at his monthly splits. It's remarkably consistent.

I hope you don't mind me excluding october since it's 3 games.

November: 20.3 PPG 5.1 APG 5.5 RPG
December: 22.1 PPG 5.1 APG 5.3 RPG
January: 20.7 PPG 5.1 APG 3.5 RPG
February: 20.1 PPG 7.0 APG 5.8 RPG
March: 19.4 PPG 7.5 APG 6.9 RPG
April (6 games): 19.5 PPG 5.3 APG 5.8 RPG

Hustlenomics
01-22-2011, 10:59 PM
joe johnson 32 points, 5 assists, 5 boards

Chronz
01-22-2011, 11:19 PM
All-Defensive selections are the pinnacle measurements of defensive ability

Players know the game better than anyone

Joe Johnson is an elite player

LeBron has no post game, is a subpar shooter and an overrated defender

Monta makes his teammates better

Steals = bad defender
Steals = good defender

Having bad teammates inflates your stats
Having good teammates inflates your stats

Above all else winning matters

Chronz
01-22-2011, 11:20 PM
joe johnson 32 points, 5 assists, 5 boards

1 game

Hellcrooner
01-22-2011, 11:21 PM
The worst myth of all.

Player x ( as in im not tlaking bout any one in special) LEADS the team to titles and is the ONLY REASON and Main reason and the begginging and end of it all in winning a title.

Hawkeye15
01-23-2011, 12:10 AM
All-Defensive selections are the pinnacle measurements of defensive ability

Players know the game better than anyone

Joe Johnson is an elite player

LeBron has no post game, is a subpar shooter and an overrated defender

Monta makes his teammates better

Steals = bad defender
Steals = good defender

Having bad teammates inflates your stats
Having good teammates inflates your stats

Above all else winning matters

You missed, "Defense wins championships"

Gators123
01-23-2011, 12:23 AM
The worst myth of all.

Player x ( as in im not tlaking bout any one in special) LEADS the team to titles and is the ONLY REASON and Main reason and the begginging and end of it all in winning a title.

Admit it, your talking about Kobe :eyebrow:

TehSamurai
01-23-2011, 12:46 AM
How is Oden not a bust when he will only play a fourth of Trail Blazers games since he was drafted?

If a player didn't live up to expectations but actually played games, that would make him a bust? The way to not be a bust is to not play games, apparently.

Hellcrooner
01-23-2011, 12:49 AM
Admit it, your talking about Kobe :eyebrow:

MJ, Wade, Shaq, Duncan and so on.

Bookey
01-23-2011, 12:54 AM
What makes you think tyreke will be better then d.rose,d.rose is only gonna get better,tyreke is not even a point guard for real,d.rose will be the best point guard if he is not already,& then he will be the best guard overall,d.rose 4 mvp bi*****

Korman12
01-23-2011, 01:02 AM
what makes you think tyreke will be better then d.rose,d.rose is only gonna get better,tyreke is not even a point guard for real,d.rose will be the best point guard if he is not already,& then he will be the best guard overall,d.rose 4 mvp bi*****

k

TheDiggler
01-23-2011, 07:46 AM
What makes you think tyreke will be better then d.rose,d.rose is only gonna get better,tyreke is not even a point guard for real,d.rose will be the best point guard if he is not already,& then he will be the best guard overall,d.rose 4 mvp bi*****

Good example for a NBA Myth !

Rose is the and/or will be the best PG in the NBA (well, currently D-Will is the best PG and prolly will stay that. If not Russell Westbrook) :smoking:

ManRam
01-23-2011, 12:58 PM
All-Defensive selections are the pinnacle measurements of defensive ability

Players know the game better than anyone

Joe Johnson is an elite player

LeBron has no post game, is a subpar shooter and an overrated defender

Monta makes his teammates better

Steals = bad defender
Steals = good defender

Having bad teammates inflates your stats
Having good teammates inflates your stats

Above all else winning matters

I agree with all these. But, above all else I agree with the last one (in terms of comparing two players)

CHANGO
01-23-2011, 01:13 PM
If it's playoffs, you're the worst team and your team won't reach the finals.
If it's MVP Awards, your team is good, and can win many games.

The beauty of how some use different terms to compare.

DerekRE_3
01-23-2011, 02:19 PM
What makes you think tyreke will be better then d.rose,d.rose is only gonna get better,tyreke is not even a point guard for real,d.rose will be the best point guard if he is not already,& then he will be the best guard overall,d.rose 4 mvp bi*****

Who said he would be? The argument was who had the better rookie year. And Tyreke's position (which is a guard) has nothing to do with it.

Hustlenomics
01-23-2011, 04:31 PM
"There's been a lot of negativity out there," Oden said. "I just try not to deal with that. I'll be back. All I can do is control myself and what I'm going through."

KingPosey
01-23-2011, 05:26 PM
Ive got some

Michael Jordan wouldn't average 40-50 points a game in today's game if he wanted too.

Tyreke Evans is just as good as rose.

Dwight Howard is limited offensively

Im a King's fan and i dont think anyone is saying that.

thekmp211
01-23-2011, 08:26 PM
good players on bad teams arent winners

basketball skill is equal to basketball value

lebron james lacks killer instinct

netsgiantsyanks
01-23-2011, 08:42 PM
What makes you think tyreke will be better then d.rose,d.rose is only gonna get better,tyreke is not even a point guard for real,d.rose will be the best point guard if he is not already,& then he will be the best guard overall,d.rose 4 mvp bi*****

k

KnicksorBust
01-23-2011, 10:05 PM
No way for me to prove it but I hate when people say that older generations wouldn't be able to cut it in the *modern* NBA.

chitown4eva88
01-23-2011, 10:25 PM
Rondo>Rose

I hate when ppl say this is true!!!!

thekmp211
01-23-2011, 11:24 PM
No way for me to prove it but I hate when people say that older generations wouldn't be able to cut it in the *modern* NBA.

this, but also the inverse.

Sixerlover
01-23-2011, 11:55 PM
here is a myth: the pg is the most important piece to title contending teams

h2r09
01-23-2011, 11:57 PM
No way for me to prove it but I hate when people say that older generations wouldn't be able to cut it in the *modern* NBA.

i think that is very true actually. people in the 50's and 60's were not close to as strong and athletic as the people in todays nba. they were more skilled but the non great players would get pushed around.

jasonbird
01-24-2011, 05:08 AM
here post up things you hear about teams and players that you feel aren't true
few of mine


- only thing Carmelo does is score (he rebounds and opens up shots for his teammates)
-Rondo is only good because of the players around him (he makes their jobs much easier and he's shown he can play when any of them go down with an injury)
-Celtics are too old *Once they end up running through your favorite team* (oh they're still elite ! )
-Iguodala is a stat stuffer (he gets his stats by playing hard and he ain't all about the stats)
-Bogut is the best player on the Bucks (Jennings is)
-Joe Johnson isn't a max contract player (check his resume)
-Rondo can't hit an open shot to save his life (he's been making plenty open shots)
-Greg Oden is a bust (he got a lot of time left in his career and in the times he's played he's shown he can be a good player)
\\

it doesnt sounds like myths,,
i know something of them

;)

Mudvayne91
01-24-2011, 05:26 AM
^ agreed. You have SGs and SFs as big as, if not bigger than Cs back then.

abe_froman
01-24-2011, 05:40 AM
i think that is very true actually. people in the 50's and 60's were not close to as strong and athletic as the people in todays nba. they were more skilled but the non great players would get pushed around.
no,no they werent.go watch a game from the 1950's

here is a myth: the pg is the most important piece to title contending teams
this

No way for me to prove it but I hate when people say that older generations wouldn't be able to cut it in the *modern* NBA.
i hate when people with very poor knowledge of the past glorify it

JayW_1023
01-24-2011, 07:28 AM
The Spurs are old. While the Lakers are actually an older team.

Nobody beats a 'Lakers are too old'-horse though.

ManRam
01-24-2011, 12:20 PM
here is a myth: the pg is the most important piece to title contending teams

Agreed. By far the most over-appreciated and over-hyped position in all of sports. In no way are they the "QBs of basketball"...not 1/50th as important as a QB. Just look at NBA Finals winning teams...not a ton of elite PGs.

evadatam5150
01-24-2011, 08:49 PM
here post up things you hear about teams and players that you feel aren't true
few of mine


- only thing Carmelo does is score (he rebounds and opens up shots for his teammates)
-Rondo is only good because of the players around him (he makes their jobs much easier and he's shown he can play when any of them go down with an injury)
-Celtics are too old *Once they end up running through your favorite team* (oh they're still elite ! )
-Iguodala is a stat stuffer (he gets his stats by playing hard and he ain't all about the stats)
-Bogut is the best player on the Bucks (Jennings is)
-Joe Johnson isn't a max contract player (check his resume)
-Rondo can't hit an open shot to save his life (he's been making plenty open shots)
-Greg Oden is a bust (he got a lot of time left in his career and in the times he's played he's shown he can be a good player)

Pierce = HOF

Academy award winner sure.. :D

evadatam5150
01-24-2011, 08:53 PM
The Spurs are old. While the Lakers are actually an older team.

Nobody beats a 'Lakers are too old'-horse though.

Em I can concur with BOTH teams are old.. Trying to say one is and one isn't is a stretch.. The Spurs just happen to be playing better than the Lakers at the moment.. In fact I wouldn't be at all surprised if they bottom out about three quarters a way through the season.. Prune juice and gerritol for everybody.. :clap:

JayW_1023
01-25-2011, 05:25 AM
^^^ Just saying that not many people stigmatize the Lakers as 'too old'.

Spurs fans have been hearing the 'too old'-thing for five years straight now.

D1JM
01-25-2011, 06:26 AM
Lebron > MJ is a myth!