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View Full Version : Do The Lakers Need Kobe to...Shoot more?



Dr. RPG
01-20-2011, 12:40 AM
Over the past few weeks I look at the box score and noticeable difference with the lakers winning or losing.

For example just tonight the lakers lose 109-100. Kobe shot in a very good percentage 10-18 but it seems to me after looking at those type of FGA, if Kobe shoots less then 20 shots, Lakers struggle to win or come out with a L. But if Kobe shoots 20 or more shots a game, whether he shoots them in a good percentage or not, Lakers come out with a solid win.

Is this the reason why Kobe needs to shoot a lot to have his team win, or us there another logical explanation for this?

Any thoughts?

AddiX
01-20-2011, 12:41 AM
Kobe agrees....

MrfadeawayJB
01-20-2011, 12:42 AM
They need the frontline to play consistently, they also need shannon brown to stop shooting 3's and dunk on some people to energize the team....kobe is the motor that runs the lakers

210Don
01-20-2011, 12:42 AM
if he was younger yes........

ChiSox219
01-20-2011, 12:47 AM
Kobe is already shooting more often than any player in the NBA and by a significant margin.

With the talent LA has, I think the most effective offense is one that follows the flow of the triangle. Gasol gets shots as often as Felton and Glen Davis, sounds like he needs the ball more.

SiR Lakers III
01-20-2011, 12:49 AM
Are you a lakers fan? Anyways Lakers have a losing record when Kobe attempts more then 20 shots just saying .

ldawg
01-20-2011, 12:50 AM
no they need Melo. Walton is useless. Fisher, Kobe and Artest don,t push the ball. A player like melo will help spread the floor like Ray Allen does. Artest is not a bad player just a bad fit with Kobe and Fisher.

J4KOP99
01-20-2011, 12:54 AM
The Lakers need two things:

1)complete health

2)The Playoffs

210Don
01-20-2011, 12:55 AM
to be honest i dont think this laker team has enough offense & their defense isnt that good

Avenged
01-20-2011, 12:56 AM
Bruno has posted a stat regarding Pau Gasol and his shots.. I'm not sure exactly what it was but it was something along the lines of Pau shooting a certain amount of shots resulting in the Lakers winning more..

Dr. RPG
01-20-2011, 01:09 AM
Are you a lakers fan? Anyways Lakers have a losing record when Kobe attempts more then 20 shots just saying .

Not quite, just something I noticed and thought I mention as a topic here in the forums.

blueplanet
01-20-2011, 01:12 AM
what? It's been almost a law now "The more the Kobe shoots, the more the Lakers lose." Didn't you know that? Honestly, the Lakers should run their offense through Gasol and Kobe needs to take the back seat and play the 4th quarter hard. Lakers look unstoppable most of the time when they play through Gasol. Rational Lakers fans (not kobe fans) know what I am saying.

shep33
01-20-2011, 01:14 AM
Lakers are fine. They need to get heathy, really losing Barnes is a big blow. Bynum is getting there. People don't remember that basically winning your 3rd in a row is extremely tough... Look at the Bulls in the late 90s.

72-10
69-13
62-20

And in each year, the playoffs got harder and harder for them. Gotta understand that when you win championships, you have the biggest target on your back. Teams measure up to you, playing at their highest level against the champs.

Also, the Lakers are clearly resting players and trying to cruise... I mean Kobe is playing a career low in minutes, and there are games like tonight where he was playing a great game, but Phil still decides to rest him for 6-8 minutes (game time). He's done this basically every game this year, whereas in the past he'd just leave Kobe in to get the Lakers a win. Noth this year though... I trust Phil's judgements though.

Patman
01-20-2011, 01:19 AM
Not quite, just something I noticed and thought I mention as a topic here in the forums.

Your impression is wrong though.

before the game today kobe shot more in losses then he did when the lakers are winning

Wins : 18 FGA/gm
Losses: 23 FGA/gm

So this would indicate that the lakers are worse if kobe takes 20+ shots not better.

Lim
01-20-2011, 01:19 AM
he should shoot less imo. this isnt 2006 where he needs to take 25 shots a game, he has bynum,odom,gasol. give more touches to them. and yeah, the lakers are gonna be fine

Hellcrooner
01-20-2011, 01:29 AM
its just the oposite of what op says.

kblo247
01-20-2011, 01:30 AM
Kobe is already shooting more often than any player in the NBA and by a significant margin.

With the talent LA has, I think the most effective offense is one that follows the flow of the triangle. Gasol gets shots as often as Felton and Glen Davis, sounds like he needs the ball more.

You know that Kobe averaged 18 shots per game for the months of December (47%) and is on 18 per this month (at over 47%), right? He has shot the ball 3 times per game less the past two months on average than he did in November, while shooting over 5% better months.

You are also very short sided with the Pau comment. Pau gets his touches but no one but Pau can make him shoot the ball. Stu Lantz went off on a tangent about Pau holding the ball the past two months and then passing it back out to Kobe or LO on the perimeter against the clock. Pau shoots enough a night. In fact he has averaged basically the same amount of attempts per game as LA's second option that he did in Memphis as the first option. His conversion rate is just better because of the attention Kobe gets, much like most of Kobe's teammates historically. (By the way he shoots about a shot and half less while playing 4 or 5 less minutes with Bynum back so there isn't much change in anything but his mentality since the past couple of months as he is either off or on sadly with his effort level)

As for the topic at hand, no. He is about where he should be on average. LO, Pau, Fish, and Andrew are also about where they need to be. The only changes that need to be made is for Artest and Blake to take shots when open instead of passing them up and for Shannon to cut back on his isolation plays at least until Barnes comes back to clean up his messes on the offensive glass.

C-Style
01-20-2011, 02:47 AM
Kobe during 2007 - 2010:

50+ points: 2 wins 1 loss
40-49 points: 11 wins 5 losses (.68)
30-39 points: 52 wins 21 losses (.71)
20-29 points: 73 wins 28 losses (.72)
10-19 points: 33 wins 9 losses (.79)
0-9 points: 2 wins 0 loss

iggypop123
01-20-2011, 03:22 AM
the lakers need to try on defense. not play good defense. just try. just trying can win them games.

shep33
01-20-2011, 03:24 AM
the lakers need to try on defense. not play good defense. just try. just trying can win them games.

This... I don't understand why they don't try on defense some games. Look at the Finals vs Boston, they played shut down defense. So we know they can do it, but they're just lazy.

kblo247
01-20-2011, 03:31 AM
This... I don't understand why they don't try on defense some games. Look at the Finals vs Boston, they played shut down defense. So we know they can do it, but they're just lazy.

I'd put money on the fact that they will try versus Boston in the next 2 upcoming games out of respect. If you aren't a team that has beaten them in a series (Boston) they look and act like you aren't good enough to be a threat to them.

Call it arrogance, swagger, whatever but it is the truth

They did the same last year, Kobe just had his legs under him to start the season and hit 7 game winners (well 6 and 1 go ahead versus Dallas) to offset those lapses, so they could just get by.

idrinkpepsi
01-20-2011, 03:39 AM
Ask the Lakers forum.

Bruno
01-20-2011, 03:54 AM
Bruno has posted a stat regarding Pau Gasol and his shots.. I'm not sure exactly what it was but it was something along the lines of Pau shooting a certain amount of shots resulting in the Lakers winning more..

Right, there is a thread for it.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=567034

When Gasol shoots 7+ free throws the Lakers are 14-1.
When Gasol shoots less than six FTAs the Lakers are 17-12. Including tonight's loss at Dallas.

Bruno
01-20-2011, 03:55 AM
Ask the Lakers forum.

It's nice to get some neutral fan opinions on team specific things too.

Lim
01-20-2011, 04:04 AM
Kobe during 2007 - 2010:

50+ points: 2 wins 1 loss
40-49 points: 11 wins 5 losses (.68)
30-39 points: 52 wins 21 losses (.71)
20-29 points: 73 wins 28 losses (.72)
10-19 points: 33 wins 9 losses (.79)
0-9 points: 2 wins 0 loss

if that stat is true that is funny as ***** because its exact opposite of what op is saying/asking lol

Eg714
01-20-2011, 04:07 AM
Lakers need to play the whole game. They get a lead and then they get comfortable and don't finish the game strong. Kobe has been playing really well for the lakers the past month being a facilitator first then scoring when he needs to at a higher percentage than usuall. He's not the problem. Other lakers need to step up but there's still half a season left so I'm not really worried.

Anilyzer
01-20-2011, 04:39 AM
Over the past few weeks I look at the box score and noticeable difference with the lakers winning or losing.

For example just tonight the lakers lose 109-100. Kobe shot in a very good percentage 10-18 but it seems to me after looking at those type of FGA, if Kobe shoots less then 20 shots, Lakers struggle to win or come out with a L. But if Kobe shoots 20 or more shots a game, whether he shoots them in a good percentage or not, Lakers come out with a solid win.

Is this the reason why Kobe needs to shoot a lot to have his team win, or us there another logical explanation for this?

Any thoughts?


I think it is a random statitistical variation... just imo. It could have something to do with, when the Lakers are winning, Kobe lightens up and takes a few extra bad shots or something, but it doesn't matter

a more telling stat to look at would be how many FGAs Kobe takes in the first quarter or something like that... maybe

but yeah--I do feel like when Kobe is "on" that is usually a win. You don't often see Kobe have an awesome game and they lose. Kobe is still somewhat underrated... and this year, with the injury reports, it's become even more fashionable to underrate him. But all he does is win rings, y'know?
And if Kobe wasn't on that team, I mean, they're not going far with just Gasol, and Bynum always seems to be somewhat inconsistent.

I mean Odom and Artest are great players, Artest definitely the greater... but Kobe's presence takes them from being a top 5 team or whatever to a team that can dominate for titles and 3peats

sp1derm00
01-20-2011, 05:02 AM
I think a more aggressive Kobe, whether he's shooting a good percentage or not, is better than a Kobe that's playing like he did today. Today, he was almost like CP3. Putting up good PER stats, but not impacting the game like Kobe should.

MTar786
01-20-2011, 05:44 AM
Your impression is wrong though.

before the game today kobe shot more in losses then he did when the lakers are winning

Wins : 18 FGA/gm
Losses: 23 FGA/gm
So this would indicate that the lakers are worse if kobe takes 20+ shots not better.

this stat is VERY misleading though. If the lakers blow out a team by the third quarter and kobe sits out he obviously wont shoot more than 17-18 shots. if the lakers are losing a very close game kobe is our go to guy at the end and takes a lot of difficult shots resulting in higher fga's

ive watched every lakers game since 2000 and i can tell you.. we are at our best when kobe shoots between 20-23 shots, sometimes up to 24... any higher and he hurts the team.. any lower its not good for the team IMO unless someone is on fire. the rest depends on his shot selection .. As long as he isnt forcing up shots or shooting 29 shots a game im happy.

we're not in those days anymore where kobe could make any shot.. he is getting old

MTar786
01-20-2011, 05:47 AM
when kobe scores 60+ the lakers are undefeated. never ever lost

u guys with ur stats.. SOOO irritating

flclfanman
01-20-2011, 06:01 AM
Don't the Lakers win more when he takes less than 20 FGA per game?

Leave him out there for defense and Make Gasol/Odom/Bynum earn their paychecks. After watching that Mavs game tonight he tried to take over but just couldn't

Bravo95
01-20-2011, 02:22 PM
Nope. Pau and Artest need to get in the post and be more aggressive going to the basket though. It would be nice to see more effort on transition defense also.

whitemamba33
01-20-2011, 02:31 PM
Quick Answer: No.

He needs to continue to see what the brilliant minds who made this thread fail to see, and that is that it's a marathon, not a sprint.

Trust me, Kobe Bryant knows what he is doing. And in the rare occasion that he didn't, there is not ONE single piece of advice that you could give him that he hasn't already heard/figured out for himself.

MiKE-THE-FUTURE
01-20-2011, 02:53 PM
I got a feeling their gonna push for a big name..
maybe Melo or prince..G Wallace

JayW_1023
01-21-2011, 04:23 AM
Pau had just 4 attempts in he second half vs. Dallas. That's just not right. I love Kobes competitiveness, but he needs to friggin' trust his teammates and stop shooting when the shots are not falling.

I do believe he will stop his annoying chucking once the playoffs start and there is more at stake though.

dodie53
01-21-2011, 04:48 AM
pau should get more touches

Lakersfan2483
01-21-2011, 04:51 AM
Pau had just 4 attempts in he second half vs. Dallas. That's just not right. I love Kobes competitiveness, but he needs to friggin' trust his teammates and stop shooting when the shots are not falling. I do believe he will stop his annoying chucking once the playoffs start and there is more at stake though. He's only averaging 18 shot attempts per game the last 2 months and his assist totals have increased. In fact, in the game against Dallas, he had 10 assists and only took 18 shots and shot over 50 pct for the game. He's been shooting over 50 pct. lately and has been extremely efficient. In the Dallas game, Pau was the featured player for most of the night and did a great job in the 1st half. As far as the 2nd half is concerned, the 2nd unit (with Kobe sitting on the bench) did a poor job of executing and getting Pau the ball. Also, when Pau did touch the ball he wasn't aggressive with it and kept kicking the ball out forcing his teammates to take low pct. shots with the shot clock down. When Pau gets the ball, he has to be more decisive with it and take more quality shots. Btw, Pau touches the ball quite a bit on the offensive end, it is up to him to be more aggressive though and produce more.

As far as not trusting his teammates, I think that comment is off base as he has for the most part done a good job of distributing the wealth. A lot of people say Gasol needs to get more shots, well I think that is missleading as Pau is averaging around the same amount of shots he averaged as the no. 1 guy in Memphis. All in all, it is not about Kobe not trusting his teammates as much as the Lakers as a whole not playing consistent basketball as they have in years past.

shep33
01-21-2011, 04:52 AM
Pau had just 4 attempts in he second half vs. Dallas. That's just not right. I love Kobes competitiveness, but he needs to friggin' trust his teammates and stop shooting when the shots are not falling.

I do believe he will stop his annoying chucking once the playoffs start and there is more at stake though.

He hasn't been chucking at all though. Also I believe, I could be wrong, but I think Kobe had 5 attempts in the 2nd half against the Mavs. Again I could be wrong. Still 21 points and 10 assists for Kobe that game, on 56% shooting. Kobe has actually been one of the most efficient players in the league this past month.

Lakersfan2483
01-21-2011, 04:58 AM
You know that Kobe averaged 18 shots per game for the months of December (47%) and is on 18 per this month (at over 47%), right? He has shot the ball 3 times per game less the past two months on average than he did in November, while shooting over 5% better months.

You are also very short sided with the Pau comment. Pau gets his touches but no one but Pau can make him shoot the ball. Stu Lantz went off on a tangent about Pau holding the ball the past two months and then passing it back out to Kobe or LO on the perimeter against the clock. Pau shoots enough a night. In fact he has averaged basically the same amount of attempts per game as LA's second option that he did in Memphis as the first option. His conversion rate is just better because of the attention Kobe gets, much like most of Kobe's teammates historically. (By the way he shoots about a shot and half less while playing 4 or 5 less minutes with Bynum back so there isn't much change in anything but his mentality since the past couple of months as he is either off or on sadly with his effort level)

As for the topic at hand, no. He is about where he should be on average. LO, Pau, Fish, and Andrew are also about where they need to be. The only changes that need to be made is for Artest and Blake to take shots when open instead of passing them up and for Shannon to cut back on his isolation plays at least until Barnes comes back to clean up his messes on the offensive glass.

Well said.

Lakersfan2483
01-21-2011, 04:59 AM
He hasn't been chucking at all though. Also I believe, I could be wrong, but I think Kobe had 5 attempts in the 2nd half against the Mavs. Again I could be wrong. Still 21 points and 10 assists for Kobe that game, on 56% shooting. Kobe has actually been one of the most efficient players in the league this past month.

Yes, you are correct.