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View Full Version : Small market teams are making the league a big team market



NYSpirit1
01-19-2011, 07:29 PM
People seem to complain that the league is becoming a league for only big cities.

But it's obvious after today that the small market teams do it to themselves.

The Cavs, Suns, Raptors and now Nuggets front office decimated their franchises by not trading their stars when they needed to, because they thought they could make a "run" with teams that had a 55-60 win ceiling and no championship.

These front offices need to realize that the stars want to be in Miami, Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Boston, etc. and not in Toronto, Denver or Cleveland.

They should learn to trade their stars for younger prospects and rebuild, instead of ending up with nothing.

tdunk21
01-19-2011, 07:43 PM
what a dumb thread....

if san antonio traded tim duncan long back, they wouldnt be having 4 rings.....san antonio is considered a small market team....its not about these small teams...its these stars who demand more pieces to get a ring and then when they cant handle it, they wanna bail out by demanding a trade....

MiKE-THE-FUTURE
01-19-2011, 07:53 PM
Okc is a small place, But I can see them a as a younger San Antonio..
Don't overestimate smaller cities tho

Flash3
01-19-2011, 10:39 PM
miami is a small market team.

ManRam
01-19-2011, 10:40 PM
I think a very, very, very tiny bit of the blame is on the small markets. Even if Cleveland traded LeBron, they wouldn't be contending right now. They might get back to respectability quicker, but they'd sill suck.

It's all about the players right now.

valade16
01-19-2011, 10:44 PM
People seem to complain that the league is becoming a league for only big cities.

But it's obvious after today that the small market teams do it to themselves.

The Cavs, Suns, Raptors and now Nuggets front office decimated their franchises by not trading their stars when they needed to, because they thought they could make a "run" with teams that had a 55-60 win ceiling and no championship.

These front offices need to realize that the stars want to be in Miami, Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Boston, etc. and not in Toronto, Denver or Cleveland.

They should learn to trade their stars for younger prospects and rebuild, instead of ending up with nothing.

So they should be in a perpetual state of rebuilding? Yeah, real smart strategy :rolleyes:

koreancabbage
01-19-2011, 11:24 PM
People seem to complain that the league is becoming a league for only big cities.

But it's obvious after today that the small market teams do it to themselves.

The Cavs, Suns, Raptors and now Nuggets front office decimated their franchises by not trading their stars when they needed to, because they thought they could make a "run" with teams that had a 55-60 win ceiling and no championship.

These front offices need to realize that the stars want to be in Miami, Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Boston, etc. and not in Toronto, Denver or Cleveland.

They should learn to trade their stars for younger prospects and rebuild, instead of ending up with nothing.

Miami is small-market team but they are in a nice city with good temperature. They only became a bigger market with the arrival of Lebron.

Toronto is not a small-market. If you put a winning team in that city, fans all over the country cheer for them and probably put them in the top 10 attendance, over a course of a season, without any big name attraction.

Flash3
01-19-2011, 11:36 PM
People seem to complain that the league is becoming a league for only big cities.

But it's obvious after today that the small market teams do it to themselves.

The Cavs, Suns, Raptors and now Nuggets front office decimated their franchises by not trading their stars when they needed to, because they thought they could make a "run" with teams that had a 55-60 win ceiling and no championship.

These front offices need to realize that the stars want to be in Miami, Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Boston, etc. and not in Toronto, Denver or Cleveland.

They should learn to trade their stars for younger prospects and rebuild, instead of ending up with nothing.

so when those prospects become stars they should say to themselves "wow he is too good now we should trade him to get young pieces" and so on ?

it's funny cause knicks havent gotten anyone with the exception of amare, and that was because phoenix didnt want to pay him ( he said he would have resigned if they offered him the max)

WizFan3
01-19-2011, 11:36 PM
this is a good point that what many teams r doing rite now if u say this istupid its cuz ur a complete idiot or u have a stacked team

LA_Raiders
01-20-2011, 12:21 AM
NBA needs to do something about that. There should be something to level the leverage of the big city teams...

Get rid of the Union, and let the Owners own the teams...

iFYouSeekAmy
01-20-2011, 12:36 AM
Toronto is not a small market team.

ChiSox219
01-20-2011, 12:56 AM
“Milwaukee couldn’t charge as much for a Finals game as the Lakers charge in the regular season.”

-League Executive

valade16
01-20-2011, 01:13 AM
NBA needs to do something about that. There should be something to level the leverage of the big city teams...

Get rid of the Union, and let the Owners own the teams...

That is literally the worst idea. Then you'd have billionaires out bidding for everyone. It would be 10 times worse than it is now.

Hellcrooner
01-20-2011, 02:22 AM
Believe it or not Free market is the option.

snce the 30 owners are ALL millonaires and good players and wining atratc more people and rteh more people the more benefit they make they would simply pay wahts needed to have their teams competitive and being in a small or big market woujldnt mean jack because you just can simply outbid with MONEY the big market atraction.

The market woudl regulate itself.

Kyle N.
01-20-2011, 04:53 AM
^So the richest team would win. Fantastic. The system is fine how it is.

abe_froman
01-20-2011, 04:59 AM
^So the richest team would win. Fantastic. The system is fine how it is.

this.

Mudvayne91
01-20-2011, 05:22 AM
People seem to complain that the league is becoming a league for only big cities.

But it's obvious after today that the small market teams do it to themselves.

The Cavs, Suns, Raptors and now Nuggets front office decimated their franchises by not trading their stars when they needed to, because they thought they could make a "run" with teams that had a 55-60 win ceiling and no championship.

These front offices need to realize that the stars want to be in Miami, Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Boston, etc. and not in Toronto, Denver or Cleveland.

They should learn to trade their stars for younger prospects and rebuild, instead of ending up with nothing.

You should not be allowed to make threads. That simple.

MackShock
01-20-2011, 05:50 AM
since when was miami a bigger market than toronto? toronto is still canada, but its a huge market. the canadian dollar is even worth more than the american dollar now.

Hellcrooner
01-20-2011, 01:43 PM
^So the richest team would win. Fantastic. The system is fine how it is.

mmm let me check, how thing are rollng with salary cap.

Lakers are the richest team.

oh and they never win,

I guess the saalry cap works.....

LanceUpperCut
01-20-2011, 01:52 PM
you should not be allowed to make threads. That simple.

+1

OrderOfCook
01-20-2011, 01:52 PM
Toronto is not a small market team. It sits in a metropolitan area that comprises more than 5 million people, regularly sits in the higher end of attendance figures despite a history of losing, and has Canadian national TV deals which brings the potential audience to 30 million. It is one of the most stable franchises financially in the NBA and is owned by one of the most successful sports-owning companies in the entire world.

People who say Toronto is a small-market team are both ignorant and stupid.

Moving on...

Speaking of big markets: The NY Knicks haven't won a title within the liftetime of anyone that uses PSD, and have been bad or mediocre for a decade now. They're still medicore now. The LA Clippers are one of the worst teams in the NBA over the past 15 years. Chicago had nothing between '98 and 2008.

All this begs the question, why did you make this thread? Did you think before you made it? Did you think to look anything up? Are you younger than 16? If the last one is a 'yes' I apologize for taking you to task.

The Jokemaker
01-20-2011, 01:56 PM
Memphis a small market team that has shown a commitment to keep their core together and to win. If the small market teams are just there to stock the large market teams then what's the point?

Oh and you're saying Cleveland should have traded Lebron? That makes sense...

pebloemer
01-20-2011, 01:59 PM
Believe it or not Free market is the option.

snce the 30 owners are ALL millonaires and good players and wining atratc more people and rteh more people the more benefit they make they would simply pay wahts needed to have their teams competitive and being in a small or big market woujldnt mean jack because you just can simply outbid with MONEY the big market atraction.

The market woudl regulate itself.

I'd argue the opposite. Sure the 30 owners are all millionaires, but when players are also millionaires that really defeats your argument. I really don't think the market would regulate itself well at all. Sports with a free market don't tend to have multiple competitive franchises... Baseball always has a Yankee and Red Sox powerhouse. Soccer always has the same teams at the top of the premierships each year. A hard cap by contrast has far better balance between teams (ie. NHL).

No system is perfect. I personally don't mind the structure of a soft cap. There are ways for rich franchises to spend and for poor franchises to build competitors. And competent management is necessary in either case.

Rego247
01-20-2011, 02:07 PM
the op has no idea what he is talking about when he says toronto is a "small market".

as many ppl have said this is both ignorant and stupid.

op should stop make threads entirely.

ttam68
01-20-2011, 02:16 PM
Thats the dumbest **** I've ever read.

Hellcrooner
01-20-2011, 02:31 PM
I'd argue the opposite. Sure the 30 owners are all millionaires, but when players are also millionaires that really defeats your argument. I really don't think the market would regulate itself well at all. Sports with a free market don't tend to have multiple competitive franchises... Baseball always has a Yankee and Red Sox powerhouse. Soccer always has the same teams at the top of the premierships each year. A hard cap by contrast has far better balance between teams (ie. NHL).

No system is perfect. I personally don't mind the structure of a soft cap. There are ways for rich franchises to spend and for poor franchises to build competitors. And competent management is necessary in either case.

there have been only 8 different nba champions in the last 30 years and one 4 of them have 75% of the rings with one of them having 33% of the rings.
Only one fo the champions is a Poor market (Spurs)
If you check Soccers Champions league in teh same 30 year span , with no cap, no draft, just free market there have been 17 different teams wining the competition, the most a single team has is 3 championships and only ONCE did a back to back happen. Several Poor Market teams have won the competition also.

Algmuskrats
01-20-2011, 02:33 PM
I think a very, very, very tiny bit of the blame is on the small markets. Even if Cleveland traded LeBron, they wouldn't be contending right now. They might get back to respectability quicker, but they'd sill suck.

It's all about the players right now.

I think a major reason LeBron wasn't traded is because of their desperate FO begging for a ring.

Russollini
01-20-2011, 02:39 PM
Bring on the Franchise label in Basketball!

tbomlad
01-20-2011, 03:02 PM
Bring on the Franchise label in Basketball!

x10!!

GreatMustachio1
01-20-2011, 03:11 PM
toronto is definately not small market. this thread is dumb and not well thought through

Frantico
01-20-2011, 03:37 PM
Dumbest thread ever.

smith&wesson
01-20-2011, 03:39 PM
toronto is not a small market city. we just dont have any stars...

6 mill in population, toronto is the 5th largest city in north america. first being new mexico city and they dont have team so there are only 3 teams in the nba with larger markets. new york, LA , & chicago.

players just dont want to play in canada. they rather be in a more familiar city in the states then to move to another country all together.

j-mart
01-20-2011, 09:43 PM
This thread is funny...how is Toronto small market?

beasted86
01-20-2011, 09:53 PM
miami is a small market team.

Not small.

There are really only 6 "big markets" for sports in the US: New York, LA, Chicago, Dallas, Philly, Bay Area. Those are respectively the top 6 cities/metros in the US in population as well. It makes sense.

Miami is in the upper middle with Boston, Houston, and Detroit.

Flash3
01-20-2011, 10:08 PM
Not small.

There are really only 6 "big markets" for sports in the US: New York, LA, Chicago, Dallas, Philly, Bay Area. Those are respectively the top 6 cities/metros in the US in population as well. It makes sense.

Miami is in the upper middle with Boston, Houston, and Detroit.

i would think bosh is top 4 sports market no ? i thought it was

Nyk, L.A, Chi, Bos,Phi, and then the rest where you can call them small or medium to your own discretion, i like being considered a "small" market

topdog
01-20-2011, 10:22 PM
:bla:

I thought there were a lot of people in New York but all I here is the same old :bla:

Real sports fans will follow their team no matter how good or bad they are. They watch the playoffs even if their team isn't in them because guess what - they love the game and they love players who want to be great not rich.

What ever happened to greatness? Where did it go? We've got guys more concerned with shoe contracts and cameos on "The Suite Life of Zac and Cody" than with improving their game and taking their team to that next level. They always need more "help" but how often do they help themselves? Excuse "small markets" for thinking that their star players can be great. I guess we all have our flaws.

Shkelqim
01-20-2011, 11:49 PM
Teams like this should develop superstars for other teams? Whats wrong with you.

If a team wins it will fill the seats, Simple as that!

king_couttsy
01-20-2011, 11:53 PM
If you check Soccers Champions league in teh same 30 year span , with no cap, no draft, just free market there have been 17 different teams wining the competition, the most a single team has is 3 championships and only ONCE did a back to back happen. Several Poor Market teams have won the competition also.

Soccers' Champions League??

What, as in the European Champions League???

Oh, dude, just stop.

You realise that the Champions League comprises the best teams from every league in Europe, right? Those same teams that are buried under crippling debt because they continue to spend and spend - to the point that they're on the verge of going under???

Stick to something you know - because it's clearly not soccer, and it's clearly not basketball.

Hellcrooner
01-20-2011, 11:59 PM
Soccers' Champions League??

What, as in the European Champions League???

Oh, dude, just stop.

You realise that the Champions League comprises the best teams from every league in Europe, right? Those same teams that are buried under crippling debt because they continue to spend and spend - to the point that they're on the verge of going under???

Stick to something you know - because it's clearly not soccer, and it's clearly not basketball.

do you realize that USA has around the same population of all europe without russia?

Or that there are like 20 cities in the states wiht a SIMILAR population to the top 20 cities in europe?

You have to compare on the same scale not against individual countrys, spain is the size of california for example, germany is the size of texas and so on.

i could still make it locally.

in spain in the last 30 years with free market Real, Barcelona, Atletico, Real Sociedad, Bilbao, Valencia and Deportivo have won the legue thats a similar number of teams than they have won nba, in france? much mroe teams, In england? similar number, In Germany? More teams.
all of it with free market, and btw only a COUPLE of teams have debts.

masalex1205
01-21-2011, 12:09 AM
NBA needs to do something about that. There should be something to level the leverage of the big city teams...

Get rid of the Union, and let the Owners own the teams...

Literally the dumbest thing I've ever read on PSD...its going to be real easy to get rid of the player's union

masalex1205
01-21-2011, 12:10 AM
and this is literally the dumbest thread I"ve ever read on PSD

hgtiger32
01-21-2011, 12:15 AM
dumb thread

in before close

king_couttsy
01-21-2011, 12:23 AM
do you realize that USA has around the same population of all europe without russia?

Or that there are like 20 cities in the states wiht a SIMILAR population to the top 20 cities in europe?

You have to compare on the same scale not against individual countrys, spain is the size of california for example, germany is the size of texas and so on.

i could still make it locally.

in spain in the last 30 years with free market Real, Barcelona, Atletico, Real Sociedad, Bilbao, Valencia and Deportivo have won the legue thats a similar number of teams than they have won nba, in france? much mroe teams, In england? similar number, In Germany? More teams.
all of it with free market, and btw only a COUPLE of teams have debts.

Only a couple of teams?

English Premier League - last 30 years.

Liverpool - 6 times
Everton - 2 times
Arsenal - 5 times
Leeds United - 1 time
Manchester United - 11 times
Blackburn Rovers - 1 time
Chelsea - 3 times.

Since the Premier League was established in 1992, you look really silly.

11 times - Man United
3 times - Arsenal
3 times - Chelsea
1 time - Blackburn Rovers

That's it.

Who's got debt??

English Premier League teams have over $5.0 billion dollars in debt. That of course is ignoring all of the La Liga teams and Serie A teams that are either in administration, are relying on wealthy supporters to tip money in each time they get further into strife.

Seriously, stop it. You've got no idea.

astrosmaniac
01-21-2011, 12:30 AM
there have been only 8 different nba champions in the last 30 years and one 4 of them have 75% of the rings with one of them having 33% of the rings.
Only one fo the champions is a Poor market (Spurs)
If you check Soccers Champions league in teh same 30 year span , with no cap, no draft, just free market there have been 17 different teams wining the competition, the most a single team has is 3 championships and only ONCE did a back to back happen. Several Poor Market teams have won the competition also.

theres a reason for that. its the same reason that theres more parody in other leagues. its cause basketball is the one sport where 1 player can completely dictate the flow of a game. no matter how good ronaldino is, or pujols is, or manning/brady/superstar QB _____ is, they dont have the same amount of influence as a jordan or a kobe or a lebron does on who wins the game. 1 guy can carry a team in basketball, no other sport can do that (MAYBE hockey, but i dont watch enough hockey to really know)

Flash3
01-21-2011, 12:39 AM
5 billion in debt lol

Hellcrooner
01-21-2011, 12:44 AM
Only a couple of teams?

English Premier League - last 30 years.

Liverpool - 6 times
Everton - 2 times
Arsenal - 5 times
Leeds United - 1 time
Manchester United - 11 times
Blackburn Rovers - 1 time
Chelsea - 3 times.

Since the Premier League was established in 1992, you look really silly.

11 times - Man United
3 times - Arsenal
3 times - Chelsea
1 time - Blackburn Rovers

That's it.

Who's got debt??

English Premier League teams have over $5.0 billion dollars in debt. That of course is ignoring all of the La Liga teams and Serie A teams that are either in administration, are relying on wealthy supporters to tip money in each time they get further into strife.

Seriously, stop it. You've got no idea.

why dont you check how many diferent french teams or germans teams have won?

why dont you also check FA CUP winners and the winers of the national cups in those countrys, ?

Hellcrooner
01-21-2011, 12:46 AM
while you are at it look at how many different teams ahve been top 4 in those leauges the last 30 years.

now tell me how many different nba teams have been in the conference finals in teh same span ( and how many times each team).


Now check Basketball in europe too btoh nationaly and internaitonaly.

then cehck handball, voleyball and every sport.

You will reallize that free market INDEED works as good or BETTER than Salarycap, Draft **** in making the leagues competitive.

Of course big cities will always haven advantage, but it also happens in americna sports too.