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kobe24>lebron23
01-14-2011, 04:01 AM
He has now played more games then the great MJ!


Black Mamba swan song? Kobe has now played more NBA games than Michael Jordan (1,259 to 1,251). My column: http://is.gd/VS2A3p


You could hear that clearly in his voice on "The Dan Patrick Show" on Tuesday, when Bryant offered a broader reminder for where Kobe, 32, is compared to guys such as Vince, 33; Tracy, 31; LeBron, 26; Monta, 25 and others at the top of his 1996 draft class (Allen Iverson, Marcus Camby, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Stephon Marbury).

"I should be nowhere near playing at the level I'm playing at right now, 15 years into the league, the draft class that I came in," Bryant said. "I'm still running with these young pups."

FYI this next quote is a posters opinion not mine...
its amazing that Kobe is still playing at an incredibly high level,despite 15 years in the league. Look at the 96 draft class:

A.I.-injured in Turkey, Marcus Camby-never was an all star and is a role player now,Ray Allen-still a good shooter but def. past his scoring prime,Marbury-China,Shareef-retired,walker-d league,peja-barely plays in NO,Steve Nash-still balling but not the same leader he was,Jermaine O'neal-boston bench player who is injured. Even his other peers-Tmac and Vince are past their prime and all star years. Tim is on the recline and is nowhere near what he used to be. Paul Pierce still scores but past his prime. And the current all stars-Durant,the queen,monta(a scorer not all star),wade,melo,and other peers are trying to catch his greatness. And he's still hanging with the young pups.

We need to appreciate however long he has left,because it will be a long time before a new player can even be worth comparing him with.

Only problem now is people will say Jordan did this and that quicker then Kobe if and when Kobe takes over some of jordans records... By the way I stole these quotes from a poster on lakersground.net I don't own them!

Hustlenomics
01-14-2011, 04:06 AM
lol ok he played more games than MJ and MJ has thousands of more points than Kobe

kobe24>lebron23
01-14-2011, 04:11 AM
lol ok he played more games than MJ and MJ has thousands of more points than Kobe

Kobe came off the bench his first two years playing like 15-20 minutes a game so technically those shouldn't count but they do!
If not I think the point total would be really really close!

Hustlenomics
01-14-2011, 04:13 AM
jordan retired during his prime

kblo247
01-14-2011, 04:14 AM
Before you two needlessly and childishly take this into a flame war like you both are capable of.

Kobe has played more playoff games and playoff minutes than MJ, but not more regular season games or regular season minutes

Bryant: RS - 1,061 G (38,687 MP) | PO - 198 G (7,811 MP)
Jordan: RS - 1,072 G (41,010 MP) | PO - 179 G (7,474 MP)

RS - 11 G (- 2,323 MP) | PO - 19 G (+ 337 MP)

Hustlenomics
01-14-2011, 04:17 AM
Before you two needlessly and childishly take this into a flame war like you both are capable of.

Kobe has played more playoff games and playoff minutes than MJ, but not more regular season games or regular season minutes

Bryant: RS - 1,061 G (38,687 MP) | PO - 198 G (7,811 MP)
Jordan: RS - 1,072 G (41,010 MP) | PO - 179 G (7,474 MP)

RS - 11 G (- 2,323 MP) | PO - 19 G (+ 337 MP)

I'm not going into a flame war Jordan is a better player than Kobe and always will be nothing more needs to be said

Sadds The Gr8
01-14-2011, 04:21 AM
I'm not going into a flame war Jordan is a better player than Kobe and always will be nothing more needs to be said

+1

MJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe

kobe24>lebron23
01-14-2011, 04:22 AM
I'm not going into a flame war Jordan is a better player than Kobe and always will be nothing more needs to be said

Not getting into it either especially with a Celtic fan...

kobe24>lebron23
01-14-2011, 04:25 AM
+1

MJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe

Really might as well close this thread since it clearly wasn't what I thought it would be instead we are having an argument about arguably the 2 best players of all-time!

What u just did is dumb
Jordan>>>>>>>>>>>>Kobe
Come on man or like Bynum said
Are you serious???

Yes Jordan is better but it's more like
Jordan>Kobe

kobe24>lebron23
01-14-2011, 04:29 AM
I Made this thread so people would realize how great Kobe Bryant has actually been for so long and to appreciate him cuz players like him r hard to find even in today's NBA seriously just enjoy Kobe he still has a story to be written sure some will say he will never be better then Jordan but what if he wins 6,7, or maby even 8 championships will ur opinion still be the same?? Let's stop comparing for now and just enjoy Kobe, Cuz players like him you can't find anymore!

D1JM
01-14-2011, 04:30 AM
Not getting into it either especially with a bulls fan...

Hustlenomics a bulls fan? Yea right :no:

Antipod
01-14-2011, 04:30 AM
LAL haters will enjoy this, taking a swipe at Kobe and saying that MJ is a GOD compared to Kobe, who is just "mortal" )

i`ll just write - congrats to Kobe :)

210Don
01-14-2011, 04:31 AM
who will be the next kobe???? is he in the league today??

kobe24>lebron23
01-14-2011, 04:33 AM
LAL haters will enjoy this, taking a swipe at Kobe and saying that MJ is a GOD compared to Kobe, who is just "mortal" )

i`ll just write - congrats to Kobe :)

Thanks you deserve props for this u couldn't have said anything better!

kobe24>lebron23
01-14-2011, 04:34 AM
Goodnight psd I will contribute again tmrw and once again congrats Kobe

MackShock
01-14-2011, 04:39 AM
kobes still the best closer in the league..gotta give him props cuz hes back to back. well see when he decides to retire. then we can compare.

D1JM
01-14-2011, 04:41 AM
I Made this thread so people would realize how great Kobe Bryant has actually been for so long and to appreciate him cuz players like him r hard to find even in today's NBA seriously just enjoy Kobe he still has a story to be written sure some will say he will never be better then Jordan but what if he wins 6,7, or maby even 8 championships will ur opinion still be the same?? Let's stop comparing for now and just enjoy Kobe, Cuz players like him you can't find anymore!

Then you shouldn't mention MJ. You were bragging how Kobe had more games than MJ, like it was a milestone. Parish is the milestone, not MJ. There's like 20 other guys that had more games than MJ. You should be happy Kobe has had a relative healthy career, instead of comparing it to he "has played more games than MJ."

CHANGO
01-14-2011, 04:50 AM
LMAO, you open a post about Kobe Bryant, speaking **** of other players in the general forum of the NBA, and pretend that Haters don't come to hate? What you want? That they say, waooo, Kobe is a great player man, he has played more games than the GOAT. In the Lakers forum would be better.

Chronz
01-14-2011, 04:52 AM
Kobes a rare breed but Nash hasnt suffered any real setbacks, it wouldve been more relevant to point out he didnt play much early in his career. Tmac suffered several career altering injuries, I doubt he would have held up as long as Kobe but hed still be a star if not for them. Camby is as good as hes always been atleast if your comparing Kobe now to Kobe 5 years ago. AI was small and speed reliant, its true he never worked on his shooting to stay in the league but he wasnt going to remain a star no matter what he did. Just saying

Congrats to Kobe tho

JiffyMix88
01-14-2011, 04:52 AM
Its almost like you wanted to start something though. Why would you post Kobe plays more games than MJ? Kobe also played more games than Nick Van Exel....... I would be more impressed had Kobe had the same or more accomplishments then MJ in this amount of games, so to me this is a pointless thread.

JiffyMix88
01-14-2011, 04:55 AM
Kobes a rare breed but Nash hasnt suffered any real setbacks, it wouldve been more relevant to point out he didnt play much early in his career. Tmac suffered several career altering injuries, I doubt he would have held up as long as Kobe but hed still be a star if not for them. Camby is as good as hes always been atleast if your comparing Kobe now to Kobe 5 years ago. AI was small and speed reliant, its true he never worked on his shooting to stay in the league but he wasnt going to remain a star no matter what he did. Just saying

Congrats to Kobe tho

ur joking right?

Nash has been known to have a bad back not to mention all the injuries he has incountered on the suns alone....

jasonbird
01-14-2011, 06:59 AM
lol ok he played more games than MJ and MJ has thousands of more points than Kobe



THats the truth...

Think about this:
When he quit the nba,he was afraid of other nba players get more points than him,he play in wizard again...

lol

The Final Boss
01-14-2011, 07:29 AM
jordan retired during his prime

His ego also lead to the murder of his father, yet people fail to mention that.

Bulls_fan90
01-14-2011, 08:29 AM
His ego also lead to the murder of his father, yet people fail to mention that.

Do you really wanna go there?

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33729 ;)

stawka
01-14-2011, 09:06 AM
His ego also lead to the murder of his father, yet people fail to mention that.

Not trying to be a smartass, I'm actually trying to ask a legit question - but how was his ego the cause of his fathers death? I always thought it was coz the mob wanted his father dead so Jordan would either retire or lose the plot and not perform as well as usual - leading the Bulls to early Playoff exits?

Statik1
01-14-2011, 09:06 AM
jordan retired during his prime

And so did the Bulls Franchise

kobe24>lebron23
01-14-2011, 11:06 AM
You guys need to calm down damn like I said I posted this thread since Kobe is always compared to jordan but I made this so people would understand that Kobe was our Jordan for the 2000's... I mean all these games played and still at an elite level! Wow people r a joke getting at me lol especially u heat fans u get on alot of peoples nerves I'm sure I do too but I mean damn it can't be a Kobe thread that praises his durability but it always has to revolve around lebron(saying this belongs in the lakers forum lol well then every lebron thread needs to be in the heat forum as well) seriously u guys r annoying all I wanted was for u people to say something about kobes durability but instead I'm getting flaimed...

handle
01-14-2011, 11:12 AM
lol ok he played more games than MJ and MJ has thousands of more points than Kobe

Spoken like somebody who has no real knowledge of the game. Embarrassing.

ManRam
01-14-2011, 11:16 AM
Why is this a thread?

More games than MJ is not a great accomplishment. 67 players have done it.

We get that you want to compare Kobe to MJ...but let's not use game played as a means to do so. MJ started off after three years of college (much more wear and tear those three years than Kobe's first three years in the NBA), and missed 2 years of his prime.

It is impressive that he out lasted his class by so long. He's done a great job of preserving his legs, by basically changing up his whole style of play...whereas T-Mac, AI etc. were all far too reckless of players. Major props to him in that regard. He is a warrior.

John Walls Era
01-14-2011, 11:20 AM
Really might as well close this thread since it clearly wasn't what I thought it would be instead we are having an argument about arguably the 2 best players of all-time!

What u just did is dumb
Jordan>>>>>>>>>>>>Kobe
Come on man or like Bynum said
Are you serious???

Yes Jordan is better but it's more like
Jordan>Kobe

I don't know if Kobe is even top 5.

SteBO
01-14-2011, 11:24 AM
I don't know if Kobe is even top 5.

You're kidding, right?

MackShock
01-14-2011, 11:24 AM
jordan retired during his prime


And so did the Bulls Franchise

HAHAHA Tell the truth!

ewing
01-14-2011, 11:28 AM
I Made this thread so people would realize how great Kobe Bryant has actually been for so long and to appreciate him cuz players like him r hard to find even in today's NBA seriously just enjoy Kobe he still has a story to be written sure some will say he will never be better then Jordan but what if he wins 6,7, or maby even 8 championships will ur opinion still be the same?? Let's stop comparing for now and just enjoy Kobe, Cuz players like him you can't find anymore!


My opinion will be the same so just take your own advice. It sounds like you grew up with Kobe being your fav player. Thats a good place to be. He is one of the greatest to ever play. Now I dont care how many chips he wins I still think in each players prime Micheal was a better player but that doesn't stop me from enjoying 15 and counting great years from Kobe and a almost never think about who is better then or not better then that retired years and years ago

Teeboy1487
01-14-2011, 11:30 AM
The op clearly had the intention of giving credit to Kobe's longevity as a top player in the league compared to his piers. I did not see him say Kobe was better than Jordan. Jordan is the GOAT. The op was clearly using Jordan's games played as a precedent that was set by the GOAT.

ManRam
01-14-2011, 11:32 AM
I don't know if Kobe is even top 5.

I agree. By the end of his career, he may be, but not now. I know Laker fans will get upset about this, but if Kobe stayed where he was drafted, and didn't win those first three rings, I don't even know if we'd be talking about a top 15-20 player here. There was really only a TINY margin of time where he was the clear best player in the NBA...and I mean tiny. He had Shaq, Duncan, KG, AI, and LeBron all competing with him. When Jordan played, there was no question who was the best...for a long period of time.

And we aren't even getting into the numbers...

ManRam
01-14-2011, 11:37 AM
The op clearly had the intention of giving credit to Kobe's longevity as a top player in the league compared to his piers. I did not see him say Kobe was better than Jordan. Jordan is the GOAT. The op was clearly using Jordan's games played as a precedent that was set by the GOAT.

But if you are trying to make that point, you don't use Jordan. Today, comparing GAMES played to MJ is futile. Today's stars rarely went to college, or did so for a year. MJ went for three, and missed 2 years. Comparing him to the GOAT in games played doesn't show really anything at all.

Comparing games played between him and his draft class, or guys drafted slightly before or after him, is much more telling. It's impressive when you look at him compared to T-Mac or AI...not as much so when you compare him to MJ.

magichatnumber9
01-14-2011, 11:43 AM
Shouldn't we really be congratulating Jordan. He retired twice in this time frame. Congratulations Michael Jordan you are the greatest of all time.

Teeboy1487
01-14-2011, 12:02 PM
But if you are trying to make that point, you don't use Jordan. Today, comparing GAMES played to MJ is futile. Today's stars rarely went to college, or did so for a year. MJ went for three, and missed 2 years. Comparing him to the GOAT in games played doesn't show really anything at all.

Comparing games played between him and his draft class, or guys drafted slightly before or after him, is much more telling. It's impressive when you look at him compared to T-Mac or AI...not as much so when you compare him to MJ.

Just to be clear, I don't agree with this comparison either. I was just clarifying to some posters what the intention of this thread was since some of them thought the op was saying Kobe is better than Jordan. I'm not crazy. Kobe is not near Jordan and will never catch him. No one will imo. It goes without saying for me.

I agree with you. The point would have got across alot more effectively if the op only compared Kobe to his piers in the 96 draft or Vince Carter, Tmac, etc....

Besides, Jordan would have played alot more games if he did not retire twice in his prime so I do think that is what makes this point (in terms of games played between Kobe and Jordan) even more futile as you say.

RaiderLakersA's
01-14-2011, 12:14 PM
Mention Kobe and Jordan in the same sentence? You just knew this thread was doomed from the start. LOL

AIMelo=KillaDUO
01-14-2011, 12:26 PM
I'm not going into a flame war Jordan is a better player than Kobe and always will be nothing more needs to be said

thank u. :D

Avenged
01-14-2011, 12:28 PM
Some people are just so sensitive when it comes to Kobe, and I'm not talking about Lakers fans.

Anyways, this is nothing to brag about to begin with but congrats I guess.

CHANGO
01-14-2011, 12:33 PM
You guys need to calm down damn like I said I posted this thread since Kobe is always compared to jordan but I made this so people would understand that Kobe was our Jordan for the 2000's... I mean all these games played and still at an elite level! Wow people r a joke getting at me lol especially u heat fans u get on alot of peoples nerves I'm sure I do too but I mean damn it can't be a Kobe thread that praises his durability but it always has to revolve around lebron(saying this belongs in the lakers forum lol well then every lebron thread needs to be in the heat forum as well) seriously u guys r annoying all I wanted was for u people to say something about kobes durability but instead I'm getting flaimed...

LMAO @ you...

Of course, we will praise Kobe :clap:! Congrats Kobe!!

But if you come to write this (or paste it from another person, is the same):


And the current all stars-Durant,the queen,monta(a scorer not all star),wade,melo,and other peers are trying to catch his greatness. And he's still hanging with the young pups.

Insulting other players and fans from other teams.

1) This is not a great achievement to put in the general forum like when Kobe became the ninth leading scorer in NBA history.

2) To my knowledge, most of the post of Lebron James are created by other fans that aren't Heat fans. Mostly, Haters. And nobody in this topic has been mentioned Lebron, just you in the first post, and you back on this other post.

3) I don't answer this because...

kurivaimu
01-14-2011, 12:37 PM
I think that we should put behind the epic battle of who's better: Jordan or Kobe. Everyone has their own point of view and mine is that Jordan was better.

But, we really need to give props to Kobe. It's pretty amazing when you look at the 96 draft class and see that basically Kobe is the only one still being at an elite level. Others have faded, faded hard. Kobe's tremendous hunger and motivation as lead to the fact that Kobe is elite after all these years. He's smart, he knew that his athleticism would regress in time and he altered his game: post moves, consistant jumper, signature moves etc; while others just stud put and didnt evolve at all. Looking at Vince and TMac for example, all stars once with huge athleticism but now in their early 30s can't really crack the top 30 of nba players.
Congratz kobe. you own.

nygiants242
01-14-2011, 12:37 PM
Congrats Kobe!

FadeAwayLikeMJ
01-14-2011, 12:40 PM
who will be the next kobe???? is he in the league today??


oh boy

cue the Derrick Rose fanboys :D

beasted86
01-14-2011, 12:45 PM
He has now played more games then the great MJ!


Black Mamba swan song? Kobe has now played more NBA games than Michael Jordan (1,259 to 1,251). My column: http://is.gd/VS2A3p


You could hear that clearly in his voice on "The Dan Patrick Show" on Tuesday, when Bryant offered a broader reminder for where Kobe, 32, is compared to guys such as Vince, 33; Tracy, 31; LeBron, 26; Monta, 25 and others at the top of his 1996 draft class (Allen Iverson, Marcus Camby, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Stephon Marbury).

"I should be nowhere near playing at the level I'm playing at right now, 15 years into the league, the draft class that I came in," Bryant said. "I'm still running with these young pups."

FYI this next quote is a posters opinion not mine...
its amazing that Kobe is still playing at an incredibly high level,despite 15 years in the league. Look at the 96 draft class:

A.I.-injured in Turkey, Marcus Camby-never was an all star and is a role player now,Ray Allen-still a good shooter but def. past his scoring prime,Marbury-China,Shareef-retired,walker-d league,peja-barely plays in NO,Steve Nash-still balling but not the same leader he was,Jermaine O'neal-boston bench player who is injured. Even his other peers-Tmac and Vince are past their prime and all star years. Tim is on the recline and is nowhere near what he used to be. Paul Pierce still scores but past his prime. And the current all stars-Durant,the queen,monta(a scorer not all star),wade,melo,and other peers are trying to catch his greatness. And he's still hanging with the young pups.

We need to appreciate however long he has left,because it will be a long time before a new player can even be worth comparing him with.

Only problem now is people will say Jordan did this and that quicker then Kobe if and when Kobe takes over some of jordans records... By the way I stole these quotes from a poster on lakersground.net I don't own them!

Is anyone else put off by how fan boyish this entire post sounds? Nevermind what the other guy posted, because you reposted it means you agree with it.

OP, if you are 16 or under, then excuse my comment.

kobe24>lebron23
01-14-2011, 12:50 PM
I don't know if Kobe is even top 5.

Maybe not now(even though u can argue he is) but when its all said and done he'll be number 2 who knows maybe 1 depending on how much more winning he does

CHANGO
01-14-2011, 12:51 PM
Lmao

nickdymez
01-14-2011, 12:51 PM
I don't know if Kobe is even top 5.

hahahahahahahhahahahahhahahahaha

:cry::facepalm::puke::puke:

Chronz
01-14-2011, 12:56 PM
ur joking right?

Nash has been known to have a bad back not to mention all the injuries he has incountered on the suns alone....

talking about his level of play, he hasnt slipped certainly not to the point where you can say anything negative about his performance at such an advanced age.

Still his injury history and overall workload is MILD compared to guys like Tmac, Roy, Jermaine so dont even go there girl friend

Chronz
01-14-2011, 01:00 PM
Maybe not now(even though u can argue he is) but when its all said and done he'll be number 2 who knows maybe 1 depending on how much more winning he does

lmfao not even close

showtym24
01-14-2011, 01:02 PM
lol ok he played more games than MJ and MJ has thousands of more points than Kobe

MJ has still played 3000 more minutes.

Klivlend
01-14-2011, 01:09 PM
Maybe not now(even though u can argue he is) but when its all said and done he'll be number 2 who knows maybe 1 depending on how much more winning he does

You have got to be effing kidding me. This is such horse poop.

sp1derm00
01-14-2011, 01:37 PM
I doubt Kobe will ever be considered #1 . His knee is giving him problems and he's come out saying he has very little cartilage left in it. His fingers on his shooting hand are messed up.

The only way I could have seen Kobe coming out as #1 is an improbable 4-5 championships in a row at a very high level of play by Kobe. That's including the 2 in a row he has already. If he really does get 2-3 more, then we can have the conversation about Kobe vs MJ and actually have a legit claim. If Kobe does happen to get 2-3 more titles, you have to recognize that he would have been to the Finals 9 times out of the 16 years he would have been in the league and won 7 of them. That would be an AMAZING feat. I am completely speculating at this point.

People can compare MJ and Kobe because they are very similar players, play the same position, and are winners. Kobe doesn't have a legitimate claim to be GOAT at this point though.

tdunk21
01-14-2011, 02:04 PM
:sleep:

tdunk21
01-14-2011, 02:06 PM
OP just embarassing himself with pointless replies and wishful thinking

Sadds The Gr8
01-14-2011, 02:14 PM
Maybe not now(even though u can argue he is) but when its all said and done he'll be number 2 who knows maybe 1 depending on how much more winning he does

:facepalm:

smith&wesson
01-14-2011, 02:29 PM
kobe is the closest thing to jordan you all are going to see for a very long time. enjoy the player while he still lasts. hopefully in 10 years lebron is up there too and he is still playing at a high level. its sad too see what came about some of the great players in kobes draft class, carter, tmac, iverson they were great, they just didnt last and didnt reach any kind of acomplishments in terms of ships

MaHaRaJaH
01-14-2011, 02:32 PM
Steroids, gotta be that fire in them 'roids.

Infamous916
01-14-2011, 02:34 PM
Michael > Everybody else

But if anybody were to come close to MJ it would be Kobe. I would say Bill Russel but he played a completely different position & in a way different time.

Klivlend
01-14-2011, 02:42 PM
Looking at the numbers, it's really not that close.

MJ
http://www.nba.com/history/players/jordan_stats.html

Kobe
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/career_stats.html

magichatnumber9
01-14-2011, 02:46 PM
Rebounds, seriously

TO to the CHI
01-14-2011, 02:52 PM
I am a little miffled by the people who seem to think that Kobe is a lock for the top-5 of all time. It isn't worth spending much time on any contention about top-2, as he almost certainly will never get there. But which of MJ, Wilt, Russell, Bird or Magic does Kobe surpass? And that is just a quick list. There are others who could be viewed as top-5 as well. I think Kobe has made it into the lower part of the top-10 (still super impressive btw), but don't see how you could go much higher than that.

OP, look at your username, your other posts and the opener to this thread and ask yourself if you are really surprised about the flames. Seriously.

Da Knicks
01-14-2011, 02:55 PM
Kobe might finish as the 6th best player...

ThunderZubb
01-14-2011, 02:59 PM
vince carter was in the 98 draft class not the 96 draft class as kobe and tracy macgrady was in the 97 draft class if u guys want to be correct.

TO to the CHI
01-14-2011, 03:04 PM
vince carter was in the 98 draft class not the 96 draft class as kobe and tracy macgrady was in the 97 draft class if u guys want to be correct.

You missed the point. The point was they are purportedly contemporaries and peers of his not draft mates.

Frezhnitz
01-14-2011, 03:15 PM
Its true!

Frezhnitz
01-14-2011, 03:19 PM
Looking at the numbers, it's really not that close.

MJ
http://www.nba.com/history/players/jordan_stats.html

Kobe
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/career_stats.html

This thread has nothing to do with whos greater.

tangent12
01-14-2011, 03:20 PM
Regardless of who's done this or that quicker, Kobe is still a living legend.

Guy's a winner, he plays and leads like one. And aside from all his personal accomplishments, his number of rings don't lie. It's not about who did what in the shortest amount of time, this is not a track and field competition, at the end of the day when you look at both you'll realize they both share the characteristics and accomplishments of NBA legends.

And this is coming from a Bulls fan but respect is given where respect is earned.

NBAfan4life
01-14-2011, 03:40 PM
I agree. By the end of his career, he may be, but not now. I know Laker fans will get upset about this, but if Kobe stayed where he was drafted, and didn't win those first three rings, I don't even know if we'd be talking about a top 15-20 player here. There was really only a TINY margin of time where he was the clear best player in the NBA...and I mean tiny. He had Shaq, Duncan, KG, AI, and LeBron all competing with him. When Jordan played, there was no question who was the best...for a long period of time.

And we aren't even getting into the numbers...

Manram I like your posts but

That is a totally invalid argument. The same could be said for a lot of people. If Tim Duncan was not drafted by the Spurs would he still have his rings? A lot of people rate him higher than KG which he deserves for winning more.

Point being you cant hold it against someone for the team they play for. He is still number 9 all time for scoring. One of only three guards to make it that high. He is a 5 time champion. If he was drafted somewhere else with his work ethic who knows how many other individual accolades he would have. More scoring titles ect.

Also who knows if his body would of held up for a much higher workload. I can say with a straight face that he is a top ten player all time.

Rose-For-Prez
01-14-2011, 03:42 PM
Wow these comments made me smile.. its funny to see how alot of the bulls fans are congratulation KOBE and alot of the other teams fans are talking all kinds of smack and making it a KOBE JORDAN debate.

From a Bulls Fan and a Jordan fan congrats Kobe on a terrific career so far this guy is a terrific player and most teams would still kill to have him play SG for them I know I would take him over BOGANS LOL.

KOBE is clearly much better then most of you are making him sound. and no still not a lakers fan :-)

TO to the CHI
01-14-2011, 03:43 PM
I can say with a straight face that he is a top ten player all time.

I can't imagine very many people would disagree with this. I really really dislike Kobe and the Lakers but definitely view this as being true. It is just a matter of how high into the top-10 that is in question.

NBAfan4life
01-14-2011, 03:51 PM
I can't imagine very many people would disagree with this. I really really dislike Kobe and the Lakers but definitely view this as being true. It is just a matter of how high into the top-10 that is in question.

My comment was directed at ManRam who said if he did not play with Shaq early in his career would we be talking about him being in the 15 to 20 all time.

Not everyone considers him top ten all time. I do even if he suffered a career ending injury in his next game.

BrahCake954
01-14-2011, 03:56 PM
Kobe came off the bench his first two years playing like 15-20 minutes a game so technically those shouldn't count but they do!
If not I think the point total would be really really close!

lmaooo. wow u are truly clueless :facepalm: biggest dick rider on the net

TO to the CHI
01-14-2011, 03:58 PM
My comment was directed at ManRam who said if he did not play with Shaq early in his career would we be talking about him being in the 15 to 20 all time.

Not everyone considers him top ten all time. I do even if he suffered a career ending injury in his next game.

I understood the context of your comment. Manram's hypothetical is just that -- a hypothetical. It is not the case and we can only judge Kobe on the career he has had. If someone wants to argue it is not top-10, they can do that, but it is a pretty tough argument to make (and almost certainly requires putting O'Neal ahead of him and speculating that LeBron surpasses him as well). To me, you are spot on that if his career ends tomorrow he is top-10 of all time as it currently stands.

Supa
01-14-2011, 04:30 PM
There is another similarity between Kobe and MJ: their durability.

Jordan played until he was 40, and still shown some effectiveness.

Kobe: there were lots of doubts because of his knee problem and his preseaon performance. But once the season started, those doubts went away.

The man just scored 17pt in less than 6 min during the 4th quarter; amazingly he is still playing at top level with all these mileages.

---

ManRam
01-14-2011, 04:47 PM
Manram I like your posts but

That is a totally invalid argument. The same could be said for a lot of people. If Tim Duncan was not drafted by the Spurs would he still have his rings? A lot of people rate him higher than KG which he deserves for winning more.

Point being you cant hold it against someone for the team they play for. He is still number 9 all time for scoring. One of only three guards to make it that high. He is a 5 time champion. If he was drafted somewhere else with his work ethic who knows how many other individual accolades he would have. More scoring titles ect.

Also who knows if his body would of held up for a much higher workload. I can say with a straight face that he is a top ten player all time.

My point is, if you take rings out of the equation (there isn't a good reason to, but a lot of people completely over value winning rings)...his numbers don't suggest he a top 5 player. Also, the level of time he was the obvious and clear best player in the league doesn't suggest he's a top 5 player. Jordan was head and shoulders above the league for most of his career...Kobe can't say the same. He had for a 2-3 year period in my opinion.

That's what I was getting at. Rings DO matter, but people use them as the be-all end-all, and they aren't. He's top 10 already in my books, with room to grow...but anything ahead of that is jumping to conclusions, and probably based on being caught in the moment.


EDIT: I cut this off. I don't want to start a ****-storm ;)


Oh, and for the sake of it, TO to the CHI, I do think Shaq is ahead of him, and I do think LeBron will eventually as well.

Hustlenomics
01-14-2011, 05:33 PM
His ego also lead to the murder of his father, yet people fail to mention that.
well actually his father ..nvm


Spoken like somebody who has no real knowledge of the game. Embarrassing.

wtf? what i said FACT ..your response is just plain stupid

handle
01-14-2011, 05:51 PM
well actually his father ..nvm



wtf? what i said FACT ..your response is just plain stupid

Go ahead and compound your stupidity.

JordansBulls
01-14-2011, 05:58 PM
My point is, if you take rings out of the equation (there isn't a good reason to, but a lot of people completely over value winning rings)...his numbers don't suggest he a top 5 player. Also, the level of time he was the obvious and clear best player in the league doesn't suggest he's a top 5 player. Jordan was head and shoulders above the league for most of his career...Kobe can't say the same. He had for a 2-3 year period in my opinion.

That's what I was getting at. Rings DO matter, but people use them as the be-all end-all, and they aren't. He's top 10 already in my books, with room to grow...but anything ahead of that is jumping to conclusions, and probably based on being caught in the moment.


EDIT: I cut this off. I don't want to start a ****-storm ;)


Oh, and for the sake of it, TO to the CHI, I do think Shaq is ahead of him, and I do think LeBron will eventually as well.


Exactly!! Also people think it is just rings. If that were the case Gretzky in Hockey nor Ruth in Baseball would be considered the GOAT's of their sports.

Gretzky won 4 titles in Hockey, but Henri Richard won 11 Stanley Cups as a member of the Montreal Canadiens between 1956 and 1973: 1955-56, 1956-57, 1957-58, 1958-59, 1959-60, 1964-65, 1965-66, 1967-68, 1968-69, 1970-71, 1972-73 but he is not considered the GOAT over Gretzky.

Babe Ruth won 7 titles - 1915, 1916, and 1918 with the Boston Red Sox. In 1923, 1927, 1928, and 1932 with the New York Yankees, but Yogi Berra has won the most World Series with 10, all with the New York Yankees.


It goes to show that you have to have multiple rings, but you have to have the stats and dominance over your peers as well as an individual.

Hellcrooner
01-14-2011, 06:06 PM
mmm.......they killed his father so bulls woudl lose in the playoffs?
I think ive never heard something more stupid.

If some Mafia wanted him to lose in the playoffs they just woudl have needed to either briebe refs.
Or just send someone to break his wirsts, or heels.

As far as i know his father was killed because of gamblikng debts.

Hellcrooner
01-14-2011, 06:09 PM
Exactly!! Also people think it is just rings. If that were the case Gretzky in Hockey nor Ruth in Baseball would be considered the GOAT's of their sports.

Gretzky won 4 titles in Hockey, but Henri Richard won 11 Stanley Cups as a member of the Montreal Canadiens between 1956 and 1973: 1955-56, 1956-57, 1957-58, 1958-59, 1959-60, 1964-65, 1965-66, 1967-68, 1968-69, 1970-71, 1972-73 but he is not considered the GOAT over Gretzky.

Babe Ruth won 7 titles - 1915, 1916, and 1918 with the Boston Red Sox. In 1923, 1927, 1928, and 1932 with the New York Yankees, but Yogi Berra has won the most World Series with 10, all with the New York Yankees.


It goes to show that you have to have multiple rings, but you have to have the stats and dominance over your peers as well as an individual.

yeah , because not being able to win a ring or take down his peers in a series untill

1 of them was infected with aids, his long time mate was retired and his other important mate had never recovered of the injury on the 4-0 pistons sweep finals.

2 the other could barely wake up from bed becaus eof his back, his whitey friendey was in simnilar or worsht health and the chief was already ready to be called matuzalem

3 the other one was completely worn out in a gropu of completely worn outs where they youngest one was an almost 30 years old crazy dude that liked to dress like a woman and create havoc.


impressive.

nickdymez
01-14-2011, 06:11 PM
lmfao@ someone in here saying kobe isnt even a top 20 player... hahahahhahahahahahahaahhahaha

Hawkeye15
01-14-2011, 06:27 PM
I'm not going into a flame war Jordan is a better player than Kobe and always will be nothing more needs to be said

yep

Bruno
01-14-2011, 06:29 PM
I agree. By the end of his career, he may be, but not now. I know Laker fans will get upset about this, but if Kobe stayed where he was drafted, and didn't win those first three rings, I don't even know if we'd be talking about a top 15-20 player here. There was really only a TINY margin of time where he was the clear best player in the NBA...and I mean tiny. He had Shaq, Duncan, KG, AI, and LeBron all competing with him. When Jordan played, there was no question who was the best...for a long period of time.

And we aren't even getting into the numbers...

I dono ManRam, The Dream only won two titles and Finals MVPs but he cracks a lot of peoples top 10 list. Take away Bryants first three titles and he has essentially the same resume as Hakeem, minus the defensive player of the year awards (while never the defensive MVP Bryant has made 8 defensive first teams, Hakeem made six). Regardless, that's speculative, and shouldn't effect the way we view him in reality. He is a Laker, and nobody in the league has been with their team longer than Kobe has. He's loyal. If you're inclined to mention the 2007 trade requests, I'll just have to quote Kobe, "It takes pressure to create a diamond".

The emphasis shouldn't be "when/how long was Kobe the clear-cut best player in the NBA", it should be about recognizing that he has been a top three player for over a decade. The other top dogs in the league have changed throughout the decade, but Bryant has stayed in the discussion for the longest; his longevity and staying power are two of his greatest attributes, IMO.

You mention that there was only a tiny margin when Kobe was the best player in the league, mentioning greats like Shaq, Duncan, KG, and LeBron as reasons why. If I'm being totally honest here, name me one 90's era player who was better than Shaq, Duncan, KG, or LeBron. You know, I'm talkin' about guys drafted in the mid to late 80's who had their primes in the 90's. I'm not saying Jordan wouldn't be better than ^ those guys if he played in the 2000's, but if were being totally honest the players I mentioned above (the greats of the 2000's) are greater than the best players of the 90's, minus Jordan.

Ewing, Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Robinson, Drexler, Kemp, Payton, Reggie... These guys are amongst the top 50 players ever, but IMO, none of them are in the same league as a Shaq, a Duncan (arguably top 10 players ever) a KG, or a LeBrons. That should be taken into account. The only guy who could really challenge Jordan and the Bulls weakness was the size of Hakeem, but they never matched up because the Rockets weren't built well enough until Jordan mysteriously left the game. And they weren't built to last, dream was too old. Anyways, I was a kid in the 90's, I don't claim to have been there, but that's how it appears now. I welcome any rebuttal.

Hawkeye15
01-14-2011, 06:30 PM
Maybe not now(even though u can argue he is) but when its all said and done he'll be number 2 who knows maybe 1 depending on how much more winning he does

Kobe doesn't have a shot in hell of being #1

Klivlend
01-14-2011, 06:32 PM
This thread has nothing to do with whos greater.

Thanks for singling my post out, cause I was really the only poster off topic. :)

The Final Boss
01-14-2011, 06:43 PM
Not trying to be a smartass, I'm actually trying to ask a legit question - but how was his ego the cause of his fathers death? I always thought it was coz the mob wanted his father dead so Jordan would either retire or lose the plot and not perform as well as usual - leading the Bulls to early Playoff exits?

No, Michael's gambling addicition got him into debt with the wrong people in Atlantic City and he thought his popularity suggested he didn't have to pay. In the end his father paid the biggest price with his life. I read the book written by the agent in on the case.

mttwlsn16
01-14-2011, 06:43 PM
Kobe is THE man

JordansBulls
01-14-2011, 06:45 PM
I dono ManRam, The Dream only won two titles and Finals MVPs but he cracks a lot of peoples top 10 list. Take away Bryants first three titles and he has essentially the same resume as Hakeem, minus the defensive player of the year awards (while never the defensive MVP Bryant has made 8 defensive first teams, Hakeem made six). Regardless, that's speculative, and shouldn't effect the way we view him in reality. He is a Laker, and nobody in the league has been with their team longer than Kobe has. He's loyal. If you're inclined to mention the 2007 trade requests, I'll just have to quote Kobe, "It takes pressure to create a diamond".

The emphasis shouldn't be "when/how long was Kobe the clear-cut best player in the NBA", it should be about recognizing that he has been a top three player for over a decade. The other top dogs in the league have changed throughout the decade, but Bryant has stayed in the discussion for the longest; his longevity and staying power are two of his greatest attributes, IMO.

You mention that there was only a tiny margin when Kobe was the best player in the league, mentioning greats like Shaq, Duncan, KG, and LeBron as reasons why. If I'm being totally honest here, name me one 90's era player who was better than Shaq, Duncan, KG, or LeBron. You know, I'm talkin' about guys drafted in the mid to late 80's who had their primes in the 90's. I'm not saying Jordan wouldn't be better than ^ those guys if he played in the 2000's, but if were being totally honest the players I mentioned above (the greats of the 2000's) are greater than the best players of the 90's, minus Jordan.

Ewing, Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Drexler, Kemp, Payton, Reggie... These guys are amongst the top 50 players ever, but IMO, none of them are in the same league as a Shaq, a Duncan (arguably top 10 players ever) a KG, or a LeBrons. That should be taken into account. The only guy who could really challenge Jordan and the Bulls weakness was the size of Hakeem, but they never matched up because the Rockets weren't built well enough until Jordan mysteriously left the game. And they weren't built to last, dream was too old. Anyways, I was a kid in the 90's, I don't claim to have been there, but that's how it appears now. I welcome any rebuttal.

I would venture to say Hakeem was better than Lebron, KG, as was Karl Malone. Barkley has a case. Also Shaq had more of his dominance in the 90's than the 2000's. From 1993-1999 he was dominant ever year. It was from 2000-2005 this era where he was dominant. Only reason people associate him with 2000's is because his best season was then and that is when he won, but he had more dominant years in the 90's IMO.

Hawkeye15
01-14-2011, 06:47 PM
I would venture to say Hakeem was better than Lebron, KG, as was Karl Malone. Barkley has a case. Also Shaq had more of his dominance in the 90's than the 2000's. From 1993-1999 he was dominant ever year. It was from 2000-2005 this era where he was dominant. Only reason people associate him with 2000's is because his best season was then and that is when he won, but he had more dominant years in the 90's IMO.

I think if LeBron continues his dominance for the tenure of his current deal and wins a couple of rings as the lead dog on the team, he passes both Hakeem and Malone. In fact, I already think he is better than Malone

kingkobe
01-14-2011, 08:52 PM
lmaooo. wow u are truly clueless :facepalm: biggest dick rider on the net

that made me choke on some food and made me post this. I usually don't post...

Tony_Starks
01-14-2011, 09:16 PM
Kobe is the man! Im still recooperating from "Kobe is not clutch." Man the haters kill me......

NBAfan4life
01-14-2011, 09:28 PM
My personal opinion is that during Kobe's career he has played during an exceptional class of SG's and SF's. Which in turn makes his accomplishments even more impressive. IMO the SG's and SF's are tougher matchups then what Jordan faced.

I know someone will bring up hand checking and blah blah just saying.

Jordan is still GOAT by a nice margin.

OaklandsFinest
01-14-2011, 09:29 PM
Kobe is an all time great player but he is in NO WAY a top 10 player all time, let alone in the Jordan discussion. Kobe showed that with the proper supporting cast he can shine, but also showed that if he has a similar cast that a guy like McGrady or Carter had that he couldnt get himself out of the first round. He's not even the best player of his era. Yes he has had phenomenal moments, and because he played half of his career next to Shaq, and the rotation of great role players, his body didnt take the same beatings as KG, McGrady, Carter, AI, Jordan, and others. Fact is Kobe is a top 25 player I believe based on skill, and talent, and clutchness. But he showed when he didn't have the role players he would shut it down and quit on his team to prove a point. Those are the moments that stand out to me more than the 81 he hung on the Raptors. Kobe is great don't get me wrong, but not even in the discussion...

Hawkeye15
01-14-2011, 09:35 PM
Kobe is an all time great player but he is in NO WAY a top 10 player all time, let alone in the Jordan discussion. Kobe showed that with the proper supporting cast he can shine, but also showed that if he has a similar cast that a guy like McGrady or Carter had that he couldnt get himself out of the first round. He's not even the best player of his era. Yes he has had phenomenal moments, and because he played half of his career next to Shaq, and the rotation of great role players, his body didnt take the same beatings as KG, McGrady, Carter, AI, Jordan, and others. Fact is Kobe is a top 25 player I believe based on skill, and talent, and clutchness. But he showed when he didn't have the role players he would shut it down and quit on his team to prove a point. Those are the moments that stand out to me more than the 81 he hung on the Raptors. Kobe is great don't get me wrong, but not even in the discussion...

really dude? I think there are tons of ways to measure how great a player is, but I honestly don't think you can keep Kobe out of the top 12 no matter how you measure it, and he is #10 for me currently, with room to move up.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/mvp_shares_career.html

I don't think that stat is the end all be all, but its a great list that I personally like

chicago lulz
01-14-2011, 09:40 PM
congrats kobe!

OaklandsFinest
01-14-2011, 09:55 PM
really dude? I think there are tons of ways to measure how great a player is, but I honestly don't think you can keep Kobe out of the top 12 no matter how you measure it, and he is #10 for me currently, with room to move up.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/mvp_shares_career.html

I don't think that stat is the end all be all, but its a great list that I personally like

I respect your opinion, but I feel there is more than stats to show a players greatness. In fact I would say that players on that list that were lower than Kobe are greater, such as Oscar, Hakeem, David Robinson, Jerry West (THE LOGO), Julius Erving, Pistol Pete, and I think honestly Alonzo in his prime was a better player than Kobe. Kobe shows "heart" when he's got a good team around him, but he will pack it in when met with adversity when he is the only all star on the team. Not only that he quit in game 6 of the 08 NBA Finals. Don't believe me watch the game tape, in the first half he's on fire then he quit the entire second half. Top 10 greatest players DO NOT QUIT!

kblo247
01-14-2011, 09:57 PM
My point is, if you take rings out of the equation (there isn't a good reason to, but a lot of people completely over value winning rings)...his numbers don't suggest he a top 5 player. Also, the level of time he was the obvious and clear best player in the league doesn't suggest he's a top 5 player. Jordan was head and shoulders above the league for most of his career...Kobe can't say the same. He had for a 2-3 year period in my opinion.

That's what I was getting at. Rings DO matter, but people use them as the be-all end-all, and they aren't. He's top 10 already in my books, with room to grow...but anything ahead of that is jumping to conclusions, and probably based on being caught in the moment.


The problem I have with your argument is his resume'
- 9th all time scorer in league history and increasing
- Made the finals 7 out of his last 11 years
- 5 time champ
- 1 MVP
- 2 Finals MVPs
- 2 scoring titles
- 10 All defensive teams
- 12 all NBA Teams
- 3 ASG MVPs
- Slam Dunk title
- More 50pt games outside of anyone but Wilt and MJ
- Multiple 60 point games
- Multiple 40+ point games
- Gold Medal
- All time leading scorer for the Lakers
- All time leading playoff scorer for LA
- Played more seasons and minutes for the Lakers than anyone else
- Tied for the NBA record of threes in a game
- Leads LA in field goals made and attempted for his career
- 3rd all time in assists for the Lakers
- 9th all time in Laker rebounding
- 2nd all time in steals for the Lakers
- 7th all time in blocked shots for the Lakers
- Has a record number of 30+ point close out games that is only second to Jordan and Wilt.


Then you go into the peer argument
- He has won more than Shaq period and post breakup
- He has beaten Duncan handedly throughout their careers and dominated his teams more
- He has won far more than Oscar
- He has outlasted Hakeem when it comes to sheer longevity on top of winning more


I'll be the first to say that MJ is better, Russell deserves to be ahead of him, and that the Wilt / Magic/ Bird argument being ranked ahead of him can be made, but he us far from just top 10. He is more like 6th or 7th all ready based on his all time NBA ranks, Laker ranks, winning, and the roles he played on his teams.

There aren't other 2nd options who can say that they averaged 27, 5, and 5 during seasons and playoff series. There aren't other players including Magic and Bird who can say that they were the primary defender and primary facilitator on top of their scoring and closing roles on their way to multiple title wins and final appearances because their rosters didn't make them have to carry that weight.

That other argument about playing for the team who drafted him is weak since Jerry West is on record of saying it was him, not Kobe who got in the ear of the Nets GM and other ones to get him after he set the record and scored the marks for every drill at LA's draft combine at 17.

You can't even use the talent argument since you youself admit that you need talent to win, and the one thing we can all agree about with Kobe is that he wins when you give him talent unlike many others who have proven that they can't do it. We can also agree that he makes others better from Shaq to Pau to Smush to Chucky Atkins when you look at their numbers and stats when playing with him.

I get your argument but saying just plain top 10 is a cop out and selling him extremely short.

RocketPower2010
01-14-2011, 10:31 PM
Seriously can some mod stop this guy (Kobe24>LeBron23) from making Kobe is awesome or LeBron is trash threads? About 60% of all of those threads are started by this guy, seriously, enough is enough.

OaklandsFinest
01-15-2011, 01:03 AM
The problem I have with your argument is his resume'
- 9th all time scorer in league history and increasing
- Made the finals 7 out of his last 11 years
- 5 time champ
- 1 MVP
- 2 Finals MVPs
- 2 scoring titles
- 10 All defensive teams
- 12 all NBA Teams
- 3 ASG MVPs
- Slam Dunk title
- More 50pt games outside of anyone but Wilt and MJ
- Multiple 60 point games
- Multiple 40+ point games
- Gold Medal
- All time leading scorer for the Lakers
- All time leading playoff scorer for LA
- Played more seasons and minutes for the Lakers than anyone else
- Tied for the NBA record of threes in a game
- Leads LA in field goals made and attempted for his career
- 3rd all time in assists for the Lakers
- 9th all time in Laker rebounding
- 2nd all time in steals for the Lakers
- 7th all time in blocked shots for the Lakers
- Has a record number of 30+ point close out games that is only second to Jordan and Wilt.


Then you go into the peer argument
- He has won more than Shaq period and post breakup
- He has beaten Duncan handedly throughout their careers and dominated his teams more
- He has won far more than Oscar
- He has outlasted Hakeem when it comes to sheer longevity on top of winning more


I'll be the first to say that MJ is better, Russell deserves to be ahead of him, and that the Wilt / Magic/ Bird argument being ranked ahead of him can be made, but he us far from just top 10. He is more like 6th or 7th all ready based on his all time NBA ranks, Laker ranks, winning, and the roles he played on his teams.

There aren't other 2nd options who can say that they averaged 27, 5, and 5 during seasons and playoff series. There aren't other players including Magic and Bird who can say that they were the primary defender and primary facilitator on top of their scoring and closing roles on their way to multiple title wins and final appearances because their rosters didn't make them have to carry that weight.

That other argument about playing for the team who drafted him is weak since Jerry West is on record of saying it was him, not Kobe who got in the ear of the Nets GM and other ones to get him after he set the record and scored the marks for every drill at LA's draft combine at 17.

You can't even use the talent argument since you youself admit that you need talent to win, and the one thing we can all agree about with Kobe is that he wins when you give him talent unlike many others who have proven that they can't do it. We can also agree that he makes others better from Shaq to Pau to Smush to Chucky Atkins when you look at their numbers and stats when playing with him.

I get your argument but saying just plain top 10 is a cop out and selling him extremely short.


I genuinely resect the research to look up all of his accomplishments although I think some are hold little to no merit. But he is exactly like your avatar Floyd Mayweather Jr. If you look his achievements look impressive, Floyd and his undefeated record, and Kobe and his list of accomplishments, but just as Floyd's record is jaded through avoiding fighters until they are past their primes, ie De La Hoya, Judah, Mosley, and dodged Cotto for a long time, and we won't even touch Pacquiao, Berto, or Timothy Bradley. Kobe is the NBA equivalent. Not that he dodges competition, but he does the NBA equivalent which is he is a product of a very good franchise. Had he been forced to be the guy he'd have gone the way of T-Mac no doubt. I think its pretty amazing how he only wins rings witha pretty dope post scorer who creates the space for him to go one on one. Thats not even mentioning the countless other variables of no hand check, no Jordan Rules, and the whole physicality of the game changing. Put Dr. J or Pete in this era and they would kill Kobe's numbers. Shi. even put Nique in this NBA and he torches Kobe offensively. Kobe's talents are amazing its just too bad he killed probably the best Dynasty possibly since the Celtics. They could have outdone the Bulls, and as far as his comparison to Hakeem, it can't be made. Hakeem won two rings, as the center piece of his franchise, going toe to toe with the best class of Centers ever. Having to beat Ewing, Robinson, and O'neal and won 2 back to back. Not saying the Rockets weren't kinda deep, but there was no other star on those teams. Kobe is a great player so great he's top 25 all time. But there are countless reasons as to why Kobe doesnt even have an argument for top 15.

NBAfan4life
01-15-2011, 01:10 AM
I genuinely resect the research to look up all of his accomplishments although I think some are hold little to no merit. But he is exactly like your avatar Floyd Mayweather Jr. If you look his achievements look impressive, Floyd and his undefeated record, and Kobe and his list of accomplishments, but just as Floyd's record is jaded through avoiding fighters until they are past their primes, ie De La Hoya, Judah, Mosley, and dodged Cotto for a long time, and we won't even touch Pacquiao, Berto, or Timothy Bradley. Kobe is the NBA equivalent. Not that he dodges competition, but he does the NBA equivalent which is he is a product of a very good franchise. Had he been forced to be the guy he'd have gone the way of T-Mac no doubt. I think its pretty amazing how he only wins rings witha pretty dope post scorer who creates the space for him to go one on one. Thats not even mentioning the countless other variables of no hand check, no Jordan Rules, and the whole physicality of the game changing. Put Dr. J or Pete in this era and they would kill Kobe's numbers. Shi. even put Nique in this NBA and he torches Kobe offensively. Kobe's talents are amazing its just too bad he killed probably the best Dynasty possibly since the Celtics. They could have outdone the Bulls, and as far as his comparison to Hakeem, it can't be made. Hakeem won two rings, as the center piece of his franchise, going toe to toe with the best class of Centers ever. Having to beat Ewing, Robinson, and O'neal and won 2 back to back. Not saying the Rockets weren't kinda deep, but there was no other star on those teams. Kobe is a great player so great he's top 25 all time. But there are countless reasons as to why Kobe doesnt even have an argument for top 15.

First thing use a paragraph or two please.

You give Hakeem credit for going up against as you say the best class of centers ever. True or false during Kobe's career the SG's and Sf's have been better than they have been in a long time?

Also someone did some fact checking a while back on here with hand checking and it showed that FT attempts were basically the same even when you consider possessions per game.

NBAfan4life
01-15-2011, 01:20 AM
A little interesting fact I was reading today. Besides the 03-04 Pistons a championship was not won without 1 of these 11 players dating back to 1980.
Jordan
bryant
magic
duncan
shaq
bird
Olajuwon
Isiah thomas
Garnett
wade
Moses malone

OaklandsFinest
01-15-2011, 02:16 AM
First thing use a paragraph or two please.

You give Hakeem credit for going up against as you say the best class of centers ever. True or false during Kobe's career the SG's and Sf's have been better than they have been in a long time?

Also someone did some fact checking a while back on here with hand checking and it showed that FT attempts were basically the same even when you consider possessions per game.

Sorry for the lack of a proper paragraph structure in my first answer.

Though I feel like you may have a point for Kobe playing in a "golden era" of SG's and SF's, it was probably the most defensively challenged group of "superstars" ever wouldn't you agree? While in Hakeem's era, Ewing, Shaq, Robinson, Mutombo, Mourning, and the likes were just as potent on the defensive side of the ball. The likes of Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter, Allen Iverson, Ray Allen, Isiah Rider, Allan Houston were ever confused with being 2 way players. Although Kobe was a better 2 way player, there were quite a few years where he might not have been the best player at his position let alone in the league.

I can completely understand why the free throw discrepancy might not be there, but to say its not easier to score while blowing past Isiah Rider who is not allowed to put a hand on you than it is when Joe Dumars has his hand in your stomach trying to dictate which direction you can drive before you are pummeled by the Lambier, Mahorn, or McHale of that era is ridiculous. Players adjust to the rules so while he free throw numbers will be about the same, the allowed contact is not.

kobe24>lebron23
01-15-2011, 03:06 AM
lmaooo. wow u are truly clueless :facepalm: biggest dick rider on the net

Idiot I think the lebron fan boys have a say in this... And I made that statement cuz someone said Jordan retired in his prime I mean u gotta help your case u know... And I bet u wouldn't say that to my face u punk *** *****!
Srry but if I get an infraction the he does to cuz he started with the dick rider comment

kobe24>lebron23
01-15-2011, 03:40 AM
Seriously can some mod stop this guy (Kobe24>LeBron23) from making Kobe is awesome or LeBron is trash threads? About 60% of all of those threads are started by this guy, seriously, enough is enough.

Hahaha your a joke I've only made like 1 Kobe thread and 1 Bynum thread and your hating me for that lol and not once have a ever started a thread bashing lebron lol get over yourselves I kinda feel like kooe now so many people hate me

kobe24>lebron23
01-15-2011, 03:46 AM
I genuinely resect the research to look up all of his accomplishments although I think some are hold little to no merit. But he is exactly like your avatar Floyd Mayweather Jr. If you look his achievements look impressive, Floyd and his undefeated record, and Kobe and his list of accomplishments, but just as Floyd's record is jaded through avoiding fighters until they are past their primes, ie De La Hoya, Judah, Mosley, and dodged Cotto for a long time, and we won't even touch Pacquiao, Berto, or Timothy Bradley. Kobe is the NBA equivalent. Not that he dodges competition, but he does the NBA equivalent which is he is a product of a very good franchise. Had he been forced to be the guy he'd have gone the way of T-Mac no doubt. I think its pretty amazing how he only wins rings witha pretty dope post scorer who creates the space for him to go one on one. Thats not even mentioning the countless other variables of no hand check, no Jordan Rules, and the whole physicality of the game changing. Put Dr. J or Pete in this era and they would kill Kobe's numbers. Shi. even put Nique in this NBA and he torches Kobe offensively. Kobe's talents are amazing its just too bad he killed probably the best Dynasty possibly since the Celtics. They could have outdone the Bulls, and as far as his comparison to Hakeem, it can't be made. Hakeem won two rings, as the center piece of his franchise, going toe to toe with the best class of Centers ever. Having to beat Ewing, Robinson, and O'neal and won 2 back to back. Not saying the Rockets weren't kinda deep, but there was no other star on those teams. Kobe is a great player so great he's top 25 all time. But there are countless reasons as to why Kobe doesnt even have an argument for top 15.

Name me 15 players greater then Kobe...

LA_Raiders
01-15-2011, 03:49 AM
We will see haters.....

Once Kobe wins 7 rings....

LA_Raiders
01-15-2011, 03:50 AM
Name me 15 players greater then Kobe...

mmmmmm.... None...

blueplanet
01-15-2011, 04:04 AM
Yea Kobe>>>>>>>>>>>>Jordan because Jordan wasn't able to get caught with raping.

kobe24>lebron23
01-15-2011, 04:15 AM
mmmmmm.... None...

Exacty he wont be able to ñame 15 bro trust me

kobe24>lebron23
01-15-2011, 04:21 AM
Yea Kobe>>>>>>>>>>>>Jordan because Jordan wasn't able to get caught with raping.

Mods really u gotta stop allowing these kind of stupid comments... Oh and i u were kinda smart u would probaby know by now that famous people now aré getting accused of rape moré then ever... Plus do u really think kobe needs to forcé someone to get in bed with him? I think not! Grow up buddy ur clearly living in something that happened 7-8 years ago and only people who dislike kobe would say something as stupid as this!

kblo247
01-15-2011, 04:22 AM
Dear PSD posters,

The views above do not represent all Laker and/or Kobe fans. Some can actually have an opinion, back it with facts, listen to what others have to say, and then discuss matters without being childish.

We apologize for their representation of us.

Sincerely,
kblo247

NBAfan4life
01-15-2011, 04:41 AM
Sorry for the lack of a proper paragraph structure in my first answer.

Though I feel like you may have a point for Kobe playing in a "golden era" of SG's and SF's, it was probably the most defensively challenged group of "superstars" ever wouldn't you agree? While in Hakeem's era, Ewing, Shaq, Robinson, Mutombo, Mourning, and the likes were just as potent on the defensive side of the ball. The likes of Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter, Allen Iverson, Ray Allen, Isiah Rider, Allan Houston were ever confused with being 2 way players. Although Kobe was a better 2 way player, there were quite a few years where he might not have been the best player at his position let alone in the league.

I can completely understand why the free throw discrepancy might not be there, but to say its not easier to score while blowing past Isiah Rider who is not allowed to put a hand on you than it is when Joe Dumars has his hand in your stomach trying to dictate which direction you can drive before you are pummeled by the Lambier, Mahorn, or McHale of that era is ridiculous. Players adjust to the rules so while he free throw numbers will be about the same, the allowed contact is not.

Honestly it just seems like Kobe throughout his career he has faced big athletic guards and forwards. He always adds something to his game if he is not injured during the offseason.

If he doesn't win another championship before he retires I still cant justify him not being in the top ten all time.

Btw I think Kobe is declining and by the last year of his contract he will be vastly overpaid per production. His career has been stellar though and hopefully he will be able to playout his contract at a high level.

RocketPower2010
01-15-2011, 11:26 AM
It's so freaking annoying that the majority of PSD's threads are about worshipping/bashing individual players, and it's not just directed as Kobe supporters. LeBron lovers/haters, Brady, Jeter, etc. take up so much of the topics it's just freaking annoying. It seriously feel like a little girl convention of Edward vs Jacob Twilight debates. What's worse is that all this attention to individuals take away from the more important topics - the teams. The game threads gets little attention, and even when they do, it's when something about an individual player sparks up the conversation. Such a fangirl reaction.

And also, everybody opens these threads thinking that "I can outdebate anyone and make them see it my way". Well it's not going to happen. A LeBron lover will never agree with a Kobe lover, and vice versa. This will just turn into an exchange of "he's great because of this" followed by "he sucks because of this" followed by "but you overlooked this" and then "oh yea? well take this". Nobody wins anything. REALIZE THAT. After so many exchanges why can't anyone learn anything?

Rose-For-Prez
01-15-2011, 11:31 AM
Wow this thread is getting crazy lol

I dont know why people cant just give KOBE his props. he is a great player one of the greatest all time to lace up a pair of shoes.

Most of the Lakers fans is not saying he is greater then 23 just that he is great. Which is a true statement. and for the people saying that he is not top 10-20 or whatever you guys must of just started watching basketball.

But again to all the Lakers fans and to Kobe congrats Kobe is unreal he come to the bulls

how about a bogans for Kobe trade straight up??

king4day
01-15-2011, 11:34 AM
Not sure this is really news. If anything, it'll make him look bad that MJ won 6 rings in less amount of time.