PDA

View Full Version : Will Zach Randolph be overlooked his whole career?



Mishmin
01-13-2011, 01:47 PM
First off, for those who would opt to put this in the memphis thread, I'm a celtics fan and I think it's relevant discussion for everyone.

Randolph's numbers this year are unbelievable. 20 ppg, 13 rpg, and a couple assists. He's also shooting close to .500. And although his numbers are up this season, they aren't that much higher than his career average. He's really a machine in the paint.

But when the conversation comes up for great big men in the game today, you're damn sure his name doesn't come up. Does something like this happen because of a small market? Bosh was a little out of the picture up in toronto, but he was still acknowledged as one of the best big men those past few years. Does he just lack that star power? Does he need to put up a 50 point game for people to notice what he's doing?

Baller1
01-13-2011, 01:49 PM
Yes he will. He's a great player.

tangent12
01-13-2011, 01:49 PM
Average players deserve to get overlooked.

Sorry.

AddiX
01-13-2011, 01:50 PM
Zack is a beast, but I don't care what kind of stats you put up when you play defense the way he does. I've never seen a player so willingly move out of the way for defenders.

Hellcrooner
01-13-2011, 01:53 PM
Ill think high on him when

1 he gets thos points in an effective way that win GAMES

2 he plays some defense.

3 he does does numbers on a winning team.

4 he learns when to shoot and when is better to pass the ball to the open teamate.

tbone2171
01-13-2011, 02:01 PM
Average players deserve to get overlooked.

Sorry.

U mad??...that Z-bo's having as good a year as Carlos Boozer??? :speechless:

poleandreel
01-13-2011, 02:03 PM
Ill think high on him when

1 he gets thos points in an effective way that win GAMES

2 he plays some defense.

3 he does does numbers on a winning team.

4 he learns when to shoot and when is better to pass the ball to the open teamate.

This post doesnt make sense to me. He is putting up 20 13 and 50% shooting. Those are great numbers despite being on a losing team. It's not his fault the team is losing. If you put him on a winning team its not like those numbers will make them team lose. he takes 17 shots a game and makes 8-9 of them. Thats good no matter what.

Kobe shoots 42% and gets 2 assists but somehow he is the reason the lakers win?

i swear psd has some incompetent people

Aapox
01-13-2011, 02:08 PM
I think Z-Bo is a stud. I'm glad his attitude has gotten better but he still plays pretty poor defense. I'm not sure why he's always so overlooked though.

Swashcuff
01-13-2011, 02:10 PM
This post doesnt make sense to me. He is putting up 20 13 and 50% shooting. Those are great numbers despite being on a losing team. It's not his fault the team is losing. If you put him on a winning team its not like those numbers will make them team lose. he takes 17 shots a game and makes 8-9 of them. Thats good no matter what.

Kobe shoots 42% and gets 2 assists but somehow he is the reason the lakers win?

i swear psd has some incompetent people

Look at the Grizzlies play and you'd understand what he's talking about. He makes PERFECT sense.

There is a reason why Pau Gasol (with an inferior roster) could've led that Grizzlie team to multiple play-off appearances and Zach cannot and will never be able to.

You are just making yourself sound incompetent he is speaking the truth. Basic #s aren't everything.

Sadds The Gr8
01-13-2011, 02:14 PM
u mad??...that z-bo's having as good a year as carlos boozer??? :speechless:

+1

Gators123
01-13-2011, 02:16 PM
Average players deserve to get overlooked.

Sorry.

Damn, This guy bashes everybody that isn't on the Bulls.

poleandreel
01-13-2011, 02:17 PM
Look at the Grizzlies play and you'd understand what he's talking about. He makes PERFECT sense.

There is a reason why Pau Gasol (with an inferior roster) could've led that Grizzlie team to multiple play-off appearances and Zach cannot and will never be able to.

You are just making yourself sound incompetent he is speaking the truth. Basic #s aren't everything.

Not really. The reason the grizz lose is an overall lack of defense. I do watch all of the grizzlies games so I know EXACTLY what im talking about.

Pau gasol is a top 2 big man in this league. He could win more games with that laker team by himself then kobe could as well but that does not diminish kobe...it just proves how good pau is.

Randolph owns the paint on offense and he is not the main reason for their lack of defense. The perimeter players cannot stop penetration. There are plenty of players who are bad defensively but make up for it with their offense and are recognized for it.

-vince carter throughout his career
-steve nash
-Chris Paul a few years ago.

Rabdolph doesnt get any recognition

IndyRealist
01-13-2011, 02:17 PM
Because Zach has a repuation. There's a reason they called them the "jailblazers" when he was there. Also note that he's currently under investigation for funding a drug smuggling operation in Indiana.

He's a pariah that only desparate teams would consider. He has a repuation ON the court as well. Despite being a consistent 20/10 guy he's known as a black hole on offense, never giving the ball up once he has it. Whether that's still deserved or not I don't know, but the rep is there. And he still doesn't play defense. Anyone looking to give Zach some credit for his admittedly amazing numbers will be told that he's padding his stats at the cost of the team. Again, true or not, that's his rep.

sep11ie
01-13-2011, 02:21 PM
[QUOTE=Hellcrooner;16294769]Ill think high on him when

1 Becomes Spanish QUOTE]

Fixed

Gambeezy
01-13-2011, 02:25 PM
No matter what stats he posts, his reputation will precede him for the foreseeable future. I used to hate him but am now beginning to respect his game to a degree. He's playing his balls off this year.

nycericanguy
01-13-2011, 02:27 PM
This post doesnt make sense to me. He is putting up 20 13 and 50% shooting. Those are great numbers despite being on a losing team. It's not his fault the team is losing. If you put him on a winning team its not like those numbers will make them team lose. he takes 17 shots a game and makes 8-9 of them. Thats good no matter what.

Kobe shoots 42% and gets 2 assists but somehow he is the reason the lakers win?

i swear psd has some incompetent people

if it was just with MEM then I would agree, but he loses on every team he goes to. When has he ever put up good numbers on a decent team? I don't even mean a contending team, just a DECENT team that wins 45-48 games.

You just don't get the same respect when you put up good numbers on bad teams, ask David Lee, the man put up 20ppg 12rpg & 4apg but on a bad team.

Pau Gasol puts upt 18 & 10 but its so much more impressive when its leading your team to wins.

Hellcrooner
01-13-2011, 02:32 PM
This post doesnt make sense to me. He is putting up 20 13 and 50% shooting. Those are great numbers despite being on a losing team. It's not his fault the team is losing. If you put him on a winning team its not like those numbers will make them team lose. he takes 17 shots a game and makes 8-9 of them. Thats good no matter what.

Kobe shoots 42% and gets 2 assists but somehow he is the reason the lakers win?

i swear psd has some incompetent people

Lakers win because of kobe?

The day you read that on one of my posts is the day someone has to call the Asylum to get me in.

Hellcrooner
01-13-2011, 02:34 PM
[QUOTE=Hellcrooner;16294769]Ill think high on him when

1 Becomes Spanish QUOTE]

Fixed

Didnt Knew jason Kidd, Shane Battier, Tim duncan, Steve Nash, Yao Ming, Kevin durant, Blake Griffin among others i like were spaniards?

poleandreel
01-13-2011, 02:35 PM
Lakers win because of kobe?

The day you read that on one of my posts is the day someone has to call the Asylum to get me in.

lol i wasnt referring to you. Just what i usually read on these boards

Hellcrooner
01-13-2011, 02:37 PM
Bosh lead raptors to playoffs.
<Stou is leading knoics to playoffs.
Pau led mem to playoffs and is ONE of the main reasons of lakers back to backs.
Dirk lead mavs to finals.
Sheed led blazers to playoffs and was <one of the main reasons on pistons title.
Webber lead the kings almost to the finals.

And so on.

Has zach ever played a playoff game WHEN putting those kind of numbers?

John Walls Era
01-13-2011, 02:37 PM
Average players deserve to get overlooked.

Sorry.

:laugh:

Yeah he has had an avg. career imo. No playoff wins, hyped to be a guy who cares about stats more than wins.

John Walls Era
01-13-2011, 02:39 PM
TBH I don't overlook him, I just don't look at him at all. He has no impact on winning teams. A guy who will probably never even sniff the playoffs.

BenFrank
01-13-2011, 02:41 PM
If he played for the Laker's with those number's he would be all over the news.. media bias is starting to get crazy

Swashcuff
01-13-2011, 02:47 PM
Not really. The reason the grizz lose is an overall lack of defense. I do watch all of the grizzlies games so I know EXACTLY what im talking about.

Pau gasol is a top 2 big man in this league. He could win more games with that laker team by himself then kobe could as well but that does not diminish kobe...it just proves how good pau is.

Randolph owns the paint on offense and he is not the main reason for their lack of defense. The perimeter players cannot stop penetration. There are plenty of players who are bad defensively but make up for it with their offense and are recognized for it.

-vince carter throughout his career
-steve nash
-Chris Paul a few years ago.

Rabdolph doesnt get any recognition

Do you understand the meaning of IMPACT?

Do you tell me do you

Vince Carter was the starting SG on the Orlando Magic for two years and yet still they were on of the best defensive teams in the game. Why is that you ask?

DWIGHT HOWARD

Despite how bad the perimeter D is Zach Randolph HAS to do his job on the inside. Don't ever use that as an excuse because I could literally give you examples of tons of players who were considered winners not because of the #s but the IMPACT those numbers had.

Zach keeps putting up these #s everywhere he goes and has NO IMPACT whatseover. He is NOT a leader he does NOT play defense he DOES NOT score efficiently

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh2fn01cngg

tell me does that look like an effiecent scorer to you?

He is a fantastic player but he will NEVER be a winner until he learns how to be effective whilst putting up big #s because quite frankly he isn't anything more than a good scorer and a great rebounder with NO impact what.

If Zach TRIED more on the defensive end he'd be respected more but all his offense and all his rebounding will NEVER make up for his lapses on that end of the floor and thats a fact.

Scola may not be a better player hell he may not be a better defender even but damn does he try. He gives everything on that end of the floor and is respected league wide because of it.

At the time Pau was with the grizzlies he wasn't even a top 5 big man in the league so what the hell are you talking about him being a top 2. You mean to tell me he was then better than Dirk, Duncan, KG, Yao, Dwight, Amar'e, Shaq etc by that much to be considered top 2. Please.

PS The Orlando Magic have an "overall lack of D" , so does the Bucks but guess what because who's standing in the paint they are still very good defensive teams.

tangent12
01-13-2011, 02:48 PM
:laugh:

Yeah he has had an avg. career imo. No playoff wins, hyped to be a guy who cares about stats more than wins.

Fail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A13PKLR-HyY

Fail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFHhoynAgc8&feature=related

Fail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh2fn01cngg

And I don't know what the **** this is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_fPoSuINlA

Carey
01-13-2011, 02:49 PM
Sadly probably so, unless he has some real significant playoff success where he plays a leading role.

Swashcuff
01-13-2011, 02:50 PM
TBH I don't overlook him, I just don't look at him at all. He has no impact on winning teams. A guy who will probably never even sniff the playoffs.

Key word IMPACT

Jermaine O'Neal had it, KG, Duncan, Rasheed, Webber etc etc etc. What IMPACT has Zach had on any team he has been a part of.

I was a HUGE fan of this guy until I realized that he isn't doing much to get his team's the W. And NO stuffing the stat sheet doesn't count.

Swashcuff
01-13-2011, 02:52 PM
Bosh lead raptors to playoffs.
<Stou is leading knoics to playoffs.
Pau led mem to playoffs and is ONE of the main reasons of lakers back to backs.
Dirk lead mavs to finals.
Sheed led blazers to playoffs and was <one of the main reasons on pistons title.
Webber lead the kings almost to the finals.

And so on.

Has zach ever played a playoff game WHEN putting those kind of numbers?

Never.

Some of those teams in which those players played especially Bosh's Raptors and Pau's Grizz never had the kind of supporting cast Zach has with him.

Swashcuff
01-13-2011, 02:54 PM
I am a still a fan of Zach but just being a stat sheet stuffer is NOT going to gain you any respect from knowledgeable fans nor your peers you NEED to have IMPACT on the team you play for and the opposing team every game.

Phenomenonsense
01-13-2011, 02:56 PM
Damn, This guy bashes everybody that isn't on the Bulls.

llolololololooloollolol

BoognishMN
01-13-2011, 02:57 PM
Yup, empty stats. He's the same as Al Jefferson was a T-Wolf.

Antipod
01-13-2011, 02:58 PM
No winning, no recognition

John Walls Era
01-13-2011, 02:58 PM
Fail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A13PKLR-HyY

Fail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFHhoynAgc8&feature=related

Fail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh2fn01cngg

And I don't know what the **** this is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_fPoSuINlA

:laugh: the raptors one he carried the ball too.

Corey
01-13-2011, 02:59 PM
Ill think high on him when

1 he gets thos points in an effective way that win GAMES

2 he plays some defense.

3 he does does numbers on a winning team.

4 he learns when to shoot and when is better to pass the ball to the open teamate.

So by that logic, Marc Gasol is a crummy player too?

John Walls Era
01-13-2011, 03:08 PM
So by that logic, Marc Gasol is a crummy player too?

Marc does 2 and 4.

llemon
01-13-2011, 03:08 PM
Zach is a victim of a reputation that he worked hard to cultivate for most of his career.

Even with his strong play for Grizz, Memphis Mgmt isn't willing to extend his contract.

Shows that it's not all about stats.

Hawkeye15
01-13-2011, 03:09 PM
Zach is a victim of a reputation that he worked hard to cultivate for most of his career.

Even with his strong play for Grizz, Memphis Mgmt isn't willing to extend his contract.

Shows that it's not all about stats.

completely agree.

Missing56&33
01-13-2011, 03:15 PM
He's inconsistent...... doesn't have enough playoff experience......he's undersized. ......he's a lunch pail type of player that eats his lunch sometimes before the game. I can see why he's not mentioned much and gets overlooked but he does pop up on sports center every now and again.....either with a good game or a strip club incident. So happy he's not a Knick anymore I don't know what to do.

disgruntledbull
01-13-2011, 03:15 PM
randolph is also horribly inefficient for a big man

MrfadeawayJB
01-13-2011, 03:16 PM
Ok, i'll admit that Z-bo is not the best defensive player, but he is an efficient offensive player...for those that say he is a black hole on offense, that can be true at times, but when your shooting 50% from the field since when do people have a problem with that...

guess you can call kobe a black hole too if thats your reasoning. For fans who have never seen randolph play on a consistent basis, it is hard for them to grasp how amazing this guy is. He puts up double-doubles by the end of the first half. He grabs offensive and defensive rebounds at an astounding rate for his lack of athleticism.

Zach does have a crummy reputation, but i think he has shed that. You can only play as well as your team plays as a unit, so the fact that he hasnt done this in the playoffs is not entirly his fault. zach is a top 10 pf for sure, but he is not a flashy choice for this honor. If you dont belive me just watch him closley when he plays your team.

ps: for those who use the advance statistics such as win share % and stats of those sorts, all i got to say is if it wasnt for z-bo, memphis would have not even been in position to win some games this year

Swashcuff
01-13-2011, 03:18 PM
Marc does 2 and 4.

Yup. I do believe that Zach is indeed better than Marc though regardless. I know Crooner will disagree but IMO if he can can't be effective alongside Zach then one has to question how good is he really. I mean Paul Millsap played as Boozer's back up for years and had spurts that may you believe that he would be a good player if given starter minutes. Marc is yet to even show those spurts however.

Klivlend
01-13-2011, 03:19 PM
Damn, This guy bashes everybody that isn't on the Bulls.

Yap, his posts are sometimes challenging.

Swashcuff
01-13-2011, 03:27 PM
Ok, i'll admit that Z-bo is not the best defensive player, but he is an efficient offensive player...for those that say he is a black hole on offense, that can be true at times, but when your shooting 50% from the field since when do people have a problem with that...

guess you can call kobe a black hole too if thats your reasoning. For fans who have never seen randolph play on a consistent basis, it is hard for them to grasp how amazing this guy is. He puts up double-doubles by the end of the first half. He grabs offensive and defensive rebounds at an astounding rate for his lack of athleticism.

Zach does have a crummy reputation, but i think he has shed that. You can only play as well as your team plays as a unit, so the fact that he hasnt done this in the playoffs is not entirly his fault. zach is a top 10 pf for sure, but he is not a flashy choice for this honor. If you dont belive me just watch him closley when he plays your team.

ps: for those who use the advance statistics such as win share % and stats of those sorts, all i got to say is if it wasnt for z-bo, memphis would have not even been in position to win some games this year

Zach is actually pretty good in advance stats when compared to his peers he has better win shares per 48 than Blake and Lamarcus and better DWS than Blake and Love so in terms of those advanced stats he's pretty good. His problem though as said before does not show up in the stat sheet but rather when you take a look at him, it seems as if he isn't driven to be any better than what he has become. He has tons of potential but doesn't seem willing to attempt to take his game to another (perennial all star) level.

TChef02
01-13-2011, 03:41 PM
The guy is a great player and I think he was really getting some good press early in his career in Portland but then all the drug talk and issued with the whole Trailblazers team kind of put a negative spin on all of those guys. Not sure why Randolph doesn't get more coverage than he does but my guess is that since he isn't dominant when he's in games and just quietly puts up good numbers he kind of flies under the radar. He's never really been on good teams either so that could have some impact.

Hellcrooner
01-13-2011, 03:43 PM
So by that logic, Marc Gasol is a crummy player too?

hes not being asked to lead anything.

btw id love to see Marcs Numebrs with 18 shots per game.

thekmp211
01-13-2011, 03:45 PM
there's no doubt that zbo has been a straight clown for a lot of his career, but he's also been for the most part a very efficient one as well.

i'm not sure what this talk of "impact" is from people. which one of his teams featured one or two players that were clearly better than him? i can't recall one.

no one thinks he's fit to be a number one option at this point, but i think he's always been a guy that's capable of producing on a good team. he's never really had the opportunity, and part of the reason for that is his reputation as a selfish player and locker room distraction. apparently he's gotten better with all that, so who knows.

he's definitely not bad or average.

beasted86
01-13-2011, 03:48 PM
His defense is below average, and he has off the court and attitude issues throughout his career. Aside from that he's never actually led a team anywhere. In his Portland days the only times he's been on a winning team he was behind Rasheed coming off the bench.

He's never actually been a starter on a winning team. That speaks volumes.

The difference between a guy like him and Elton Brand is Elton at least played defense (and was good at it) and won in one season.

Swashcuff
01-13-2011, 03:58 PM
His defense is below average, and he has off the court and attitude issues throughout his career. Aside from that he's never actually led a team anywhere. In his Portland days the only times he's been on a winning team he was behind Rasheed coming off the bench.

He's never actually been a starter on a winning team. That speaks volumes.

The difference between a guy like him and Elton Brand is Elton at least played defense (and was good at it) and won in one season.

IMO all ZBO has to do is TRY harder on D and he'd be respected. But he doesn't even do that. Luis Scola isn't the world's best defender but he works his ***** off on that end and is recognized for it.

Mile High Champ
01-13-2011, 04:16 PM
Overlooked? Really. He is what he is, a good low post scorer who gets carried away with his own skills to often. Sometimes he thinks he is capable of being a jump shooter or even dribbling the ball and it just gets ugly. He is an awful defender and he is by no means getting overlooked. He is what he is, a one way player who is all about himself.

xbrackattackx
01-13-2011, 05:03 PM
I would love to see him on a winning team. His rebounding would help any contender and 20 pts per game wouldn't hurt either.

lilojmayo
01-13-2011, 05:21 PM
Yes. Zach has been averaging numbers better than Griffin and Love of late and no one cares. Zach just had 34 points and 17 rebounds last night and no one cares.

He plays for Grizzlies, careers go out to die there just ask my man OJ Mayo ( sits in room counts down the days he puts on a Bulls, Suns, or Knicks uniform)

thekmp211
01-13-2011, 05:28 PM
I would love to see him on a winning team. His rebounding would help any contender and 20 pts per game wouldn't hurt either.

this. im not saying zbo is the best, but the guy is a very good basketball player. he hasn't been on a team good enough to contribute to.

John Walls Era
01-13-2011, 05:28 PM
If Zbo didn't shoot jumpers he would be decent.

llemon
01-13-2011, 05:31 PM
Yes. Zach has been averaging numbers better than Griffin and Love of late and no one cares. Zach just had 34 points and 17 rebounds last night and no one cares.

He plays for Grizzlies, careers go out to die there

That statement might hold some credence if Grizz were Zach's 1st team, or if Zach didn't actually want to stay with Memphis.

Bruno
01-13-2011, 05:51 PM
Yes. The only case in which he won't be overlooked is if he is playing for a contender, or if the Grizz turn into a legit playoff team under his watch.

The guy plays no defense, and was marked as a cancer early on in his career, people don't forget until you win. Stupid, but that's just how it works.

BHF
01-13-2011, 05:52 PM
Average players deserve to get overlooked.

Sorry.

all you do is bait :facepalm: how long till someone bans this guy??????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????

Swashcuff
01-13-2011, 05:59 PM
all you do is bait :facepalm: how long till someone bans this guy??????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????

I fully agree. 100% he is arguably the most annoying poster on here.

uptownfan
01-13-2011, 06:30 PM
I feel like part of the reason that he gets overlooked is because he always is the odd man out. Examples:

Traded to Knicks to make room for Oden and Aldridge
Traded to Clippers so Knicks could clear cap space
Traded to Grizzlies to make room for Griffin, Kaman and Camby

And I disagree with the whole "winner" talk that everyone talks about and how he is not a winner. He's never really been on a team that had a legit chance of being solid, and that's not something he's had control over

llemon
01-13-2011, 06:36 PM
I feel like part of the reason that he gets overlooked is because he always is the odd man out. Examples:

Traded to Knicks to make room for Oden and Aldridge
Traded to Clippers so Knicks could clear cap space
Traded to Grizzlies to make room for Griffin, Kaman and Camby

And I disagree with the whole "winner" talk that everyone talks about and how he is not a winner. He's never really been on a team that had a legit chance of being solid, and that's not something he's had control over

If any of those teams thought he was a winner, they would have found a way to keep him.

Swashcuff
01-13-2011, 06:36 PM
I feel like part of the reason that he gets overlooked is because he always is the odd man out. Examples:

Traded to Knicks to make room for Oden and Aldridge
Traded to Clippers so Knicks could clear cap space
Traded to Grizzlies to make room for Griffin, Kaman and Camby

And I disagree with the whole "winner" talk that everyone talks about and how he is not a winner. He's never really been on a team that had a legit chance of being solid, and that's not something he's had control over

I all honesty that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Ask yourself the question then. Why is he always the odd man out?

Swashcuff
01-13-2011, 06:44 PM
If any of those teams thought he was a winner, they would have found a way ti keep him.

Exactly. And the Grizzlie team is arguably better than any Grizz team that Pau ever played on. More talent than some of the Pacer teams in which Jermaine O'Neal played on. So saying he doesn't have the talent around him is inaccurate.

IF he played D he would be a much more effective, impacting and respected player. Despite the attitude and bad history he would sill be recognized for what he's doing.

theducksmuggler
01-13-2011, 06:59 PM
289-373 the record of teams he has played for, played in 7! playoff games averaging 13 and 9, he isnt overlooked people know he fills the stat sheet but who cares? win some games!

Chronz
01-14-2011, 04:04 AM
Exactly. And the Grizzlie team is arguably better than any Grizz team that Pau ever played on.
The Talent in the West is considerably stronger now than it was then, Pau doesnt win 50 games with that club in this era. Pau is a better player for sure but I dont think the OP is proclaiming him as the best PF in the game.


More talent than some of the Pacer teams in which Jermaine O'Neal played on.
F NO. Jermaines teams could float around .500 without him, Jermaine was terrible offensively and stellar defensively. Hes basically the alternate of Z-Bo, granted youd rather have someone who can defend like him and hope he catches fire rather than someone who gives up nearly as much as he gets consistently.


IF he played D he would be a much more effective, impacting and respected player. Despite the attitude and bad history he would sill be recognized for what he's doing.

He has been respected, he made the ALL-STAR squad last year, it means alot when you accomplish this on a losing team.


hes not being asked to lead anything.

btw id love to see Marcs Numebrs with 18 shots per game.

Why should he get more shots per game when hes not even more efficient offensively in his limited role? If he could handle more shots in a manner that benefits the team, the coach would make it happen. If Marc were to crash the offensive glass the way Z-Bo does, he would find more shots. Marcs #'s with 18 shots per game would suffer, at the least they wouldnt be on Z-Bo's level.



PS Its funny that so many people say to watch the dude play, for most of his career youd be right, but hes worked on becoming an efficient force. I used to say the same thing until I saw him live. The guy is a hard worker and if he had any athletic ability would be a better defender. But hes not and thats his doom but is Scola really better than him? Cmon now

Tblaze
01-14-2011, 11:27 AM
he always put up great stats on losing teams..

Hustla23
01-14-2011, 12:00 PM
Zach is just a beast.

People hate on this guy for no reason.

He's better than Carlos Boozer at the moment yet look at the amounts of love each gets.

Zach has been pretty damn efficient this year offensively, and he makes up for a lot of his defensive deficiencies with his impact on the glass.

Go ZBO!!!!

m77s
01-14-2011, 12:01 PM
Look at the Grizzlies play and you'd understand what he's talking about. He makes PERFECT sense.

There is a reason why Pau Gasol (with an inferior roster) could've led that Grizzlie team to multiple play-off appearances and Zach cannot and will never be able to.

You are just making yourself sound incompetent he is speaking the truth. Basic #s aren't everything.

Ok Genius, Please explain to me the 15 game Win Increase last year when Zbo came in, and the fact that we have already won near as many games this year than we usually did pre zbo / post Pau.

The Grizzlies Deficiencies Aren't Zbo. Rather We lack Perimeter Defense, Were undersized in the Backcourt, and have no Real " Shooter " off the bench. Our overall Team Defense is suspect at best and is very inconsistent. Yes Zbo doesn't play defense the way he should, but it's a Team problem. NONE OF OUR TEAM plays defense the way that they should.

No team would be " worse off " by having a 20 point 13 rebound Machine inside. All Zbo does is cleanup the glass and cover up this team's deficiencies with his putbacks, consistency, and ability to make shots with guys draped all over him. He has a nice Midrange Stoke which he very rarely misses.. and hardly ever shoots the ball from 3pt range anymore... and he averages nearly as many assists as our backup point guard.

Know what your talking about before you post.

You saying you wouldn't want him on your team?

m77s
01-14-2011, 12:05 PM
He's inconsistent...... doesn't have enough playoff experience......he's undersized. ......he's a lunch pail type of player that eats his lunch sometimes before the game. I can see why he's not mentioned much and gets overlooked but he does pop up on sports center every now and again.....either with a good game or a strip club incident. So happy he's not a Knick anymore I don't know what to do.

Please Enlighten me. How is Zack inconsistent? He is the most consistent player we have, and maybe one of the most consistent and underrated bigs in the league.

m77s
01-14-2011, 12:07 PM
289-373 the record of teams he has played for, played in 7! playoff games averaging 13 and 9, he isnt overlooked people know he fills the stat sheet but who cares? win some games!

Clippers, Knicks ( the past 10 years) , and Grizzlies ... perinneal losers with or without Zbo,

BoognishMN
01-14-2011, 12:24 PM
Anyone who gives this guy a longterm deal is insane, I'd bet he puts on 5 pounds for every million he makes if he gets a longterm deal.

llemon
01-14-2011, 12:47 PM
F NO. Jermaines teams could float around .500 without him, Jermaine was terrible offensively and stellar defensively. Hes basically the alternate of Z-Bo, granted youd rather have someone who can defend like him and hope he catches fire rather than someone who gives up nearly as much as he gets consistently.

Jermaine had 6 straight years of better than 19 ppg while a Pacer.

JayAllDay
01-14-2011, 01:07 PM
Isiah came to the same conclusion a few years back.

Now he's at Florida International.

Z-Bo sucks.

JayAllDay
01-14-2011, 01:21 PM
Please Enlighten me. How is Zack inconsistent? He is the most consistent player we have, and maybe one of the most consistent and underrated bigs in the league.

He's inconsistent, but he's not underrated. What you see is what you get, and this season is gonna be as good as it gets.

An undersized big man that can't block shots or pass the ball. I do give him credit for cutting down on his TOs a whole lot, but he's the same Z-Bo. Putting up the same stats win or lose. **** that.

You know why he doesn't get dunked on? It's because he never made it to the vicinity of the play, or maybe because he can't jump over a stack of phone books.

koLohe2133
01-14-2011, 01:35 PM
Not by the police

knickfan4life
01-14-2011, 02:00 PM
z-bo is a beast, dont get me wrong, but he is a loser, he puts up good numbers, but drags the team down... look at any decent situation he has ever been in and look at those situations post z-bo

m77s
01-14-2011, 02:23 PM
Because Zach has a repuation. There's a reason they called them the "jailblazers" when he was there. Also note that he's currently under investigation for funding a drug smuggling operation in Indiana.

He's a pariah that only desparate teams would consider. He has a repuation ON the court as well. Despite being a consistent 20/10 guy he's known as a black hole on offense, never giving the ball up once he has it. Whether that's still deserved or not I don't know, but the rep is there. And he still doesn't play defense. Anyone looking to give Zach some credit for his admittedly amazing numbers will be told that he's padding his stats at the cost of the team. Again, true or not, that's his rep.

JUST IN TODAY 1/14/2011: "Zach Randolph received the NBA Cares Community Assist Award for December in recognition of his ongoing philanthropic and charitable work."

m77s
01-14-2011, 02:27 PM
z-bo is a beast, dont get me wrong, but he is a loser, he puts up good numbers, but drags the team down... look at any decent situation he has ever been in and look at those situations post z-bo

Again... Zbo allowed our team to pick up 15 additional wins last year, he did not drag the team down, He was the only addition that mattered last year and the grizz almost made the playoffs.

I know almost dont count, but in this case, it does because without zbo, we wouldnt have been anywhere close to a .500 record or even sniffin the playoffs. With Denver and Portland about to slide, if we simply play .600 ball from here on out, we will win be the 7th or 8th seed and a + .500 record

llemon
01-14-2011, 02:29 PM
Again... Zbo allowed our team to pick up 15 additional wins last year, he did not drag the team down, He was the only addition that mattered last year and the grizz almost made the playoffs.

I know almost dont count, but in this case, it does because without zbo, we wouldnt have been anywhere close to a .500 record or even sniffin the playoffs. With Denver and Portland about to slide, if we simply play .600 ball from here on out, we will win be the 7th or 8th seed and a + .500 record

So why aren't Grizz extending his contract?

m77s
01-14-2011, 02:31 PM
He's inconsistent, but he's not underrated. What you see is what you get, and this season is gonna be as good as it gets.

An undersized big man that can't block shots or pass the ball. I do give him credit for cutting down on his TOs a whole lot, but he's the same Z-Bo. Putting up the same stats win or lose. **** that.

You know why he doesn't get dunked on? It's because he never made it to the vicinity of the play, or maybe because he can't jump over a stack of phone books.

how is going out and scoring NO LESS than 18 pts and NO LESS than 9 boards, Averaging 20 pts and 13 boards a game inconsistent?
You still didnt answer that.

m77s
01-14-2011, 02:37 PM
Points and Rebounds the last month... looks pretty consistent to me
Points/Rebs
34 pts /17rebs
15 pts / 15 Rebs
27 pts / 16 Rebs
26 pts / 11 Rebs.
31 pts / 16 Rebs
21 pts / 8 Rebs
27 pts / 16 Rebs

His worst game all season is 9 pts and 9 Rebs, and that was one isolated game. The rest of his games all look similar to this, and have his entire career... so dont sit here and tell me Zbo is inconsistent. That's just ignorance.

uptownfan
01-14-2011, 02:39 PM
Zach is just a beast.

People hate on this guy for no reason.

He's better than Carlos Boozer at the moment yet look at the amounts of love each gets.

Zach has been pretty damn efficient this year offensively, and he makes up for a lot of his defensive deficiencies with his impact on the glass.

Go ZBO!!!!
Um, Boozer is shooting 56%

I'm not arguing that Randolph isn't on Boozer's level, but I wouldn't go as far as saying that Randolph is better than Boozer

m77s
01-14-2011, 02:42 PM
So why aren't Grizz extending his contract?

because we have the Worst Front office in the league.

Not only did we Draft Thabeet over Evans, Curry, Jennings when we obviously have a turd for a PG We picked up his 3rd year player option shortly after.

We allowed our " shooter " in Xavier Henry sit idly by and watch trying to big boy him over 300k/yr on his contract and he is leaps and bounds behind because he missed Summer League and Most of Traning Camp

These guys are not very smart in our front office. Where the hell else are we going to get a 20pt 13 reb guy to come to the city. We gonna sign a free agent? nope. none want to come here..... So if they dont sign Zbo, seeing how he wants to be here, then they should be shot.

ddhulett
01-14-2011, 02:49 PM
Start winning then He will be noticed, Empty numbers in my book.

Dirk and Amare two guys off the top of my mind that prove that they bring Winning.

koLohe2133
01-14-2011, 02:59 PM
JUST IN TODAY 1/14/2011: "Zach Randolph received the NBA Cares Community Assist Award for December in recognition of his ongoing philanthropic and charitable work."

Lowered the cost of his dub sacks? Niiiiicccceeee

Gideon
01-14-2011, 03:06 PM
Zach Randolph is an offensive and rebounding beast! However, his defense is poor and his reputation as far as character will stick with him his whole career even if it is unwarranted at this point. Problem is players like Zach usually play on losing teams and there is something to it. Outside of Boozer who had played with one of the top PG's and now a young up and coming top 5 PG, you look at players like David Lee last year on the Knicks or Kevin Love this year with Minny and they put up incredible stats, but on losing teams. What do they all have in common? Poor defense. Blake Griffin might even fall in that category, but there isn't a large enough body of work to know how his D will progress, but as of now he could be included. All of these guys struggle against taller skilled players when it counts. All of that said, Love and Griffin get a lot of recognition and maybe it's cause they are still young putting up ridiculous stats, but then Z-bo putting up the same numbers should get more recognition than he does.

Hustla23
01-14-2011, 03:40 PM
Um, Boozer is shooting 56%

I'm not arguing that Randolph isn't on Boozer's level, but I wouldn't go as far as saying that Randolph is better than Boozer
He's better than him for the moment. He's offensively more efficient and he's rebounding better than he is.

ddhulett
01-14-2011, 04:48 PM
Randolph is a Midget for his position and no PF at 6-9 or under will never help.

Defensive liability

With Marc Gasol, Rudy Gay, Mayo and Randolph should be no excuse not to be over a .500 team if he's that great!

Swashcuff
01-14-2011, 04:54 PM
Ok Genius, Please explain to me the 15 game Win Increase last year when Zbo came in, and the fact that we have already won near as many games this year than we usually did pre zbo / post Pau.

The Grizzlies Deficiencies Aren't Zbo. Rather We lack Perimeter Defense, Were undersized in the Backcourt, and have no Real " Shooter " off the bench. Our overall Team Defense is suspect at best and is very inconsistent. Yes Zbo doesn't play defense the way he should, but it's a Team problem. NONE OF OUR TEAM plays defense the way that they should.

No team would be " worse off " by having a 20 point 13 rebound Machine inside. All Zbo does is cleanup the glass and cover up this team's deficiencies with his putbacks, consistency, and ability to make shots with guys draped all over him. He has a nice Midrange Stoke which he very rarely misses.. and hardly ever shoots the ball from 3pt range anymore... and he averages nearly as many assists as our backup point guard.

Know what your talking about before you post.

You saying you wouldn't want him on your team?

Firstly to answer your question YES I would want him on my team as I stated earlier I am a big fan of his still and I wish the best for him.

You talk about you lack Perimeter defense, so what would you say about the Orlando Magic who started Jameer Nelson, Vince Carter and Rashard Lewis out there last season and was still the top defensive team throughout the regular season. Why do you think that was the case? Other than Gortat and Pietrus could you name me one other player who was known for D on that Orlando team? This whole thing where you guys keep talking about no one plays defense on the Grizz needs to be thrown out the window IMMEDIATELY. It makes NO sense whatsoever. NONE! He has NEVER played any form of consistent defense during his NBA career.

I never once said that they'd be a better team without Z-Bo I said if he played any form of Defense they'd be a better team.

If you think the reason for your 15 game increase was SOLELY because of Randolph you are severely mistaken. He was indeed the major contributor but Marc played well to start the season (when you guys were hot) and when he tailed off Randolph started really fulling the stat sheet.

Trust me I know what I am talking about I have followed him from the time he entered the league and was a big follower of the grizzlies from since the Vancouver days so if you don't know what you are talking about try again.

You said he has a nice mid range J that he rarely misses right

http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PF&yr=2011&gp=20&mins=30

http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=PF&yr=2011&gp=20&mins=30

so could you tell me why he's ranked 16th and 17th respectively among PF in shooting percentage from 10-15 and 16-23 feet from the basket?

There is a reason why he's been taking his game closer to the basket this season and especially since he's gotten hot. This has been a trend throughout his entire career. When he's not on his game it's like he forget how much talent he has.

I know what I am talking about. You need to stop being a homer and realise that the reason your team isn't making the play-offs is because of your overall lack of defense ESPECIALLY from your All-Star calibre PF.

It's been proven throughout league history that if the guys inside have a strong defensive philosophy the perimeter guys will look better. Case in point Ray Allen and Paul Pierce, average defenders their entire career and now they are viewed as above average. The guys inside HAVE to buy into that first.

Swashcuff
01-14-2011, 04:55 PM
Randolph is a Midget for his position and no PF at 6-9 or under will never help.

Defensive liability

With Marc Gasol, Rudy Gay, Mayo and Randolph should be no excuse not to be over a .500 team if he's that great!

:confused:

Swashcuff
01-14-2011, 04:56 PM
He's better than him for the moment. He's offensively more efficient and he's rebounding better than he is.

take a look at the links in post #87. Tell me is Zach really that much more efficient/effective on offense. His rebounding however is certainly better.

rhymeratic
01-14-2011, 05:05 PM
Zach Randolph = Vin Baker

Swashcuff
01-14-2011, 05:11 PM
The Talent in the West is considerably stronger now than it was then, Pau doesnt win 50 games with that club in this era. Pau is a better player for sure but I dont think the OP is proclaiming him as the best PF in the game.

I would have to disagree with you on this? Pau's defense and unselfishness would be a determining factor in his team's overall play. I am not calling him Duncan but even that version of Pau would essentially make his teammates better in the same way Duncan does.



F NO. Jermaines teams could float around .500 without him, Jermaine was terrible offensively and stellar defensively. Hes basically the alternate of Z-Bo, granted youd rather have someone who can defend like him and hope he catches fire rather than someone who gives up nearly as much as he gets consistently.


do you really think the 02-03 Indiana Pacer for example minus Jermaine team is more talented than the current Memphis Grizzlies roster minus Zach? Again I would have to disagree with you on this. The sure had the mentality and the maturity but as far as talent goes I don't think they're better.


He has been respected, he made the ALL-STAR squad last year, it means alot when you accomplish this on a losing team.

What the OP alluded was that even after all his stellar play this season people don't mention him among the better PFs in the league. Anyone who knows the game knows about him and knows he can fill the stat sheet but he lack of flash and defense is a major reason why even after somewhat revamping his image he doesn't get as much respect as guys like Boozer or Bosh.


PS Its funny that so many people say to watch the dude play, for most of his career youd be right, but hes worked on becoming an efficient force. I used to say the same thing until I saw him live. The guy is a hard worker and if he had any athletic ability would be a better defender. But hes not and thats his doom but is Scola really better than him? Cmon now

I'd say this Scola may not be a better defensive player than Zach but he works he ***** off and is respected because of that. I've literally seen Zach allow his man to score without even putting any real effort into defending him or the shot.

ddhulett
01-14-2011, 06:10 PM
:confused:

Confused on what? It's Zach Randolph who cares

Swashcuff
01-14-2011, 06:23 PM
Confused on what? It's Zach Randolph who cares

He is a midget for his position? :confused:

Tony_Starks
01-14-2011, 09:24 PM
Zach has a reputation, I think a unfair one, and for that reason he's been constantly doubted for the last 5 + years. But he's a one of kind legit PF. had a few 30pt, 20rebound games this season. Rebounding beast. Consistent scorer. AND it helps his team win, he's not just padding stats here.

Definitely one of my favorite players.

mzgrizz
01-14-2011, 11:44 PM
Because Zach has a repuation. There's a reason they called them the "jailblazers" when he was there. Also note that he's currently under investigation for funding a drug smuggling operation in Indiana.

He's a pariah that only desparate teams would consider. He has a repuation ON the court as well. Despite being a consistent 20/10 guy he's known as a black hole on offense, never giving the ball up once he has it. Whether that's still deserved or not I don't know, but the rep is there. And he still doesn't play defense. Anyone looking to give Zach some credit for his admittedly amazing numbers will be told that he's padding his stats at the cost of the team. Again, true or not, that's his rep.

The NBA Cares Community Assist Award for December was awarded to Zach Randolph today. Seriously doubt that would be done if he was under a legal cloud. He has consistently been a contributor to communities and individuals and been a good citizen here in Memphis. Had it not been for ZBo , Memphis would never have achieved a 14 game improvemment last year. I get really tired of hearing the same old **** about how bad a playa he is when all he's done here is good work.

Chronz
01-14-2011, 11:45 PM
I would have to disagree with you on this? Pau's defense and unselfishness would be a determining factor in his team's overall play. I am not calling him Duncan but even that version of Pau would essentially make his teammates better in the same way Duncan does.
Your not making any sense, hes the same player with the same teammates, why would you expect the same results in a tougher environment. Its not as if he wasnt bringing those qualities in whatever year you want to bring up.



do you really think the 02-03 Indiana Pacer for example minus Jermaine team is more talented than the current Memphis Grizzlies roster minus Zach? Again I would have to disagree with you on this. The sure had the mentality and the maturity but as far as talent goes I don't think they're better.

Everyone has their way of measuring talent so I wont go there it really doesnt matter, what matters is that they have it where it counts. Again, they were able to win a ton of games without Jermaine and hover above .500. For their environment he had more support PERIOD.



What the OP alluded was that even after all his stellar play this season people don't mention him among the better PFs in the league. Anyone who knows the game knows about him and knows he can fill the stat sheet but he lack of flash and defense is a major reason why even after somewhat revamping his image he doesn't get as much respect as guys like Boozer or Bosh.

I still dont get what makes Boozer so special, its not as if hes a good defender or flashy. Plus he was more of a dick than anyone and is rarely healthy.


I'd say this Scola may not be a better defensive player than Zach but he works he ***** off and is respected because of that. I've literally seen Zach allow his man to score without even putting any real effort into defending him or the shot.

Ive seen Scola do the same, Ive seen Kobe do it, it happens, what matters is the consistency, not the effort. If a guy tries hard but cant get it done why the **** would I care?

Tony_Starks
01-14-2011, 11:49 PM
JUST IN TODAY 1/14/2011: "Zach Randolph received the NBA Cares Community Assist Award for December in recognition of his ongoing philanthropic and charitable work."

Thank you for bringing factual reality into the conversation sir! People love to hate on someones past but look at what he's doing now. He's also helped Memphis to respectability and been an allstar btw.....

mzgrizz
01-14-2011, 11:57 PM
So why aren't Grizz extending his contract?

You do not know jack about the owner, Mike Heisley........he'll wait it out trying to save a buck or maybe decide to keep Zach and cut Marc or vice versa

Tony_Starks
01-15-2011, 12:02 AM
How many players are currently putting up multiple 30 point 20 rebound games? I can think of only two......