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View Full Version : Game on the line:Who do you fear Most????



bolts4ever
01-10-2011, 05:01 AM
I've been arguying with these crazies in a who's more clutch Kobe vs Lebron forum!!! In this forum some guy posted an article saying Kobe isnt as clutch as everyone thinks, than he proceeds to attempt to prove his point by saying statistically Lebron has hit more clutch shots unders some criteria.

I just wanna know from opposing teams fans Not Heat or Lakers Fans!!!!

With the game on the line your team is up by one: Whos the one player that you hate to see with and opportunity to win the game????? and if you can explain why???

210Don
01-10-2011, 05:02 AM
lol kobe
let me explain
hes better.

Joshtd1
01-10-2011, 05:10 AM
Is this question in general..or just between Kobe or LBJ.

In general Dirk and Melo scare the **** out of me. If I had to choose LBJ or Kobe..Idk. I think LBJ is more likely to get a foul call because hell just drive to the basket. Kobe is much better mid range shooter. I think I would probably choose Kobe for one shot though.

DFROZE#1
01-10-2011, 05:15 AM
I fear the guy with 5 rings and the guy who wants to take the last shot. I have seen lebron pass up many of shots to win the game. Kobe not so much.

ChiSox219
01-10-2011, 05:18 AM
Kd

blueplanet
01-10-2011, 05:29 AM
LOL @ yet another LeBron bashing thread. Obviously most PSD people are gonna be against LeBron just like it was not a question who's been the best player last 3 years and LeBron used to win by miles and miles on those polls. Now all of a sudden LeBron is a bad player...hehe..talk about joke. That thread included all the FACTs that pretty much summarizes Kobe is one of the biggest ballhogging superstars in the history of the game. There is NO WAY you can deny those facts.

meloman1592
01-10-2011, 05:33 AM
kobe/melo/wade....in that order....dirk can be played tightly, durant has suspect handle and Lebron...well ive only seen him hit 2 clutch shots

Bulls_fan90
01-10-2011, 05:47 AM
If a 3 is needed...Ray Allen. **** he's clutch.

Knicks21
01-10-2011, 05:55 AM
Dirk. You cant block that fade away jump shot. You can only contest, but he can still hit it.

Knicks21
01-10-2011, 05:58 AM
LOL @ yet another LeBron bashing thread. Obviously most PSD people are gonna be against LeBron just like it was not a question who's been the best player last 3 years and LeBron used to win by miles and miles on those polls. Now all of a sudden LeBron is a bad player...hehe..talk about joke. That thread included all the FACTs that pretty much summarizes Kobe is one of the biggest ballhogging superstars in the history of the game. There is NO WAY you can deny those facts.

Again stop being so defensive. No one is attacking the heat. You talk about how we bash lebron, but its ok for you to bash kobe.... smh

blueplanet
01-10-2011, 06:07 AM
Again stop being so defensive. No one is attacking the heat. You talk about how we bash lebron, but its ok for you to bash kobe.... smh

I didn't bash kobe. I stated what that article summarized. That article is not based on any PSD opinions, that provides FACTS/numbers for what he has done over the years. Nothing like opinions. Stop quoting me if you can't understand my post. Skip over and there are plenty of posts that might satisfy you.

Duncan = Donkey
01-10-2011, 06:07 AM
I want Kobe to take the shot so he can take a fade away while being triple teamed.

Probaly fear the Big German the most, Or a Duncan 3 pointer.

Knicks21
01-10-2011, 06:32 AM
I didn't bash kobe. I stated what that article summarized. That article is not based on any PSD opinions, that provides FACTS/numbers for what he has done over the years. Nothing like opinions. Stop quoting me if you can't understand my post. Skip over and there are plenty of posts that might satisfy you.

"Kobe is one of the biggest ballhogging superstars in the history of the game." If that is not bashing than i do not know what is. This whole thread is based on opinion, hence why it asks who do YOU fear most in crunch time. None of this Statistic BS, you have to recognize who you fear most because of match ups, height advantages, experience etc. Amare aint a defender, so Dirk is who i fear. Just the same as i would fear kobe more because of match ups. We would have a second round player guarding him, which is scary stuff. Oh, and the thread did ask for no heat and laker fans so why input?

asandhu23
01-10-2011, 06:40 AM
my warriors always choke in clutch moments...

DFROZE#1
01-10-2011, 06:44 AM
LOL @ yet another LeBron bashing thread. Obviously most PSD people are gonna be against LeBron just like it was not a question who's been the best player last 3 years and LeBron used to win by miles and miles on those polls. Now all of a sudden LeBron is a bad player...hehe..talk about joke. That thread included all the FACTs that pretty much summarizes Kobe is one of the biggest ballhogging superstars in the history of the game. There is NO WAY you can deny those facts.

I have not seen one post so far bashing lebron. Why are you so sensitive about him bro? Almost every thread that his name comes up in you start crying about how everyone hates him. Do you think he cares if people on psd hate him? No so why do you care so much. Are you guys like dating or something. Get off the mans nuts.

VikesTwinsWolve
01-10-2011, 10:07 AM
I have not seen one post so far bashing lebron. Why are you so sensitive about him bro? Almost every thread that his name comes up in you start crying about how everyone hates him. Do you think he cares if people on psd hate him? No so why do you care so much. Are you guys like dating or something. Get off the mans nuts.
Like a great Metallica song: SAD BUT TRUE :D

anjoe29
01-10-2011, 10:22 AM
LOL @ yet another LeBron bashing thread. Obviously most PSD people are gonna be against LeBron just like it was not a question who's been the best player last 3 years and LeBron used to win by miles and miles on those polls. Now all of a sudden LeBron is a bad player...hehe..talk about joke. That thread included all the FACTs that pretty much summarizes Kobe is one of the biggest ballhogging superstars in the history of the game. There is NO WAY you can deny those facts.

:facepalm:

anjoe29
01-10-2011, 10:26 AM
KOBE and then ray allen..

Kashmir13579
01-10-2011, 10:31 AM
Paul Pierce /thread

John Walls Era
01-10-2011, 10:37 AM
I'm not scared of Melo. I would just double him and then put a guy in the paint. We know hes not passing and he is definitely taking a midrange jumper.... I would say Pierce, he always does that quick step back and fade.

xbrackattackx
01-10-2011, 10:38 AM
Manu G!

effen5
01-10-2011, 10:49 AM
Last shot on the line? Kobe, Melo, or Dirk, those three would scare the hell out of me.

ManRam
01-10-2011, 10:57 AM
Kobe for the last shot. Lebron of you're down 7 with two minutes left. Ray if you need a three. Melo and dirk are safe options too...as are manu, wade and pierce.

Hawkeye15
01-10-2011, 02:01 PM
Melo, Manu, LeBron, Kobe. In that order for me.

MJ-BULLS
01-10-2011, 02:07 PM
Carmelo Anthony, Kobe Bryant, Dirk, Paul Pierce.

wallerstud05
01-10-2011, 02:17 PM
Wow is there really a debate? Kobe hands down. The best shot maker in the game, esp when it counts the most. Yes other players are clutch, biut when the game is on the line with one shot left, Kobe is the best since Jordan. Lebron pass up too many cause he dont have the mental toughness to make those consistently.

Gambeezy
01-10-2011, 02:22 PM
Wow is there really a debate? Kobe hands down. The best shot maker in the game, esp when it counts the most. Yes other players are clutch, biut when the game is on the line with one shot left, Kobe is the best since Jordan. Lebron pass up too many cause he dont have the mental toughness to make those consistently.

Glad you waited 5 years to finally participate..lol

AIRMAR72
01-10-2011, 02:23 PM
it like this kobe WILL and EFFORT IS not AS GREAT AS PIERCE,WADE ,BRON,MANU and brandon roy when the games is on da line SO ANYONE OF THOSE 4

PhillyFaninLA
01-10-2011, 02:24 PM
I want Kobe for the last shot but I want Lebron for the half.

AddiX
01-10-2011, 02:25 PM
I don't know how Bron can be considered "clutch". He's never been a clutch shooter in his NBA career.

Kobe
Ray
Crawford
Wade
Melo
Pierce

Most clutch dudes in the NBA with the game on the line.

nickdymez
01-10-2011, 02:25 PM
Kobe, Paul Pierce, dirk, melo, wade

dnewguy
01-10-2011, 02:27 PM
this isn't 2005....Kobe hasn't been clutch for 4 years now. Most clutch Laker is Derek Fisher, ask Phil who he will rather have the ball, Kobe or Fisher.

wallerstud05
01-10-2011, 02:36 PM
Kobe has not been clutch in 4 years??? hahaha were you under a rock last season. Kobe had one of the most game winners in a single season EVER in nba history sir!. Hey dnewguy, seems like you in love with Lebron James. i have one quick question for you...How can someone call himself " The King" when he quit(coward) on his team twice against the Celtics. And also have no rings.

boozdawg
01-10-2011, 02:41 PM
drose

Ty Fast
01-10-2011, 02:50 PM
kobe. look at his track record.

8kobe24
01-10-2011, 02:51 PM
Kobe, wade, paul pierce, durant.

ElMarroAfamado
01-10-2011, 03:05 PM
Kobe because he can win the game on a jumper or an assortment of other offensive moves.... when lebrick can only drive to the hoop and if his avenue to layup or dunk is blocked he will pass out to someone else to take the shot.....

justinnum1
01-10-2011, 03:10 PM
Wade

marlinsfan24
01-10-2011, 03:10 PM
If you said Kobe or Lebron aren't clutch, you don't deserve to be alive.

AIRMAR72
01-10-2011, 03:20 PM
Kobe has not been clutch in 4 years??? hahaha were you under a rock last season. Kobe had one of the most game winners in a single season EVER in nba history sir!. Hey dnewguy, seems like you in love with Lebron James. i have one quick question for you...How can someone call himself " The King" when he quit(coward) on his team twice against the Celtics. And also have no rings.
where you in 04 when kobe cause da lakers to lose series against da pistons trying very HARD to be like MIKE stinking up da courts with bricks after bricks leading to a 4-1 championship victory for da pistons and coach jackson calling kobe uncoachable after da game than wrote a book disrespecting kobe? or the fallowing year when da lakers with kobe (no coach jackson that year cause he had retired) a kobe laker didnt even make the playoffs they won like 30 games that year and how about when da laker with a fresh young andrew they had da suns 3-1 or 4-1 (i think) and da suns came back to win da series with no amare.. kobe again suffering from jordanitist blew the whole series in the last game in da 4th qtr he was shooting blanks not sharing da rock causing the lakers to lose da series...KOBE SUCKS!!! and he always has been overrated playing on stud teams with his fake WILL to win ratface self he aint NOTHING but a watered down wanna be mike

ThunderZubb
01-10-2011, 03:39 PM
LOL @ yet another LeBron bashing thread. Obviously most PSD people are gonna be against LeBron just like it was not a question who's been the best player last 3 years and LeBron used to win by miles and miles on those polls. Now all of a sudden LeBron is a bad player...hehe..talk about joke. That thread included all the FACTs that pretty much summarizes Kobe is one of the biggest ballhogging superstars in the history of the game. There is NO WAY you can deny those facts.

Damn Miami Fans are sensitive. Relax Miami Fans no one is bashing Lebron. We asked who do you fear the most when the game is on the line. Seriously Miami Fans need to get off Lebron balls once in a while. There like Stalkers that if you say something about Lebron that we committed a sin by breaking the Ten Commandments.

deaner
01-10-2011, 03:47 PM
game on the line... I fear the raptors the most.
Because I'm a raptor fan and we beat ourselves.

marlinsfan24
01-10-2011, 03:49 PM
And for the record, I'll take Ray Allen...he never misses those damn open 3's.

nickdymez
01-10-2011, 04:05 PM
this isn't 2005....Kobe hasn't been clutch for 4 years now. Most clutch Laker is Derek Fisher, ask Phil who he will rather have the ball, Kobe or Fisher.

Kill yourself heat fan

k24springs
01-10-2011, 04:08 PM
Ray Allen aka Jesus Shuttlesworth.

Minimal
01-10-2011, 04:12 PM
I would say last couple of years Paul Pierce is one heck of a clutch. Game 3 2010 First Round, I'll remember that.

Chacarron
01-10-2011, 04:19 PM
Dirk has a nice fadeaway for those moments.

Klivlend
01-10-2011, 04:31 PM
kobe/melo/wade....in that order....dirk can be played tightly, durant has suspect handle and Lebron...well ive only seen him hit 2 clutch shots

Wow. You clearly have not seen LBJ play that much, have you?

Rego247
01-10-2011, 04:39 PM
clutch is spelled k.o.b.e

he scares the **** outta me if my team is up 2 and lakers have the ball with 8 secs left.

KDM1986
01-10-2011, 04:42 PM
Their are alot of players who I dont want to see taking the last shot but cmon Kobe is far and away the best. Cant beat experience.

Corey
01-10-2011, 04:49 PM
If you need a 3, Ray Allen coming off a pick.

Need 2 or 1, I'd go with Lebron, honestly. He has the best shot at getting to the rim.

Depends on how much time is on the clock, and who the supporting cast is, though.

wallerstud05
01-10-2011, 05:09 PM
AirMar72....hahaha first of Shaq lost that series against Detroit for us and the fact that Malone was injured also...Kobe kept them from being swept. You say he was ballhoggin or what not but still averaged 5 assists per game....smh! Dude do you even watch the games or do you get on the internet and watch highlights??? More importantly are you even an athlete or coach of any sort??? Cause if you were ever a athlete, that aleast decent in any sport then you will know what it is like to be competetive and to do anything possible not to lose...Honestly would you rather have Kobe shooting the ball or having Kwame Brown and Smush Parker trying to will your team to victories???? And you bash him for having a losing record?? If Kobe wasnt on those teams we would have easily been a #1 or #2 pick in the lottery. So sorry man to hurt your feelings with some truthful facts, but i have heard enough nonsense in one day.

Hustlenomics
01-10-2011, 05:10 PM
Ray Allen .

Da Knicks
01-10-2011, 05:23 PM
Being saying it for the last two years you want the guy with one posession left go to Lebron, with one shot attempt you go Melo.

kjoke
01-10-2011, 05:27 PM
bosh

because im a homer

kjoke
01-10-2011, 05:28 PM
I would say last couple of years Paul Pierce is one heck of a clutch. Game 3 2010 First Round, I'll remember that.

hes very clutch

balla4life22
01-10-2011, 05:34 PM
paul pierce at the elbow. step back fade...game.

AirCanada15ORL
01-10-2011, 05:37 PM
1.Kobe Bryant- hes not shy. and hes hit so many in his career. and its amusing to watch him be triple teamed..have wide open teammates..and still take the shot. Not bashing.
2.Robert Horry- if hes in retirement bring him out. because he will make his 3 pt chuck no matter what.
3.Ray Ray- everytime i watch a close celtics game. ray always and i mean always hits a dagger 3. might not be a buzzer beater for the drmatics but trust me hes clutch.
4.Dirk- idc if its not as traditional to be going to a 7 footer for a fade away shot every time but i love it. id give dirk the ball anytime to take a fade away game winner.
5.Half man half amazing..well sorta- Idc what you say. Ive followed Vince forever, yes hes way too stilty for a 33 year old and old now. but the man is clutch as hell. He is a complete savior wen he wants to be. Its also amusing that he will make the gamewinner as hard as possible and MAKE IT. I have video evidence of like 10 of these if you want. Like we all know he could drive and make a fancy move and get to the line but he likes to take a crossover step back fade away last second 3 pt buzzer beater wen down by only 1 fricken point just to piss everyone off until it swishes. LOVE IT ha. and yes this might look biased
6.Ginobli- the dude is a killer


and honest truth If we are including NBA refs Id go to Lebron every time. The man will bulldoze down the lane and commit 3 offensive charges and get a foul called and probably finish as well. So yea thats a safe bet to go to him if he doenst pull up for a 3 because I dont ever trust Lebron shootin a clutch 3. Ive seen him hit one of those...and ive seen him clunk many.

heattiltheend94
01-10-2011, 05:48 PM
I fear the guy with 5 rings and the guy who wants to take the last shot.
Derrick Fisher? jk
Anyway, with the exception of Heat and Lakers, I would take Monta Ellis if down by 1, and Ray Allen if I was down by 2/3

heattiltheend94
01-10-2011, 05:49 PM
Ginobli- the dude is a killer
Forgot about him, I would take Ginobli with exception of Kobe and LeBron.

THE MTL
01-10-2011, 05:51 PM
I fear Kobe the most!

But Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, & Lebron James is up there too.

Master Mind
01-10-2011, 05:53 PM
Paul Pierce

BrahCake954
01-10-2011, 06:03 PM
I've been arguying with these crazies in a who's more clutch Kobe vs Lebron forum!!! In this forum some guy posted an article saying Kobe isnt as clutch as everyone thinks, than he proceeds to attempt to prove his point by saying statistically Lebron has hit more clutch shots unders some criteria.

I just wanna know from opposing teams fans Not Heat or Lakers Fans!!!!

With the game on the line your team is up by one: Whos the one player that you hate to see with and opportunity to win the game????? and if you can explain why???


typical kobME is better than lebron thread..

why do u think these threads keep getting made?

kobme stans know that kobe is no longer the best player.. he isnt even top 3.. they are threatened and know deep down that lebron is better than kobe but all they can do is dance around the fact and say kobme has 5 rings.. each of which he was not the best player on the team..

kobe is the most overrated overhyped star in the NBA..

Hellbound
01-10-2011, 06:04 PM
Rex chapman

Avenged
01-10-2011, 06:05 PM
For the last shot I'll go with Kobe.

Many like to consider clutch as the last 5 minutes of the game, so i'll go with Lebron for that.

You can't go wrong with Dirk and Melo either though.

ManRam
01-10-2011, 06:09 PM
I really wish 82games would update their stats on game winning shots. The last time they updated it (http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm) was over a year ago.

No matter how hard I search, I can not for the life of me find game winning shot ATTEMPTS anywhere. I don't care how much anyone has made without seeing how many they've missed. Over that span of time, Kobe made the 4th most, but missed the most by a good margin. I'd LOVE to see an updated stat of that. At that time, both LBJ and Kobe were 4 for 8 in playoff attempts. LeBron, according to just about any statistic that measure clutch play, has been the most clutch player in the NBA for a while now. I understand he hasn't won any rings (it's a team sport, look how bad his team looks now), but that doesn't mean he's not clutch. Besides last year's playoffs, he played about as flawlessly of basketball as you could expect.


But again, if anyone can find a place where I can find game-winning shot attempts (includes not just makes, but misses as well), I'll give you an e-hug. It's a shame that with the prevalence of advanced stats, something so basic as this is hard to find. # of makes means nothing without relating it to # of attempts.

mttwlsn16
01-10-2011, 06:28 PM
game on the line... I fear the raptors the most.
Because I'm a raptor fan and we beat ourselves.

lol best answer goes to this guy

king4day
01-10-2011, 06:50 PM
Kobe because he doesn't miss and has done it dozens of times in the last half decade alone.

anjoe29
01-10-2011, 08:13 PM
typical kobME is better than lebron thread..

why do u think these threads keep getting made?

kobme stans know that kobe is no longer the best player.. he isnt even top 3.. they are threatened and know deep down that lebron is better than kobe but all they can do is dance around the fact and say kobme has 5 rings.. each of which he was not the best player on the team..

kobe is the most overrated overhyped star in the NBA..
:facepalm: Hater at its finest

ashyzup
01-10-2011, 08:58 PM
I fear Kobe, Ray Allen, and Carmelo most when they are playing against the Mavs and are about to take the game-winning shot.

HuRRiCaNeS324
01-10-2011, 09:09 PM
Dirk and Pierce

CHANGO
01-11-2011, 03:17 PM
2010-2011
Sortable NBA Player "Clutch" Stats
For these stats "Clutch" is defined as:

4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points
http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM
That's the updated list.

Regarding the topic. For me the best are:
Last Shot: Dirk, Melo, Pierce, Kobe
Last shot 3pt: Ray Allen, Wade, Durant
Take control of a game: Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Melo

Hawkeye15
01-11-2011, 04:17 PM
Kobe because he doesn't miss and has done it dozens of times in the last half decade alone.

um, he missed 75% of his game winning attempts thru 2006, and since then, its nearly 65%.

shizzle09
01-11-2011, 04:45 PM
KOBE, / thread

central2003
01-11-2011, 04:47 PM
That one guy they call.......... black Mamba. As a kings fan I am scared to death in 4th quarter and seconds on the clock. I hold My breath when the ball is in his hands, Lebron does not even come close.

shizzle09
01-11-2011, 04:48 PM
Can we bring back Robert Horry?

shizzle09
01-11-2011, 04:49 PM
Yeah, wtching Kobe hit that bank shot to beat my heat last year pretty much sums it up.

ManRam
01-11-2011, 04:51 PM
2010-2011
Sortable NBA Player "Clutch" Stats
For these stats "Clutch" is defined as:

http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM
That's the updated list.

Regarding the topic. For me the best are:
Last Shot: Dirk, Melo, Pierce, Kobe
Last shot 3pt: Ray Allen, Wade, Durant
Take control of a game: Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Melo

That's just this season. I want to see a list like 82games posted almost two years ago of Kobe's whole career...or LeBron's whole career...or everyone's career.

Again, the only number that circulates is Kobe's game winners made...which is a shame. I think if his game winners missed was as well circulated, he wouldn't be getting as many votes from people. Again, total makes means little without total attempts factored in. Last time I saw a complete list, it showed that Kobe missed 75% of his game winning shots. Is that really clutch??? Shooting below your career FG% in clutch situations? He's a product of having a lot more attempts than most other guys, which does say something, but doesn't say everything. It's no different than making 20 shots in a game, which looks great on the surface, but if it took you 60 shots to do that, then you had a bad game.

shizzle09
01-11-2011, 04:53 PM
2010-2011
Sortable NBA Player "Clutch" Stats
For these stats "Clutch" is defined as:

http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM
That's the updated list.

Regarding the topic. For me the best are:
Last Shot: Dirk, Melo, Pierce, Kobe
Last shot 3pt: Ray Allen, Wade, Durant
Take control of a game: Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Melo

maybe im just blind but this list dosnt have Wade on it. They need to do another update to make it accurate.

Rangers331
01-11-2011, 05:04 PM
Amamree all day!!!!!!

CHANGO
01-11-2011, 05:12 PM
That's just this season. I want to see a list like 82games posted almost two years ago of Kobe's whole career...or LeBron's whole career...or everyone's career.

Again, the only number that circulates is Kobe's game winners made...which is a shame. I think if his game winners missed was as well circulated, he wouldn't be getting as many votes from people. Again, total makes means little without total attempts factored in. Last time I saw a complete list, it showed that Kobe missed 75% of his game winning shots. Is that really clutch??? Shooting below your career FG% in clutch situations? He's a product of having a lot more attempts than most other guys, which does say something, but doesn't say everything. It's no different than making 20 shots in a game, which looks great on the surface, but if it took you 60 shots to do that, then you had a bad game.

Look at the +/- of Kobe.

And it can be inferred that failed the .615 from the field, because it says FGA: 34.7 FG%: .385. I think he got only 13 shots in 34 attempts in clutch moments. Don't know if that means I am no good at math, LOL.:D

DwayneMVPwade
01-11-2011, 05:20 PM
Kobe

ManRam
01-11-2011, 05:29 PM
Look at the +/- of Kobe.

And it can be inferred that failed the .615 from the field, because it says FGA: 34.7 FG%: .385. I think he got only 13 shots in 34 attempts in clutch moments. Don't know if that means I am no good at math, LOL.:D

Those stats are just for this season...I really, really, really want to see career stats. It's all I wanted for Christmas, and didn't get it. I want to see if Kobe caught up to LeBron in terms of FG% on game winning shot attempts last season or not...and see an updated playoff game winning shot list, because last time 82games updated it, LeBron and Kobe were dead even.

Storch
01-11-2011, 05:44 PM
If we need just any basket, I would fear Kobe the most.

If it was a 3 pointer, Ray Allen. Hands down.

Storch
01-11-2011, 05:46 PM
Oh and on another note, Kobe often makes the game changing shot BEFORE it boils down to the last shot. That's why he's clutch. Get that in your heads kids.

ManRam
01-11-2011, 05:49 PM
Oh and on another note, Kobe often makes the game changing shot BEFORE it boils down to the last shot. That's why he's clutch. Get that in your heads kids.

More so than everyone not named LeBron, yes. He is great at the last shot, and the whole 4th quarter in close games. LeBron, over the last 3 seasons, has shot more effectively, scored more points per 48 minutes, and posted far superior +/- per 48 minutes in clutch situations. But Kobe is definitely a clear #2 on those lists.

D Roses Bulls
01-11-2011, 05:53 PM
More so than everyone not named LeBron, yes. He is great at the last shot, and the whole 4th quarter in close games. LeBron, over the last 3 seasons, has shot more effectively, scored more points per 48 minutes, and posted far superior +/- per 48 minutes in clutch situations. But Kobe is definitely a clear #2 on those lists.

how did I know you were gonna say lebron when I saw the title ;)

D Roses Bulls
01-11-2011, 05:58 PM
It's gotta be Kobe. he has proved it time and time again. no one else even comes close in the NBA

D Roses Bulls
01-11-2011, 06:03 PM
Oh and on another note, Kobe often makes the game changing shot BEFORE it boils down to the last shot. That's why he's clutch. Get that in your heads kids.

yeah, I'm not even a fan of kobe, but no one comes close to kobe when it comes down to clutch and especially the last shot. people are thinking with their hearts, more then their head.

ManRam
01-11-2011, 06:04 PM
how did I know you were gonna say lebron when I saw the title ;)

Because that's what the stats show. ;)

But seriously...that's why. Yes, I prefer LeBron to Kobe, but it's a lot easier to defend him when the stats back him up. Note: not a single Kobe supporter is using any stat here besides rings, which isn't a stat...and is a team achievement.

EDIT: And no, you are thinking with your heart, not brains. I'm not going to say anyone saying Kobe is wrong, because they aren't. But at least back it up with some substance. Yes, he has a ton of game winning shots, but he in all likelihood has more misses than anyone else too. Over a 5 year span up until before last season, he missed 75% of his game winning shot attempts :shrug:

CHANGO
01-11-2011, 06:07 PM
More so than everyone not named LeBron, yes. He is great at the last shot, and the whole 4th quarter in close games. LeBron, over the last 3 seasons, has shot more effectively, scored more points per 48 minutes, and posted far superior +/- per 48 minutes in clutch situations. But Kobe is definitely a clear #2 on those lists.

And more assists and rebounds. :)

D Roses Bulls
01-11-2011, 06:10 PM
Because that's what the stats show. ;)

But seriously...that's why. Yes, I prefer LeBron to Kobe, but it's a lot easier to defend him when the stats back him up. Note: not a single Kobe supporter is using any stat here besides rings, which isn't a stat...and is a team achievement.

No offense, but you really don't have to use stats to know that kobe is the best in the final seconds. I'm not even a fan of kobe and I know that. he's proved it whenever the game is on the line.

Aapox
01-11-2011, 06:11 PM
How about Paul Pierce?

shep33
01-11-2011, 06:13 PM
If its the last shot, I want Kobe... absolutely no question for me. I just think he and maybe Melo and Dirk are the only 3 players that can consistently score from anywhere on the court when the game is on the line.

D Roses Bulls
01-11-2011, 06:13 PM
How about Paul Pierce?

yeah, he is pretty damn clutch as well. they don't call him the truth for nothing.

Storch
01-11-2011, 06:13 PM
Because that's what the stats show. ;)

But seriously...that's why. Yes, I prefer LeBron to Kobe, but it's a lot easier to defend him when the stats back him up. Note: not a single Kobe supporter is using any stat here besides rings, which isn't a stat...and is a team achievement.

EDIT: And no, you are thinking with your heart, not brains. I'm not going to say anyone saying Kobe is wrong, because they aren't. But at least back it up with some substance. Yes, he has a ton of game winning shots, but he in all likelihood has more misses than anyone else too. Over a 5 year span up until before last season, he missed 75% of his game winning shot attempts :shrug:

Stats don't prove anything. Lebron has shot game winners against lesser teams in the SEASON. Kobe has done it over all-time greats and in the playoffs. It's a much greater feat, and put that in your stats.

kjoke
01-11-2011, 06:14 PM
the thing with kobe is that he makes the most memorable close game shots (such as the winner vs heat last year), not necessarily is more clutch

give me pierce for some reason, i always think hes gonna score at the buzzer

D Roses Bulls
01-11-2011, 06:15 PM
Stats don't prove anything. Lebron has shot game winners against lesser teams in the SEASON. Kobe has done it over all-time greats and in the playoffs. It's a much greater feat, and put that in your stats.

yeah, when they count stats, they don't take into consideration of the playoffs. it's a lot harder to hit a game winner in the playoffs then a regular season.

CostanzaNumba0
01-11-2011, 06:17 PM
pierce, ive seen it over and over and over again

D Roses Bulls
01-11-2011, 06:18 PM
besides what MJ has done, who else can really do what Kobe did right here? no one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACZnF87Iy84

ManRam
01-11-2011, 06:21 PM
Stats don't prove anything. Lebron has shot game winners against lesser teams in the SEASON. Kobe has done it over all-time greats and in the playoffs. It's a much greater feat, and put that in your stats.

Please back that up. Even if you did, you can't fault a player for a lesser competition level. Statistically, again, LeBron has been superior in the playoffs. 08-09 (http://www.82games.com/0809/playoffs/playoffs.htm), 07-08 (http://www.82games.com/0708/playoffs/playoffs.htm), 06-07 (http://www.82games.com/0607/playoffs/playoffs.htm)...last year's numbers were not posted.


No offense, but you really don't have to use stats to know that kobe is the best in the final seconds. I'm not even a fan of kobe and I know that. he's proved it whenever the game is on the line.

Okay, please back that up with something tangible and not opinion-based. That's all I'm asking. Again, these stats don't say that is necessarily the case...it certainly looks like LeBron has been just as clutch...and hasn't ever had the luxury of someone else taking attention off of him (Fisher, Horry, Shaq etc).

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

Scroll down for playoff stats. Again, I'm dying for an updated list, but that's all that is out there right now.

D Roses Bulls
01-11-2011, 06:28 PM
Please back that up. Even if you did, you can't fault a player for a lesser competition level. Statistically, again, LeBron has been superior in the playoffs. 08-09 (http://www.82games.com/0809/playoffs/playoffs.htm), 07-08 (http://www.82games.com/0708/playoffs/playoffs.htm), 06-07 (http://www.82games.com/0607/playoffs/playoffs.htm)...last year's numbers were not posted.



Okay, please back that up with something tangible and not opinion-based. That's all I'm asking. Again, these stats don't say that is necessarily the case...it certainly looks like LeBron has been just as clutch...and hasn't ever had the luxury of someone else taking attention off of him (Fisher, Horry, Shaq etc).

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

Scroll down for playoff stats. Again, I'm dying for an updated list, but that's all that is out there right now.

What does lebrons stats in the playoffs have anything to do with being clutch? if you wanna go by that then take into consideration lebron has had early exits unlike kobe who has been in the finals those last 3 years and has played more games all together and more minutes which of course is gonna affect his averages and are going to go down. besides, its not an opinion, Ive watched Kobe since he was drafted, Ive seen him hit a lot more game winners and in bigger situations then lebron.

rds1488
01-11-2011, 06:32 PM
Kobe, Wade, KD, Ray Allen....... Rose maybe

jon32
01-11-2011, 06:34 PM
Mr. Larry Bird.

As for today's players. Manu Ginobli, Melo, D-wayde, Paul Pierce and Chauncey scare me. Ray Allen from downtown is pretty good too.

ManRam
01-11-2011, 06:37 PM
What does lebrons stats in the playoffs have anything to do with being clutch? if you wanna go by that then take into consideration lebron has had early exits unlike kobe who has been in the finals those last 3 years and has played more games all together and more minutes which of course is gonna affect his averages and are going to go down. besides, its not an opinion, Ive watched Kobe since he was drafted, Ive seen him hit a lot more game winners and in bigger situations then lebron.

Can you quantitate that? Because until you do, it's opinion. I've seen as many dogs as I've seen human beings today, does that mean there are equal amounts in the world? (Yes, I haven't left the house, I'm sick as ****). No, it doesn't. There is an extreme amount of bias in both these situations. The fact is, LeBron has a higher FG% in game winning shots, and up until recent, he's made as many game winning playoff shots as Kobe, and at last count, attempted an equal number as well. That's as un-bias as you can make it. Determining what a "big" game winning shot is and what isn't is not at all scientific.

I only bring in playoff stats because people think he's not good in the playoffs, or that Kobe is just light years better. But between the overall numbers, the game winning shots made and missed, there isn't as much of a gap, individually. Team-wise, and in terms of team success, there is a huge gap...but looking at the two individuals, statistically, there isn't much separating Kobe from LeBron. I'm sorry if I value stats...I just know that someone's OPINION, when unsupported by facts, isn't going to sway my opinion. So instead, I delve into the statistical world...which does have telling power and can be tested factually.

And for the record, I've seen Kobe play since he was drafted too ;)

D Roses Bulls
01-11-2011, 06:48 PM
Can you quantitate that? Because until you do, it's opinion. I've seen as many dogs as I've seen human beings today, does that mean there are equal amounts in the world? (Yes, I haven't left the house, I'm sick as ****). No, it doesn't. There is an extreme amount of bias in both these situations. The fact is, LeBron has a higher FG% in game winning shots, and up until recent, he's made as many game winning playoff shots as Kobe, and at last count, attempted an equal number as well. That's as un-bias as you can make it. Determining what a "big" game winning shot is and what isn't is not at all scientific.

I only bring in playoff stats because people think he's not good in the playoffs, or that Kobe is just light years better. But between the overall numbers, the game winning shots made and missed, there isn't as much of a gap, individually. Team-wise, and in terms of team success, there is a huge gap...but looking at the two individuals, statistically, there isn't much separating Kobe from LeBron.

And for the record, I've seen Kobe play since he was drafted too ;)

I haven't looked at the stats on how many game winners in the playoffs kobe has, but I do know lebron has two in the 8 years he has been in the league. 5 overall according to this video 10 months ago http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU2N0q6iSHk and I dont know if he has any since then, I dont think he has had any since being with miami. also take into consideration if kobe does have the same amount of playoff winners as lebron that kobe also played with two of the best last second shot makers history in horry and fisher. so if lebron has had 5 game winners since he has been in the NBA, how many does kobe have? how many has kobe taken to what lebron has taken? sorry give me kobe over lebron any day of the week when the game is on the line.

GREATNESS ONE
01-11-2011, 06:51 PM
Glad you waited 5 years to finally participate..lol

bahahahaah that was hillarious

MrfadeawayJB
01-11-2011, 07:01 PM
Robert Horry or Mike James lol and of course Derek Fisher, dude is the most clutch average player i have ever seen

ManRam
01-11-2011, 07:08 PM
I haven't looked at the stats on how many game winners in the playoffs kobe has, but I do know lebron has two in the 8 years he has been in the league. 5 overall according to this video 10 months ago http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU2N0q6iSHk and I dont know if he has any since then, I dont think he has had any since being with miami. also take into consideration if kobe does have the same amount of playoff winners as lebron that kobe also played with two of the best last second shot makers history in horry and fisher. so if lebron has had 5 game winners since he has been in the NBA, how many does kobe have? how many has kobe taken to what lebron has taken? sorry give me kobe over lebron any day of the week when the game is on the line.

That video has missed a bunch of them. Up until this season, LeBron has made at least 17 in his career. Also, I feel having Fisher and Horry on his team helps him. In closing minutes with Cleveland, defenses focus on one person, and one person only. At least Kobe has had someone else teams have had to pay attention too. The argument of having those guys guys both ways.

Again, from 03-09 (http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm)...


LeBron James was just 4-19 in our previous look at game winning shots, so in the ensuing two and a half seasons, he has come up with a very respectable 13-31 (.419) record and just the other day had a pure game winner at the buzzer to top the Warriors. In addition he has six assists and a healthy number of free throws earned.

Vince Carter doesn't get a lot of love from fans for the most part but is actually #2 in the standings for most game winners over this period.

Ray Allen is in third overall but also leads in most 3's made under our game winning defined situation specifics, with eight three pointers. Long live the NBA's arguably best pure shooter (Ray also currently leads the NBA in Midrange 2pt FG%).

...and then we get to Kobe Bryant. Kobe fans don't like to hear it, but while their man is #4 in the league in total game winners hit, he holds the top spot in a less glamorous category: most game winning opportunity missed shots!

42 - Kobe
35 - Vince Carter
33 - Joe Johnson, LeBron
32 - Crawford
31 - Billups

Now we're not Kobe haters by any means and I will readily give him his due as one of the best NBA players (note however, I didn't say the best) but he certainly has an overblown reputation when it comes to the clutch shot: people remember the ones he hits, but not the ones he misses, and heck you think a 56 FGA to 1 assist ratio might be part of the problem? He does have a better record in the playoffs though, which we'll get to down below.

Carmelo Anthony has slipped from the former top spot, but still a worthy challenger with the best fg% of any player with at least 10 makes.

Beyond that, you see a lot of familiar names, most with low success rates, and a lot of players with very low assists.

Paul Pierce is an exception as he stands at the head of the class for 'game winning assists' with nine, ahead of Nash, Kidd, Billups, and the rest.

That's one of the best basketball statistic site's words, not mine.

Htownballa1622
01-11-2011, 07:10 PM
The refs scare me the most.I'm a houston fan.

OnslaughtXX6
01-11-2011, 07:13 PM
lol kobe
let me explain
hes better.

failfailfailfailfail

D Roses Bulls
01-11-2011, 07:13 PM
That video has missed a bunch of them. Up until this season, LeBron has made at least 17 in his career. Also, I feel having Fisher and Horry on his team helps him. In closing minutes with Cleveland, defenses focus on one person, and one person only. At least Kobe has had someone else teams have had to pay attention too. The argument of having those guys guys both ways.

Again, from 03-09 (http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm)...



That's one of the best basketball statistic site's words, not mine.

I wanna see the other videos then, I mean I don't doubt it, but I would like to see them cause I didn't find another video with another game winner besides the videos that were in the video and the poster said "all of lebrons winners so far" but sorry, no matter what stats which you should know i dont always go by stats that I won't take anyone else in the game to take a last shot then kobe, maybe as someone else said, pierce.

I will say though that he did have a game tying 3 in the 04-05 season cause I was at that game vs the bulls, but besides that, I dont remember any others.

ManRam
01-11-2011, 07:17 PM
I wanna see the other videos then, I mean I don't doubt it, but I would like to see them cause I didn't find another video with another game winner besides the videos that were in the video and the poster said "all of lebrons winners so far" but sorry, no matter what stats which you should know i dont always go by stats that I won't take anyone else in the game to take a last shot then kobe, maybe as someone else said, pierce.

I will say though that he did have a game tying 3 in the 04-05 season cause I was at that game vs the bulls, but besides that, I dont remember any others.

Here's a good start. Even you listed one that isn't on there...but we can definitely bump that number up closer to the 17 number that 82games.com says is the case (and again, they are a very reputable site, no reason to doubt their stats).


Mar. 22, 2006: Cavaliers 120 - Bobcats 118 (jumper over Jumaine Jones w/ 0.9 secs)

April 10, 2006: Cavaliers 103 - Hornets 101 (jumper over Desmond Mason w/ 0.5 secs)

April 28, 2006: Cavaliers 97 - Wizards 96 (PO, bank-shot over Mike Ruffin w/ 5 secs)

May 03, 2006: Cavaliers 121 - Wizards 120 (PO, layup w/ 0.9 secs)

May 31, 2007: Cavaliers 109 - Pistons 107 (PO, layup w/ 2.2 secs)

Jan. 17, 2008: Cavaliers 90 - Spurs 88 (layup w/ 33.6 secs)

Jan. 30, 2008: Cavaliers 84 - TrailBlazers 83 (layup w/ 0.9 secs)

Feb. 22, 2008: Cavaliers 90 - Wizards 89 (game-winning FTs w/ 7.8 secs)

Jan. 23, 2009: Cavaliers 106 - Warriors 105 (buzzer-beater, jumper over Ronnie Turiaf)

Mar. 01, 2009: Cavaliers 88 - Hawks 87 (game-winning FT w/ 1.6 secs)

May 22, 2009: Cavaliers 96 - Magic 95 (PO buzzer-beater, 3-pointer over Hedo Turkolgu)

Jan. 25, 2010: Cavaliers 92 - Heat 91 (game-winning FT w/ 4.1 secs)

Add the game winner he made verse the Nets his rookie year too.

WizFan3
01-11-2011, 07:22 PM
neither its gilbert

knicks4life33
01-11-2011, 07:30 PM
Kobe bryant !!!!! Should there really be a discussion wow and if there is you know nothing about basketball!!! Down bye 1 with 5 seconds left ?? You go to kobe bryant lol lets get serious . This thread is a joke with the other anwsers im hearing

LayZbone
01-11-2011, 09:12 PM
Kobe for the last shot. Lebron of you're down 7 with two minutes left. Ray if you need a three. Melo and dirk are safe options too...as are manu, wade and pierce.

That's a great answer. For me, personally, if we're talking about 1 player who scares me the most in clutch situations, it's Ray Allen. When he releases a 3 in the last minute of a game that's up for grabs....I'm always scared it's gonna drop.

hugepatsfan
01-11-2011, 09:18 PM
Kobe scares me the most.

John Walls Era
01-11-2011, 09:38 PM
Kobe scares me the most. He does miss game winners, but I actually don't remember any. TBH I don't know why teams don't send 3 guys at him... he never passes in those situations.

rickshaw
01-11-2011, 09:42 PM
I fear the guy with 5 rings and the guy who wants to take the last shot. I have seen lebron pass up many of shots to win the game. Kobe not so much.

Yeah I'd rather have the guy who takes a fadeaway over 2 defenders instead of passing to the open man too

GREATNESS ONE
01-11-2011, 09:47 PM
Game winners their's only 3-4 players in the league that scare me, whom will be able to make almost any shot they take/creating them.

1. Kobe
2.Pierce
3.Wade
4.Durant

the others Manu,Melo,Bron,Nowitzki,Allen they all can but those top 4 I think can make almost any shot taken/created.

kobe24>lebron23
01-11-2011, 11:05 PM
this isn't 2005....Kobe hasn't been clutch for 4 years now. Most clutch Laker is Derek Fisher, ask Phil who he will rather have the ball, Kobe or Fisher.

Hhahah oh child lol i guess kobes 5-6 buzzer beaters last year and 7-8 gane winning shots arent clutch... Take a seat lebron lover(who puts a picture of lebrons cake as there sig lol)

kobe24>lebron23
01-11-2011, 11:10 PM
where you in 04 when kobe cause da lakers to lose series against da pistons trying very HARD to be like MIKE stinking up da courts with bricks after bricks leading to a 4-1 championship victory for da pistons and coach jackson calling kobe uncoachable after da game than wrote a book disrespecting kobe? or the fallowing year when da lakers with kobe (no coach jackson that year cause he had retired) a kobe laker didnt even make the playoffs they won like 30 games that year and how about when da laker with a fresh young andrew they had da suns 3-1 or 4-1 (i think) and da suns came back to win da series with no amare.. kobe again suffering from jordanitist blew the whole series in the last game in da 4th qtr he was shooting blanks not sharing da rock causing the lakers to lose da series...KOBE SUCKS!!! and he always has been overrated playing on stud teams with his fake WILL to win ratface self he aint NOTHING but a watered down wanna be mike

This guy should get banned for hating kobe so much(what has kobe ever done to you?)

And i dont hate lebron i just dont like him i respect him as a player not as a person

justinnum1
01-11-2011, 11:22 PM
This guy should get banned for hating kobe so much(what has kobe ever done to you?)

And i dont hate lebron i just dont like him i respect him as a player not as a person

:laugh: of course you don't
:rolleyes:

kobe24>lebron23
01-11-2011, 11:27 PM
:laugh: of course you don't
:rolleyes:

Seriously i dont just Cuz i think kobes better doesnt mean i hate him...

Once again i dont hate lebron i hate cocky lebron james fans!

Hawkeye15
01-11-2011, 11:28 PM
Seriously i dont just Cuz i think kobes better doesnt mean i hate him...

Once again i dont hate lebron i hate cocky lebron james fans!

look at your name. What are you?
answer: a cocky Kobe fan

D Roses Bulls
01-11-2011, 11:31 PM
look at your name. What are you?
answer: a cocky Kobe fan

come on hawkeye...... :no:

Hellcrooner
01-11-2011, 11:33 PM
Game on the line:Who do you fear Most????

Mr Donaghy

jasonbird
01-12-2011, 09:54 PM
I fear the guy with 5 rings and the guy who wants to take the last shot. I have seen lebron pass up many of shots to win the game. Kobe not so much.

LBJ,no doubt!

lakeshow3peat
01-12-2011, 10:20 PM
kobe byrant gots more experienced in clutch and in playoffs which i think is where kobe bryant fits most in this topic as clutch player . what bout his teammate D Fisher i think he is number 2 not just cause he is a lakers but he hits clutch shots in the playoffs when it matters most . Then third is lebron teammate D wade so there ya go hit me with stats and your reasons cause that dont matter . Clutch is when your team needs that shot going in or best chance and 5 time champ cant second guess passing him the ball or being afraid of losing

Hawkeye15
01-12-2011, 10:36 PM
come on hawkeye...... :no:

should I change the first line to: look at your post archive, and then have the 2nd line? Better?

SDSUJacks
01-12-2011, 10:42 PM
D Fish, Kobe, Wade, KD, Timmy D

GSP
01-12-2011, 10:57 PM
Kobe .. pls end this thread this is not even a relevant discussion. You ask any expert and he will say Kobe. Btw I am not a lakers fan but i do appreciate #24's game skilled by far no bunny hops (LBJ), finess player rather than brute force, and much better jump shot.... most importantly proven many many times.... Go Warriors !!

el_primo_nano
01-12-2011, 11:14 PM
I would say Robert Horry, but between Kobe and Bron I would triple team Kobe, and take my chances on Lebron

AIRMAR72
01-13-2011, 12:20 AM
AirMar72....hahaha first of Shaq lost that series against Detroit for us and the fact that Malone was injured also...Kobe kept them from being swept. You say he was ballhoggin or what not but still averaged 5 assists per game....smh! Dude do you even watch the games or do you get on the internet and watch highlights??? More importantly are you even an athlete or coach of any sort??? Cause if you were ever a athlete, that aleast decent in any sport then you will know what it is like to be competetive and to do anything possible not to lose...Honestly would you rather have Kobe shooting the ball or having Kwame Brown and Smush Parker trying to will your team to victories???? And you bash him for having a losing record?? If Kobe wasnt on those teams we would have easily been a #1 or #2 pick in the lottery. So sorry man to hurt your feelings with some truthful facts, but i have heard enough nonsense in one day. hey wallerstud05..yes ima athlete and another thing I WAS THERE all 5games but i cant tell who i am and these are facts shaq hasnt been the same force during his orlando days and after wining the 1st 2titles for da laker franches it wasnt all shaq fault the ball dont touch his hands till he gets near the paint pistons played the lakers straight up man ben wallace and elden campbell(former laker) sheed did there job shaq was kicking da ball out when he had nothing once it touches kobe hands we all know what happens kobe shot 43% and those 25 avarge are 1st half points he did NOTHING in da 4qtr when da team needed him SO WHAT malone was hurt they had other capable players brain cook and DA glove(gary payton) kobe like in most case is not smart enuff to play team winning ball(poor IQ in his early days) even tho hes doing alot better these days compare to olskool kobe) because in his mind he really thinks to his self especally back than that he was MIKE trying to mark his WILL and failed tayshuan prince shut,em down all by him self using his extra super long arms (and just to let you know tayshaun cant guard wade or bron but he sure knows how to play kobe) WADE and BRON wouldve done better with that laker team

MagicBucsSox
01-13-2011, 12:34 AM
paul pierce is the most clutch player by far

BSplaya2121
01-13-2011, 12:37 AM
I think a guy like Deron Williams scares me, with that x-over. I have also seen him hit a game winner against the Knicks a couple times, or at least clutch shots.

AIRMAR72
01-13-2011, 12:44 AM
This guy should get banned for hating kobe so much(what has kobe ever done to you?)

And i dont hate lebron i just dont like him i respect him as a player not as a person
because i remeber when he first came in da league with all this hype back in 96 and he pulled a eli manning (not wanting to play for da team who drafted him) he ended up riding the bench for 2yrs never really live up to da hype thats why he surrounded with studs plus ive been around him more than several times if knew him in the real world you know wut im talking about.. when i call him fake

rickshaw
01-13-2011, 12:50 AM
It's gotta be Kobe. he has proved it time and time again. no one else even comes close in the NBA



yeah, I'm not even a fan of kobe, but no one comes close to kobe when it comes down to clutch and especially the last shot. people are thinking with their hearts, more then their head.


yes, you are

Hawkeye15
01-13-2011, 12:53 AM
I think a guy like Deron Williams scares me, with that x-over. I have also seen him hit a game winner against the Knicks a couple times, or at least clutch shots.

Deron has actually not been great in late game situations over time, and his high crossover, which he pounds into the ground, is what continues to kill him in comparisons with the best, because DWill turns it over at a higher rate when using that move than a change of pace move like CP3, or Rondo.

JayW_1023
01-13-2011, 04:41 AM
Derek Fisher. Seriously...that guy always turns it on when it matters. Ugh.