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View Full Version : What is your definition of a true point guard?



drew35
01-10-2011, 01:53 AM
topic

Sactown
01-10-2011, 02:00 AM
Tyreke!

thekmp211
01-10-2011, 02:02 AM
primary ball handler, runs majority of the plays and is the guy who gets his teammates the ball where they like it. should be able to stretch the floor out to the three-point line, but the main thing is running the show.

blueplanet
01-10-2011, 02:03 AM
Rajon Rondo, Steve Nash, Chris Paul.

cargobox
01-10-2011, 02:05 AM
Main purpose is to give assists and make plays.

pd1dish
01-10-2011, 02:08 AM
a pass first, score second type of guy. a true point guard has to have the ability to get his teammates involved and make plays for the guys around him while creating for himself. i think that steve nash is the closest to a true point guard currently in the nba. rondo is pretty close also.

RZZZA
01-10-2011, 02:10 AM
a guy who guards points. That means knowing when the time is right to score, and knowing when the time is right to pass it off.

Draco
01-10-2011, 02:20 AM
Rosen's take


Q: I believe point guards are born not made. If I'm wrong, who are the current players not natural point guards that learned to play the position? -- Damon Peden, Lincoln, CA

A: There’s no hard and fast rule here, but to answer your question, these are the current players who have successfully made the transition from shoot-first to pass-first points guards: Mike Bibby, Chauncey Billups, Jameer Nelson, Tony Parker and Deron Williams.

Non-points still climbing the slope of their learning curve are: Carlos Arroyo, Jerryd Bayless, Aaron Brooks, Toney Douglas, Goran Dragic, Tyreke Evans, Jordan Farmar, Brandon Jennings, Nate Robinson, Derrick Rose, Rodney Stuckey, Russell Westbrook, Louis Williams, J. J.Barea, Will Bynum, Mario Chalmers, and George Hill.

Guys who have never achieved a complete makeover include Gilbert Arenas, Leandro Barbosa, Baron Davis, Daniel Gibson, Ben Gordon, Willie Green, Devin Harris, Luther Head, Eddie House, Beno Udrih, Mo Williams, D. J. Augustin, and Steve Blake.

Just to complete the survey, the natural points are Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Luke Ridnour, Rajon Rondo, Mike Conley, Darren Collison, Raymond Felton, T. J. Ford, Eric Maynor, Andre Miller, Ramon Sessions and Sebastian Telfair.

It should be noted that the players’ respective talent (or lack thereof) does not figure into the above categorizing.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/washington-wizards-john-wall-a-star-in-making-charley-rosen-rants-and-raves-120810

Sadds The Gr8
01-10-2011, 02:23 AM
Rosen's take


http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/washington-wizards-john-wall-a-star-in-making-charley-rosen-rants-and-raves-120810

agree with that except T.J. Ford is NOT a true PG.

Hawkeye15
01-10-2011, 02:38 AM
it all depends on team need

CHANGO
01-10-2011, 02:39 AM
Jason Kidd, Chris Paul.

Kyben36
01-10-2011, 02:44 AM
I dont like the idea of a PG,in fact, im not a big fan of possisions in general. Andrea Bargnani plays like a SG, but is labled a C becuase of his hight, for the most part, possisions are named becuase of size, which I dont understand. as far as a true Point guard, I consider it this way. Its the person ( not possision wise ) that runs the offense though, that gets both himself and teamates invoved in the game. a PG is not just the shortest guy on the floor and the guy who dribbles up the ball. IMO, a guy like Hedo Turkaglu could be considered a PG. while, he isnt the shortest player on the floor like usual. he is a guy who can create for himself and for others, of course there are other players. Leborn, wade, Kobe, but I hate defining PG as the guy who brings the ball up the floor like most teams do. I guese its becuase for the most part, short guys work on their ball handling more than bigs, becuase bigs work on post skills more. if there was a 7 footer who could handle the ball like steve nash, drible the ball up the court, what possision do you think we would lable him as.

HoopsDrive
01-10-2011, 02:51 AM
TJ Ford is not a natural point. Calderon is.

Catoblepas
01-10-2011, 03:14 AM
A true PG of course should look to pass over getting their own..but executing plays, controlling game tempo ,and limiting Turnovers are what makes the best the best.. I would have to say Chauncey was a great example of one during the 03-06 years in Detroit.. Larry Browns coaching really helped the guy become what we see now.

ElMarroAfamado
01-10-2011, 03:28 AM
Chris Paul.....

Crackadalic
01-10-2011, 03:31 AM
primary ball handler, runs majority of the plays and is the guy who gets his teammates the ball where they like it. should be able to stretch the floor out to the three-point line, but the main thing is running the show.

This

Bullsfan22
01-10-2011, 03:33 AM
Quarterback. A true point is not neccessairly a pass first point guard. It's a player that dictates the pace of the game, and deciphers what is best for the team at a given moment.

Take Peyton Manning for example when you watch him play he's always the GENERAL of the field. When he sees 7 men in the box he audibles to a run play or check down play without hesitation(willing passer) more Importantly doing what's best for your team. On the other hand if he sees a safety showing blitz he also won't hesitate to be aggressive and take a shot down field(willing to score and put matters in his own hands).

I think talented scoring point guards can be considered true pg's depending on the roster and how much there scoring abilities is meant to their team. Even the obvious "true point guards" of the leagues past and present like: Isiah, Magic,Stockton, Kidd, Nash, Rondo and Billups could have put up higher point totals and probably could have been some of the best scorers in the league but they all adjusted their games to suit their teams needs.

A true point guard is a quarterback, chameleon and a master of pace and timing.

Or if you want an easy answer? see players like 03-04 Billups ,Magic,Stockton, Rondo(ew),nash..

stawka
01-10-2011, 04:39 AM
The little guy who creates plays for others, runs the offense to perfection - Nash, CP3, Rondo, D-Will

Basically has the ball on his hands on offense, and sets up plays for others before himself

boozdawg
01-10-2011, 04:41 AM
d rose

LA_Raiders
01-10-2011, 04:47 AM
CP3 and JKidd

abe_froman
01-10-2011, 04:51 AM
a guy who plays the pg position.

if your looking for stylistically speaking? there is no such thing,there's just too many wide and varied styles of pg play and none are bad or wrong,just different

PennyMy#1
01-10-2011, 08:24 AM
John Stockton. Period.

Evolution23
01-10-2011, 08:57 AM
True: Chris Paul, Williams, Nash, Rondo, Felton
False: Monte Ellis, Nate Robinson, Rose,

beardown78
01-10-2011, 09:57 AM
True: Chris Paul, Williams, Nash, Rondo, Felton
False: Monte Ellis, Nate Robinson, Rose,

LMAO at Rose being false dropping 24,8 and 4. I'll take that any day outta the week from a 22 year old allstar point guard whos getting MVP consideration at the least. I like Raymond Felton and hope he gets into the allstar game cause he's deserving IMO.

beardown78
01-10-2011, 10:05 AM
The rules of the game has changed alot with the no hand checking rule allowing the new breed of point guard to be coveted, ala Rose,Jennings,Wall,Williams ,Paul etc just to name A few. Teams are now looking for exposive point men to run the show. I dont think you can classify the point guard position as saying a point guard has to play a particular way in order to be considered a "true point guard". I am A Bulls fan but I love Rondos game just like I love watching Raymond Felton play in the Knicks up tempo attack. Rose is the perfect pg to lead the Bulls attack just like Rondo's skill set is tailor made for the Celtics attack.

Kashmir13579
01-10-2011, 10:34 AM
steve nash

Swashcuff
01-10-2011, 10:34 AM
A true point guard runs the offense and watches the back-court. This player needs to be, quick, strong in transitions, a good passer, an excellent both-hand dribbler, able to read defenses, able to take the ball to the basket or dish it off, an unselfish player, can consistently score both jump shots and free throws (Rondo being the exception to this rule) and a LEADER.

Of all of these qualities, leadership is perhaps is the most important characteristic of a point guard. They must be able to inspire their teammates, be passionate on the floor, take control of a game and want the ball in pressure situations.

Not because a player is a score first player that means he is not a PG that doesn't even mean he's not a natural PG as a matter of a fact he's more uncommon than the natural PG (well at least in years gone by not really the case now however) but I'd take this type of PG any day of the week. I mean if you look throughout history the only PGs that were able to lead their respective teams to a championship (when I say lead I don't just mean run the offense I mean LEAD eg Chauncey, Parker, Isaiah, Magic) were able to do their most damage with not just passing but scoring.

Like hawkeye said of course it depends on the team. Chris Paul is of a very special breed however. He is the type of PG that now matter what the team he's going to impact the game in every way possible. He's the closest thing we have to a perfect PG in the NBA. There may be a debate to whether or not he's the best PG but across the board for any team he may indeed be the best fit.

Kashmir13579
01-10-2011, 10:35 AM
True: Chris Paul, Williams, Nash, Rondo, Felton
False: Monte Ellis, Nate Robinson, Rose,

Why does Felton make the list over Rose? Hate Rose but i don't think there is much merit to that.

DitchDat
01-10-2011, 10:57 AM
guy on the team that knows when to attack and know when to defer, and that doesn't decide on plays before the defense commits. Runs the show, and gets his team mates going. You also want him to be a good defender that disrupts the offense of the other team.

tonyd3b54
01-10-2011, 11:09 AM
Quarterback. A true point is not neccessairly a pass first point guard. It's a player that dictates the pace of the game, and deciphers what is best for the team at a given moment.

Take Peyton Manning for example when you watch him play he's always the GENERAL of the field. When he sees 7 men in the box he audibles to a run play or check down play without hesitation(willing passer) more Importantly doing what's best for your team. On the other hand if he sees a safety showing blitz he also won't hesitate to be aggressive and take a shot down field(willing to score and put matters in his own hands).

I think talented scoring point guards can be considered true pg's depending on the roster and how much there scoring abilities is meant to their team. Even the obvious "true point guards" of the leagues past and present like: Isiah, Magic,Stockton, Kidd, Nash, Rondo and Billups could have put up higher point totals and probably could have been some of the best scorers in the league but they all adjusted their games to suit their teams needs.

A true point guard is a quarterback, chameleon and a master of pace and timing.

Or if you want an easy answer? see players like 03-04 Billups ,Magic,Stockton, Rondo(ew),nash..

i am very surprised to see a bulls fan say this and give you props for recognizing this...

The Smurf
01-10-2011, 11:15 AM
Why does Felton make the list over Rose? Hate Rose but i don't think there is much merit to that.

Because when Rose scores in makes him a worse pg. This whole discussion is stupid and is basically filled with b-ball fans who are basically regurgatating a basketball for dummies version of what a point guard is. A point guard is the engine for any team's offense. Whether you are a failitator or a scorer is somewhat irrelivant. A pg is the guy who runs the offense, nothing more/ nothing less.

The whole arguement that a guy needs to be a pass first player as a pg is silly. You have to do what is needed to win games.

PhillyFaninLA
01-10-2011, 11:34 AM
Natural leader with an extremely high basketball IQ, great natural feel and instincts for the game, all heart, passion, and hard work, gritty, tough as steel, athletic enough to do whatever needs to be done to set the offense, consistency, strong defense, ability to move with the ball enough to get a shot or pass the ball, great passer, and lastly unselfish.

JayW_1023
01-10-2011, 11:36 AM
John Stockton. Jason Kidd. Steve Nash. Nowadays, Rajon Rondo.


Stockton is the prototypical PG to me.

b_russ
01-10-2011, 11:48 AM
see John Stockton

xbrackattackx
01-10-2011, 11:49 AM
Stockton, Magic and Nash.

Cool007
01-10-2011, 11:57 AM
My ideal PG is the one who will do everything for the team.

He looks at the team, the situation, etc and thrive. Rose is my guy.

If his team has players that can score and/or are shooting well, I want him to pass the ball, play defense and find the hot guy(s): 10points 12+ assists 4+rebounds (Rose when team has players shooting well, scoring well etc)

If his team has players that are cold in that game and are not shooting too well, then I want him to balance scoring as well as passing to win the game. (Rose when people are scoring/shooting good enough - 18 points 10 assists 4+rebounds)

If his team has players that are not good at scoring, shooting other than 1 or 2 and team is struggling, falls behind, then I want him going in scoring mode and single handedly win the game. (Rose - 30+ points 4+rebounds 6+assists).


This is why I call that PG - not Point Guard but a POINT GOD.

He does what his team needs - scoring/passing/rebounding/defense/clutch put the team on his back/etc)

Chi StateOfMind
01-10-2011, 12:11 PM
Rondo

Minimal
01-10-2011, 02:56 PM
John Stockton.

And from our era: Chris Paul, Rajon Rondo, Steve Nash

RZZZA
01-10-2011, 02:57 PM
This whole discussion is stupid and is basically filled with b-ball fans who are basically regurgatating a basketball for dummies version of what a point guard is. A point guard is the engine for any team's offense. Whether you are a failitator or a scorer is somewhat irrelivant. A pg is the guy who runs the offense, nothing more/ nothing less.

The whole arguement that a guy needs to be a pass first player as a pg is silly. You have to do what is needed to win games.

:clap:

I agree

AIRMAR72
01-10-2011, 03:38 PM
Rajon Rondo, Steve Nash, Chris Paul.

YUP!! i agree

AIRMAR72
01-10-2011, 03:42 PM
Stockton, Magic and Nash.
you pick should be derek fisher and kobe lol... kobe im open!!!!

Evolution23
01-10-2011, 05:32 PM
Why does Felton make the list over Rose? Hate Rose but i don't think there is much merit to that.

I feel like Felton is a better POINT GUARD but Rose is a better player. There no denying Rose is a superstar but I dont think he's a true point guard because he do looks to shoot first before making the pass.

Evolution23
01-10-2011, 05:35 PM
Because when Rose scores in makes him a worse pg. This whole discussion is stupid and is basically filled with b-ball fans who are basically regurgatating a basketball for dummies version of what a point guard is. A point guard is the engine for any team's offense. Whether you are a failitator or a scorer is somewhat irrelivant. A pg is the guy who runs the offense, nothing more/ nothing less.

The whole arguement that a guy needs to be a pass first player as a pg is silly. You have to do what is needed to win games.

Running an offense means making your teamates better and knowing when to score and when to pass. I Think thats one aspect of Rose's game he needs to improve on., We all know he can score at will with his quickness and athletic ability. The next step is facilitating the ball better and playing better D.

Hellcrooner
01-10-2011, 05:42 PM
Jason Kidd, Jose Calderon, Steve nash those are true point guards......a dying breed unfotunately.

Pass first, organize the attack, think , lead.

xxcubs22xx
01-10-2011, 06:26 PM
Running an offense means making your teamates better and knowing when to score and when to pass. I Think thats one aspect of Rose's game he needs to improve on., We all know he can score at will with his quickness and athletic ability. The next step is facilitating the ball better and playing better D.

D rose is 8th in the league in assists and assists per game. People who watch Rose will agree with me when I say that he has developed his game and been a better passer this year. It boggles my mind when I read people saying Rose isn't a true pg. Here's a memo; watch him play. D Rose is becoming a true PG.

Swashcuff
01-10-2011, 06:31 PM
D rose is 8th in the league in assists and assists per game. People who watch Rose will agree with me when I say that he has developed his game and been a better passer this year. It boggles my mind when I read people saying Rose isn't a true pg. Here's a memo; watch him play. D Rose is becoming a true PG.

You know you just contradicted yourself right.

I agree that he is certainly becoming one however.

HEY!!
01-10-2011, 10:17 PM
i would say prime Jason Kidd because he was one of the best shooting point guard, he was always the play maker, racked up crazy assist, and could even grab a decent amount of boards, he also knew his team mates well and has a very high basketball IQ

benzni
01-10-2011, 10:42 PM
magic johnson

thekmp211
01-10-2011, 10:51 PM
i would say prime Jason Kidd because he was one of the worst shooting point guard, he was always the play maker, racked up crazy assist, and could even grab a ton of boards, he also knew his team mates well and has a very high basketball IQ

fixed

Bornknick73
01-11-2011, 12:11 AM
Jason Kidd
Chris Paul
Rajon Rondo
John Stockton

4 pure PGs. Pass first, shoot second. These guys live and breath for a Dime. These guys could play for any team using any offensive system. You arent taught to pass.....youre born to pass.

thebet
01-11-2011, 10:03 PM
Umm... I would like to point out that there is no such thing as a "true point guard." That term is highly speculative. If Derrick Rose, an apparently FAKE PG, puts up: 24.3 ppg,
8.1 apg and 4.5 rpg and up for MVP consideration... then I would take FAKE over "true," any day. Thank you.

ManRam
01-11-2011, 10:26 PM
I don't think there is such a thing. It all depends on the team they're on and the role needed from the PG. I have such a ****ed up opinion on PGs...in fact, I don't know how I stand on them.

I am a huge Jameer fan, that's as obvious as it is that the sun will rise tomorrow. He is not a pass-first PG, but I think that for our system, that's fine. We have guys who are better with the ball in their hands than without it. We have a bunch of shooters that can better get open when the ball is moving around as a team effort, not just by one player creating everything. Rondo is a far superior all-around PG, but I don't know how well he'd succeed in our system. I know Jameer wouldn't fit into Boston's too well. Jameer is a "true" PG in our system (I believe) because he does what we need out of our PG.

I also think that pass-first PGs aren't as important as some people make them out to be. Look at the last 20-25 or so NBA champions. Besides Isiah and Rondo, none of them had pass-first PGs. They all had basically score-first PGs, or solid all-around PGs.

Chauncey (5.56 APG career), Fisher (3.18), Tony Parker (5.71 APG), J-Will (5.9) whoever the Bulls had at PG (they usually didn't actually have anyone that you'd consider a PG), Kenny Smith (5.5) etc. all were just average passers. Even if you look at their playoff stats, their assist totals were not too high. Wing play makers and big men are far more important. Isiah was a great passer, but he also was their most important scorer. None of these guys are in the top 60 or so of all time in APG. Rondo is the only true "pass-first" point guard to win it in a long time.

You look at the great passing PGs, besides Magic and Isiah (both were elite scorers as well), how many of them have won a championship? No Stockton, not Paul, not Kidd, not Kevin Johnson, not Deron, not Nash, not Tim Hardaway, not Mark Jackson, and so on...

But again, it depends on the system. For my team, I need my PG to be able to make threes, he needs to be able to get to the rim, he needs to be able to defend well, but not necessarily at an elite level because of Dwight (just keep a hand in shooters' faces), and he needs to be unselfish. He doesn't need to create everything all the time. He doesn't need to be dishing out 10-12 assists a game. He needs to play within the flow of the offense, not be the flow of the offense. Take the shot when it's there, pass it when it's not.

Sorry for the essay, I kind of was just thinking this outloud that I haven't thought about before...I guess I just established how I really feel.

Kakaroach
01-11-2011, 10:34 PM
Can I just agree with ManRam on every post?

If not, I think John Stockton is the picture perfect definition as well.

True Blue
01-11-2011, 10:47 PM
Raymond Felton

goose15
01-11-2011, 11:01 PM
John Stockton is the definition

Hellcrooner
01-11-2011, 11:37 PM
Small intelligent unselfish guy that decides what the best play is and tries to pass the ball to the man with the best position to score and sometimes decided that maybe he is the one that has to shoot.
He is a link to the coach and responsible to transmit the order to the team.
has to think in teams benefit always and never into personal benefit.

A dying breed.

The Smurf
01-12-2011, 12:54 AM
How can John Stockton be the definition of the perfect pg? Stockton is one of my favorite players all time and one of the best pgs ever (top 3 in my opinion), but one player can not define a position. Not to make this a DRose arguement, but when posters say a pg needs to know when to pass and when to shoot they are describing DRose's situation. DRose needs to shoot more than any other pg who is top 10 in the NBA in assists. DRose is doing what needs to be done for the Bulls to win. They dont have a shooting guard or anyone else who can take the ball to the basket.

jasonbird
01-12-2011, 09:47 PM
Why not Derick Rose or CP3?

cheetos185
01-12-2011, 09:51 PM
topic

can shoot half court 3pters
dunk on 7ft centers
takes only 5 shots but score 30 ppg
20 ast per game
grab 10rebs per game
block 2-3 times per game
also average 10 fouls per game

:p