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View Full Version : Is a player improving if his per game stats are better but his advanced stats arent?



Sadds The Gr8
01-09-2011, 11:54 PM
I've seen this argument time-to-time on different threads, and thought I might make my own thread about it.

So basically, is a player improving if his per game stats are improving, but his advanced stats/efficiency aren't? For example, a player like Mike Beasley has made big improvements in his PPG, but some people say he hasn't improved because he hasn't raised his advanced stats/efficiency. Another example is Andrea Bargnani. He has raised his PPG alot, but he hasn't raised his advanced stats. People use the argument saying that all those 2 players did was get more shots to raise their PPG, therefore they aren't improving. On the counter-side though, you can say that the player is gaining valuable experience, confidence, and are doing all they can to help their teams. I can see both sides of the argument, but i'm leaning more toward the "are improving" side. What do you guys think?

lakers4sho
01-10-2011, 12:26 AM
A lot of factors can account for per game changes, such as pace. Advanced stats usually take these factors into account.

Kashmir13579
01-10-2011, 12:57 AM
depends on minutes played and shot attempts.

What?
01-10-2011, 12:58 AM
I think it should be looked at more from a person to person account but if I had to give a answer no

kArSoN RyDaH
01-10-2011, 12:58 AM
No.

sargon21
01-10-2011, 01:04 AM
Well, if a player is avg. 24 on a certain efficiency and then goes on to avg. 28 at the same efficiency, I would say that player improved because they learned how to produce more :shrug:

But I could def. see the other side of this argument.

arkanian215
01-10-2011, 01:18 AM
You would like to see your player remain or improve his efficiency as his volume goes up. I was looking at LaMarcus Aldridge earlier tonight. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aldrila01.html His efficiency numbers go up in some categories but pretty much remain flat. However, he does improve his volume. I think this matters most when you're talking about role players that you think can become starters.

Take Brandon Bass for example. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bassbr01.html If you add more minutes per game, will he be less effective? He was labeled an energy guy who comes in and gives you everything he had in those short minutes. Can he sustain his level of play or would he be less efficient w/ more minutes? In Bass' case, he has improved in both regular stats and advanced stats for the most part. His rebounding has slid a bit.

thekmp211
01-10-2011, 02:05 AM
why did this get moved?

if a guy was efficient before and after, then he's probably improved.

if a guy is less efficient in a starring role, he's probably just been given more touches.

if both go up, it's pretty clear the guy's gotten better.

all three of the guys you mention are more or less the same players they were last year, although i think the case could be made that beasley really has improved his game.

being the main guy is obviously an experience that can help you in the future, but that's not what you're talking about i don't think.

Sadds The Gr8
01-10-2011, 02:30 AM
why did this get moved?

I know...now this thread will lose pretty much all interest...this site is too damn stingy...

whichever mod did this, thank you for killing this thread. :facepalm:

Chronz
01-10-2011, 04:32 AM
Nobody denies they improved but its not the leap people think it is, any player will do better with more run, that they maintain the same efficiency in a greater role (usage) is improvement on its own, the only time I degrade Beasley and Wright is when people throw the MIP talk at them. If your not experiencing giant leaps in efficiency, you havent improved all that much.

ChiSox219
01-10-2011, 04:51 AM
nobody denies they improved but its not the leap people think it is, any player will do better with more run, that they maintain the same efficiency in a greater role (usage) is improvement on its own, the only time i degrade beasley and wright is when people throw the mip talk at them. If your not experiencing giant leaps in efficiency, you havent improved all that much.

+1