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Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 01:37 AM
To start off, I am not trying to bait Celtics fans or any Rondo fans.

I simply want to propose that Rondo is not the "elite" defender that he is made out to be. Why you may ask?

Well I think this last game against the Bulls really exposed him. Derrick Rose was able to get passed him seemingly at will. His only positive impacts on defense were felt when he would swipe from behind after Rose had already blown by him.

Sure, he had 5 steals. But the foul trouble he put his bigs in by not even being able to slow Rose down coming into the lane may have cost the Celtics the game.

Others will talk about his Defensive Rating. As of right now (not factoring in tonight's game), it sits at 99. I believe that is tops in the league for any point guard right now. And while DRTG can be useful to say who is a good defender and who is not; it is certainly not the end all, be all. The Celtics play tremendous team defense. What this means is that he can continously gamble and get beaten off the dribble, but his teammates will have his back and stop the ball. Therefore his DRTG will be much lower than it would be on say the 76ers (not just trying to pick on them), who don't have a strong post presence on defense.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not arguing that Rondo is a bad defender. His anticipation in the passing lane and hands around the ball are incredible. However, combining this with his inability to stop the drive convine me that he is merely a good defender, not elite.

Thoughts?

DerekRE_3
01-09-2011, 01:41 AM
Hasn't Rondo been playing hurt?

JB0B0
01-09-2011, 01:41 AM
You have to consider the fact that not many (if anyone) can defend Rose. He's simply too big, too strong, too fast, too good.

northsider
01-09-2011, 01:42 AM
Come on man really even if you don't mean too this is just a dumb thread. It isn't going to start anything but, a fight and add to the Bulls hate.

Rondo is clearly an amazing defender one game does not expose a player who does it game in and out. We just watched one game of Rondo and now you came to a conclusion which looks like you haven't watched him play at all and were waiting at a chance to bash him.

Gators123
01-09-2011, 01:43 AM
Come on man really even if you don't mean too this is just a dumb thread. It isn't going to start anything but, a fight and add to the Bulls hate.

Rondo is clearly an amazing defender one game does not expose a player who does it game in and out. We just watched one game of Rondo and now you came to a conclusion which looks like you haven't watched him play at all and were waiting at a chance to bash him.

Good post

/thread

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 01:44 AM
Come on man really even if you don't mean too this is just a dumb thread. It isn't going to start anything but, a fight and add to the Bulls hate.

Rondo is clearly an amazing defender one game does not expose a player who does it game in and out. We just watched one game of Rondo and now you came to a conclusion which looks like you haven't watched him play at all and were waiting at a chance to bash him.

I actually love watching Rondo play. I was looking forward to a great matchup between the 2 clashing styles him and Rose present tonight.

Swashcuff
01-09-2011, 01:44 AM
Best scorers in the league vs the best defenders in the league? HMMMMM 9 out of 10 times the scorers are going to get theirs but just be made to work a little harder for it. Despite this game tonight Rondo IS an Elite defender.

/thread

RZZZA
01-09-2011, 01:45 AM
You have to consider the fact that not many (if anyone) can defend Rose. He's simply too big, too strong, too fast, too good.

I think this too. Rose is really hard to guard. Rose on offense > Rondo on defense

but thats just going off what I saw tonight.

tangent12
01-09-2011, 01:47 AM
Rose = MVP caliber player
Rondo = overrated

We all know Rondo is simply not that good and that he's always been vastly overrated. So whenever he's exposed, it's really not that surprising or shocking at all.

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 01:48 AM
You have to consider the fact that not many (if anyone) can defend Rose. He's simply too big, too strong, too fast, too good.

The only thing that stands out to me is that Rose seemed to beat Rondo with his quickness tonight. There are a good number of ultra-quick PGs in the league nowadays.

Hustlenomics
01-09-2011, 01:48 AM
Hasn't Rondo been playing hurt?

bad foot,ankle,hamstring :(

beasted86
01-09-2011, 01:52 AM
There's no such thing as a lockdown defensive PG in the NBA. So if that's what you were looking for forget it.

It's going to be a long time before we see Gary Payton, Jason Kidd, Mookie Blaylock, Joe Dumars, Nate McMillan, Lindsey Hunter type PGs all in the league at the same time.

thebet
01-09-2011, 01:53 AM
bad foot,ankle,hamstring :(
... and bad free throws, mid range, and long range :(

Swashcuff
01-09-2011, 01:54 AM
... and bad free throws, mid range, and long range :(

real mature

kjoke
01-09-2011, 01:56 AM
Rose = MVP caliber player
Rondo = overrated

We all know Rondo is simply not that good and that he's always been vastly overrated. So whenever he's exposed, it's really not that surprising or shocking at all.

if rondo is the starting pg for the celtics and the celtics are better than the bulls than rondo is better than the bulls pg, which is rose

simple mathematics

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 01:57 AM
If this thread was about Derrick Rose and his defense Bulls mods would have closed it by now.

Derrick Rose has no relation to this thread other than the fact he is the one who Rondo defended tonight. Please be mature and don't try to make this into a Rose vs. Rondo fight.

thebet
01-09-2011, 02:00 AM
if rondo is the starting pg for the celtics and the celtics are better than the bulls than rondo is better than the bulls pg, which is rose

simple mathematics
in fact, there was no mathematics involved in that little scenario, but rather a very ineffective example of the transitive property.

Celtic AL
01-09-2011, 02:00 AM
this thread is a joke

chris34
01-09-2011, 02:00 AM
If this thread was about Derrick Rose and his defense Bulls mods would have closed it by now.

No doubt Rose has deficiencies on defense however I tend to agree that Rondo is overrated.

Bulls_fan90
01-09-2011, 02:01 AM
... and bad free throws, mid range, and long range :(

:laugh:

Celtic AL
01-09-2011, 02:02 AM
ok Rose is better than Rondo

thread closed

kjoke
01-09-2011, 02:03 AM
in fact, there was no mathematics involved in that little scenario, but rather a very ineffective example of the transitive property.

really? go get your math straight, and it was a mixture of both inequalities and the transitive property, the statement was logical in mathematical terms

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 02:03 AM
this thread is a joke

No, I'm quite serious. If you have an factually backed opinion on this, go ahead and say it. Otherwise don't try to turn this thread into a joke.

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 02:04 AM
ok Rose is better than Rondo

thread closed

Not the point of this thread. :pity:

RZZZA
01-09-2011, 02:04 AM
I tend to think Rondo is very good, I have no idea about his defensive capabilities though. Rose has been denied plenty before, he's had his shots blocked, Rondo wasn't the guy to do that tonight though.

In my simplistic way, I tend to think like this...

Rose is the better scorer
Rondo is the better assister, now that could just be because he has a lot more offensive weapons to work with on his team or it could just be innate skill and ability, I don't know

kjoke
01-09-2011, 02:06 AM
im guessing people do tend to forget rondo single handedly winning Celtics multiple series in the playoffs with both his own offense and his distribution and intangibles

thebet
01-09-2011, 02:07 AM
really? go get your math straight, and it was a mixture of both inequalities and the transitive property, the statement was logical in mathematical terms

umm, actually no it wasn't. You combined two completely different, unrelated factors with no direct correlation. One team being better than the other (Which is X) cannot somehow correlate to a PG being better than another PG (Which is Y). Which is why it was a POOR example of the transitive property. Get your math straight.

Hustlenomics
01-09-2011, 02:07 AM
slick way of trying to rub the win in the Celtics faces OP

Celtic AL
01-09-2011, 02:08 AM
No, I'm quite serious. If you have an factually backed opinion on this, go ahead and say it. Otherwise don't try to turn this thread into a joke.


Not the point of this thread. :pity:

the dude was hurt point & blank

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 02:08 AM
im guessing people do tend to forget rondo single handedly winning Celtics multiple series in the playoffs with both his own offense and his distribution and intangibles

Since when was this thread about his offense? This only focuses on the defensive aspect of his game.

Celtic AL
01-09-2011, 02:08 AM
hats off to the Bulls for playing a good game

Chucky Woods
01-09-2011, 02:09 AM
Rose = MVP caliber player
Rondo = overrated

We all know Rondo is simply not that good and that he's always been vastly overrated. So whenever he's exposed, it's really not that surprising or shocking at all.:facepalm::laugh:

RZZZA
01-09-2011, 02:10 AM
hats off to the Bulls for playing a good game

hats off to you guys too, it was a fun game; your fanbase is pretty damn cool as well on here.

kjoke
01-09-2011, 02:11 AM
umm, actually no it wasn't. You combined two completely different, unrelated factors with no direct correlation. One team being better than the other (Which is X) cannot somehow correlate to a PG being better than another PG (Which is Y). Which is why it was a POOR example of the transitive property. Get your math straight.

ok this is getting nowhere but rondo is team x which is directly related to team y, that being said heres another example, if a pg averages 5/5/5 (X) and the other 20/10/8 (y), yet the lesser pg's team is greatly better than the other, than that point guard has to be better than the obvious pick,Why? because the ultimate answer relies on the team, not the player. and if the team is better than that player at that position is better

bigsams50
01-09-2011, 02:11 AM
2010 All NBA First Team Defense.
2009 All NBA Second Team Defense
:shrug: Sounds overrated to me

kjoke
01-09-2011, 02:13 AM
if ben wallace back in the day had an off game, would that make hmi a bad defender? no, one game does not determine a player overall

Sadds The Gr8
01-09-2011, 02:14 AM
bait thread...

Celtic AL
01-09-2011, 02:14 AM
Rose = MVP caliber player
Rondo = overrated

We all know Rondo is simply not that good and that he's always been vastly overrated. So whenever he's exposed, it's really not that surprising or shocking at all.

hes not overrated. get your facts str8

thebet
01-09-2011, 02:16 AM
ok this is getting nowhere but rondo is team x which is directly related to team y, that being said heres another example, if a pg averages 5/5/5 (X) and the other 20/10/8 (y), yet the lesser pg's team is greatly better than the other, than that point guard has to be better than the obvious pick,Why? because the ultimate answer relies on the team, not the player. and if the team is better than that player at that position is better
Okay. So lets say Jordan is back in his prime, but playing beside a bunch of four year olds on the Celtics. The Celtics loose every game of the season, but Jordan continues to put up impressive numbers. Your mastermind logic would have every forward in the league better than Jordan!!! Nice!

Hustlenomics
01-09-2011, 02:18 AM
bait thread...

definitely and it's not like Rose's defense is better than Rondo's so whats the point

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 02:19 AM
definitely and it's not like Rose's defense is better than Rondo's so whats the point

The point wasn't to compare Rose to Rondo. How many times does that have to be stated? :pity:

The point was to see what others thought about Rondo's true value on defense.

D Roses Bulls
01-09-2011, 02:22 AM
I swear if this was a rose defense or offense thread and bulls fans were saying this is a bait thread or complaining about it, people would say why do bulls fans always have to defend rose when we talk about someone else or point out a flaw, but since this is about another PG and what the OP thinks is a flaw rondo has and because he is a Bulls fan people are all on this dude and complaining. you cant have it both way guys. its his opinion, like it or not, its his opinions. its not baiting, its not putting him down or bad mouthing him, IT'S HIS OPINION.

Celtic AL
01-09-2011, 02:22 AM
for the record Both Rose & Rondo are not overrated they are both great PG's. ones just a better scorer & shooter thats all

sargon21
01-09-2011, 02:23 AM
alright despite all the BS in this thread, Rondo does play that gambling style of going for steals after his man gets by him, but usually it leads to kg/perk and not jo/shaq/baby, so it doesn't usually hurt his team as much, but imo he was never an elite defender, rather more of a product of his environment, no doubt he has quick hands though

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 02:23 AM
I swear if this was a rose defense or offense thread and bulls fans were saying this is a bait thread or complaining about it, people would say why do bulls fans always have to defend rose when we talk about someone else or point out a flaw, but since this is about another PG and what the OP thinks is a flaw and because he is a Bulls fan people are all on this dude and complaining. you cant have it both way guys. its his opinion, like it or not, its his opinions. its not baiting, its not putting him down or bad mouthing him, IT'S HIS OPINION.

Thank you. Whats's your opinion on Rondo's defense? As a fellow Bulls fan, I'm sure you watched a good portion of the game at least.

D Roses Bulls
01-09-2011, 02:26 AM
alright despite all the BS in this thread, Rondo does play that gambling style of going for steals after his man gets by him, but usually it leads to kg/perk and not jo/shaq/baby, so it doesn't usually hurt his team as much, but imo he was never an elite defender, rather more of a product of his environment, no doubt he has quick hands though

exactly, he gambles a lot like wade. it doesn't mean't he's an awesome defender cause he gambles a lot, but it doesn't mean he sucks.

northsider
01-09-2011, 02:26 AM
for the record Both Rose & Rondo are not overrated they are both great PG's. ones just a better scorer & shooter thats all

Man I applaud you being civil about this and good game earlier. Sometimes I understand why people look down at most of us Bulls posters and it sucks.

sage01930
01-09-2011, 02:26 AM
i dont know if someone said it but head to head rondo has been great defesivly it was one game and hes hurt.

head to head stats i would take rondo any day

pts. ast. reb. stl. to.
rose 24.6 6.3 4.3 0 4.6

rondo 11.6 12.6 4.6 4 2.3

sage01930
01-09-2011, 02:27 AM
i would say 90 percent of the time rondo would house rose defensivly

D Roses Bulls
01-09-2011, 02:28 AM
Thank you. Whats's your opinion on Rondo's defense? As a fellow Bulls fan, I'm sure you watched a good portion of the game at least.

I think he is a good defender, but I think he gambles a lot and since his gambles have paid off it is inflating his numbers. now taking a gamble doesn't exactly make you a great defender, but I dont think he is a bad defender either. I just think some people do overrate his defense some. he isn't a lock down defender, he is a good gambler though.

Mishmin
01-09-2011, 02:29 AM
I'm a celtic, but I can see what you're trying to say here. Rondo has a hard time staying in front of Rose, as does most guards. Rose's penetration is unmatched in pgs today. Where a guard like Deron Williams bodies up in a defensive position, Rondo sort of floats off and around defenders. I suppose you could attach that to him being a weaker defender than he's known as, but I wouldn't. His style of defense often depends on help defenders, but I don't believe that's by accident. The Celtics know he lets a few by and then goes at them from behind. In a one on one game, I might not choose Rajon as my defender, but in a team defense, there are few I would take above him.

D Roses Bulls
01-09-2011, 02:31 AM
Man I applaud you being civil about this and good game earlier. Sometimes I understand why people look down at most of us Bulls posters and it sucks.

AND this is what makes me mad about some of my fellow bulls posters. who gives a crap what people think of you on a internet forum. it's not like if you aren't popular on here your not gonna get to go to the party this weekend cause there is no party. its the internet and not high school.

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 02:32 AM
I think he is a good defender, but I think he gambles a lot and since his gambles have paid off it is inflating his numbers. now taking a gamble doesn't exactly make you a great defender, but I dont think he is a bad defender either. I just think some people do overrate his defense some. he isn't a lock down defender, he is a good gambler though.

That's exactly what I see. A good defender that takes gambles. And mostly good gambles at that, however not at a rate that can make him an elite defender with the number of times he gets beat.

sargon21
01-09-2011, 02:33 AM
I'm a celtic, but I can see what you're trying to say here. Rondo has a hard time staying in front of Rose, as does most guards. Rose's penetration is unmatched in pgs today. Where a guard like Deron Williams bodies up in a defensive position, Rondo sort of floats off and around defenders. I suppose you could attach that to him being a weaker defender than he's known as, but I wouldn't. His style of defense often depends on help defenders, but I don't believe that's by accident. The Celtics know he lets a few by and then goes at them from behind. In a one on one game, I might not choose Rajon as my defender, but in a team defense, there are few I would take above him.

Would you take Deron over Rajon as a defender in the Celtics system?

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 02:33 AM
I'm a celtic, but I can see what you're trying to say here. Rondo has a hard time staying in front of Rose, as does most guards. Rose's penetration is unmatched in pgs today. Where a guard like Deron Williams bodies up in a defensive position, Rondo sort of floats off and around defenders. I suppose you could attach that to him being a weaker defender than he's known as, but I wouldn't. His style of defense often depends on help defenders, but I don't believe that's by accident. The Celtics know he lets a few by and then goes at them from behind. In a one on one game, I might not choose Rajon as my defender, but in a team defense, there are few I would take above him.

Very good post. What you said is what I think makes him a good defender, just not elite. He certainly has time to improve as he's still one of the younger, super-high impact PGs around the NBA.

NetsPaint
01-09-2011, 02:40 AM
People said Iverson's defense is bad, but when Rondo plays the passing lane, he's good...

I'm not saying Rondo isn't a good defender, I'll leave that to the people who watches a lot of his play, but down the road I wanna see how people reflect on his defense.

northsider
01-09-2011, 02:40 AM
AND this is what makes me mad about some of my fellow bulls posters. who gives a crap what people think of you on a internet forum. it's not like if you aren't popular on here your not gonna get to go to the party this weekend cause there is no party. its the internet and not high school.

Seems like you say the same **** anytime a Bulls poster doesn't want to follow your lead.

thebet
01-09-2011, 02:41 AM
i would say 90 percent of the time rondo would house rose defensivly
Interesting! So if Rondo and Rose had some sort of a defensive sparring match, rondo would win 9 out of 10 matches. Good contribution.

sage01930
01-09-2011, 02:42 AM
didnt say that i said i would take him defensivly

sage01930
01-09-2011, 02:43 AM
i think head to head it would be something like 5-5 or 6-4 in either of thier favore

D Roses Bulls
01-09-2011, 02:45 AM
Seems like you say the same **** anytime a Bulls poster doesn't want to follow your lead.

I say this to EVERYONE....... honestly, not trying to be mean here, but if you give a crap about what people on psd think of you then you might need to get out of the house more.

sargon21
01-09-2011, 02:45 AM
the guy can't score tho...

(to sage)

sage01930
01-09-2011, 02:45 AM
o wait thats what you said sorry well probobly not but whos to say. i just mean rose is obviously a better scorer but i think rondo is superior defensivly and there worths as pgs to thier teams are about equal and it was one game to judge a person by one game is luicris

tangent12
01-09-2011, 02:47 AM
I say this to EVERYONE....... honestly, not trying to be mean here, but if you give a crap about what people on psd think of you then you might need to get out of the house more.

Owned.





:laugh2:

Hustlenomics
01-09-2011, 02:48 AM
the guy can't score tho...

(to sage)

he seemed fine scoring in the playoff series where he also averaged a triple double against chicago

sage01930
01-09-2011, 02:48 AM
i think its kind of like comparing jordan to bird and no im not calling either of them those two (not yet atleast) but its imposible to compare thier games they are so different and the intangibles of the people around them differ alot so i think to compare them is almost imposible to do and be right either way

D Roses Bulls
01-09-2011, 02:50 AM
i think its kind of like comparing jordan to bird and no im not calling either of them those two (not yet atleast) but its imposible to compare thier games they are so different and the intangibles of the people around them differ alot so i think to compare them is almost imposible to do and be right either way

they play differently I will agree, but comparing jordan and bird is like comparing magic and barkley, two different positions. rose and rondo do play the same position, but I get what you are saying.

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 02:50 AM
he seemed fine scoring in the playoff series where he also averaged a triple double against chicago

*with VDN as our head coach

But this is not about Rondo's offense. Just defense.

sargon21
01-09-2011, 02:50 AM
he seemed fine scoring in the playoff series where he also averaged a triple double against chicago

with 2 HOFers around him opening the lanes...

you're not even worth responding to


---------

and to sage: we're talking ONE on ONE right?

Hustlenomics
01-09-2011, 02:51 AM
with 3 HOFers around him opening the lanes...

you're not even worth responding to


---------

and to sage: we're talking ONE on ONE right?

Kg wasn't even in the series LOL

D Roses Bulls
01-09-2011, 02:52 AM
honestly, not trying to knock rondo, but I wonder what roses over all stats would be if he played with kg,allen, and pierce?

sage01930
01-09-2011, 02:53 AM
stupid side note though why do celtic and bulls fans have to fight. cant we all just get along and appreciate the greatness that is brian scalabrine instead lol

thebet
01-09-2011, 02:54 AM
honestly, not trying to knock rondo, but I wonder what roses over all stats would be if he played with kg,allen, and pierce?

They would be insane. Who do you double team in that scenario!? Rose will always have either a lane, a wide open shooter, or an easy mid-range jumper. Always.

sargon21
01-09-2011, 02:54 AM
honestly, not trying to knock rondo, but I wonder what roses over all stats would be if he played with kg,allen, and pierce?

the rose-rondo argument would cease to exist

northsider
01-09-2011, 02:56 AM
I say this to EVERYONE....... honestly, not trying to be mean here, but if you give a crap about what people on psd think of you then you might need to get out of the house more.

All this says the guy who too is sitting at his house on a saturday night on a sports forum. I actually have a reason I am not out chasing tail and being social I don't know if I can say the same for you.

thebet
01-09-2011, 02:57 AM
All this says the guy who too is sitting at his house on a saturday night on a sports forum. I actually have a reason I am not out chasing tail and being social I don't know if I can say the same for you.
I love the fact that you just used the term, "Chasing Tail." Nice bro.

D Roses Bulls
01-09-2011, 02:58 AM
They would be insane. Who do you double team in that scenario!? Rose will always have either a lane, a wide open shooter, or an easy mid-range jumper. Always.

Honestly, I think Rose could be very close to averaging a triple double a game for the fact that he can shoot the ball, he would averaged as least 10 assists a game and he can jump outta gym and grab a lot of rebounds.

my prediction would be 19-10.5-8.5 a game

D Roses Bulls
01-09-2011, 03:01 AM
All this says the guy who too is sitting at his house on a saturday night on a sports forum. I actually have a reason I am not out chasing tail and being social I don't know if I can say the same for you.

Ummmm Im 25 years old, going to law school, have a girlfriend, and I've worked from 6am to 6pm today, and I work at 9am tomorrow. I dont need to be out, but yes I think the things I listed would tell you I have a life and I don't worry about what people on this site think of me.

thebet
01-09-2011, 03:06 AM
Honestly, I think Rose could be very close to averaging a triple double a game for the fact that he can shoot the ball, he would averaged as least 10 assists a game and he can jump outta gym and grab a lot of rebounds.

my prediction would be 19-10.5-8.5 a game
This. For sure. Maybe even better. Rondo is a product of other great players... now albeit a great product. But Rondo is like HD cable box. He works very well, but only when combined with an HD flat screen television. Rose, however, IS an HD flat screen television. It doesn't matter what is hooked up to him... he's still in HD, and is still great.

sargon21
01-09-2011, 03:08 AM
^ good comparison lol

D Roses Bulls
01-09-2011, 03:08 AM
This. For sure. Maybe even better. Rondo is a product of other great players... now albeit a great product. But Rondo is like HD cable box. He works very well, but only when combined with an HD flat screen television. Rose, however, IS an HD flat screen television. It doesn't matter what is hooked up to him... he's still in HD, and is still great.

LOL.....yeah it could actually be better, I'm just being modest with that prediction and a little logical cause I dont think 4 players on a team will average 20 plus a game and since derrick is not selfish and a PG, I think he would cut back his scoring some.

aman_13
01-09-2011, 03:20 AM
I never get into these Rose and Rondo arguments but i will say this. No one in this league can gaurd Rose on one on. He's too quick for any pg and when he's hitting his jump shot, then your in for a long night. Lets not degrade Rondo based on a game, if your saying he's a bad defender, then you haven't seen him play or your not watching him closely enough.

Draco
01-09-2011, 03:42 AM
I never get into these Rose and Rondo arguments but i will say this. No one in this league can gaurd Rose on one on. He's too quick for any pg and when he's hitting his jump shot, then your in for a long night. Lets not degrade Rondo based on a game, if your saying he's a bad defender, then you haven't seen him play or your not watching him closely enough.

I'll say something positive about Rondo in this last game. His team shot 36% (if you disregard Rondo's shooting contributions) yet he still managed 8 assists and 0 turnovers.

The Bulls 49.2% and despite the higher fg% Rose managed only 2 assists and had 4 TOs.

That's just an at-a-glance observation.. I'm not sure what to glean from those numbers except to say generally speaking that Rose is struggling handling the ball and Rondo's pretty good handling the ball regardless of his HOF teammates.

blueplanet
01-09-2011, 03:45 AM
You have to consider the fact that not many (if anyone) can defend Rose. He's simply too big, too strong, too fast, too good.

This. Derrick Rose is a God. It's not easy to guard god himself. You have to realize that.

D1JM
01-09-2011, 03:47 AM
Haters always knocking on rose defense but tonite rose exposed rondo nasty. Rondo lack of "elite" defense that a lot of people give him credit( mainly because a lot of people measure good defense by rebounds and steals, which a lot has to do with rondo gambling on situations) got his bigs in foul trouble.

blueplanet
01-09-2011, 03:50 AM
don't try to make this into a Rose vs. Rondo fight.

The OP says that :laugh2::laugh2:

Dr Cyanide 28
01-09-2011, 03:51 AM
This. Derrick Rose is a God. It's not easy to guard god himself. You have to realize that.

to your sig, i dont understand how the heat are number one when the bulls have the higher total attendance and higher averages in both home and away and a higher total percentage.

Gators123
01-09-2011, 03:52 AM
Jordan Farmar had 20 points 10 assist tonight, does that make him an elite PG?

Hustlenomics
01-09-2011, 04:07 AM
Haters always knocking on rose defense but tonite rose exposed rondo nasty. Rondo lack of "elite" defense that a lot of people give him credit( mainly because a lot of people measure good defense by rebounds and steals, which a lot has to do with rondo gambling on situations) got his bigs in foul trouble.

exposed what? wait till the Celtics big men are healthy and we'll see if Rose gets them floaters in as easy..Perkins shall be waiting

Jewelz0376
01-09-2011, 04:32 AM
Real talk there is no point guard out there that can lock down there position in todays nba...Guards like cp3, westbrook, wall are just too fast and athletic.. To hold it against Rondo because he couldn't shutdown Rose is a little ridiculous

swirl54
01-09-2011, 04:56 AM
Not to be a homer but if you wanna compare the two imagine a 1on1 game Rose would destroy Rondo no questions asked it wouldnt even be close I wont even argue that. Rose is a player to lead a team to a title. Rondo is a key player on a title team and maybe more to come. I dont even get the argument really it's like when Ben Wallace was playing comparing him to Shaq COME ON PEOPLE REALLY. Rose>>>Rondo

What?
01-09-2011, 05:43 AM
Rondo's defense is probably best in the league for the pg position but as some people have pointed out the pg position is so stacked with athletic freaks to the point were it is impossible to expect to shut these guys out. Rondo does the best you could expect all things considered

I would also say that his defense is a little bit overrated thanks to being surrounded with other great defenders.

John Walls Era
01-09-2011, 05:52 AM
All I will say is 1 > 0.

JARVIS123
01-09-2011, 05:58 AM
Best scorers in the league vs the best defenders in the league? HMMMMM 9 out of 10 times the scorers are going to get theirs but just be made to work a little harder for it. Despite this game tonight Rondo IS an Elite defender.

/thread

I dont think Rose had to work hard at all.

John Walls Era
01-09-2011, 06:07 AM
Not to be a homer but if you wanna compare the two imagine a 1on1 game Rose would destroy Rondo no questions asked it wouldnt even be close I wont even argue that. Rose is a player to lead a team to a title. Rondo is a key player on a title team and maybe more to come. I dont even get the argument really it's like when Ben Wallace was playing comparing him to Shaq COME ON PEOPLE REALLY. Rose>>>Rondo

Get back to me when it happens.

Kyben36
01-09-2011, 06:28 AM
I would not call rondo an elite defender, if you actualy watch him play defense, he hacks on every play, and gets away with it alot. with that said, if it works it works, but where i come from, there is more to defense then hacking a guy down the lane till he looses his dribble.

MOST
01-09-2011, 06:40 AM
Get back to me when it happens.

Dumb *** hater always hating even if we have a good game...
Give us props..the better team won today damn

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Minimal
01-09-2011, 07:43 AM
Defensive Rating
Rajon Rondo - 99 (1st in the league)
Chris Paul 99.1 (2nd)
Derrick Rose - 103

We can all say Rajon Rondo is basically in situation Carlos Arroyo and Mario Chalmers are now, they have good defenders on every other positions. (2 best defensive teams in NBA)

Carlos Arroyo - 106 (Worst in the Heat)
Mario Chalmers - 100 (We all know he is decent defender)

I would say DRTG is a decent and not misleading stat.
This stat proves that Rajon Rondo is the best in the league at defending his opponent.

ChiSox219
01-09-2011, 07:48 AM
definitely and it's not like Rose's defense is better than Rondo's so whats the point

Well, Rose's defense has been better than Rondo's thus far this season...

Lil Rhody
01-09-2011, 07:49 AM
ahhhhhhh just wait untill playoffs...... cant wait to be hoisting that ****ing trophy again

ChiSox219
01-09-2011, 07:50 AM
Defensive Rating
Rajon Rondo - 99 (1st in the league)
Chris Paul 99.1 (2nd)
Derrick Rose - 103

We can all say Rajon Rondo is basically in situation Carlos Arroyo and Mario Chalmers are now, they have good defenders on every other positions. (2 best defensive teams in NBA)

Carlos Arroyo - 106 (Worst in the Heat)
Mario Chalmers - 100 (We all know he is decent defender)

I would say DRTG is a decent and not misleading stat.
This stat proves that Rajon Rondo is the best in the league at defending his opponent.

Bosh, Z, and the rest of the Miami bigs do not compare to Shaq, KG, etc.

DRtg is a misleading individual stat, dPPP or dRAPM are much more accurate.

checkit
01-09-2011, 08:02 AM
Defensive Rating
Rajon Rondo - 99 (1st in the league)
Chris Paul 99.1 (2nd)
Derrick Rose - 103

We can all say Rajon Rondo is basically in situation Carlos Arroyo and Mario Chalmers are now, they have good defenders on every other positions. (2 best defensive teams in NBA)

Carlos Arroyo - 106 (Worst in the Heat)
Mario Chalmers - 100 (We all know he is decent defender)

I would say DRTG is a decent and not misleading stat.
This stat proves that Rajon Rondo is the best in the league at defending his opponent.

thank you. /thread.

YoungOne
01-09-2011, 08:07 AM
one game, and the other 2 where rondo had his way with rose are forgotten :facepalm:

ChiSox219
01-09-2011, 08:11 AM
thank you. /thread.

:facepalm:

checkit
01-09-2011, 08:19 AM
one game, and the other 2 where rondo had his way with rose are forgotten :facepalm:

only on psd :facepalm:

redsox0717
01-09-2011, 08:20 AM
He has one bad game coming off a back-to-back when he has an injured hamstring and plantar fasciitis and suddenly he is 'exposed'? No offense, but some of the Bulls fans here (not all, some) come across at blatant haters who are still butt hurt from the playoff series and can't respect him as a player because of it.

magichatnumber9
01-09-2011, 08:37 AM
I understand your excited about last night. But Rose is still a garbage point guard. Team defense won that game not Derrick Rose

psperry34116
01-09-2011, 10:09 AM
Rose is not a garbage point guard. Even as a Celtics fan, I think Derrick Rose is the MVP of the NBA. Hes shown to be a complete player this year and has kept the Bulls near the top of the rankings even with injuries to their other two stars. If he could improve slightly on his defense, he would be the best pg in the league.

psperry34116
01-09-2011, 10:10 AM
I understand your excited about last night. But Rose is still a garbage point guard. Team defense won that game not Derrick Rose

Rose is not a garbage point guard. Even as a Celtics fan, I think Derrick Rose is the MVP of the NBA. Hes shown to be a complete player this year and has kept the Bulls near the top of the rankings even with injuries to their other two stars. If he could improve slightly on his defense, he would be the best pg in the league.

hugepatsfan
01-09-2011, 11:24 AM
If I'm not mistaken, this was the first back-to-back that Rondo has played since his ankle injury. He hasn't been the same athletically since he's come back from that. He's still working his way back. All of that combined w/ the fact that Rose is a great scorer that a healthy player would have a difficult time w/ makes me think Rondo deserves a pass on this one.

Norieaga
01-09-2011, 11:33 AM
Because of one game? He brings it all the time, good defense just means that the scorer is going to have to work harder for his points. Rondo's the best defensive PG.

magichatnumber9
01-09-2011, 11:39 AM
Rose is not a garbage point guard. Even as a Celtics fan, I think Derrick Rose is the MVP of the NBA. Hes shown to be a complete player this year and has kept the Bulls near the top of the rankings even with injuries to their other two stars. If he could improve slightly on his defense, he would be the best pg in the league.I never said he was a garbage player. 2 assists read your stat line. The Bulls have only one point guard and it's not Derrick Rose.

xbrackattackx
01-09-2011, 11:45 AM
To start off, I am not trying to bait Celtics fans or any Rondo fans.

I simply want to propose that Rondo is not the "elite" defender that he is made out to be. Why you may ask?

Well I think this last game against the Bulls really exposed him. Derrick Rose was able to get passed him seemingly at will. His only positive impacts on defense were felt when he would swipe from behind after Rose had already blown by him.

Sure, he had 5 steals. But the foul trouble he put his bigs in by not even being able to slow Rose down coming into the lane may have cost the Celtics the game.

Others will talk about his Defensive Rating. As of right now (not factoring in tonight's game), it sits at 99. I believe that is tops in the league for any point guard right now. And while DRTG can be useful to say who is a good defender and who is not; it is certainly not the end all, be all. The Celtics play tremendous team defense. What this means is that he can continously gamble and get beaten off the dribble, but his teammates will have his back and stop the ball. Therefore his DRTG will be much lower than it would be on say the 76ers (not just trying to pick on them), who don't have a strong post presence on defense.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not arguing that Rondo is a bad defender. His anticipation in the passing lane and hands around the ball are incredible. However, combining this with his inability to stop the drive convine me that he is merely a good defender, not elite.

Thoughts?

F rose and his 2 assist last night. He is not a elite point Guard. He is good at scoring.

xbrackattackx
01-09-2011, 11:47 AM
Rose is not a garbage point guard. Even as a Celtics fan, I think Derrick Rose is the MVP of the NBA. Hes shown to be a complete player this year and has kept the Bulls near the top of the rankings even with injuries to their other two stars. If he could improve slightly on his defense, he would be the best pg in the league.


Rose is not a garbage point guard. Even as a Celtics fan, I think Derrick Rose is the MVP of the NBA. Hes shown to be a complete player this year and has kept the Bulls near the top of the rankings even with injuries to their other two stars. If he could improve slightly on his defense, he would be the best pg in the league.



No one listens to 2011 posters sorry.

chris34
01-09-2011, 11:48 AM
I tend to think Rondo is very good, I have no idea about his defensive capabilities though. Rose has been denied plenty before, he's had his shots blocked, Rondo wasn't the guy to do that tonight though.

In my simplistic way, I tend to think like this...

Rose is the better scorer
Rondo is the better assister, now that could just be because he has a lot more offensive weapons to work with on his team or it could just be innate skill and ability, I don't know

Maybe this is an idea for a new thread: If YOUR team could have either Rose or Rondo added to its current line up in place of your current PG, who would you want?

So for example:

Lakers = Rondo
Celtics = Rondo
Spurs = Rose
Heat = Rondo
Bulls = Rose
Magic = ?

Jamiecballer
01-09-2011, 12:01 PM
To start off, I am not trying to bait Celtics fans or any Rondo fans.

I simply want to propose that Rondo is not the "elite" defender that he is made out to be. Why you may ask?

Well I think this last game against the Bulls really exposed him. Derrick Rose was able to get passed him seemingly at will. His only positive impacts on defense were felt when he would swipe from behind after Rose had already blown by him.

Sure, he had 5 steals. But the foul trouble he put his bigs in by not even being able to slow Rose down coming into the lane may have cost the Celtics the game.

Others will talk about his Defensive Rating. As of right now (not factoring in tonight's game), it sits at 99. I believe that is tops in the league for any point guard right now. And while DRTG can be useful to say who is a good defender and who is not; it is certainly not the end all, be all. The Celtics play tremendous team defense. What this means is that he can continously gamble and get beaten off the dribble, but his teammates will have his back and stop the ball. Therefore his DRTG will be much lower than it would be on say the 76ers (not just trying to pick on them), who don't have a strong post presence on defense.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not arguing that Rondo is a bad defender. His anticipation in the passing lane and hands around the ball are incredible. However, combining this with his inability to stop the drive convine me that he is merely a good defender, not elite.

Thoughts?

you alluded to the fact that the celtics play great team defense. perhaps he is encouraged to take a lot of chances defensively because of it.

JARVIS123
01-09-2011, 12:04 PM
Maybe this is an idea for a new thread: If YOUR team could have either Rose or Rondo added to its current line up in place of your current PG, who would you want?

So for example:

Lakers = Rondo
Celtics = Rondo
Spurs = Rose
Heat = Rondo
Bulls = Rose
Magic = ?

rondo wont work with the heat.we need a point guard that can play off the ball as well as shoot at a high %.

avrpatsfan
01-09-2011, 12:05 PM
Rondo was injured and Derrick Rose is close to unguardable. You do the math.

Slimsim
01-09-2011, 12:13 PM
Rondo > Rose

magichatnumber9
01-09-2011, 12:19 PM
If Rose is not the number 1 option he will pull a David Copperfield and just disappear. I have seen him make some good assists, but for the most part he doesn't seem to make his teammates better. Rondo does and...... Rondo's jumpshot is pretty good this year. Oh and if it weren't for the Plantar F he would have been taking it to the cup and drawing fouls. Look bottom line Boozer got into big Babies head and he wasn't knocking down shots. If Baby starts hitting those the Bulls defense opens up

DwayneMVPwade
01-09-2011, 12:34 PM
Rose is too strong and fast for any anybody in the league. No one can guard him. Rondo is a great defender

chad78
01-09-2011, 12:40 PM
Rondo is not even a top 5 point gaurd in the nba, i`m sorry i`m not a bulls fan just because i live in illinois, i`m actually a magic fan, but i would actually take williams,paul,rose,nash,kidd,and billups over him because they all do more for there team then rondo, really all rondo gives the celtics is assits, he can not score if he has to like the rest of these guys can,

daisuke4cy
01-09-2011, 12:45 PM
Rose is a dime a dosen there is a derrick rose in almost every draft. There has never been and mabye never will be another Rajon Rondo. Derrick Rose is a tweener without a real postion. Rajon Rondo is a pure point guard who finished second in last year dpoy award and if Dwight Howard goes down for a good chunk of the season Rondo will likely win dpoy. Rondo > Rose

effen5
01-09-2011, 12:49 PM
if rondo is the starting pg for the celtics and the celtics are better than the bulls than rondo is better than the bulls pg, which is rose

simple mathematics

Not sure what kinda math they are teaching in Miami...

m26555
01-09-2011, 12:50 PM
Are we seriously judging a player based on one game?

effen5
01-09-2011, 12:52 PM
Rose is not a garbage point guard. Even as a Celtics fan, I think Derrick Rose is the MVP of the NBA. Hes shown to be a complete player this year and has kept the Bulls near the top of the rankings even with injuries to their other two stars. If he could improve slightly on his defense, he would be the best pg in the league.

Thats what Coach Thibs is for, great post btw.

Fukudome
01-09-2011, 12:53 PM
Rose is a dime a dosen there is a derrick rose in almost every draft. There has never been and mabye never will be another Rajon Rondo. Derrick Rose is a tweener without a real postion. Rajon Rondo is a pure point guard who finished second in last year dpoy award and if Dwight Howard goes down for a good chunk of the season Rondo will likely win dpoy. Rondo > Rose

Put down the kool-aid, step away from the ledge sir.

While I agree that Rondo is special, Derrick Rose is not a dime a dozen.

effen5
01-09-2011, 12:54 PM
I never said he was a garbage player. 2 assists read your stat line. The Bulls have only one point guard and it's not Derrick Rose.

Well normally, Rose gets his assists from either KK, Luol, and Booz

KK went 0 for 1
Luol went 3 for 10

and Boozer got most of his shots going 1 on 1 against Big Baby

Kinda hard to get assists when your role players don't score on open looks.

Taj went 0 for 4 for **** sake

and Ronnie Brewer gets most of his points from off the glass

Fukudome
01-09-2011, 12:55 PM
I never said he was a garbage player. 2 assists read your stat line. The Bulls have only one point guard and it's not Derrick Rose.

How about the around 7 or 8 missed lay ups or jump shots when other Bulls were literally WIDE OPEN? You can't get everything off of the stat sheet.

finalverse
01-09-2011, 01:24 PM
Rondo is a good defender but he can't hold his own against Rose, that is what happened last night.

J4KOP99
01-09-2011, 01:42 PM
AND this is what makes me mad about some of my fellow bulls posters. who gives a crap what people think of you on a internet forum. it's not like if you aren't popular on here your not gonna get to go to the party this weekend cause there is no party. its the internet and not high school.

But the internet is a place for people who weren't popular in high school to make up for lost time. Some people take great pride in being a respected internet poster on this website...

I personally find it hilarious and I don't understand the need to have internet respect, but to each his own...

As for Rondo. He gambles all the time but that's not to say he's a bad defender. However, there are better on-ball defenders at the Point that I would rather have. Williams and Paul come to mind. Rondo is solid though... not a liability in the least.

J4KOP99
01-09-2011, 01:48 PM
How come every Celtics fan on here is pulling the injury card? Yes he's injured, but he still chose to play. Players play injured all the time. And the great ones play at a high level no matter what. That is not to say Rondo isn't a great player, but don't give me this **** about how he was injured so that's the only reason why he couldn't stop Rose last night.

He likes to gamble on defense and as we all know, those who constantly gamble are bound to get burnt at some point. With that said, he usually succeeds more than he fails. It was just a game that Rose played better than he did. Injury or not.

J4KOP99
01-09-2011, 01:50 PM
One more thing,

Posts #123 and #124 may be the 2 worst posts I have seen in the NBA forum.

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 02:30 PM
How come every Celtics fan on here is pulling the injury card? Yes he's injured, but he still chose to play. Players play injured all the time. And the great ones play at a high level no matter what. That is not to say Rondo isn't a great player, but don't give me this **** about how he was injured so that's the only reason why he couldn't stop Rose last night.

He likes to gamble on defense and as we all know, those who constantly gamble are bound to get burnt at some point. With that said, he usually succeeds more than he fails. It was just a game that Rose played better than he did. Injury or not.

Good post. I think the section of your post that I bolded describes why he is a good defender but yet not elite. At least in my book.

effen5
01-09-2011, 02:46 PM
One more thing,

Posts #123 and #124 may be the 2 worst posts I have seen in the NBA forum.

Nah I've seen worse...most of Dnewguys post is pretty bad and Valykie claimed that Jordan is overrated or something like that. Its on someones sig.

drobe86
01-09-2011, 03:02 PM
Dumb thread.... Rondo is the best player right now and has been for the last 3 seasons. No he is not as flashy as rose, and putting the ball between his legs and behind his back. Or dunking the ball fancy, but he understands TEAM basketball. and thats why he has a ring and Rose doesn't. At rucker park Rose would be a hall of famer, but this court is inside. In a gym, the indoor and street games are different

D1JM
01-09-2011, 03:12 PM
Dumb thread.... Rondo is the best player right now and has been for the last 3 seasons. No he is not as flashy as rose, and putting the ball between his legs and behind his back. Or dunking the ball fancy, but he understands TEAM basketball. and thats why he has a ring and Rose doesn't. At rucker park Rose would be a hall of famer, but this court is inside. In a gym, the indoor and street games are different

:laugh:

HouRealCoach
01-09-2011, 03:15 PM
Im not a Rondo hater but he is overrated.. Its kinda easy to get assists when you have Pierce on the left, Allen on the right, Shaq down low and KG at the High post, and youre the only one on the team thats allowed to get assists, Not to mention he has lots of room with people standing 10 feet off of him, Also he gambles too much on defense at times but he IS great at stealing the ball tho and he can drive but thats also because he has others to stretch the floor, and he can lead the break well too

But Im sorry they mention this guy with the lights of so many greats when he needs 3 HOF's and a loaded team to be noticed

For Example Steve Nash led Diaw, Marion, Bell, Barbosa, Jones to the Second best in the West and the WCF... Not saying they are sorry but MArion was the only All Star and there were no Future HOF's

nitric
01-09-2011, 03:19 PM
Dumb thread.... Rondo is the best player right now and has been for the last 3 seasons. No he is not as flashy as rose, and putting the ball between his legs and behind his back. Or dunking the ball fancy, but he understands TEAM basketball. and thats why he has a ring and Rose doesn't. At rucker park Rose would be a hall of famer, but this court is inside. In a gym, the indoor and street games are different

possible the worst post on PSD. and that is saying a lot

HouRealCoach
01-09-2011, 03:20 PM
Dumb thread.... Rondo is the best player right now and has been for the last 3 seasons. No he is not as flashy as rose, and putting the ball between his legs and behind his back. Or dunking the ball fancy, but he understands TEAM basketball. and thats why he has a ring and Rose doesn't. At rucker park Rose would be a hall of famer, but this court is inside. In a gym, the indoor and street games are different

He has a ring because of Pierce, Garnett, Allen, Posey, Perkins, Brown, Powe, Davis, and Allen also... So the fact that HE understands team ball isnt a fourth of the reason that HE has a ring

and the best player? Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Melo, Nash, Dwight, and others think otherwise

nitric
01-09-2011, 03:24 PM
Rondo was injured and Derrick Rose is close to unguardable. You do the math.

But when he had that 20 assist game he was fully healthy and playing great. gotta love the excuses

Hustlenomics
01-09-2011, 03:30 PM
I would not call rondo an elite defender, if you actualy watch him play defense, he hacks on every play, and gets away with it alot. with that said, if it works it works, but where i come from, there is more to defense then hacking a guy down the lane till he looses his dribble.

i watch him play and you are so wrong


Well, Rose's defense has been better than Rondo's thus far this season...

Rose doesn't play defense he just worries about scoring the ball


He has one bad game coming off a back-to-back when he has an injured hamstring and plantar fasciitis and suddenly he is 'exposed'? No offense, but some of the Bulls fans here (not all, some) come across at blatant haters who are still butt hurt from the playoff series and can't respect him as a player because of it.

thats the truth


Rondo is a good defender but he can't hold his own against Rose, that is what happened last night.

he sure did when he averaged a triple double against Rose in a 7 game series


But when he had that 20 assist game he was fully healthy and playing great. gotta love the excuses

he wasn't healthy but he was playing great

BeantownBill
01-09-2011, 03:34 PM
Hasn't Rondo been playing hurt?

This. I would respect the original poster 10X more if he just said what he really felt rather than sugar coat it and preface everything bv saying "I'm not trying to bait Celtics fans, etc .. but .."

You know when you make this post what you're doing. You can't stand people thinking Rondo might be better than Rose. Bulls fans are getting a little silly with the comparisons. Let it go already. I read the Celtics boards and I don't see any stupid "Do you think Rose is really that good?" threads, because they don't give a rat's *** either way. You can learn a lesson from this. Support your team and worry about what they do, and not about what's being said about players from other teams as it pertains to you living vicariously through your team. Damn, enough already with these stupid pointless threads.

Go post this in the Celtics forum if you want a discussion about Rondo. Or, if you want to throw Rose into it, put it in the Bulls forum. Or do the right thing, and get the **** over it already.

Hustlenomics
01-09-2011, 03:36 PM
^that first round series the other year must have really hurt for the Bulls fans

sugarrayray
01-09-2011, 03:38 PM
Come on man really even if you don't mean too this is just a dumb thread. It isn't going to start anything but, a fight and add to the Bulls hate.

Rondo is clearly an amazing defender one game does not expose a player who does it game in and out. We just watched one game of Rondo and now you came to a conclusion which looks like you haven't watched him play at all and were waiting at a chance to bash him.

This is definitely not a dumb thread. If you can't post a thread like this, then what's the point of threads?

I couldn't agree more that Rondo is very overrated as a defender. Last year opposing point guards continuously had huge games against him. So much so that I believe there was a point where Doc Rivers mentioned how Rondo was going to have to control other point guards much better.

People have been talking about Rondo's defense for years. But the truth is he is a man in perfect circumstances. He can gamble at will, and when you combine that with his quickness you have a player who will constantly be tops in the league in steals per game. I honestly believe he is not a plus defender at all.

BeantownBill
01-09-2011, 03:42 PM
Haters always knocking on rose defense but tonite rose exposed rondo nasty. Rondo lack of "elite" defense that a lot of people give him credit( mainly because a lot of people measure good defense by rebounds and steals, which a lot has to do with rondo gambling on situations) got his bigs in foul trouble.


What kills me with all of this is Rondo could have played this game in a cast from ankle to mid thigh and this ****** would still post this garbage. Do you even think before you post, or is your hate so blinding that you ignore the fact that you make yourself look like .. well, this, because you can't get over a playoff series loss?

If the Bulls face and beat the Celtics this year, you won't find me here next year acting like a child. I'll be pissed, I'll get over it, and there will be another season. Jesus, you act like Rondo raped your mother.

Hustlenomics
01-09-2011, 03:43 PM
This is definitely not a dumb thread. If you can't post a thread like this, then what's the point of threads?

I couldn't agree more that Rondo is very overrated as a defender. Last year opposing point guards continuously had huge games against him. So much so that I believe there was a point where Doc Rivers mentioned how Rondo was going to have to control other point guards much better.

People have been talking about Rondo's defense for years. But the truth is he is a man in perfect circumstances. He can gamble at will, and when you combine that with his quickness you have a player who will constantly be tops in the league in steals per game. I honestly believe he is not a plus defender at all.
you ever see his on ball defense? he's picked Rose's pocket many times

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 03:47 PM
Rose doesn't play defense he just worries about scoring the ball


So why does Rose have 2.0 Defensive Win Shares compared to Rondo's 1.9?

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 03:48 PM
you ever see his on ball defense? he's picked Rose's pocket many times

If you call that picking a pocket. It's more like getting blown by and swiping at the ball since it's his last chance to make an impact on the play.

Hustlenomics
01-09-2011, 03:50 PM
If you call that picking a pocket. It's more like getting blown by and swiping at the ball since it's his last chance to make an impact on the play.

I'm not talking about when Rondo let's a man go by him and hits the ball from behind

blueplanet
01-09-2011, 03:50 PM
to your sig, i dont understand how the heat are number one when the bulls have the higher total attendance and higher averages in both home and away and a higher total percentage.

What are you talking about? Do you follow your doctor's instructions? Put your glasses on and re-read.

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 03:51 PM
This. I would respect the original poster 10X more if he just said what he really felt rather than sugar coat it and preface everything bv saying "I'm not trying to bait Celtics fans, etc .. but .."

You know when you make this post what you're doing. You can't stand people thinking Rondo might be better than Rose. Bulls fans are getting a little silly with the comparisons. Let it go already. I read the Celtics boards and I don't see any stupid "Do you think Rose is really that good?" threads, because they don't give a rat's *** either way. You can learn a lesson from this. Support your team and worry about what they do, and not about what's being said about players from other teams as it pertains to you living vicariously through your team. Damn, enough already with these stupid pointless threads.

Go post this in the Celtics forum if you want a discussion about Rondo. Or, if you want to throw Rose into it, put it in the Bulls forum. Or do the right thing, and get the **** over it already.

Luckily, I could care less if I had the respect of "Beantown Bill." I could care less about what others think about Rondo compared to Rose. I do support my team. But I am also a big NBA fan. You sure seemed to bash this thread. Is it because you have no defense to the main points I brought up?

corky831
01-09-2011, 03:51 PM
rose went 2 the free throw line 20 ****in times in the game and basically called a foul for him everytime he drove to the basket......this thread was obviously made by a fan who has so much hate for all the praise rondo gets and it bothers him so much he needs 2 start a thread about it.....rose is a great scorer...an mvp candidate......rondo is a better defender and better pure passer......

corky831
01-09-2011, 03:53 PM
and rondo has a championship.....

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 03:54 PM
rose went 2 the free throw line 20 ****in times in the game and basically called a foul for him everytime he drove to the basket......this thread was obviously made by a fan who has so much hate for all the praise rondo gets and it bothers him so much he needs 2 start a thread about it.....rose is a great scorer...an mvp candidate......rondo is a better defender and better pure passer......

False. I already stated on the first page of this thread, I believe, that I actually love Rondo's style of play. That doesn't mean his game is banned from criticsm, is it?

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 03:55 PM
I'm not talking about when Rondo let's a man go by him and hits the ball from behind

I didn't see much pocket-picking off the type you speak of last night. But can you answer my other question about Defensive Win Shares?

blueplanet
01-09-2011, 03:56 PM
Well, Rose's defense has been better than Rondo's thus far this season...

:speechless::laugh2::laugh2:

WOW!! How much delusional bulls fans get with one regular season game (after losing to nets and philly)!! Now Imagine if the bulls actually go to ECF or Finals or wins...Derrick Rose will be named the GOAT. Mark my words. Well unfortunately you can never see the proof of this because they won't make it to the finals at least next 6/7 years.

Hustlenomics
01-09-2011, 03:56 PM
I didn't see much pocket-picking off the type you speak of last night. But can you answer my other question about Defensive Win Shares?

2.0 to 1.9? you can't be serious let's see who gets first team defense this year

kjoke
01-09-2011, 03:56 PM
didnt you not want to walk about rose...then go off and talk about rose's dws compared to rondo's

this thread was clearly a 'rondo is not good and rose is great' thread

Hustlenomics
01-09-2011, 03:57 PM
Meeks dropped 24 points on the Bulls the other day hmm

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 03:57 PM
2.0 to 1.9? you can't be serious let's see who gets first team defense this year

I'm not saying Rose is a better defender. But you said Rose plays no defense at all. Can you back up that argument or are you just spewing lies?

sargon21
01-09-2011, 03:58 PM
^ as the SG lol

god damn, people defend rondo for some reason... i don't know why

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 03:59 PM
didnt you not want to walk about rose...then go off and talk about rose's dws compared to rondo's

this thread was clearly a 'rondo is not good and rose is great' thread

No. But if he is going to bring up something false about Rose. I compared it to Rondo's stat in a similar area. I could have compared it to the rest of the league and said hey look Rose is this good. I'm trying to keep this as close to the original topic as possible but these Celtics fans (with the exception of a few reasonable ones) keep bringing up Rose and trying to down him.

Hustlenomics
01-09-2011, 04:02 PM
I'm not saying Rose is a better defender. But you said Rose plays no defense at all. Can you back up that argument or are you just spewing lies?

they have the same one and it's clear they don't play the same defense so it means nothing


^ as the SG lol

god damn, people defend rondo for some reason... i don't know why

says the Rose apologist

blueplanet
01-09-2011, 04:02 PM
Rose is not a garbage point guard. Even as a Celtics fan, I think Derrick Rose is the MVP of the NBA. Hes shown to be a complete player this year and has kept the Bulls near the top of the rankings even with injuries to their other two stars. If he could improve slightly on his defense, he would be the best pg in the league.

THIS is a fake account by a bulls fan. I can bet my first son on this.

kjoke
01-09-2011, 04:04 PM
ill put dws in perspective for you, battier has one of .9

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 04:04 PM
they have the same one and it's clear they don't play the same defense so it means nothing


Defensive Win Shares doesn't take into account what type of defense a team plays. And actually the Celtics and the Bulls play a very similar defense as Tom Thibodeau has set up both of them. Try again...

Hustlenomics
01-09-2011, 04:07 PM
ill put dws in perspective for you, battier has one of .9

and Ron Artest is 1.1 LOL

blueplanet
01-09-2011, 04:07 PM
Funny how everyone else thinks Rondo is a great defender and one of the best PG in the league and bulls fans think the opposite. Bulls fans are acting like they have just won the championship and Derrick Rose is a God. Fact is they lost last two games in a row to Nets and Philly.

kjoke
01-09-2011, 04:08 PM
kobe 1.3

kjoke
01-09-2011, 04:09 PM
Duncan and rose have the same dws

Corey
01-09-2011, 04:09 PM
Rose was nasty last night.

Dominated Rondo across the board. Hell of a game for him.

J4KOP99
01-09-2011, 04:10 PM
This thread is going nowhere fast.

blueplanet
01-09-2011, 04:10 PM
^ as the SG lol

god damn, people defend rondo for some reason... i don't know why

Because neutral fans think rationally and think Rondo is one of the best PG's in the league if not the best. It's not as if only Celtics fans are saying this. Pretty much 99% of neutral fans agree on this except the bulls fans.

RZZZA
01-09-2011, 04:12 PM
Funny how everyone else think Rondo is a great defender and one of the best PG in the league and bulls fans think the opposite. Bulls fans are acting they have just won the championship and Derrick Rose is a God. Fact is they lost last two games in a row to Nets and Philly.

ehh...not every bulls fans


and rose is a demi-God at best

kjoke
01-09-2011, 04:15 PM
heres something else on dws

part of it is due to player minutes played / team minutes played,

and if im not mistaken....rondo was injured for several games and the celitcs still played...

sargon21
01-09-2011, 04:48 PM
Because neutral fans think rationally and think Rondo is one of the best PG's in the league if not the best. It's not as if only Celtics fans are saying this. Pretty much 99% of neutral fans agree on this except the bulls fans.

Most fans and Bulls fans alike recognize Rondo as an elite to semi-elite PG. And no one thinks he's the best PG in the league. But, most Bulls fans think Rose is better. Me personally, I think Rose is better because Rondo has too many holes in his game.

ChiSox219
01-09-2011, 04:55 PM
Rose doesn't play defense he just worries about scoring the ball


Here's what Synergy says on Rose vs Rondo (defense):

Rose

Overall (100%): .76 PPP (#29)
P&R Ball Handler (47.8%): .75 PPP (#43)
Isolation (18.2%): .59 PPP (#19)
Spot Up (17.5%): .86 PPP (#53)


Rondo

Overall (100%): .78 PPP (#40)
P&R Ball Handler (53.4%): .74 PPP (#38)
Isolation (11.3%): .72 PPP (#55)
Spot Up (20.3%): .85 PPP (#51)


Format is:
Type of play (% of total plays): Points Per Played allowed (NBA rank)

Rose has been one of the best iso defenders in the league this year. He contests everything and has made a jump similar to how dramatically Durant improved defensively last season.


:speechless::laugh2::laugh2:

WOW!! How much delusional bulls fans get with one regular season game (after losing to nets and philly)!! Now Imagine if the bulls actually go to ECF or Finals or wins...Derrick Rose will be named the GOAT. Mark my words. Well unfortunately you can never see the proof of this because they won't make it to the finals at least next 6/7 years.

:up:

blueplanet
01-09-2011, 05:08 PM
Most fans and Bulls fans alike recognize Rondo as an elite to semi-elite PG. And no one thinks he's the best PG in the league. But, most Bulls fans think Rose is better. Me personally, I think Rose is better because Rondo has too many holes in his game.

Thanks for proving my point.

farren.louis
01-09-2011, 05:09 PM
It;s the regular season not playoffs im more than sure rondo defense tightin up once they get to the playoffs

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 05:20 PM
Here's what Synergy says on Rose vs Rondo (defense):

Rose

Overall (100%): .76 PPP (#29)
P&R Ball Handler (47.8%): .75 PPP (#43)
Isolation (18.2%): .59 PPP (#19)
Spot Up (17.5%): .86 PPP (#53)


Rondo

Overall (100%): .78 PPP (#40)
P&R Ball Handler (53.4%): .74 PPP (#38)
Isolation (11.3%): .72 PPP (#55)
Spot Up (20.3%): .85 PPP (#51)


Format is:
Type of play (% of total plays): Points Per Played allowed (NBA rank)

Rose has been one of the best iso defenders in the league this year. He contests everything and has made a jump similar to how dramatically Durant improved defensively last season.

:up:

Very interesting information. Thanks for sharing.

D1JM
01-09-2011, 07:01 PM
What kills me with all of this is Rondo could have played this game in a cast from ankle to mid thigh and this ****** would still post this garbage. Do you even think before you post, or is your hate so blinding that you ignore the fact that you make yourself look like .. well, this, because you can't get over a playoff series loss?

If the Bulls face and beat the Celtics this year, you won't find me here next year acting like a child. I'll be pissed, I'll get over it, and there will be another season. Jesus, you act like Rondo raped your mother.

wtf are you talking about. all i said was rondo likes to gamble on defense and it led to his bigs getting in foul trouble. i dont care if he was playing in a wheelchair out in the floor. Your just trying to find an excuse of why rose was blowing by him last night. If he isnt healthy, than he shouldnt be playing.

corky831
01-09-2011, 07:11 PM
when u take as many shots as players such as kobe, rose, lebron, durant, etc. of course they r gonna average 20-25 ppg.......the celtics have so many options they dont need for rondo to be a scorer, they need him to do exactly what he does, play good defense and a superior passer

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 07:13 PM
when u take as many shots as players such as kobe, rose, lebron, durant, etc. of course they r gonna average 20-25 ppg.......the celtics have so many options they dont need for rondo to be a scorer, they need him to do exactly what he does, play good defense and a superior passer

Well Rondo had 13 points on 14 shots last night. But this thread is about Rondo's defense. And the fact is last night Rose had 36 points on only 19 shots, with Rondo being the main man "defending" him.

SteveNash
01-09-2011, 07:14 PM
Rondo isn't some sort of great lockdown defender. Has he ever been billed as such?

And why are Rose fans criticizing another players defense?

Hustlenomics
01-09-2011, 07:14 PM
Well Rondo had 13 points on 14 shots last night. But this thread is about Rondo's defense. And the fact is last night Rose had 36 points on only 19 shots, with Rondo being the main man "defending" him.

15 coming from the line

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 07:15 PM
15 coming from the line

If Rondo had the ability to stay in front of him, he wouldn't have gone to the line that much...

checkit
01-09-2011, 07:18 PM
This is a good thread. Good opinions and not one-sided like these threads are some time. Great read ya'll

KnicksorBust
01-09-2011, 07:48 PM
Best scorers in the league vs the best defenders in the league? HMMMMM 9 out of 10 times the scorers are going to get theirs but just be made to work a little harder for it. Despite this game tonight Rondo IS an Elite defender.

/thread

Thank you!

Keep in mind this is the same Derrick Rose that shot 8 for 19 with 6 TO's in a loss vs. Rondo their first matchup of the year: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AkySZd3zy.97Ll2tWPp7nxLMPaB4?gid=201 0110502Derrick

And then shot 7 for 17 with 4 TO's in a loss vs. Rondo in their second matchup: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=Ahpp66SLNnYbYyl9G4ANYwnMPaB4?gid=201 0120302

Put those 3 games together and where are you.

corky831
01-09-2011, 07:56 PM
If Rondo had the ability to stay in front of him, he wouldn't have gone to the line that much...

well the way that game was officiated......if rondo stayed in front of him, he would have been fouled out by the 2nd quarter......no need for rondo 2 pick up unneccessay fouls that they wouldve called when he is the court leader for the celtics

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 08:02 PM
well the way that game was officiated......if rondo stayed in front of him, he would have been fouled out by the 2nd quarter......no need for rondo 2 pick up unneccessay fouls that they wouldve called when he is the court leader for the celtics

Are you seriously questioning some of the calls Rose got?

And no, if he stayed in front of him, he forces Rose to pass or take a tough shot. Instead Rose drove at full speed into the lane forccing the Celtic's bigs to foul or give up an easy lay-up.

thekmp211
01-09-2011, 08:04 PM
why does derrick ****ing rose have to be brought up in every thread? can we not judge rondo without mentioning derrick rose?

rondo gambles a lot, but some of it also has to do with the defensive system the celtics employ. they like to rotate a lot and use their bigs to disrupt guard play.

Super.
01-09-2011, 08:06 PM
We're going to judge Rondo via one game?

I would be disappointed. Then I remember I was in the NBA forum

Hustlenomics
01-09-2011, 08:07 PM
Thank you!

Keep in mind this is the same Derrick Rose that shot 8 for 19 with 6 TO's in a loss vs. Rondo their first matchup of the year: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AkySZd3zy.97Ll2tWPp7nxLMPaB4?gid=201 0110502Derrick

And then shot 7 for 17 with 4 TO's in a loss vs. Rondo in their second matchup: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=Ahpp66SLNnYbYyl9G4ANYwnMPaB4?gid=201 0120302

Put those 3 games together and where are you.

they don't want to remember that

corky831
01-09-2011, 08:10 PM
ya....its the hate that all rose fans have for rondo bc they r upset that another pg in the east can get some praise besides their beloved rose....everyone knows rose is a very good player....but rondo and rose r 2 different type of pg's.....i consider rose 2 be more of a sg

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 08:15 PM
ya....its the hate that all rose fans have for rondo bc they r upset that another pg in the east can get some praise besides their beloved rose....everyone knows rose is a very good player....but rondo and rose r 2 different type of pg's.....i consider rose 2 be more of a sg

Changing the topic doens't improve Rondo's defense. :eyebrow:

BkOriginalOne
01-09-2011, 08:16 PM
Rondos 4th game back and he did not shutdown Derrick Rose (with one on one D) during a game during Rose' break out year.
If KG were playing, Boozer wouldn't haven't been going off and would allow Rondo to play tighter, just saying.
Also, when you are top 3 in steals for the last 3 seasons and make all NBA Defensive teams and have been asked to guard Kobe Bryant in the finals, I think you are a good defender

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 08:17 PM
Rondos 4th game back and he did not shutdown Derrick Rose (with one on one D) during a game during Rose' break out year.
If KG were playing, Boozer wouldn't haven't been going off and would allow Rondo to play tighter, just saying.
Also, when you are top 3 in steals for the last 3 seasons and make all NBA Defensive teams and have been asked to guard Kobe Bryant in the finals, I think you are a good defender

Agreed. Key word, good.

D Roses Bulls
01-09-2011, 08:18 PM
Rondos 4th game back and he did not shutdown Derrick Rose (with one on one D) during a game during Rose' break out year.
If KG were playing, Boozer wouldn't haven't been going off and would allow Rondo to play tighter, just saying.
Also, when you are top 3 in steals for the last 3 seasons and make all NBA Defensive teams and have been asked to guard Kobe Bryant in the finals, I think you are a good defender

thats cause allen and pierce weren't having much success against him and neither did rondo really.

corky831
01-09-2011, 08:22 PM
ill give props when rose is a 1st team all-defensive PG.......

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 08:27 PM
ill give props when rose is a 1st team all-defensive PG.......

Take a look at Rose's numbers defensively in ChiSox 219's post just a few pages ago if you want. They'll show Rose is right on par with Rondo defensively this year. But this thread is not about Derrick Rose nor any PG other than Rondo.

tonyd3b54
01-09-2011, 08:30 PM
i contest you to name a pg who is better defensively than rondo... billups maybe but i havent seen much of him since he went to the nuggets so he couldve slipped in the last few years... i cant name one better so how if this is the case how is he not elite?

corky831
01-09-2011, 08:46 PM
Take a look at Rose's numbers defensively in ChiSox 219's post just a few pages ago if you want. They'll show Rose is right on par with Rondo defensively this year. But this thread is not about Derrick Rose nor any PG other than Rondo.

well if theyre close in defensive categories....we'll see if rose is 1st team defensive pg at the end of the yr......and ik this thread is about rondo, but when u have a sig of rose over rondo.....im pretty sure ik y u started this thread.....neways for the yr: rondo 2, rose 1

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 08:55 PM
well if theyre close in defensive categories....we'll see if rose is 1st team defensive pg at the end of the yr......and ik this thread is about rondo, but when u have a sig of rose over rondo.....im pretty sure ik y u started this thread.....neways for the yr: rondo 2, rose 1

Ok here you go: http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=572691

If you would like to debate who is better between Rose and Rondo, head to that thread. This thread is reserved for debating Rajon Rondo's defense.

daricoliver
01-09-2011, 09:29 PM
Rondo is a very good defender, lets not sell him short; however he consistently gets beaten off the dribble and makes up for it with steals and poking the ball from behind. Perhaps he even does this on purpose. With that being said, he is hardly a lock down defender and Rose proved that last night, absolutely torching him. To say he is the best defensive point guard in the league is arguable. I think he is in the conversation along with Deron Williams and CP3. I would take CP3 over him defensively any day of the week.

checkit
01-09-2011, 09:35 PM
thats cause allen and pierce weren't having much success against him and neither did rondo really.
he got shut down in game 7. infamous 6 out of 24?? wow.

SteveNash
01-09-2011, 09:36 PM
Here's what Synergy says on Rose vs Rondo (defense):

Rose

Overall (100%): .76 PPP (#29)
P&R Ball Handler (47.8%): .75 PPP (#43)
Isolation (18.2%): .59 PPP (#19)
Spot Up (17.5%): .86 PPP (#53)


Rondo

Overall (100%): .78 PPP (#40)
P&R Ball Handler (53.4%): .74 PPP (#38)
Isolation (11.3%): .72 PPP (#55)
Spot Up (20.3%): .85 PPP (#51)


Format is:
Type of play (% of total plays): Points Per Played allowed (NBA rank)

Rose has been one of the best iso defenders in the league this year. He contests everything and has made a jump similar to how dramatically Durant improved defensively last season.

I should point out, these stats are very unreliable.

sargon21
01-09-2011, 09:36 PM
^ I think Deron's the best, mainly because of his size.

sargon21
01-09-2011, 09:36 PM
I should point out, these stats are very unreliable.

I'm sure they are lol

ElMarroAfamado
01-09-2011, 09:38 PM
Rondo is a very good defender, lets not sell him short; however he consistently gets beaten off the dribble and makes up for it with steals and poking the ball from behind. Perhaps he even does this on purpose. With that being said, he is hardly a lock down defender and Rose proved that last night, absolutely torching him. To say he is the best defensive point guard in the league is arguable. I think he is in the conversation along with Deron Williams and CP3. I would take CP3 over him defensively any day of the week.

Well said....

SteveNash
01-09-2011, 09:41 PM
I'm sure they are lol

Who do you think is better defensively, Chris Bosh or Dwight Howard?

sargon21
01-09-2011, 09:44 PM
Who do you think is better defensively, Chris Bosh or Dwight Howard?

Howard, but it would seem to me that Bosh is also playing pretty solid defense if he's on the #1 defensive team in the league...

SteveNash
01-09-2011, 09:48 PM
Howard, but it would seem to me that Bosh is also playing pretty solid defense if he's on the #1 defensive team in the league...

Synergy says:

Dwight Howard:
Overall .92 PPP (#246)
Isolation .86 PPP (#134)
Post-Up .82 PPP (#56)
P&R Man .89 PPP (#15)
Spot Up 1.07 PPP (#205)

Chris Bosh:
Overall .79 PPP (#52)
Isolation .65 PPP (#27)
Post-Up .67 PPP (#14)
P&R Man .83 PPP (#10)
Spot Up .92 PPP (#96)

As I said, not reliable.

IamKaiserSoze
01-09-2011, 09:49 PM
always been some sort of rose vs rondo smack talk here. they are both studs but they have a different set of skills. rose is much better driving the lane and he has begun to develop an outside jumper. rondo is a better defender and is a much better rebounder. rondo will also be getting more assists, although the players he passes to being able to actually score sure don't hurt. other than them actually playing the same postion they aren't really all that much alike.

sargon21
01-09-2011, 09:50 PM
Maybe Bosh is just playing better D this year, possible?

chris34
01-09-2011, 10:08 PM
Bulls lost to NJ and Philly true and the C's have lost to the Pistons, Raptors and Cavs.

masalex1205
01-09-2011, 10:25 PM
Dumb Thread, Rondo is elite

Rondo is hurt and he was guarding Rose who is probably the best in the league at getting by his man

SteveNash
01-09-2011, 10:37 PM
Maybe Bosh is just playing better D this year, possible?

Even if that was true (it definitely isn't) the gap certainly wouldn't be the size of the grand canyon like Synergy says.

K1NG.
01-09-2011, 10:38 PM
I think Rondo is a decent defender and he is one of those players that I really enjoy watching. He is all over the floor creating turnovers and plays the best he can.

jasonbird
01-09-2011, 10:54 PM
Don't get me wrong; I'm not arguing that Rondo is a bad defender. His anticipation in the passing lane and hands around the ball are incredible. However, combining this with his inability to stop the drive convine me that he is merely a good defender, not elite.

Thoughts?

Most of the time ,he isnt a good defenser..

but..

I saw him give Rose or some other guy a good block in the game Celtics v.s. bulls


lol

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 11:01 PM
Most of the time ,he isnt a good defenser..

but..

I saw him give Rose or some other guy a good block in the game Celtics v.s. bulls


lol

You lost all credibility right there.

What?
01-10-2011, 12:47 AM
Synergy says:

Dwight Howard:
Overall .92 PPP (#246)
Isolation .86 PPP (#134)
Post-Up .82 PPP (#56)
P&R Man .89 PPP (#15)
Spot Up 1.07 PPP (#205)

Chris Bosh:
Overall .79 PPP (#52)
Isolation .65 PPP (#27)
Post-Up .67 PPP (#14)
P&R Man .83 PPP (#10)
Spot Up .92 PPP (#96)

As I said, not reliable.

The differnce also has alot to do with the positions they play Howard guarding opposing teams C in the paint and is more likely to be guarding high percentage shots while Bosh is more likely to be guarding opposing teams Pf from outside the paint.

This isn't a problem for Rose and Rondo since they play the same position

checkit
01-10-2011, 04:11 AM
Bulls lost to NJ and Philly true and the C's have lost to the Pistons, Raptors and Cavs.

don't forget that the Bulls have lost to the Clippers too.

kblo247
01-10-2011, 04:18 AM
If I were to judge Rondo's defense it would be better than Paul, Nash, and Iverson BUT worse that a younger Kidd or Payton.

Rondo is incredibly long, quick, and can get into little guys. The problem with him is that he has a frame that allows for him to be bullied and exploited under the right circumstances. Rose bullied Rondo off the dribble, Deron has bullied him off the dribble, and in game 3 of the Finals the Fisher and Kobe pick and roll was used on one side of the floor solely to attack him since he didn't have the strength to contest Kobe or deter Fisher when he put his head down in that 4th quarter.

Rondo knows that he lacks size and can be bullied and he makes up for that by letting a bigger guy go by him and trying to knock his handle loose from the backside. It is something that Ron Artest commonly does against guys who are flat out quicker than him with the ball in his hand.

Rondo isn't a bad defender, but as an individual defender he can be exploited. He just so happens to not be exploited as much because of a team defensive scheme that Boston employs

LA_Raiders
01-10-2011, 04:45 AM
Yeah, we can call him Rono now...