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View Full Version : Confidence Issues? Not with NBA Point Guards; Dunning-Kruger Effect? Maybe.



TheHoopsProphet
01-08-2011, 05:05 PM
When I was a young child in Dosseldorf, my grandfather always tried to give me advice on how to conquer women. Seeing how I was poor, ugly, and stupid I decided by 12 that I would forever be alone. But he had other plans. He would give me many tips that are probably not appropriate to repeat here (I will say that it involves kegel exercises, a banana, orange juice, and something that is illegal in the state of Montana), but the one tip he would timelessly tell me that stuck with me till this day, “Attitude is everything.”

“Hoopsprophet, you could have the smallest penis on the entire southside of Dusseldorf and not a euro in your pocket, but if you are convinced that you don’t need that euro to buy a woman’s affection and realize that there is always penis enlargment surgical procedures, you can win any woman over. Any woman.”

Boy was he wrong. Now I sleep with fat women and hand money over to disease-ridden prostitutes on the Hollywood Sunset strip.

But apparently the current bevy of NBA point guards heeded to his advice and have benefited from it. If all the trajectory of these current athlete’s careers continue in the same fashion that it has been, it would appear that almost half of the starting NBA point guards are destined for a Hall of Fame induction (Westbrook, Rose, Paul, Evans, Rondo, D. Williams, Wall, Parker, Curry, Kidd, Nash). And many more have made an all-star appearance or appear set to make one in the near future (Harris, Ellis, Nelson, Arenas, Beaubois, Davis, Felton, M. Williams, Jennings, Lawson, Brooks)

What in god’s name is going on? Is it the officiating? Is it the trend of NBA coaching? Is it the godfather Magic Johnson’s unprotected affairs with all those woman in the 80’s? Maybe. Or maybe it’s the manifest destiny, the self-fulfilling prophecy of these NBA point guards. If they believe enough that they’re great players, than they will be great players. Mind over matter, entitlement over humility. That’s American philosophy 101. Just look at the math sector of our education system. A recent poll showed that in spite of being in the lower tier of mathematics in developed nations, we are perhaps the most confident in ourselves of our intellectual capacity in said department.

In a recent loss the Nets had to the Timber wolves (a matchup that would never occur if LBJ controlled the universe) the all-scrub team stand-out Devin Harris stated to the media: “It starts with me. They go as I go. I know that, so when we have an outing like that, especially in the third quarter, when we don’t score for six minutes, it’s going to be my responsibility.”

Boy, with that confidence he’d have an easier time convincing me 2+2=5 than someone at MIT. And sure he made an all-star appearance a few years ago (unfairly snubbing Vince Carter), but he’s nothing more than an inefficient point guard who is quick with the ball. And yea he’s probably the best player on this Nets roster, but Courtney Kardashian is also the smartest sister.

Media darling Derrick Rose has self-christened himself as the deserving MVP of the league. A few noggin headed critics seem to agree, apparently oblivious to the changes that happened around him: Gibson and Noah’s coming-out party, Tom Thibodeau, Carlos Boozer. He hasn’t really accomplished anything let alone a jumpshot, yet he already likens himself to a Kobe Bryant prodigy and an MVP-caliber player. A player who’s stats are not much better than TJ Ford’s thinks he has the right to take over Lebron James’ reign as the league’s most valuable player.

Raon Rondo (without a J), think he’s not only the best player on his team, but the best point guard in the league. The Boston Celtics’ official Gatorade-tender Von Wafer told a local journalist in an interview, “He [Raon] believes he’s the best point guard in the NBA. He really, really believes that. He’s not just saying that. He really feels he can average 20 assists a game.” Raon has created a formula where Future Hall of Famers + speed - history divided by perspective = the best point guard in the NBA.

The league’s influx of great point guards appears to have been stimulated by confidence. Hell, I myself am confident in that assessment. D FISHER FOR MVP (Or Sportsman of the year)!!!!!

The_Mac22
01-08-2011, 05:11 PM
wut

blastmasta26
01-08-2011, 05:26 PM
:laugh: Great post.

smith&wesson
01-08-2011, 05:28 PM
he does have a point, we do have a lot of really good point gaurds where as centres are very limited. almost every point gaurd in the league has has been an all star or is almost for sure going to be one..

paul
d will
nash
rondo
d rose
parker
ellis
billups
kidd
wall
harris
arenas
nelson

and im sure im missing some.

Swashcuff
01-08-2011, 05:49 PM
he does have a point, we do have a lot of really good point gaurds where as centres are very limited. almost every point gaurd in the league has has been an all star or is almost for sure going to be one..

paul
d will
nash
rondo
d rose
parker
ellis
billups
kidd
wall
harris
arenas
nelson

and im sure im missing some.

Jrue Holiday

One of only 6 20 year olds in league history to average 14 points 6 assists and 3 rebs, well at least he is on pace to. LeBron, Chris Paul, Magic and Derrick Rose are the others as well as John Wall so far this season.

As a matter of a fact his play is steadily improving over the course of this season and he's expect to be around 16, 7 and 4 by season's end. So yeah he has all star potential. May not be a long shot for him to be one by next season.

There's also Steph Curry and Monta isn't a PG.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-08-2011, 06:36 PM
Boy was he wrong. Now I sleep with fat women and hand money over to disease-ridden prostitutes on the Hollywood Sunset strip.

This made my day:laugh2:

Chacarron
01-08-2011, 06:41 PM
Is it the godfather Magic Johnson’s unprotected affairs with all those woman in the 80’s? Maybe.

That's a good one.

sargon21
01-08-2011, 06:44 PM
when you said D rose doesn't have a J you lost credibility, not like I read that whole thing tho

CB29
01-08-2011, 06:54 PM
lol most awesome story to start a thread ever. :laugh:

Cano4prez
01-08-2011, 07:06 PM
Lolwut?

DitchDat
01-08-2011, 07:12 PM
I love this write-up and to a certain extent I agree with you.

To me, the prototype of the inefficient "point guard" who undeservedly believes he is best fit to run a team is Allen Iverson. NBA fans love speedy guards and dramatic storylines. "With the ball in his hands, this team is going to take the next step". While actually, there are very few players in the league know how to effectively run the show. I think guys like Tyreke Evans, John Wall and Russ Westbrook are more guilty of this than guys like CP3 and D-Will though.

Great post, I hope people actually read it before commenting. Interesting read.

Crackadalic
01-08-2011, 07:17 PM
I knew i was gonna laugh when i seen who posted this. I do agree we live in the era of point guards now and to me i think its great

OG "Dee" LOCc
01-08-2011, 07:24 PM
This was the best post I've ever read in my career as a PSD member.

Rosh
01-08-2011, 07:30 PM
Media darling Derrick Rose has self-christened himself as the deserving MVP of the league. A few noggin headed critics seem to agree, apparently oblivious to the changes that happened around him: Gibson and Noah’s coming-out party, Tom Thibodeau, Carlos Boozer. He hasn’t really accomplished anything let alone a jumpshot, yet he already likens himself to a Kobe Bryant prodigy and an MVP-caliber player. A player who’s stats are not much better than TJ Ford’s thinks he has the right to take over Lebron James’ reign as the league’s most valuable player.

What a misinformed assessment. Rose has never "christened himself" anything. The only thing he has said is, "Why not me?" Which claims nothing. He has the confidence to say he can be the most valuable player in the league, but he never said he was.

Gibson's coming out party? Happened last year buddy. He has not been the same player this season. Noah has been out since early December and will be out till late February/early March. Thibodeau has made him from a subpar defender to an average one, nothing more. And Carlos Boozer didn't even play the first two months of the season. Rose has had to carry a lot of the load himself. He was one of the scoring leaders in the NBA with all the injuries.

And I'd love to see the line where he likened himself to a Kobe Bryant prodigy. That'd be great, thanks.

The_Mac22
01-08-2011, 07:39 PM
he does have a point, we do have a lot of really good point gaurds where as centres are very limited. almost every point gaurd in the league has has been an all star or is almost for sure going to be one..

paul
d will
nash
rondo
d rose
parker
ellis
billups
kidd
wall
harris
arenas
nelson

and im sure im missing some.

Stephen Curry??

Draco
01-08-2011, 07:47 PM
And many more have made an all-star appearance or appear set to make one in the near future...
...What in god’s name is going on? Is it the officiating? Is it the trend of NBA coaching?


Great post, I hope people actually read it before commenting. Interesting read.

it's an idiotic post along with the majority of posts from the OP... at least he's not linking his craptacular blog this time.

Here's a sensible read on the same question.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/24/sports/basketball/24guards.html

smith&wesson
01-08-2011, 07:53 PM
Jrue Holiday

One of only 6 20 year olds in league history to average 14 points 6 assists and 3 rebs, well at least he is on pace to. LeBron, Chris Paul, Magic and Derrick Rose are the others as well as John Wall so far this season.

As a matter of a fact his play is steadily improving over the course of this season and he's expect to be around 16, 7 and 4 by season's end. So yeah he has all star potential. May not be a long shot for him to be one by next season.

There's also Steph Curry and Monta isn't a PG.

I knew there was some i was forgetting, no doubt jrue holiday has a bright future,


Stephen Curry??

I always thought of curry and ellis as combo gaurds who could play both pg and sg but no doubt curry is up there too how could i forget.

like i mentioned in my original post there def some im forgetting, but my point was that we have a alot of pretty dam good pg's in this league.

D Roses Bulls
01-08-2011, 07:59 PM
this guy is trying too hard now.

dtmagnet
01-08-2011, 08:08 PM
Good post, Bulls fans stop being so butthurt every time someone says something negative about your loverboy Rose.

DitchDat
01-08-2011, 08:08 PM
it's an idiotic post along with the majority of posts from the OP... at least he's not linking his craptacular blog this time.

Here's a sensible read on the same question.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/24/sports/basketball/24guards.html

I like the writing and the insight, so to me it's a great post. At least there's some thought put behind it. I didn't say I completely agree with the thread maker, I just like the thread and I stated that I prefer people to read it in its entirety before putting up an irrelevant comment. What is wrong my thinking or statement?

Cubs Win
01-08-2011, 08:16 PM
What a misinformed assessment. Rose has never "christened himself" anything. The only thing he has said is, "Why not me?" Which claims nothing. He has the confidence to say he can be the most valuable player in the league, but he never said he was.

Gibson's coming out party? Happened last year buddy. He has not been the same player this season. Noah has been out since early December and will be out till late February/early March. Thibodeau has made him from a subpar defender to an average one, nothing more. And Carlos Boozer didn't even play the first two months of the season. Rose has had to carry a lot of the load himself. He was one of the scoring leaders in the NBA with all the injuries.

And I'd love to see the line where he likened himself to a Kobe Bryant prodigy. That'd be great, thanks.

This. Also that line about Rose's J, hilarious. He's shooting 38.5% from three so far this year, in addition to being one of the top 5 mid-range jump shooters for the entire 2009-2010 season. I guess haters don't always take the time to get their facts straight. :pity:

Draco
01-08-2011, 08:23 PM
I like the writing and the insight, so to me it's a great post. At least there's some thought put behind it. I didn't say I completely agree with the thread maker, I just like the thread and I stated that I prefer people to read it in its entirety before putting up an irrelevant comment. What is wrong my thinking or statement?

lol different strokes for different folks i guess.

asandhu23
01-08-2011, 08:35 PM
MONTA IS A SHOOTING GUARD, not a point guard

TheHoopsProphet
01-08-2011, 08:38 PM
What a misinformed assessment. Rose has never "christened himself" anything. The only thing he has said is, "Why not me?" Which claims nothing. He has the confidence to say he can be the most valuable player in the league, but he never said he was.

Gibson's coming out party? Happened last year buddy. He has not been the same player this season. Noah has been out since early December and will be out till late February/early March. Thibodeau has made him from a subpar defender to an average one, nothing more. And Carlos Boozer didn't even play the first two months of the season. Rose has had to carry a lot of the load himself. He was one of the scoring leaders in the NBA with all the injuries.

And I'd love to see the line where he likened himself to a Kobe Bryant prodigy. That'd be great, thanks.


06-07 TJ FORD: 14 ppg, 7apg, 3.1 rpg, 44FG%, 1.3 spg, 82FT% 29.9 MPG
10-11 DE ROSE: 24 ppg, 8apg, 4.4rpg, 45FG%, 1.1 spg, 78FT% 37.6 MPG

Rose's USG RATE is also 30.58 versus 26.08 USG RATE of 06-07 Ford. So not only is rose getting nearly a quarter's worth more minutes, but when he's on the court the ball is in his hands much more than Ford's was. SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECIES FTW!!!! If Ford had more commercial and shoedeals in 2006-07, maybe he'd get more PT

and lets not turn this thread into a rose thread. Unless you want to talk about Rose's mustache, cause I like talking about facial hair in the nba. What do you think of his mustache anyway?

RZZZA
01-08-2011, 08:39 PM
Where he started badmouthing Rose and Rondo is where he lost me

tonyd3b54
01-08-2011, 08:56 PM
Good post, Bulls fans stop being so butthurt every time someone says something negative about your loverboy Rose.

THIS shut up bulls fans...

anyways i thought this was pretty funny and he is right there are a great deal of VERY good pgs when compared to big men. i think mostly because so many big men are trying to be guards and keep stepping away from the net when if they just learned how to fundamentally use their athleticism near the rim the could be really good

RZZZA
01-08-2011, 09:02 PM
how about...you shut up?


it's not just 'something negative', it's flat out wrong. Rose has a jumpshot and he never proclaimed himself an MVP.

cargobox
01-08-2011, 09:03 PM
small penis. LMAO

Draco
01-08-2011, 09:08 PM
Where he started badmouthing Rose and Rondo is where he lost me

Where he failed to make a shred of sense is where he lost me.

TheHoopsProphet
01-08-2011, 09:57 PM
Rose is much more dangerous from three — he has gone from shooting 26.7 percent last season to 38.1 percent this season. However, his shooting from 16 to 23 feet has dropped from 44 percent last year to 41 percent this year. From 10 to 15 feet, it is even worse. Rose’s shooting percentage from that area on the court has gone from 50 percent last year to 27.5 percent this year.

Remember Bulls fans, Derrick Rose could care less about you. Carry on.

Draco
01-08-2011, 10:02 PM
If Ford had more commercial and shoedeals in 2006-07, maybe he'd get more PT

I'm sure that's what Ford's coach was thinking when decided how many minutes Ford would play..

Ford could care less about you. Carry on.

TheHoopsProphet
01-08-2011, 10:09 PM
I'm sure that's what Ford's coach was thinking when decided how many minutes Ford would play..

Ford could care less about you. Carry on.

I am not sure why you are making this personal. I merely stated Rose is not MVP-caliber and has no jumpshot (as statistically ascertained), yet still considers himself worthy of said award. And this is not about the merits of Rose as an mvp as it is about the brash psychological threshold that has swept over NBA point guards like the cardiovascular epidemic in our country. I think Rose is a good player, for the record. And though I'm not gay, if I had to have sex with any man in order to save humanity, it would be Derrick Rose.

edit: It would be Colby. But you know, aside from Colby.
double edit: Actually, Vlade Divac would be second. So after Colby and Vlade.

third edit: I forgot about Slava Medvedenko. After Colby and Vlade and Slava, I would have sex with Rose to save humanity.



Fourth edit: Okay, this is my final edit I promise! But i put some serious thought into this, and compiled a top 10 list of which NBA players I would have sex with in order to save humanity by preference with explanation.

1) Colby "captain crunch time" Bryant (no explanation needed, GOAT)
2) Vlade Divac (a neighboring hero where I lived, perhaps even legend. Has nice manly, scrufed look to him)
3) Slava Medvedenko (energy and passion that surely transcends to the bedroom)
4) Sasha Vujacic (see Slava)
5) DJ Mbenga (A body even the pagan gods of the Congos must envy)
6) Rashard Lewis (for the money, he can take me to a lot of great restaurants after the sex)
7) Derrick Rose (quick, effervescent, mustache)
8) Adam Morrison (kinky mustache, plus he won a championship for the Lakers)
9) Rudy Gay (see how much his name lives up to his game)
10) Colby (for a second go around to double check the world is saved)

So I had to have sex with an NBA player in order to save the world, Derrick is seventh. See? I don't hate him, so long as he goes easy on me.

Draco
01-08-2011, 10:22 PM
I am not sure why you are making this personal.

I'm not. I think your analysis is poorly thought out.



I merely stated Rose is not MVP-caliber and has no jumpshot (as statistically ascertained),

His TS% and Efg% are the same as last seasons (when he was an elite mid-range shooter. not simply good, but elite) probably because while his mid range game has slipped he's hitting his three pointers. I can't describe the reason other than perhaps the Bulls are lacking in shooters to spread the floor sufficiently for Rose to his shots or that they lack a secondary ball handler to get him the ball in situations where he has a better chance of making his shots. Regardless, he's making three's so to say that he doesn't have a shot is ridiculous.




yet still considers himself worthy of said award. And this is not about the merits of Rose as an mvp as it is about the brash psychological threshold that has swept over NBA point guards like the cardiovascular epidemic in our country.

What a load of pure BS.



I think Rose is a good player, for the record. And though I'm not gay, if I had to have sex with any man in order to save humanity, it would be Derrick Rose.

how insightful.

Draco
01-08-2011, 10:28 PM
If anyone seriously cared about why PGs are so successful in today's NBA they'd read the NY Times article that I linked. It's not a big secret. Anyone who really follows the sport knows the reasons.

BALLER71
01-08-2011, 10:33 PM
He hasn’t really accomplished anything let alone a jumpshot, yet he already likens himself to a Kobe Bryant prodigy and an MVP-caliber player. A player who’s stats are not much better than TJ Ford’s thinks he has the right to take over Lebron James’ reign as the league’s most valuable player.

Rawwwww.

THE GIPPER
01-08-2011, 10:54 PM
lol TheHoopsProphit is easily the funniest guy on PSD. Actually makes some pretty good points too.

Draco
01-08-2011, 10:59 PM
yeah.. there are a lot of really good pgs in the league. good point.

JasonJohnHorn
01-09-2011, 11:34 AM
lol
thanks for that
best post i've read in a while
lol

White_Mike
01-09-2011, 11:47 AM
Good post, Bulls fans stop being so butthurt every time someone says something negative about your loverboy Rose.
Win.

lakers4sho
01-09-2011, 12:36 PM
This is epic.

Kashmir13579
01-09-2011, 01:37 PM
Media darling Derrick Rose has self-christened himself as the deserving MVP of the league. A few noggin headed critics seem to agree, apparently oblivious to the changes that happened around him: Gibson and Noah’s coming-out party, Tom Thibodeau, Carlos Boozer. He hasn’t really accomplished anything let alone a jumpshot, yet he already likens himself to a Kobe Bryant prodigy and an MVP-caliber player. A player who’s stats are not much better than TJ Ford’s thinks he has the right to take over Lebron James’ reign as the league’s most valuable player.

Raon Rondo (without a J), think he’s not only the best player on his team, but the best point guard in the league. The Boston Celtics’ official Gatorade-tender Von Wafer told a local journalist in an interview, “He [Raon] believes he’s the best point guard in the NBA. He really, really believes that. He’s not just saying that. He really feels he can average 20 assists a game.” Raon has created a formula where Future Hall of Famers + speed - history divided by perspective = the best point guard in the NBA.


wow you really nailed it on the head. great read, man. i was laughing my *** off at times.

Kashmir13579
01-09-2011, 01:42 PM
yeah.. there are a lot of really good pgs in the league. good point.

stop acting so butthurt. he didn't say anything about Rose or Rondo that isn't true.

it was a good read man. if you didn't think it was funny, intelligent, and witty, may god help you. that is all.

DitchDat
01-09-2011, 02:31 PM
stop acting so butthurt. he didn't say anything about Rose or Rondo that isn't true.

it was a good read man. if you didn't think it was funny, intelligent, and witty, may god help you. that is all.

co-sign. Better than most of the other thoughtless threads on here.

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 02:45 PM
stop acting so butthurt. he didn't say anything about Rose or Rondo that isn't true.

it was a good read man. if you didn't think it was funny, intelligent, and witty, may god help you. that is all.

So Rose hasn't improved his jumper? ********. I'm not going to go into all this for a hater. So refer to Rosh's post earlier in this thread if you want to see how incorrect the OP is on Rose.

RZZZA
01-09-2011, 04:11 PM
it was slightly funny and witty up until he started saying stupid **** about two stars that aren't even true.

:facepalm:


next time don't lie or say misinformed things and maybe bulls fans won't act "all butthurt"

arkanian215
01-09-2011, 04:20 PM
A lot of good 2 guards now are training to be PG's. You get these converts early because they'll have the size advantage and today's athletes are better than those your father grew up with (on average). They're bigger, quicker and stronger. Tyreke, Westbrook, Jrue Holiday, Stephen Curry could've been a full time 2 guard in this league along with many others.

How many good young 2 guards are there in this league?

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 04:25 PM
A lot of good 2 guards now are training to be PG's. You get these converts early because they'll have the size advantage and today's athletes are better than those your father grew up with (on average). They're bigger, quicker and stronger. Tyreke, Westbrook, Jrue Holiday, Stephen Curry could've been a full time 2 guard in this league along with many others.

How many good young 2 guards are there in this league?

This is a good point. Except Jrue Holiday and Westbrook I feel would have ended up combo guards, not necessarily a 2 guard. And I believe Stephen Curry would have been too small to defend the 2 guard spot and should be a PG.

Tyreke, however, certainly has the size to be a 2 guard both offensively and defensively. I'm not sure why the Kings don't get a pass-first, defensive oriented PG and move him to SG. He could play more of a Wade role (prior to this year). I think this could help the Kings tremendously long-term.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
01-09-2011, 04:46 PM
This is a good point. Except Jrue Holiday and Westbrook I feel would have ended up combo guards, not necessarily a 2 guard. And I believe Stephen Curry would have been too small to defend the 2 guard spot and should be a PG.

Tyreke, however, certainly has the size to be a 2 guard both offensively and defensively. I'm not sure why the Kings don't get a pass-first, defensive oriented PG and move him to SG. He could play more of a Wade role (prior to this year). I think this could help the Kings tremendously long-term.

Reke can't shoot

Cubs Win
01-09-2011, 04:51 PM
Reke can't shoot

I've heard he's been working on his jumper though. I wasn't saying necessarily right away because you don't necessarily find that right PG right away. But say 2 years from now, he can become a decent enough shooter. I think he could play like a Dwyane Wade-lite role for the Kings if they had a different type of PG and then slide him to the 2 spot. Just an opinion though.

thekmp211
01-09-2011, 06:02 PM
this is just silly.

heattiltheend94
01-09-2011, 06:39 PM
Great post.

xxcubs22xx
01-09-2011, 09:07 PM
when you said D rose doesn't have a J you lost credibility, not like I read that whole thing tho

:clap:

Draco
01-10-2011, 02:15 AM
stop acting so butthurt. he didn't say anything about Rose or Rondo that isn't true.

it was a good read man. if you didn't think it was funny, intelligent, and witty, may god help you. that is all.

I don't care so much that the OP posted something about Rose or Rondo, I think the entire post as a whole is crap and I mentioned the NY Times article that in comparison actually makes some sense. Funny, witty and intelligent? lol.. I'm not surprised at who's a member of this schmucks fans club. That is all.

Bullsfan22
01-10-2011, 02:36 AM
It's funny how all the names on here that's liking this post are all linked to not liking Rose or Bulls fans. Same **** different thread. *shrugs* have fun with this intelligent post kids.

Rosh
01-10-2011, 04:49 AM
06-07 TJ FORD: 14 ppg, 7apg, 3.1 rpg, 44FG%, 1.3 spg, 82FT% 29.9 MPG
10-11 DE ROSE: 24 ppg, 8apg, 4.4rpg, 45FG%, 1.1 spg, 78FT% 37.6 MPG

Rose's USG RATE is also 30.58 versus 26.08 USG RATE of 06-07 Ford. So not only is rose getting nearly a quarter's worth more minutes, but when he's on the court the ball is in his hands much more than Ford's was. SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECIES FTW!!!! If Ford had more commercial and shoedeals in 2006-07, maybe he'd get more PT

and lets not turn this thread into a rose thread. Unless you want to talk about Rose's mustache, cause I like talking about facial hair in the nba. What do you think of his mustache anyway?

Thanks for not responding to anything in my post.