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View Full Version : Raymond Felton gets his first Triple Double of his career. Is he an All-Star ??



knicks09
01-08-2011, 01:57 AM
Raymond Felton just scored 23 points, 10 rebounds and 11 assists against the Suns which is his first of his career. He is averaging 18.2 ppg and 8.7 assists and 2 steals on the season. Is he an All-Star ?

Giraffes Rule
01-08-2011, 02:00 AM
I'm not overly impressed with a great performance against Steve Nash, but I think he's an all star caliber player this year. Unfortunately, Rajon Rondo and D Rose are at least just as deserving.

Sadds The Gr8
01-08-2011, 02:05 AM
yea...problem is that there's gonna be 3 locks which are Rose, Rondo, Wade. Most likely they'll put 4 guards, so the last spot will be between Felton and Joe Johnson....pretty much a toss-up between them.

goose14741
01-08-2011, 02:10 AM
felton or joe johnson? are you kidding its gotta be felton, hawks would be the same team if crawford played over johnson but felton is irreplaceable, e needs to be an all star

Meatmypet
01-08-2011, 02:10 AM
yea...problem is that there's gonna be 3 locks which are Rose, Rondo, Wade. Most likely they'll put 4 guards, so the last spot will be between Felton and Joe Johnson....pretty much a toss-up between them.

Joe Johnson has been underachieving this season after his big contract.

Giaps
01-08-2011, 02:11 AM
Rose-Rondo-Wade... Felton

He has definitely had the 4th best season from East guards.

Duncan = Donkey
01-08-2011, 02:11 AM
in the east he has a good chance.

nykobe24
01-08-2011, 02:12 AM
yea...problem is that there's gonna be 3 locks which are Rose, Rondo, Wade. Most likely they'll put 4 guards, so the last spot will be between Felton and Joe Johnson....pretty much a toss-up between them.

agree the last spot might be johnson and felton but it aint no toss up this year felton should make it over him

Giraffes Rule
01-08-2011, 02:12 AM
yea...problem is that there's gonna be 3 locks which are Rose, Rondo, Wade. Most likely they'll put 4 guards, so the last spot will be between Felton and Joe Johnson....pretty much a toss-up between them.

Might want to throw Ray Allen in there too. I would assume he gets in over Felton, just because of the way the All-Star game works.

Sadds The Gr8
01-08-2011, 02:13 AM
felton or joe johnson? are you kidding its gotta be felton, hawks would be the same team if crawford played over johnson but felton is irreplaceable, e needs to be an all star


Joe Johnson has been underachieving this season after his big contract.

right now Felton has the edge but there's still time. I think Felton will make it over him too, but Joe has a chance to catch up. He's been playin well lately even though he sucked *** to start the season.


Might want to throw Ray Allen in there too. I would assume he gets in over Felton, just because of the way the All-Star game works.

yea he has a chance too because of his team's record.

So basically the last guard spot is between Felton, Johnson, Allen.

John Walls Era
01-08-2011, 02:17 AM
Rajon Rondo and Wade are locks. Derrick is too. Can a case by made for Ray Allen (on the best team in the East record-wise)? Thats already 4 guards out of 12 spots. I could see Felton making it though.

DoMeFavors
01-08-2011, 02:17 AM
good luck getting him in the all star game

bholly
01-08-2011, 02:22 AM
They usually take 5 guards, with one in a wildcard spot, so there's a decent chances he makes it.

Giraffes Rule
01-08-2011, 02:23 AM
Rajon Rondo and Wade are locks. Derrick is too. Can a case by made for Ray Allen (on the best team in the East record-wise)? Thats already 4 guards out of 12 spots. I could see Felton making it though.

I think in Ray Allen's case, he's going to be scoring a lot more with KG out, and being a former all star multiple times and this being the end of his career he's going to get in with less impressive stats than other players.

uprightciti
01-08-2011, 02:32 AM
Felton is the 3rd best pg in the east

I vote for him every time I vote for the allstar game

He needs to be there with amare
He has earned it

What you need to do is convince all of asia that he is awesome
And he would start!

Kashmir13579
01-08-2011, 02:32 AM
Knicks with two allstars?! what.

sunsfan88
01-08-2011, 02:36 AM
It was against the Suns.

Adam Morrison would get a triple double against us I think.

NYsFinest
01-08-2011, 02:50 AM
Ray got tired of hearing that the Knicks need Nash...

I think he officially silenced all the Nash to NY rumors.

aman_13
01-08-2011, 03:10 AM
I watched the game tonight and man the Knicks are not shy with those threes.

DerekRE_3
01-08-2011, 03:14 AM
Too many good guards.

Abel Ye
01-08-2011, 03:16 AM
I believe he is an All-Star and I think he can take up the last guard spot with Rondo Rose and Wade.

pd1dish
01-08-2011, 03:16 AM
I'm not overly impressed with a great performance against Steve Nash, but I think he's an all star caliber player this year. Unfortunately, Rajon Rondo and D Rose are at least just as deserving.

i completely agree. he is an all-star caliber player, but there are too many other guards in the league that i would put ahead of him.

BkOriginalOne
01-08-2011, 03:39 AM
Rondo and Wade will start. And Then Rose will be the 3rd guard's name called.
Felton should make the team for helping to bring back the Knicks. Only a Ray Allen call could snub him (Ray is shooting over 50% from the floor and over 40% from 3 this year, and the Celtics are number 1 in the east)

JPHX
01-08-2011, 03:45 AM
well it was against the suns. at this point anyone could do that.

D Roses Bulls
01-08-2011, 03:52 AM
rose, rondo are better. you could make a case for jennings and harris. so I don't know bout all star.

DetroitBadBoy
01-08-2011, 03:53 AM
well it was against the suns. at this point anyone could do that.
lol i like how the Suns fans are admitting these things.

ball4reel
01-08-2011, 04:04 AM
well it was against the suns. at this point anyone could do that.

How many other PG's put up a trible double against the suns this yr?

NYsFinest
01-08-2011, 04:14 AM
rose, rondo are better. you could make a case for jennings and harris. so I don't know bout all star.

No you can't.... I would love to hear this "case"

D Roses Bulls
01-08-2011, 04:31 AM
No you can't.... I would love to hear this "case"

not as all stars, but overall better. look at their history. maybe neither are playing spectacular like they were, but they are still producing.

NYsFinest
01-08-2011, 04:58 AM
not as all stars, but overall better. look at their history. maybe neither are playing spectacular like they were, but they are still producing.

So Jennings the career 37.5% shooter that averages 5.5 (career 5.6) assists is overall better? In fact this season is statistically better than his previous one .... so the argument of him being better before makes no sense.

Devin Harris is so injury prone that he has played more than 70 games ONCE since his rookie season and has NEVER averaged 7 assists per game. His best career statistical season is worse than the one Felton is currently having.

Neither one of these has even a slight case... Felton leads these two in EVERY single significant statistical category, on a team that has almost as many wins as theirs combined.

D Roses Bulls
01-08-2011, 05:02 AM
So Jennings the career 37.5% shooter that averages 5.5 (career 5.6) assists is overall better? In fact this season he is playing better than the last....

Devin Harris is so injury prone that he has played more than 70 games ONCE since his rookie season and has NEVER averages 7 assists per game. His best career statistical season is by far worse than the one Felton is currently having.

Neither one of these has even a slight case... Felton leads these two in EVERY single significant statistical category, on a team that has almost as many wins as theirs combined.

like i say all the time stats aren't everything and if jennings was playing better, his team would be doing better then it is. he might be scoring more, but doesn't mean he is actually playing better. harris being injured has nothing to do with his talent. no one can argue when healthy yao ming is the second best center in the NBA, some might say first. Felton IMO is a product of the system in NY.

NYsFinest
01-08-2011, 05:18 AM
like i say all the time stats aren't everything and if jennings was playing better, his team would be doing better then it is. he might be scoring more, but doesn't mean he is actually playing better. harris being injured has nothing to do with his talent. no one can argue when healthy yao ming is the second best center in the NBA, some might say first. Felton IMO is a product of the system in NY.

Felton is the leader of a 21-14 team WITH the better stats.

There is absolutely ZERO argument to say that Harris or Jennings are having better seasons. Jennings is hyped due to flash he has never done a single thing to prove he is better than Felton.
And Harris had one good year... in which the team didn't make the playoffs, followed by two mediocre years... in which his team won 22 of 120+ games.

And Felton is not a product of the system... his increased numbers are because he actually has a dominant big man, shooters and doesn't play in that shackle system that Larry Brown ran in Charlotte. Just think of the garbage he played with on the Bobcats. Augustin's numbers drastically improved the second Larry Brown quit as well.

Bulls_fan90
01-08-2011, 05:26 AM
I hope he makes it. Been a big fan since his days at UNC. Very solid player.

arkanian215
01-08-2011, 06:02 AM
I think he's an all-star but according to 82games.com the Knicks do much better without him on the court. When he's on -0.6 and when he's off +8.8. That's really confusing because he and Amar'e PnR teams to death.

king4day
01-08-2011, 09:43 AM
He looked great. Nothing like his Bobcats days.
Amazing what a change of scenery will do.

knicksfan42
01-08-2011, 09:44 AM
rose, rondo are better. you could make a case for jennings and harris. so I don't know bout all star.

Rose and Rondo are better. Felton is playing better than Jennings and Harris right now, not to their team's records.

magichatnumber9
01-08-2011, 09:59 AM
Rondo got a more impressive one coming off a bad ankle injury.. next

Minimal
01-08-2011, 10:00 AM
Wade-Rondo-Rose-Felton
Yeah he deserves to be an all-star.

colinskik
01-08-2011, 10:11 AM
It was against the Suns.

Adam Morrison would get a triple double against us I think.
Shut up. Just shut up.

Flash3
01-08-2011, 10:21 AM
i always knew felton was really good, bobcats offense just didnt fit his style.

ragee
01-08-2011, 10:32 AM
Rose, Wade and Rondo are ahead of him...

nycericanguy
01-08-2011, 10:44 AM
rose, rondo are better. you could make a case for jennings and harris. so I don't know bout all star.

:facepalm: yea... no u can;t...

Knicks21
01-08-2011, 10:44 AM
He deserves to be all star.

Kashmir13579
01-08-2011, 10:47 AM
:facepalm: yea... no u can;t...

he can't. somebody else could.

nycericanguy
01-08-2011, 10:47 AM
Too many good guards.

Not really, u have Wade, Rose & Rondo. After that who is there that has played better than Felton?

I think right now its between Felton & Ray Allen. JJ was horrible for most of the season and his numbers are just creeping up to respectability, but still not as good as Felton.

Allen has scored very efficiently this season.

All that being said I think the East will carry 5 guards in which case Felton makes it easy.

nycericanguy
01-08-2011, 10:48 AM
Knicks with two allstars?! what.

could be 3 if Chandler keeps it up!

Swashcuff
01-08-2011, 11:01 AM
It was against the Suns.

Adam Morrison would get a triple double against us I think.

Unless you don't realize this is STILL the National Basketball Association and quite frankly it doesn't matter who you get your numbers against it still qualifies as an achievement in the NBA. Don't discredit what he did because of your team's incompetence. The game before he paced his team for a win against the team who many say is the best in the game right now. He has played great this season.

Swashcuff
01-08-2011, 11:14 AM
rose, rondo are better. you could make a case for jennings and harris. so I don't know bout all star.


not as all stars, but overall better. look at their history. maybe neither are playing spectacular like they were, but they are still producing.

While you did start off by saying the mentioned players were better you ended by saying that you don't know if he is an all-star because Harris and Jennings are better. That would imply that you think that they are already all stars and are more deserving of than Felton is.

Look said look at Jennings' & Harris' history ok. Devin has made one all-star game Jennings is just in his second season so he still has a ways to go. So what history are you talking about. These are not perennial shoe ins for the ASG so looking at their "history" really doesn't make much sense IMO. You can't base an argument of whether or not a player is deserving for anything this season because of their "history". Harris like Felton has had one ASG worthy season one in which he failed to impact his team in the way Felton has. All and all I'd like to say that Harris and Jennings may have more potential but neither of are better PGs/leaders than Felton is.

nycericanguy
01-08-2011, 11:30 AM
I wouldn't say Harris has more potential than Felton. People talk about Harris as if he's 22 years old sometimes, he's about to turn 28 and this is his 8th season in the league.

Felton is 26 and this is his 6th season.

Felton beats him in pretty much every category and he's doing it on a winning team whereas Harris is again on one of the worst teams in the NBA.

Harris - 16.6ppg 6.8apg 2.6rpg 1spg - 44% FG 31% 3PFG

Felton - 18.3ppg 8.7apg 3.9rpg 1.9spg - 45% FG 36% 3PFG

Really not even that close.

Anyone that says Harris should make it over Felton is just a NY hater.

Swashcuff
01-08-2011, 11:34 AM
I wouldn't say Harris has more potential than Felton. People talk about Harris as if he's 22 years old sometimes, he's about to turn 28 and this is his 8th season in the league.

Felton is 26 and this is his 6th season.

Felton beats him in pretty much every category and he's doing it on a winning team whereas Harris is again on one of the worst teams in the NBA.

Harris - 16.6ppg 6.8apg 2.6rpg 1spg - 44% FG 31% 3PFG

Felton - 18.3ppg 8.7apg 3.9rpg 1.9spg - 45% FG 36% 3PFG

Really not even that close.

Anyone that says Harris should make it over Felton is just a NY hater.

For various reason's there is NO way you can compare then them this season. By doing that you are being biased. Harris still isn't back to full health and it's evident in his play. As well as the fact that just by making a comparison of talent on the Knicks as opposed to the Nets Felton's job is made much easier by his teammates oh and of course the pace factor. If a healthy Harris was a knick it could be argued that he'd be having a much better season than Felton is.

This season's #s hold no merit in the discussion of who has more potential than whom.

nycericanguy
01-08-2011, 11:37 AM
For various reason's there is NO way you can compare then them this season. By doing that you are being biased. Harris still isn't back to full health and it's evident in his play. As well as the fact that just by making a comparison of talent on the Knicks as opposed to the Nets Felton's job is made much easier by his teammates oh and of course the pace factor. If a healthy Harris was a knick it could be argued that he'd be having a much better season than Felton is.

This season's #s hold no merit in the discussion of who has more potential than whom.

I was comparing their stats for all-star worthiness this season. As far as potential as I stated in the first paragraph Harris will be 28 in a few weeks and in his eighth season, I doubt you will see any dramatic improvement at this stage in his career. He pretty much is what he is. And when is he ever really 100% healthy? He's always been injury prone since his DAL days.

And really I think alot of people, myself included overrated Harris & Lopez. If they were really that good a top center and a top PG in the east should be at bare minimum an 8th seed, instead they are again one of the worst teams in the NBA.

DwayneMVPwade
01-08-2011, 11:43 AM
maybe as the 4th guard

1st Wade
2nd Rose
3rd Rondo
4th Felton? Ray Ray? DEROZAN??? jk

Swashcuff
01-08-2011, 11:49 AM
I was comparing their stats for all-star worthiness this season. As far as potential as I stated in the first paragraph Harris will be 28 in a few weeks and in his eighth season, I doubt you will see any dramatic improvement at this stage in his career. He pretty much is what he is. And when is he ever really 100% healthy? He's always been injury prone since his DAL days.

And really I think alot of people, myself included overrated Harris & Lopez. If they were really that good a top center and a top PG in the east should be at bare minimum an 8th seed, instead they are again one of the worst teams in the NBA.

My point is this, if you place a healthy Devin Harris in NY with those players and that system what would he be doing? My answer to that question would be the same way I'd answer if asked that question about Felton at the time he signed with the Knicks. Having his best season ever. In all honesty if Harris has a better season than 08-09 with a winning team and plays a major role then he would be deserving of some mention in terms of being an All-Star but that is not happening so he does not deserve to even be in the conversation as it stands right now.

When I say he has more potential I mean potential to do better than what he is doing now. Not to dramatically improve his game. A case could also be made that with maturity the right system and the right team he can make dramatic changes to his game and becoming an even better player (see Chauncey Billups) but I don't see that happening however.

WeBallin
01-08-2011, 12:07 PM
He's a very solid player in a scheme that fits him perfectly, but was barbosa an alstar when he played for the knicks coach? Felton is jus a tad better maybe next year if his is still producing at a high level,( I know Barbosa an felton play differ pos, but what i'm sayin are they are the from the same scheme one who had success in it an now fizzled out case in point barbosa!,an one who is strivin in it now felton!,) thats why the alstar game suck now, cause everbody thinks they deserve to go!

nycericanguy
01-08-2011, 12:12 PM
My point is this, if you place a healthy Devin Harris in NY with those players and that system what would he be doing? My answer to that question would be the same way I'd answer if asked that question about Felton at the time he signed with the Knicks. Having his best season ever. In all honesty if Harris has a better season than 08-09 with a winning team and plays a major role then he would be deserving of some mention in terms of being an All-Star but that is not happening so he does not deserve to even be in the conversation as it stands right now.

When I say he has more potential I mean potential to do better than what he is doing now. Not to dramatically improve his game. A case could also be made that with maturity the right system and the right team he can make dramatic changes to his game and becoming an even better player (see Chauncey Billups) but I don't see that happening however.

Alot of players COULD do better, but until they do its just potential and potential gets GM's fired.

To say that Harris would be having his best season ever if he were in NY is a slight against Felton and an undeserved one. D'antoni's system doesn't magically turn every player into an all-star. How well did Chris Duhon do here? I was actually worried that Felton was only going to be a slightly better version of Duhon when NY signed him... But boy has he proved me wrong. Not every player can succeed in the system, (see Anthony Randolph) so to automatically assume and give that to Harris that is not fair.

Fact is Harris should at worst be leading NJ to contend for the 8th seed and he is nowhere near that. He does not elevate players around him. I gave NJ the injury excuse last year, but even as a KNick fan I expected big things from Harris & lopez this year, all they have delivered is empty stats once again.

Crackadalic
01-08-2011, 12:27 PM
wow some of the post here are funny. nobody is here to talk about weather guys like harris or jennings are better then felton. the case is if he is a all star this year and i say yes but it will be hard for him to make but he has a high chance

Swashcuff
01-08-2011, 12:32 PM
Alot of players COULD do better, but until they do its just potential and potential gets GM's fired.

To say that Harris would be having his best season ever if he were in NY is a slight against Felton and an undeserved one. D'antoni's system doesn't magically turn every player into an all-star. How well did Chris Duhon do here? I was actually worried that Felton was only going to be a slightly better version of Duhon when NY signed him... But boy has he proved me wrong. Not every player can succeed in the system, (see Anthony Randolph) so to automatically assume and give that to Harris that is not fair.

Fact is Harris should at worst be leading NJ to contend for the 8th seed and he is nowhere near that. He does not elevate players around him. I gave NJ the injury excuse last year, but even as a KNick fan I expected big things from Harris & lopez this year, all they have delivered is empty stats once again.

Put Felton in NJ would he be leading them to an 8 seed?

I am not assuming anything. When Harris got a chance to play in the open court and run the team as he well please in 08-09 he had the best year of his career and lived up to his expectations.

I am not assuming nothing but like a poster above me said Leandro Barbosa was a fantastic scorer while under D'antoni, Boris Diaw was the was revealed as one of the most versitile bigger player's in the league, Shawn Marion was a top 20 player for the only time in his career and was never able to even regain that type of form in the least bit anywhere else oh and not to mention Steve Nash became a back to back MVP winner and now Wilson is flourishing and proving that he's not only a starter but he's also more than just a role player he is a guy who can at times take a game over and win it for you.

So to give me the example of Anthony Randolph a player who played his first two seasons in the biggest free for all offense in the league of GSW's and was not able to establish himself albeit he is still only 21 and isn't turning 22 until next season doesn't speak to the coach or the system it speaks to the player. Comparing Randolph and Harris here is in all honesty not very smart. Harris already established himself as a up and coming talent as a matter of a fact an up and coming All Star talent and he proved that in the one season that he was healthy and able to play to a pace of his liking.

Raymond Felton is having such a great season due to the fact that he is playing alongside much better players and that he is in a system which lends to great PG play. Hell Chris Duhon had the best season of his career as a starter in NY in 08-09 top 10 in the league in assists (more than Harris) and this season he's struggling to even get consistent bench minutes in Orlando. Does that not speak volume's to the benefits of playing in such a system and being surrounded by the right bunch of players?

godolphins
01-08-2011, 12:36 PM
It's only one triple double
Wade, Rose, Rondo and Ray Allen or Joe Johnson will be the four players at guard

Swashcuff
01-08-2011, 12:41 PM
It's only one triple double
Wade, Rose, Rondo and Ray Allen or Joe Johnson will be the four players at guard

How is Joe Johnson more deserving when Felton blows him away in virtually every category and thus far this season there are two players on his team who are not only outplaying him but are more deserving of being All-Stars.

NYK|NYY
01-08-2011, 12:42 PM
He'll probably be an all-star

netsgiantsyanks
01-08-2011, 12:43 PM
sure, why not

godolphins
01-08-2011, 12:45 PM
How is Joe Johnson more deserving when Felton blows him away in virtually every category and thus far this season there are two players on his team who are not only outplaying him but are more deserving of being All-Stars.
I said Joe Johnson or Ray Allen

Swashcuff
01-08-2011, 12:50 PM
I said Joe Johnson or Ray Allen

I have no beef with Allen because with Rose, Rondo and Wade you'd need at least one SHOOTING guard to spread the floor and his clutch 3 point shooting could be key over the course of the ball game. Not to mention his team is one of the best in the league and he is a major contributor in that. I have no problem with Allen though IMO Felton is more deserving.

I would just like to understand why you think Joe Johnson is deserving of being an All-Star.

nycericanguy
01-08-2011, 01:04 PM
Put Felton in NJ would he be leading them to an 8 seed?

I am not assuming anything. When Harris got a chance to play in the open court and run the team as he well please in 08-09 he had the best year of his career and lived up to his expectations.

I am not assuming nothing but like a poster above me said Leandro Barbosa was a fantastic scorer while under D'antoni, Boris Diaw was the was revealed as one of the most versitile bigger player's in the league, Shawn Marion was a top 20 player for the only time in his career and was never able to even regain that type of form in the least bit anywhere else oh and not to mention Steve Nash became a back to back MVP winner and now Wilson is flourishing and proving that he's not only a starter but he's also more than just a role player he is a guy who can at times take a game over and win it for you.

So to give me the example of Anthony Randolph a player who played his first two seasons in the biggest free for all offense in the league of GSW's and was not able to establish himself albeit he is still only 21 and isn't turning 22 until next season doesn't speak to the coach or the system it speaks to the player. Comparing Randolph and Harris here is in all honesty not very smart. Harris already established himself as a up and coming talent as a matter of a fact an up and coming All Star talent and he proved that in the one season that he was healthy and able to play to a pace of his liking.

Raymond Felton is having such a great season due to the fact that he is playing alongside much better players and that he is in a system which lends to great PG play. Hell Chris Duhon had the best season of his career as a starter in NY in 08-09 top 10 in the league in assists (more than Harris) and this season he's struggling to even get consistent bench minutes in Orlando. Does that not speak volume's to the benefits of playing in such a system and being surrounded by the right bunch of players?

Too much to respond to and I've already made my points but I will respond to your opening sentence.

Did Felton not lead a mediocre CHA team to the playoffs last year? Where is CHA now without him?

Would he lead NJ to the 8th seed? He'd sure have them at better than 10-26 thats for sure.

asandhu23
01-08-2011, 01:06 PM
so... he has one good game, he is an allstar... ellis continues to beast, nope, he's not an all star

apet8945
01-08-2011, 01:16 PM
He sure as hell deserves to be an all-star, got him on my fantasy team and he's been on a tear the entire year. I hope he does make it to the all-star game but it'll be a longshot with the other PG's.

Swashcuff
01-08-2011, 01:16 PM
Too much to respond to and I've already made my points but I will respond to your opening sentence.

Did Felton not lead a mediocre CHA team to the playoffs last year? Where is CHA now without him?

Would he lead NJ to the 8th seed? He'd sure have them at better than 10-26 thats for sure.

To answer that first question in one word. NO.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=wallage01&y1=2010&p2=jacksst02&y2=2010&p3=feltora01&y3=2010

based on those statistics and many others and from what was seen all of last season Felton did NOT lead the Bobcats to anything. Wallace was the leader and come crunch time he AND ESPECIALLY Jackson took over the game Felton sat by and watched as Jackson controlled the ball. In many ways Felton regressed and had to take a back seat when Wallace and Jackson was doing their thing. Don't speak as if Felton was the only reason why they made the playoffs. As for this season Stephen Jackson has shown that he has maybe lost a step and Wallace is NOT playing with the kind of drive and intensity as a season ago. Oh and does Felton have anything to do with them not playing as well HELL YES.... but he was NOT the main reason for their success.

Do you still not understand that Devin Harris is playing INJURED just like last season. Do you not understand that his "franchise" C came into this season thinking that he is Dirk or something. Do you realize that they have had a ton of issues with playing a consistent line up every night? Felton nor Harris is LeBron, Wade, Dwight they don't have season turn around kind of impact on a team. You are now starting to overrate Felton.

knicks09
01-08-2011, 01:21 PM
so... he has one good game, he is an allstar... ellis continues to beast, nope, he's not an all star

One good game ?? You've obviously haven't seem him play this season. And Felton actually knows how to pass the ball

Hawkeye15
01-08-2011, 01:25 PM
Rondo, Wade, Rose are locks. He will have to beat out Joe Johnson, and Ray Allen to make it, unless they roll with 5 guards. There is a chance. I wouldn't be surprised either way. The PG position out east is like the C position out west. There just aren't very many elite players at that position. I mean, Jameer Nelson made it. Mo freakin Williams made it.

nycericanguy
01-08-2011, 01:26 PM
To answer that first question in one word. NO.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=wallage01&y1=2010&p2=jacksst02&y2=2010&p3=feltora01&y3=2010

based on those statistics and many others and from what was seen all of last season Felton did NOT lead the Bobcats to anything. Wallace was the leader and come crunch time he AND ESPECIALLY Jackson took over the game Felton sat by and watched as Jackson controlled the ball. In many ways Felton regressed and had to take a back seat when Wallace and Jackson was doing their thing. Don't speak as if Felton was the only reason why they made the playoffs. As for this season Stephen Jackson has shown that he has maybe lost a step and Wallace is NOT playing with the kind of drive and intensity as a season ago. Oh and does Felton have anything to do with them not playing as well HELL YES.... but he was NOT the main reason for their success.

Do you still not understand that Devin Harris is playing INJURED just like last season. Do you not understand that his "franchise" C came into this season thinking that he is Dirk or something. Do you realize that they have had a ton of issues with playing a consistent line up every night? Felton nor Harris is LeBron, Wade, Dwight they don't have season turn around kind of impact on a team. You are now starting to overrate Felton.

I never said Felton was the go to guy or the main guy in CHA, but he was the leader. Thats what a PG is supposed to do. Ask anyone in CHA and they will say Felton was the unquestionable leader of that group.'

Harris isn't NJ's leader scorer either but he's supposed to lead the team.

And FYI the guys he took a "backseat" to, Wallace & Jax, they are still there but last I checked CHA is nowhere near as good as they were last year.

Overrating Felton? No, i underrated him before the season, but when you watch him play everyday you realize he is a very good player and more importantly a great leader.

All you have for Harris is excuses and "could've, wouldves". not exactly a great way to make an argument.

FaM0us Skins
01-08-2011, 01:27 PM
He should be an all star this year

Swashcuff
01-08-2011, 01:31 PM
One good game ?? You've obviously haven't seem him play this season. And Felton actually knows how to pass the ball

Please don't entertain him, if he had his way the entire GSW roster would represent the West in the ASG.

Reason why Monta hasn't made is simply because of Steve Nash, Deron Williams (a player who MUCH better than Monta and made it for the first time last season), Chris Paul, Brandon Roy, KOBE Bryant oh and a little thing called wins. He will in all in all likeliness make it this season however.

Hawkeye15
01-08-2011, 01:31 PM
so... he has one good game, he is an allstar... ellis continues to beast, nope, he's not an all star

why do you push so hard for Ellis??? We have already covered this. Ellis puts up big numbers on huge minutes (the dude never sits) with high usage and lots of shot attempts. Again, anyone who shoots 20+ times a night SHOULD be averaging 25 ppg.
I will admit, he is better this season than the previous 2. But 3 years ago, he was better than he is now. Ellis is an ideal 3rd option. Anything more than that, and he isn't going to have production that leads to wins.

arkanian215
01-08-2011, 01:35 PM
My point is this, if you place a healthy Devin Harris in NY with those players and that system what would he be doing? My answer to that question would be the same way I'd answer if asked that question about Felton at the time he signed with the Knicks. Having his best season ever. In all honesty if Harris has a better season than 08-09 with a winning team and plays a major role then he would be deserving of some mention in terms of being an All-Star but that is not happening so he does not deserve to even be in the conversation as it stands right now.

When I say he has more potential I mean potential to do better than what he is doing now. Not to dramatically improve his game. A case could also be made that with maturity the right system and the right team he can make dramatic changes to his game and becoming an even better player (see Chauncey Billups) but I don't see that happening however.

I'll say that Harris in that system would be better on fast breaks because his offensive game is more suited for the up tempo. Sure he can get space in the half court set and get those PnR's going but his best asset is his speed. However, Harris has limited range and that's what the Knicks' system relies on. They need to spread the court. Something Devin definitely does better than Felton is drawing those fouls. Other than that, it's actually pretty close despite what the other guy was telling you.

nycericanguy likes to mention stats but w/o context. Felton does all of that w/ 7.5 more minutes per game. I'm not saying that Devin deserves to be an all star again but his argument leaves out key variables such as supporting cast, time played and pace of the game.

Swashcuff
01-08-2011, 01:37 PM
I never said Felton was the go to guy or the main guy in CHA, but he was the leader. Thats what a PG is supposed to do. Ask anyone in CHA and they will say Felton was the unquestionable leader of that group.'

Harris isn't NJ's leader scorer either but he's supposed to lead the team.

And FYI the guys he took a "backseat" to, Wallace & Jax, they are still there but last I checked CHA is nowhere near as good as they were last year.

Overrating Felton? No, i underrated him before the season, but when you watch him play everyday you realize he is a very good player and more importantly a great leader.

All you have for Harris is excuses and "could've, wouldves". not exactly a great way to make an argument.

LOL are you serious. Could've and would'ves? Harris's best season was better than Felton is having now and he did not have the kind of teammates Felton has now to pass the ball too and take some of the pressure.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=feltora01&y1=2011&p2=harride01&y2=2009

Harris was clearly the better player.

As for your case for Felton being the leader of that bunch you should also mention that before Jackson joined the club they went no where. You should also mention that the Captain of that team was Gerald Wallace and also mention that the leader on the locker-room was also Wallace. YES Felton played a MAJOR role in their success but as far as leadership goes he took a back seat to Jackson and Wallace last season.

Hawkeye15
01-08-2011, 01:39 PM
I'll say that Harris in that system would be better on fast breaks because his offensive game is more suited for the up tempo. Sure he can get space in the half court set and get those PnR's going but his best asset is his speed. However, Harris has limited range and that's what the Knicks' system relies on. They need to spread the court. Something Devin definitely does better than Felton is drawing those fouls. Other than that, it's actually pretty close despite what the other guy was telling you.

nycericanguy likes to mention stats but w/o context. Felton does all of that w/ 7.5 more minutes per game. I'm not saying that Devin deserves to be an all star again but his argument leaves out key variables such as supporting cast, time played and pace of the game.

Devin is playing as well as Raymond is, but on a bad team. That will dictate that vote right away.

nycericanguy
01-08-2011, 01:43 PM
LOL are you serious. Could've and would'ves? Harris's best season was better than Felton is having now and he did not have the kind of teammates Felton has now to pass the ball too and take some of the pressure.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=feltora01&y1=2011&p2=harride01&y2=2009

Harris was clearly the better player.

As for your case for Felton being the leader of that bunch you should also mention that before Jackson joined the club they went no where. You should also mention that the Captain of that team was Gerald Wallace and also mention that the leader on the locker-room was also Wallace. YES Felton played a MAJOR role in their success but as far as leadership goes he took a back seat to Jackson and Wallace last season.

lol wow so now we're comparing digging up Harris's best season? We're talking about THIS year's all star game and potential going forward.

and basketball is a TEAM game, once again he did that on a team well under .500

arkanian215
01-08-2011, 01:43 PM
Devin is playing as well as Raymond is, but on a bad team. That will dictate that vote right away.

Yeah I know. It'll be the coaches voting.

Hawkeye15
01-08-2011, 01:50 PM
lol wow so now we're comparing digging up Harris's best season? We're talking about THIS year's all star game and potential going forward.

and basketball is a TEAM game, once again he did that on a team well under .500

the only way someone makes it off a really bad team, record wise, is if they put up ridiculous numbers. Kevin Love is about the only guy I can think of that deserves a spot due to his statistical season not having been seen in 28 years.

Swashcuff
01-08-2011, 01:50 PM
lol wow so now we're comparing digging up Harris's best season? We're talking about THIS year's all star game and potential going forward.

and basketball is a TEAM game, once again he did that on a team well under .500

I rest my case with you as you have proven complete ignorance and total bias towards the player on your team. :facepalm:

Weren't you the same person who said and I quote

Did Felton not lead a mediocre CHA team to the playoffs last year?

So answer me this who is the one who's talking about the PAST.

You rightfully said basketball is a TEAM GAME and one player doesn't make a team so don't blame Harris for his front office's incompetence to put a good team on the court.

Have a nice day!

nycericanguy
01-08-2011, 01:52 PM
the only way someone makes it off a really bad team, record wise, is if they put up ridiculous numbers. Kevin Love is about the only guy I can think of that deserves a spot due to his statistical season not having been seen in 28 years.

agreed, and as a knick fan I know this first hand. We had some guys put up better numbers than their counterparts but the fact that our team was so bad meant they didnt make it.

Even when Lee put up 20/12 & 4 last season he only made it as a replacement picked by Stern.

nycericanguy
01-08-2011, 01:53 PM
I rest my case with you as you have proven complete ignorance and total bias towards the player on your team. :facepalm:

Weren't you the same person who said and I quote

So answer me this who is the one who's talking about the PAST.

You rightfully said basketball is a TEAM GAME and one player doesn't make a team so don't blame Harris for his front office's incompetence to put a good team on the court.

Have a nice day!

lol wow dude, no reason to be so mad. just a debate. I never used Felton's past numbers to make an argument, i only bought up that he took CHA to the playoffs last year because you said he couldnt take a bad team to the playoffs. way to take one sentence out of context to try to make a point.

knicks4life33
01-08-2011, 02:07 PM
he definatley deserves to become a allstar i never expected to felton to be this good and this good of a floor general

Sadds The Gr8
01-08-2011, 02:07 PM
rose, rondo are better. you could make a case for jennings and harris. so I don't know bout all star.

no way in hell.

SteveNash
01-08-2011, 03:12 PM
I remember when people acted all crazy when I said Felton was better than Rose. First Felton dominates Rose on Christmas then comes up with a triple double. Felton has proven to be the real deal, a true point guard who can do anything you ask of him.

THE MTL
01-08-2011, 03:23 PM
Dont coaches usually pick 2 guards, 2 forwards, 1 center and then 2 guys regardless of position?

Felton has a good chance of making it into the allstar game.

Giaps
01-08-2011, 03:23 PM
I remember when people acted all crazy when I said Felton was better than Rose. First Felton dominates Rose on Christmas then comes up with a triple double. Felton has proven to be the real deal, a true point guard who can do anything you ask of him.
There's no question Rose is better than Felton, but the topic is is he an all-star and to me it's an easy YES. 4th best guard in the East.

And to respond to some previous posts,
Felton > Harris
Felton > Jennings

Not just stats, but as a leader and defender. Can't measure those in the boxscore.

THE MTL
01-08-2011, 03:30 PM
so... he has one good game, he is an allstar... ellis continues to beast, nope, he's not an all star

There are FAR too many guards out West for Ellis to make it especially since his team isnt that good. You have: Paul-Williams-Kobe are locks. And then you have Ginobili, Parker, Westbrook, Nash.

cargobox
01-08-2011, 03:55 PM
I think Landry Fields is more deserving, he was a steal in the draft, not only he deserves to be rookie of the year but also in the all-star game

geraptor
01-08-2011, 04:05 PM
I think Landry Fields is more deserving, he was a steal in the draft, not only he deserves to be rookie of the year but also in the all-star game

we got it he was a steal... now could we please not get ahead of ourselves....

knicksfan42
01-08-2011, 04:06 PM
we got it he was a steal... now could we please not get ahead of ourselves....

He was trying to be sarcastic look at his avatar.

mjqusoldier
01-08-2011, 04:12 PM
He should be but I bet he gets snubbed by Ray Allen

geraptor
01-08-2011, 04:14 PM
He was trying to be sarcastic look at his avatar.

lol should have noticed that :facepalm:

Durant is hype
01-08-2011, 05:06 PM
Simply put,no too many guards in the east.

skinnedalive!!
01-08-2011, 05:25 PM
Let him rest. We don't need all stars we need healthy bodies.

NYKSpiritBomb
01-08-2011, 05:31 PM
like i say all the time stats aren't everything and if jennings was playing better, his team would be doing better then it is. he might be scoring more, but doesn't mean he is actually playing better. harris being injured has nothing to do with his talent. no one can argue when healthy yao ming is the second best center in the NBA, some might say first. Felton IMO is a product of the system in NY.

such a ****ing hater :facepalm:

commonsense12
01-08-2011, 05:45 PM
LOL are you serious. Could've and would'ves? Harris's best season was better than Felton is having now and he did not have the kind of teammates Felton has now to pass the ball too and take some of the pressure.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=feltora01&y1=2011&p2=harride01&y2=2009

Harris was clearly the better player.

As for your case for Felton being the leader of that bunch you should also mention that before Jackson joined the club they went no where. You should also mention that the Captain of that team was Gerald Wallace and also mention that the leader on the locker-room was also Wallace. YES Felton played a MAJOR role in their success but as far as leadership goes he took a back seat to Jackson and Wallace last season.

Wait let me get this straight. In your mind Dantoni's system makes players better (Felton, Duhon etc), but now you are saying Felton is better because he has better players around him..........Cant have it both ways, are the players better or is it the system? Sounds like you are just hating.

Giaps
01-08-2011, 05:45 PM
like i say all the time stats aren't everything and if jennings was playing better, his team would be doing better then it is. he might be scoring more, but doesn't mean he is actually playing better. harris being injured has nothing to do with his talent. no one can argue when healthy yao ming is the second best center in the NBA, some might say first. Felton IMO is a product of the system in NY.
You fail at forums.

$KnicksAndKobe$
01-08-2011, 05:53 PM
Felton got better as a player. People get better in life and in games, so why mention the past AT ALL?

Is Felton playing like an all-star? Yes. The dude is a warrior.

syre
01-08-2011, 05:55 PM
like i say all the time stats aren't everything and if jennings was playing better, his team would be doing better then it is. he might be scoring more, but doesn't mean he is actually playing better. harris being injured has nothing to do with his talent. no one can argue when healthy yao ming is the second best center in the NBA, some might say first. Felton IMO is a product of the system in NY.yes because yao ming is better than dwight howard and tim duncan. tim is having a rough season but i'll take him any day over yao ming.

felton has a chance to be an all-star. must keep up the good work, battling rondo and rose for it.

Cubs Win
01-08-2011, 05:59 PM
If the game counted for anything, similar to the MLB, I'd prefer Ray Allen to get that likely last guard spot (with Wade, Rose, and Rondo being 3 locks). Simply because there are already 2 point guards and Ray Allen can flat out shoot. I guess it'll depend on how the coaches see his season thus far, and if they think it's a result of the system and players around him moreso than Felton himself. Time will tell.

Swashcuff
01-08-2011, 06:02 PM
Wait let me get this straight. In your mind Dantoni's system makes players better (Felton, Duhon etc), but now you are saying Felton is better because he has better players around him..........Cant have it both ways, are the players better or is it the system? Sounds like you are just hating.

Did you even read through the thread? I said BOTH in the same post. Did you read at all? They are players who are not only better but players who are performing well in the system. How could you say I am hating when in the very thread I have defended Felton just as much as any Knick fan has?

Let's compare the talent why don't ya.

Dani vs Outlaw
Stoudemire vs Lopez
Chandler vs Williams/CDR
Landry vs Morrow/Vujacic

Wouldn't any point guard have an easier job when surrounded with quality players? Same way great point guards make the players themselves better said players also make the PG better. You can be the best PG in the world if your teammates aren't hitting their shots there is no way your team is going anywhere.

The Knicks have 3 high other quality players who can do well wherever they go including the front-runner for MVP. Typically guys who are on top in terms of MVP ranks typically make their teammates jobs easier.

superabound
01-08-2011, 06:09 PM
A triple-double? Wow, jeez, and we are only talking about the All-Star game? With a game like that, you should put him into the Hall. He and LeBron must be sure-fire candidates by now.

NYYCowboys
01-08-2011, 06:28 PM
I think he's got a shot to be one of the last guys on the roster, or a replacement like Lee was last year.

MalZee24
01-08-2011, 06:33 PM
good luck getting him in the all star game

he has a better shot than devin harris

commonsense12
01-08-2011, 07:06 PM
Did you even read through the thread? I said BOTH in the same post. Did you read at all? They are players who are not only better but players who are performing well in the system. How could you say I am hating when in the very thread I have defended Felton just as much as any Knick fan has?

Let's compare the talent why don't ya.

Dani vs Outlaw
Stoudemire vs Lopez
Chandler vs Williams/CDR
Landry vs Morrow/Vujacic

Wouldn't any point guard have an easier job when surrounded with quality players? Same way great point guards make the players themselves better said players also make the PG better. You can be the best PG in the world if your teammates aren't hitting their shots there is no way your team is going anywhere.

The Knicks have 3 high other quality players who can do well wherever they go including the front-runner for MVP. Typically guys who are on top in terms of MVP ranks typically make their teammates jobs easier.

Oh i read the thread and You also said Duhon had his best season under Mike's system. Sort of true but not really. He played more then anytime in his career, so yeah his stats will be much better. If you actually watched Knick games you would know he was terrible and basically did nothing right.

Harris and Jennings are not having better seasons this year and to say Felton is not an All-star because other players have potential is just wrong. Anthony Randolph has potential but he cant put it together so is he better then other players who are performing? Also some players who play in systems were they are not the number 1 or 2 see their stats decrease (the big 3 for instance). If the Nets have no options then Harris should be putting up better numbers because he should be shooting more. Your arguement of why Felton and Jennings are better is just wrong. Allstars are based on results and nothing more. well they should be anyways......

Crackadalic
01-08-2011, 07:08 PM
im confuse are we here to talk about whether felton is the better player then harris and jenning or who is having the better season. If its whos the better player thats debatable and something that can be talked about some other time but if its who is having the better season then obvious its felton regardless of system. Wade, Rondo and D-Rose are locks IMO so the last guard spot is between Felton Ray Allen and Joe johnson. Felton is having a better season then Johnson but Ray Ray is having an outstanding season plus he is a sg. But if felton does make it he definitely deserves the nod

D Roses Bulls
01-08-2011, 07:10 PM
You fail at forums.

you are only mad because for once since the 90's, probably since you were too young to remember your excited about your team and instead of bowing down, I'm telling it like it is. worry about your team and stop worrying about what others think of your team.

D Roses Bulls
01-08-2011, 07:12 PM
such a ****ing hater :facepalm:

first im a cavs hater, then a nets hater, then a heat hater, now a knicks hater? will some of you make up your mind already cause im losing track on who im suppose to hate on. :facepalm:

tangent12
01-08-2011, 07:13 PM
"gets his first" ...

And that alone should give you the answer.

Felton is nothing more than a decent PG but he is by no means an all star or even remotely close to being one.

Evolution23
01-08-2011, 07:17 PM
"gets his first" ...

And that alone should give you the answer.

Felton is nothing more than a decent PG but he is by no means an all star or even remotely close to being one.

I know hes the 2nd worst player in the NBA behind Landry Fields

Kashmir13579
01-08-2011, 07:20 PM
not as all stars, but overall better. look at their history. maybe neither are playing spectacular like they were, but they are still producing.

that is not a case being made. you really can't do better than that? why don't you let us know in a couple organized paragraphs why Harris and Jennings are more deserving. don't leave stats or prior accomplishments out of your argument, please.

D Roses Bulls
01-08-2011, 07:28 PM
that is not a case being made. you really can't do better than that? why don't you let us know in a couple organized paragraphs why Harris and Jennings are more deserving. don't leave stats or prior accomplishments out of your argument, please.

first of all, I didn't say they were better, I said you could argue that they are better overall, I didn't say this season they playing better then felton. so you really misinterpreted what I was saying.

Kashmir13579
01-08-2011, 07:32 PM
first of all, I didn't say they were better, I said you could argue that they are better overall, I didn't say this season they playing better then felton. so you really misinterpreted what I was saying.

ok, so make that argument; i'm waiting.

believe me, no misinterpretation here.

mjqusoldier
01-08-2011, 07:34 PM
"gets his first" ...

And that alone should give you the answer.

Felton is nothing more than a decent PG but he is by no means an all star or even remotely close to being one.

well than you are nothing more than a clueless loser that no1 likes

cheetos185
01-08-2011, 07:44 PM
"gets his first" ...

And that alone should give you the answer.

Felton is nothing more than a decent PG but he is by no means an all star or even remotely close to being one.

rose doesn't even have 1 triple double so he's not a allstar right?

D Roses Bulls
01-08-2011, 07:49 PM
ok, so make that argument; i'm waiting.

believe me, no misinterpretation here.

Alright, I wont go too much into it, but overall, How long has felton been putting up these numbers? for a half season so far? Jennings actually has better stats then last year even though I believe his field goal percentage has been down from last year. If you watched the Bucks last year at all, you know what jennings did. jennings last year

GP↓ GS↓ MPG↓ FG%↓ 3P%↓ FT%↓ RPG↓ APG↓ SPG↓ BPG↓ PPG↓
82 82 32.6 .371 .374 .817 3.4 5.7 1.3 .2 15.5

felton from last year

80 80 33.0 .459 .385 .763 3.6 5.6 1.5 .3 12.1

Now you go into the playoffs that year and jennings numbers actually go up while feltons goes down.

Now Devin Harris do I really need to tell you what he does when he is healthy? and put down the stats down to show you what he has done during his career? before this half a season felton didn't do anything really. so you wanna try and compare players based on a half a season? then lets bring boris diaw in here and compare what he did compared to other SF and PF's by what he did for a half a season when he was playing so great. so a half a season makes someone better then 2 guys who has been playing well since they have been in the league? and even though harris's and jennings stats are better when both are healthy, it's not always about stats like ive said many of times.

D Roses Bulls
01-08-2011, 07:50 PM
rose doesn't even have 1 triple double so he's not a allstar right?

now were going by who's an all star by 1 triple double? seriously?

Slimsim
01-08-2011, 07:51 PM
you are only mad because for once since the 90's, probably since you were too young to remember your excited about your team and instead of bowing down, I'm telling it like it is. worry about your team and stop worrying about what others think of your team.

I notice you bulls fans get defensive When there's another PG not name rose is Getting Recognized.

D Roses Bulls
01-08-2011, 07:53 PM
I notice you bulls fans get defensive When there's another PG not name rose is Getting Recognized.

no, you guys got mad cause I gave my opinion and most of you didn't like it.

Slimsim
01-08-2011, 08:01 PM
no, you guys got mad cause I gave my opinion and most of you didn't like it.

Not mad Just observed in Many threads that's PG related that doesn't have Nothing to do with Rose a hand full of you bull Fans Come and try to compare Rose and why he is better than this PG or that PG. Or Discredit another PG and then try to prove Why rose is God of Basketball.

D Roses Bulls
01-08-2011, 08:03 PM
Not mad Just observed in Many threads that's PG related that doesn't have Nothing to do with Rose a hand full of you bull Fans Come and try to compare Rose and why he is better than this PG or that PG.

the only thing I said about rose even in this thread was that rose and rondo are better and gave a couple other names you could argue are better then felton. besides that the only thing I responded to was the dude saying rose isnt an all star cause he doesnt have a triple double? i mean what kind of statement is that? I mean look at the other threads, if other fans don't agree the knicks are good, or that you guys aren't getting melo, then you guys call them haters.

nycericanguy
01-08-2011, 08:06 PM
Alright, I wont go too much into it, but overall, How long has felton been putting up these numbers? for a half season so far? Jennings actually has better stats then last year even though I believe his field goal percentage has been down from last year. If you watched the Bucks last year at all, you know what jennings did. jennings last year

GP↓ GS↓ MPG↓ FG%↓ 3P%↓ FT%↓ RPG↓ APG↓ SPG↓ BPG↓ PPG↓
82 82 32.6 .371 .374 .817 3.4 5.7 1.3 .2 15.5

felton from last year

80 80 33.0 .459 .385 .763 3.6 5.6 1.5 .3 12.1

Now you go into the playoffs that year and jennings numbers actually go up while feltons goes down.

Now Devin Harris do I really need to tell you what he does when he is healthy? and put down the stats down to show you what he has done during his career? before this half a season felton didn't do anything really. so you wanna try and compare players based on a half a season? then lets bring boris diaw in here and compare what he did compared to other SF and PF's by what he did for a half a season when he was playing so great. so a half a season makes someone better then 2 guys who has been playing well since they have been in the league? and even though harris's and jennings stats are better when both are healthy, it's not always about stats like ive said many of times.

So let me get this straight, you're arguing against Felton for this years all-star game based on what he did LAST season? lol... good job...good job...

And BTW even that argument fails because Felton had a much better season than Jennings last year as well, you're only looking at PPG but Jennings took a TON of shots more to average 3 points more. Felton was much, much, MUCH more efficient.

cheetos185
01-08-2011, 08:09 PM
now were going by who's an all star by 1 triple double? seriously?

bulls fan started it since he had only 1 triple double he shouldn't be mentioned in all-star class when he's putting up great numbers playing injured since boston game knicks fan started this thread based on how felton is playing this season yet bulls fan bring up jenning and harris as defense based on past seasons so here is my counter since rose didn't even have 1 triple double he shouldn't be all-star right

D Roses Bulls
01-08-2011, 08:11 PM
So let me get this straight, you're arguing against Felton for this years all-star game based on what he did LAST season? lol... good job...good job...

And BTW even that argument fails because Felton had a much better season than Jennings last year as well, you're only looking at PPG but Jennings took a TON of shots more to average 3 points more. Felton was much, much, MUCH more efficient.

have you not been reading? :facepalm: I SAID OVERALL!!! meaning career wise. what is so hard to understand about that?

and you saying felton was better then jennings last year just lost you all your credibility. look at the playoff numbers as well, feltons numbers went down under the spot lights while jennings went up. This guy :facepalm:

cheetos185
01-08-2011, 08:13 PM
i think bulls fans are still mad that felton shut rose down defensively :D

D Roses Bulls
01-08-2011, 08:15 PM
i think bulls fans are still mad that felton shut rose down defensively :D

didn't rose have 27 points that game along with 8-9 assists? I guess if you talkin about the last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter when rose was even missing point blank shots, I guess so.......

nycericanguy
01-08-2011, 08:16 PM
have you not been reading? :facepalm: I SAID OVERALL!!! meaning career wise. what is so hard to understand about that?

and you saying felton was better then jennings last year just lost you all your credibility. look at the playoff numbers as well, feltons numbers went down under the spot lights while jennings went up. This guy :facepalm:

Overall what? Career? We're selecting all-stars based on careers now? And yes Felton did have a better season than Jennings last year. I will give you that Jennings played better in the playoffs but to imply that Jennings had a better season or career "overall" because he played better in 5 or 6 playoff games is really one of the most ludicrous arguments I have heard on here in a while from someone that apparently is dead serious!

you can use all the face palms you want that's not going to make you or your arguments look any less silly.

D Roses Bulls
01-08-2011, 08:17 PM
Overall what? Career? We're selecting all-stars based on careers now? And yes Felton did have a better season than Jennings last year. I will give you that Jennings played better in the playoffs but to imply that Jennings had a better season or career "overall" because he played better in 5 or 6 playoff games is really one of the most ludicrous arguments I have heard on here in a while from someone that apparently is dead serious!

go back and READ..... Kashmir asked me to explain some why you can make an argument on their careers. not this half of a season. NOTHING ABOUT ALL-STARS THIS YEAR

cheetos185
01-08-2011, 08:20 PM
didn't rose have 27 points that game along with 8-9 assists? I guess if you talkin about the last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter when rose was even missing point blank shots, I guess so.......

you mean 28 shots to score 25

mjqusoldier
01-08-2011, 08:22 PM
Felton is a better point guard than D.Rose. Rose is the better athlete and more explosive player and has the potential to be the best. Felton is a better shooter, passer, defender, and leader than Rose at this point. Rose is better at going to the paint thats about it.

D Roses Bulls
01-08-2011, 08:24 PM
you mean 28 shots to score 25

like i said, he couldn't buy a shot, you saw the game. he missed lay ups for pete sakes

D Roses Bulls
01-08-2011, 08:25 PM
Felton is a better point guard than D.Rose. Rose is the better athlete and more explosive player and has the potential to be the best. Felton is a better shooter, passer, defender, and leader than Rose at this point. Rose is better at going to the paint thats about it.

:facepalm: I don't even know how to respond to this post. New York fans :facepalm:

Kashmir13579
01-08-2011, 08:38 PM
Alright, I wont go too much into it, but overall, How long has felton been putting up these numbers? for a half season so far? Jennings actually has better stats then last year even though I believe his field goal percentage has been down from last year. If you watched the Bucks last year at all, you know what jennings did. jennings last year

GP↓ GS↓ MPG↓ FG%↓ 3P%↓ FT%↓ RPG↓ APG↓ SPG↓ BPG↓ PPG↓
82 82 32.6 .371 .374 .817 3.4 5.7 1.3 .2 15.5

felton from last year

80 80 33.0 .459 .385 .763 3.6 5.6 1.5 .3 12.1

Now you go into the playoffs that year and jennings numbers actually go up while feltons goes down.

Now Devin Harris do I really need to tell you what he does when he is healthy? and put down the stats down to show you what he has done during his career? before this half a season felton didn't do anything really. so you wanna try and compare players based on a half a season? then lets bring boris diaw in here and compare what he did compared to other SF and PF's by what he did for a half a season when he was playing so great. so a half a season makes someone better then 2 guys who has been playing well since they have been in the league? and even though harris's and jennings stats are better when both are healthy, it's not always about stats like ive said many of times.

Wow. i'm actually surprised at how much you put into this. good job:confused: and at least you realize that RIGHT NOW Felton is the better player (whether you will phrase it like that or not).

Fans will be fans, and the thing is, if the Knicks are winning and Felton is putting up great statlines, he's going to get more consideration from fans and sportswriters than others who are putting up comparable stats. unless we're talking about "elite" players, it all comes down to winning really. so right now Ray is better, but if Harris was in the same situation the praise would be going to him.
i only disagree in that whether you like it or not, Harris is injured a lot, Felton is NBAs current iron man; Jennings is known to have attitude problems, Felton is known to say the right things at all times. that has to count for something.

D Roses Bulls
01-08-2011, 08:40 PM
Wow. i'm actually surprised at how much you put into this. good job:confused: and at least you realize that RIGHT NOW Felton is the better player (whether you will phrase it like that or not).

Fans will be fans, and the thing is, if the Knicks are winning and Felton is putting up great statlines, he's going to get more consideration from fans and sportswriters than others who are putting up comparable stats. unless we're talking about "elite" players, it all comes down to winning really. so right now Ray is better, but if Harris was in the same situation the praise would be going to him.
i only disagree in that whether you like it or not, Harris is injured a lot, Felton is NBAs current iron man; Jennings is known to have attitude problems, Felton is known to say the right things at all times. that has to count for something.

right now, felton is playing better, yes. I never said that he wasn't, but some people can't read.

Kashmir13579
01-08-2011, 08:40 PM
Felton is a better point guard than D.Rose. Rose is the better athlete and more explosive player and has the potential to be the best. Felton is a better shooter, passer, defender, and leader than Rose at this point. Rose is better at going to the paint thats about it.

look at the statistics before making bonehead statements like this, please.

i love the Knicks too, dude
.

Kashmir13579
01-08-2011, 08:42 PM
right now, felton is playing better, yes. I never said that he wasn't, but some people can't read.

in all fairness, your posts aren't always easy to comprehend. sometimes it takes 2 or 3 trys. others just want to start ****. you know all about that. :D

D Roses Bulls
01-08-2011, 08:47 PM
in all fairness, your posts aren't always easy to comprehend. sometimes it takes 2 or 3 trys. others just want to start ****. you know all about that. :D

I know what your saying. sometimes I type so fast that I leave words out and all that and i submit before i even reread what I wrote. thats why half my posts are usually edited, lol

mjqusoldier
01-08-2011, 08:47 PM
look at the statistics before making bonehead statements like this, please.

i love the Knicks too, dude
.

Uhhh Ill say it again Felton is a better all around pg than Rose. Rose is more exciting and more fun to watch and has more hype. Felton is aa better shooter and passer and leader. Am I lying??? Rose takes alot of shots compared to Felton.

dtmagnet
01-08-2011, 09:32 PM
Uhhh Ill say it again Felton is a better all around pg than Rose. Rose is more exciting and more fun to watch and has more hype. Felton is aa better shooter and passer and leader. Am I lying??? Rose takes alot of shots compared to Felton.

Hard to say, you could say Felton is a better 2-way player because of his defense though.

mjqusoldier
01-08-2011, 09:41 PM
Rose is more of a shooting guard imo. Felton is more of a true PG.

lvlheaded
01-08-2011, 10:13 PM
Felton should make the All-star team. Product of the system or not, he has had a great year.

Please dont say he is better than Rose though, because I would trade Felton for Rose any day of the week.

tangent12
01-08-2011, 10:18 PM
Felton is a better point guard than D.Rose. Rose is the better athlete and more explosive player and has the potential to be the best. Felton is a better shooter, passer, defender, and leader than Rose at this point. Rose is better at going to the paint thats about it.


look at the statistics before making bonehead statements like this, please.

i love the Knicks too, dude
.

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

What?
01-09-2011, 12:09 AM
If the allstar game was today Felton would probably get that 4th spot but I also wouldn't be surprised that with JJ picking up his game as of late and people seem to be completely discrediting Ray Allen who is having probably his best season since joining the Celtics and with career high fg%, 3pt%, and 2nd highest ts%, drtg, ortg of his career

effen5
01-09-2011, 12:54 AM
Felton is a better point guard than D.Rose. Rose is the better athlete and more explosive player and has the potential to be the best. Felton is a better shooter, passer, defender, and leader than Rose at this point. Rose is better at going to the paint thats about it.

Not sure if srs....if srs go ban yourself.

Rose >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Felton and its not even close.

Evolution23
01-09-2011, 01:57 PM
Tangent and mr feeny get mad so quick. :laugh: Felton is a better point guard than Rose but Rose is a better scorer. Rose doesn't have leadership qualities like Felton does and he def can't play D like Felton can.

What?
01-09-2011, 03:23 PM
I can't believe this has turned into a Rose v Felton debate when there really isn't one. Rose is quicker better shooter, better rebounder, less turnover prone, and a better defender as his 103 drtg compared to Felton's 110 shows.

You can make a case that Felton is better at stealing the ball and slightly better passer (although am sure being surrounded by great shooters and Amare helps with the assists)

Am not saying this to disrespect how good Felton is playing this year like I said earlier imo he should be in the all-star game am just saying that Rose is defiantly the better player and pg.

nyanks79
01-09-2011, 03:36 PM
I can't believe this has turned into a Rose v Felton debate when there really isn't one. Rose is quicker better shooter, better rebounder, less turnover prone, and a better defender as his 103 drtg compared to Felton's 110 shows.

You can make a case that Felton is better at stealing the ball and slightly better passer (although am sure being surrounded by great shooters and Amare helps with the assists)

Am not saying this to disrespect how good Felton is playing this year like I said earlier imo he should be in the all-star game am just saying that Rose is defiantly the better player and pg.

Defensive Rating isnt really a good stat. Looks more at what the team does in that time. Rose is better then Felton, but Felton is a better defender.

knicksfan42
01-09-2011, 03:38 PM
I can't believe this has turned into a Rose v Felton debate when there really isn't one. Rose is quicker better shooter

I don't think Felton is better than Rose, but he is a better shooter. Better TS%, eFG%, and ORtg.

sintaks12
01-09-2011, 03:39 PM
I can't believe this has turned into a Rose v Felton debate when there really isn't one. Rose is quicker better shooter, better rebounder, less turnover prone, and a better defender as his 103 drtg compared to Felton's 110 shows.

You can make a case that Felton is better at stealing the ball and slightly better passer (although am sure being surrounded by great shooters and Amare helps with the assists)

Am not saying this to disrespect how good Felton is playing this year like I said earlier imo he should be in the all-star game am just saying that Rose is defiantly the better player and pg.

I don't think the debate was skills vs skills... Rose is the clear winner. It's that Felton is more of a true PG than Rose. But whatever... Rose is in the early season MVP discussion and Raymond posted his first career triple double and might be a first time allstar... Kudos to both.

9GRAVES9
01-09-2011, 04:01 PM
are you people kidding me? anyone who says he doesn't deserve to be an allstar is totally clueless. try watching some knick games. the guy has been "GREAT" all year.

rose 24.2 8.1 4.4 1.9
felton 18.3 8.1 3.8 1.8 and we beat chicago twice already, how is rose a lock and felton not?? ignorant haters are the worst fans in the world.

9GRAVES9
01-09-2011, 04:02 PM
i would take rose over felton any day of the week, but felton should be an allstar this year.

What?
01-09-2011, 07:27 PM
Defensive Rating isnt really a good stat. Looks more at what the team does in that time. Rose is better then Felton, but Felton is a better defender.

Rose is a better defender than Felton synergy stats are proof of that if you won't except drtg

Derrick Rose
Type %Time PPP Rank
Isolation 18.2% .59 19
P&R 47.2% .75 43
Spot up 17.5% .86 52
Overall 100% .76 29

Raymond Felton
Isolation 18.4% .74 63
P&R 42.3% .89 108
Spot Up 19.8% 1.26 279
Overall 100% .89 194

The stats show pretty clearly Rose is the better defender


I don't think Felton is better than Rose, but he is a better shooter. Better TS%, eFG%, and ORtg.

Felton Ortg is more because of the Knicks high powered Offense then him being a better shooter and TS% and eFG% are also not that telling although you were right they are about equal shooting the ball Felton is 4% better shooting the ball from 16-23 ft and Rose has a 4% higher eFG% from three point range.

el_primo_nano
01-13-2011, 12:00 AM
I think he can sneak in. Hopefully he does, he is playing out of his mind this year, and overachieving

Kashmir13579
01-13-2011, 01:08 AM
:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

don't ever quote me. ever.


Uhhh Ill say it again Felton is a better all around pg than Rose. Rose is more exciting and more fun to watch and has more hype. Felton is aa better shooter and passer and leader. Am I lying??? Rose takes alot of shots compared to Felton.

that seems very opinionated. i'm not sure how you define leader, but Rose is to the Bulls as Amar'e is to the Knicks. and actually your wrong, Felton's shooting numbers are a up a bit from previous years but still only slightly better than Rose. Rose is also a better distributer and rebounder, more win shares, PER. i also think its obvious which player has more upside at this point in their careers, respectively.

Evolution23
01-13-2011, 01:10 AM
Felton is a better point guard than Rose. Rose is the better player though.

Kashmir13579
01-13-2011, 01:20 AM
Felton is a better point guard than Rose. Rose is the better player though.

Felton isn't a true point guard. he is playing very well this season but was never a true pass-first PG. its not the same as the Nash/Rondo > PG than Rose argument.

believeinNYK
01-13-2011, 03:03 AM
Raymond Felton this season> Joe Johnson/ray Allen this season

quade36
01-13-2011, 10:14 AM
Who really cares? The allstar game is a popularity contest.

Mr.ATLHawks
01-13-2011, 10:30 AM
Joe Johnson has been underachieving this season after his big contract.

Joe has been dealing with his shoiulder injury which would accoutn for yhis pathetic numbers at 19 million dollars per year. He is also being forced to become a team player and not doing all that isolation dribbling he is famous for. JJ is startin to get the picture and his recent numbers have been good as he has become alot more effcient.

Jamal Crawford has been lighting it up since coming back from his back injury...

Bravo95
01-13-2011, 10:55 AM
Felton has played very well this season. Great case for it. All I know is that between Al Horford, Josh Smith and Joe Johnson - two of those three (doesn't matter which) should make the ASG because the Hawks are once again near the top of the East.

Jiggie
01-13-2011, 12:24 PM
rose, rondo are better. you could make a case for jennings and harris. so I don't know bout all star.

Jennings has missed too much time this season, and his team is underachieving. Harris is on one of the worst teams in the East and Felton is putting up much better numbers than both of them.

Jiggie
01-13-2011, 12:37 PM
"gets his first" ...

And that alone should give you the answer.

Felton is nothing more than a decent PG but he is by no means an all star or even remotely close to being one.

Yea, someone who is averaging 20+/10+ against the Elite PG's in the League is nothing more than a Decent PG... lol.

Jiggie
01-13-2011, 12:42 PM
Alright, I wont go too much into it, but overall, How long has felton been putting up these numbers? for a half season so far? Jennings actually has better stats then last year even though I believe his field goal percentage has been down from last year. If you watched the Bucks last year at all, you know what jennings did. jennings last year

GP↓ GS↓ MPG↓ FG%↓ 3P%↓ FT%↓ RPG↓ APG↓ SPG↓ BPG↓ PPG↓
82 82 32.6 .371 .374 .817 3.4 5.7 1.3 .2 15.5

felton from last year

80 80 33.0 .459 .385 .763 3.6 5.6 1.5 .3 12.1

Now you go into the playoffs that year and jennings numbers actually go up while feltons goes down.

Now Devin Harris do I really need to tell you what he does when he is healthy? and put down the stats down to show you what he has done during his career? before this half a season felton didn't do anything really. so you wanna try and compare players based on a half a season? then lets bring boris diaw in here and compare what he did compared to other SF and PF's by what he did for a half a season when he was playing so great. so a half a season makes someone better then 2 guys who has been playing well since they have been in the league? and even though harris's and jennings stats are better when both are healthy, it's not always about stats like ive said many of times.

Since when is averaging 15 Shots a game, shooting 37% a good season for anyone? lol...