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Kashmir13579
01-05-2011, 02:07 AM
CHICAGO -- Chicago Bulls point guard Derrick Rose believes he is a legitimate contender for the MVP award.

"I think so," he said after the Bulls defeated the New Jersey Nets 90-81 on Friday afternoon. "As long as we keep winning, I know I'm up there with the people that's in the race for it. I want to be it, so why not?"

Rose racked 19 points, 9 assists and 4 rebounds in the win and was showered with chants of "MVP, MVP" late in the game.

"I love it," he said of the chants. "Like I say, there's no point in playing this game if you're not trying to be the best. And this year I want to be MVP."

As far as his teammates are concerned, Rose is as good as anyone in the league.

"I don't see why he couldn't [be MVP]," Bulls forward Carlos Boozer said. "He carries our team every night. He makes plays, he scores the ball, rebounds the ball. I think he might be the only guy in the league averaging over 24 [points] and eight assists or whatever. He's special."

Rose came into Friday's contest averaging 24 points, 8.5 assists and five rebounds a game. It's those kinds of numbers that have fans and players alike believing the 22-year-old has a legitimate chance at the award.

"I'm not surprised because the talent is there," Boozer said. "The hunger is there, his heart's there. It's actually exciting to watch. As a teammate of him, it's fun to see what he's going to do every night."

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=5976066



http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=nowitdi01&y1=2011&p2=jamesle01&y2=2011&p3=paulch01&y3=2011&p4=rosede01&y4=2011

D Roses Bulls
01-05-2011, 02:09 AM
of course he is a candidate and if the voting was held today, He probably would win it. if the bulls can keep the 3rd-4th seed and rose still has these averages by the end of the season, I think he could win it.

Draco
01-05-2011, 02:09 AM
Chicago Bulls point guard Derrick Rose believes he is a legitimate contender for the MVP award.

we've already had one of these.. espn regurgitated an old story.

asandhu23
01-05-2011, 02:12 AM
Are you trying to suck up to Bulls fans?

northsider
01-05-2011, 02:19 AM
This won't end well.

tangent12
01-05-2011, 02:19 AM
Duuuuuuh. He was #1 on the last NBA.com MVP list.

We're all used to his greatness by now so the MVP talk is really not surprising at all.

iFYouSeekAmy
01-05-2011, 02:28 AM
Another? REALLY? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU.

nitric
01-05-2011, 02:30 AM
Article date = Dec. 31st

Baller1
01-05-2011, 02:31 AM
Obviously all this is true... This is just beating a dead horse.

tangent12
01-05-2011, 02:31 AM
Obviously all this is true... This is just beating a dead horse.

;)

D Roses Bulls
01-05-2011, 02:34 AM
wow, rose averages more blocks and less turnovers a game then lebron and rose is a pg. just wow

tangent12
01-05-2011, 02:35 AM
Rose is pretty awesome.

thebet
01-05-2011, 02:47 AM
We already know Rose is going to win the MVP this year. A better question is who is next years MVP? Derrick Rose: Next Years MVP?

sargon21
01-05-2011, 03:00 AM
^ lol

Bulls_fan90
01-05-2011, 03:02 AM
**** Derrick Rose. Landry Fields for MVP!!!

Hustlenomics
01-05-2011, 03:04 AM
Derrick Rose is the best player in NBA history

blueplanet
01-05-2011, 03:12 AM
Derrick Rose is the best player in NBA history

THIS. He is going to win next 10 mvps. He is far superior than others. D Rose > MJ officially.

Amare1
01-05-2011, 03:19 AM
wow, rose averages more blocks and less turnovers a game then lebron and rose is a pg. just wow

wow .58 blocks, big whoop lol

pd1dish
01-05-2011, 03:33 AM
wow .58 blocks, big whoop lol

well, you would think that lebron being 6'8 would average more blocks per game than rose who is 6'3

boozdawg
01-05-2011, 03:39 AM
Hey hey now everybody, lets not jump to conclusions. Yes, Rose is a great player, but are you guys forgetting about a certain player on the Knicks? A certain "Landry Fields".

Landry Fields may be the greatest player to ever step foot on court. Chuck Norris gets goosebumps when he walks on the court.

Landry Fields: MVP.

tredigs
01-05-2011, 03:41 AM
wow, rose averages more blocks and less turnovers a game then lebron and rose is a pg. just wow

Wow, D. Rose averages a far lower PER, has significantly less win shares and WS/48, a worse Defensive rating, worse offensive rating, and is just generally a far weaker player than Lebron. And Lebron does this alongside two former #1's who are both in their prime. Wow, just wow.

asandhu23
01-05-2011, 03:43 AM
Chuck Norris is jealous of Derrick Rose

Bullsfan22
01-05-2011, 03:50 AM
chuck norris is jealous of derrick rose

this.

John Walls Era
01-05-2011, 03:53 AM
This seriously could happen if the Bulls get the 1st or 2nd seed.

Chronz
01-05-2011, 04:00 AM
This is one of those MVP races with alot of WTF candidates. Still nothing is as bad as when Peja was a legit candidate

nickdymez
01-05-2011, 04:01 AM
Derrick Rose is actually a Unicorn in the form of a man playing basketball

Chronz
01-05-2011, 04:02 AM
Wow, D. Rose averages a far lower PER, has significantly less win shares and WS/48, a worse Defensive rating, worse offensive rating, and is just generally a far weaker player than Lebron. And Lebron does this alongside two former #1's who are both in their prime. Wow, just wow.

He doesnt believe in APBR Metrics so your waisting your time

sunnydayin'zona
01-05-2011, 04:03 AM
Wow, D. Rose averages a far lower PER, has significantly less win shares and WS/48, a worse Defensive rating, worse offensive rating, and is just generally a far weaker player than Lebron. And Lebron does this alongside two former #1's who are both in their prime. Wow, just wow.

damn, he just got pwned

kozelkid
01-05-2011, 04:03 AM
This seriously could happen if the Bulls get the 1st or 2nd seed.

Doubtful. Voters wouldn't give it to Rose cause he's "too young". Even if he had the numbers, which he doesn't anyway. I mean after the way the MVP was stolen from Chris Paul in 08 because he also was too young and he led his team to a great record AND had the stats to show for it.

My money is on Dirk and he certainly deserves it.

pd1dish
01-05-2011, 04:09 AM
Wow, D. Rose averages a far lower PER, has significantly less win shares and WS/48, a worse Defensive rating, worse offensive rating, and is just generally a far weaker player than Lebron. And Lebron does this alongside two former #1's who are both in their prime. Wow, just wow.

the people who vote for the award are a bunch of sports writers and sportscasters......i dont think they are paying attention to these random stats that no one has ever heard of before. they are simply going to look at PPG, APG, RPG, etc. basic stats, not stats that all these nerds come up with.

they are also taking into consideration who is more important to their team, which is how think of the MVP award. if i were a voter, i would view it as who is the most important to his team. at this point, rose is more important to his team than lebron is. the bulls lost a key player in noah, but are still winning because of rose's play on offense. i am confident that if you take lebron off of that team, the heat are still a pretty damn good team. this is not the case for the bulls if you took rose off the team.

lilojmayo
01-05-2011, 04:13 AM
Derrick Rose is the best point guard in the game. Deserves MVP if Bulls win 55+games this year

xabial
01-05-2011, 04:20 AM
Derrick Rose is the best point guard in the game. Deserves MVP if Bulls win 55+games this year

Deron Williams disagrees

tredigs
01-05-2011, 04:22 AM
the people who vote for the award are a bunch of sports writers and sportscasters......i dont think they are paying attention to these random stats that no one has ever heard of before. they are simply going to look at PPG, APG, RPG, etc. basic stats, not stats that all these nerds come up with.

they are also taking into consideration who is more important to their team, which is how think of the MVP award. if i were a voter, i would view it as who is the most important to his team. at this point, rose is more important to his team than lebron is. the bulls lost a key player in noah, but are still winning. i am confident that if you take lebron off of that team, the heat are still a pretty damn good team. this is not the case for the bulls if you took rose off the team.


The fact that you're wrong aside (being that many of those same 'stat nerds' have a vote), I'll put it in more laymen terms: Is there any doubt whatsoever that Lebron James is a top 3 player in the game? No, of course not. And is there any doubt whatsoever that his impact on a team is both being seen by Miami's dominance, and the Cavs fall from first to worst? No, of course not. Despite all the hate, he's the leading All Star vote gatherer in the East, and still well respected as arguably the best player in the game (not very arguable to many). Lebron also plays for a true contender (who would absolutely not be a true contender without him), and that significantly aids his case.

Rose on the other hand plays on a very respectable but non-contending Bulls squad, is not even considered top 3 at his position by most, let alone overall, and probably won't even start in the All-Star game. His team without him and replaced by a mediocre starter like Mike Conley goes from a 4th seed to a 6th-7th seed in the East, but either way they're not going through the Boston's or Miami's. A player like Noah's impact was proven to be just as vital to that teams success btw. They were playing great ball last year, then Noah goes out with plantar fasc: Que 10 game losing streak. Noah comes back, and normalcy returns. Rose is far from the only engine on that squad, especially with Boozer in town. This is no Lebron-on-the-Cavs situation we've got in Chi.

Edit: Now if you want to talk about DIRK or WADE being the MVP or co-MVP, then we've got ourselves a true discussion going. I have no idea how the voters will actually make their tally, but there's a MUCH stronger argument for those three over Rose.

ChiSox219
01-05-2011, 04:34 AM
The fact that you're wrong aside (being that many of those same 'stat nerds' have a vote), I'll put it in more laymen terms: Is there any doubt whatsoever that Lebron James is a top 3 player in the game? No, of course not. And is there any doubt whatsoever that his impact on a team is both being seen by Miami's dominance, and the Cavs fall from first to worst? No, of course not. Despite all the hate, he's the leading All Star vote gatherer in the East, and still well respected as arguably the best player in the game (not very arguable to many). Lebron also plays for a true contender (who would absolutely not be a true contender without him), and that significantly aids his case.

Rose on the other hand plays on a very respectable but non-contending Bulls squad, is not even considered top 3 at his position by most, let alone overall, and probably won't even start in the All-Star game. His team without him and replaced by a mediocre starter like Mike Conley goes from a 4th seed to a 6th-7th seed in the East, but either way they're not going through the Boston's or Miami's. A player like Noah's impact was proven to be just as vital to that teams success btw. They were playing great ball last year, then Noah goes out with plantar fasc: Que 10 game losing streak. Noah comes back, and normalcy returns. Rose is far from the only engine on that squad, especially with Boozer in town. This is no Lebron-on-the-Cavs situation we've got in Chi.

Edit: Now if you want to talk about DIRK or WADE being the MVP or co-MVP, then we've got ourselves a true discussion going. I have no idea how the voters will actually make their tally, but there's a MUCH stronger argument for those three over Rose.

Rose is #2 in APM

Bulls 10 game losing streak also came as a result of both Deng and Rose missing games in addition to Noah.

What makes you say the Bulls aren't contenders? #2 defense, #5 SRS, #5 in scoring margin, and #4 in Hollinger's power rankings...all this coming with a team that has only played 9 games with its full rotation.

kozelkid
01-05-2011, 04:42 AM
Not to mention, those 10 games were our toughest strentch of the year that people continue to ignore when bringing it up. So even with a healthy team, we'd have been lucky to have won 2-3 games at MOST.

And MVP is such a subjective award, stats or not. Personally, I think the impact a player has on his team is a huge factor. Which is a major reason imo why neither Lebron or Wade should win it, even if they are top 5 players in this league.

I also don't know how starting in the allstar game has ANYTHING to do with the conversation. It's a baseless point. Especially considering Durant didn't start last year and finished #2 in the MVP race. And btw, Rose caught up by 20,000 votes since the last tally and the difference is only 50k. That's nothing. He can very well start when it is all said and done.

Now I agree, in terms of PER or WS, Rose doesn't have the best case. Not the "best" case (because atm Dirk is the runaway candidate), but he is certainly a strong candidate and as chisox219 rightfully pointed out, APM prove that. And finally, the value between Rose and Noah is pretty vast. Even without Noah, we still have been an elite team defensively. In reality we are likely missing him more for his offense. As opposed to Rose who makes this team go offensively. Actually considering Noah's impact similar to Rose's is a complete joke.

tredigs
01-05-2011, 04:53 AM
Rose is #2 in APM

Bulls 10 game losing streak also came as a result of both Deng and Rose missing games in addition to Noah.

What makes you say the Bulls aren't contenders? #2 defense, #5 SRS, #5 in scoring margin, and #4 in Hollinger's power rankings...all this coming with a team that has only played 9 games with its full rotation.

Most NBA statisticians recommend using at least a one year sample size for APM due to its high volatility (considered just as volatile if not more so than net +/- at a 35 game scale), and most sites like BasketballValue have the 2-year APM as the most telling. So, I really have a problem taking it into account at this stage (Pretty sure Landry Fields is off the charts right now btw, and I didn't see Rose as #2 on the places I look, but I can believe it).

Deng + Rose missed games in that streak? Don't remember that. Regardless, my underlying point that he has a lot of help and is far from the only engine there is a pretty fair one I think.

And the fact that the Bulls have played so few games together and have such little continuity as a result is exactly why I don't think they're true contenders. I think you have to have an overwhelming amount of talent/mismatches to overcome a big shakeup to the lineup without playing at least half a season together, and I personally don't think that's the case in Chi. I do think they're arguably the 3rd best team in the East though, and will be contenders if they stay healthy pick up a better SG over the summer.

tredigs
01-05-2011, 05:01 AM
Not to mention, those 10 games were our toughest strentch of the year that people continue to ignore when bringing it up. So even with a healthy team, we'd have been lucky to have won 2-3 games at MOST.

And MVP is such a subjective award, stats or not. Personally, I think the impact a player has on his team is a huge factor. Which is a major reason imo why neither Lebron or Wade should win it, even if they are top 5 players in this league.

I also don't know how starting in the allstar game has ANYTHING to do with the conversation. It's a baseless point. Especially considering Durant didn't start last year and finished #2 in the MVP race. And btw, Rose caught up by 20,000 votes since the last tally and the difference is only 50k. That's nothing. He can very well start when it is all said and done.

Now I agree, in terms of PER or WS, Rose doesn't have the best case. Not the "best" case (because atm Dirk is the runaway candidate), but he is certainly a strong candidate and as chisox219 rightfully pointed out, APM prove that. And finally, the value between Rose and Noah is pretty vast. Even without Noah, we still have been an elite team defensively. In reality we are likely missing him more for his offense. As opposed to Rose who makes this team go offensively. Actually considering Noah's impact similar to Rose's is a complete joke.

Similar? Maybe not. But Boozers is pretty damn close. And my point is that the both of them together, along with Deng, make for a very formidable squad. Lebron's impact was undeniably ENORMOUS in his last two seasons (truly has a case as being arguably the most positively impactful one player has ever had on a team), and that is why he was the back to back MVP. No objective fan can argue that Rose has anywhere near that realm of impact on the Bulls. Even this year, the Heat would be a very good - not great - team with Wade and Bosh, but add in Lebron and they are among the top 3 in the league and legit contenders. That jump from 6th-10th best to top 3 is the toughest to make in the NBA, and he + Wade bring them that. Which is why I would argue that either have a better case than D. Rose.

Gotta be up in 4 and a half hours for work fellas, take it easy -

Chronz
01-05-2011, 05:08 AM
the people who vote for the award are a bunch of sports writers and sportscasters......i dont think they are paying attention to these random stats that no one has ever heard of before. they are simply going to look at PPG, APG, RPG, etc. basic stats, not stats that all these nerds come up with.
For the most part your right but the "nerds" are growing in #


they are also taking into consideration who is more important to their team, which is how think of the MVP award. if i were a voter, i would view it as who is the most important to his team. at this point, rose is more important to his team than lebron is. the bulls lost a key player in noah, but are still winning because of rose's play on offense. i am confident that if you take lebron off of that team, the heat are still a pretty damn good team. this is not the case for the bulls if you took rose off the team.

The voters can swing that in Brons favor as well, Chicago with Rose isnt as good as Miami with Bron so the dropoff is just as relevant. The Heat may or may not be a good team but they arent a powerhouse without him, Chicago isnt a powerhouse regardless.

Brons been in this position x100 when he was runnerup to guys with superior records.

kozelkid
01-05-2011, 05:08 AM
Similar? Maybe not. But Boozers is pretty damn close. And my point is that the both of them together, along with Deng, make for a very formidable squad. Lebron's impact was undeniably ENORMOUS in his last two seasons (truly has a case as being arguably the most positively impactful one player has ever had on a team), and that is why he was the back to back MVP. No objective fan can argue that Rose has anywhere near that realm of impact on the Bulls. Even this year, the Heat would be a very good - not great - team with Wade and Bosh, but add in Lebron and they are among the top 3 in the league and legit contenders. That jump from 6th-10th best to top 3 is the toughest to make in the NBA, and he + Wade bring them that. Which is why I would argue that either have a better case than D. Rose.

Gotta be up in 4 hours for work fellas, take it easy -

(A) I'm not so sure Wade-Miller-Bosh and whatever cap they would have if they wouldn't have Lebron wouldn't keep them from being a top 5 team in this league.

(B) The biggest reasoning for Rose as MVP is the fact he has done it with two major injuries on the team. This team was winning when Boozer was out for at least 20 games and is doing it now with Noah out for at least 20 or so. It's not even about stats. when we talk about Rose making this team go. This is where stats fall in basketball. Rose gels with these players and make his teammates succeed because he is the number one threat against the opposing team and the defense plans as such. There was a reason why at one point, our team was unbelievably lost as soon as Rose subbed out.

(C) And why are you comparing Lebron's past 2 seasons to Rose's anyway? Lebron had two seasons that statistically are pretty much once in a generation. Why not compare him to other previous MVPs like Dirk, Kobe (who I admit didn't deserve it with the season CP3 had), Nash and other previous ones.

In the end of the day, this is a very odd MVP race. Mainly cause Wade and Lebron took themselves out by joining together. Fair or not statistically, I think we can both agree, that voters are unllikely to vote for either. Then again, they are also unlikely to vote for Rose cause he's "too young". My money is on Dirk or CP3.

ChiSox219
01-05-2011, 05:13 AM
Most NBA statisticians recommend using at least a one year sample size for APM due to its high volatility (considered just as volatile if not more so than net +/- at a 35 game scale), and most sites like BasketballValue have the 2-year APM as the most telling. So, I really have a problem taking it into account at this stage (Pretty sure Landry Fields is off the charts right now btw, and I didn't see Rose as #2 on the places I look, but I can believe it).

I agree, the larger the sample the more accurate APM becomes. That said, the low end standard error still puts Rose at a high level this season.

Landry Fields does rank well and why shouldn't he? But he is a role player, Rose is a high usage #1 option that runs the offense.

http://basketballvalue.com/topplayers.php?year=2010-2011&mode=summary&sortnumber=94&sortorder=DESC



Deng + Rose missed games in that streak? Don't remember that. Regardless, my underlying point that he has a lot of help and is far from the only engine there is a pretty fair one I think.

Rose missed four games, Deng missed six. Of the ten games, seven were against teams that would make the playoffs.



And the fact that the Bulls have played so few games together and have such little continuity as a result is exactly why I don't think they're true contenders. I think you have to have an overwhelming amount of talent/mismatches to overcome a big shakeup to the lineup without playing at least half a season together, and I personally don't think that's the case in Chi. I do think they're arguably the 3rd best team in the East though, and will be contenders if they stay healthy pick up a better SG over the summer.

Continuity is not an issue. I'd say the injuries benefit the team long term because of the minutes Omer Asik and Taj Gibson have played.

The mismatches I'm worried about is with Atlanta and Orlando and we may not have to face either in the playoffs.

Bulls are ok at SG, that problem is overblown and Brewer has done a great job.

Don't sleep on Thibs.

S-Dot
01-05-2011, 09:36 AM
IMO no on maximizes on his abilities and plays tougher than Derrick Rose currently. He's definitely an MVP candidate this season. He still has to work on that jump shot though if he wants to extend his career.