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JordansBulls
01-04-2011, 01:31 PM
When Starting a franchise, how do you decide who to take?

For instance, normally when starting a franchise people would take a big man. There are general exceptions of course, but to me something that needs to be brought up is what those big men did with the franchise they went to.

For instance,

If you were to say who would you rather start a franchise with between Bird and Wilt, most would generally say Wilt because of what he did and how he dominated, but something that I consider is what they did for the Franchise.
Bird won titles with the franchise that drafted him while Wilt on the other hand had to be traded in order to win titles with other franchises.

So the point I am trying to make is why would you take Wilt over Bird if starting a franchise, if he didn't win with the franchise that drafted him and he needed to be traded? Isn't the point for the franchise is for you to lead them to title/titles and not go elsewhere and ask to be traded?

And there are numerous other examples. Such as with Moses Malone, Charles Barkley, Shaq to name a few.


Does that sound practical enough to choose the player that won with the franchise that drafted them vs a player that went elsewhere to win?


I want your Thoughts on this and how you reason and if this seems logical to you!!!!

Baller1
01-04-2011, 01:51 PM
I take LeBron, or possibly KD.

I make that decision based on who the best player is with the amount of years ahead of them.

pd1dish
01-04-2011, 02:06 PM
i think you take the very best young talent. so, imo, you take durant. or, since there is a very limited supply of good big men in this league, you go with howard. i wouldnt take a PG because there is a huge supply of PG's currently in the league.

BrahCake954
01-04-2011, 02:41 PM
lebron > durants life

stop it

F*(&"Next Year"
01-04-2011, 02:49 PM
You take the best available player. Then you take the best big if your first pick is a pg, sg or sf, or you take the best guard if your first pick was a big.


lebron > durants life

stop it
I'd take durant everytime over LBJ. He's younger and a far better person off the court. Also, bron hasn't won anything in 7 years, so you can stop acting like he's even close to being the GOAT.

HeaTxRipZz
01-04-2011, 02:49 PM
lebron > durants life

stop it

How is that even contributing to this thread? :facepalm:

anyways I think as far as current players I would go by age and talent already shown. Don't need projects being the face of a franchise. For Instance I would love to start a team with Dwight Howard at the Helm rather than a Cousins or Favors reguardless of potential. From there I would let everything else Fill itself out.

If I wanted to go the Wing route. I think my first choice would be Lebron James and get the correct pieces around him young and some really good veterans.

I think also what should be looked at is what type of system will be ran or what will be easier to build around and compete

S-Dot
01-04-2011, 02:59 PM
1. Age
2. Current Performance/Stats--> best player rather than simply picking the best big man.
3. Potential
4. How marketable is the guy.

heyman321
01-04-2011, 03:07 PM
I would take young/prime Shaq. The biggest beast ever. Also marketable, funny, loveable.

mttwlsn16
01-04-2011, 03:11 PM
Id take Blake Griffin. PF, beast, 21 years old, sky is the limit for this kid

mania03
01-04-2011, 03:11 PM
great post . I would go with a young talent like 'Lebron' or 'Dwight'. These guys rarely go through injuries and of course their stats speak for it. Even though LBJ hasn't won a championship in 7 years I would blame that on the organization cause LBJ is simply a superstar and we've seen superstars win before wade, kobe etc.

MurderousPress
01-04-2011, 03:17 PM
It's hard to say.

I don't like the example of Bird and Wilt, it's to contingent on many factors. Also, it's difficult to compare one player with another then make a generalized conclusion. Bird had some pretty great big men on his team (i.e. McHale, Parish) who certainly helped him win those titles. Compare him with Wilt, and it would seem that drafting a wing would be the best way to start a team, on the other hand, if you compare him with Bill Russell you would definitely take a big man.

For me personally, I would take a dominant big man, it makes everything easier on both defense--allowing your teammates to play ultra tight, knowing you have a beast protecting the rim--and offense--drawing double teams and opening up space for shooters.

If I had to draft anyone right now it would be Dwight Howard. Although a small part of me really wants to pick Blake Griffin, but the dudes highlight reel plays aren't enough to make up for his average (at best) defense.

Hawkeye15
01-04-2011, 03:27 PM
obviously you take Jordan.

But if you remove names, its probably better to take a top flight big man who can score and defend. Easy buckets and paint protection make every team's life easier.

JordansBulls
01-04-2011, 05:56 PM
It's hard to say.

I don't like the example of Bird and Wilt, it's to contingent on many factors. Also, it's difficult to compare one player with another then make a generalized conclusion. Bird had some pretty great big men on his team (i.e. McHale, Parish) who certainly helped him win those titles. Compare him with Wilt, and it would seem that drafting a wing would be the best way to start a team, on the other hand, if you compare him with Bill Russell you would definitely take a big man.

For me personally, I would take a dominant big man, it makes everything easier on both defense--allowing your teammates to play ultra tight, knowing you have a beast protecting the rim--and offense--drawing double teams and opening up space for shooters.

If I had to draft anyone right now it would be Dwight Howard. Although a small part of me really wants to pick Blake Griffin, but the dudes highlight reel plays aren't enough to make up for his average (at best) defense.

Well I used the Wilt example because other than probably MJ, Kareem, Russell or Magic, most would take Wilt over any other player.

Ty Fast
01-04-2011, 06:12 PM
you take the best player.

Chronz
01-04-2011, 09:03 PM
Them winning for another team aside from the one that drafted literally has NOTHING to do with my decision. That makes absolutely no sense

effen5
01-04-2011, 09:33 PM
you take the best player.

this...close thread

JordansBulls
01-05-2011, 01:05 AM
you take the best player.

Not if you know they will leave the franchise high and dry.

TrueFan420
01-05-2011, 04:01 AM
you take size because you cant teach it

JordansBulls
01-07-2011, 09:42 AM
you take size because you cant teach it

I think you guys are missing the point. The point is why would you take a guy who ended up leaving his franchise and won with another franchise over a player that stayed with the original franchise and won with them?

NBA-GMaster
01-07-2011, 09:56 AM
I'll take the best player in the league plus he must be unselfish and a team leader like Jordan,Bird or Magic..

IndyRealist
01-07-2011, 10:20 AM
I'll take the best player in the league plus he must be unselfish and a team leader like Jordan,Bird or Magic..

All of those players were pretty selfish.

IndyRealist
01-07-2011, 10:24 AM
If you're not looking at names, at all, then you take the talented big man. Not because he's tall (you can't teach size is a fallacy, DeJuan Blair plays pretty big for 6'6"). You take the talented big man because a good big man is 10x better than an average big man. So if you're going to have 4 average players and one good player, for their position, I'd take the big man 100% of the time.

My second choice would be point guard. Again, a good point guard is much, Much, MUCH, better than an average PG.

canigetawitness
01-07-2011, 10:46 AM
JB, to ask that is to assume that we'd have some kind of insight into what the players would become. Who knew Bird would be a champion several times over? It's a crap shoot.

canigetawitness
01-07-2011, 10:47 AM
But yeah, I would take the big man. The big man, no matter what trends the league might tend toward, is always pivotal. He grabs the rebounds and is near the basket for high % shots. You can't NOT go for the big man (ok, now no one bring up Sam Bowie\Kwame Brown\Tractor Traylor now).

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-07-2011, 10:54 AM
When starting a franchise I believe ya start with a expansion draft. Don't take players just to fill the roster. But take Savvy vets like the Raptors did with Davis and Oakley. Then go for best available talents in the draft. Never go for need cause then your reaching. Go for best player. Cause if he matches what you have, can always trade the other matching player later. Also don't over pay. Be smart with payroll.

jtsunami
01-07-2011, 11:20 AM
With current players, you obviously have to factor in youth because your team is not guaranteed to be good in the near future. So you have to factor youth and skill for a fantasy draft. I'd say the first 10 picks of a real life fantasy draft would go as follows:

Lebron
Dwight
KD
Rose
Griffin
Deron Williams
CP3
Wade
Westbrook
Rondo

And no, I did not forget about Kobe or Melo.

JordansBulls
01-07-2011, 02:03 PM
JB, to ask that is to assume that we'd have some kind of insight into what the players would become. Who knew Bird would be a champion several times over? It's a crap shoot.

I am more or less thinking about if you had the opportunity now to choose any of those players for a new franchise, why would you chose a player that left the franchise?

mikantsass
01-07-2011, 02:27 PM
A quality Big man is important. Look at the NBA champs this past decade. All had very good big ma(e)n. You can even take it a step further and look at teams that made the finals, or teams that made the conference finals. The pattern is true, a quality big guy(s) is key

lkingratedr
01-07-2011, 03:17 PM
since im starting a franchise i guess i would start @ the draft

so ever one saying pick the best player you have to look at some of the people who were drafted before some nba stars right now

sam bowie looked better than jordan in the draft
darko was drafted over melo wade and bosh
oden over durant (even though oden was a beast)
adam morrison people lets forget adam morrison

i honestly think as a franchise when it comes to picking you have to think about every aspect of the game...

i would say pick the person who in your personal opinion could be the face of the franchise some1 that people would pay to see some1 that could bring as much exposure to your team as possible not just the top guy coming out of high school or college cause as we also seen with kwame brown people would pay him to leave their team

iCOOKiE MONSTER
01-07-2011, 03:41 PM
You take the best available player. Then you take the best big if your first pick is a pg, sg or sf, or you take the best guard if your first pick was a big.


I'd take durant everytime over LBJ. He's younger and a far better person off the court. Also, bron hasn't won anything in 7 years, so you can stop acting like he's even close to being the GOAT.


Enough said :)

JordansBulls
01-13-2011, 11:15 PM
since im starting a franchise i guess i would start @ the draft

so ever one saying pick the best player you have to look at some of the people who were drafted before some nba stars right now

sam bowie looked better than jordan in the draft
darko was drafted over melo wade and bosh
oden over durant (even though oden was a beast)
adam morrison people lets forget adam morrison

i honestly think as a franchise when it comes to picking you have to think about every aspect of the game...

i would say pick the person who in your personal opinion could be the face of the franchise some1 that people would pay to see some1 that could bring as much exposure to your team as possible not just the top guy coming out of high school or college cause as we also seen with kwame brown people would pay him to leave their team

Good post

oldfishermen
01-14-2011, 12:19 AM
History tells us building a championship team is most often done through drafting a franchise player, not through trades or FA signings. Trades and FA signings are for acquiring the supporting players.. The draft is where you will find your franchise player to build the team around. Without the franchise player, your team does not have a chance of winning a championship. Drafting players with potential is way overrated and an endless mine field. Draft players that have proven in College to have a high level of both offensive and defensive skills, not just being very good at one or the other. Next look at the heart of the player.. Does he have the drive to win at all costs, placing the team above his own self interests.. The players that have all of these values and skills are very rare.. But that is what I would look for in the draft, not potential, or size.

northsider
01-14-2011, 12:27 AM
For me its between Dwight, Bron, and KD with KD having a slight edge.

JordansBulls
01-19-2011, 12:32 AM
For me its between Dwight, Bron, and KD with KD having a slight edge.

I don't think you understood what I meant for the topic. Why would you choose Bron over KD or Dwight if you know he leaves in 7 years from your franchise?

Y2JOrdan
01-19-2011, 12:54 AM
I prefer to start a team around a top point guard, so maybe a player like Rose, CP3, or Deron williams

Raph12
01-19-2011, 02:53 AM
I prefer to start a team around a top point guard, so maybe a player like Rose, CP3, or Deron williams

Nah, good/great PGs are a dime a dozen in today's league; elite bigs like D12 and BG are as rare as diamonds and Lebron is a once in a generation type player...

MackShock
01-19-2011, 04:01 AM
this also works for fantasy draft

SugeKnight
01-19-2011, 04:13 AM
I would take a young Duncan. Great defender, scorer and leader.

SugeKnight
01-19-2011, 04:15 AM
If it was right now, I would have to take Lebron. Dwight second.

Durant has some issues with his handles and Im too afraid of Blake Griffin getting injured.

D1JM
01-19-2011, 04:27 AM
Michael ****en Jordan. How are people not picking Jordan? Hawkeye the only one that picked him.

kobe24>lebron23
01-19-2011, 04:32 AM
If everyone currently in the NBA was 24 id take number 24 kobe bryant... But since that's not the question and we r just talking about who to take to start a franchise you look at...
The skillset
Defense
Shooting ability
Passing ability!
Killer instinct(clutch) what more can u ask for
Plus potential

Lol at people mentioning player when that clearly wasn't what the OP was asking!

Rego247
01-19-2011, 04:44 AM
if this all time. then i'd take mj. how could i not?

JordansBulls
01-21-2011, 03:33 PM
Michael ****en Jordan. How are people not picking Jordan? Hawkeye the only one that picked him.

:confused:

This thread isn't about him. This thread is about why would you take a player that was an all time great if he left your franchise without winning to win somewhere else. This is why the Wilt vs Bird was used. Also it could apply to Shaq (leaving Orlando to LA) vs Hakeem who stayed and won in Houston.

blastmasta26
01-21-2011, 08:56 PM
I don't think you understood what I meant for the topic. Why would you choose Bron over KD or Dwight if you know he leaves in 7 years from your franchise?
I don't get the point of this thread. The stars that left their teams did so because they were surrounded with insufficient talent due to incompetent management. If I was running a team, I would take a guy like LBJ every time because I would be confident in my ability to build a winning team and if I didn't and LeBron left, it would by my fault anyway.

JordansBulls
01-22-2011, 12:17 AM
I don't get the point of this thread. The stars that left their teams did so because they were surrounded with insufficient talent due to incompetent management. If I was running a team, I would take a guy like LBJ every time because I would be confident in my ability to build a winning team and if I didn't and LeBron left, it would by my fault anyway.


It is not that. A star builds a team from the ground up. That is why you are essentially starting a franchise with them. If they are going to leave, then why start a team with them?

LayZbone
01-22-2011, 12:34 AM
It is not that. A star builds a team from the ground up. That is why you are essentially starting a franchise with them. If they are going to leave, then why start a team with them?

stop it, JB. You know damn well that Lebron's supporting casts have always been less than impressive, and it's the front office's job to place the necessary pieces around their superstar. You can't just say it's up to the player to elevate the filth around him and singlehandedly lead them to a championship. That's not fair. And if the right pieces are put around a player like Lebron James, then he doesn't leave after 7 years, and he's easily the right choice for starting a new franchise. And for the love of god, don't compare his situation to Michael Jordan's again. You've done that to death, and you have no other examples of a superstar who has had to endure what Lebron has for as long as he did, and still stick it out to eventually win a title.

"Do you take the player that leaves or the player that stays?" What the hell does that even mean? It's all relative to what you do as a front office executive to keep that player happy. Larry Bird enjoyed playing with Hall of Fame level talent very early on, as did Magic Johnson, etc. Those players didn't leave. Kobe had to suffer through a few seasons of mediocrity, and he demands a trade. The front office delivers on bringing him a fellow all-star, so he stays. Cleveland's front office failed Lebron, so he left. Simple as that.

LayZbone
01-22-2011, 12:40 AM
I mean how would you even know if a player is going to leave or stay in the future? As if it's relative to their character, Player A stays committed to his franchise, but Player B is a quitter, no matter what. it has nothing to do with what you surround him with. He's gonna leave after 7 years. Wow, JB.

Sixerlover
01-22-2011, 01:20 AM
In today's NBA I'd probably go:
Lebron
Dwight
Durant
Griffin

It's a mesh of a lot of things, but lets not get confused, talent is the #1 factor with age being the #2 factor. And I'd never take a PG 1st unless it was Magic. PG's are overrated in terms of championship teams.

Mochalman
01-22-2011, 01:22 AM
i'd take dwight first

JordansBulls
01-22-2011, 04:14 PM
stop it, JB. You know damn well that Lebron's supporting casts have always been less than impressive, and it's the front office's job to place the necessary pieces around their superstar. You can't just say it's up to the player to elevate the filth around him and singlehandedly lead them to a championship. That's not fair. And if the right pieces are put around a player like Lebron James, then he doesn't leave after 7 years, and he's easily the right choice for starting a new franchise. And for the love of god, don't compare his situation to Michael Jordan's again. You've done that to death, and you have no other examples of a superstar who has had to endure what Lebron has for as long as he did, and still stick it out to eventually win a title.

"Do you take the player that leaves or the player that stays?" What the hell does that even mean? It's all relative to what you do as a front office executive to keep that player happy. Larry Bird enjoyed playing with Hall of Fame level talent very early on, as did Magic Johnson, etc. Those players didn't leave. Kobe had to suffer through a few seasons of mediocrity, and he demands a trade. The front office delivers on bringing him a fellow all-star, so he stays. Cleveland's front office failed Lebron, so he left. Simple as that.

There are plenty of guys who stayed with there franchises. Ewing, David Robinson, Karl Malone, Hakeem Olajuwon, MJ. Of those that won as the best in the league were MJ and Hakeem. Jerry West was also another one who stayed with his franchise and won, so did Walt Frazier.

LayZbone
01-22-2011, 06:12 PM
There are plenty of guys who stayed with there franchises. Ewing, David Robinson, Karl Malone, Hakeem Olajuwon, MJ. Of those that won as the best in the league were MJ and Hakeem. Jerry West was also another one who stayed with his franchise and won, so did Walt Frazier.

Ok Hakeem, West and Robinson are good examples of sticking it out to win a title, though I still doubt that many perennial superstars had to play with supporting casts as trashy as Lebron's or early MJ's, for as long as they had to. Malone and Ewing have nothing to show for staying with their teams. You've still ignored all of my other points. This thread makes no sense. The only thing separating a guy like Lebron from a guy like Kobe is that one had a pathetic front office for the 1st half of his career. It's all circumstantial. You choose the best player to start a franchise. This whole "knowing what you know now" argument is flawed. It doesn't matter whether Player A left or Player B stayed. You're asking who to take, hypothetically, if we were starting a franchise now. So what has really happened in history as far as players switching teams doesn't matter. I'm going by the assumption that I'm competent as a FO executive. If I give a player like Lebron the luxuries that were enjoyed by players like Bird, Magic, etc, playing with championship-caliber talent, then I have one happy, faithful, dominant superstar in LBJ.

JordansBulls
01-23-2011, 02:00 AM
Ok Hakeem, West and Robinson are good examples of sticking it out to win a title, though I still doubt that many perennial superstars had to play with supporting casts as trashy as Lebron's or early MJ's, for as long as they had to. Malone and Ewing have nothing to show for staying with their teams. You've still ignored all of my other points. This thread makes no sense. The only thing separating a guy like Lebron from a guy like Kobe is that one had a pathetic front office for the 1st half of his career. It's all circumstantial. You choose the best player to start a franchise. This whole "knowing what you know now" argument is flawed. It doesn't matter whether Player A left or Player B stayed. You're asking who to take, hypothetically, if we were starting a franchise now. So what has really happened in history as far as players switching teams doesn't matter. I'm going by the assumption that I'm competent as a FO executive. If I give a player like Lebron the luxuries that were enjoyed by players like Bird, Magic, etc, playing with championship-caliber talent, then I have one happy, faithful, dominant superstar in LBJ.

I'm not saying Lebron played with the talent that Magic or Bird or even Kobe came in with. I'm more or less comparing guys who didn't have good situations initially and stuck it out. Drexler is another guy and he made the finals twice and was on elite teams in Portland for a while. Isiah Thomas also was another who stuck it out and then won titles later on on the Pistons.