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View Full Version : Can a case be made for Jason Kidd being the best PG ever?



Greet
12-31-2010, 02:24 AM
After watching Jason Kidd at the age of 37 record yet another triple double, it make me think back and realize on how great of a player, and how dominant of a player. No one ran an offense like Jason Kidd, he revolutionized defense from the PG position being able to guard any type of guard and most forwards. I think all-around PGs, Jason Kidd could be considered the best ever.

hotpotato1092
12-31-2010, 02:25 AM
No. A certain Laker holds that title.

Hustlenomics
12-31-2010, 02:25 AM
woah no, Magic>

Hawkeye15
12-31-2010, 02:28 AM
nope. Top 5-10 PG's of all time? Sure. Be he doesn't have the numbers, rings, accolades, or dominance among peers of Magic or Stockton, and he hasn't put up numbers that are good enough to finish in the top 3-4 PGs.

That being said, he is still playing, and playing ok. If the Mavs win a ring with him as their starting PG, he obviously gets helped in the all time rankings. Not much, but he deserves recognition.

PLAYERS FAN
12-31-2010, 02:29 AM
He's better than Stockton, but not Magic.

drobe86
12-31-2010, 02:30 AM
Possibly, but he has to get a ring to solidify. Even then he'll be behind Magic but at least in the argument. After we get this ring, he'll ride off into the sunset as #2....

210Don
12-31-2010, 02:30 AM
nope.

Hawkeye15
12-31-2010, 02:36 AM
He's better than Stockton, but not Magic.

how is he better than Stockton?

BRADfromOZ
12-31-2010, 02:36 AM
One could be made, but you can't dislodge Magic or Stockton from the top two spots.

Raps18-19 Champ
12-31-2010, 02:40 AM
Accomplishments aside and judging based on their game, you could make a strong case for him being top 3.

But the reason guys like Magic and Isaiah are ahead of him is because they have rings to show off on top of their elite game. Kidd can play no doubt, but it hasn't translated into a ring. Then again, Stockton didn't win a ring but he's considered to be 2nd best PG all time but that's because the total amount of assist he put up along with his defense were out of this world. But Kidd will be a top 10 PG when he finishes his career.

krazylegz
12-31-2010, 02:40 AM
^^^i also agree that an argument certainly can be made...j kidd was amazing

tdunk21
12-31-2010, 02:40 AM
what happened to magic, stockton, nash?

sunsfan88
12-31-2010, 02:40 AM
Steve Nash > Jason Kidd

Nash puts up better numbers DESPITE playing without Amare while Kidd has Nowitzki, Butler, Terry etc.

Raps18-19 Champ
12-31-2010, 02:43 AM
Steve Nash > Jason Kidd

Nash puts up better numbers DESPITE playing without Amare while Kidd has Nowitzki, Butler, Terry etc.

That means Nash is the main man on the team in terms of offense and J.Kidd is behind a lot of players.

Hustlenomics
12-31-2010, 02:43 AM
he's better than stockton, but not magic.

lmfao

Hawkeye15
12-31-2010, 02:46 AM
Accomplishments aside and judging based on their game, you could make a strong case for him being top 3.

But the reason guys like Magic and Isaiah are ahead of him is because they have rings to show off on top of their elite game. Kidd can play no doubt, but it hasn't translated into a ring. Then again, Stockton didn't win a ring but he's considered to be 2nd best PG all time but that's because the total amount of assist he put up along with his defense were out of this world. But Kidd will be a top 10 PG when he finishes his career.

its not just the totals. Its sustained dominance, his durability, and his peak was a number of years long, compared to most players who have a 3 years peak max. Stockton put up amazing assist numbers, was a great defender, tough without the ball, and just the definition of team basketball. Add to that he was tough as nails, and he is right behind Magic.

Hawkeye15
12-31-2010, 02:47 AM
Steve Nash > Jason Kidd

Nash puts up better numbers DESPITE playing without Amare while Kidd has Nowitzki, Butler, Terry etc.

I dont mean this in a bad way at all, but what age are you?

Me and Mr. T
12-31-2010, 02:51 AM
We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees - Jason Kidd

:facepalm:

Hustlenomics
12-31-2010, 02:52 AM
We're going to turn this team around 360 degrees - Jason Kidd

:facepalm:

lmao..

MJ-BULLS
12-31-2010, 02:58 AM
the magic man is still the best pg.

Hellcrooner
12-31-2010, 02:58 AM
Magic, Stockton, Oscar Robertson, Isiah Thomas those 4 are Clear Cut over him.

Bob Cousy, Maravich, Payton, Nash are players he has to face to get a positioning on the top 10 where he belongs for sure.

MacFitz92
12-31-2010, 03:00 AM
Jason Kidd use to have it all.

My list would go:

1. Magic
2. Kidd
3. Stockton
4. O-Train
5. Thomas
6. Nash

Kashmir13579
12-31-2010, 03:00 AM
His career numbers are amazing. i don't think he's the best EVER but maybe top 5. it would've helped his case a lot if he had won a couple of those finals appearances.

Kashmir13579
12-31-2010, 03:02 AM
I dont mean this in a bad way at all, but what age are you?

lol. Nash could have a case over him, imo. they are/were both spectacular PGs with no rings.

Korman12
12-31-2010, 03:03 AM
Magic is the clear #1 and Stockton and Isiah are behind him, so no.

Kidd's only weakness is his career FG%. Statistically, besides the amazing passing ability and defense, Kidd was a mediocre shooter throughout his career (.402% overall). That alone puts him behind those guys.

MacFitz92
12-31-2010, 03:03 AM
Except one glaring difference. Nash is a horrific defender, Kidd was an All-Defense defender.

Hawkeye15
12-31-2010, 03:06 AM
lol. Nash could have a case over him, imo. they are/were both spectacular PGs with no rings.

yes and no. Nash is exponentially a better scoring threat. But their court vision is nixed out, and Kidd is exponentially a better defender. So its a matter of opinion. When you add the fact that Nash won 2 MVP's (whether you agree with them or not), you are absolutely right that a case can be made for Nash over Kidd.
I honestly haven't spent time evaluating them next to each other. Can't lose either way...

PLAYERS FAN
12-31-2010, 03:07 AM
how is he better than Stockton?

Kidd lead the Nets two straight Finals without a player like Karl Malone. It's obvious the Jazz was Karl's team, and the Net's was Kidd's team! John Stockton was Karl Malone "second fiddle" the word that u use a lot.:D

sagemania
12-31-2010, 03:07 AM
Stockton is one of the best Points ever. Kidd is another alltime great as well, but Stockton is tad better.

Hawkeye15
12-31-2010, 03:09 AM
Except one glaring difference. Nash is a horrific defender, Kidd was an All-Defense defender.

and Nash is arguably the best shooter of all time, while we are still waiting on Kidd to become a shooter.

They are both great at opposite extremes, and share a common strength.

Hawkeye15
12-31-2010, 03:11 AM
Kidd lead the Nets two straight Finals without a player like Karl Malone. It's obvious the Jazz was Karl's team, and the Net's was Kidd's team! John Stockton was Karl Malone "second fiddle" the word that u use a lot.:D

so you think the early 2000's east was anywhere near the strength of the west during the Jazz's deep playoffs runs?

The Stockton/Malone Jazz would have torn apart the Nets with Kidd leading them.

PLAYERS FAN
12-31-2010, 03:19 AM
lmfao

I think it's kinda hypocritical that ur not agreeing with me on this. Remember, Jason Kidd lead his team to two straight Finals with out all-star player! Be consistent Iverson fan:laugh2:

RATTLER14
12-31-2010, 03:20 AM
No. He doesnt have a case. Nash is a lot better and Nash isnt even in the top 3 probably

Agent008
12-31-2010, 03:21 AM
I think that a case can be made for Kidd as the greatest PG ever. Magic won a lot of championships, but his supporting cast was ridiculously good. Kidd took the Nets to the Finals twice and the second best player on his team was Kenyon Martin. Kenyon isn't a bad player, but he's no Worthy or Kareem. You can argue that the Lakers would have won just as many championships if you put Kidd in Magic's place.

All that being said, I'm just saying that you can make an argument for Kidd. I still think that Magic and Isiah were better than him and it's a toss-up between him and Stockton. Also, everyone is sleeping on the Glove by not mentioning him as one of the top PGs all time.

Hustlenomics
12-31-2010, 03:21 AM
and Nash is arguably the best shooter of all time, while we are still waiting on Kidd to become a shooter.

They are both great at opposite extremes, and share a common strength.

ray allen best be in that argument


I think it's kinda hypocritical that ur not agreeing with me on this. Remember, Jason Kidd lead his team to two straight Finals with out all-star player! Be consistent Iverson fan:laugh2:

lol Magic is still the best point guard of all time

OnslaughtXX6
12-31-2010, 03:22 AM
He's better than Stockton, but not Magic.

Hahahahahahaha no.

Hawkeye15
12-31-2010, 03:23 AM
ray allen best be in that argument


yeppers. Top 5 shooters of all time for Ray-Ray

Kashmir13579
12-31-2010, 03:23 AM
yes and no. Nash is exponentially a better scoring threat. But their court vision is nixed out, and Kidd is exponentially a better defender. So its a matter of opinion. When you add the fact that Nash won 2 MVP's (whether you agree with them or not), you are absolutely right that a case can be made for Nash over Kidd.
I honestly haven't spent time evaluating them next to each other. Can't lose either way...

Very true.


so you think the early 2000's east was anywhere near the strength of the west during the Jazz's deep playoffs runs?

The Stockton/Malone Jazz would have torn apart the Nets with Kidd leading them.

YES:clap:

to put it in perspective, the East is still very weak compared to the West, but it has gotten MUCH stronger since the days Nets were conference champs.

MacFitz92
12-31-2010, 03:24 AM
It's funny to hear everyone state their opinions as facts.

PLAYERS FAN
12-31-2010, 03:24 AM
so you think the early 2000's east was anywhere near the strength of the west during the Jazz's deep playoffs runs?

The Stockton/Malone Jazz would have torn apart the Nets with Kidd leading them.

No! ;)

MacFitz92
12-31-2010, 03:25 AM
yeppers. Top 5 shooters of all time for Ray-Ray

Dirk better be in it too ;)

goose14741
12-31-2010, 03:31 AM
walt clyde frazier is the greatest

heatking
12-31-2010, 03:32 AM
Jkidd im real happy for you and ima let you finish, but Magic was one of the best point guards of all time!

goose14741
12-31-2010, 03:32 AM
scratch that, oscar robertson then clyde then magic

Blazers#1Fan
12-31-2010, 03:34 AM
Nope i still like Nash over kidd i also think Magic,Stockton,Payton are better and when pete Maravich played the point he was still better then kidd and if CP3 plays like this he will be considered better

ChiSox219
12-31-2010, 03:35 AM
and Nash is arguably the best shooter of all time, while we are still waiting on Kidd to become a shooter.

They are both great at opposite extremes, and share a common strength.


Kidd's jumper has been nice for a while now and he's even extended out to become a great 3 point shooter.


One can only wonder how Kidd's career would have played out if he had a dominant big like Karl Malone. Too bad we never saw that trade to San Antonio.

knicks4life33
12-31-2010, 03:37 AM
how can u say jason kidd is better then stockton lol u know nothing about basketball or just are a new generation basketball fan lol

Blazers#1Fan
12-31-2010, 03:42 AM
scratch that, oscar robertson then clyde then magic

im lost are you talking bout PG's? or SG's?

Blazers#1Fan
12-31-2010, 03:46 AM
how can u say jason kidd is better then stockton lol u know nothing about basketball or just are a new generation basketball fan lol

:clap:

blueplanet
12-31-2010, 03:49 AM
Nash >> Kidd.

Cano4prez
12-31-2010, 03:54 AM
The best half white half black PG ever

MacFitz92
12-31-2010, 04:03 AM
how can u say jason kidd is better then stockton lol u know nothing about basketball or just are a new generation basketball fan lol

In which ways does this statement hold any truth whatsoever.

Blazers#1Fan
12-31-2010, 04:06 AM
The best half white half black PG ever

that i give him!

Blazers#1Fan
12-31-2010, 04:11 AM
In which ways does this statement hold any truth whatsoever.

cuz if you think kidd is better stockton then you never watched Stockton!

Storch
12-31-2010, 04:12 AM
Jerry West? Oscar Robertson? Isiah Thomas? Magic? Stockton? Nash?

I made my point.

TopsyTurvy
12-31-2010, 04:13 AM
Sure Kidd is up there with the elite but Oscar Robertson, Stockton, and Magic are easily tops in no particular order.

(Across his first 5 years in the league Robertson averaged 30+ppg, 10+apg, and 10+rpg)

I would also point to Cousy, Zeke, Payton, and Frazier...

iggypop123
12-31-2010, 04:16 AM
no. magic. end of story. one of the few positions that requires no debate.

Storch
12-31-2010, 04:18 AM
no. magic. end of story. one of the few positions that requires no debate.

Oscar vs. Magic is debatable. Do some research.

Ty Fast
12-31-2010, 04:19 AM
Oscar Robertson and Magic are better all around

Blazers#1Fan
12-31-2010, 04:19 AM
Sure Kidd is up there with the elite but Oscar Robertson and Stockton are easily one and two in no particular order.

(Across his first 5 years in the league Robertson averaged 30+ppg, 10+apg, and 10+rpg)

I would also point to Cousy, Zeke, Payton, Frazier, and Magic...

:clap:

sunsfan88
12-31-2010, 04:23 AM
I dont mean this in a bad way at all, but what age are you?

Why dont you tell me why its so ridiculous to compare Nash & Kidd before you mock me duma**.

jtoledo86
12-31-2010, 04:24 AM
how can u say jason kidd is better then stockton lol u know nothing about basketball or just are a new generation basketball fan lol

I can't believe I'm agreeing with a knick's fan being from Miami, but, he's right. Jason Kidd over Magic, big o, stockton, Isiah or even nash? Gotta be a bunch of new fans in here. Man I think I would even take old Timmy Hardaway and Walt "clyde" Frazier over Kidd.

TopsyTurvy
12-31-2010, 04:26 AM
I can't believe I'm agreeing with a knick's fan being from Miami, but, he's right. Jason Kidd over Magic, big o, stockton, Isiah or even nash? Gotta be a bunch of new fans in here. Man I think I would even take old Timmy Hardaway and Walt "clyde" Frazier over Kidd.

KJ too!

JayW_1023
12-31-2010, 04:28 AM
In his prime he was so amazing. He could dominate a game without taking a shot.

You can't tell now, but in his prime he was one of the fastest players with the ball...it was amazing to see him just tear things up in transition...passing so effortlessly at breakneck speed.

J4KOP99
12-31-2010, 04:29 AM
First, Kidd isn't top 5 IMO:

Magic
Oscar
Stockton
I. Thomas
Cousy or Frazier


Second, In My Very Own Opinion:

I would take Kidd over Nash in a ****ing heart beat. Nash's absolute refusal to play any defense whatsoever completely kills it for me. I will take Kidd's very solid offense(let's not KID ourselves here, the guy can score in a multitude of ways) and his top-notch defense over Nash's incredible shooting and horrific defense.

The passing is even for both. Kidd and Nash are two of the best passing point guards ever, IDK how you can decide which one is better in that regard... stat's don't nearly tell the whole story.

When you break it all down, Kidd is one of the all-time greats but not in any argument for best of all time. In my opinion of course.

Storch
12-31-2010, 04:33 AM
Why dont you tell me why its so ridiculous to compare Nash & Kidd before you mock me duma**.

I guarantee you're under 20

shep33
12-31-2010, 04:34 AM
I love Jkidd... but Magic is the best pg of all-time, and it makes you wonder how great his stats would've been had he played a few more years. 12 years only.

xabial
12-31-2010, 04:45 AM
i have a feeling this guy is going to play till he's 40 and he aint slowing down

sunsfan88
12-31-2010, 04:58 AM
I can't believe I'm agreeing with a knick's fan being from Miami, but, he's right. Jason Kidd over Magic, big o, stockton, Isiah or even nash? Gotta be a bunch of new fans in here. Man I think I would even take old Timmy Hardaway and Walt "clyde" Frazier over Kidd.
Yea we have a lot of idiots here who think Kidd is better than Nash. Storch and Hawkeye15.

JayW_1023
12-31-2010, 04:59 AM
Tim hardaway over JKidd...in their primes? Someone is completely BLIND.


Kidd is a top 10 PG of all time and a sure fire Hall of Famer

jmtapia
12-31-2010, 05:01 AM
No!

Kyben36
12-31-2010, 05:17 AM
I dont think so. he is good/great, but no where near what I would consider the best ever. he never realy won anything.

Chronz
12-31-2010, 05:28 AM
Kidd running an elite offense? In his prime his teams were regularly abysmal on that end, its D that made Kidd rare.

show34
12-31-2010, 06:05 AM
Thhe case could be made but where are you gonna put him ? Was he better than majic, stockton kevin johnson,isaiah. Walt frazier, havelicheck cousy, iverson,tim hardaway terrell brandon, mark price,i mean really he deserves the hype but where can you put him?

Heediot
12-31-2010, 06:23 AM
One could be made, but you can't dislodge Magic or Stockton from the top two spots.

1.Magic
2. Oscar Robertson

Stockton is top 5 and still better than Kidd

Heediot
12-31-2010, 06:23 AM
One could be made, but you can't dislodge Magic or Stockton from the top two spots.

1.Magic
2. Oscar Robertson

Stockton is a top 5 all time.

Heediot
12-31-2010, 06:23 AM
One could be made, but you can't dislodge Magic or Stockton from the top two spots.

1.Magic
2. Oscar Robertson

Stockton is a top 5 all time. Still better than Kidd though.

tredigs
12-31-2010, 06:34 AM
Kidd would've tooled Big O up and down the court in his prime, and Magic was fortunate enough to be on great enough teams to not have to worry about things like defense. J. Kidd's a legend, where you rank him amongst the greats is up to your own interpretation.

I'm Seriously
12-31-2010, 07:55 AM
Not Sure If Serious

I'm Seriously
12-31-2010, 07:56 AM
Not Sure If Serious.

Raidaz4Life
12-31-2010, 08:22 AM
I think Stockton is the best PG of all time
I think Magic Johnson is the best player to ever play the PG position

Those two are 1A AND 1B


Kidd rounds out the top 5 somewhere.

ShakeN'Bake
12-31-2010, 08:26 AM
I think Stockton is the best PG of all time
I think Magic Johnson is the best player to ever play the PG position

Those two are 1A AND 1B


Kidd rounds out the top 5 somewhere.

I agree with this. I think Stockton was a pure PG and Magic was an amazing player that could play pg.

Wade>You
12-31-2010, 08:31 AM
I think the lack of championships is a valid argument because he turned down the opportunity to play with Tim Duncan and the Spurs, instead opting for the money and the chance to do it himself when he knew that was improbable (Talking about Lakers/Spurs dynasty era). He's still a great PG nonetheless. GOAT at his position? Personally, I don't think so.

Nica
12-31-2010, 08:48 AM
Kidd is a great PG. While not a great shooter he more than makes up for that with his unselfishness and a willingness to head into the land of the trees. Rebounding is all about desire and effort and J-Kidd has that attribute. Maybe to a fault. If I were a forward and my PG was constantly undermining me by grabbing boards ( especially in our end) that I could be getting I would be pissed. In this day and age of stats=big contracts you can see forwards ripping balls from team-mates hands.
Playing on teams whose wings are already flying up the court looking to break has allowed or maybe even forced Kidd to do more rebounding than a PG should have to do. And I applaud him for doing so.
He's a great PG- not worthy of being in the same sentence as Magic/Oscar but lumped in with some names like Stockton/Frazier/ Nash/ Isiah. When you get the second level PG's its usually all about who you saw play and personal perferences. Did you hate Stocktons chippiness and helmet hair ? Did Isiahs smile drive you batty ? Did Nash's team beat your team ? It's that sort of personal memories and recollections that makes debating these things so much fun and ensures that no one answer is more correct than another.
In saying all that -there is still only one Magic !

JasonJohnHorn
12-31-2010, 10:12 AM
The best ever? No. One of the best? Yes.

If you consider the Big O a PG (which some do), then he did everything Kidd did only better, and he could score with the best in the history of the league, not to mention all of his peers considered him among the best defensive players.

Magic could post a triple double as easily, and also score more in the process without bogging down the offense, but rather making it more versatile and harder to defend, and his post game was amazing.

and Stockton was a better shooter throughout his career, was the only point guard to post 1000+ assists in a season multiple times, and is the NBA career leader in steals, and even at the age of 40 he was still averaging more assists per-minute than any other player in the league.

Jason Kidd, until these last couple seasons, has always been a liability when it comes to shooting, as great a play-maker as he is, people often left him open because he simply wouldnt take shots, and as good a rebounder as he is, he was never as good as Magic or teh Big O. He is a top-nothc defensive PG, and ranks as high as any I've watched, outside maybe Gary Payton (who also has a case against Kidd as being a better PG).

I have been impressed with Kidd the last couple of seasons as he has finally become the shooter his teams have always needed him to be, but the bottom line is that while setting up plays well, defending well and rebounding well, his inability to shoot consistently allowed defences to the room to double team and fall behind on picks so as to catch him on the drive, and his time with the Mavs as a great shooter is not going to outweight the first 13 years of his career, and this year his shooting numbers have dipped again. I realize part of the reason his FG% has been low over the years is the fact that he takes a fair amount of 3s, but even his 3P% is unimpressive save his time with the Mavs. He never shot over 40% from behind the arc until his return to Dallas, and throughout the rest of his career he shot in the low 30's, and even dipped under 30% a couple times.

Kidds amazing, and easily one of the best at his position of his generation, and ranks among the best of all time, but his game has had some glaring holes in it that keep him from the top of the list.

Don of NY23
12-31-2010, 10:44 AM
Kidd is the best of his era, IMO but Stockton is the best pure point guard of all time.

WeBallin
12-31-2010, 10:47 AM
Yeah he can be mentioned along the best PG's Not to win a championship alongside other great PG'd w/out a ring?

JordansBulls
12-31-2010, 10:50 AM
After watching Jason Kidd at the age of 37 record yet another triple double, it make me think back and realize on how great of a player, and how dominant of a player. No one ran an offense like Jason Kidd, he revolutionized defense from the PG position being able to guard any type of guard and most forwards. I think all-around PGs, Jason Kidd could be considered the best ever.

Naw. He doesn't have any records and he lacks the awards to even be in the running.

BKLYNNYRNYKNYY
12-31-2010, 11:08 AM
Hes's Prob 3rd All Time

Havoc Wreaker
12-31-2010, 11:09 AM
Jason Kidd :love: Favorite player ever. If only he could shoot worth a damn.

NYKalltheway
12-31-2010, 11:23 AM
Stockton was way better, not to mention a few others who were on par or better. But he could have a case as a Top 7 PG of all time which is still great.

raptor fan
12-31-2010, 11:25 AM
no way. john stockton and magic johnson alone were much better than kidd.

Hawkeye15
12-31-2010, 12:27 PM
Kidd's jumper has been nice for a while now and he's even extended out to become a great 3 point shooter.


One can only wonder how Kidd's career would have played out if he had a dominant big like Karl Malone. Too bad we never saw that trade to San Antonio.

no doubt. But he will never be confused with a great shooter over his career like Nash is.

Hawkeye15
12-31-2010, 12:32 PM
I think Stockton is the best PG of all time
I think Magic Johnson is the best player to ever play the PG position

Those two are 1A AND 1B


Kidd rounds out the top 5 somewhere.

great perspective.

jim51990
12-31-2010, 12:40 PM
no but he may very well be second best and i dont wanna make this thread about him but am i the only one that sees rondo as the next j-kidd

Hawkeye15
12-31-2010, 01:04 PM
no but he may very well be second best and i dont wanna make this thread about him but am i the only one that sees rondo as the next j-kidd

that comparison has been brought up before. Unfortunately for Kidd, he never got the opportunity to play with great players, so Rondo may actually pass him before his career is over. But its a valid comparison. Rondo needs to improve his jumper over time, he will need it to play well into his 30's when his speed slows down a bit.

llemon
12-31-2010, 01:04 PM
I have to add something here as I watched Kidd for a multitude of seasons as a Net.

Now, I have to admit I didn't follow Kidd to closely when he was oruginally with Mavs, or when he was with the Suns.

But from my view as a Net fan, Kidd's 'lockdown defense' is a myth.

As a Net, Kidd loved to back off his man and drift into the middle. I still remember Chucky Atkins raining threes on the Nets in Kidd's first season in New Jersey because Kidd refused to guard him.

Quick PGs gave (and now REALLY give) Kidd lots of trouble. In the '03 Finals, Tony Parker was tearing him a new one, so much so that Scott had to put Kittles on Parker, and Kittles forced Parker to the bench (unfortunately, Nets had no one quick enough to guard Speedy Claxton).

Kidd's defense on PGs just got worse after his '04 knee surgery.

However, Kidd is an excellent defender of most SGs.

PhillyFaninLA
12-31-2010, 01:05 PM
Guys that are unquestionably better than Kidd IMO

M. Johnson, O. Robertson, I. Thomas, J. Stockton, B. Cousy, W. Frazier

I may put Nash and Mo Cheeks ahead of Kidd as well. Not sure if Kidd is even next on my list but not the best ever and not top 5, maybe not top 10 all time. With that said Kidd would get my HOF vote if I had one.

Raph12
12-31-2010, 01:07 PM
No chance

knicks4life33
12-31-2010, 01:09 PM
dude stockton is better then kidd close this thread cause its soemthing we all know lol

Hawkeye15
12-31-2010, 01:09 PM
I have to add something here as I watched Kidd for a multitude of seasons as a Net.

Now, I have to admit I didn't follow Kidd to closely when he was oruginally with Mavs, or when he was with the Suns.

But from my view as a Net fan, Kidd's 'lockdown defense' is a myth.

As a Net, Kidd loved to back off his man and drift into the middle. I still remember Chucky Atkins raining threes on the Nets in Kidd's first season in New Jersey because Kidd refused to guard him.

Quick PGs gave (and now REALLY give) Kidd lots of trouble. In the '03 Finals, Tony Parker was tearing him a new one, so much so that Scott had to put Kittles on Parker, and Kittles forced Parker to the bench (unfortunately, Nets had no one quick enough to guard Speedy Claxton).

Kidd's defense on PGs just got worse after his '04 knee surgery.

However, Kidd is an excellent defender of most SGs.

I never got the "lockdown" defender tag either. He was an exceptional team defender, capable of guarding both backcourt positions, which made him unique. But I indeed remember watching cat quick guards kill him (though don't they kill most??)

llemon
12-31-2010, 01:11 PM
Guys that are unquestionably better than Kidd IMO

M. Johnson, O. Robertson, I. Thomas, J. Stockton, B. Cousy, W. Frazier

I may put Nash and Mo Cheeks ahead of Kidd as well. Not sure if Kidd is even next on my list but not the best ever and not top 5, maybe not top 10 all time. With that said Kidd would get my HOF vote if I had one.

I was considering Mo Cheeks myself. He had the talent in Philly, but he was the man that ran that circus.

Efficient shooter, a real lockdown defender, incredibly quick hands and a excellent distributor.

dacreator101
12-31-2010, 01:16 PM
nash over kidd sorry...kidd is a legit top 10 pg ever to play..but i still put nash over him...and yes magic is the best to ever play pg....if lebron was to move over to pg he would own that spot too..lol

llemon
12-31-2010, 01:19 PM
Anyone remember Jordan's stint at PG for the Bulls early in his career?

THE MTL
12-31-2010, 01:26 PM
Its easily Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, & John Stockton above Kidd. Jason Kidd also needs a ring to solidfy his greatness, but leading the Nets to two consecutive Finals appearances against a Lakers/Spurs dynasty is a feat in itself.

knicks4life33
12-31-2010, 01:29 PM
how does everyone say kidd is great defender cause i remeber tony parker schooling him in the finals just taking it down the lane

tangent12
12-31-2010, 01:31 PM
A firm, no.

awmathewsjr
12-31-2010, 01:39 PM
He's ONE of the best ever but certainly not THE BEST or even top 3.

JJ_JKidd
12-31-2010, 01:40 PM
Not the best ever, but 'one of the best' to ever play PG. Gold medalist, assist and triple double all time rank, all star, all defense, etc.

And to put Nash above him is just plain stupid... Tell me, what did Nash accomplish with his All-Star line up in the past and what did Kidd do with the likes of KMart, Kittles, VAn Horn and their fat center Todd Macullough?! Oh wait, he just took them to the finals,,, TWICE!

obcha22
12-31-2010, 01:45 PM
YRS PPG RPG APG
M. Johnson 13 19.5/ 7.2 /11.2
O. Robertson 14 25.7 /7.5 / 9.5
I. Thomas 13 19.2/ 3.6/ 9.3
J. Stockton 19 13.1/ 2.7/ 10.5

B. Cousy 14 18.4/ 5.2/ 7.5
W. Frazier 13 18.9 /5.9/ 6.1

J. Kidd 13 14.5/ 6.7/ 9.2

T. Archibald 13/ 18.8 /2.3
S. Nash 11 14.0/ 2.9/ 7.6
G. Payton 17 16.3 /3.9/ 6.7


Kid is up there but not close to the top 4. But no ring, so its tough to call him the best

Hawkeye15
12-31-2010, 01:46 PM
Not the best ever, but 'one of the best' to ever play PG. Gold medalist, assist and triple double all time rank, all star, all defense, etc.

And to put Nash above him is just plain stupid... Tell me, what did Nash accomplish with his All-Star line up in the past and what did Kidd do with the likes of KMart, Kittles, VAn Horn and their fat center Todd Macullough?! Oh wait, he just took them to the finals,,, TWICE!

Nash has 2 MVP's.

And the east in the early 2000's was more of a, "who sucks the least", playoff run.

While I am not disagreeing with you necessarily, those who say Nash is better aren't off their rocker. Its just a matter of opinion (shout out to llemon!)

PhillyFaninLA
12-31-2010, 01:54 PM
Not the best ever, but 'one of the best' to ever play PG. Gold medalist, assist and triple double all time rank, all star, all defense, etc.

And to put Nash above him is just plain stupid... Tell me, what did Nash accomplish with his All-Star line up in the past and what did Kidd do with the likes of KMart, Kittles, VAn Horn and their fat center Todd Macullough?! Oh wait, he just took them to the finals,,, TWICE!


I get your point completely because Kidd had to go through teams as good as the Mavs, Houston, Spurs, and Lakers to make the finals so its a truly fair point you made.

KingOf215
12-31-2010, 02:05 PM
As far as PGs I've watched in my lifetime..


Magic > Stockton > Kidd > Nash > Payton

thekmp211
12-31-2010, 05:33 PM
lets say top 5 for now. in his prime he was the best point guard in the league, but he doesn't have the stats, rings or legacy to match up with the magics and stocktons of the world.

SteveNash
12-31-2010, 05:41 PM
how does everyone say kidd is great defender cause i remeber tony parker schooling him in the finals just taking it down the lane

You remember wrong because Parker got absolutely killed by Kidd in the Finals. Like he got killed by Billups in the other Final series. Which is another reason why people using the rings argument while talking about Tony Parker makes little sense since he only played well going up against Boobie Gibson.

As for Kidd, he'll never be considered the best PG ever, not enough winning. Not worth the hassle. What he does at 37 means little.

sunsfan88
12-31-2010, 06:11 PM
Not the best ever, but 'one of the best' to ever play PG. Gold medalist, assist and triple double all time rank, all star, all defense, etc.

And to put Nash above him is just plain stupid... Tell me, what did Nash accomplish with his All-Star line up in the past and what did Kidd do with the likes of KMart, Kittles, VAn Horn and their fat center Todd Macullough?! Oh wait, he just took them to the finals,,, TWICE!

2 MVPs.

loki34
12-31-2010, 06:22 PM
nash>kidd

llemon
12-31-2010, 06:23 PM
You remember wrong because Parker got absolutely killed by Kidd in the Finals. Like he got killed by Billups in the other Final series. Which is another reason why people using the rings argument while talking about Tony Parker makes little sense since he only played well going up against Boobie Gibson.

As for Kidd, he'll never be considered the best PG ever, not enough winning. Not worth the hassle. What he does at 37 means little.

No, you remember wrong. Parker TORCHED Kidd in the Finals. Scott had to have Kittles guard Parker.

Lakerfan8032
12-31-2010, 06:33 PM
Wow! I can't believe any one could even consider that. Kidd is a great player but he will never be considered the best ever point guard. Magic definitely has that locked up and has a firm hold of it. I think a player needs to at least win one championship to be called best ever at a position and Magic is up five in that department. The only thing Kidd is better at is defense. Magic was not the strongest individual defender but luckily for him he played in the 80's and before teams became more sophisticated with the advanced scouting and resources available.

BkOriginalOne
12-31-2010, 06:47 PM
No.

JJ_JKidd
12-31-2010, 07:27 PM
Nash has 2 MVP's.

And the east in the early 2000's was more of a, "who sucks the least", playoff run.

While I am not disagreeing with you necessarily, those who say Nash is better aren't off their rocker. Its just a matter of opinion (shout out to llemon!)

Ok, but do you agree with me that the Nets team I was referring to was just average in terms of talent when compared to other East teams? Boston had Pierce and Walker, Pacers had Reggie, JO, Artest.


I get your point completely because Kidd had to go through teams as good as the Mavs, Houston, Spurs, and Lakers to make the finals so its a truly fair point you made.

The caliber of Nash teammates cancels out the point you made in your argument.




2 MVPs.

abe_froman
12-31-2010, 07:32 PM
ummm a very weak and wrong case maybe...

llemon
12-31-2010, 07:48 PM
Ok, but do you agree with me that the Nets team I was referring to was just average in terms of talent when compared to other East teams? Boston had Pierce and Walker, Pacers had Reggie, JO, Artest.

Kidd, Kenyon & Kittles just meshed. Meshed much better than Pierce, 'Toine and Kenny A. Meshed much better than Miller, JON (who Kenyon completely shut down) and Artest.

Nets were the best team in the East

blacknell
12-31-2010, 07:52 PM
he is top 3 all time

magic
kidd
big O

blacknell
12-31-2010, 07:52 PM
If penny didn't get hurt i think he would have been the best all time

llemon
12-31-2010, 08:08 PM
If penny didn't get hurt i think he would have been the best all time

Penny didn't even want to be a PG.

ManOnFire
12-31-2010, 08:26 PM
Nope.

Hawkeye15
12-31-2010, 08:26 PM
Ok, but do you agree with me that the Nets team I was referring to was just average in terms of talent when compared to other East teams? Boston had Pierce and Walker, Pacers had Reggie, JO, Artest.


sure. There were a bunch of so so teams fighting it out in the east. Nash's Suns were better than any team the Nets had to face back then most likely, or at the very least they had MUCH tougher competition.

I am not saying Kidd is better, or that Nash is better. But comparing their team success (ie, the finals run by the Nets) has to also factor in the level of competition they faced. The Nets were first round knockout material in the mid 2000's west playoffs.

blacknell
12-31-2010, 08:34 PM
sure. There were a bunch of so so teams fighting it out in the east. Nash's Suns were better than any team the Nets had to face back then most likely, or at the very least they had MUCH tougher competition.

I am not saying Kidd is better, or that Nash is better. But comparing their team success (ie, the finals run by the Nets) has to also factor in the level of competition they faced. The Nets were first round knockout material in the mid 2000's west playoffs.

didn't the nets go to back to back finals?

blacknell
12-31-2010, 08:35 PM
Penny didn't even want to be a PG.

never heard that.. especially since he wanted to be like magic johnson when he was younger

obcha22
12-31-2010, 08:43 PM
lets say top 5 for now. in his prime he was the best point guard in the league, but he doesn't have the stats, rings or legacy to match up with the magics and stocktons of the world.

I agree with top 5. But the thing that is amazing to me is how no one gives Isaiah or Robertson props for their play. Magic and stockton are all people talk about. But Magic , Robertson and Isaiah are my top 3 with Stockton a close 4 and then Kidd. I put the first three in the top three because of their drive to win and ability to be nasty. Stockton and Kidd never won a title and that unfortunately matters.

llemon
12-31-2010, 08:45 PM
never heard that.. especially since he wanted to be like magic johnson when he was younger

I read about it. About 3-4 years into his NBA career, he said he preferred the SG position.

llemon
12-31-2010, 08:47 PM
didn't the nets go to back to back finals?

You don't know?

Mile High Champ
12-31-2010, 08:51 PM
Stockton, Magic, Kevin Johnson, Oscar Robertson and isiah Thomas are all better than Kidd.

blacknell
12-31-2010, 08:51 PM
remember when him and jim jackson destroyed the mavs young team? that squad could have done bigs things

OaklandsFinest
12-31-2010, 08:56 PM
Jason Kidd ain't even the best PG from our city let alone of all time.... I think Gary was a better pg than Kidd, and The Hook was better than both of them... Jason Kidd is a top 5-10 pg all time but I have never been so let down with so many triple doubles ever.. How many 10, 11, 10 lines can you have and be considered AMAZING. Lebron will put up 30, 9, 8 and to me thats way more impressive than a 10,11,10 line.

1. Magic
2. Oscar
3. Nash
4. Stockton
5. Gary Payton
6. Pistol Pete
7. Isiaha Thomas
8. Jason Kidd
9. Bob Cousy
10. Stephon Marbury - 19 - 7 career numbers. before he went crazy one of the best offensive guard...

Bruno
12-31-2010, 09:11 PM
I don't think you can successfully argue Kidd any higher than 4th all-time.
Magic, Oscar, and Stockton all shared equal or greater team success, as well as better career statistics/ more personal accolades.

NJBASEBALL22
12-31-2010, 09:48 PM
You can't make a good argument for Kidd being #1 but he has a case for top 5 (even top 3 when considering true point guards).

If you take out the likes of combo guards (Big O and West- back in these days, there was no difference in PG and SG. They only had guards)

1. Magic
2. Isiah
3. Stockton
4. Payton
5. Kidd
6. Frazier
7. Cousy
8. Nash
9. Cheeks

This is off the top of my head but that would probably be my list.

Hawkeye15
12-31-2010, 09:52 PM
didn't the nets go to back to back finals?

point stands. The east was paper thin. Nash's Suns in his MVP years would have probably beat up on the Nets from the early 2000's. Its not a slight at Kidd per say, its a slight at how bad the east was, and shows how good the west was.

blastmasta26
12-31-2010, 10:11 PM
Jason Kidd ain't even the best PG from our city let alone of all time.... I think Gary was a better pg than Kidd, and The Hook was better than both of them... Jason Kidd is a top 5-10 pg all time but I have never been so let down with so many triple doubles ever.. How many 10, 11, 10 lines can you have and be considered AMAZING. Lebron will put up 30, 9, 8 and to me thats way more impressive than a 10,11,10 line.

1. Magic
2. Oscar
3. Nash
4. Stockton
5. Gary Payton
6. Pistol Pete
7. Isiaha Thomas
8. Jason Kidd
9. Bob Cousy
10. Stephon Marbury - 19 - 7 career numbers. before he went crazy one of the best offensive guard...

:speechless:

dodie53
12-31-2010, 10:25 PM
magic is the best PG, ever.

DwayneMVPwade
12-31-2010, 10:36 PM
I dont think J kidd is even top 5 list of top pg

Chronz
01-01-2011, 12:44 AM
how does everyone say kidd is great defender cause i remeber tony parker schooling him in the finals just taking it down the lane

Uhh Parker sucked that series

And people say that about him because of his defensive impact on his teams defense, not any single player.

llemon
01-01-2011, 12:51 AM
Uhh Parker sucked that series

And people say that about him because of his defensive impact on his teams defense, not any single player.

Parker sucked once Kittles started guarding Parker.

celtsballa21
01-01-2011, 12:53 AM
Not top 5, and once Rondo, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, and John Wall are done, he won't even be close.

blacknell
01-01-2011, 02:10 PM
why is everone in here putting stockton over Thomas? Thomas was way better than Stockton. Your talking about a guy who averaged almost a double-double his whole carrer 19.2 points per game and 9.3 assists a game.Stockton was better as a passer because he played with Karl Malone who was a way better scoring option than Dennis Rodman, Bill Lambier and James Edwards. Also Thomas has rings and went through MJ to get them

BklynKnicks3
01-01-2011, 02:12 PM
best no, top 3 Yes

Chronz
01-01-2011, 02:23 PM
Parker sucked once Kittles started guarding Parker.
Im putting you on my block list :mad:

fadedmario
01-01-2011, 02:33 PM
Magic Johnson
Isiah Thomas
John Stockton

in that order

llemon
01-01-2011, 03:12 PM
Im putting you on my block list :mad:

Oh, the shame.

Meaze_Gibson
01-01-2011, 03:23 PM
Happy New Years fellas..But yeah Kidd is tied with payton right around 5 or 6th..Despite ranking though there won't be many players like him to come and play this game. Dude is definition of hard work and eventually be the 3rd on all-time list of 3 pointers. Pretty good for a dude who came in with no J...He's exponentially a better player and pg tho to some of the players named.

zambo4president
01-01-2011, 03:25 PM
He's not the greatest, but he's Top 7 easily.

jkcronyn
01-01-2011, 03:27 PM
nah he needs titles and mvps

KnicksorBust
01-01-2011, 03:29 PM
You can't be the best (fill in the blank) ever without a ring.

Mc Lovin
01-01-2011, 03:35 PM
One could be made, but you can't dislodge Magic or Stockton from the top two spots.

I could put Kidd ahead of Stockton. Look at the triple doubles this guy has? Stockton was a great passer but so is Jason Kidd and Kidd is a better defender and rebounder.

FOBolous
01-01-2011, 03:39 PM
Kidd get props for this longevity but at not point during his career did his clearly dominate his position. he's good but there was always a PG out there that's better at every point of his career. kinda like Kobe you know? kobe is good but no matter how good he is, there were always player out there that's arguably better. during the early part of his career, it was tmac. now it's lebron.

Byronicle
01-01-2011, 03:51 PM
he has great vision but i dunno his FG% over the years are not impressive.

HabsFan87
01-01-2011, 03:52 PM
Steve Nash by a long shot. It's not to often a guy can lead by example day in and day out like he does.

SpeeMN
01-01-2011, 03:55 PM
Magic, Stockton, Oscar Robertson, Isiah Thomas those 4 are Clear Cut over him.

Bob Cousy, Maravich, Payton, Nash are players he has to face to get a positioning on the top 10 where he belongs for sure.

This says it all. Jason Kidd is fighting Gary Payton and Steve Nash as the 5th best Ever.

1-Magic
2-Stockton
3-Oscar
4-Isiah
5-Payton
6-Kidd
7-Nash

SpeeMN
01-01-2011, 04:03 PM
Career Averages-

Stockton- 51.5%fg 38.4%3pt 13.1pts 10.5ast 2.7reb 2.2stl 2.8to 31.8 minutes/game 1504GP

Kidd- 40.2%fg 34.9%3pt 13.5pts 9.2ast 6.6reb 2.0stl 3.1to 37.0 minutes/game 1218GP

Stockton beats Kidd in everything but rebounds...

godolphins
01-01-2011, 04:30 PM
nope.
This

kurivaimu
01-01-2011, 04:38 PM
Magic, Nash, Isiah are better, so No

Sly Guy
01-01-2011, 05:30 PM
nope.
Magic, Stockton, Oscar Robertson (25.7ppg 9.5apg 7.5rpg career!)....all better than kidd.

tgddg1
01-01-2011, 05:44 PM
It would be hard to put him the top 10 all time. Kidd is a very good player who's only extraordinary accomplishment is longevity. Right now he is not even in top five of current point guards.

hotpotato1092
01-01-2011, 05:50 PM
I'll take Magic, Stockton, Isiah and Oscar over Kidd.

netsgiantsyanks
01-01-2011, 05:56 PM
what happened to magic, stockton, nash?

nash? steve nash is not a better pg than jason kidd. close, but in the end, jason kidd is the better pg.

OaklandsFinest
01-01-2011, 06:21 PM
lol says the guy in the MF Doom mask....

AddiX
01-01-2011, 08:56 PM
I put Kidd up there, it's easy to dismiss him because he's not flashy, doesn't have insane stats.

One of the best leaders in the game, maybe ever.

First job of a PG is to run the team, you can't do it better than him. And that's on both sides of the court. Watch a guy like Nash, he's the first player on defense to break down every time, youll never see that with Kidd. He was one of the best defenders at his position.

2nd job is to make your teammates better. Kidd got Martin and Jefferson paid, and every player wants to be on Kidds team.

And to add to that he grabs a ton of boards, and he's not one of the smaller weaker PG's who get backed down play after play.

The guy is proven, def among the top PG's.

BSF101
01-01-2011, 09:05 PM
He's good, but Rondos better, and after he comes back he'll probably be even more great.

NJBASEBALL22
01-01-2011, 09:17 PM
He's good, but Rondos better, and after he comes back he'll probably be even more great.

Career-wise Kidd kills Rondo- if that was the argument you were making. Anything else really doesn't apply. Of course a 24 year old athletic freak entering his prime that plays with 4 hall of famers is better than a 37 point guard that is nearly done. This is like saying Tony Parker is better than Magic Johnson right now.

Bos_Sports4Life
01-01-2011, 10:19 PM
I only saw the first/last pg, but did anyone mention oscar?

Mvp
9x 1st team
6x led league in assists
top 3 in points 7x
8 times top 3 in per
12 straight all star games


He finnished his career with a line of 25.7 pts, 9.5 assists, 7.5 boards, and his prime was quite a bit better, and people are saying kidd/nash are better? give the guy some respect...

camador22
01-01-2011, 10:30 PM
Magic and the Big O are miles better the Kidd. Isiah is also clearly better and then you have to put him slightly under Stockton and Nash.

saucy1
01-01-2011, 10:35 PM
magic to me is still the greatest player ever jason kidd is the second best pg ive seen but im 33

saucy1
01-01-2011, 10:38 PM
jason kidd is the only player ive ever seen who can dominate a game without stats he was amazing when he was younger

SportsAndrew25
01-01-2011, 10:46 PM
No. It is Magic Johnson.

SportsAndrew25
01-01-2011, 10:48 PM
Steve Nash is great too.

CaptainHay
01-01-2011, 11:01 PM
Guys, you are making too much of a case that Magic is the best ever? In his time, there wasn't many great players, and not much other Point Guards that were even as good as the present Jameer Nelson. Kidd competes with younger, quicker, better offensive PGs now like Paul, Williams, Parker, Westbrook, Yet he still does very well. Is Magic the best of all time atm? Yeah, but Kidd has about 3-4 more years, if he can continue doing well and get 1-2 rings in the meantime? He will be #1

Top 5 PGs of all time:

1. Magic Johnson
2. Jason Kidd
3. J.Stockton
4. Oscar Robertson
5. Isaih Thomas

MTar786
01-01-2011, 11:07 PM
whoever thinks nash ranks higher than kidd all time needs to stop doing drugs

CaptainHay
01-01-2011, 11:11 PM
whoever thinks nash ranks higher than kidd all time needs to stop doing drugs

I agree. Career wise Kidd is much better. Kidd is a overall get-it-done-WIN player, Nash just wants to finish with double-doubles no matter what his team does.

Kidd>Nash

ck despo
01-01-2011, 11:32 PM
i'm not sure if anyone has made this point because I honestly didn't feel like reading hundreds of posts going back and forth about stockton/nash/kidd lol. but i've watched numerous games where kidd went scoreless but still dominated the game. he's the only player i've ever seen that could clearly dominate a game and be the flat out best player on the floor without scoring a single point. i've got him at number 2 behind magic.

AddiX
01-01-2011, 11:33 PM
I would never consider putting a player in the top 5 in any position playing the kind of defense Nash does.

Chronz
01-02-2011, 01:07 AM
PS Since its a hot topic, Kidd is a notorious stat padder

el_primo_nano
01-02-2011, 07:14 PM
Hell no. Magic was and will be the best ever.. Kidd is great, but Magic passed, scored, rebounded. He did it all

JJ_JKidd
01-02-2011, 10:47 PM
PS Since its a hot topic, Kidd is a notorious stat padder

Do you even know how many effen times Kidd was taken out of the game with the game wrapped up and he was a point, assist or rebound away from a triple double? Christ before you make such statements do your research first, SON! :facepalm:

llemon
01-02-2011, 10:59 PM
Do you even know how many effen times Kidd was taken out of the game with the game wrapped up and he was a point, assist or rebound away from a triple double? Christ before you make such statements do your research first, SON! :facepalm:

When I watched him as a Net, there were many, many times Kidd stayed on the court longer than he should have in order to get the triple-double.

llemon
01-02-2011, 11:01 PM
I would never consider putting a player in the top 5 in any position playing the kind of defense Nash does.

So Magic isn't in your top 5 PGs either?

Chronz
01-02-2011, 11:06 PM
Do you even know how many effen times Kidd was taken out of the game with the game wrapped up and he was a point, assist or rebound away from a triple double? Christ before you make such statements do your research first, SON! :facepalm:
Hmmm, me not doing research? Yea thats believable

Chronz
01-02-2011, 11:09 PM
When I watched him as a Net, there were many, many times Kidd stayed on the court longer than he should have in order to get the triple-double.
Dont forget how Collins and RJ would box their man out with the intent of allowing Kidd to grab the rebound.

It really doesnt change anything about him as a player but people think stat padding only happens to corrupt individuals.

llemon
01-02-2011, 11:11 PM
Dont forget how Collins and RJ would box their man out with the intent of allowing Kidd to grab the rebound.

It really doesnt change anything about him as a player but people think stat padding only happens to corrupt individuals.

Not sure 'intent' is the proper word to use there.

IamKaiserSoze
01-02-2011, 11:17 PM
sure a case can be made. he probably barely makes my top 5...but at least he is in the conversation. he is one of the best ever.

llemon
01-02-2011, 11:21 PM
sure a case can be made. he probably barely makes my top 5...but at least he is in the conversation. he is one of the best ever.

Undoubtedly. And it has nothing to do with stats.

It has everything to do with watching him play.

Chronz
01-02-2011, 11:25 PM
Not sure 'intent' is the proper word to use there.

What do you mean?

llemon
01-02-2011, 11:28 PM
What do you mean?

I don't think Collins or RJ boxed out with the intent that Kidd would get the rebound.

JJ_JKidd
01-02-2011, 11:35 PM
Hmmm, me not doing research? Yea thats believable

Ill do my research you'll see...


Dont forget how Collins and RJ would box their man out with the intent of allowing Kidd to grab the rebound.

It really doesnt change anything about him as a player but people think stat padding only happens to corrupt individuals.

Video evidence please? :facepalm:

ManningToTyree
01-02-2011, 11:35 PM
no. top ten. maybe

HallofFameKidd
01-02-2011, 11:38 PM
whoever thinks nash ranks higher than kidd all time needs to stop doing drugs

:clap:

Chronz
01-02-2011, 11:57 PM
I don't think Collins or RJ boxed out with the intent that Kidd would get the rebound.
No seriously thats what they said

llemon
01-03-2011, 01:01 AM
No seriously thats what they said

First of all, that was Collins talent, boxing out.

And having been a Net fan for 40 years and watching the games, that is just ridiculous.

Kidd didn't need very much help rebounding the ball.

Kidd's rebounding always amazed me, as he was not crashing the boards, but just had a feel for how the ball was going to come off the rim.

I'd estimate that Kidd's feet didn't leave the floor on 60% of the rebounds he got.

JJ_JKidd
01-03-2011, 06:39 AM
PS Since its a hot topic, Kidd is a notorious stat padder

This now:


2006-2007 season


“He’s one of the top three players in the league,” said Jason Kidd, who just missed his 77th career triple-double with 12 points, nine rebounds and nine assists. “When he gets going, he’s very unselfish. You see that when Haslem had 28 points. They become a very dangerous team when he finds the open guy.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2006111017&prov=ap


Kidd scored a season-high 25 points and added 11 assists and eight rebounds to lead the Nets to a 100-87 victory over the Milwaukee Bucks on Wednesday night. It was Kidd who stole the show in nearly picking up his 78th career triple-double, which would have tied him third in NBA history with Wilt Chamberlain.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2006111517&prov=ap


Kidd was smiling just as wide despite missing his 78th career triple-double by one point and one rebound. It would have tied him with Wilt Chamberlain for third best overall.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2006120217&prov=ap




PS- if he's a stat padder, he obviously would have more triple doubles. Plenty of more where that came from btw. :)

GreatMustachio1
01-03-2011, 09:38 AM
I seriously hope Kidd as the greatest PG ever is a joke. Thats the way I took this. He could possibly crack the top 10

kurivaimu
01-03-2011, 11:06 AM
I agree. Career wise Kidd is much better. Kidd is a overall get-it-done-WIN player, Nash just wants to finish with double-doubles no matter what his team does.

Kidd>Nash


And it just happens to be that Nash is a two time MVP..

ewing
01-03-2011, 11:38 AM
I agree. Career wise Kidd is much better. Kidd is a overall get-it-done-WIN player, Nash just wants to finish with double-doubles no matter what his team does.

Kidd>Nash


I'm pretty sure Nash cares about winning basketball games but J Kidd had a better career. As for the orginal question- No, a case cant be made b/c Magic Johnson is the greatest PG ever

S-Dot
01-03-2011, 12:26 PM
A case can be made for sure...not sure if you'll win it though

llemon
01-03-2011, 01:04 PM
This now:


2006-2007 season


“He’s one of the top three players in the league,” said Jason Kidd, who just missed his 77th career triple-double with 12 points, nine rebounds and nine assists. “When he gets going, he’s very unselfish. You see that when Haslem had 28 points. They become a very dangerous team when he finds the open guy.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2006111017&prov=ap


Kidd scored a season-high 25 points and added 11 assists and eight rebounds to lead the Nets to a 100-87 victory over the Milwaukee Bucks on Wednesday night. It was Kidd who stole the show in nearly picking up his 78th career triple-double, which would have tied him third in NBA history with Wilt Chamberlain.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2006111517&prov=ap


Kidd was smiling just as wide despite missing his 78th career triple-double by one point and one rebound. It would have tied him with Wilt Chamberlain for third best overall.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2006120217&prov=ap




PS- if he's a stat padder, he obviously would have more triple doubles. Plenty of more where that came from btw. :)

What the hell does that prove?

You think EVERYTIME he got close to a triple-double, he was going to get one?

And none of those statements says whether Kid was on the court when the buzzer sounded.

JJ_JKidd
01-03-2011, 09:58 PM
What the hell does that prove?

You think EVERYTIME he got close to a triple-double, he was going to get one?

And none of those statements says whether Kid was on the court when the buzzer sounded.

That he was NOT INTENTIONALLY WORKING TO GET ONE or PAD HIS STATS, so to speak.

gattaca
01-03-2011, 10:07 PM
He's better than Stockton, but not Magic.

Stockton is a better point guard. Kidd had cooler passes and could/can rebound, but I don't have Kidd better than Stockton

gattaca
01-03-2011, 10:12 PM
He's good, but Rondos better, and after he comes back he'll probably be even more great.

LOL. Rondo plays with 3 all stars. If Jason Kidd played with those guys...

It's wayyyyy too early in Rondo's career to compare him to Kidd.

llemon
01-03-2011, 10:38 PM
That he was NOT INTENTIONALLY WORKING TO GET ONE or PAD HIS STATS, so to speak.

And how does your very biased post prove that?

JJ_JKidd
01-04-2011, 02:24 AM
And how does your very biased post prove that?

Some of the games were not close which means that PROBABLY he did not play the remaining minutes of the game which could have gave him a triple double.

sargon21
01-04-2011, 02:26 AM
the answer is no, why is this still a thread?

Doogolas
01-04-2011, 02:26 AM
No, he's not the GPGOAT. But he's up there.

effen5
01-04-2011, 02:28 AM
Id take Stockton over Kidd all day

DoJoTheSlasher
01-04-2011, 03:10 AM
Alot of Kidd haters here, I guess because he plays for Dallas?

Anyways Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson (if you put him as a PG) and John Stockton are the only definite ones ahead of him. Bob Cousy, Isaiah Thomas, Walt Frazier and Gary Payton are with Kidd in the next top PG of all time. I would put him anywhere from 4th to 7th all time.

Chronz
01-04-2011, 04:13 AM
This now:


2006-2007 season


“He’s one of the top three players in the league,” said Jason Kidd, who just missed his 77th career triple-double with 12 points, nine rebounds and nine assists. “When he gets going, he’s very unselfish. You see that when Haslem had 28 points. They become a very dangerous team when he finds the open guy.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2006111017&prov=ap


Kidd scored a season-high 25 points and added 11 assists and eight rebounds to lead the Nets to a 100-87 victory over the Milwaukee Bucks on Wednesday night. It was Kidd who stole the show in nearly picking up his 78th career triple-double, which would have tied him third in NBA history with Wilt Chamberlain.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2006111517&prov=ap


Kidd was smiling just as wide despite missing his 78th career triple-double by one point and one rebound. It would have tied him with Wilt Chamberlain for third best overall.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2006120217&prov=ap




PS- if he's a stat padder, he obviously would have more triple doubles. Plenty of more where that came from btw. :)
This doesnt disprove anything, Kidds stat padding became more evident in his later days BTW. Show me where I said Kidd played for stats every game of his career then youll have a GREAT point.


First of all, that was Collins talent, boxing out.
Where did I ever deny that?


And having been a Net fan for 40 years and watching the games, that is just ridiculous.

You only need to have been watching the Nets for the last decade here. And dont tell me, RJ said it with his own words in an interview. Something to the effect of, we all know where he is on the record books, if theres a rebound between us, Ill let him grab it. This isnt to say hes not a great rebounder, look at Rodman, hes the greatest rebounder of all time and even he padded his rebounding stats. Also Im going on what I saw, there was a time (after the serious decline) when it looked like Kidd was trying to retain his status by racking up triple doubles.


Kidd didn't need very much help rebounding the ball.
Never said he did


Kidd's rebounding always amazed me, as he was not crashing the boards, but just had a feel for how the ball was going to come off the rim.

I'd estimate that Kidd's feet didn't leave the floor on 60% of the rebounds he got.

Agreed

JJ_JKidd
01-04-2011, 05:30 AM
PS Since its a hot topic, Kidd is a notorious stat padder


How do you define notoriety then? What do you exactly mean when you said the above quoted text? That MAYBE 1/2 of Kidd's triple doubles were padded?