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View Full Version : The Best Offensive Team Ever vs The Best Defensive Team Ever



Dr. RPG
12-28-2010, 10:39 PM
Despite me being a big sports fan, I don't really like posting the sports forum of the site. However, i thought of a good topic.

People say defense is more important then offense when it comes to champions. Yet, players, teams, franchises, all time greats, etc. Are more recognized and publicized, especially the all time greats like MJ, Magic, Kareem, Kobe, and others, because of their offense. In fact, players have won MVP awards with offense alone (Nash off the top of my head).

But, instead of having yet another debate about whether offense or defense is better, why not create your best offensive starting 5 of all time, and your best defensive 5 of all time, which includes the best offensive coach (phil jackson, Jerry Sloan, etc) vs the best defensive coach (Larry Brown, Jeff Van Gundy, etc). And once those 2 teams are put together, which team in your opinion would win? Here's an example.

All Time Offensive Team
PG: Magic Johnson
SG: Allen Iverson
SF: Larry Bird
PF: Charles Barkley
C: Shaq
Coach: Mike D'Antoni

All Time Defensive Team
PG: Gary Payton
SG: Michael Cooper
SF: Scottie Pippen
PF: Ben Wallace
C: Deke Motumbo
Coach: Gregg Popovich

Possibly not the best list but i try to list the players that were just strictly good on Offense and not so on defense and vice virsa. Same thing with Coaches. Mike D currently has the highest offensive rating for coaches and Gregg Popovich has the best defensive rating for coaches.

For offense, i chose Magic at PG because his offensive was well....i don't really need to explain do i? As for his defense...not so much. His defensive rating alone shows. He was not terrible or the worst by any means, but not exactly pretty enough to remember. Allen Iverson because of his juggernaut scoring and the fact that his defense is ugly (beside steals, but don't let that fool you). Common basketball knowledge there. Larry Bird, one of my favorite players of all time and the best SF of all time imo, great shooter, could create for others, his rebounds were great, but his defense was not great, just ok. Charles Barkley, great player, great offensively obviously, but probably due to his height at PF, he was not really capable of defending guys much taller then him. Center was a hard choice because almost all great offensive centers were really good defensive centers as well. So i chose what imo was the best offensive center that was the worst defensively compared to the other great centers....Shaq. His sheer size and muscle alone scared the crap out of most teams and his 4 championships showed. His defense...well it was actually pretty good, but not better then kareem's, D-Rob's, Hakeem's, Tim Duncan's, etc. So that's why :D. The offensive coach was simple for me.

Defense, PG was a hard one. But since Gary Payton is the only point guard ever to win defensive player of the year, i went with him (unless you count sidney moncrief, but i think he's a SG). Michael Cooper, he's a lakers legend due to his defense alone. He might be more known as a SF, im not sure. But i know he's just as capable as playing SG, and he barley averaged 9 points in his career, so i put him there. Scottie Pippen, sure he is a great shooter and known to have great ball handling, but any knowledgeable basketball fan knows him as the guy that could defend the any nba player to date the best out of anybody. Ben Wallace, even though most of his career with the Pistons he was a center, he can also play PF due to his height, and you don't win four defense awards (back to back two times) for just being good at one position. Deke Motumbo at center, honestly, you could put either Camby, Hakeem, or D-rob in their place at center, but my personal preference is Deke because of not only his stats and awards, but his presence on the court would make any team great on defense. Just look at the 2001 sixers for example. Coach for me was either JVG or Greg Pop, but for now, i got to go with the guy who has the rings.

This is just an example and my list of best offense and best defense teams. You can make your own if you feel mine does not suffice. And once that's done, put them in a best out of seven match up and tell us who would win? And why?

(congratz if you actually bothered reading my long OP :p)

JordansBulls
12-28-2010, 11:05 PM
Jordan was a better defender than Cooper. If you want to use someone else at SG use Havlicek.

Also some of the guys on the Defensive team can score as well in the lineup you have.

210Don
12-28-2010, 11:06 PM
lol at dantoni as the coach in a series the o team loses

BRADfromOZ
12-28-2010, 11:14 PM
You wouldn't pick a center that lead the NBA in total blocks and was 8th all time on total steals over Motumbo? I'd start Hakeem every time. Would also start Stockton over Payton as he has a higher SPG and does lead the NBA in total steals. Also you wouldn't have Jordan as the SG (2nd in the NBA in total steals and a decent SPG too. Also has almost a block per game). I'd also rather Josh Smith over Ben Wallace and Dr J over Pippen.

madiaz3
12-28-2010, 11:22 PM
You wouldn't pick a center that lead the NBA in total blocks and was 8th all time on total steals over Motumbo? I'd start Hakeem every time. Would also start Stockton over Payton as he has a higher SPG and does lead the NBA in total steals. Also you wouldn't have Jordan as the SG (2nd in the NBA in total steals and a decent SPG too. Also has almost a block per game). I'd also rather Josh Smith over Ben Wallace and Dr J over Pippen.

Hakeem was too good at offense to be considered for the defense mostly team.

Korman12
12-28-2010, 11:28 PM
You wouldn't pick a center that lead the NBA in total blocks and was 8th all time on total steals over Motumbo? I'd start Hakeem every time. Would also start Stockton over Payton as he has a higher SPG and does lead the NBA in total steals. Also you wouldn't have Jordan as the SG (2nd in the NBA in total steals and a decent SPG too. Also has almost a block per game). I'd also rather Josh Smith over Ben Wallace and Dr J over Pippen.

:confused:

KnicksorBust
12-28-2010, 11:31 PM
Mutombo/Big Ben frontcourt would give you nothing. Shaq would eat them up. The all offense team also has Larry Bird and Magic Johnson. Using those lineups the all-offense team wins easily.

mfb_lt1birdman
12-28-2010, 11:31 PM
Hakeem was too good at offense to be considered for the defense mostly team.

So what. He was a better defender. Regardless the best offense beats the best defense. There are certain people that just cannot be consistently stopped. MJ, Shaq, Kobe, Hakeem, Kareem, Lebron, etc, etc.

Korman12
12-28-2010, 11:46 PM
Using all-time greats kinda skews the argument. If you use modern lineups it looks a bit different. For example:

(Offense)

PG - Nash
SG - Kevin Martin
SF - Carmelo
PF - Lamarcus Aldridge
C - Brook Lopez

(Defense)

PG - Rondo
SG - Afflalo
SF - Battier
PF - Garnett
C - Dwight

blacknell
12-28-2010, 11:53 PM
offense
pg:Magic johnson
sg: michael jordan
sf: Larry Bird
pf:Karl Malone
C: Shaq

Defense
pg: GP
sg: Jordan
sf:Pippen
pf: Dennis Rodman
C: Dwight Howard

blacknell
12-28-2010, 11:55 PM
Current players though
offense
pg: Deron Williams
sg:Kobe
SF:Lebron
PF:Dirk
C: Howard

Defense
pg:Rondo
sg: Kobe
SF: Lebron
pf:Duncan
c: Howard

Dr. RPG
12-29-2010, 02:50 AM
Jordan was a better defender than Cooper. If you want to use someone else at SG use Havlicek.

Yeah but Jordan is a little....well good offensively :laugh2:

like i said my list was just an example, you can make your own as well

ClipperfanKevin
12-29-2010, 03:20 AM
Using all-time greats kinda skews the argument. If you use modern lineups it looks a bit different. For example:

(Offense)

PG - Nash
SG - Kevin Martin
SF - Carmelo
PF - Lamarcus Aldridge
C - Brook Lopez

(Defense)

PG - Rondo
SG - Afflalo
SF - Battier
PF - Garnett
C - Dwight

With this line up, defense would kill, but it really depends on what the line ups are.

thephoenixson28
12-29-2010, 03:51 AM
It depends on the lineup. With the teams you made,No doubt the offensive team wins.

BRADfromOZ
12-29-2010, 06:18 AM
Hakeem was too good at offense to be considered for the defense mostly team.
How does the all time blocks leader and the 8th ranked in total steals not get considered in a defensive team.

Also why wouldn't you want Dr J over Pippen or Smith over Wallace? Dr J has fewer total steals but the same average and almost a block more over Pippen. Also he was a better rebounded. Smith is on his way to easily passing Wallace in total blocks.

Heediot
12-29-2010, 07:45 AM
Fail

Best offensive team ever

PG Oscar Robertson
SG M. Jordan
SF Bird
PF K. Malone
C Wilt

Best D

PG Glove
SG Jordan
SF Pippen
PF Rodman
C Dream or Mt. Mutumbol

Heediot
12-29-2010, 07:48 AM
most of you guys creating squads in this thread are probably in your early to late teen!

I'd take the D team b/c most of the time the best defenders have good offensive games, wheras the best scorers do not necessarily have sufficient d.

koLohe2133
12-29-2010, 08:21 AM
Offense-

Pg- iverson
Sg- Jordan
Sf- lebron
Pf- Larry bird
C- shaq

Defense
Pg- payton
Sg- Jordan
Sf- Bowen
Pf- rodman
C- Hakeem the dream....

And honestly, I think this is pretty evenly matched...I know Jordan is on both lineups but he is the goat and he consistently was all league defense!

I really think it comes down to iverson vs payton....and if Ai goes off that team wins

MiamiWadeCounty
12-29-2010, 09:33 AM
Bruce Bowen - 5x All Defensive Team; 3x All Defensive Second Team

alencp3
12-29-2010, 09:58 AM
Shaq can not be stoped

Gram
12-29-2010, 11:56 AM
You wouldn't pick a center that lead the NBA in total blocks and was 8th all time on total steals over Motumbo? I'd start Hakeem every time. Would also start Stockton over Payton as he has a higher SPG and does lead the NBA in total steals. Also you wouldn't have Jordan as the SG (2nd in the NBA in total steals and a decent SPG too. Also has almost a block per game). I'd also rather Josh Smith over Ben Wallace and Dr J over Pippen.

:facepalm:

zachattach
12-29-2010, 01:11 PM
I think this would be a better question if you asked something like the 04 Pistons vs 80's Lakers.
The popular pick will be the Lakers, but that 04 Pistons team was one of the best defensive squads ever. Remember what they did to the Lakers team that year.

Point is try matching teams that were more known for defensive ability over there offense againt those known vis versa..

BRADfromOZ
12-29-2010, 04:07 PM
:facepalm:
So are you able to actually communicate your opinion or is a facepalm the extent of your opinion?

tredigs
12-29-2010, 04:27 PM
So are you able to actually communicate your opinion or is a facepalm the extent of your opinion?

Do you honestly believe there's any argument that Josh Smith is a better defender than prime Ben Wallace? Sure you could get into Wallace's lightyear advantage in defensive rating, basket protection, blocks per game, rebounds, etc, but is there even a point? The thought of that being true is so beyond ridiculous that it really did just deserve a facepalm.

And Dr. J over Pippen defensively... what? When you make statements that out of the realm of common basketball knowledge, the onus has to be on you to defend them, not others.

PhillyFaninLA
12-29-2010, 04:55 PM
Offense I'd go with:
PG - Magic Johnson
SG - Michael Jordon (but him here instead of the defensive team)
SF - Larry Bird
PF - Karl Malone
C - Kareem Abdul Jabar

Defense I'd go with:
PG - Gary Playton
SG - Sidney Moncrief (strongly considering MJ here)
SF - Scottie Pippen (considered Rodman for his rebounding, Lebron, and Worthy)
PF - Bill Russell
C - Hakeem Olajuwon


Honestly I have no clue who would win.

I also wanted to take into account do I think the players could actually play together and I think both teams would actually be able to play together without getting in each others way or egos clashing to much.

bartron_44
12-29-2010, 04:58 PM
How in the world is shaq on the offensive team. If Jordan can be put on both sides of the ball, I will take Shaq in his prime on both sides of the ball too. Using either of them really defeats the argument though, as you are supposed to pick people who were 1 way players, not simply the best players. same thing with the dream. The guy was a beast on both sides of the ball.


Pure Defense

Payton
Bowen
Smith
Wallace
Mutumbo



Pure Offense

Robertson
AI
Bird
Dirk
Wilt - his stats are just disgusting over his first 7 seasons


although Hard to say how good Robertson and wilt were on defense as I did not actually get to watch them...., but their scoring numbers were ridiculous in their primes. Robertson AVERAGED A TRIPLE DOUBLE in 61-62, and came VERY , VERY close on 5 other occasions. In fact, he was less then 1 assist, or less then 1 rebound away each year from averaging a triple double 5 straight seasons!!!

Wilt averaged 50 ppg and 25 rpg in 61-62..nuff said.

Weeks
12-29-2010, 05:42 PM
Offense:

Magic?
Jordan
Bird
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Wilt

BRADfromOZ
12-29-2010, 09:17 PM
Do you honestly believe there's any argument that Josh Smith is a better defender than prime Ben Wallace? Sure you could get into Wallace's lightyear advantage in defensive rating, basket protection, blocks per game, rebounds, etc, but is there even a point? The thought of that being true is so beyond ridiculous that it really did just deserve a facepalm.

And Dr. J over Pippen defensively... what? When you make statements that out of the realm of common basketball knowledge, the onus has to be on you to defend them, not others.
Oh there is easily an argument on who is the better defender but i'm stating my opinion and i'm the only person who can say if it is right or not. The rest of you can try to sway it but you can't say its wrong. You can only disagree with it. But to add to the argument I like Smith's ability to chase down players in transition over Wallace's ability to guard the paint. I mean you already have a center in there to do that (be it Hakeem or Dekembe) why do you need to throw in someone else who is going to do exactly the same job?