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View Full Version : Shotblocking: Intimidate or Play Smart?



Rentzias
12-28-2010, 06:52 PM
Howard Has League's Least Valuable Blocks (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/11/04/dwight-howard-will-continue-blocking-shots-out-of-bounds-thank-you-very-much/)

There's much made about Dwight Howard's preference to smack the ball out of bounds on blocks vs. the "Bill Rusell" style of tipping it and keeping it in-bounds (Bosh had a season a while back where all 74 blocks stayed in bounds). The article does make the point that fewer shots go up at the rim against the Magic.

But what is more important? Saving/adding possessions or negating the inside of the paint?

topdog
12-28-2010, 07:03 PM
KG always did the same thing. You go for the block however you can get it but if you can get a rebound too or a long outlet from it, that would be preferred.

Intimidation smimidation.

SteveNash
12-28-2010, 07:07 PM
Adding possessions of course.

KnicksorBust
12-28-2010, 07:10 PM
Play Smart no question. You don't think Russell was intimidating? It's so overrated how "intimidating" those blocks are to the opponent. These are pros. Swatting it 10 rows back just means they retain possession and get another opportunity to score.

marvILLous
12-28-2010, 07:16 PM
But swatting it 10 rows in also embarasses a player.. Pros don't wanna be embarrassed lol.. It can affect their game

I say.. If it's early in the game or if ur team is up big.. Intimidate.. But if it's a close game or a crucial part of the game.. Play smart

Chronz
12-28-2010, 07:17 PM
Undecided, maybe I dont understand the question. If your sayin the 2 have equal # of possessions added because of their shotblocking then its closer but Id still take the guy who swats more attempts.

In the case of say Duncan vs Dwight at their defensive best, Id take Duncan's lesser BPG and more Poss. Saved over Dwights emphatic spikes

llemon
12-28-2010, 07:17 PM
Intimidation is a factor.

Naturally you would prefer your team to get possession after you have blocked a shot, but severe swats, if you make enough of them, you discourage the opposition from going to the hole as much, and can affect their shots without blocks actually being made,

magichatnumber9
12-28-2010, 07:23 PM
Dwight has the maturity level of a 3rd grader.

Tony_Starks
12-28-2010, 07:25 PM
Playing smart is fundamentally better in theory but psychologically I roll with swatting it to the third row if possible. You do that a couple times and players really start to think twice when they come to the hole and thats when you start having guys alter their shot because they're "hearing footsteps."

KnicksorBust
12-28-2010, 07:26 PM
But swatting it 10 rows in also embarasses a player.. Pros don't wanna be embarrassed lol.. It can affect their game

I say.. If it's early in the game or if ur team is up big.. Intimidate.. But if it's a close game or a crucial part of the game.. Play smart


Intimidation is a factor.

Naturally you would prefer your team to get possession after you have blocked a shot, but severe swats, if you make enough of them, you discourage the opposition from going to the hole as much, and can affect their shots without blocks actually being made,

So you two don't think Bill Russell intimidated players?

topdog
12-28-2010, 07:27 PM
Here's the thing. Okay so you swat my shot, but my teammate picks it up and drives in for a layup or hits a jumper. I'm not thinking about how I got blocked, I'm thinking we just got an easy bucket.

Flash3
12-28-2010, 07:30 PM
"intimidating" may cause the opposing player to have invincible shot blocker syndrome, which will force them to make shots tougher then they should be even if your not really trying to swat the shot.

BALLER R
12-28-2010, 07:31 PM
you dont have to spike the ball 6 rows in thw crowd to be intimidating...i mean yeah block one as far as you can but from there on keep them inbound, it helps your team alot better than making all of them go out of bound. heck howard could easily grab those balls out the air sometimes

Chi-Town Sports
12-28-2010, 07:35 PM
I say intimidation, because either way chances are the opponents get the ball back. If you embarass someone then they start to think about it instead of just playing. And for those of you who play when you start to think more about it the worse you do.

llemon
12-28-2010, 07:39 PM
So you two don't think Bill Russell intimidated players?

Are you joking? Of course Russell intimidated players. Depending on whose tales you listen to, there were seasons that Russell averaged over 10 blocks a game.

But Russell was smart also, and tried to keep the ball in play.

In his years with the Lakers, Wilt used to actually start fastbreaks with his blocked shots.

BkOriginalOne
12-28-2010, 07:40 PM
Anyone who says intimidation is a fool.
OBVIOUSLY, the answer in ANY SPORT is to ALWAYS PLAY SMART!
Hmm, should I play Smart this game, or play dumb and be intimidating?
You can outsmart more people than you can intimidate, especially in the NBA.

KnicksorBust
12-28-2010, 07:41 PM
Are you joking? Of course Russell intimidated players. Depending on whose tales you listen to, there were seasons that Russell averaged over 10 blocks a game.

But Russell was smart also, and tried to keep the ball in play.

In his years with the Lakers, Wilt used to actually start fastbreaks with his blocked shots.

Exactly. And he didn't have to volleyball spike the shot into the stands to do it... so Dwight (and any other big who does that) is misplaying his blocks.

John Walls Era
12-28-2010, 07:53 PM
Swatting the ball is not as intimidating as fans think. Pro players will just wash it off, smacking the ball out of bounds if you can instead just lightly block it is stupid.

Pretend Dwight gets 5 blocks one night, if 4 of them get knocked out of bounds thats 4 new possessions. Add that with 50% shooting and thats at least 4 points. 4 points do matter in close games (especially playoffs).

Raph12
12-28-2010, 07:55 PM
Seeming as how the Magic have been a top 5 defensive team since his sophmore season (top 3 for the last 3 years) and they've been the best at paint protection and FG%at-the-rim... I'd like to think Dwight's doing a pretty good job, thing is, intimidation is just as important if not more important than blocking the shot. I guarantee you one thing, every player attacking the basket against the Magic looks in both directions and over-his-shoulder to make sure Dwight is nowhere near them.

Dwight's still the #1 inside presence in the league bar-none, now if he played with good perimeter defenders like the Celts team, his numbers would look even better without him getting into foul trouble.

KnicksorBust
12-28-2010, 08:04 PM
Seeming as how the Magic have been a top 5 defensive team since his sophmore season (top 3 for the last 3 years) and they've been the best at paint protection and FG%at-the-rim... I'd like to think Dwight's doing a pretty good job, thing is, intimidation is just as important if not more important than blocking the shot. I guarantee you one thing, every player attacking the basket against the Magic looks in both directions and over-his-shoulder to make sure Dwight is nowhere near them.

Dwight's still the #1 inside presence in the league bar-none, now if he played with good perimeter defenders like the Celts team, his numbers would look even better without him getting into foul trouble.

Two very simple questions:
1. Do you think Bill Russell intimidated opponents?
2. Does the fact that he's the #1 inside presence mean we shouldn't comment on any flaws?

llemon
12-28-2010, 08:19 PM
Exactly. And he didn't have to volleyball spike the shot into the stands to do it... so Dwight (and any other big who does that) is misplaying his blocks.

Dwight is neither Russell or Wilt.

But he is an intimidating figure on defense, and many players think twice before taking it to the basket on Dwight, not only because the blocks, but also because of the possibility of taking a very hard foul.

Raph12
12-28-2010, 08:42 PM
Two very simple questions:
1. Do you think Bill Russell intimidated opponents?
2. Does the fact that he's the #1 inside presence mean we shouldn't comment on any flaws?

1. Yes, but with no goaltending rule, it's a very, VERY different situation; put Dwight on that Celts team and they'd win a ring in all 13 seasons.

2. But it's not a flaw, he doesn't tip the ball because knocking it into the stands deters players from attacking in the first place. Stats don't lie, the Magic are #1 in paint protection, FG% and FG-attempted at the rim for a reason.

dtmagnet
12-28-2010, 09:01 PM
There's no such thing as intimidating blocks, only intimidating fouls.

TrueFan420
12-28-2010, 09:07 PM
There's no such thing as intimidating blocks, only intimidating fouls.

ill take a double dose of that

KnicksorBust
12-28-2010, 09:08 PM
1. Yes, but with no goaltending rule, it's a very, VERY different situation; put Dwight on that Celts team and they'd win a ring in all 13 seasons.

2. But it's not a flaw, he doesn't tip the ball because knocking it into the stands deters players from attacking in the first place. Stats don't lie, the Magic are #1 in paint protection, FG% and FG-attempted at the rim for a reason.

You contradict yourself. If Russell can intimidate without blocking shots out of bounds then why does Dwight Howard need to do it? Just because a team is #1 in a category doesn't mean they are playing it perfectly.

Raph12
12-28-2010, 09:17 PM
You contradict yourself. If Russell can intimidate without blocking shots out of bounds then why does Dwight Howard need to do it? Just because a team is #1 in a category doesn't mean they are playing it perfectly.

Because there was no goaltending calls in the 60s, if that was the case, Dwight could stand under the basket and just grab the ball everytime it was coming down and take away the possession. Comparing guys from previous eras to the players of today is foolish, different circumstances, different rules, different level of play, different girth of player, etc... It was a completely different situation.

Dwight playing the way he does intimidates athletic, explosive beasts like Lebron, Griffin, Amare, etc... from attacking the basket. Put Russell on the current Magic and he gets dunked on atleast once per game and they wouldn't be nearly as dominant defensively.

bagwell368
12-28-2010, 09:29 PM
Are you joking? Of course Russell intimidated players. Depending on whose tales you listen to, there were seasons that Russell averaged over 10 blocks a game.

But Russell was smart also, and tried to keep the ball in play.

In his years with the Lakers, Wilt used to actually start fastbreaks with his blocked shots.

I call crap. There is no doubt that if counted back in the days of Russell and Wilt they would have more blocks then Akeem. But I'm a major Celts fan and historian going back into the 60's when I saw him play (obviously past his prime). But I have never heard a peep about 10 blocks per game. Give the citation.


Now on the topic. Intimidation does not come just from a big block. It comes from any block. If there are enough of them, the offensive player has to think more about passing, altering his shoot, and other measures to keep from being blocked. If it's bad enough the offensive player may give up shooting in a given game or every time you play that player. That's intimidation.

Clearly blocking it inbounds to your teammate is far better then any ego/chest thumping block - although a big out of bounds block is better then an unmolested shot.

bagwell368
12-28-2010, 09:31 PM
There's no such thing as intimidating blocks, only intimidating fouls.

Obviously you have never played the game.

My favorite blocks were when the ball just cleared the guys fingers and I could slam it back at the top of thier heads or faces like a volleyball spike. That was fun and I promise you everyone I did it to was either scared as hell or angry as hell or both. Good.

KnicksorBust
12-28-2010, 09:34 PM
Because there was no goaltending calls in the 60s, if that was the case, Dwight could stand under the basket and just grab the ball everytime it was coming down and take away the possession. Comparing guys from previous eras to the players of today is foolish, different circumstances, different rules, different level of play, different girth of player, etc... It was a completely different situation.

Dwight playing the way he does intimidates athletic, explosive beasts like Lebron, Griffin, Amare, etc... from attacking the basket. Put Russell on the current Magic and he gets dunked on atleast once per game and they wouldn't be nearly as dominant defensively.

Do me a favor and check your facts. Also if comparing players from previous eras is so foolish then why do you keep doing it? :rolleyes:

The fact remains that blocking a shot out of bounds gives the opposing team the ball back and allows them another opportunity to score. Simply put it's more of an advantage to try and control possession. I believe this "intimidation" is overrated (especially in the pros) and any intimidation that does exist would still be attained even if the shotblocker kept the ball in bounds.

bagwell368
12-28-2010, 09:34 PM
1. Yes, but with no goaltending rule, it's a very, VERY different situation; put Dwight on that Celts team and they'd win a ring in all 13 seasons.

Really? Did you know Russell was first or second in assists for the Celts more then half the years he played? Has Howard actually had an assist in the NBA? ;)

Hakeem is the only Center I am sure of would have won 13 out of 13 for the Celts. Remember the Celts were a huge fast breaking team, so lead weights like Shaq, Malone, Kareem and others don't work either.

bagwell368
12-28-2010, 09:39 PM
Dwight is neither Russell or Wilt.

But he is an intimidating figure on defense, and many players think twice before taking it to the basket on Dwight, not only because the blocks, but also because of the possibility of taking a very hard foul.

That Howard is rarely called for.... now that is intimidation.

I've been hearing about all these guys he works with in the offseason, it might finally be working, I've seen offensive moves out of him this year that I have not seen before. He still has time to become what his more fervid (and misled) fans have labeled him already - an all time great. We'll see.

Raph12
12-28-2010, 10:08 PM
Really? Did you know Russell was first or second in assists for the Celts more then half the years he played? Has Howard actually had an assist in the NBA? ;)

Hakeem is the only Center I am sure of would have won 13 out of 13 for the Celts. Remember the Celts were a huge fast breaking team, so lead weights like Shaq, Malone, Kareem and others don't work either.

Russell also had a career-best 15.4ptsper36mins on 47FG%, a mark beaten by Dwight after his rookie season, never shooting under 52FG% with a career-best of 22ptsper36mins and 61FG%... Dwight isn't the passer Russell was (which was his most impressive trait IMO), but he's a much, much better scorer. Fast-breaking would work fine with Dwight, he's the 2nd fastest player on his team and loves to run both sides.

Again it would be stupid to compare players from different eras, doing it effectively and accuratel is extremely difficult.


Do me a favor and check your facts. Also if comparing players from previous eras is so foolish then why do you keep doing it? :rolleyes:

The fact remains that blocking a shot out of bounds gives the opposing team the ball back and allows them another opportunity to score. Simply put it's more of an advantage to try and control possession. I believe this "intimidation" is overrated (especially in the pros) and any intimidation that does exist would still be attained even if the shotblocker kept the ball in bounds.

I don't keep doing it, you brought Russell up, not me.

Intimidation works, whether you like to believe it or not, if the Magic who is filled with terrible perimeter defenders can consistently lead the league in FG%/ATT at the rim and paint protection, means that Dwight's intimidation is working. Less players attack the rim and when they do they don't shoot it at a high percentage.

bigsams50
12-28-2010, 10:43 PM
Maybe its just me, but i think its more embarrassing to have the ball snatched out of the air by a defender, then thrown into the stands

Raph12
12-29-2010, 02:07 AM
Maybe its just me, but i think its more embarrassing to have the ball snatched out of the air by a defender, then thrown into the stands

Again, who has ever done that besides Dwight?:

1. Dwight blocks Lee (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3-IyvtQ9AU)
2. Dwight blocks Nocioni (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkCYXgfFyKU)
3. Dwight blocks Quinn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0HoDopuc9w)
4. Dwight blocks Smith (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL4IOeCod6s)

There are definitely more, but when he can, he makes it a habit to grab them or blast them out, either way the offensive player is embarassed after the play and definitely hesistates before attacking the rim again.

ClipperfanKevin
12-29-2010, 03:12 AM
Keep them in play. If the opposing team scores enough easy ones on your blocked lay up attempts, you're gonna think twice about driving to the hole.

dtmagnet
12-29-2010, 08:56 PM
Obviously you have never played the game.

My favorite blocks were when the ball just cleared the guys fingers and I could slam it back at the top of thier heads or faces like a volleyball spike. That was fun and I promise you everyone I did it to was either scared as hell or angry as hell or both. Good.

What a dumb thing to say to someone on a sports forum, of course I have played. When I got a shot blocked the only thing it did to me mentally was make me want to go back in harder and make up for it. Big blocks look flashy and fans enjoy them but I don't believe NBA players will stay out of the paint because of them. Being afraid of getting put on your *** is another thing however...

netsgiantsyanks
12-29-2010, 09:00 PM
a little bit of both imo.

Tony_Starks
12-30-2010, 02:22 AM
Maybe its just me, but i think its more embarrassing to have the ball snatched out of the air by a defender, then thrown into the stands


This is true. The catch block is pretty crucial. Those and the chase down blocks are the best......

homestarunner93
12-30-2010, 02:54 AM
Spiking the ball out of bounds is idiotic. You're all overrating the "intimidation" or "embarrassment" factor. These are professional players, I doubt they are terribly concerned over some player who acts like an *** blocking one or two of their shots in a game.

Kyle N.
12-30-2010, 05:51 AM
^Exactly. No matter where the ball lands when you get your shot blocked, be it six rows up or in the hands of the other team, you're going to think twice the next time you take the ball inside. And when they actually score off of it, it's going to be even more frustrating. NBA players aren't going to be like "Well golly, I didn't know Dwight could hit the ball that far." Go for the possession. You aren't showing NBA players anything they haven't already seen before.


Again, who has ever done that besides Dwight?:

1. Dwight blocks Lee (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3-IyvtQ9AU)
2. Dwight blocks Nocioni (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkCYXgfFyKU)
3. Dwight blocks Quinn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0HoDopuc9w)
4. Dwight blocks Smith (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL4IOeCod6s)

There are definitely more, but when he can, he makes it a habit to grab them or blast them out, either way the offensive player is embarassed after the play and definitely hesistates before attacking the rim again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qjLYrwQeOI

It's been done before. And I'm not questioning grabbing the ball out of the air. I think that's great, you get the possession. He should try it more often.


Seeming as how the Magic have been a top 5 defensive team since his sophmore season (top 3 for the last 3 years) and they've been the best at paint protection and FG%at-the-rim... I'd like to think Dwight's doing a pretty good job, thing is, intimidation is just as important if not more important than blocking the shot. I guarantee you one thing, every player attacking the basket against the Magic looks in both directions and over-his-shoulder to make sure Dwight is nowhere near them.

Dwight's still the #1 inside presence in the league bar-none, now if he played with good perimeter defenders like the Celts team, his numbers would look even better without him getting into foul trouble.

Definitely but he could be even better. Same with his free throw shooting. Dwight is one of my favorite players who is not/has never been a King so I'm not trying to hate on him or anything, but I'm just speaking out for this philosophy of shot blocking. I'd rather try for the extra possessions. If you get one, good. If you don't, oh well but you have to be trying for it.

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bagwell368
01-01-2011, 03:26 PM
What a dumb thing to say to someone on a sports forum, of course I have played. [/QUOTE[

Of course, I just left off the smiley

[QUOTE]When I got a shot blocked the only thing it did to me mentally was make me want to go back in harder and make up for it.

Just the point! You forgot the other 4 guys you were playing with due to ego. Players in that frame of mind are more apt to commit stupid fouls and get T's.... ahhhh the plan worked!

SteveNash
01-01-2011, 03:36 PM
Because there was no goaltending calls in the 60s, if that was the case, Dwight could stand under the basket and just grab the ball everytime it was coming down and take away the possession. Comparing guys from previous eras to the players of today is foolish, different circumstances, different rules, different level of play, different girth of player, etc... It was a completely different situation.

Dwight playing the way he does intimidates athletic, explosive beasts like Lebron, Griffin, Amare, etc... from attacking the basket. Put Russell on the current Magic and he gets dunked on atleast once per game and they wouldn't be nearly as dominant defensively.

Goaltending was called throughout Bill Russell's entire career.

Khalifa21
01-01-2011, 03:49 PM
Again, who has ever done that besides Dwight?:

1. Dwight blocks Lee (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3-IyvtQ9AU)
2. Dwight blocks Nocioni (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkCYXgfFyKU)
3. Dwight blocks Quinn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0HoDopuc9w)
4. Dwight blocks Smith (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL4IOeCod6s)

There are definitely more, but when he can, he makes it a habit to grab them or blast them out, either way the offensive player is embarassed after the play and definitely hesistates before attacking the rim again.

All of those examples apart from maybe the Lee one were goaltends.

knicks4life33
01-01-2011, 05:37 PM
Lol you think its easy to block it and keep it in bounds lol when some1 is coming to the hoop your not looking to do a soft block u have all this adrealine and u wanna swat that ball away and ur enot thinking to do a soft block lol

CaptainHay
01-01-2011, 05:54 PM
Id go with the style Howard uses. No one wants to go into the paint unless they see a way they can get Howard a foul. It minus's free throw attempts, and pip while playing the Magic.

DwayneMVPwade
01-01-2011, 06:08 PM
If the arena is silent I would try block it to Intimidate. However, if its crunch time and the score is tight I would block it smartly

0nekhmer
01-01-2011, 06:14 PM
they're mad because no one CAN swat balls to the stands like he does. if you've been blocked that hard before, you'd know how it feels to layup against an invisible wall.

JayW_1023
01-02-2011, 07:49 AM
Shotblocking is such an overrated part of basketball. I don't get why players like Howard or Camby tend to sacrifice great defensive position to block shots.

Good position D and challenging shots are more important, which is why a player like KG has such an impact. He is a better defender than Howard because he doesn't get carried away trying to get a highlight reel block.