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JordansBulls
12-26-2010, 10:17 PM
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/la-sp-heisler-kobe-lebron-20101225,0,6478984.column



After seven seasons in Cleveland, when he could have left in four, he went to the end, trying to figure out how to stay, asking star after star — Bosh, Wade, Chris Paul — to join him.

Myriad sources involved in last July's far-flung process say it was only after LeBron couldn't bring in help that he turned to Plan B, as in Bananas.

More sources involved at other levels confirm parts of the story.

A Toronto source says Bosh turned down a Raptors offer to trade him to Cleveland, which would have given him a max deal, $10 million bigger than the one he took in Miami.

A New Orleans source says the Cavaliers pursued Paul, one of James' closest friends, who would have been overjoyed to go.

SteBO
12-26-2010, 10:22 PM
Yeah I heard that Toronto had a sign and trade on the table to send Bosh to Cleveland and the Raps would get like J.J. Hickson, a couple other players and picks. And regarding Chris Paul, I think that had a lot to do with the fact that Paul really liked Byron Scott as a coach. He was pretty upset he got canned in New Orleans.

NYtilIdie
12-26-2010, 10:30 PM
Everybody knew this. Its just certain people pretended they didn't hear about so they can say "Lebron should've stayed in Cleveland, Bosh said he was willing to play there in a S&T, Lebron just took the easy route instead"

effen5
12-26-2010, 10:35 PM
So would it have been CP3, Bosh, and Bron?

Dade County
12-26-2010, 10:36 PM
Everybody knew this. Its just certain people pretended they didn't hear about so they can say "Lebron should've stayed in Cleveland, Bosh said he was willing to play there in a S&T, Lebron just took the easy route instead"

Can you post a link, showing that Bosh said he would play in Cleveland in a S&T deal.......... thank you.

ink
12-26-2010, 10:38 PM
Toronto media were all over this in the summer.

effen5
12-26-2010, 10:39 PM
Honestly, I thought Bosh said he wasnt willing to play in Cleveland...

ink
12-26-2010, 10:40 PM
Can you post a link, showing that Bosh said he would play in Cleveland in a S&T deal.......... thank you.

Read his post again. He just said the opposite.

justinnum1
12-26-2010, 10:47 PM
Nothing to see here...Bosh was never going to go to cle.

thekmp211
12-26-2010, 10:55 PM
they could have had STAT if they'd removed the "untouchable" tag from jj hicksons packaging. :facepalm:

goblazers7
12-26-2010, 11:01 PM
Lol

h2r09
12-26-2010, 11:14 PM
what was he thinking? turning down 10 millions of money that wont ever see light out of his bank account or have a more pleasent experience and win more in miami. just ridiculous his decision making.

Flash3
12-26-2010, 11:15 PM
Bosh said on espn mike and mike that he didn't know if lebron was gonna stay which is the reason he turned it down.

Muttman73
12-26-2010, 11:18 PM
One more reason why the NBA is my least favorite of the major sports

DoJoTheSlasher
12-26-2010, 11:19 PM
Bron in Cleveland adding Bosh would be better than Miami.

Flash3
12-26-2010, 11:20 PM
Bron in Cleveland adding Bosh would be better than Miami.

:eyebrow:

blacknell
12-26-2010, 11:22 PM
i kinda thought Bosh was going to come to Dallas and play

HouRealCoach
12-26-2010, 11:23 PM
Lebron, Bosh, Shaq, Mo-Will, Jamison, Sessions, Get someone with MLE(Maybe J. Howard, M. Miller, Morrow, etc.), Byron Scott coaching, Vet-Min for T-Mac, AI, or someone... That team would have been the **** *Sorry PSD I had to say it*

HouRealCoach
12-26-2010, 11:26 PM
So would it have been CP3, Bosh, and Bron?

Naw... they tried to get CP3 but they couldnt... Bosh couldve been a done deal if he agreed to it

h2r09
12-26-2010, 11:26 PM
Lebron, Bosh, Shaq, Mo-Will, Jamison, Sessions, Get someone with MLE(Maybe J. Howard, M. Miller, Morrow, etc.), Byron Scott coaching, Vet-Min for T-Mac, AI, or someone... That team would have been the **** *Sorry PSD I had to say it*

role players dont equal the impact of d wade. the mere argument is ridiculous.

DoJoTheSlasher
12-26-2010, 11:27 PM
:eyebrow:

Shaq most likely stays, everyone else on the team bonded so well together. Adding Bosh to a 60 win team that has soo much chemistry could have made them even or better than Boston.

justinnum1
12-26-2010, 11:31 PM
role players dont equal the impact of d wade. the mere argument is ridiculous.

This

Flash3
12-26-2010, 11:33 PM
Shaq most likely stays, everyone else on the team bonded so well together. Adding Bosh to a 60 win team that has soo much chemistry could have made them even or better than Boston.

:( o ur serious.

madiaz3
12-26-2010, 11:58 PM
I agree that the team would have been better than Miami is now, chemistry wise and the end-product, not necessarily total talent.

Nikeman
12-27-2010, 12:03 AM
My fellow Heat fans will hate me, but I try to be a realist. I agree that CLE with Bosh and James plus their current roster is better than the current Miami as of NOW. Meaning, that if Miami steps it up some more, then I may be wrong.

My reason? You don’t need D-Wade and LBJ on one team to win a championship. You need only one of them and a perfect surrounding team. LBJ and Wade are MORE than capable of doing it alone as the alpha dogs.

Let’s break it down… I know its raising it a bit, but lets say the Big 3 average 75 ppg. Miami averages what 95-100 ppg? Basically, you get 3 guys scoring 3/4ths of the teams points in Miami, in Cleveland, we’d see a much different result, much more team oriented, which I like.

At the moment, Miami is locked into 3 essentially max deals, I know not technically max, but pretty much. Cleveland would be locked into two.

Finally, most important, DEPTH, Miami has NONE, Cleveland with that roster would have the most in the NBA.

Mo Williams at PG, a solid 15 ppg, 6-8 assist per game guy, better than Arroyo and Chalmers combined, also we’ve seen some clutchness out of him.

Back-up, Daniel Gibson, I’d argue he’s better than Arroyo and Chalmers too.

Anthony Parker at SG? This is the weakness, on the roster, but Parker is a solid 3 pt man, which is what LBJ needs around him. But compared to D-wade, the SG position is where Miami wins.

SF- LBJ

PF- Bosh on both teams, but Miami’s back-up is Udonis Haslem, and Clevelend’s is Antwan Jamison. I love UD and he’s my fave player on the Heat, but Jamison is a legit 20/10 guy, not anymore, but stillsolid

C- biggest weakness on Miami, and Cleveland if LBJ stayed would still likely have Shaq, and Anderson Varjeo. Anderson is a pure hustle guy, and Shaq and Varejao are perfect compliments to the team.

I am sorry, but D-wade does not equal two true centers, Antwan Jamison, and Mo Williams.

SteBO
12-27-2010, 12:05 AM
No, Cleveland woudn't have been better than Miami now. That's foolishness. Don't overstate the role players because at the end the end of the day, a team will go as far as their stars take them, not their role guys.

John Walls Era
12-27-2010, 12:05 AM
they could have had STAT if they'd removed the "untouchable" tag from jj hicksons packaging. :facepalm:

You guys bring Amare into everything. Don't you want the Knicks to be relevant? Just be happy you got him.




i kinda thought Bosh was going to come to Dallas and play

Raptors would gain nothing from the S&T, Mavs were not going to give us Dirk. Also Dirk + Bosh = disaster.

SteBO
12-27-2010, 12:08 AM
My fellow Heat fans will hate me, but I try to be a realist. I agree that CLE with Bosh and James plus their current roster is better than the current Miami as of NOW. Meaning, that if Miami steps it up some more, then I may be wrong.

My reason? You don’t need D-Wade and LBJ on one team to win a championship. You need only one of them and a perfect surrounding team. LBJ and Wade are MORE than capable of doing it alone as the alpha dogs.

Let’s break it down… I know its raising it a bit, but lets say the Big 3 average 75 ppg. Miami averages what 95-100 ppg? Basically, you get 3 guys scoring 3/4ths of the teams points in Miami, in Cleveland, we’d see a much different result, much more team oriented, which I like.

At the moment, Miami is locked into 3 essentially max deals, I know not technically max, but pretty much. Cleveland would be locked into two.

Finally, most important, DEPTH, Miami has NONE, Cleveland with that roster would have the most in the NBA.

Mo Williams at PG, a solid 15 ppg, 6-8 assist per game guy, better than Arroyo and Chalmers combined, also we’ve seen some clutchness out of him.

Back-up, Daniel Gibson, I’d argue he’s better than Arroyo and Chalmers too.

Anthony Parker at SG? This is the weakness, on the roster, but Parker is a solid 3 pt man, which is what LBJ needs around him. But compared to D-wade, the SG position is where Miami wins.

SF- LBJ

PF- Bosh on both teams, but Miami’s back-up is Udonis Haslem, and Clevelend’s is Antwan Jamison. I love UD and he’s my fave player on the Heat, but Jamison is a legit 20/10 guy, not anymore, but stillsolid

C- biggest weakness on Miami, and Cleveland if LBJ stayed would still likely have Shaq, and Anderson Varjeo. Anderson is a pure hustle guy, and Shaq and Varejao are perfect compliments to the team.

I am sorry, but D-wade does not equal two true centers, Antwan Jamison, and Mo Williams.
D-Wade > two true centers, Mo Williams and Antawn Jamison

Sactown
12-27-2010, 12:10 AM
You guys bring Amare into everything. Don't you want the Knicks to be relevant? Just be happy you got him.





Raptors would gain nothing from the S&T, Mavs were not going to give us Dirk. Also Dirk + Bosh = disaster.

No, all knick fans annoy me.. congratz on your first winning season in 10 years now stfu..

Nikeman
12-27-2010, 12:10 AM
D-Wade > two true centers, Mo Williams and Antawn Jamison

I love D-wade too, but sorry, no way in hell this is true dude..

Ty Fast
12-27-2010, 12:12 AM
i think Antawn Jamison was also part of that deal

John Walls Era
12-27-2010, 12:13 AM
No, all knick fans annoy me.. congratz on your first winning season in 10 years now stfu..

I was talking to the Knicks' fans. Not you.

Flash3
12-27-2010, 12:17 AM
My fellow Heat fans will hate me, but I try to be a realist. I agree that CLE with Bosh and James plus their current roster is better than the current Miami as of NOW. Meaning, that if Miami steps it up some more, then I may be wrong.

My reason? You don’t need D-Wade and LBJ on one team to win a championship. You need only one of them and a perfect surrounding team. LBJ and Wade are MORE than capable of doing it alone as the alpha dogs.

Let’s break it down… I know its raising it a bit, but lets say the Big 3 average 75 ppg. Miami averages what 95-100 ppg? Basically, you get 3 guys scoring 3/4ths of the teams points in Miami, in Cleveland, we’d see a much different result, much more team oriented, which I like.

At the moment, Miami is locked into 3 essentially max deals, I know not technically max, but pretty much. Cleveland would be locked into two.

Finally, most important, DEPTH, Miami has NONE, Cleveland with that roster would have the most in the NBA.

Mo Williams at PG, a solid 15 ppg, 6-8 assist per game guy, better than Arroyo and Chalmers combined, also we’ve seen some clutchness out of him.

Back-up, Daniel Gibson, I’d argue he’s better than Arroyo and Chalmers too.

Anthony Parker at SG? This is the weakness, on the roster, but Parker is a solid 3 pt man, which is what LBJ needs around him. But compared to D-wade, the SG position is where Miami wins.

SF- LBJ

PF- Bosh on both teams, but Miami’s back-up is Udonis Haslem, and Clevelend’s is Antwan Jamison. I love UD and he’s my fave player on the Heat, but Jamison is a legit 20/10 guy, not anymore, but stillsolid

C- biggest weakness on Miami, and Cleveland if LBJ stayed would still likely have Shaq, and Anderson Varjeo. Anderson is a pure hustle guy, and Shaq and Varejao are perfect compliments to the team.

I am sorry, but D-wade does not equal two true centers, Antwan Jamison, and Mo Williams.

I hate you.

SchyGuy11
12-27-2010, 12:18 AM
i think that big 3 would have been better because a pg like paul would make everyone better rather than a bunch of ball hogs on one team. they would have been a more complete team

tjlipford
12-27-2010, 12:24 AM
I think we all know that Bosh didnt want to come to Cleveland, thats why we didnt get him. We had the pieces that Toronto was willing to trade for, but Bosh didnt want to play in Cleveland its as simple as that

RCarlson85
12-27-2010, 12:29 AM
Is this really a big surprise? NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY IN CLEVELAND! The Cavs are lucky Lebron game them 7 years. Those 7 were only because he's from Ohio. If not for that fact, he would have been gone before he was.

Ty Fast
12-27-2010, 12:32 AM
I think we all know that Bosh didnt want to come to Cleveland, thats why we didnt get him. We had the pieces that Toronto was willing to trade for, but Bosh didnt want to play in Cleveland its as simple as that

nobody wanted to go to cleveland. the only guy they managed to sign was Larry Hughes.

AddiX
12-27-2010, 01:15 AM
Cleveland is a dump and in the history of the NBA, there is a pretty strong pattern of premiere players staying the **** away from there. I don't think you'll find anyone not from Cleveland who wants to be there.

Wade>You
12-27-2010, 07:23 AM
Don't know many people that would trade Wade for two true Centers, Mo Williams, and Antawn Jamison. Not if you're trying to win, at least.

Heater4life
12-27-2010, 09:06 AM
Role players are interchangeable. Stars are not. If you as a star player have the ability to play with two other top tier players you take it. Bosh didnt go to Cleveland because he wasnt sure what Lebron was doing, Bosh didnt go because he doesnt like the city of Cleveland. He's said so.

SteBO
12-27-2010, 09:37 AM
Don't know many people that would trade Wade for two true Centers, Mo Williams, and Antawn Jamison. Not if you're trying to win, at least.

This

PlezPlayDKnicks
12-27-2010, 09:53 AM
A wizards fan and a sacto fan bashing the Knicks lol... Our team has been bad for 1 decade... B4 then contenders for the better half of 2 decades. What have ur teams done?
The 3 amigos knew the plan so Bosh was never gonna go to Cleveland. Lebron didn't want to be a franchise savior. He wants to chill and have fun in Miami with very little pressure from the fans and win lots of games. Can't blame him.

xbrackattackx
12-27-2010, 10:25 AM
LOL at all of the Heat fans getting Mad at the Truth.

If my team had Bosh and Lebron (Lebron is a dominant scorer but is better then Wade)

and I could Pick....

Wade,Miller,Haslem and Big Z

or

Daniel Gibson,JJ,Anderson,Shaq and Antwan Jamison and Mo Williams and even Anthony Parker and Moon. This team is built for a superstar to lead and they will follow. Give this Team Pat Riley as a Coach they are champs.



If Miami fans could Keep your big 3 and trade entire team with the Cavs, Don't act like you wouldn't.

ROY 2 MVP Braun
12-27-2010, 10:26 AM
nikeman is a smart heat fan cant say so much for the rest yeah u would take wade over them if u were just starting a team but if u already had lbj coming back than i would take the many role players over another star when i wud have been bring in bosh already!

SteBO
12-27-2010, 10:36 AM
nikeman is a smart heat fan cant say so much for the rest yeah u would take wade over them if u were just starting a team but if u already had lbj coming back than i would take the many role players over another star when i wud have been bring in bosh already!


I cud say the say the same about you, though you're clearly not a heat fan. What have those role players proven to me over two years? Sorry but Mo Willams, Anderson Varejao, Antawn Jamison, etc. based on the way they've been playing over Dwyane is laughable. Role players don't win you championships, stars do. Lakers won last year. Why? Because they have the most stars. Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol are stars, and you can make an argument for Lamar Odom the way he's playing this year. Bron, Bosh and those ROLE :rolleyes: players against this Lakers team now are not winning anything. Sorry, but that's reality. Role players are created by SUPERSTARS. That's the way the NBA has always been. BTW, Haslem and Miller, heck even James Jones and House aren't scrubs. Jones is shooting 45% from three this year and House ain't great, bt he's got a ring to prove he's a good building block on a campionship team. Haslem's no different from Andy and Miller's got a skill set that even LeBron and Wade don't even have. Give me a break already bro. Look in a mirror bro before you call out heat fans for not being knowledgable about the game, okay. :clap:

xbrackattackx
12-27-2010, 10:40 AM
I cud say the say the same about you. What have those role players proven to me over two years? Sorry but Mo Willams, Anderson Varejao, Antawn Jamison, etc. based on the way they've been playing over Dwyane is laughable. Role players don't win you championships, stars do. Lakers won last year. Why? Because they have the most stars. Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol are stars, and you can make an argument for Lamar Odom the way he's playing this year. Bron, Bosh and those ROLE :rolleyes: players against this Lakers team now are not winning anything. Sorry, but that's reality. Role players are created by SUPERSTARS. That's the way the NBA has always been. BTW, Haslem and Miller, heck even James Jones and House aren't scrubs. Jones is shooting 45% from three this year and House ain't great, bt he's got a ring to prove he's a good building block on a campionship team. Haslem's no different from Andy and Miller's got a skill set that even LeBron and Wade don't even have. Give me a break already bro. Look in a mirror bro before you call out heat fans for not being knowledgable about the game, okay. :clap:

I stopped reading there. I know why you are a heat fan now.

Look at Detroit when they won, All role players no big star.

Role players absolutely help win championships.

Horry,Fisher,Rodman,all big role players for their chips.

SteBO
12-27-2010, 10:47 AM
I stopped reading there. I know why you are a heat fan now.

Look at Detroit when they won, All role players no big star.

Role players absolutely help win championships.

Horry,Fisher,Rodman,all big role players for their chips.


So what you're telling me is that Carlos Arroyo can't be similar to Fisher?
UD can't be similar to Rodman?
C'mon man. Those guys you mentioned would be nobodies if it wasn't for Kobe, prime Shaq, Michael Jordan, and Scottie Pippen, and it shouldn't be any different with the big three now.
If u read the whole post like you should, you'd see that I mentioned this but you're too one track minded. I'm a heat fan, but also an NBA fan and I know how teams have won championships. Role players help, no doubt, but that's because the opposition is too honed in the on the star players.

xbrackattackx
12-27-2010, 11:09 AM
So what you're telling me is that Carlos Arroyo can't be similar to Fisher?
UD can't be similar to Rodman?
C'mon man. Those guys you mentioned would be nobodies if it wasn't for Kobe, prime Shaq, Michael Jordan, and Scottie Pippen, and it shouldn't be any different with the big three now.
If u read the whole post like you should, you'd see that I mentioned this but you're too one track minded. I'm a heat fan, but also an NBA fan and I know how teams have won championships. Role players help, no doubt, but that's because the opposition is too honed in the on the star players.

I am not saying they can't be similar I am saying they can. UD,Miller and Big Z performances will make or break the heat. You know Lebron,Bosh and Wade are gonna do work every night. It's up to the role players to help with easy buckets,rebounds,open shots and for one of them to step up if one of the big 3 is having a bad night. Basketball is a team game not a Star game. And no matter how you cut it. Everyone has to know their roles to be a successful team.

tbomlad
12-27-2010, 11:10 AM
Yes, if you read it, I wrote an article on how Bosh changed the entire landscape of the NBA. If Bosh would have said yes to the Cavs then LeBron would still be in Cleveland, Wade would be in Chicago, Boozer would be in NJ, and Beasley would still be in Miami, just to mention a few. And no, CP3 would not be in Cleveland.

SteBO
12-27-2010, 11:20 AM
I am not saying they can't be similar I am saying they can. UD,Miller and Big Z performances will make or break the heat. You know Lebron,Bosh and Wade are gonna do work every night. It's up to the role players to help with easy buckets,rebounds,open shots and for one of them to step up if one of the big 3 is having a bad night. Basketball is a team game not a Star game. And no matter how you cut it. Everyone has to know their roles to be a successful team.

I agree with everything u posted. Role players play a part. I'm just saying that without the stars, they can't contribute much and Mo Williams, Anderson Varajeo, Jamison etc. didn't do anything in the playoffs. Just adding Bosh wouldn't have put them over top, they'd have to redo the roster and get better players, keeping Anderson Varajeo. Jamison's old already and Mo has proven twice now that he can't step up when it matters.

Silent
12-27-2010, 11:20 AM
there was so much collusion going on and tampering bosh allready new where he was going just like james did

SteBO
12-27-2010, 11:25 AM
there was so much collusion going on and tampering bosh allready new where he was going just like james did

Hate to admit, bt i have to agree. They all signed the same contracts in terms of the years. That should've given it away.

Rivera
12-27-2010, 11:40 AM
no carlos arroyo is not similar than derrick fisher....thats a joke...his defense is not on fishers lever...fishers clutch shooting and intangibles arroyo will never touch or have in his lifetime...and no UD cannot be similar to rodman or sniff rodmans jockstrap....rodman is 2 time defensive player of the year and multiple defensive teams and one of the greatest rebounders EVER....UD will not even come close to that...UD when healthy doesnt even start on his team....UD at best is a poor poor poor mans dennis rodman


but i will say if bosh joined the cavs.....i think i would still pick this miami team....i saw somewhere that cleveland has 2 true centers.....so does miami....big Z and eric dampier....Miami is the best defensive team in the NBA...y because both LBJ n wade are phenominal defenders....and as u saw in the xmas game....wade could focus on the defensive end and use all his energy on kobe...lbj could give him a spell for guarding kobe while LBJ orchestrates the offense...miller jones chalmers are all capable shooters....this miami team has a 100% better shot at winning a chip vs if cleveland had bosh...because of this teams defense AND you have 2 of the top 4 players in the NBA on one team...and 3 of the top 20 players in the NBA on one team...a 10 to 12 person bench in the NBA is overrated its only good during the regular season to give players rest......if u go 8 quality players deep in the playoffs your deep enough


EDIT: This story has already been around....the toronto news paper was all over this story in the summer.....and chris bosh had all the right to turn down this trade because chris bosh was a free agent....it was for a sign and trade....blame torontos management for not doing the trade during the season when chris bosh was under contract....and if cleveland didnt want to do it during the season blame them to but bosh had all the right to reject the trade since he was a FA

SteBO
12-27-2010, 11:49 AM
no carlos arroyo is not similar than derrick fisher....thats a joke...his defense is not on fishers lever...fishers clutch shooting and intangibles arroyo will never touch or have in his lifetime...and no UD cannot be similar to rodman or sniff rodmans jockstrap....rodman is 2 time defensive player of the year and multiple defensive teams and one of the greatest rebounders EVER....UD will not even come close to that...UD when healthy doesnt even start on his team....UD at best is a poor poor poor mans dennis rodman


but i will say if bosh joined the cavs.....i think i would still pick this miami team....i saw somewhere that cleveland has 2 true centers.....so does miami....big Z and eric dampier....Miami is the best defensive team in the NBA...y because both LBJ n wade are phenominal defenders....and as u saw in the xmas game....wade could focus on the defensive end and use all his energy on kobe...lbj could give him a spell for guarding kobe while LBJ orchestrates the offense...miller jones chalmers are all capable shooters....this miami team has a 100% better shot at winning a chip vs if cleveland had bosh...because of this teams defense AND you have 2 of the top 4 players in the NBA on one team...and 3 of the top 20 players in the NBA on one team...a 10 to 12 person bench in the NBA is overrated its only good during the regular season to give players rest......if u go 8 quality players deep in the playoffs your deep enough


Udonis doesn't start on his own team because we have a better player in Bosh bro. Secondly, UD isn't a poor poor poor man's version of Rodman, stop overexaggerating. I never said he was anything like Rodman, but he has similar skillsets and Udonis has had a lot of monsterous rebounding games in his career. Bt your not a heat fan, so i don't expect you to know that. Otherwise, good insight on your opinion. Liked the 8 man rotation statement. Miami at some point will have this playoff rotation

Wade
LeBron
Bosh
Miller
Haslem
Big Z
Dampier
Chalmers
Jones
Arroyo

This is a ten man rotation, but we have some options. If Eddie House cud starting shooting like i know he can again if he gets the chance cud crack the rotation, if he isn't traded, bt he won't imo.

BALLER R
12-27-2010, 12:10 PM
he could of gone to cleveland but he turned it down why because he knew he was going to miami

IndyRealist
12-27-2010, 12:48 PM
Don't know many people that would trade Wade for two true Centers, Mo Williams, and Antawn Jamison. Not if you're trying to win, at least.

Not a question of trading. If you can get 5X talent in one position, it's always better than having 2 2X talents and a 1X talent. You just rebuild around the 5X guy. But you still have to fill out a roster, bring in rebounders, defenders, ball handlers, etc. I'd take a 60 win team + Bosh over Miami's 3 + Haslem and scraps.

SteBO
12-27-2010, 12:58 PM
Not a question of trading. If you can get 5X talent in one position, it's always better than having 2 2X talents and a 1X talent. You just rebuild around the 5X guy. But you still have to fill out a roster, bring in rebounders, defenders, ball handlers, etc. I'd take a 60 win team + Bosh over Miami's 3 + Haslem and scraps.

:pity: Mike Miller is better than any supporting player Cleveland had the last two years, yes including Mo Williams simply because of versatility. Big Z isn't really a scrub by any stretch and James Jones is a 44% three point shooter. Miami's clearly better than Cle last year + Bosh and it's not even close. I'm not trying to be a homer here, it's just an honest opinion.

fire2last
12-27-2010, 12:59 PM
This is nothing new. We all knew this during the summer.

prodigy
12-27-2010, 12:59 PM
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/la-sp-heisler-kobe-lebron-20101225,0,6478984.column


Chris Bosh was asked on ESPN the day he signed with the heat if Lebron talked to him about going to Cleveland, Bosh said this- "we never talked about it!

I couldn't fine that quote. But I found this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8uyrG5Slek

I just wish lebron would have helped the Cavs recruit thoughout the 7 years like Kobe, Howard and wade do for their teams.

Sly Guy
12-27-2010, 01:08 PM
i kinda thought Bosh was going to come to Dallas and play

there was a lot of talk in toronto about this too. But Dallas ended up with a better lineup without him. Dirk>>>>>Bosh anyway.

Rivera
12-27-2010, 01:38 PM
u can say UD has a "similar skill set" but u can say that abt a lot of people....john salmons has a similar skill set to a 32 year old kobe bryant but no1 is gonna mistake john salmons for kobe bryant.....ryan anderson and YI has a similar skill set to dirk both r tall can shoot and put the ball on the floor....but ryan anderson or YI is no where near the level of a dirk....fact is UD couldnt touch rodman on UDs best day and rodmans worse day....UD is a helpful piece to win a chip hes a good player......compare UD more to a PJ Brown than a dennis rodman....thats a more realisitic comparison

godolphins
12-27-2010, 02:19 PM
Knew that in the summer

Wade>You
12-27-2010, 02:27 PM
Hate to admit, bt i have to agree. They all signed the same contracts in terms of the years. That should've given it away.If they signed the same contracts, then they must've discussed the possibility of playing together before signing those contracts, i.e. as free agents. There's absolutely nothing wrong with discussing playing for other teams or with other players when you're a free agent.

People are just reaching for anything to destroy them and tear down their image.

Keep reaching.

SteBO
12-27-2010, 02:29 PM
If they signed the same contracts, then they must've discussed the possibility of playing together before signing those contracts, i.e. as free agents. There's absolutely nothing wrong with discussing playing for other teams or with other players when you're a free agent.

People are just reaching for anything to destroy them and tear down their image.

Keep reaching.


I'm trying to do any of that. I'm a heat fan and I do agree. I don't see anything wrong with it either. :)

OUbigdaddy
12-27-2010, 02:59 PM
I think we can all agree that there was colusion going on between these three players. The NBA needs to step in and do something so this sort of thing can not happen again.

dunedinjays
12-27-2010, 03:03 PM
I think we can all agree that there was colusion going on between these three players. The NBA needs to step in and do something so this sort of thing can not happen again.

Yup, take away their cellphones and computers so they cant talk to one another:rolleyes:

dunedinjays
12-27-2010, 03:08 PM
Its pretty obvious that they considered the possibility of playing together. You think they just all decided to randomly choose 3 years with options?

OUbigdaddy
12-27-2010, 03:12 PM
Yup, take away their cellphones and computers so they cant talk to one another:rolleyes:

I know you can not stop them from talking, but lhow can anyone think this was not orchestrated by Pat Riley? They said they started talking about it at the Olympics. If this is normal buisness then a rule should be made that rewards the team that loses the free agent. Maybee the team that signs multiple type A free agents have to give up draft picks to the other team. are you will have teams continue to do this and other teams being irrelavent. At least in baseball when the high doller teams sign up all the top tier free agents they have to give up draft picks.

OUbigdaddy
12-27-2010, 03:15 PM
Its pretty obvious that they considered the possibility of playing together. You think they just all decided to randomly choose 3 years with options?

I know they did. I'm just saying that in the NFL when players try to "recruit" other players does the team not get punished for player tampering? Thats one of the many reasons the NBA will never be on par with the NFL or the MLB.

DeyAce
12-27-2010, 03:17 PM
Knew that in the summer

This. Old News

ichitownclowni
12-27-2010, 03:18 PM
Nothing to see here...Bosh was never going to go to cle.

Are you Chris Bosh?

Tony_Starks
12-27-2010, 03:25 PM
Damn fool he was. In cleveland they could've got a chip. Bron, Bosh, Shaq, and Mo Williams surrounded by shooters could've got it done.....

SteBO
12-27-2010, 03:29 PM
Damn fool he was. In cleveland they could've got a chip. Bron, Bosh, Shaq, and Mo Williams surrounded by shooters could've got it done.....

No way that team wins anything

pd1dish
12-27-2010, 03:29 PM
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/la-sp-heisler-kobe-lebron-20101225,0,6478984.column

living in columbus, oh i heard a lot of different rumors. this was one of them and there were a lot of local sources covering it. this is why i was so puzzled when cleveland fans turned on lebron because it was obvious that lebron was going to leave if cleveland couldnt bring in another big time player. cleveland fans are just so ignorant that they dont realize that the top players in the league dont want to play in cleveland.

lebron tried to bring in other players, but the fact is that they refused to go there. if cleveland fans should be blaming anyone it should be the front office. your owner is insane and since that letter written to lebron, what star player is EVER going to want to play there now until someone else owns the team.

time and time again, lebron tried recruiting players and the front office failed to get it done. its time for cleveland fans to get over lebron. it makes sense to be disappointed, but to hold a grudge like he had a life long contract with the cavs is just as insane as the cavs' owner.

Dade County
12-27-2010, 03:31 PM
I think we can all agree that there was colusion going on between these three players. The NBA needs to step in and do something so this sort of thing can not happen again.

Like what?

A free agent can sign anywhere he wants.......... anything else is forcing players to do what you or the league want.

Yes, I do believe that they talked about playing with each other; SO what!
It will happen again, don't blame Miami, blame NBA history and a watered down league.

If players are trying to force their teams to orchestrate cretin trades, (that would create these super teams) then the league should step in, and start banning players/teams.

Once again, these guys were FREE agents............ stop :cry: :cry: :cry:

Dade County
12-27-2010, 03:35 PM
living in columbus, oh i heard a lot of different rumors. this was one of them and there were a lot of local sources covering it. this is why i was so puzzled when cleveland fans turned on lebron because it was obvious that lebron was going to leave if cleveland couldnt bring in another big time player. cleveland fans are just so ignorant that they dont realize that the top players in the league dont want to play in cleveland.

lebron tried to bring in other players, but the fact is that they refused to go there. if cleveland fans should be blaming anyone it should be the front office. your owner is insane and since that letter written to lebron, what star player is EVER going to want to play there now until someone else owns the team.

time and time again, lebron tried recruiting players and the front office failed to get it done. its time for cleveland fans to get over lebron. it makes sense to be disappointed, but to hold a grudge like he had a life long contract with the cavs is just as insane as the cavs' owner.

Preach it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :clap::clap::clap: and another :clap::clap::clap:

OUbigdaddy
12-27-2010, 03:36 PM
Like what?

A free agent can sign anywhere he wants.......... anything else is forcing players to do what you or the league want.

Yes, I do believe that they talked about playing with each other; SO what!
It will happen again, don't blame Miami, blame NBA history and a watered down league.

If players are trying to force their teams to orchestrate cretin trades, (that would create these super teams) then the league should step in, and start banning players/teams.

Once again, these guys were FREE agents............ stop :cry: :cry: :cry:

I'm not crying, just saying. Besides my Mavs are 2-0 against the mighty trifecta anyways. As a matter of fact who have the Heat beat?

SteBO
12-27-2010, 03:39 PM
I'm not crying, just saying. Besides my Mavs are 2-0 against the mighty trifecta anyways. As a matter of fact who have the Heat beat?

@ Lakers
Hornets
Hawks
@ Knicks
Magic
@Utah, and a couple more I don't remember

OUbigdaddy
12-27-2010, 03:40 PM
living in columbus, oh i heard a lot of different rumors. this was one of them and there were a lot of local sources covering it. this is why i was so puzzled when cleveland fans turned on lebron because it was obvious that lebron was going to leave if cleveland couldnt bring in another big time player. cleveland fans are just so ignorant that they dont realize that the top players in the league dont want to play in cleveland.

lebron tried to bring in other players, but the fact is that they refused to go there. if cleveland fans should be blaming anyone it should be the front office. your owner is insane and since that letter written to lebron, what star player is EVER going to want to play there now until someone else owns the team.

time and time again, lebron tried recruiting players and the front office failed to get it done. its time for cleveland fans to get over lebron. it makes sense to be disappointed, but to hold a grudge like he had a life long contract with the cavs is just as insane as the cavs' owner.

Your wrong. It's not that hne tried to recruit other players to the Cav's The other players would not commit to come to Cleveland because Labron would not commit to staying with the Cav's.:facepalm:

Tony_Starks
12-27-2010, 03:40 PM
No way that team wins anything


How you figure? W/o Bosh they were good enough to push Boston. With him it would've took pressure off Lebron and allowed guys like Williams, Parker and Gibson to shoot wide open spot ups as opposed to trying to create off the dribble which they can't do.

You really don't think Bosh is good enough to put that squad over the top?

OUbigdaddy
12-27-2010, 03:43 PM
@ Lakers
Hornets
Hawks
@ Knicks
Magic
@Utah, and a couple more I don't remember.

Keep hating, for it makes you look ignorant and uninformed

Really? They lost to the Celtics twice, Mav's twice, Hornets, Magic, Utah. The Lakers are a struggling team right now. So you get your facts straight. The Heat have beat up on inferior teams. :facepalm:

SteBO
12-27-2010, 03:46 PM
How you figure? W/o Bosh they were good enough to push Boston. With him it would've took pressure off Lebron and allowed guys like Williams, Parker and Gibson to shoot wide open spot ups as opposed to trying to create off the dribble which they can't do.

You really don't think Bosh is good enough to put that squad over the top?

Maybe i went overboard, bt i'm jus not sure. Bosh would be good for them, no doubt. But my question would be everone else. Mo Williams hasn't proven to be consistent when it matters, Antawn Jamison's old already and so is Shaq. I jus think they'd need a makeover and get guys like Mike Miller and Brendan Haywood and get rid of Jamison and Mo Williams. Unfortunately they couldn't do that because they had no flexibility and noone wanted their contracts via sign and trade, so it was near impossible to do.

Dade County
12-27-2010, 03:47 PM
I'm not crying, just saying. Besides my Mavs are 2-0 against the mighty trifecta anyways. As a matter of fact who have the Heat beat?

Come on man, for real............ You respond with " I'm not crying, just saying"

And then you go off into this:
"Besides my Mavs are 2-0 against the mighty trifecta anyways. As a matter of fact who have the Heat beat"

Thats not even in the discussion........... man you are out of words and reason, thats why you responded the way you did. But I'm not mad at you, try better next time. :facepalm:

NYtilIdie
12-27-2010, 03:48 PM
I cud say the say the same about you, though you're clearly not a heat fan. What have those role players proven to me over two years?

Well the problem is they were being used as 2nd options which they are not.

Sorry but Mo Willams, Anderson Varejao, Antawn Jamison, etc. based on the way they've been playing over Dwyane is laughable.

[/B]Thats expected when the best player in basketball leaves your team[/B]

Role players don't win you championships, stars do. Lakers won last year. Why? Because they have the most stars. Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol are stars, and you can make an argument for Lamar Odom the way he's playing this year.

3-Peat Lakers and 2004 Pistons dis-agree.


Bron, Bosh and those ROLE :rolleyes: players against this Lakers team now are not winning anything.

And this current Heat team isn't beating the C's, who are the real team they should be worrying about, not the Lakers.

Sorry, but that's reality. Role players are created by SUPERSTARS. That's the way the NBA has always been. BTW, Haslem and Miller, heck even James Jones and House aren't scrubs.

You pretty stated the obvious here with the role players part, but James and House are scrubs. Jones rarely played last year and House is about as one-dimensional as they get. Jones is only recieving PT because the bench is weak and House is getting garbage time, he hasn't played since the 18th.

Jones is shooting 45% from three this year and House ain't great, bt he's got a ring to prove he's a good building block on a campionship team.

Having Bosh, Wade, and Lebron on your team will do that for you. Hos a good building block? :laugh2: House hardly played in the C's championship run, he got mostly garbage time.

Haslem's no different from Andy and Miller's got a skill set that even LeBron and Wade don't even have.

Varejao is better defensively then Haslem, but Haslem is the better player and Miller is really no different then Mo since all they're really good for is 3pt shooting.

Give me a break already bro. Look in a mirror bro before you call out heat fans for not being knowledgable about the game, okay. :clap:

.

SteBO
12-27-2010, 03:49 PM
Really? They lost to the Celtics twice, Mav's twice, Hornets, Magic, Utah. The Lakers are a struggling team right now. So you get your facts straight. The Heat have beat up on inferior teams. :facepalm:

They also beat the hornets, magic, and Jazz and who cares if the Lakers are struggling. You have to play the games and we outplayed them. YOU GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT. BTW, we don't make the schedule and the Celtics beat us twice when had no identity.

Tony_Starks
12-27-2010, 03:52 PM
Maybe i went overboard, bt i'm jus not sure. Bosh would be good for them, no doubt. But my question would be everone else. Mo Williams hasn't proven to be consistent when it matters, Antawn Jamison's old already and so is Shaq. I jus think they'd need a makeover and get guys like Mike Miller and Brendan Haywood and get rid of Jamison and Mo Williams. Unfortunately they couldn't do that because they had no flexibility and noone wanted their contracts via sign and trade, so it was near impossible to do.


I hear you. I think they could've pulled it off though. Shaq actually was very effecient against the Celtics but since they played him straight up his damage was minimal. To me the main deal was once Lebron got hurt and stopped driving to the rack it left the Mo Williams of the world to have to create off the dribble. Bosh could've solved that problem just by posting up and kicking out. And Im sure his D on KG would've been better than Jamisons which was a complete joke.

WITZ
12-27-2010, 03:57 PM
Just more proof that this whole Heat scenario was premeditated & Bosh said in a article a while back before the season started that he and James never discussed him in Cleveland, Idiot ruined James smokescreen that he actually tried to get him here when in fact he was lying.But it's time to move on already can't change what's happened already.

ink
12-27-2010, 03:58 PM
Let's talk about the thread topic -- whether Bosh was going to go to Cleveland. Please do not bait each other by accusing each other of hating or being ignorant. If we can't have a civil discussion on this topic, the thread will be closed.

ATX
12-27-2010, 04:00 PM
Really? They lost to the Celtics twice, Mav's twice, Hornets, Magic, Utah. The Lakers are a struggling team right now. So you get your facts straight. The Heat have beat up on inferior teams. :facepalm:

The Heat are what they are. A 23-9 team who have lost to Bos twice, Mavs twice, and a few other games. These losses came at the outset of the season when the team was still figuring out how it was going to work. I'll admitt freely that Boston and Dallas were the better team, but the season is long. They also have beaten some pretty good teams in NY, UT, LA, NO, OR...They are an elite NBA team, and to say otherwise is just well :facepalm: You are saying that they have beat up on inferior teams like thats a bad thing. They have been destroying the inferior teams, and that's what just happened to LA. Are you saying LA is an inferior team? The facts are right there, there's nothing to get straight.

Edit: Sorry for getting off topic, as any thread involving Miami turns.

SteBO
12-27-2010, 04:02 PM
.

NYtilIdie, House got significant playing time during the C's championship run, even bailed Boston out in a couple of playoff games, shows how much you know.

This current Heat team can beat anybody including Boston in a seven game series. When you have players of this caliber, anything is possible in the NBA and let's not forget their age, though I doubt it plays much of a factor.

Players that shoot 45% from three aren't scrubs. Apparently you have no clue what a scrub means. There's a reason they're in the NBA and you and I aren't buddy. Just sayin.

I'll give you 2004 Detroit Pistons, bt three-peat lakers. When you play with Kobe and prime shaquille o'neal, anyone can win with them.

ink
12-27-2010, 04:03 PM
What does any of that have to do with Bosh going to the Cavaliers?? That is the thread topic.

OUbigdaddy
12-27-2010, 04:03 PM
The Heat are what they are. A 23-9 team who have lost to Bos twice, Mavs twice, and a few other games. These losses came at the outset of the season when the team was still figuring out how it was going to work. I'll admitt freely that Boston and Dallas were the better team, but the season is long. They also have beaten some pretty good teams in NY, UT, LA, NO, OR...They are an elite NBA team, and to say otherwise is just well :facepalm: You are saying that they have beat up on inferior teams like thats a bad thing. They have been destroying the inferior teams, and that's what just happened to LA. Are you saying LA is an inferior team? The facts are right there, there's nothing to get straight.

Your right. The season has just really begun anyways. Who knows what will happen in April or May. :clap:

SteBO
12-27-2010, 04:05 PM
I hear you. I think they could've pulled it off though. Shaq actually was very effecient against the Celtics but since they played him straight up his damage was minimal. To me the main deal was once Lebron got hurt and stopped driving to the rack it left the Mo Williams of the world to have to create off the dribble. Bosh could've solved that problem just by posting up and kicking out. And Im sure his D on KG would've been better than Jamisons which was a complete joke.

Yeah, Jamison on KG was laughable. He got whatever he wanted against Antawn. It always helps to have another go-to guy in the post that can drive by his guy. I still kinda thought LeBron tanked it in Game 6.

SteBO
12-27-2010, 04:07 PM
Your right. The season has just really begun anyways. Who knows what will happen in April or May. :clap:

Agreed. I apologize for my rudeness. :)

OUbigdaddy
12-27-2010, 04:08 PM
And I do as well. :clap:

ATX
12-27-2010, 04:18 PM
who cares about bosh close the thread

Brings a lot to the discussion. Thanks!

Bosh didn't want to go to Cleveland...Would anyone? I'm not trying to hate on Cleveland, but it's pretty obvious if given the choice, FA's would choose elsewhere. It's not like being on the Heat isn't working out for him.

NYtilIdie
12-27-2010, 04:20 PM
NYtilIdie, House got significant playing time during the C's championship run, even bailed Boston out in a couple of playoff games, shows how much you know.

Oh, so you baiting to prove you point. Mmmmmkay well actually House only played in 2 meaningful games in the Finals shooting 25% on 2-8 shooting (lost) and 40% on 2-5 shooting (won), but he didn't "bail" them out on that game, Ray Ray, KG, and Pierce steped it up after halftime. Boston played an 8 man rotation that Finals run, Powe, Brown, Posey and Cassell, on a bad night House saw playing time.


This current Heat team can beat anybody including Boston in a seven game series. When you have players of this caliber, anything is possible in the NBA and let's not forget their age, though I doubt it plays much of a factor.

They've already lost twice to them this season, Boston just has too much depth for MIA.

Players that shoot 45% from three aren't scrubs. Apparently you have no clue what a scrub means. There's a reason they're in the NBA and you and I aren't buddy. Just sayin.

Obviously :rolleyes: He's a good 3pt shooter, but what else is he good at? He's not that much better then House. They're both one-dimensional which is why they're scrubs. Just sayin'

I'll give you 2004 Detroit Pistons, bt three-peat lakers. When you play with Kobe and prime shaquille o'neal, anyone can win with them.

So in todays NBA, couldn't the same be said about Bosh and Lebron?



.

pd1dish
12-27-2010, 04:29 PM
Your wrong. It's not that hne tried to recruit other players to the Cav's The other players would not commit to come to Cleveland because Labron would not commit to staying with the Cav's.:facepalm:

that is completely false. why do you think lebron signed a 3 year extension after being there for 4 years? it was because he was giving cleveland a chance to bring in someone else that could ultimately make them champions. the best they could do was a big fat center past his prime (shaq) and an overrated forward who apparently didnt fit in well with the cavs (antawn jamison).

also, if lebron was just going to up and leave, why did he try to convince bosh and cp3 to go there? if he could have brought these guys to cleveland, do you really think he would have left? no....because cleveland had role players in place. they just needed a sidekick for lebron and jamison wasnt cutting it.

the bottom line is that cleveland just isnt a preferred destination for big time players. when was the last time you heard rumors of an all star wanting to be traded to cleveland? its always going to be the big, popular cities. carmelo has had rumors of going to NY, NJ, and Chicago. amare went to NY...lebron had rumors of NY, Chicago, Miami, NJ and ultimately signed with miami...bosh with Miami and Chicago, signed with miami...wade with Miami and Chicago and obviously went with miami. CP3 who has had rumors of being traded to NY. not one of these players were ever rumored of WANTING to go to cleveland.

knicks4life33
12-27-2010, 04:32 PM
pretty much before free agency they already had it planned out that bosh wade and lebron were goin to miami thats that

SteBO
12-27-2010, 04:35 PM
.

I said playoff games, not Finals games and who cares if we lost to them twice in November. We had no identity or cohesion then, so we'll see how it goes February 13th, our next meeting with Boston.

Dade County
12-27-2010, 06:05 PM
that is completely false. why do you think lebron signed a 3 year extension after being there for 4 years? it was because he was giving cleveland a chance to bring in someone else that could ultimately make them champions. the best they could do was a big fat center past his prime (shaq) and an overrated forward who apparently didnt fit in well with the cavs (antawn jamison).

also, if lebron was just going to up and leave, why did he try to convince bosh and cp3 to go there? if he could have brought these guys to cleveland, do you really think he would have left? no....because cleveland had role players in place. they just needed a sidekick for lebron and jamison wasnt cutting it.

the bottom line is that cleveland just isnt a preferred destination for big time players. when was the last time you heard rumors of an all star wanting to be traded to cleveland? its always going to be the big, popular cities. carmelo has had rumors of going to NY, NJ, and Chicago. amare went to NY...lebron had rumors of NY, Chicago, Miami, NJ and ultimately signed with miami...bosh with Miami and Chicago, signed with miami...wade with Miami and Chicago and obviously went with miami. CP3 who has had rumors of being traded to NY. not one of these players were ever rumored of WANTING to go to cleveland.

Damn!!! Who are you?!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:


pretty much before free agency they already had it planned out that bosh wade and lebron were goin to miami thats that

You Know it ........ :D

lol I am joking

SwaggaIke
12-28-2010, 03:20 AM
I'm sorry but Bosh on Cleveland would result in the same scenario for LeBron. A playoff bouncing by the Magic or Celtics. Mo Williams is a perennial choker & we saw Jamison go out w/ a 4 & 4 game when it matters most. Role players contribute to ships but STARS BUYING INTO WINNING CONCEPTS win them. Having 3 stars keeps constant pressure on a defense & it's just something that you can't discount.

beasted86
12-28-2010, 03:31 AM
Bron in Cleveland adding Bosh would be better than Miami.

:facepalm:

xxcubs22xx
12-28-2010, 04:25 PM
Bosh said on espn mike and mike that he didn't know if lebron was gonna stay which is the reason he turned it down.

This.

Flash3
12-28-2010, 04:48 PM
Let's not please turn this thread into bashing of the city of Cleveland.