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View Full Version : Should passes leading to made FTs count as assists?



DenButsu
12-26-2010, 10:04 PM
Watching the Sixers-Nuggets game right now, Iggy just made a great feed through traffic to Meeks in the lane, who missed his layup but was fouled and made both of his free throws. It was a textbook example of a case where, if there was no "assist", there would have been no points scored. Yet, Iguodala of course will not be credited with that as an assist on the score sheet.

Should the NBA change this practice, and start counting these as assists? I certainly think so.

Also, what other "official" kept stats should be added or changed? Charges taken would seem to me to be a no-brainer.

arkanian215
12-26-2010, 11:44 PM
Someone somewhere has a database of that already but yeah the league needs to put some emphasis on keeping tabs on that stuff. It might not be in the league's best interest to do that though since they're going to promote the game to the average fan. The average fan doesn't know about rebounding percentages, etc. ESPN easily has the resources to do this.

Wade>You
12-27-2010, 08:34 AM
They shouldn't count as assists, but I think they should be kept track of, as well as many other stats such as every player who touched the ball on the play getting credit for being a part of the made basket.

haggis
12-28-2010, 04:35 PM
They shouldn't count as assists, but I think they should be kept track of, as well as many other stats such as every player who touched the ball on the play getting credit for being a part of the made basket.

like in hockey where the 2 previous players who influenced the puck get credited with the assist? not bad...


Den-
Quick question though, would you have to count "partial" assists? Like if said player goes 1 for 2 from the line would you get .5 assist? Or if they miss both FTs are you not credited with the assist? Or are you saying that the fact that the pass lead to the player going to the line, that alone should be counted as an assist?

KnicksorBust
12-28-2010, 08:42 PM
This truly is a lost statistic. At this point you can't just add it in to "assists" though because so many greats would be at a disadvantage. I like the idea of adding it in some form though. I'd love to see if there are any changes in the top 5 between assists per game and assists to free throws per game.

Chronz
12-28-2010, 08:56 PM
I really wish the NBA would just pay someone to go back and track all of this, I would do it at a modest salary.

Callem Helpers or Dimes, that way Marbury doesnt look so crazy when he talks about how many assists and dimes hes had

Chronz
12-28-2010, 09:00 PM
like in hockey where the 2 previous players who influenced the puck get credited with the assist? not bad...


Den-
Quick question though, would you have to count "partial" assists? Like if said player goes 1 for 2 from the line would you get .5 assist? Or if they miss both FTs are you not credited with the assist? Or are you saying that the fact that the pass lead to the player going to the line, that alone should be counted as an assist?

Potential assists should be tracked and the act of creating a free throw for your teammate would fall under that category

Assists should remain as they always have, its only fair to the history of the game. That doesnt mean you cant make Effective/Adjusted Ast or something, like 3pts are worth 1.5 Assist, FT's = .5, it would basically be the amount of pts a players passes led to in assist terms.

Durant is hype
12-29-2010, 08:41 PM
Someone somewhere has a database of that already but yeah the league needs to put some emphasis on keeping tabs on that stuff. It might not be in the league's best interest to do that though since they're going to promote the game to the average fan. The average fan doesn't know about rebounding percentages, etc. ESPN easily has the resources to do this.

End Thread!

Baller1
12-30-2010, 02:15 PM
Potential assists should be tracked and the act of creating a free throw for your teammate would fall under that category

Assists should remain as they always have, its only fair to the history of the game. That doesnt mean you cant make Effective/Adjusted Ast or something, like 3pts are worth 1.5 Assist, FT's = .5, it would basically be the amount of pts a players passes led to in assist terms.

This is what I was thinking, I like this idea. So if the player made both free throws, you think it should be considered a full assist, correct?

kozelkid
12-30-2010, 11:02 PM
Potential assists should be tracked and the act of creating a free throw for your teammate would fall under that category

Assists should remain as they always have, its only fair to the history of the game. That doesnt mean you cant make Effective/Adjusted Ast or something, like 3pts are worth 1.5 Assist, FT's = .5, it would basically be the amount of pts a players passes led to in assist terms.

I like that, I like that a lot.

Ovratd1up
01-04-2011, 02:56 AM
Love this idea.

PatsSoxKnicks
01-04-2011, 05:56 PM
Does anyone know what happened with Dan Rosenbaum's potential assists estimate?


I think the reason we generally only count assists and not all potential assists is that we don't know the number of potential assists. But I think we can estimate the number of potential assists.

potential assists = assists * (0.5 * points / field goals made) / teammates' true shooting percentage

The second term (0.5 * points / field goals made) scales up the assists to include free throws and three pointers. Since it takes more passes to generate an assist on a three pointer, it is only fair to allow the assist to count more. It would be better with this formula to take out the free throw points due to non-shooting fouls. (Perhaps this could be done in some sort of average sense using the data that Ed provided for us.)

The third term in essence counts the potential assists where the shot was missed. A true shooting percentage of 50 percent would imply that it takes two potential assists to generate an assist. Ideally this term would use the teammates' true shooting percentage on attempts after potential assists, although presently we do not have the data to calculate that.


http://sonicscentral.com/apbrmetrics/viewtopic.php?t=68&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Also,

http://www.82games.com/assisted.htm


Potential Assist: A pass that leads directly to a possession event (shot, foul, turnover).

It doesn't appear Rosenbaum's estimate takes into account TOs.


Potential assists should be tracked and the act of creating a free throw for your teammate would fall under that category

Assists should remain as they always have, its only fair to the history of the game. That doesnt mean you cant make Effective/Adjusted Ast or something, like 3pts are worth 1.5 Assist, FT's = .5, it would basically be the amount of pts a players passes led to in assist terms.

Like Tom Haberstroh's weighted assists?

http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/03/10/nba-hd-adjusting-how-we-measure-and-view-assists/

Although obviously this still doesn't take into account assists leading to FTs. I don't think anyone keeps track of that so thats obviously a problem.

Ovratd1up
01-04-2011, 10:50 PM
Like Tom Haberstroh's weighted assists?

Looks like the eFG% of assists. Now we have to wait for the TS%.

PatsSoxKnicks
01-04-2011, 11:45 PM
Looks like the eFG% of assists. Now we have to wait for the TS%.

Similar but more complicated. His weighted assists uses the expected FG% (or league average FG% * points) at different shot locations (the shot locs at hoopdata.com).

Ovratd1up
01-05-2011, 12:30 AM
Similar but more complicated. His weighted assists uses the expected FG% (or league average FG% * points) at different shot locations (the shot locs at hoopdata.com).

Ah, that's one that I've wondered about for a while (can't access link at work). It's great that this is available, seems like the only things left to take into account are free throws and openness (unless this too exists).