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View Full Version : Shaq never improved from day 1 as a rookie!



cooters22
12-20-2010, 09:02 AM
First off I have a ton of respect for Shaq and actually became a huge fan of his since his rift with Kobe. I saw him play as a rookie and thought this guy is unreal and wow he is only going to get better and bettter and better. I mean he is just 20 years old or so and left college early. So at this point in time I'm thinking he undoubtedly will leave the game as the greatest center of all time. Once he practices a ten foot jump shot, sinks his free throws with some consistancy, dribbling ball control, maybe learns a hook like Kareem, wow, nobody will ever be able to stop this guy. And he without a doubt will be talked about as the greatest center of all time. Fast forward 15 years and he never did any of those things for improvement. Had an incredible career, but seriously not as good as I think it could have been. He just plain bullied his whole life, and a touch of finesse could have put him up with the greats of Kareem or Wilt, etc. He shot 59% as a rookie from the free throw line, and only shot better than that only once, ONCE. Its not like he didn't have plenty of time to practice, he had a career low of 42% in a season with the Heat. Thats a ton of points in his life that he just gave away. Listening to other so-called experts in the league, Shaq actually digressed as a rebounder in his career. He tended to get lazy and never worked on positioning, but relied on his brute strength. Experts I've heard say that this guy should have averaged 15-20 rebounds a game if he would have worked on his positioning and boxing out. Once again his best rebounding season was his rookie year at 13.9 a game. After seeing this guy play 10, 12 years after seeing him as a rook, I remember having a talk with the 3 other guys that I went to the game with and they all agreed that if Shaq would have done anything offensively for his game and rebounding then he could have been a 40-20 or 40-15 type guy easily. I'm not saying Shaq never played hard because he did, but I'm wondering what this guy did during practice or better yet if he ever did anything on his own?

Hawkeye15
12-20-2010, 09:06 AM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01.html

well, he didn't get a lot better after year 2 actually. But he was already at the totally elite level for the next 12 seasons. So it doesn't really matter.

ewing
12-20-2010, 09:18 AM
First off I have a ton of respect for Shaq and actually became a huge fan of his since his rift with Kobe. I saw him play as a rookie and thought this guy is unreal and wow he is only going to get better and bettter and better. I mean he is just 20 years old or so and left college early. So at this point in time I'm thinking he undoubtedly will leave the game as the greatest center of all time. Once he practices a ten foot jump shot, sinks his free throws with some consistancy, dribbling ball control, maybe learns a hook like Kareem, wow, nobody will ever be able to stop this guy. And he without a doubt will be talked about as the greatest center of all time. Fast forward 15 years and he never did any of those things for improvement. Had an incredible career, but seriously not as good as I think it could have been. He just plain bullied his whole life, and a touch of finesse could have put him up with the greats of Kareem or Wilt, etc. He shot 59% as a rookie from the free throw line, and only shot better than that only once, ONCE. Its not like he didn't have plenty of time to practice, he had a career low of 42% in a season with the Heat. Thats a ton of points in his life that he just gave away. Listening to other so-called experts in the league, Shaq actually digressed as a rebounder in his career. He tended to get lazy and never worked on positioning, but relied on his brute strength. Experts I've heard say that this guy should have averaged 15-20 rebounds a game if he would have worked on his positioning and boxing out. Once again his best rebounding season was his rookie year at 13.9 a game. After seeing this guy play 10, 12 years after seeing him as a rook, I remember having a talk with the 3 other guys that I went to the game with and they all agreed that if Shaq would have done anything offensively for his game and rebounding then he could have been a 40-20 or 40-15 type guy easily. I'm not saying Shaq never played hard because he did, but I'm wondering what this guy did during practice or better yet if he ever did anything on his own?

I disagree. He added the short turn around bank shot, became a better passer, and a smarter player

Teeboy1487
12-20-2010, 09:19 AM
Shaq is a Hall of Famer and a top 5 center of all time but his poor work ethic in the past is what is going to keep him from being the best center of all time. Honestly, it does not matter. Shaq's legacy is pretty much legendary. It's too bad he had such poor work ethic. It could have been even greater.

ESaady
12-20-2010, 09:29 AM
I was actually just looking at this yesterday. I looked up his stats and thought the same exact thing.

I think he improved other facets of his game. However, I agree with you in that he could have been a lot better at rebounding. I don't get how you can free throw so poorly either.

Shaq still is and will remain as one of the best to play the game.

xbrackattackx
12-20-2010, 09:37 AM
Shaq is a Hall of Famer and a top 5 center of all time but his poor work ethic in the past is what is going to keep him from being the best center of all time. Honestly, it does not matter. Shaq's legacy is pretty much legendary. It's too bad he had such poor work ethic. It could have been even greater.

10-15 years from now people will only remember Shaq was a Beast and Had a "great" personality, No one will remember him being Lazy, or Kobe and Shaq fued. Just like with Jordan.. I hated him beating my Lakers and He was Cocky and Arrogant but the dude is still the GOAT and that's all they remember.


I think Shaq is a once in a life player and wish he would have had His talent with Jordan's Drive and Determination.

cooters22
12-20-2010, 10:06 AM
Shaq is a Hall of Famer and a top 5 center of all time but his poor work ethic in the past is what is going to keep him from being the best center of all time. Honestly, it does not matter. Shaq's legacy is pretty much legendary. It's too bad he had such poor work ethic. It could have been even greater.

Thank you, this is what I was trying to say. I loved Shaq, others saying he was an elite player from day 1 and never had room for improvement are just delirius. Even Hakeem added Kareems sky hook to his resume. I don't really think he added a backup bank shot as much as he just couldn't back into and bully his way in with his butt as he once did. Yes, he probably did become a smarter player, but becoming smarter isn't necessarily from practice but more because of just plain age and naturalism.

cooters22
12-20-2010, 10:19 AM
I was actually just looking at this yesterday. I looked up his stats and thought the same exact thing.

I think he improved other facets of his game. However, I agree with you in that he could have been a lot better at rebounding. I don't get how you can free throw so poorly either.

Shaq still is and will remain as one of the best to play the game.

This guy never scored more than 30 ppg. in a season. Comparing his stats to say Hakeem because Hakeem learned a nice hook during his career, which he himself credited to him not only staying in the league longer, but becoming a better offensive presence. Hakeem averaged 20.6 ppg. and 11.9 rg. as a rook and continued to get better and ended up with career highs at 27.8 ppg. and 14.0 rg. in his 11th nba season. So he just continued to get better. I'm not comparing the two as who is greater, but just comparing the two to show that Hakeem continually got better during his career and Shaq simply didn't. Hakeem shot 61 and 64% from the ft line his firts two years, well and his numbers at the line continued to get better almost every year until he had a personal best 79% from the ft line in his 13th year, so he never gave up trying to become a better ft shooter.

alencp3
12-20-2010, 10:29 AM
You expecter more than top 10 player of all time, most dominant center ever
What did you expected from him, to be the GOAT?

WeBallin
12-20-2010, 10:42 AM
In Shaqs defense, what work ethic did he need, if he was UNSTOPPABLE, I mean what could he have worked on, I never seen the guy taken out of guy due to him bein super tired, u can say he could have worked on his free throws but heck even Wilt was bad shooter from the line, an my final thought is that Shaq also played with some Very special talent in his prime etc( Early Penny Hardaway, Nick Andersen,not great but still was a hell of a plyer, an Kobe, Ron Harper, Horry,) If Shaq put up 30 in a game it was almost Certain they won/ with addition to his other stats, but just his Strength an Quick feet, an Size mad him unstoppable , NO BIG IN THER PRIME would have been able to stop Shaq in his PERIOD!!!!!!

KTheo77
12-20-2010, 11:01 AM
He worked hard on his ego. It has gotten bigger every year.

Teeboy1487
12-20-2010, 11:08 AM
10-15 years from now people will only remember Shaq was a Beast and Had a "great" personality, No one will remember him being Lazy, or Kobe and Shaq fued. Just like with Jordan.. I hated him beating my Lakers and He was Cocky and Arrogant but the dude is still the GOAT and that's all they remember.


I think Shaq is a once in a life player and wish he would have had His talent with Jordan's Drive and Determination.
I'm not accounting for personality traits. I'm talking about Shaq's legacy as the best. Right now, Shaq is barely a top 3-5 center of all time and probably only a top 10 player of all time (I'm not saying this is bad). Shaq relied on his superior size and strength to score like the op eluded to. He never sharpened his skills which would have prolonged his prime years. He never wanted to become an even greater unstoppable force and sure up the few limitations he had.

Shaq settled imo. He did not go that extra mile like Jordan did. Shaq lacked the drive and motivation to be the best. Jordan's goal was to be the best and only the best. That's why he is the GOAT.

No question Shaq has cemented his legacy as probably the most dominate center in this era. What I'm saying is, he could have and should have had an even better legacy than he has now. However, it's not a big deal because Shaq is an all time great. I just wish he had a better attitude in his younger days.

Hawkeye15
12-20-2010, 11:10 AM
I see where some of you are coming from, as far as his work ethic, and the fact that he may not have added in the offseason what others do, which is another move, etc. But the fact is, by year 2, Shaq was the most dominant force in the NBA. He was already elite. There isn't a ton of growing when you throw up 29-13-3 on ridiculous efficiency at age 21.

pacofunk64
12-20-2010, 11:29 AM
I was actually just looking at this yesterday. I looked up his stats and thought the same exact thing.

I think he improved other facets of his game. However, I agree with you in that he could have been a lot better at rebounding. I don't get how you can free throw so poorly either.Shaq still is and will remain as one of the best to play the game.

Take a softball and try to shoot free throws with it. Then you'll see how difficult it was for him.

sep11ie
12-20-2010, 11:32 AM
He worked hard on his ego. It has gotten bigger every year.

I can think of 3 other players just like that...

macc
12-20-2010, 11:41 AM
Shaq has always been dominate no doubt, but I do agree, if he had the work ethic like a Dwight Howard, Shaq would be in the argument of not only the greatest center of all time but the greatest period.

cooters22
12-20-2010, 11:46 AM
You expecter more than top 10 player of all time, most dominant center ever
What did you expected from him, to be the GOAT?

I expect him, like anybody else to continually try and better there game. Ok, he is a top 10 player of all time, but maybe he could have been in the conversation of the greatest player or center of all time. In all reality in his early years he didn't need to add much to his game, except his free throw shooting. But in later years a 10 foot jump shot or sky hook would have been deadly.

Double_R
12-20-2010, 11:54 AM
I don't think that you can say Shaq never improved because he did significantly, but I do think you can say that he is one of the biggest underachievers ever(even with 4 rings) because of his poor work ethic, attitude, and ego. When you don't have surgery in the offseason because you don't want to miss your summer and say that if you get hurt on company time you will heal on company time, that speaks volumes to me.

JayW_1023
12-20-2010, 11:59 AM
Look at how Shaq plays in his prime contra Dwight Howard these days. Shaq is known for his power game, but he had great finesse skills too. He has a vast array of post moves and could finish with a soft touch on either hand. he could pass and see the floor. He could even handle the ball a little. For a guy his size, his spin moves has unreal quickness. He became a more skilled player without a doubt.

Give the guy his due.

Bornknick73
12-20-2010, 12:01 PM
First off I have a ton of respect for Shaq and actually became a huge fan of his since his rift with Kobe. I saw him play as a rookie and thought this guy is unreal and wow he is only going to get better and bettter and better. I mean he is just 20 years old or so and left college early. So at this point in time I'm thinking he undoubtedly will leave the game as the greatest center of all time. Once he practices a ten foot jump shot, sinks his free throws with some consistancy, dribbling ball control, maybe learns a hook like Kareem, wow, nobody will ever be able to stop this guy. And he without a doubt will be talked about as the greatest center of all time. Fast forward 15 years and he never did any of those things for improvement. Had an incredible career, but seriously not as good as I think it could have been. He just plain bullied his whole life, and a touch of finesse could have put him up with the greats of Kareem or Wilt, etc. He shot 59% as a rookie from the free throw line, and only shot better than that only once, ONCE. Its not like he didn't have plenty of time to practice, he had a career low of 42% in a season with the Heat. Thats a ton of points in his life that he just gave away. Listening to other so-called experts in the league, Shaq actually digressed as a rebounder in his career. He tended to get lazy and never worked on positioning, but relied on his brute strength. Experts I've heard say that this guy should have averaged 15-20 rebounds a game if he would have worked on his positioning and boxing out. Once again his best rebounding season was his rookie year at 13.9 a game. After seeing this guy play 10, 12 years after seeing him as a rook, I remember having a talk with the 3 other guys that I went to the game with and they all agreed that if Shaq would have done anything offensively for his game and rebounding then he could have been a 40-20 or 40-15 type guy easily. I'm not saying Shaq never played hard because he did, but I'm wondering what this guy did during practice or better yet if he ever did anything on his own?

What really hasnt improved since high school is your writing style....

Paragraphs my man.....Paragraphs!

cooters22
12-20-2010, 12:03 PM
I once read that every off season Larry Bird would check his present game out and see what his biggest weakness was. He'd work so hard on that one thing during the off season. Then would come back the following season and that no longer would be his biggest weakness. Then the following season, he'd pick his newest weakness and do the same thing all over again. The article I read stated that he wanted to work one season on clearly dribbling with his left hand, he then mastered that, dribbling as good with his left as his right. Then the following off season after that he took his left handed dribbling to use and wanted to be able to drive to his left on a more consistant basis, so he practice his whole off season on that. What I'm saying is that Shaq never wanted to strive to be better. He clearly stunk at free throw shooting early on in his career and instead of getting better actually got worse. His poor free throw shooting probably cost him 10 points a game, which is a ton and yes probably cost his teams a lot of games over the years. I'm not saying that Shaq was ever going to lead the team in free throw shooting, But Hakeem added 10 to 18 % during his career from his first two seasons.

cooters22
12-20-2010, 12:05 PM
Look at how Shaq plays in his prime contra Dwight Howard these days. Shaq is known for his power game, but he had great finesse skills too. He has a vast array of post moves and could finish with a soft touch on either hand. he could pass and see the floor. He could even handle the ball a little. For a guy his size, his spin moves has unreal quickness. He became a more skilled player without a doubt.

Give the guy his due.

Seriously disagree. I just don't see the finesse that you are talking about. What little he has is pathetic.

cooters22
12-20-2010, 12:07 PM
What really hasnt improved since high school is your writing style....

Paragraphs my man.....Paragraphs!

This isn't a college paper I'm writing. F ur paragraphs, maybe you being a jgabag since hs hasn't changed either.

Fmaranesi
12-20-2010, 12:17 PM
He could have been the best player ever if he had a better work ethic

JayW_1023
12-20-2010, 12:19 PM
Seriously disagree. I just don't see the finesse that you are talking about. What little he has is pathetic.

Dude have you even watched Shaq in his prime. He was not only too strong to guard, but against most bigs too quick as well.

JordansBulls
12-20-2010, 12:20 PM
He did get better simply because as a rookie he was not even a top 5 player in the league and then years later he was for at least 3 years.

Bornknick73
12-20-2010, 12:24 PM
damn Coot im just busting your chops man.....relax a bit brother. Ouch

walls of text hurt the eyes.

Ishkabibble
12-20-2010, 12:26 PM
Hakeem learned a hook? When?

I'm a lifelong Houstonian and Rockets season ticket holder and as far as "developing" a hook shot...that never happened for Olajuwon.
Dream might've thrown a handful of them up during his career but at no time was a hook a consistent part of his offensive game.

mlisica19
12-20-2010, 12:30 PM
There was really no need for this guy to improve or change his game rather than more FT consistancy. He tried, but guess not enough.

From what i saw his ball control def improved, his down low game also became so much better. He learned to dish the ball out to the 3 point line and he learned to be a better defender.

I saw a slight improvement in all the above though throughout the years. He did not need to do a hook, u couldn stop him. U could only limit him

thekmp211
12-20-2010, 12:38 PM
I see where some of you are coming from, as far as his work ethic, and the fact that he may not have added in the offseason what others do, which is another move, etc. But the fact is, by year 2, Shaq was the most dominant force in the NBA. He was already elite. There isn't a ton of growing when you throw up 29-13-3 on ridiculous efficiency at age 21.

this. evolution is a product of necessity and shaq never needed to change his game all that much. if your goal is effective play, who cares if his game never got as diversified as it maybe should have? he's arguably the most dominant player at his position of all time.

kjoke
12-20-2010, 12:41 PM
Take a softball and try to shoot free throws with it. Then you'll see how difficult it was for him.

give me 30 years of my life, and id make ever single one

cooters22
12-20-2010, 01:04 PM
He did get better simply because as a rookie he was not even a top 5 player in the league and then years later he was for at least 3 years.

Thats simply not true, he was voted as a starter to the All Star Game in his rookie year. He had his best rebounding year EVER as a rookie, and after his second year his numbers actually went down, never got better. He was a top 5 player day 1 he got into the league and hasn't been top 5 probably since he left the Lakers, which was awhile ago already.

Hawkeye15
12-20-2010, 01:09 PM
Thats simply not true, he was voted as a starter to the All Star Game in his rookie year. He had his best rebounding year EVER as a rookie, and after his second year his numbers actually went down, never got better. He was a top 5 player day 1 he got into the league and hasn't been top 5 probably since he left the Lakers, which was awhile ago already.

his offensive efficiency did indeed climb quite a bit though.
Look, we all know what you are saying. He was elite the second he stepped into an NBA game. But he wasn't the best player in the NBA his first few years. Not until 1999-2002 was he the best player in the NBA. That in itself is improvement.
Could Shaq have been better than he was? Maybe, with enough practice, and taking nutrition seriously. But will he still be a top 10 player of all time? Yep. So its just tough to nitpick him at this point.

cooters22
12-20-2010, 01:38 PM
Hakeem learned a hook? When?

I'm a lifelong Houstonian and Rockets season ticket holder and as far as "developing" a hook shot...that never happened for Olajuwon.
Dream might've thrown a handful of them up during his career but at no time was a hook a consistent part of his offensive game.

I'm calling bs! The dream without a doubt had a hook shot, maybe not as conventional as Kareems, but his jump hook in the lane along with baseline fadeaway and spins were his best moves. And of course his dream shake. I guess I'd advise you to do some googling and check it out.

Catoblepas
12-20-2010, 02:04 PM
in shaqs prime no one could stand toe to toe w/him...maybe if someone else stepped up then he would have tried to improve more..but as far as free throws go...he makes them when they count..lol so he says

RaiderLakersA's
12-20-2010, 02:14 PM
So at this point in time I'm thinking he undoubtedly will leave the game as the greatest center of all time.

I disagree. Top 5 yes, but not THE greatest center of all time. A shame, really, because I remember when he came into the league, and I thought for sure that he would be the best of all time without question.

Chronz
12-20-2010, 02:44 PM
LMFAO when you start throwing out #'s like 40-20 you lose all credibility, could he have done more with his talent? Sure, ANY PLAYER IN NBA HISTORY COULD HAVE. Hakeem took so long to improve offensively so mentioning him here is pretty ironic.



I once read that every off season Larry Bird would check his present game out and see what his biggest weakness was. He'd work so hard on that one thing during the off season. Then would come back the following season and that no longer would be his biggest weakness. Then the following season, he'd pick his newest weakness and do the same thing all over again. The article I read stated that he wanted to work one season on clearly dribbling with his left hand, he then mastered that, dribbling as good with his left as his right. Then the following off season after that he took his left handed dribbling to use and wanted to be able to drive to his left on a more consistant basis, so he practice his whole off season on that. What I'm saying is that Shaq never wanted to strive to be better. He clearly stunk at free throw shooting early on in his career and instead of getting better actually got worse. His poor free throw shooting probably cost him 10 points a game, which is a ton and yes probably cost his teams a lot of games over the years. I'm not saying that Shaq was ever going to lead the team in free throw shooting, But Hakeem added 10 to 18 % during his career from his first two seasons.
LOL Bird didnt seriously work on his body until around 28 or so, no matter the player there is an area of the game he didnt work on.

Chronz
12-20-2010, 02:46 PM
This guy never scored more than 30 ppg. in a season. Comparing his stats to say Hakeem because Hakeem learned a nice hook during his career, which he himself credited to him not only staying in the league longer, but becoming a better offensive presence. Hakeem averaged 20.6 ppg. and 11.9 rg. as a rook and continued to get better and ended up with career highs at 27.8 ppg. and 14.0 rg. in his 11th nba season. So he just continued to get better. I'm not comparing the two as who is greater, but just comparing the two to show that Hakeem continually got better during his career and Shaq simply didn't. Hakeem shot 61 and 64% from the ft line his firts two years, well and his numbers at the line continued to get better almost every year until he had a personal best 79% from the ft line in his 13th year, so he never gave up trying to become a better ft shooter.
Shaq mastered the art of passing much more quickly than Dream, he focused on his power game and developed his body to withstand punishment in the paint. 2 different styles of play means players expend their energy focusing on different aspects.

Shaq worked on his free throws, just like Wilt and Russ did, they just werent good shooters. Had they worked harder on their shooting it could have taken away from their games in other areas, so you see, what you THINK they should have become is irrelevant, the ONLY thing that matters is the IMPACT they had.

hotpotato1092
12-20-2010, 02:59 PM
Do I agree that Shaq could have been a lot better? Yes, specifically when it came to his fitness regimen. But that's not to say he didn't improve, he's still an all time great.

smith&wesson
12-20-2010, 03:01 PM
what makes you think that shaq didnt practic or work on his free throws ?

do you realize how big shaqs hands are ? shaq shooting a basket ball in a net 15 feet away is like you or i trying to shoot a tennis ball in a mug 15 feet away, i dont care how much you practice, your never gonna be great at it.

FadeAwayLikeMJ
12-20-2010, 03:03 PM
He worked hard on his ego. It has gotten bigger every year.

haha, thank you, i got a nice lil giggle out of that. i needed it, work sucks today...

anyway, i think this would be Shaq's answer...

"who needs to improve when you already ***** on every other Center in the league???"

JasonJohnHorn
12-20-2010, 03:08 PM
Shaq did improve his passing a lot, and watchign him pass out of double-teams in L.A. was pretty nice, and his offence did improve, though was never quite what it could have been.

I see what you mean though, and agree. Shaq never took his condition as seriously as guys like Kareem, Hakeem, Mutumbo and Karl Malone, all guys who busted their @$$E$ off on the weights and at cardio in the offseason. And he never really developed the smooth pivot moves or mid range jumpers that made guys like Hakeem and Kareem so great. Had he been able to do that, he likely would have been the most dominant big ever, but even when it came to things like rebounding, it seemed like his numbers started dropping much earlier than they should have and to me as a fan, it just seemed like he was never as hungry as a guy like KG, or Karl Malone.

Shaq is a top ten center easily, but in my book will never rank among the top five (Chamberlain, Russell, Kareem, Hakeem and Robinson are my top five C's and I dont see that changing anytime soon).

It is a shame, because if he had the drive of Jordan, Garnett or Malone, he would have destroyed the league.

cooters22
12-20-2010, 03:08 PM
I disagree, but have always thought Shaq was the sexiest center in the league. Who wouldn't want him. Something about those sexy shorts he wears in Boston drive me nuts wild! But I always preferred Danny Ferry, and not just because of his name.

You wanna play games, I'll change your quote and play games as well.

kswissdaf
12-20-2010, 03:10 PM
I hate people who say this crap. Its impossible to get into the nba or even a
D-1 college scholarship without being an extremely hard worker

cooters22
12-20-2010, 03:19 PM
what makes you think that shaq didnt practic or work on his free throws ?

do you realize how big shaqs hands are ? shaq shooting a basket ball in a net 15 feet away is like you or i trying to shoot a tennis ball in a mug 15 feet away, i dont care how much you practice, your never gonna be great at it.

I have a friend that lost his arm, had a stub left and ended up getting a hook put on the end of his stub. He couldn't use his arms for crap, and he enjoyed shooting darts. And after a couple years of practice he could shoot darts or shoot pool pretty dang good. Better by far as he could before hand. Granted he lost his job because of disability, but he had time. So does a pro bb player. So with his time he practiced. So don't tell me about practice. If Shaq had wanted to shoot better at ft's he would have. Maybe he did learn to be a better passer, but I will guarantee you that he probably didn't spend 15 minutes a day on ft's once he got into the league.

Bornknick73
12-20-2010, 03:48 PM
I think a better question would be...

Whats with the hate on Shaq Daddy?

Hes no where near what he used to be and is a year from being out of the league so why the hate now? Who cares about his free throws

The man dominated every C in the league at one point or another. Put Shaq on a squad in the 50s-60s like Chamberlain or Russell and he becomes the GOAT of Cs.

Chamberlain and Russell were over rated because they played at a time when everyone else was barely 6ft tall. They were giants playing against short white boys in even shorter shorts (say that 10 times fast)

Now thats stat inflation. The modern day players like Shaq competed against a even playing field and he dominated them all. So he couldnt hit a FT for his life, so what! He still has 4 rings and is working on a 5th. Leave the Diesel alone.

RaiderLakersA's
12-20-2010, 04:56 PM
You wanna play games, I'll change your quote and play games as well.

I didn't change anyone's quote. I took a snippet of the entire thing, but the sentence was unaltered.

Moving on...

Chronz
12-20-2010, 05:01 PM
I think a better question would be...

Whats with the hate on Shaq Daddy?

Hes no where near what he used to be and is a year from being out of the league so why the hate now? Who cares about his free throws

The man dominated every C in the league at one point or another. Put Shaq on a squad in the 50s-60s like Chamberlain or Russell and he becomes the GOAT of Cs.

Chamberlain and Russell were over rated because they played at a time when everyone else was barely 6ft tall. They were giants playing against short white boys in even shorter shorts (say that 10 times fast)

Now thats stat inflation. The modern day players like Shaq competed against a even playing field and he dominated them all. So he couldnt hit a FT for his life, so what! He still has 4 rings and is working on a 5th. Leave the Diesel alone.
Tone down on the hate for the early NBA, its not as bad as your trying to portray.

Shaq is easily better than Wilt-Russ but its not because they played in a lesser league, but because Shaq was a greater player PERIOD

ESaady
12-20-2010, 07:59 PM
Take a softball and try to shoot free throws with it. Then you'll see how difficult it was for him.

Then every single big man would struggle with shooting free throws. Kareem shot 72.1%, Hakeem shot 71.2%. Those guys are arguably better than Shaq and they shot well.

Tony_Starks
12-20-2010, 08:03 PM
I remember once somebody was riding Shaq about developing different moves and whatnot and he basically said his Dad told him "until they can stop you, keep doing what you're doing." And thats pretty much been his approach to the game. During his hayday he was pretty much the most dominant force the NBA ever seen. Completely unstoppable. Made the NBA go to a zone defense to stop him, unstoppable.

As Laker fans we always wished he had Kobe's work ethic but at the same time he was bringing championships so its like hey oh well!

AddiX
12-20-2010, 08:23 PM
No offense, but you younger NBA fans say some of the most ignorant things about NBA I've ever seen.

The first job of a Center is to intimidate the paint and rebound. That's it. Russell won 11 rings doing that. When it came to those things, he was the best ever.

As far as Shaq goes, he is one of the most dominating players in the NBA and he most definitely got better as his career went by. He is considered the dominating player ever, and you think he didn't work hard.:facepalm:

eibbor
12-20-2010, 08:25 PM
Why do the mods leave this in the NBA forum, along with useless ads and fighting and remove actual news like ppl coming off injury. LOL what a joke.

MTar786
12-20-2010, 08:38 PM
IMO shaq could have been the best player ever. better than mj for sure. but he will now have to settle for top 810 ever imo.
most dominate center ever? yes
best center ever? arguable.

MTar786
12-20-2010, 08:38 PM
IMO shaq could have been the best player ever. better than mj for sure. but he will now have to settle for top 8-10 ever imo.
most dominate center ever? yes
best center ever? arguable.

Hangtime
12-20-2010, 08:41 PM
The only problem I had with Shaq was for a guy this big and strong he should have been one of the greatest rebounders to play the game hands down. Not once did he lead the NBA in rebounding. But I don't really knock him for that because he still had an outstanding career. I don't think he ever played on teams that reqiured him to put up 30 plus point career scoring avgs because of the gifted players he played with. He was always a part of a one two punch with Penny Kobe and those loaded Laker teams and then Wade as his career winded down. Could he have gotten better in certain areas, of course, but he really did what those particular teams he played with needed him to.

newenglandking
12-20-2010, 08:47 PM
Shaq rules loved him in Freddie got fingered

cooters22
12-20-2010, 08:52 PM
I remember once somebody was riding Shaq about developing different moves and whatnot and he basically said his Dad told him "until they can stop you, keep doing what you're doing." And thats pretty much been his approach to the game. During his hayday he was pretty much the most dominant force the NBA ever seen. Completely unstoppable. Made the NBA go to a zone defense to stop him, unstoppable.

As Laker fans we always wished he had Kobe's work ethic but at the same time he was bringing championships so its like hey oh well!

Ok, if thats the case then ten years ago Shaq should have come up with some moves. Once again, I'm not hating the guy. I actually loved watching the guy. But like I've stated earlier, if he could have developed some shots, added say 10% to his ft's or whatever, maybe he could have been on more championship squads or had 40-20 type numbers, instead of 25-10.

Hangtime
12-20-2010, 08:58 PM
Ok, if thats the case then ten years ago Shaq should have come up with some moves. Once again, I'm not hating the guy. I actually loved watching the guy. But like I've stated earlier, if he could have developed some shots, added say 10% to his ft's or whatever, maybe he could have been on more championship squads or had 40-20 type numbers, instead of 25-10.

Yeah he should have more rebounds. This guy is approaching the same number of years played like Kareem Abdul Jabbar and he is like 13th on the alltime rebounding list. Head scratcher for a guy this dominant.

cooters22
12-20-2010, 09:03 PM
No offense, but you younger NBA fans say some of the most ignorant things about NBA I've ever seen.

The first job of a Center is to intimidate the paint and rebound. That's it. Russell won 11 rings doing that. When it came to those things, he was the best ever.

As far as Shaq goes, he is one of the most dominating players in the NBA and he most definitely got better as his career went by. He is considered the dominating player ever, and you think he didn't work hard.:facepalm:

Do yourself a favor and look his stats up. His numbers indicate that he didn't get better as time went on. Actually his best rebounding season was his rookie season, which tells me he didn't get any better, matter of fact might have gotten worse in some areas.

AddiX
12-20-2010, 09:08 PM
Do yourself a favor and look his stats up. His numbers indicate that he didn't get better as time went on. Actually his best rebounding season was his rookie season, which tells me he didn't get any better, matter of fact might have gotten worse in some areas.

There is a lot of things that stats won't show you. One day you'll understand sports and what your watching enough not to rely on them.

As a pitt fan I would think you of all people would understand that.

Troy's stats could never show his effect on the playing field. One of the best players in league history, you would never know JUST by looking at stats.

topdog
12-20-2010, 09:20 PM
Take a softball and try to shoot free throws with it. Then you'll see how difficult it was for him.

I was waiting for someone to bring this up (okay "scrolling"). This is a complete myth and an excuse for big men. It is easier to shoot with one hand because you don't have to use your guide hand. Believe me I have done this with regularity using a small ball on a full-size hoop.

Being able to shoot one-handed is easier from that range.

SensandRaps
12-20-2010, 10:06 PM
Do yourself a favor and look his stats up. His numbers indicate that he didn't get better as time went on. Actually his best rebounding season was his rookie season, which tells me he didn't get any better, matter of fact might have gotten worse in some areas.

stats dont mean everything. the only thing that is holding shaq back from being the best center in the league ever was his free throw percentage average. if he had hit around 70% on average he could have been the best ever

heatfan03
12-20-2010, 10:11 PM
wall of text
lrn to paragraph

jasonbird
12-20-2010, 10:38 PM
First off I have a ton of respect for Shaq and actually became a huge fan of his since his rift with Kobe. I saw him play as a rookie and thought this guy is unreal and wow he is only going to get better and bettter and better. I mean he is just 20 years old or so and left college early. So at this point in time I'm thinking he undoubtedly will leave the game as the greatest center of all time. Once he practices a ten foot jump shot, sinks his free throws with some consistancy, dribbling ball control, maybe learns a hook like Kareem, wow, nobody will ever be able to stop this guy. And he without a doubt will be talked about as the greatest center of all time. Fast forward 15 years and he never did any of those things for improvement. Had an incredible career, but seriously not as good as I think it could have been. He just plain bullied his whole life, and a touch of finesse could have put him up with the greats of Kareem or Wilt, etc. He shot 59% as a rookie from the free throw line, and only shot better than that only once, ONCE. Its not like he didn't have plenty of time to practice, he had a career low of 42% in a season with the Heat. Thats a ton of points in his life that he just gave away. Listening to other so-called experts in the league, Shaq actually digressed as a rebounder in his career. He tended to get lazy and never worked on positioning, but relied on his brute strength. Experts I've heard say that this guy should have averaged 15-20 rebounds a game if he would have worked on his positioning and boxing out. Once again his best rebounding season was his rookie year at 13.9 a game. After seeing this guy play 10, 12 years after seeing him as a rook, I remember having a talk with the 3 other guys that I went to the game with and they all agreed that if Shaq would have done anything offensively for his game and rebounding then he could have been a 40-20 or 40-15 type guy easily. I'm not saying Shaq never played hard because he did, but I'm wondering what this guy did during practice or better yet if he ever did anything on his own?

Thats why so many people love him....:clap::clap:

Raps18-19 Champ
12-21-2010, 12:07 AM
It's not his fault he was already a superstar coming into the league.

I mean you can't be great at everything.

He was already good at a lot of things and the only things he could have probably improved on is shooting the ball a little better but even then, he didn't even need to shoot the ball when he can power his way into the paint. He improved his range but obviously a player can only improve by so much. In his prime, the only thing you can Shaq on is his FT shooting.