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JordansBulls
12-18-2010, 05:02 PM
Are the Orlando Magic going to be a better team with the moves made?



Magic send Carter, Pietrus, Gortat and 3 million to Phoenix for Turk and Richardson.

Magic send Lewis to Washington for Arenas.

PG Arenas
SG Richardson
SF Turkoglu
PF Bass
Cc Howard

Bench: Jameer Nelson, Q.Rich, Reddick, Anderson, Allen, Duhon, J Williams, Earl Clark


Or were they better with Carter, Pietrus, Gortat?







Potential lineups:

Option a:
PG: Nelson/Duhon/JWill
SG: Arenas/Reddick
SF: Turkoglu/JRich/QRich
PF: Bass/Anderson/Clark
C: Howard/Orton

Pros: 2 great rebounders, 3 playmakers, instant scoring 6th man
Cons: small backcourt

Option b:
PG: Nelson/Duhon/JWill
SG: Arenas/Reddick
SF: JRich/QRich
PF: Turkoglu/Bass/Clark/Anderson
C: Howard/Orton

Pros: stretch floor with four 3pt shooters, more rebounding help for 2nd unit, 4 playmakers
Cons: small backcourt, weak bench

Option c:
PG: Arenas/Nelson/Duhon/JWill
SG: JRich/Reddick
SF: Turkoglu/QRich
PF: Bass/Clark/Anderson
C: Howard/Orton

Pros: traditional lineup, 3 playmakers and 2 good rebounders, solid pg on bench
Cons: nelson may not like taking a backseat, too many pgs

redsox0717
12-18-2010, 05:04 PM
They were better before IMO. Different =/= better.

It doesn't matter because they're not getting past Miami or Boston either way.

Hawkeye15
12-18-2010, 05:05 PM
probably going to be better.

dnewguy
12-18-2010, 05:06 PM
Bad team.....Just got below the Bulls.

saucy1
12-18-2010, 05:06 PM
man they gonna tear **** up golden state reunion with d howard

xxplayerxx23
12-18-2010, 05:07 PM
Imo better, I think they have a shot to get past orlando and heat

godolphins
12-18-2010, 05:08 PM
They got better but not better than the Heat or Celtics.

ko8e24
12-18-2010, 05:09 PM
They are way better. Now you have more consistent outside shooters in Turk and JRich, and a guy that with a new system, teammates, coach and organization, and city, will be back to the old agent 0 !

You also now have better playmaking and passing with Turk and Arenas, and you have a solid improving perimeter defender IMO in J-Rich.

Earl Clark...eh...not like Gortat or Pietrus did anything for Orlando last 2 yrs

xxplayerxx23
12-18-2010, 05:10 PM
Bad team.....Just got below the Bulls.

How Just got J rich instead of carter upgrade. Arenes will be better in orlando. Hedo coming off the bench. I think they got better. funny i think they are on the heat and celtics level

dnewguy
12-18-2010, 05:10 PM
For a team that is built around Howard, why would you get folks that will never pass the ball?

godolphins
12-18-2010, 05:13 PM
Scenario: Dwight Howard gets in foul trouble
Where's the depth?
All you got to do is attack Dwight

Westbrook36
12-18-2010, 05:13 PM
Hedo and Agent 0's contracts...:puke:

I suppose they will be better depending on what Gilbert is able to do with the wizards. It also depends on if Hedo is able to return to his old form when the offense was nearly run through him with the Magic.

tredigs
12-18-2010, 05:14 PM
There's more potential, but that's A LOT of retooling for a mid-season trade. It's going to take quite a while to incorporate that amount of high-volume shooters to a lineup cohesively. And I don't think it's something that can happen for a team that wants to contend over the course of one season.

Also, they have no depth in the post. This is a monumental issue for a team whose star player is often in foul trouble. If the Arenas deal is truly just a straight up Arenas for Rashard (as it seems like it will be), then I cannot figure out how this is going to work out for them.

Year 1: Far worse.
Year 2 after some continuity and an addition to the interior (Nelson could be some nice bait): Potentially far better.

They're desperation moves - and they may work - but it's probably going to take a lot of time, and they're going to have to find that big.

Sadds The Gr8
12-18-2010, 05:16 PM
im not sure. They aren't nearly as deep, and that was the one advantage they had over the elite teams. This lineup is pretty dangerous, but other elite teams can matchup with this lineup.

shyfly24
12-18-2010, 05:17 PM
So who is starting at point? Jameer or Gilbert? I see problems arising from this unless one of em is traded.

JermMyG
12-18-2010, 05:17 PM
For a team that is built around Howard, why would you get folks that will never pass the ball?


Hedo is a willing passer , and a good one at that.

J Rich does not demand the ball

what it all comes down to is how Arenas plays , I really think his whole attitude is going to change. Since he's come back from his injury he's improved his playmaking significantly , I'm sure he will be willing to pass , its a new start for him , he's in a position to win , his game will change.

static_inferno
12-18-2010, 05:18 PM
It'll seem like a lateral move at first, but in the long run this will make them better. I still think they aren't on par with Boston, however.

lakerboy
12-18-2010, 05:18 PM
I don't know why so many people are hating on their moves, especially the Heat fans. Orlando Magic can tear you guys apart, and I'm not kidding. This is a good team right here.

Enough of the arguments that they may never pass the ball. Turkoglu, Jameer Nelson and Arenas are all playmakers. They have Brandon Bass at PF, or can straight up play Hedo at the 4. They have enough shooters, and Jameer and JJ Hickson would probably have to sacrifice some shots, BUT THATS NOT EVEN GOING TO BE A PROBLEM.

tredigs
12-18-2010, 05:19 PM
Gilbert for Rashard was just confirmed, by the way.

Again, who is their backup big? Orlando is going to get blasted in the interior when Dwight is out... they need to figure this out.

Kashmir13579
12-18-2010, 05:19 PM
LMAO at people saying they will be worse. IMO, they haven't been the same team since the got rid of Hedo. they got him back PLUS arenas and Jrich... this team could easily break the record for most 3 pointers in a game.

I think they know they had to make some big moves if they want to compete with Miami.

kntresistheheat
12-18-2010, 05:20 PM
Poor nelson.....wow!!

shyfly24
12-18-2010, 05:21 PM
I don't know why so many people are hating on their moves, especially the Heat fans. Orlando Magic can tear you guys apart, and I'm not kidding. This is a good team right here.

Enough of the arguments that they may never pass the ball. Turkoglu, Jameer Nelson and Arenas are all playmakers. They have Brandon Bass at PF, or can straight up play Hedo at the 4. They have enough shooters, and Jameer and JJ Hickson would probably have to sacrifice some shots, BUT THATS NOT EVEN GOING TO BE A PROBLEM.

Isn't he on the cavs?

5ass
12-18-2010, 05:21 PM
we'll see...

5ass
12-18-2010, 05:22 PM
Isn't he on the cavs?

he meant JJ reddick

shep33
12-18-2010, 05:22 PM
Yes much better IMO... also I think Phoenix gets better in this trade as well.

Maybe Carter gets a grant hill rejuvenation in Phoenix, they also get a good big in Gortat and Pietrus.

goblazers7
12-18-2010, 05:23 PM
That's a lot of shooters on the bench. Not much defense. I like their trade moves as of
now

MagicBucsSox
12-18-2010, 05:23 PM
Bad team.....Just got below the Bulls.

HHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA how you figure? the same bulls they blew out by 30? Noah no rebounds? rose contained? like people need to realize there is now 3 new capable scorers surrounding an improved dwight...Dwight is the magic defense.

nelson hopefully is traded next

ink
12-18-2010, 05:23 PM
Better but not nearly as deep. You've also got a couple of headcases there in Arenas and Hedo so who knows. This is a gamber's move to make something happen because the team was mired at the same level for too long. Most people predicted the VC move would not pan out. Now we see whether Arenas will be any more of a solution.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
12-18-2010, 05:24 PM
Bad team.....Just got below the Bulls.

U scared?

Gators123
12-18-2010, 05:25 PM
I think its a lateral move. Maybe a little better.

D Roses Bulls
12-18-2010, 05:25 PM
This could go either way, be very very good for the magic or be horrible.

shep33
12-18-2010, 05:26 PM
How do people think orlando will get worse? Losing Gortat is their biggest loss in this trade IMO, but other than that, they basically get better at every position.

Jrich=better shooter than Carter, more athletic, can slash
Arenas=can go off, and he's gonna get wide open looks. Can create his own shot, something Orlando hasn't had since Turkoglu...
Turkoglu=read above statement... IMO his production will be at worst similar to Lewis' if not better.

MagicBucsSox
12-18-2010, 05:28 PM
and they still have pieces to move to get a backup center, nelson,jj,richardson,anderson etc

RadiantShot
12-18-2010, 05:29 PM
I think we'll be a bit better. What I'm questioning is where Gilbert's place on the team will be. He could either be a spark-plug for us off the bench, or he'll start over Nelson. I just don't see it so far, but I'm very excited for J-Rich, and the arrival of our old pal Hedo. They'll work well in the system. We'll just have to see what goes on.

blastmasta26
12-18-2010, 05:29 PM
Not sure, definitely more interesting though. One thing is avoiding selfish play and another is finding a suitable backup big. Hedo can move the ball, but how Arenas will fit in with Jameer and J Rich remains to be seen.

Dwight leads that defense, and as long as he stays aggressive, he will get in foul trouble occasionally. They don't need someone as good as Gortat to back up Dwight, but they need someone who can atleast step in and defend.

DRose7
12-18-2010, 05:29 PM
Magics just became 2nd Elite team in the East, Gilbert/Howard (considering Arenas is ready to enter beast mode again) is just as good a duo as James/Wade...Magics have a better line up now, Nelson,Howard, Gilbert, Hedo, Richardson. than MIAs Wade, James, Bosh, Arroyo, Joel

numba1CHANGsta
12-18-2010, 05:29 PM
wtf? What are the Magic doing! They give up their two most clutch players for two has beens (Turk and Arenas) who arent close to what they were before and J-Rich isnt much of an improvement of Carter pretty much the same player...horrible trade IMO, the Magic just got worse, expect things to get worse and expect Dwight Howard to leave the team come 2012 and possibly sooner...

The1ronHorse
12-18-2010, 05:30 PM
They are better fir sure j rich has got more to give at this stage then carter and lewis can be inconsistent compared to hedo which yu pretty much know what your getting on a nightly basis. Idg the acquisition of gil cuz jameer has been doing a good job this year. Idt that's really gonna work out well, I love gil an he's better then jameer but i think it's only one or the other. They need another big man or there gonna be some issues late in games when dwight is on his 5th foul lol

YoungOne
12-18-2010, 05:31 PM
They are way better. Now you have more consistent outside shooters in Turk and JRich, and a guy that with a new system, teammates, coach and organization, and city, will be back to the old agent 0 !

You also now have better playmaking and passing with Turk and Arenas, and you have a solid improving perimeter defender IMO in J-Rich.

Earl Clark...eh...not like Gortat or Pietrus did anything for Orlando last 2 yrs

they will miss them both!

JWO35
12-18-2010, 05:32 PM
Orlando Magic > Those other teams in the East

DRose7
12-18-2010, 05:32 PM
Not sure, definitely more interesting though. One thing is avoiding selfish play and another is finding a suitable backup big. Hedo can move the ball, but how Arenas will fit in with Jameer and J Rich remains to be seen.

Dwight leads that defense, and as long as he stays aggressive, he will get in foul trouble occasionally. They don't need someone as good as Gortat to back up Dwight, but they need someone who can atleast step in and defend.

Brandon Bass is still on the team...

homestarunner93
12-18-2010, 05:32 PM
Why do people assume Arenas will be better in Orlando? He's going to have to play SG or be the sixth man, starting him over Nelson kills the chemistry.

JB0B0
12-18-2010, 05:33 PM
They're a lot better, imo. Their starting lineup should be Arenas, J-Rich, Turk, Bass, Howard.

lakersrnumber1
12-18-2010, 05:34 PM
wow some one needs 2 b fired in orlando this is the trade that will send d. howard out of orlando. First off orlando gave away 2 much players in both trades j.richard and vince will put up the same numbers hedo has fallin off the last 2 years and u gave away pietrus and gorant lol preaty dumb move by the magic. now the gilbert trade is not bad but with gilbert u will never know lewis had 2 go but like i said its a wait and see what happens with gilbert so it doesnt make them better right way. If they were goin 2 move all thes players they should have jus package lewis, gorant and pietrus for melo it would have made alot more sense

shep33
12-18-2010, 05:34 PM
They should keep Nelson for now... Just incase Gilbert gets injured again.

shyfly24
12-18-2010, 05:36 PM
Why do people assume Arenas will be better in Orlando? He's going to have to play SG or be the sixth man, starting him over Nelson kills the chemistry.

What chemistry? They pretty much traded 1/2 there team!

PAOboston
12-18-2010, 05:36 PM
i think they got worse. big time. they lose a lot of depth in gortat and pietrus. that's you defense and rebounding when howard is out (gortat) and your best wing defender and a spot up 3 pt shooter (pietrus).

and add.....gilbert arenas and his monstrosity of a contarct??? they already have a score-first pg in nelson. why add another? and who's plays pf now? bass?

j rich isnt a bad player but if you didnt want to give hedo all that money in the beginning, it doesnt make much sense to trade for him after he got that crazy money somewhere else.

i dunno. i think the magic made a bad move. if anything trading for hedo and j rich and keeping lewis would make slightly more sense.

Gators123
12-18-2010, 05:36 PM
I can't wait to see them play

macc
12-18-2010, 05:37 PM
Hopefully it makes us better. Only time will tell I guess.


The key question is did we address our needs?

Main need was the lack of a peremeter scorer. Now we have J Rich (19.3 ppg on 47% shooting) and Gilbert Arenas (18 ppg on meh 39% shooting).


Carter, though much more efficient this year has disappeared in many big games for us this year and seems to get injured in them as well. I don't see his role being hard to fill in.

The key as stated before me is our front court. I think our depth is just fine. Behind Howard we have Orton (unpolished rookie) and that's about it. I see us trading one of our 4 pg's for a decent big.

As of right now because of the fact we got more playmakers and scorers that it makes us better. Though the argument can be made about our front court.

We'll see what happens. Overall I'm happy with the trades.

tredigs
12-18-2010, 05:38 PM
Brandon Bass is still on the team...

Brandon Bass is a 6'8" power forward. That's not exactly going to be the containment they need at Center when Dwight is out with foul trouble and they're trying to shut down KG/Shaq/Perkins/Davis. Their only other realistic option is Daniel Orton... who was a non-productive backup center even in college. He's not NBA ready by a long shot.

At this juncture, I really think they are significantly worse. But I have a feeling that Q Richardson + Jameer are about to be moved to try to shore up their invisible depth at C. This is not a top 5 defensive team at this point.

More exciting, though!

Slimsim
12-18-2010, 05:38 PM
PG arenas
Sg Richardson
SF Hedo
PF Bass
C Howard

6th man
Nelson
Anderson

BALLER R
12-18-2010, 05:38 PM
jus need one solid big man coming off the bench to help out howard and then there gonna be rolling

fingerbang
12-18-2010, 05:38 PM
Why do people assume Arenas will be better in Orlando? He's going to have to play SG or be the sixth man, starting him over Nelson kills the chemistry.

I think he's better off at SG anyway. I really like these moves for Orlando.

Teeboy1487
12-18-2010, 05:39 PM
They are better on the perimeter but took a slight hit defensively losing Gortat. I'm with Tredigs though. A move this big in the middle of the season is pretty risky. It will take time for them to gel which remains to be seen. How far they get in the playoffs will determine whether this trade worked or not but I can't yet say they are better than the Celtics and Heat. They definitely need a back up big to replace Gortat.

RadiantShot
12-18-2010, 05:39 PM
wtf? What are the Magic doing! They give up their two most clutch players for two has beens (Turk and Arenas) who arent close to what they were before and J-Rich isnt much of an improvement of Carter pretty much the same player...horrible trade IMO, the Magic just got worse, expect things to get worse and expect Dwight Howard to leave the team come 2012 and possibly sooner...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKrcLWSvNrA
You lose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3Uq5Ib8U78
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPpo0NyBeLA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDexf_BdrnE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0C2_gcbH3o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCtcDAZd4qg&feature=channel
You lose again.

macc
12-18-2010, 05:40 PM
Why do people assume Arenas will be better in Orlando? He's going to have to play SG or be the sixth man, starting him over Nelson kills the chemistry.



I don't think starting one over the other is going to kill any chemistry because we basically have a brand new starting 5, so the chemistry needs to occur in the first place before someone can kill it.

DRose7
12-18-2010, 05:40 PM
wow some one needs 2 b fired in orlando this is the trade that will send d. howard out of orlando. First off orlando gave away 2 much players in both trades j.richard and vince will put up the same numbers hedo has fallin off the last 2 years and u gave away pietrus and gorant lol preaty dumb move by the magic. now the gilbert trade is not bad but with gilbert u will never know lewis had 2 go but like i said its a wait and see what happens with gilbert so it doesnt make them better right way. If they were goin 2 move all thes players they should have jus package lewis, gorant and pietrus for melo it would have made alot more sense

Wasnt going to happen, Melo wouldnt sign any extension, unless it with the knicks, so Magic would have only had him for half a season...its a dope trade already idk what your hating on it for...Hedo>Vince, JRich>Vince, Gilbert>Vince....Hedo>Peitrus, JRich>Pietrus, Gilbert>Pietrus...Hedo>Gortat, JRich>Gortat, Gilbert>Gortat....they did lose size, with Gortat, but its not to much of a big deal, he wasnt that good of a player anyway

greek miami hea
12-18-2010, 05:41 PM
Magics just became 2nd Elite team in the East, Gilbert/Howard (considering Arenas is ready to enter beast mode again) is just as good a duo as James/Wade...Magics have a better line up now, Nelson,Howard, Gilbert, Hedo, Richardson. than MIAs Wade, James, Bosh, Arroyo, Joel

lol..wade,bosh,lebron>magic

greek miami hea
12-18-2010, 05:41 PM
i think they got worse. big time. they lose a lot of depth in gortat and pietrus. that's you defense and rebounding when howard is out (gortat) and your best wing defender and a spot up 3 pt shooter (pietrus).

and add.....gilbert arenas and his monstrosity of a contarct??? they already have a score-first pg in nelson. why add another? and who's plays pf now? bass?

j rich isnt a bad player but if you didnt want to give hedo all that money in the beginning, it doesnt make much sense to trade for him after he got that crazy money somewhere else.

i dunno. i think the magic made a bad move. if anything trading for hedo and j rich and keeping lewis would make slightly more sense.

this..kala ta eipes sumpatriwth

shep33
12-18-2010, 05:41 PM
Orlando's biggest problem against the Celts last year, was that they didn't have anybody to create for themselves, outside of maybe Nelson at times... maybe. Now with Arenas, Jrich, and Turk... all 3 can do that, and all 3 can shoot just as well if not better than Lewis, Carter, and Pietrus.

samevans7
12-18-2010, 05:41 PM
Imo better, I think they have a shot to get past orlando and heat

:facepalm:

Avenged
12-18-2010, 05:42 PM
I'm not sold at the Arenas trade at all.. I'm 50/50 on the Hedo move, it all depends if he can play the way he did when he was first with them. But I like the Richardson move a lot. Pretty much a swap for VC.

RadiantShot
12-18-2010, 05:43 PM
Honestly, the only thing that concerns me at this point...Is...Our bigs. Boston will eat us alive if we don't fill the void.

PAOboston
12-18-2010, 05:44 PM
this..kala ta eipes sumpatriwth

haha. ta lew opws ta vlepw. den htane kalh kinish gia tous magic. i dont think it's a good move. unless of course they got something else planned....

Khalifa21
12-18-2010, 05:45 PM
Initially, I think the team may suffer. In the long run they could be better.. They've added more fire power and VC and Lewis weren't doing a whole lot for them.

The only problem I see is you add three guys that all take the ball away from Dwight.

I'm not sure how the rotation is gonna work out but I assume someone who isn't used to coming off the bench will have to now...

PG: Jameer Nelson
SG: Gilbert Arenas
SF: Hedo Turkoglu
PF: Brandon Bass
C: Dwight Howard

6th man: Jason Richardson

That's nice... But I think Jameer would be a nice second unit leader.

PG: Gilbert Arenas
SG: Jason Richardson
SF: Hedo Turkoglu
PF: Brandon Bass
C: Dwight Howard

6th man: Jameer Nelson

Will be really interesting to see how SVG handles the minutes and starters/bench players.

fingerbang
12-18-2010, 05:46 PM
Wasnt going to happen, Melo wouldnt sign any extension, unless it with the knicks, so Magic would have only had him for half a season...its a dope trade already idk what your hating on it for...Hedo>Vince, JRich>Vince, Gilbert>Vince....Hedo>Peitrus, JRich>Pietrus, Gilbert>Pietrus...Hedo>Gortat, JRich>Gortat, Gilbert>Gortat....they did lose size, with Gortat, but its not to much of a big deal, he wasnt that good of a player anyway

Exactly. They just need to make 1 more move to add some mediocre depth at center. Their front court is good by default with with Dwight. This trade might not make them better than Boston or LA but that would be asking for too much anyway. This is trade rape.

The Claw
12-18-2010, 05:46 PM
With Pietrus gone...who will be the designated defender for LBJ or Paul Pierce, I guess Hedo...thats not good.

DRose7
12-18-2010, 05:47 PM
Brandon Bass is a 6'8" power forward. That's not exactly going to be the containment they need at Center when Dwight is out with foul trouble and they're trying to shut down KG/Shaq/Perkins/Davis. Their only other realistic option is Daniel Orton... who was a non-productive backup center even in college. He's not NBA ready by a long shot.

At this juncture, I really think they are significantly worse. But I have a feeling that Q Richardson + Jameer are about to be moved to try to shore up their invisible depth at C. This is not a top 5 defensive team at this point.

More exciting, though!

Yeah thats true, i forgot Bass started, but even when he was with the Mavs he played a betta center than Gortat lol...they def not top 5 defense team, but still good enough to beat MIA...they have a good perimeter squad, not to mention Dwight will destroy em in the paint... lmao who would they get in return for this Nelsoon and Jrich...what dope center, cuz all of them are staying put :cool: so are Nels and Jrich

RadiantShot
12-18-2010, 05:47 PM
Hey...At least I got an autograph, and my dad got a picture from Pietrus at the hookah bar before he departed. :shrug:

THE MTL
12-18-2010, 05:48 PM
They def added more star power but iono if its good for chemistry and depth. I still believe they got better but not by that much

THE MTL
12-18-2010, 05:49 PM
Btw, with these trades....TRADING SEASON has officially begun! Its always that first big trade that starts off the countdown to the deadline.

Avenged
12-18-2010, 05:49 PM
Will we be seeing the "we'll see come June ;)" now that Radi's back? :laugh2:

AddiX
12-18-2010, 05:50 PM
I think it makes the Magic a better team, but I'm still amazed anyone wants Arenas, and the way Orlando wants to play I'm still not sure Arenas can play in a team system, and with his loss in speed he isn't taking over games the one he once did.

Orl needed a trade, but this is a pretty major move.

RadiantShot
12-18-2010, 05:51 PM
Avenged. This guy. I can't believe you still remember that. Haha. I was so confident. I got shut down so bad last season. ;)

ElMarroAfamado
12-18-2010, 05:51 PM
They were better before IMO. Different =/= better.

It doesn't matter because they're not getting past Miami or Boston either way.

Miami?
:facepalm:
I would be surprised if the Heat make it passed the first round of the playoffs but with that said this has to be one of the most exciting trades in recent memory

ElMarroAfamado
12-18-2010, 05:53 PM
Jason Richardson was The Suns entire offense.....he can take over the scoring load when Dwight is taken out the game....
if he cant ...Gilbert has shown he can take over a game...
if he cant ....Turk can single handedly get EVERYONE involved and take over the game that way.....

this is an amazing day and its exciting cause this just gives us another team that can easily beat the Heat..

rapjuicer06
12-18-2010, 05:56 PM
i see one more trade being made before it is all said an done. redick/duhon/q rich...one of the three will be moved to bring in a back up center. i see the most effective lineup being

gilbert-jrich-qrich-bass-howard then the bench of
nelson-redick-turk-anderson-allen

thats how i'd start it and see what happens. qrich doesn't need a lot of touches, neither does bass. that way gilbert, jrich and howard can be the focal points while bass can get hustle rebounds and put backs or the occasional mid range jumper while Q can stand out by the 3 point arch waiting for the ball. nelson and turk coming off the bench i think would be great! they compliment each other very well because of the ability to drive and kick out, and also have anderson and redick to kick the ball out to as well....someone does need to be traded to bring in a better back up center though...

HuRRiCaNeS324
12-18-2010, 05:57 PM
They let go of their one and only defense specialist (other than Howard) and JJ will see less time after finally getting it together. They will be stacked with wings that done play off the ball and loss depth in size.

I have no ****ing idea why everyone is so excited. Now there is so much pressure on Howards not to foul as much because then your are gonna have a raw rookie coming in to replace him. Bass is going to see the more minutes and his stamina and durability will be tested for the first time and Ryan Anderson will get even more minutes, not good.

I voted lateral because i dont think they will get worse than they are already playing.

Hellcrooner
12-18-2010, 05:59 PM
worse-

they added a Showboat sg and a chucker for the Pg position that also has frequent locker room trouble and mad antics.

Not a good idea IMO.

xbrackattackx
12-18-2010, 06:01 PM
I don't think Bass will start, It could be

Jameer
Arenas
Jrich
Turko
Beastly

GSRaider
12-18-2010, 06:01 PM
Well damn... Orlandos front office is active ( they're trying to win )... I really like this trade for Orlando and I actually think it's pretty good trade for Phoenix... We shall see...

JordansBulls
12-18-2010, 06:02 PM
On paper this team is like the 1998-2000 Miami Heat now with Tim Hardaway and Zo but now it is Arenas and Dwight.

shizzle09
12-18-2010, 06:03 PM
How Just got J rich instead of carter upgrade. Arenes will be better in orlando. Hedo coming off the bench. I think they got better. funny i think they are on the heat and celtics level

:facepalm:

bigsams50
12-18-2010, 06:03 PM
I think they got worse. Hedo's been horrible the past two years, and Gilbert isnt playing well either. They also don't have many bigs left on their roster after trading away Lewis and Gortat for guards

Lloyd Christmas
12-18-2010, 06:07 PM
I wonder if Hedo will run the offense again?

ManRam
12-18-2010, 06:07 PM
Need a back up center and then we are clearly better. We have the pieces to do it.

Avenged
12-18-2010, 06:07 PM
They should have just added Richardson, I find that to be a great move..

I'm also not big on Arenas, and Hedo it depends which Hedo shows up..

Hopefully they become better though, I don't want to see the Celtics or Heat make it to the Finals. :p

fingerbang
12-18-2010, 06:09 PM
They lost freakin Gortat not Olajuwon. They can replace that depth pretty easily with one more trade. They added a ton of players to complement the big man.

goose15
12-18-2010, 06:13 PM
better.. I think Arenas needed a change

showtym24
12-18-2010, 06:17 PM
Im still shocked they took on arenas's contract. They got better though IMO.

tbomlad
12-18-2010, 06:17 PM
Arenas will be a beast playing with Dwight and will be a fixture once again on the All-star team. I hate seeing Turk and his sloppy, costly turnovers & bad forced shots back in Orlando. JR is a younger and better version of VC. I've always thought Jameer's game (no defense/very good offensive player) was better suited as a spark plug off the bench. Now with four PGs on the roster I expect another trade to happen soon, most likely for a backup big to Dwight. IMO, this puts the Magic as the team to beat in the East.

Vinylman
12-18-2010, 06:19 PM
no brainer... this is definitely an upgrade... JRICH was stolen

Doesn't even matter what arenas or turkeyglue does... anything they offer is a plus

If people are concerned about the magics size why aren't they concerned about the heat? a bunch of 7 foot pieces of crap on the bench don't equal depth nor a center....

any team that gets rid of vince carter has a chance... dude is the kiss of death to championship aspirations

Crackadalic
12-18-2010, 06:19 PM
Gortat was not doing well at all this year so i dont get whats the big loss. Yes pietrus was their best wing defender but he wasnt all nba defensive player which is not a big lost. Vince was sucking for two years and was replace by a younger more athletic prolific scorer in j-rich. arenas shot is pure and will get better win a new scenery. Lewis was not playing well at all and is replace with Hedo who IMO plays better in the magics system.

Also nelson will start with arenas at the 2. i like j-rich coming off the bench

_Supreme_
12-18-2010, 06:19 PM
Worse.

These are clearly panick moves, and I really do not think the team they have now will work out for them.

It's going to be Dwight, Brandon and the Chuckfest. Stan could be very frustrated very soon.

jkcronyn
12-18-2010, 06:21 PM
i think the magic need to get rid of stan van before being an elite team, just my opinion though

tbomlad
12-18-2010, 06:23 PM
Im still shocked they took on arenas's contract. They got better though IMO.

WTF?! I'd rather have Arenas' bad contract than Lewis' bad contract. Great trade for the Magic.

Bos_Sports4Life
12-18-2010, 06:24 PM
Either way, QUOTE ME IF YOU WANT.......Orl will ATLEAST go 7 against miami, or they win that series, NO ONE on maimi can come close to stopping Dwight Howard in the paint, he'd be an unstoppable force. Yet everyone is thinking miami is by far and away a top 2 team, thats a joke

John Walls Era
12-18-2010, 06:26 PM
I don't like them so hopefully it doesn't work. But this could easily put them at the top.

tbomlad
12-18-2010, 06:30 PM
Worse.

These are clearly panick moves, and I really do not think the team they have now will work out for them.

It's going to be Dwight, Brandon and the Chuckfest. Stan could be very frustrated very soon.

It's funny, reading all the postings I see that almost all of the ones hating and bad mouthing this trade for the Magic are Heat fans, LMAO. Definitely tells you something. There's no doubt Arenas & JR can match the scoring of Wade & the Queen and the Heat still has no one that can stop Dwight.

CityofTreez
12-18-2010, 06:30 PM
Good trade for the Magic

J-Rich is still capable of having monster quarters, Hedo fits well in their system, and Arenas will play tough with the ball in his hands. Carter was aging, and Hedo is back.

That Suns lineup is almost toast! Steve Nash, Vince Carter, and Grant Hill are all getting old and ready to hang it up. Gortat & Pietrus are solid additions, but Suns lost an impact player in J-Rich, and those two are role players on an aging team.

The West is getting weaker and weaker day-by-day

John Walls Era
12-18-2010, 06:32 PM
Either way, QUOTE ME IF YOU WANT.......Orl will ATLEAST go 7 against miami, or they win that series, NO ONE on maimi can come close to stopping Dwight Howard in the paint, he'd be an unstoppable force. Yet everyone is thinking miami is by far and away a top 2 team, thats a joke

Just like no one on that team can stop Amare?

saucy1
12-18-2010, 06:32 PM
the magic was lacking one major thing that is a guy to take pressure off howard.Vince carter was not doin it,they added three guys who do that

Niro
12-18-2010, 06:35 PM
they got way better..i think some of you really underrate j.rich and talk about him like he is earl clark

BIG worm
12-18-2010, 06:35 PM
dont think they are done yet. need more size. but as of right now,as a bulls fan, i like these moves. rashard was a nightmare matchup for the bulls.

_Supreme_
12-18-2010, 06:36 PM
Either way, QUOTE ME IF YOU WANT.......Orl will ATLEAST go 7 against miami, or they win that series, NO ONE on maimi can come close to stopping Dwight Howard in the paint, he'd be an unstoppable force. Yet everyone is thinking miami is by far and away a top 2 team, thats a joke

And NO ONE on Orlando can come even close to stopping Wade & Lebron. I'll happily make that tradeoff.

Pietrus might have had the best shot at limiting Lebron, but he is gone now.

Gilbert and Jason don't play a lick of defense. All they will do is shoot the ball.

What Orlando did here is add firepower and give up defense, chemistry and balance on their roster. That, and they added good character guys for potential problems.

The only one on that roster who concerns me is Dwight, and he was already there anyway. A lot of teams will now employ the tactic of getting him into (foul) trouble even more, and watch nobody to come in to sub for him instead of Gortat, who might not be great, but at least was really useful for them.

kyubi256
12-18-2010, 06:37 PM
Honestly I think they were better before... I think they are now definitely not an elite team anymore. Before it was arguable. Not I think it is a definite no.

Gram
12-18-2010, 06:38 PM
I think they're better.

AddiX
12-18-2010, 06:39 PM
At least I can maybe watch Orlando now, the team they had on the court this year was easily the most boring team of all time.

beasted86
12-18-2010, 06:39 PM
Wait... who says Nelson is coming off the bench?

sNaKeS
12-18-2010, 06:40 PM
What these trades do is change orlando's fast break offense the most, instead of running and kicking it out to rashard or vince for 3 they are going to have jameer running the point and have arenas and jrich slash to the basket with superman running the floor also.

BIG worm
12-18-2010, 06:41 PM
nelson aint comin off the bench.

Bos_Sports4Life
12-18-2010, 06:44 PM
And NO ONE on Orlando can come even close to stopping Wade & Lebron. I'll happily make that tradeoff.

Pietrus might have had the best shot at limiting Lebron, but he is gone now.

Gilbert and Jason don't play a lick of defense. All they will do is shoot the ball.

What Orlando did here is add firepower and give up defense, chemistry and balance on their roster. That, and they added good character guys for potential problems.

The only one on that roster who concerns me is Dwight, and he was already there anyway. A lot of teams will now employ the tactic of getting him into (foul) trouble even more, and watch nobody to come in to sub for him instead of Gortat, who might not be great, but at least was really useful for them.


Wade/Lebron are drivers, neither have a GREAT shot, they are scorers, not shooters, And yes, Dwight Howard can and will affect anyone driving like great defensive centers do. If Dwight Howard is used right, and they use him in the pick & roll, and not post up with him, he pretty much becomes an unstoppable force, even the c's last yr, with SEVERAL big men (a lot more than miami has) couldn't stop dwight when he was used in the pick & roll. Im not saying miami won't beat orl, but its a lot closer than most think. Im not even a freaking orl fan, so im CLEARLY not biased, in any way towards orl. To me, LA/BOS/ORL are the top 3 in that order, until proven otherwise

MickeyMgl
12-18-2010, 06:44 PM
I'm not sure this is going to be a significant improvement, especially if they continue to focus on a perimeter-oriented game, wasting a good PF like Brandon Bass. Playing Howard at PF next to Gortat would work, too.

[Woops. No more Gortat. That might swing my opinion in the opposite direction. They need interior guys.]

Still, I was joking to myself when I looked at the Magic at the start of this season, "Haven't they broken this team up yet?". Seriously, they needed to do something, anything. I'm not sure all the pieces fit, but it's a start.

Interestingly, it's kind of an admission on their part that Carter could not replace Turkoglu.

Now, if Van Gundy sticks with his strategy of four perimeter guys and Howard, then the Magic should strongly consider getting a new coach.

Bravo95
12-18-2010, 06:46 PM
It all hinges on Gil imo. If he shines, then yeah. If not, Dwight's outta there in a couple years.

Blazers#1Fan
12-18-2010, 06:50 PM
there lineup should be

C. Howard
PF Hedo
SF Richardson
SG Arenas
PG Nelson

effen5
12-18-2010, 06:54 PM
Wade/Lebron are drivers, neither have a GREAT shot, they are scorers, not shooters, And yes, Dwight Howard can and will affect anyone driving like great defensive centers do. If Dwight Howard is used right, and they use him in the pick & roll, and not post up with him, he pretty much becomes an unstoppable force, even the c's last yr, with SEVERAL big men (a lot more than miami has) couldn't stop dwight when he was used in the pick & roll. Im not saying miami won't beat orl, but its a lot closer than most think. Im not even a freaking orl fan, so im CLEARLY not biased, in any way towards orl. To me, LA/BOS/ORL are the top 3 in that order, until proven otherwise

nice post

wa77ss
12-18-2010, 06:54 PM
This makes them way better. J Rich is better than Carter alone, and Turk will be his old self in Orlando. Arenas still has some gas left, and I have more faith in his jumper than Carters in a late game situation. I remember J Rich giving LA a hell of a time in the playoffs last year, and we all know Hedo is mr. 4th quarter.

I bet it will end up Arenas/J Rich/Turk/Bass/Howard and off the bench Nelson/Reddick/Clark or Q Rich/Anderson/Allen or Orton

Duhon/Williams/Reddick/Anderson/Q Rich are all on the block for a backup center now IMO, Orlando may make one more move.

MickeyMgl
12-18-2010, 06:55 PM
There's more potential, but that's A LOT of retooling for a mid-season trade. It's going to take quite a while to incorporate that amount of high-volume shooters to a lineup cohesively. And I don't think it's something that can happen for a team that wants to contend over the course of one season.

They should have done this stuff in the off-season. Classic case of changing nothing and hoping for a different result. Their management really dropped the ball. Not just management, even. How long is Van Gundy going to stick with a perimeter-oriented game and hope it eventually works?



Also, they have no depth in the post. This is a monumental issue for a team whose star player is often in foul trouble.

It had been a strong point for them. What they probably should have been doing is playing Gortat and Howard together more.

bigtony989
12-18-2010, 06:57 PM
adding hedo=instant worse

Evolution23
12-18-2010, 06:57 PM
They are much better. Arenas is going to revive his career with the magic. Also Turk is going to have a good season now that he can be the 3rd option. Also they got Jameer coming off the bench, that is scary!

nigerianking
12-18-2010, 07:01 PM
people saying Jameer is coming off the bench now know nothing

JordansBulls
12-18-2010, 07:04 PM
people saying Jameer is coming off the bench now know nothing

They won't win it all unless Arenas starts.

faze38
12-18-2010, 07:05 PM
Way better this team now has balance. They have players that can all shoot the 3 but can get in the lane and create hovac! That has been what they have been misssing the whole time! VC's body was to old to carry the load they were asking him to carry. I mean if he didn't get injuried so much earlier in his career they would have been a championship team but much like T-Mac he wasn't so lucky. So for the people who are saying they didn't get better I think u guys never reallly watched them play! They were a shooting team that depended on the three ball to much and an undersized PG to win games. Now they have a bunch of slashers that are good shooters so if they are not shooting well they can still get to the lane and give defenses fits! So I have to say that they are better then the Heat now but the Celtics still have 1 up on them because they have depth at the Center position including one named Shaq that is gonna be part of the tandem that gives Howard a problem in a 7 game series!

faze38
12-18-2010, 07:08 PM
people saying Jameer is coming off the bench now know nothing

Nelson is in no way better then Gilbert! I will say that he is gonna be the best back up point in the league tho and expect the Magic to go small at times with Gilbert playing the two that is gona be a nasty backcourt!

nigerianking
12-18-2010, 07:08 PM
Nelson is the Magic's 2nd best player now...no way he goes to the bench

Gators123
12-18-2010, 07:10 PM
Alex Kennedy
Stan Van Gundy says that Jameer Nelson is still the starter. He feels that Arenas and Nelson can play together.


Alex Kennedy
Hedo won't start at the four. Stan made it clear that one of the new additions - Arenas, Turkoglu, or Richardson - will come off the bench.

http://twitter.com/#!/AlexKennedyNBA

shep33
12-18-2010, 07:12 PM
Orlando is scary as long as Arenas stays healthy... I hope he revives his career. And honestly if he is somewhat close to the Gilbert of old, that is absolutely scary for opposing teams.

nigerianking
12-18-2010, 07:16 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/AlexKennedyNBA

like i said...

you guys just say arenas is the starter because of his name...if you watch Jameer, you know he's not coming off the bench

Khalifa21
12-18-2010, 07:16 PM
They get worse defensively it seems...

Losing Pietrus, Gortat and even Carter (who was having the joint best defensive season of his career) for three poor defenders is pretty bad. Dwight will make them look better, but none of them are remotely consistent perimeter defenders.

The combined defensive rating of the outgoing and incoming players could tell a story.

Outgoing

Vince Carter - 102
Mickael Pietrus - 103
Marcin Gortat - 98

Average - 101

Incoming

Jason Richardson - 114
Gilbert Arenas - 113
Hedo Turkoglu - 113

Average - 113.3

That's pretty important in my opinion... I'm sure the new guys will receive a boost in their rating with Dwight behind them but it's still a pretty significant stat. Who do the Magic have to guard Bron and Wade now?

dc5jdm
12-18-2010, 07:16 PM
Why do people keep sayin to start Hedo at 4, If they were gettin torched by big teams Boston and LA and thats who they wanna beat.
I feel like their gonna make another move, since their thin in the front court and if they want to win a chip. Rite now they can compete with the roster they have, i dont see em as a championship team without another serviceable big.

shep33
12-18-2010, 07:16 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/AlexKennedyNBA

They have time to play around with lineups IMO... try out Arenas at the 2 to begin with. Jrich will probably see the bench i think, but he'll play a ton of minutes still. Turk at the 3, just cause he's much bigger than Jrich. Bass at the 4 and Howard at the 5 should be givens.

I'd start out like this:
Nelson
Arenas
Turk
Bass
Howard

Doesn't work then go to...

Nelson
Jrich
Turk
Bass
Howard

haha that doesn't work...

Arenas
Jrich
Turk
Bass
Howard

cchrisc773
12-18-2010, 07:18 PM
I honestly think after these moves Orlando is not done.

Look for them to ship Duhon and Q. Rich out for a quality Big behind Howard.

nigerianking
12-18-2010, 07:19 PM
They have time to play around with lineups IMO... try out Arenas at the 2 to begin with. Jrich will probably see the bench i think, but he'll play a ton of minutes still. Turk at the 3, just cause he's much bigger than Jrich. Bass at the 4 and Howard at the 5 should be givens.

I'd start out like this:
Nelson
Arenas
Turk
Bass
Howard

Doesn't work then go to...

Nelson
Jrich
Turk
Bass
Howard

haha that doesn't work...

Arenas
Jrich
Turk
Bass
Howard

you left out the most likely and the best lineup...

Nelson
Arenas
Rich
Bass
Howard

NYKNYGNYY
12-18-2010, 07:19 PM
it depends how arenas plays if he gets his game back there gonna be a great team

nigerianking
12-18-2010, 07:23 PM
i think JRich starting is a given...the other 2 not too sure

dnewguy
12-18-2010, 07:32 PM
They just made sure that Dwight Howard will be joining forces with either Rose or Durrant in the near future. A horrible team they just assembled,The Magic are not even a contender anymore IMHO. Just look at what they have on that team, you have Howard and a bunch of mini-mi. Absolutely pathetic front office, now they have only 2 big man, Howard and ummmmmmmmmm Brandon Bass? a collection of regular season saints in Nelson, Q Rich, J Rich, Arenas, Hedo and JJ Reddick. A collection of players that have never made a difference on every good team they've been on.

nigerianking
12-18-2010, 07:38 PM
They just made sure that Dwight Howard will be joining forces with either Rose or Durrant in the near future. A horrible team they just assembled,The Magic are not even a contender anymore IMHO. Just look at what they have on that team, you have Howard and a bunch of mini-mi. Absolutely pathetic front office, now they have only 2 big man, Howard and ummmmmmmmmm Brandon Bass? a collection of regular season saints in Nelson, Q Rich, J Rich, Arenas, Hedo and JJ Reddick. A collection of players that have never made a difference on every good team they've been on.

because Lewis and Carter were gonna take them far?

This isnt the best move, but it definitely has potential if they can get a backup big

thaShady
12-18-2010, 07:39 PM
Great move. The Eastern playoffs are going to be way more fun to watch than the West.

tbomlad
12-18-2010, 07:39 PM
I'm not sure this is going to be a significant improvement, especially if they continue to focus on a perimeter-oriented game, wasting a good PF like Brandon Bass. Playing Howard at PF next to Gortat would work, too.

[Woops. No more Gortat. That might swing my opinion in the opposite direction. They need interior guys.]

Still, I was joking to myself when I looked at the Magic at the start of this season, "Haven't they broken this team up yet?". Seriously, they needed to do something, anything. I'm not sure all the pieces fit, but it's a start.

Interestingly, it's kind of an admission on their part that Carter could not replace Turkoglu.

Now, if Van Gundy sticks with his strategy of four perimeter guys and Howard, then the Magic should strongly consider getting a new coach.

I completely agree!! If SVG starts Turk at PF instead of Bass he should be fired immediately. This trade definitely upgrades the Magic but they still might be one coach away from a title.

dc5jdm
12-18-2010, 07:41 PM
These trades are worth the risk, they werent gonna get very far wit the roster they had. Mite as well go all in.

IrespectNumber3
12-18-2010, 07:46 PM
Worse...Dwight is going to have to play 40-44 mins a night...No legit backup Center...If Dwight gets in foul trouble there doomed.

No perimeter defenders...Pietrus is gone...

Arenas is a high turnover player...

Corey
12-18-2010, 07:47 PM
This could potentially make the Magic very good, but unless they trade Nelson...What happens when Dwight picks up 2 fouls quickly?

thekmp211
12-18-2010, 07:48 PM
they need to flip nelson for at least one more big man. magic aren't done trading, i don't think.

Iron24th
12-18-2010, 07:51 PM
I think they improved,they were going nowehere with VC and Lewis who aren't closers.

I can tell you Arenas is one.

They just need to fix their frontcourt rotation now,but it's probably a matter of time before they do.

*Superman*
12-18-2010, 07:53 PM
This could potentially make the Magic very good, but unless they trade Nelson...What happens when Dwight picks up 2 fouls quickly?

Gortat wasn't worth the money he was getting for playing 10 minutes a game. I'm guessing at this point they have trust in Malik Allen? Depending on Arenas play, this could make Nelson expandable.

Edit: actually this makes JJ trade-able because Arenas and Richardson can both play SG.

WadeCounty
12-18-2010, 07:57 PM
im sorry but this is the same magic team that kept on preaching how they had a much better team than miami and much deeper than them, yet not even half way through the season they pushed the panic button and basically traded their whole team except for nelson and howard. Gortat was a serious mistake to trade imo

*Superman*
12-18-2010, 08:00 PM
im sorry but this is the same magic team that kept on preaching how they had a much better team than miami and much deeper than them, yet not even half way through the season they pushed the panic button and basically traded their whole team except for nelson and howard. Gortat was a serious mistake to trade imo

No he wasn't. He plays like 8-10M a game and got paid 6+million. We don't need a super back up for our best player. We can find someone much cheaper to do the same job. And if you saw the game vs the Bucks, where he was the starter because half the players were sick., he got demolished by Bogut, he couldn't keep him in front of him. Gortat became really overrated, maybe with more time he can excel, but the Magic had no need for him.

Someone posted a tweet that Houston tried landing Gortat and Martin would have came to the Magic. I would be in favor of that but it said the deal just didn't work.

Sportfan
12-18-2010, 08:00 PM
The best team would be

Nelson
J Rich
Hedo
Bass
D12

Arenas comes in if either Nelson, J Rich or Hedo (with JRich sliding to SF) need to go out and wrecks **** up. He'd be a great 6th man

MiamiWadeCounty
12-18-2010, 08:01 PM
any chance the heat can get jameer :pray: we can offer chalmers, joel, and uhhh jamaal magloire. now the magic can put gilbert at pg, get chalmers at backup, and put joel in as a backup for defense. lol

Chacarron
12-18-2010, 08:04 PM
They need a backup big. If they acquire a solid one, they are definite contenders. Right now, we'll have to see how the new players work together.

*Superman*
12-18-2010, 08:05 PM
any chance the heat can get jameer :pray: we can offer chalmers, joel, and uhhh jamaal magloire. now the magic can put gilbert at pg, get chalmers at backup, and put joel in as a backup for defense. lol

No. Way. In. Hell.

:)

FaM0us Skins
12-18-2010, 08:05 PM
Their team is better

*Superman*
12-18-2010, 08:06 PM
Also, Magic probably will finally get Franz Vazquez next season.

checkit
12-18-2010, 08:11 PM
It'll seem like a lateral move at first, but in the long run this will make them better. I still think they aren't on par with Boston, however.

this

_Supreme_
12-18-2010, 08:16 PM
It's funny, reading all the postings I see that almost all of the ones hating and bad mouthing this trade for the Magic are Heat fans, LMAO. Definitely tells you something. There's no doubt Arenas & JR can match the scoring of Wade & the Queen and the Heat still has no one that can stop Dwight.

If you really have "no doubt" that Gilbert & Jason = Dwyane & Lebron, then I must conclude you are either intentionally ignorant, or that you appear to really not have a clue about the fundamentals of the game of basketball. This is not just about the stats, it's about how the stats are produced and there is this little thing called EFFICIENCY.

See, Gilbert might maybe perhaps match Wade or Lebron in pts scored on a given day, but on average he will need more shot attemps to do so.The same goes for Jason Richardson, although he is more efficient than Gilbert.

Wade - .496 fg%, 16,5 shot att, 23,7 pts
Lebron - .470 fg%, 17,4 shot att, 24,2 pts
Bosh - .500 fg%, 13,9 shot att, 18,1 pts

Dwight - .578%, 13,1 att, 21,5 pts
Gil - .392%, 15,7 att, 17,3 pts
Rich - .470%, 15,6 att, 19,3 pts

Dwight is a beast obviously, but so far he is only taking 13,1 shot attempts per game, which is Imo way too few. Now do you think, if you replace the teammates who were previously taking his shots away with guys who need even more shots, that this is going to be in Dwight's favour?

Right.

Also, do you think, if you put two guys together who previously took their # of shots without real competition for those shots by other high volume shooters on their previous teams, that this would beneficial for both of them?

Or maybe that they both will have to give some up? Yes, that is right. And since their % isn't likely to go up by much, if any at all, that logically means less production.

So do you think, taking all of this into account, that the combination of the above seems an improvement? Or that maybe there will be some hickups?

That is all I am saying, and it is not hating but actual potential valid arguments. I don't hate the Orlando Magic even despite them being one of Miami's main rivals. Actually if it turns out the higher powers don't have a Finals appearance planned for Miami, then Orlando is the only other team I'd enjoy seeing representing the East.

These are the same things some people were saying about Miami's guys before they started playing. And yes, all of them gave up a little something, and it turns out to work perfectly fine (see #s above), which in most part is due to the professional mindset they have and their efficiency.

Those are more question marks I placing with the particular individuals Orlando now aquired. Mindset and ability to sacrifice for the team. And again, that is not hating but valid question marking.

I have always liked Mr. Hibachi, but he remains a crazy unpredictable little fella. He might become better-than-ever SuperGil, but there is just as much chance he brings a ho-train of handgranade-toting North Korean transvestites into the Magic's locker room.

Now could I be wrong? Sure. But until they prove they can I remain unconvinced they are an improved team.

Just for funz btw, do you actually know how unstoppable Dwight Howard has been vs Miami in the last 6 games the teams played against eachother?

Dwight's points scored: 12, 17, 7 and 10 last season, 19 and 24 points this season. Of course last year Miami had JO, who did a good defensive job despite all his other over-the-hillness.

To compare, Dwyane Wade's points scored: 24, 25, 21, 36 last year, and 26 & 18 this year.

Dwight's numbers are obviously fine (this year), and we can't say often enough that he is a beast (and one of my long time fav players), but I wouldn't call it ZOMG unstoppable.

The teams are 3-3 vs eachother in those 6 games.

In the end I'm not any more concerned about Orlando than I was before. Maybe they can beat Miami in a series, and maybe they can't. Whatever happens, the result will not be much different from what it would have been before.

RadiantShot
12-18-2010, 08:27 PM
And to conclude, anyone willing to take ^ that much time to prove a point, must obviously hate Orlando.

Chronz
12-18-2010, 08:37 PM
Option C is wrong, Jameer WILL start

shep33
12-18-2010, 08:38 PM
you left out the most likely and the best lineup...

Nelson
Arenas
Rich
Bass
Howard

The only reason I didn't put that down is that Jrich is pretty small, and I dunno if he can guard other 3's.

xbrackattackx
12-18-2010, 08:39 PM
And to conclude, anyone willing to take ^ that much time to prove a point, must obviously hate Orlando.

I know dude wrote a novel.

MiamiWadeCounty
12-18-2010, 08:40 PM
orlando has probably improved with this deal, but they are still not as good as the celtics or heat. if they can flip jameer for a good pf theyd be nasty. the only thing is that i think jameer is a very good player and is a better fit at PG than arenas these days. orlando should use jrich (sg,sf)) and (pg, more sg)gilbert like the hawks use (more sg,sf) joe johnson and (sg)crawford.

romaldinho
12-18-2010, 08:41 PM
Their definitely a better team but in worse shape financially.Sometimes that the price you have to pay to risk taking that next step :)

Sadds The Gr8
12-18-2010, 08:42 PM
i don't see why people think this makes them so much better. Gilbert and Hedo are still huge question marks. How good will Gilbert be? Will he even be half of what he used to be? And just because hedo's back with the Magic doesn't mean he'll average 19 ppg again. The team isn't nearly as deep anymore.

xbrackattackx
12-18-2010, 08:43 PM
I wanna see orlando flip Jameer and Clark for a couple of solid centers/PF's.

beasted86
12-18-2010, 08:49 PM
I wanna see orlando flip Jameer and Clark for a couple of solid centers/PF's.

Jameer Nelson + Earl Clark for Lou Williams + Spencer Hawes or Speights?

_Supreme_
12-18-2010, 08:50 PM
And to conclude, anyone willing to take ^ that much time to prove a point, must obviously hate Orlando.

Well you could conclude that, but it would be a rather ******** conclusion to be honest.

What I would conclude instead is that God didn't bless you with the mental capabilities to respond in an intelligent way to someone on the internet, but that he did put you in the front row when they were handing out ignorance and coming up with weaksauce responses.

Or maybe there were too many words there for you to fully comprehend? In that case I take back my words and blame the educational system of whatever country you live in.

Chronz
12-18-2010, 08:58 PM
Jameer Nelson + Earl Clark for Lou Williams + Spencer Hawes or Speights?

Problem with headlining your trade with a PG is that EVERY team in the league has a PG.

Jru Holiday is the PG of the future in Philly so they have no use for Jameer

_Supreme_
12-18-2010, 08:58 PM
Jameer Nelson + Earl Clark for Lou Williams + Spencer Hawes or Speights?

I don't think Philadelphia would be eager to trade their current starting center and proven combo guard for a, for them, backup point guard and some bum :cool:

But then again I didn't think Washington would send their franchise back closer to the stone ages by trading Gil for fething Rashard Lewis, so who knows what crazyness happens.

Maybe Memphis would send Thabeet + salary filler to Orlando for Jameer. not many teams with a spare big need a (starting) point guard. Bigs are much harder to come by.

nigerianking
12-18-2010, 09:01 PM
trade jameer? for anyone but a star like Gerald Wallace, its ********...jameer is the magic pg, period

nigerianking
12-18-2010, 09:02 PM
you guys on here underrate jameer severely

Tha Truth
12-18-2010, 09:04 PM
Orlando looks better on paper.

BUT chemistry is very important in this league and considering the amout of new players they brought in and considering we are 1/3 through the season I think chemistry is going to be what holds this team back. They have also lost depth in this deal and it will be important for the players to understand and except their roles.

I am very interested to see how this deal plays out. And I must say Otis Smith has a lot of guts to make this deal. It's basically a HIT or MISS.

Durant is hype
12-18-2010, 09:04 PM
If you really have "no doubt" that Gilbert & Jason = Dwyane & Lebron, then I must conclude you are either intentionally ignorant, or that you appear to really not have a clue about the fundamentals of the game of basketball. This is not just about the stats, it's about how the stats are produced and there is this little thing called EFFICIENCY.

See, Gilbert might maybe perhaps match Wade or Lebron in pts scored on a given day, but on average he will need more shot attemps to do so.The same goes for Jason Richardson, although he is more efficient than Gilbert.

Wade - .496 fg%, 16,5 shot att, 23,7 pts
Lebron - .470 fg%, 17,4 shot att, 24,2 pts
Bosh - .500 fg%, 13,9 shot att, 18,1 pts

Dwight - .578%, 13,1 att, 21,5 pts
Gil - .392%, 15,7 att, 17,3 pts
Rich - .470%, 15,6 att, 19,3 pts

Dwight is a beast obviously, but so far he is only taking 13,1 shot attempts per game, which is Imo way too few. Now do you think, if you replace the teammates who were previously taking his shots away with guys who need even more shots, that this is going to be in Dwight's favour?

Right.

Also, do you think, if you put two guys together who previously took their # of shots without real competition for those shots by other high volume shooters on their previous teams, that this would beneficial for both of them?

Or maybe that they both will have to give some up? Yes, that is right. And since their % isn't likely to go up by much, if any at all, that logically means less production.

So do you think, taking all of this into account, that the combination of the above seems an improvement? Or that maybe there will be some hickups?

That is all I am saying, and it is not hating but actual potential valid arguments. I don't hate the Orlando Magic even despite them being one of Miami's main rivals. Actually if it turns out the higher powers don't have a Finals appearance planned for Miami, then Orlando is the only other team I'd enjoy seeing representing the East.

These are the same things some people were saying about Miami's guys before they started playing. And yes, all of them gave up a little something, and it turns out to work perfectly fine (see #s above), which in most part is due to the professional mindset they have and their efficiency.

Those are more question marks I placing with the particular individuals Orlando now aquired. Mindset and ability to sacrifice for the team. And again, that is not hating but valid question marking.

I have always liked Mr. Hibachi, but he remains a crazy unpredictable little fella. He might become better-than-ever SuperGil, but there is just as much chance he brings a ho-train of handgranade-toting North Korean transvestites into the Magic's locker room.

Now could I be wrong? Sure. But until they prove they can I remain unconvinced they are an improved team.

Just for funz btw, do you actually know how unstoppable Dwight Howard has been vs Miami in the last 6 games the teams played against eachother?

Dwight's points scored: 12, 17, 7 and 10 last season, 19 and 24 points this season. Of course last year Miami had JO, who did a good defensive job despite all his other over-the-hillness.

To compare, Dwyane Wade's points scored: 24, 25, 21, 36 last year, and 26 & 18 this year.

Dwight's numbers are obviously fine (this year), and we can't say often enough that he is a beast (and one of my long time fav players), but I wouldn't call it ZOMG unstoppable.

The teams are 3-3 vs eachother in those 6 games.

In the end I'm not any more concerned about Orlando than I was before. Maybe they can beat Miami in a series, and maybe they can't. Whatever happens, the result will not be much different from what it would have been before.

:clap:

jkcronyn
12-18-2010, 09:08 PM
jameer isn't elite though, i just htink an elite guard geets you a championship im not try to argue but i am curious does anyone think he's elite?

nigerianking
12-18-2010, 09:11 PM
jameer isnt elite...but he's above average and can compete with the elite PGs in the NBA...unless you know Arenas is better or you get a great trade offer, its foolish to trade him

Raph12
12-18-2010, 09:14 PM
Too early too tell, this can go really well or really bad, either way there is nothing to lose... We weren't going to win if we stayed pat anyways.

ccg34
12-18-2010, 09:15 PM
Bad trade, but can become a good trade if they trade Nelson, Duhon, or Redick. People are saying how important Hedo was two years ago, but they fail to remember how important were Lewis and Pietrus. They were just as important as Hedo in their championship run.

tbomlad
12-18-2010, 09:28 PM
If you really have "no doubt" that Gilbert & Jason = Dwyane & Lebron, then I must conclude you are either intentionally ignorant, or that you appear to really not have a clue about the fundamentals of the game of basketball. This is not just about the stats, it's about how the stats are produced and there is this little thing called EFFICIENCY.

See, Gilbert might maybe perhaps match Wade or Lebron in pts scored on a given day, but on average he will need more shot attemps to do so.The same goes for Jason Richardson, although he is more efficient than Gilbert.

Wade - .496 fg%, 16,5 shot att, 23,7 pts
Lebron - .470 fg%, 17,4 shot att, 24,2 pts
Bosh - .500 fg%, 13,9 shot att, 18,1 pts

Dwight - .578%, 13,1 att, 21,5 pts
Gil - .392%, 15,7 att, 17,3 pts
Rich - .470%, 15,6 att, 19,3 pts

Dwight is a beast obviously, but so far he is only taking 13,1 shot attempts per game, which is Imo way too few. Now do you think, if you replace the teammates who were previously taking his shots away with guys who need even more shots, that this is going to be in Dwight's favour?

Right.

Also, do you think, if you put two guys together who previously took their # of shots without real competition for those shots by other high volume shooters on their previous teams, that this would beneficial for both of them?

Or maybe that they both will have to give some up? Yes, that is right. And since their % isn't likely to go up by much, if any at all, that logically means less production.

So do you think, taking all of this into account, that the combination of the above seems an improvement? Or that maybe there will be some hickups?

That is all I am saying, and it is not hating but actual potential valid arguments. I don't hate the Orlando Magic even despite them being one of Miami's main rivals. Actually if it turns out the higher powers don't have a Finals appearance planned for Miami, then Orlando is the only other team I'd enjoy seeing representing the East.

These are the same things some people were saying about Miami's guys before they started playing. And yes, all of them gave up a little something, and it turns out to work perfectly fine (see #s above), which in most part is due to the professional mindset they have and their efficiency.

Those are more question marks I placing with the particular individuals Orlando now aquired. Mindset and ability to sacrifice for the team. And again, that is not hating but valid question marking.

I have always liked Mr. Hibachi, but he remains a crazy unpredictable little fella. He might become better-than-ever SuperGil, but there is just as much chance he brings a ho-train of handgranade-toting North Korean transvestites into the Magic's locker room.

Now could I be wrong? Sure. But until they prove they can I remain unconvinced they are an improved team.

Just for funz btw, do you actually know how unstoppable Dwight Howard has been vs Miami in the last 6 games the teams played against eachother?

Dwight's points scored: 12, 17, 7 and 10 last season, 19 and 24 points this season. Of course last year Miami had JO, who did a good defensive job despite all his other over-the-hillness.

To compare, Dwyane Wade's points scored: 24, 25, 21, 36 last year, and 26 & 18 this year.

Dwight's numbers are obviously fine (this year), and we can't say often enough that he is a beast (and one of my long time fav players), but I wouldn't call it ZOMG unstoppable.

The teams are 3-3 vs eachother in those 6 games.

In the end I'm not any more concerned about Orlando than I was before. Maybe they can beat Miami in a series, and maybe they can't. Whatever happens, the result will not be much different from what it would have been before.

Dude, what's wrong with you? seriously. Nobody is talking all around play but on any given night J Rich will hang 32 and Arenas 25 much in the same fashion as Wade & the Queen.

Blazers#1Fan
12-18-2010, 09:30 PM
And to conclude, anyone willing to take ^ that much time to prove a point, must obviously hate Orlando.

HEAT ARE HATERS NOW

GILBERT needed to be moved he needed to have a change of place he will be back to allstar form watch!

Hedo will return to how he played in ORLANDO like back in the day

JRICH is a great player hits the 3 can drive dunk do all of it

trade nelson

4 team trade

ORL GETS: Miller,Harrington
POR GETS: Randolph,Nelson,Turiaf
DEN GETS: 1st round pick(POR from NO)& 2013 1st from ORL,Gallinari,Chandler,Fields,Mills
NYC GETS: Melo

AirCanada15ORL
12-18-2010, 09:31 PM
For a team that is built around Howard, why would you get folks that will never pass the ball?

This.
Magic made a lateral move at most. Still NOT ENOUGH. I personally think they got worse, while I do think J Rich is the only positive out of that trade. I Think a Arenas/NElson backcourt is an absolute joke.


I'd say they got no better...and plus will take time to gel. factor that in and u have the same team. good and talented but not well enough coached or planned to get past Celtics or Now Heat.

RadiantShot
12-18-2010, 09:32 PM
Well you could conclude that, but it would be a rather ******** conclusion to be honest.

What I would conclude instead is that God didn't bless you with the mental capabilities to respond in an intelligent way to someone on the internet, but that he did put you in the front row when they were handing out ignorance and coming up with weaksauce responses.

Or maybe there were too many words there for you to fully comprehend? In that case I take back my words and blame the educational system of whatever country you live in.

What I would conclude is that YOU, sir, don't have the mental capabilities to realize my sarcastic tone was thrown in there. Now isn't that correct? Ski-daddle, young one.

RadiantShot
12-18-2010, 09:32 PM
This.
Magic made a lateral move at most. Still NOT ENOUGH. I personally think they got worse, while I do think J Rich is the only positive out of that trade. I Think a Arenas/NElson backcourt is an absolute joke.


I'd say they got no better...and plus will take time to gel. factor that in and u have the same team. good and talented but not well enough coached or planned to get past Celtics or Now Heat.

Go watch the Suns or something. <3

AirCanada15ORL
12-18-2010, 09:34 PM
was that insulting to the Magic at all Radiant? No. I was pointing out my honest opinion. the magic still do not have whta it takes while they are just below that contending mark.
just like they were with vince just like they are without.

RadiantShot
12-18-2010, 09:37 PM
was that insulting to the Magic at all Radiant? No. I was pointing out my honest opinion. the magic still do not have whta it takes while they are just below that contending mark.
just like they were with vince just like they are without.

I'm just kidding, haha. I think we can contend a lot better with this team that we now have, but then again, opinions are opinions.

dc5jdm
12-18-2010, 09:43 PM
why do magic fans always talk down on their players when traded or sign somewhere else. first it was hedo than barnes and now gortat????

Problemchild
12-18-2010, 09:44 PM
Some of you guys are really nutty if you think the magic didn't get better today. they gave boston problems without these perimeter threats they have now. D-howard is gonna eat bosh (pause) & j rich/gilbert are equal if not better than vince & rashawd right now. When they had hedo he was basicallly theyre best passer. If gilbert can get back to half what he use to be with the way teams have to fear howard... im not anywhere near a orlando fan (knicks all day) but if you guys don't see improvement you don't really watch basket ball !

DoJoTheSlasher
12-18-2010, 09:44 PM
PG: Nelson
SG: Richardson
SF: Turkoglu
PF: Bass
C: Howard

Arenas off of the bench will be the most likely. J Rich can't play SF.


I think they are better. Richardson > Carter and Turk is gonna go back to a 15/4/4 player. Arenas is also gonna be hitting alot of shots too. Gortat was a very good backup and they lose extra D but Dwight is there. Shard was having a terrible year and Pietrus was a solid role player. Doesn't make them best put still keeps them in contention with LA, BOS, SA and DAL.

Ni55anpat
12-18-2010, 09:44 PM
alot better. Arenas can score, turk is/was clutch for them and J-rich off the bench...seriously that is nasty.

nigerianking
12-18-2010, 09:54 PM
J-Rich is starting everyone...come on, have you ever seen him play?

Heater4life
12-18-2010, 10:01 PM
Orlando just got better, whom ever says otherwise is just being ignorant. Fact is, there biggest problem was creating shots outside of howard. Arenas can get his, turk has thrived in the system before. The biggest question i have now is there outside shooting, which was there strength the past years.

nigerianking
12-18-2010, 10:08 PM
Orlando just got better, whom ever says otherwise is just being ignorant. Fact is, there biggest problem was creating shots outside of howard. Arenas can get his, turk has thrived in the system before. The biggest question i have now is there outside shooting, which was there strength the past years.

Outside shooting: Nelson, J-Rich, Arenas, Reddick, Anderson, Q-Rich, Turk

NBA-GMaster
12-18-2010, 10:18 PM
Why did they trade their 1st pick.. Now Magic dont have any chance to get Melo or CP3 this season.. NJ and NY watch out for this team, another Florida team will rob you in Melo sweepstakes..

Byronicle
12-18-2010, 10:24 PM
Are the Orlando Magic going to be a better team with the moves made?

Or were they better with Carter, Pietrus, Gortat?

how about I ask everybody here a question, does a move make you better if it improves you now at the expense of becoming bad later?

Young and Stupid
12-18-2010, 10:49 PM
how about I ask everybody here a question, does a move make you better if it improves you now at the expense of becoming bad later?

I think this is something that is being severely overlooked. If the Magic are unable to compete with the team as currently constructed they should be worried about retaining Howard. The Magic have set themselves up so that if this doesn't work they're ****ed because they have absolutely no flexibility for the next three seasons.

Hopefully Howard is different in that he won't leave his team to join another super-team if they're not competing at a high-level, but there were rumors about him being unwilling to sign an extension until the Magic made significant improvements.

Otis Smith took a big-risk making these moves. Maybe it will pay off, but if it doesn't the result could be ugly.

Clarification: When I say "compete" I mean keep up with the Heat and Knicks (assuming they get Melo) in the near future. I think this is the Celtics' last year as a championship-contender, but they could very well prove me wrong. Of course the Magic will be a 2nd round contender, but I'm not sure if this move will get them over the hump.

0nekhmer
12-18-2010, 11:12 PM
looks interesting.. if Hedo can get back to his formal self in orlando..
problem i see is everyone needs the ball now. nelson, gilbert, richardson, hedo, dwight. i haven't seen a lot of gameplay from richardson but he seems to be driving to the hoop everytime so i guess he needs the ball

beasted86
12-19-2010, 12:15 AM
there lineup should be

C. Howard
PF Hedo
SF Richardson
SG Arenas
PG Nelson

Defensively?

:puke:

JordansBulls
12-19-2010, 01:11 PM
why do magic fans always talk down on their players when traded or sign somewhere else. first it was hedo than barnes and now gortat????

Every team does that unless it is the star that is traded.

Anon
12-19-2010, 01:31 PM
Rashard and Vince were both having the worst seasons of their careers. We were not going to win with the team we had. We tried for Melo and CP3 and came up empty in both cases. This was a good trade, no doubt we got better. Whether it gives us a shot at th Lakers and Celtics I do not know. Everything would have to break right for us.

Tony_Starks
12-19-2010, 02:44 PM
Way way better. First off Agent Zero was the best player in the trade. Vince is on his last leg and Rashard was underachieving. Second off you're putting Hedo back in an environment where he thrived and played his best ball. J Rich is better than Peitris.

Losing Gortat...? Oh well, its not like they were giving him consistent playing time anyway and they still have Bass. This puts them back in contention for best in the East IMO. I'd put a starting 5 of Howard, Turk, Arenas, J Rich, and Nelson against any team you can find.

jkcronyn
12-19-2010, 02:51 PM
that line ups too small and it'd have to have two all star performances EVERY NIGHT to win. without size you guys will flounder like the heat did in the first 15 games

RadiantShot
12-19-2010, 02:59 PM
No, they've already mentioned Nelson is starting, and I HIGHLY doubt we're starting turk at the Power-forward position. My speculation would be...

Nelson/Richardson/Turkoglu/Bass/Howard
Arenas/Redick/Richardson/Anderson/Clark, Allen, Orton, ?
Duhon/
Williams/

tredigs
12-19-2010, 03:08 PM
No, they've already mentioned Nelson is starting, and I HIGHLY doubt we're starting turk at the Power-forward position. My speculation would be...

Nelson/Richardson/Turkoglu/Bass/Howard
Arenas/Redick/Richardson/Anderson/Clark, Allen, Orton, ?
Duhon/
Williams/

Agreed. That's what the starting five should be, and probably will be. Jameer needs to start just to offer some continuity from their past offense and to dictate the play, if nothing else. The toughest transitional piece of anyone is going to be Gilbert, so he has to come off the bench initially (if not for good). That gives them one of the most potent players in the league coming on as a 6th man, though. Very scary.

In the games that Dwight stays out of foul trouble, there may not be a more potent team in the league. But in the games he can't, I think they're going to struggle big time.

DwayneMVPwade
12-19-2010, 03:24 PM
I think the Magic has gotten better.

Richardson = Vince
Hedo Plays well for Orlando
Gilbert is better than Lewis.

Orlando starting Line Up:

C- D12
PF- Bass
SF Richardson or Hedo
SG- Gilbert
PG - Nelson

However, The magic have to deal some of their pg

Storch
12-19-2010, 04:10 PM
I would go with a lineup of:

Nelson
Arenas
Qrich
Turk
Howard

Bench rotations of: Jrich, Redick, Bass, duhon.

This will surround Howard with legit 3 point shooters. Qrich can provide some size and defense at the SF position. Let's face it, turk can't defend the great forwards of the league. Jrich and redick can provide energy and offense off the bench. Duhon can run the point, while bass can provide some rest for the PF or C positions.

John Walls Era
12-19-2010, 04:15 PM
make or break move. Otis Smith... have to give him credit.

JordansBulls
12-19-2010, 08:40 PM
I think the Magic has gotten better.

Richardson = Vince
Hedo Plays well for Orlando
Gilbert is better than Lewis.

Orlando starting Line Up:

C- D12
PF- Bass
SF Richardson or Hedo
SG- Gilbert
PG - Nelson

However, The magic have to deal some of their pg

The good thing is that Bass gets to play PF and get time. Also I wouldn't start both Nelson and Gilbert. I'd start Gilbert and JRich with QRich at the SF.

Tha Truth
12-19-2010, 09:20 PM
I'm very interested to see this new group play together.

I still don't think this trade makes the Magic a better team. Hedo played so well with the Magic in his first stint with them because of the make up of that team. That team didn't really have any primary ball handlers other than Jameer which is why Hedo was able to handle te ball so often and make good plays with it. This new team has a lot of players that like to handle the ball (Gilbert, J-Rich, Nelson) plus on top of that their superstar, Dwight Howard, needs his touches. This is why Turk will not be able to be as effective as he was in the past.

Obviously chemistry is going to be an issue since the team has a bunch of new players coming in, but they are going to have to figure it out quickly because they have a very demanding coach in SVG and now is when other teams are really starting to figure it out. Boston and Miami are rolling right now and are slowing running away with the East.

Knowing and accepting their roles is going to be another issue. That why I think Gilbert should come off the bench. Gilbert is a scorer and he is offensive minded so he would be better coming off the bench where he would get the opportunity to look for his offence more.

I think J-Rich will fit in the best out of all the players coming in.

daleja424
12-19-2010, 09:26 PM
i think they are better offensively... but they just got significantly worse defensively and lost pretty much all of their size.

macc
12-19-2010, 09:30 PM
Well I made all the trades in NBA 2k11 and in the end it bumped Orlando's overall total. So obviously they are not better since 2k says so.

JordansBulls
12-19-2010, 10:46 PM
i think they are better offensively... but they just got significantly worse defensively and lost pretty much all of their size.

Seems like Dwight will really have to earn DPOY this year.

Raidaz4Life
12-19-2010, 10:48 PM
I think Orlando is easily the most talented team in the league now, barring huge chemistry issues they are easily my pick to win it all.

thaShady
12-19-2010, 11:01 PM
orlando has probably improved with this deal, but they are still not as good as the celtics or heat. if they can flip jameer for a good pf theyd be nasty. the only thing is that i think jameer is a very good player and is a better fit at PG than arenas these days. orlando should use jrich (sg,sf)) and (pg, more sg)gilbert like the hawks use (more sg,sf) joe johnson and (sg)crawford.

We already have TWO good PFs

Jays Claw
12-19-2010, 11:44 PM
i think they are better offensively... but they just got significantly worse defensively and lost pretty much all of their size.

Not to mention their loss of a bench. This trade pretty much deprived them of all their depth.

D Roses Bulls
12-20-2010, 12:36 AM
Not to mention their loss of a bench. This trade pretty much deprived them of all their depth.

not really, vince and lewis were starters. so you gave up pietrus and gortot. now they lost some depth in the big man department, but i think with arenas coming off the bench, they wont lose the scoring. if anyone can get these guys playing D it will be van gundy.

D Roses Bulls
12-20-2010, 12:41 AM
i think they are better offensively... but they just got significantly worse defensively and lost pretty much all of their size.

I dont think significantly worse, although they did get a little worse IMO on the defense side. The most important thing though is that they have the best interior defender in the game still. It's better to make someone beat you with jump shots cause its harder for someone to beat you with jump shots. If van gundy can get richardson to Play real good D, they are good then on the perimeter part, but the scoring increase they should get should help off set the lack of D.

baghdadbob
12-20-2010, 12:42 AM
Magic have the best 2007 Madden team.

... 2010 not so much.

twoearl
12-20-2010, 12:08 PM
So who is starting at point? Jameer or Gilbert? I see problems arising from this unless one of em is traded.

^^^ This. Nothing else matters until they decide this issue.

ShakeN'Bake
12-20-2010, 12:10 PM
Offensively, yes. I believe this makes even harder to double on Howard.

thekmp211
12-20-2010, 12:31 PM
apparently jameer is starting. gilbert will be a 6th man. still think nelson gets traded, especially if gil starts playing well

SteBO
12-20-2010, 12:34 PM
apparently jameer is starting. gilbert will be a 6th man. still think nelson gets traded, especially if gil starts playing well

Jameer isn't going anywhere

macc
12-20-2010, 01:32 PM
Not to mention their loss of a bench. This trade pretty much deprived them of all their depth.




:confused: Magic starting 5 Nelson, J Rich, Hedo, Bass, Howard

Magic Bench - Gilbert Arenas, JJ Reddick, Q Rich, Ryan Anderson, Earl Clark

3rd stringers - Duhon, J Will, Orton


Besides the Center position, what depth did we lose? Our bench players would start on 80% of the teams in the NBA.

ShakeN'Bake
12-20-2010, 01:37 PM
:confused: Magic starting 5 Nelson, J Rich, Hedo, Bass, Howard

Magic Bench - Gilbert Arenas, JJ Reddick, Q Rich, Ryan Anderson, Earl Clark

3rd stringers - Duhon, J Will, Orton


Besides the Center position, what depth did we lose? Our bench players would start on 80% of the teams in the NBA.


:eyebrow: besides Gil, who I doubt would start for 80% at this point, which players are you talking about and where do you think they could start?

beasted86
12-20-2010, 01:48 PM
I just don't see how the Magic work out their lineup.

None of Nelson, Arenas, J-Rich, or Turkoglu strike me as the 6th man type. Also, outside of Nelson, any one of those guys would instantly be the highest paid 6th man in the league excluding Jamaal Crawford.

D Roses Bulls
12-20-2010, 01:54 PM
:eyebrow: besides Gil, who I doubt would start for 80% at this point, which players are you talking about and where do you think they could start?

well Gilbert, JJ could start for some teams including my bulls, duhon was starting for the knicks last year. Also Anderson definitely has the potential to start as well as Williams.

RadiantShot
12-20-2010, 01:54 PM
Hey. YOU MAD? <3
I think the lineup is confirmed tonight as Nelson/Richardson/Turkoglu/Bass/Howard

They said that Gil and Nelson would get around 32 minutes a piece...So that would mean around 18 whilst simultaneously on the floor together. Jeesh.

king4day
12-20-2010, 01:56 PM
I think lateral. This reminds me of the Suns when we traded for Shaq. Fixed one need (height) but exposed others (P n R defense, FT shooting).

This trade is exciting but they have two of practically the same player in Richardson and Arenas. Now they have too many guys who need the ball to be effective.
I think I would have liked this team had they not done the Arenas deal. They'd have become even more lethal with the 3pt shooting and fixed their ball handling needs.

They will struggle out of the gate like Miami did, trying to find what works. THey are fortunate Richardson expires after this year just incase it's a disaster.

Fun Fact: They have two richardsons possibly starting for them now :), Do they add a 'Q' and 'J' before their names on the jerseys now?

ShakeN'Bake
12-20-2010, 02:13 PM
well Gilbert, JJ could start for some teams including my bulls, duhon was starting for the knicks last year. Also Anderson definitely has the potential to start as well as Williams.

Oh I agree with you. Just he said 80%, which isn't true.

Il Mago 7
12-20-2010, 02:15 PM
they have sick depth butt not better then the mavs

Tony_Starks
12-20-2010, 02:52 PM
The ultimate win for them would be if Gilbert can play well enough to force Nelson to the bench. Nelson has been the glaring weakness for them as far as not knowing how to get D12 the ball and getting absolutely murdered by Rondo.

Not saying Arenas is great defender either but at least he's big enough to cause a matchup problem on the other end and he's tall enough to see over the defender to feed the post. Not to mention his shot is waaaay better.

Chronz
12-20-2010, 02:55 PM
Dude, what's wrong with you? seriously. Nobody is talking all around play but on any given night J Rich will hang 32 and Arenas 25 much in the same fashion as Wade & the Queen.

LOL you didnt read his post did you, hes not talking about all around play hes talking about scoring.

Any given night anyone in the league can score, what matters is the likelihood of that player scoring big and his consistency/efficiency in doing so.

When it comes to scoring, Wade and Bron can outdo any tandem

Maynard Keenan
12-20-2010, 03:03 PM
I just dont of the Arenas trade. I loved the Suns trade, because basically you upgraded at SG and at SF, but the Lewis move dosnt make sence. By trading Gortat you are now thin at the power forward spot, and you are now very heavy in the backcourt. Without doing the Arenas trade you lineup would have been:

PG Jameer Nelson
SG Jason Richardson
SF Hedo Turkaglu
PF Rashard Lewis
C Dwight Howard

Key Bench guys: Sg JJ Reddick, SG/SF Q-rich, PG Chris Duhon, PF Bradon Bass.

That would have been perfect. Now you trade away your PF and have to rely on Bass much more just to add a guy to an already solidified deep backcourt. Not to mention a guy who has been a cancer to his team for years and a guy who is not a pure pg and is selfish. I dont get the Wash move at all

pebloemer
12-20-2010, 03:18 PM
I just dont of the Arenas trade. I loved the Suns trade, because basically you upgraded at SG and at SF, but the Lewis move dosnt make sence. By trading Gortat you are now thin at the power forward spot, and you are now very heavy in the backcourt. Without doing the Arenas trade you lineup would have been:

PG Jameer Nelson
SG Jason Richardson
SF Hedo Turkaglu
PF Rashard Lewis
C Dwight Howard

Key Bench guys: Sg JJ Reddick, SG/SF Q-rich, PG Chris Duhon, PF Bradon Bass.

That would have been perfect. Now you trade away your PF and have to rely on Bass much more just to add a guy to an already solidified deep backcourt. Not to mention a guy who has been a cancer to his team for years and a guy who is not a pure pg and is selfish. I dont get the Wash move at all

Marc Stein also made note of this viewpoint on espn. I tend to agree. I don't quite understand the need to swap Lewis for Arenas. Arenas can certainly score, but there is only one ball to go around between Turk, Richardson, Nelson, Arenas, Howard and Reddick. It will be interesting to see how they work out the chemistry and possible defensive issues from these deals. If they work out the kinks, they could be very dangerous, but Howard will need to play huge minutes and stay out of foul trouble to anchor this squad on defense.

masalex1205
12-20-2010, 03:35 PM
This whole situation reeks of desperation to convince Dwight to stay. I'm starting to hate how these superstars are holding franchises hostage and forcing them to mortgage their futures. This is going to be a big issue in the upcoming CBA negotiations.

I can understand one of these moves for Orlando but not both. That's just a TON of salary to take on in the future all around. I just can't understand why Otis Smith would make both of these deals at the same time. (SIDENOTE: why is Hedo all of sudden worth this contract after he's sucked for 2 years when he wasn't good enough for this contract a couple years ago when he was killing it).

They shouldn't have gotten rid of Gortat, he's great Dwight insurance and an excellent backup which is needed because Dwight is constantly in foul trouble. Also, having a solid rotation of bigs is essential to winning a championship and this was kind of an advantage they had over Miami and a plus going against Boston.

just don't get this

Tony_Starks
12-20-2010, 04:08 PM
The fact that Arenas and Turk have played really big in the playoffs before and are still capable of taking over a game or series is why he took the gamble.

I think its obvious that Vince taking over games days are over, and Rashard was never reliable when it mattered. Like I said its a gamble but they weren't going to beat Boston with what they had so to me its worth the risk.....

wa77ss
12-20-2010, 04:20 PM
its not going to look like such a gamble once they start meshing, plus there is still one more trade to make. JJ Redick has some trade value and we have a few extra guys we could trade for a big.


Rashard for Arenas was great for both teams. Arenas is a better scorer (more of Vince replacement) and Rashard was replaced by Turk as stretch four. It doesn't matter right now that we lost some front court depth because Orlando won't be employing the stretch four tactic much at all anymore. What would be really nice is if Anderson could beef up a little and become a solid post defender. There is still plenty of time to get a true center for backup, until then Howard needs to play smarter which he has been doing lately. I can't wait to see arenas throw some lobs to Dwight tonight against ATL......start of the new era right now.

And of course Washington got a great 3 man in the trade, regardless of what his stats show this season.

JordansBulls
12-20-2010, 05:00 PM
The fact that Arenas and Turk have played really big in the playoffs before and are still capable of taking over a game or series is why he took the gamble.

I think its obvious that Vince taking over games days are over, and Rashard was never reliable when it mattered. Like I said its a gamble but they weren't going to beat Boston with what they had so to me its worth the risk.....

They don't need to take over a series, but they do some games when the offense is stagnant.

ManRam
12-20-2010, 05:09 PM
Hedo is not going to start at PF. We tried it in the past, and it just is a disaster. He's more of a perimeter player than even Shard is. There's no way it would work.

Nelson/Richardson/Hedo/Bass/Howard. SVG said Nelson is starting, and that he and Arenas will both get 30+ minutes a game...with a good amount of it being at the same time. He said he's eager to get Jameer running around screens off-the-ball...and I have to say, that excites me a ton too. He's a deadly shooter. Defensively, the backcourt, especially with Jameer and Gil out there at the same time, scares me. I do think Richardson buys into playing defense a lot more than Vince does. I think Arenas isn't a piss poor defender, I just don't think he tries. SVG won't allow that. Hedo isn't good or bad, he just is.

I'm excited for the offense. I think with SVG's coaching and gameplanning, our defense will remain in the top 5-7...the offense is what needs to improve, and I can't imagine it not being better now.

And backup center won't be an issue for long. Otis will get something done.

SteveNash
12-20-2010, 05:13 PM
Rashard Lewis is complete trash. Magic made a wise move in dumping him. They're in a win now mode and their previous team was headed nowhere. Now they have a real shot at a title. Washington was extremely stupid to give up on Arenas, that team is headed nowhere hopefully Wall is able to escape. Phoenix also made some great moves, but team management never seems to know what direction they want to head in.

RadiantShot
12-20-2010, 05:55 PM
Rashard Lewis is complete trash. Magic made a wise move in dumping him. They're in a win now mode and their previous team was headed nowhere. Now they have a real shot at a title. Washington was extremely stupid to give up on Arenas, that team is headed nowhere hopefully Wall is able to escape. Phoenix also made some great moves, but team management never seems to know what direction they want to head in.

:clap:

OH, GOD. STEVE NASH. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN!?

topdog
12-20-2010, 06:21 PM
J-Rich Replaces Carter along the lines of an even swap.

Hedo gives them a new dimension with his point-forward play that actually had worked for them making up for the offensive match-up advantage of Lewis.

Gil can play off the ball as a multi-dimensional scorer-passer and clutch player which they were missing.

Idk about depth at C now though if Dwight gets into foul trouble.

Bishnoff
12-20-2010, 06:34 PM
Better, much better.

jdmd3
12-20-2010, 06:58 PM
Definitely better on paper. Improvement on the court will largely depend on how SVG uses these new players and how Gilbert Arenas performs.

Confusious
12-20-2010, 07:03 PM
Not sure how well they'll actually perform. That's the question.

PAOboston
12-20-2010, 07:18 PM
i dont think it makes them better imo. it seems to me like a desperation move on their part. hedo/j rich are skilled offensive players but their defense is lacking imo. while pietrus and gortat werent great i thought they fit in well in orlando offering good defense, rebounding off the bench (gortat), and spot up 3pt shooting (pietrus). also throw in arena who literally jacks up shots from anywhere and any angle on the floor and his awful contract and i dont think it makes any sense. if they are gonna trade to get hedo/j rich, i thought it would make more sense to keep lewis b/c he fit better.

looking at it from a celtics perspective, the magic dont match up very well with the celtics right now.

WeBallin
12-20-2010, 07:21 PM
I said it was a Lateral move......i'll tell you why, no stats just my observation, it would appear to me that Nelson,Arenas are the same type of guard(SHOT FIRST), an i think losin Gortat will be huge, he was a great Compliment player for DH, JRich, he's a homer, but i think he's another lewis Minus all the money, all he does is hang around the 3pt an shoot 3's all day, Hedo, may or may not return to his old sefl, we shall see, but i view this as a wait in see project! cause none of the players that the Magic acquired have had deep playoff runs still no experience IMO......

OBredskin
12-20-2010, 07:30 PM
Alot is depending on the knees of Arenas, Turk, and J. Rich.....if those six knees can hold up...they got a chance.

JordansBulls
12-20-2010, 11:45 PM
Probably going to take awhile for them to be any good.

RadiantShot
12-20-2010, 11:48 PM
Yeah. It's going to take a couple of games. I can't really get mad at this last loss for any reason, whatsoever. The upside is...I love seeing Hedo back in a Magic uniform. ;)

VinSUNity
12-21-2010, 12:05 AM
Vince Carter, Jason Richardson, Gilbert Arenas, Rashard Lewis. All these type of guys dont average just 10 er 12 shots a game and they dont score under 15 ppg if they feeling good.
but in Orlando's system. They will find a way to do that. Just a really poor offensive team.

cant judge off of one game though.

Duncan = Donkey
12-21-2010, 12:29 AM
Yeah. It's going to take a couple of games. I can't really get mad at this last loss for any reason, whatsoever. The upside is...I love seeing Hedo back in a Magic uniform. ;)

I dont know if this is spose to be sarcasm:o

VinSUNity
12-21-2010, 12:49 AM
i dont know if this is spose to be sarcasm:o

+1

RadiantShot
12-21-2010, 01:47 AM
It's not. I really like Hedo. He worked perfectly in our system, and was one of the only reasons we made it to the Finals when we did, after we took out the Queen. He plays the P&R perfectly with Dwight, so I'm happy to have him back.