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View Full Version : Travel Or No Travel?



TheBomb255
12-16-2010, 12:18 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIFP2WAmZHo&feature=player_embedded

Manu's game winning shot.

Thoughts? I will admit it was one hell of a shot, but he traveled big time.

210Don
12-16-2010, 12:19 AM
always gotta hate on us
sig check

ChI_ShIzzLe
12-16-2010, 12:20 AM
The guy in the red shirt after he made the shot..I WANT A GIF!!

TheBomb255
12-16-2010, 12:31 AM
I'm not hating on the Spurs lol, you guys got away with EVERYTHING in this game. It was an obvious travel, plus the scorekeeper messed up on the same play, PLUS Manu pushed off.

How about that Bogut play that was called a block? 3 PT swing right there late in the game.

Bucks should have won this, no questions asked, but the refs didn't call an OBVIOUS travel. Would have been about 1.6 seconds left, and a tied game for the Bucks.

Mplsman
12-16-2010, 12:55 AM
That was some terrible video quality.

hgtiger32
12-16-2010, 12:59 AM
just watch it on espn.com or nba.com

lol i saw a bunch of my friends status on facebook complaining about it, so i had to see for myself...lol that was such a travel its not even funny. but when you think about it, gotta give props to manu cuz trying to do that without dribbling isn't a normal basketball move.

but without a doubt, a travel

TheBomb255
12-16-2010, 01:01 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=palsOtUOnzA&feature=player_embedded

Better view of the travel.

bholly
12-16-2010, 01:01 AM
Looks like a travel to me.

210Don
12-16-2010, 01:02 AM
just watch it on espn.com or nba.com

lol i saw a bunch of my friends status on facebook complaining about it, so i had to see for myself...lol that was such a travel its not even funny. but when you think about it, gotta give props to manu cuz trying to do that without dribbling isn't a normal basketball move.

but without a doubt, a travel

i see a step back move and gw shot everyone in nba travel

krest213
12-16-2010, 01:04 AM
it's call an European jump-step
no biggie
Manu does it all the time
;)

TheBomb255
12-16-2010, 01:06 AM
i see a step back move and gw shot everyone in nba travel

Never knew you get 4 steps in basketball.

Kinda like how they called this a block:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Esd6CAhyA8g&feature=player_embedded#!

Textbook charge? No?

John Walls Era
12-16-2010, 01:07 AM
If a guy did a hop step into the paint, it wouldn't be a travel. He just hop stepped backwards...

210Don
12-16-2010, 01:08 AM
either way we were up by 18 we let this game go but we arent the mavs and lose it because manu is clutch like always

sargon21
12-16-2010, 01:29 AM
how in the world is that not a travel?

210Don
12-16-2010, 01:30 AM
man the hate amazes me.....21 & 3

krest213
12-16-2010, 01:35 AM
how in the world is that not a travel?

Because
Manu is Half man and Half ..............
machine:clap:

TheBomb255
12-16-2010, 01:41 AM
Gotta love Andrew Bogut.

He tweeted after the game:


Tough loss. Will be very interesting to check the film on certain little things.hmmmm. Anyway we are off and TRAVELLING back to Milwaukee!

bholly
12-16-2010, 01:42 AM
man the hate amazes me.....21 & 3

It amazes me that anytime anyone disagrees it must be because they're a 'hater'.

I like the Spurs - they're one of the few teams whose jersey I own. But a travel is a travel, whether it's for your team or not.

210Don
12-16-2010, 01:44 AM
looked like a foul too

krest213
12-16-2010, 01:46 AM
Manu Ginobili - Step back Jumper (walk-through)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y932jIh6IA&feature=player_embedded#!

Supa
12-16-2010, 01:47 AM
Poor Bucks, beaten by travel; they should file formal complaint.

Imaging if the whole NBA league doing this, NBA games will never be the same.

---

Giraffes Rule
12-16-2010, 01:47 AM
From what I can see on youtube, it looks like he picks up his dribble as one foot goes forward and jumps back. Is that a travel?

_Supreme_
12-16-2010, 01:48 AM
Looks like a perfectly good step-back to me.

210Don
12-16-2010, 01:50 AM
Looks like a perfectly good step-back to me.

thank you the traveling complaint is weird looked good never knew this would be big topic

tredigs
12-16-2010, 01:51 AM
If a guy did a hop step into the paint, it wouldn't be a travel. He just hop stepped backwards...

Exactly my thoughts. I see absolutely no travel, and I just re-watched it on my league pass multiple times. It's an awkward looking drop back shot, but he does this ALL THE TIME. No clue where there's a travel here.

static_inferno
12-16-2010, 01:52 AM
Didn't look like a travel to me. I saw dribbling, a two foot gather, and a gamewinner. How the OP saw 4 steps I don't know.

And to all you Spurs fans: ride this high as long as you can because come playoff time the geezers are gonna run out of gas and the CHAMPS will reign supreme again.

NY-SportsFan
12-16-2010, 01:52 AM
man the hate amazes me.....21 & 3

Dude, nobody is "hating". You are being pretty biased.

The Spurs are great, but they clearly got away with one there.

Giraffes Rule
12-16-2010, 01:52 AM
Exactly my thoughts. I see absolutely no travel, and I just re-watched it on my league pass multiple times. It's an awkward looking drop back shot, but he does this ALL THE TIME. No clue where there's a travel here.

Pretty much everything Ginobili does is awkward looking. :laugh2:

D1JM
12-16-2010, 01:56 AM
Looks like a perfectly good step-back to me.

i thought as long as you jumped and land on both feet it can be counted as a continuation play? so i think its legit

NYY 26 to 7
12-16-2010, 02:37 AM
wow I don't know how you can rationalize it. Anyway you look at it, its a travel. Refs missed it move on. Also its not hate stop with that. I know you maybe want to be hated on but even with that record I don't think anyone really cares enough about the Spurs to hate. Sorry man in fact the Spurs are quite likeable (although I guess I can see how Ginobli rubs people the wrong with with flops and other stuff) but its a team of good guys who really don't talk much have always worked hard and done things the right way as a team. Your not hating material you should be ok with that and enjoy your teams long run of success. Refs miss calls it ok to man up sometimes and say yea they might have missed that one but thats the game.

Avenged
12-16-2010, 02:42 AM
It was one of the ugliest stepbacks I've ever seen, a very wide one as well. No travel from my view.

dodie53
12-16-2010, 03:00 AM
obvious travel
and
i hate the spurs

sugarrayray
12-16-2010, 03:01 AM
i see a step back move and gw shot everyone in nba travel

It's just amazing how people just lie to themselves and justify something like this. You know that this was a travel. NBA "rules" or not, he walked. If someone on the Bucks did that, the travel would have been called.

You can talk about the Spurs record all you want, but deep down you know that if the refs did not completely help your team, the Bucks came in and beat the Spurs in San Antonio. With out the help of the refs, there is nothing San Antonio could have done to stop it.

All they could do is sit back and watch how they squandered their 18 point lead, and didn't have the power to do anything about it.

When it comes to the playoffs and the NBA decides that the Lakers need cheating more than the Spurs, lets see how much you like it when Kobe takes his 4 steps and eliminates the Spurs from the playoffs on a buzzer beater. I wonder if at that moment you'll say "i see a step back move and gw shot everyone in nba travel."

Raph12
12-16-2010, 03:02 AM
Bad calls and non-calls are common in the NBA, if you're going to complain about officiating, just don't watch because it really won't' be worth your time.

sugarrayray
12-16-2010, 03:03 AM
It was one of the ugliest stepbacks I've ever seen, a very wide one as well. No travel from my view.

Of course it's no travel from your view, you see Kobe do stuff like that very other game. Your used to not seeing that called. Either way, you can't take 4 steps in basketball without dribbling. You also can't push off. But then again if I watched Kobe every game I would assume that push offs are very much legal in this league.

tredigs
12-16-2010, 03:05 AM
It's just amazing how people just lie to themselves and justify something like this. You know that this was a travel. NBA "rules" or not, he walked. If someone on the Bucks did that, the travel would have been called.

You can talk about the Spurs record all you want, but deep down you know that if the refs did not completely help your team, the Bucks came in and beat the Spurs in San Antonio. With out the help of the refs, there is nothing San Antonio could have done to stop it.

All they could do is sit back and watch how they squandered their 18 point lead, and didn't have the power to do anything about it.

When it comes to the playoffs and the NBA decides that the Lakers need cheating more than the Spurs, lets see how much you like it when Kobe takes his 4 steps and eliminates the Spurs from the playoffs on a buzzer beater. I wonder if at that moment you'll say "i see a step back move and gw shot everyone in nba travel."

Can you explain the travel on this play, intelligently (not the "dood that was like 4 steps!" that we're seeing)?

That's an open request to anyone saying that this is a travel. I could be wrong that it isn't a completely legit play, but I don't think so.

For those of you who want to actually learn more about what is/isn't a travel, I'd recommend following HardwoodParoxyism.com and their "Have Ball, Will Travel:" ongoing segments. Here's one example: http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/12/04/have-ball-will-travel-dirk-nowitzki/

cheaptrikz
12-16-2010, 03:18 AM
The guy in the red shirt after he made the shot..I WANT A GIF!!

Lmao desi ppl never suprise me.

TheBomb255
12-16-2010, 03:36 AM
I'll give you guys freeze frame images:

Frame 1: http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/4457/97276984.png
Frame 2: http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7046/44813735.png
Frame 3: http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2663/73597034.png

Picks ball up. Moves left foot back (legal pivot on right foot). Jumps off both feet and lands on both feet. Travel.


Please explain how that isn't a travel?

BlinkManJan02
12-16-2010, 03:39 AM
I've always found the Spurs very respectable. Idk why, just a classy franchise. I usually cheer for them come playoff time. The one telling people to stop hating...rofl. Jesus, he does want to be hated on, how pathetic.

That really looked like a travel though..too bad the Bucks couldn't have stolen one again. Aren't they the team the Spurs have had the most trouble with in the past ten years or something? I remember seeing a stat on it or something a couple seasons ago. Sort of ironic.

Niro
12-16-2010, 06:48 AM
wow how did they not see that wtf

Bruno
12-16-2010, 07:02 AM
It was a travel. It was 1-2 steps followed by a jump-stop. That's four steps.

Niro
12-16-2010, 07:14 AM
he takes a step back (counts as 1 step) then does a jump stop (=2 steps)
1+2=3
travel

knicksfan42
12-16-2010, 08:14 AM
It was a travel, refs knew it, just didn't call it.

kdspurman
12-16-2010, 09:25 AM
Everyone who said "that was an obvious travel" must not understand the rules of the league. Once manu picks up the ball and stops his dribble, he is allowed 2 steps which is what he took. Once he stops dribbling, and he picks the ball up, he does not have to stop on a dime, he is allowed to stops just as if you go for a dunk or layup, you pick up your dribble and take to strides to the basket. This is exactly what he did, except he picked up his dribble, and took his 2 steps. Just not in a way you're used to seeing. Scott Skiles never once signaled for a travel did he? Not to mention the video quality is horrible so you can't even properly dissect the situation. Watch it on espn or nba.com the different angles and you will see he did not travel

thekmp211
12-16-2010, 10:34 AM
no travel. great move.

if he had landed on his right foot first, or thrown another step/pivot in there (which it looked like he did for a sec) then it's illegal. as is, it's just another sick trick in the bag.

EDIT: well goddamn it IS a travel. follow:

drives, ends forward motion on his right foot.

jumps back, lands on left foot ever so quickly. from that angle it looks like he kinda drags his foot above the court, but he definitely touches the hardwood.

THEN he begins a jump-step.



one too many steps, manu. TRAVEL! anyone wish to corroborate?

ShakeN'Bake
12-16-2010, 10:44 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIFP2WAmZHo&feature=player_embedded

Manu's game winning shot.

Thoughts? I will admit it was one hell of a shot, but he traveled big time.

since when do they call traveling in the NBA anyways?

Basketash
12-16-2010, 10:45 AM
didn't look like a travel, an akward step back but not a travel IMO

Supa
12-16-2010, 10:47 AM
I changed my mind - saw another video with different angle, and I can see why the ref didn't call it travel.

It's such an awkward move; I never seen anyone else who took 1 step + a 2-foot-hop-step backward to make a jump shot.

---

redsox0717
12-16-2010, 10:48 AM
I changed my mind - saw another video with different angle, and I can see why the ref didn't call it travel.

It's such an awkward move; I never seen anyone else who took 1 step + 2 foot hop step backward to make a jump shot.

---

Well it's Manu being Manu. He does a ton of **** that no one in the NBA does.

Hawkeye15
12-16-2010, 12:13 PM
man the hate amazes me.....21 & 3

what is with your responses. Everyone knows the Spurs are 21-3. It still doesn't change the fact that it doesn't make you a hater when you agree that taking 4 steps is indeed a travel.
Just chill and enjoy your team's early success

Hawkeye15
12-16-2010, 12:15 PM
honestly, I didn't even need to look at the video, and I can tell you for a fact its travel. Um, its the NBA, Manu is a star, in a game winning situation. He literally would have had to not take a dribble the entire possession to get a travel called.
I watched Scola travel 20 times last night. Its the NBA, who cares

krest213
12-16-2010, 12:34 PM
honestly, I didn't even need to look at the video, and I can tell you for a fact its travel. Um, its the NBA, Manu is a star, in a game winning situation. He literally would have had to not take a dribble the entire possession to get a travel called.
I watched Scola travel 20 times last night. Its the NBA, who cares

then you have no say

Hawkeye15
12-16-2010, 12:36 PM
then you have no say

I watched the game last night. I don't need to see that video, or a replay. And even if I hadn't watched it, and I read thru this thread, it would be as about as easy as tying my shoe to virtually guarantee he traveled. Its the NBA.

drama1386
12-16-2010, 12:37 PM
yep, it was a travel. but you know the refs weren't going to call it on a potential game winning shot...

anyways, it was a tough game and I really applaud my team on how hard they fought in the second half. but the spurs don't have the best record in the NBA for no reason and I've got to get them some credit. they are a championship caliber team and manu is insanely good, one of my favorite players int he NBA.

StriveGreatness
12-16-2010, 12:41 PM
Travel without a doubt.

drama1386
12-16-2010, 12:47 PM
I watched the game last night. I don't need to see that video, or a replay. And even if I hadn't watched it, and I read thru this thread, it would be as about as easy as tying my shoe to virtually guarantee he traveled. Its the NBA.

:clap:

PhillyFaninLA
12-16-2010, 12:53 PM
Certain players get away with their move. Manu does this a lot. Iverson had the cross over palming the ball (I'm a huge Iverson fan to). I think refs kind of accept it if its part of your move and your a name guy.

Lo Porto
12-16-2010, 12:58 PM
No doubt it was a walk but nobody is shocked that the Spurs got preferential treatment by the refs. If Manu gets called for walks and Tim Duncan gets treated like Shaq in terms of contact down low, the Spurs wouldn't have any titles. Instead, Manu gets away with walks all day and Duncan gets called for fouls that PG's don't even get in the paint. But that's the NBA and star treatment.

29$JerZ
12-16-2010, 01:01 PM
Argentinean Crab Step

krest213
12-16-2010, 01:01 PM
I watched the game last night. I don't need to see that video, or a replay. And even if I hadn't watched it, and I read thru this thread, it would be as about as easy as tying my shoe to virtually guarantee he traveled. Its the NBA.


If anything, Manu should have gotten called for the foul, but he played through it and got the shot off on a BIG stepback. That big stepback is one of Manu's shots.

krest213
12-16-2010, 01:03 PM
No doubt it was a walk but nobody is shocked that the Spurs got preferential treatment by the refs. If Manu gets called for walks and Tim Duncan gets treated like Shaq in terms of contact down low, the Spurs wouldn't have any titles. Instead, Manu gets away with walks all day and Duncan gets called for fouls that PG's don't even get in the paint. But that's the NBA and star treatment.

:facepalm:

macc
12-16-2010, 01:12 PM
That wasn't a travel. It was a jump stop. He picked up his dribble and hopped. You see it all the time during layups, just not much for jumpshots, either way it wasn't a travel.

Move on with your life now. :-)

Supa
12-16-2010, 01:41 PM
I honestly hope no kid out there will try to emulate this and use it during a pick-up game.

First of all, the shooting percentage will be very low, and even if the shot is good, there will be endless arguments on the court. :rolleyes:

---

krest213
12-16-2010, 06:04 PM
Manu masterpiece saves Spurs

Giraffes Rule
12-16-2010, 06:23 PM
No doubt it was a walk but nobody is shocked that the Spurs got preferential treatment by the refs. If Manu gets called for walks and Tim Duncan gets treated like Shaq in terms of contact down low, the Spurs wouldn't have any titles. Instead, Manu gets away with walks all day and Duncan gets called for fouls that PG's don't even get in the paint. But that's the NBA and star treatment.

:facepalm: If you honestly believe this, you might be a paranoid schizophrenic.

Seriously, how anyone could think the ref consciously decided that that was a travel and decided not to call it? This debate has gong on for what, 5 pages? It's obvious that at the very least it was a difficult call to make real time.

Amaradio15
12-16-2010, 07:14 PM
Is it just me or did Ginobili badly travel on his game winning shot vs the Bucks? He took like 4 steps before making the shot and he was right in front of the ref! I'm a Pistons fan but wanted to share my thoughts..

SteBO
12-16-2010, 07:21 PM
The game's over. Who cares

sep11ie
12-16-2010, 07:27 PM
Traveling? In a NBA game? Get outta here!

CavsYanksDuke
12-16-2010, 07:28 PM
^^So all games that are concluded are no longer worth analyzing?

Have you ever seen ESPN? THAT'S ALL THEY DO. Who cares? Every guy ever.

210Don
12-16-2010, 07:48 PM
theres been a thread already

shep33
12-16-2010, 08:49 PM
yeah it was a travel. But traveling is called in basketball not the NBA

shep33
12-16-2010, 08:50 PM
Funny thing actually, my friend had gone to this convention where this NBA ref was, and she was talking about how the NBA tells the refs to let that stuff slide at times.

tredigs
12-16-2010, 10:19 PM
Can you explain the travel on this play, intelligently (not the "dood that was like 4 steps!" that we're seeing)?

That's an open request to anyone saying that this is a travel. I could be wrong that it isn't a completely legit play, but I don't think so.

For those of you who want to actually learn more about what is/isn't a travel, I'd recommend following HardwoodParoxyism.com and their "Have Ball, Will Travel:" ongoing segments. Here's one example: http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/12/04/have-ball-will-travel-dirk-nowitzki/



At first glance, I agreed with Brett. Ginobili seems to take two steps before going into his jump stop, which would certainly constitute a travel. However, a closer look at the clip reveals that Manu’s play was actually a completely legal maneuver.

The errors in judgment primarily seem to stem from a plant of Ginobili’s right foot just prior to his step-back and jump stop. While viewing the play from the original broadcast angle at full speed, it indeed appears that Ginobili picks up his dribble before planting that right foot. But if we view the play from another angle, it’s clear that when Manu plants his right foot in what many are counting as his “first” step, the ball isn’t even in his hand. This step isn’t a step at all, at least not for the purposes of any kind of violation. Instead, Ginobili’s step count triggers as soon as he’s gathered and gained control of the ball, which occurs after the right foot has already been planted.

According to the NBA Rulebook, “The first step occurs when a foot, or both feet, touch the floor after gaining control of the ball.” Thus, Ginobili’s step-back (with his left foot, prior to the jump stop) is his actual first step. The rulebook also states that “a progressing player who jumps off one foot on the first step may land with both feet simultaneously for the second step.” Ginobili does just that, and gives us a fine example of a perfectly legal jump stop. He jumps immediately afterward to fire up the game-winner, which means for those counting at home, the entire sequence consisted of a rulebook-entitled two steps.


http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/12/16/have-ball-will-travel-manu-ginobili/

^An in-depth look at the play from the exact site I was mentioning.

No travel. I win. Next ; ]