PDA

View Full Version : Amir Johnson - was he worth it?



Dol-Fan
12-15-2010, 06:54 PM
I'm posting this in the NBA forum because many laughed at the Raptors for signing Amir Johnson to that 5 year, $30 mil. contract this summer (actually 4/23 with an option for that 5th year to make it worth 30, according to ShamSports).

But after a solid end to the season last year, he's picked up right where he left off this season. In 25 games, he's putting up 9.3 points and 6.3 rebounds in just 22.6 minutes. The fouls are still a problem with Amir, and he's got to get that under control (averaging 5.9 per 36, but his /36 numbers are very, very good at 14.8 points, 10.0 rebounds, 1.8 blocks, and 1.3 steals.

He's rocking a PER of 20.2, TS% of .641, only an 11.7 TOV% and a very good (best on the Raptors) individual offensive rating of 130.

He's also found the ability to hit a jumper, as well as convert at the free throw line (over 80%).

He has arguably been the Raptors best player this year, and is getting paid a bit less than Marcin Gortat and a little more than Darko Milicic.

If you're going to criticize Bryan Colangelo for his spending this summer, it ought to be for his signing of Linas Kleiza, not for re-upping Amir Johnson.

What does the NBA forum think? Was he worth the extension?

Kashmir13579
12-15-2010, 06:57 PM
haven't watched enough of the raptors. only the games they've played against NY

Hawkeye15
12-15-2010, 06:57 PM
while its a bit early to rate this deal, since its a pretty long one, he has played very well this season in limited minutes. An offrtg of 130 is outstanding. So if we are gauging it off last year, and his much improved start in the first 20+ games this season, it looks to be a wise investment.

GeekInThePink
12-15-2010, 07:02 PM
"He has arguably been the Raptors best player this year"

As a Raptors fan who watches every game, I think you are wrong, my top 4 are,

1. Bargnani
2. Evans (when he was healthy)
3. Weems
4. Johnson/DeRozan

Slimsim
12-15-2010, 07:03 PM
I like him

Swashcuff
12-15-2010, 07:05 PM
He's a decent player but IMO he wasn't worth it. Quite frankly I'd take Ty Thomas over him any day of the week, maybe not for that contract but certainly as a player.

Gators123
12-15-2010, 07:06 PM
....

WolvesJagsOs
12-15-2010, 07:06 PM
I really like Amir's game, I think he was worth it.

The_Mac22
12-15-2010, 07:06 PM
I like him

GodsSon
12-15-2010, 07:07 PM
"He has arguably been the Raptors best player this year"

As a Raptors fan who watches every game, I think you are wrong, my top 4 are,

1. Bargnani
2. Evans (when he was healthy)
3. Weems
4. Johnson/DeRozan

Your entire post became irrelevant when I saw Weems' name at 3...sorry man

WolvesJagsOs
12-15-2010, 07:07 PM
Is he still having problems staying out of foul trouble?

the guy that posted this thread said it lol, to your qusetion, yes.

Gators123
12-15-2010, 07:08 PM
the guy that posted this thread said it lol, to your qusetion, yes.

:o haha I missed that.

DwayneMVPwade
12-15-2010, 07:11 PM
"He has arguably been the Raptors best player this year"

As a Raptors fan who watches every game, I think you are wrong, my top 4 are,

1. Bargnani
2. Evans (when he was healthy)
3. Weems
4. Johnson/DeRozan

??? How is Evans our second best player??? Evans cant score the ball and cant play d for his life.

I question that you are Raptor fan, How is weems better than derozan? Have you seen Weems play lately, turning the ball over, taking unadvised shots. Amir Johnson is better than Reggie Evans. Amir might not get as much rebs, but better scorer, defender.

Anyways as long as Amir can stay out of foul trouble he is a good investment.

GeekInThePink
12-15-2010, 07:12 PM
Your entire post became irrelevant when I saw Weems' name at 3...sorry man

That's actually a mistake I thought I edited out, I meant

1. Bargnani
2. Evans (when healthy)
3. DeRozan
4. Johnson/Weems

That's my opinion lol

Dol-Fan
12-15-2010, 07:14 PM
That's actually a mistake I thought I edited out, I meant

1. Bargnani
2. Evans (when healthy)
3. DeRozan
4. Johnson/Weems

That's my opinion lol

That's fine because it's your opinion, but stats and more advanced basketball minds think otherwise. Bargnani plays no D, Evans has no O, DeRozan is questionable (although has shown flashes) on both sides, and Weems has been AWFUL so even having him in the top 8 of Raps players this year invalidates your opinion.

Amir has not only been the most consistent player for the Raptors, but he impacts the game most on both sides of the ball.

Dol-Fan
12-15-2010, 07:16 PM
:o haha I missed that.

He is getting better, though. For his first 5 years in the league, he was averaging over 6 fouls /36. Mind you, he's barely under that number now, but he is having games recently where he'll play big minutes and only pick up 2 or 3 fouls. Hopefully that trend becomes more consistent as the season goes on.

GeekInThePink
12-15-2010, 07:17 PM
That's fine because it's your opinion, but stats and more advanced basketball minds think otherwise. Bargnani plays no D, Evans has no O, DeRozan is questionable (although has shown flashes) on both sides, and Weems has been AWFUL so even having him in the top 8 of Raps players this year invalidates your opinion.

Amir has not only been the most consistent player for the Raptors, but he impacts the game most on both sides of the ball.

Are you referring to yourself? My one opinion (which you disagree with) doesn't mean you know more about basketball then me. I'm not saying you don't know more, it's just irritating that you'd be so pompous.

Trouble87
12-15-2010, 07:18 PM
Amir was worth it

relatively cheap for a young big man who has a lot of potential

Dol-Fan
12-15-2010, 07:19 PM
Are you referring to yourself? My one opinion (which you disagree with) doesn't mean you know more about basketball then me. I'm not saying you don't know more, it's just irritating that you'd be so pompous.

No.

Flash3
12-15-2010, 07:22 PM
He's a decent player but IMO he wasn't worth it. Quite frankly I'd take Ty Thomas over him any day of the week, maybe not for that contract but certainly as a player.

look how much tyrus is making, look how much gooden is making,

i think it was a good sign 4/23 for amir is pretty decent.

Khalifa21
12-15-2010, 07:25 PM
There are a lot more overpaid guys in the league. He's definitely a MLE kinda guy. I think his deal was worth it.

tonystarks90292
12-15-2010, 07:26 PM
Why bother starting a thread like this? Nobody will be talking about Amir Johnson 3 years from now. I bet nobody outside of Toronto (and maybe Detroit) even knows this guy exists.

posner08
12-15-2010, 07:26 PM
Amir shows nothing but heart, drive and hustle when he plays the game. Sure he puts up stupid 18 footers from time to time, but he has some offensive prowess and a strong will to play the game.

As of lately:
1) Bargs
2) Barbosa
3) Bayless
4) Amir

Swashcuff
12-15-2010, 07:27 PM
look how much tyrus is making, look how much gooden is making,

i think it was a good sign 4/23 for amir is pretty decent.


maybe not for that contract but certainly as a player

:cool:

GeekInThePink
12-15-2010, 07:29 PM
No.

I'll explain my reasoning if you like (if it helps, I'm not trying to be a jerk about it or anything)

1. Andrea Bargnani - All though his rebounding numbers suck, he's the face of the franchise, and as an extremely athletic big he's averaging 21.0 points per game.

2. Reggie Evans - In 15 games with the Raptors before his injury, he averaged 12.1 rebounds a game (in 27 minutes per contest) and is averaging almost a full assist over his career average, just a spark plug who is a rebounding machine.

3. DeMar DeRozan - All though many expected a bigger breakout in his sophomore season, DeMar has improved most of his stats across the board, but is shooting a lower percentage then last year. He has shown flashes of brilliance throughout the start of the season.

4. Amir Johnson - Is playing much better then last season, shooting a higher FT% and average a few more points and rebounds per game then last season in about 5 more minutes. Would be way up this list if he didn't foul so often, he's averaging 3.7 fouls a game and has 18 in his last 4 games.

EDIT: I'm talking about these guys play all season long, not just of late. If I was just talking about recent play, Bayless and Barbosa would certainly be on this list.

Dol-Fan
12-15-2010, 07:29 PM
Why bother starting a thread like this? Nobody will be talking about Amir Johnson 3 years from now. I bet nobody outside of Toronto (and maybe Detroit) even knows this guy exists.

Well, at least 20 respondents so far know more about the NBA league-wide than you do.

Dol-Fan
12-15-2010, 07:39 PM
I'll explain my reasoning if you like (if it helps, I'm not trying to be a jerk about it or anything)

1. Andrea Bargnani - All though his rebounding numbers suck, he's the face of the franchise, and as an extremely athletic big he's averaging 21.0 points per game.

2. Reggie Evans - In 15 games with the Raptors before his injury, he averaged 12.1 rebounds a game (in 27 minutes per contest) and is averaging almost a full assist over his career average, just a spark plug who is a rebounding machine.

3. DeMar DeRozan - All though many expected a bigger breakout in his sophomore season, DeMar has improved most of his stats across the board, but is shooting a lower percentage then last year. He has shown flashes of brilliance throughout the start of the season.

4. Amir Johnson - Is playing much better then last season, shooting a higher FT% and average a few more points and rebounds per game then last season in about 5 more minutes. Would be way up this list if he didn't foul so often, he's averaging 3.7 fouls a game and has 18 in his last 4 games.

EDIT: I'm talking about these guys play all season long, not just of late. If I was just talking about recent play, Bayless and Barbosa would certainly be on this list.

Don't really want to turn this into a Raptors debate thread, but I'll just put in my two cents. I think Bargs is the only guy you could make an argument for having been better than Amir this year, but you can't get blinded by a scoring increase. The only real advancement in his game has come in his ability to get to the FT line, he has gotten there 5 times/36 minutes as opposed to last season only 3 times/36. His TS% is the same, his eFG% is worse (because of a dip in 3pt%). His TRB% is worse than ever (was that even possible?!) his TOV% is worse than ever, and his scoring increase can be mainly attributed to a USG% of 27.3 as opposed to last year's 22.3.

My beef with Evans is that he adds NOTHING but rebounding. Amir plays better D, scores (with efficiency), blocks shots, gets steals. He simply impacts the game in a far more diverse way than does Reggie Evans.

DeRozan has been too inconsistent and too one-dimensional for me to rate his impact on the game above Amir's. He adds nothing to the game aside from ability to drive to the basket and either score/get fouled.

I think the only reason it's possible to argue that Amir hasn't been our best player is his inability to stay on the floor.

posner08
12-15-2010, 07:43 PM
I'll explain my reasoning if you like (if it helps, I'm not trying to be a jerk about it or anything)

1. Andrea Bargnani - All though his rebounding numbers suck, he's the face of the franchise, and as an extremely athletic big he's averaging 21.0 points per game.

2. Reggie Evans - In 15 games with the Raptors before his injury, he averaged 12.1 rebounds a game (in 27 minutes per contest) and is averaging almost a full assist over his career average, just a spark plug who is a rebounding machine.

3. DeMar DeRozan - All though many expected a bigger breakout in his sophomore season, DeMar has improved most of his stats across the board, but is shooting a lower percentage then last year. He has shown flashes of brilliance throughout the start of the season.

4. Amir Johnson - Is playing much better then last season, shooting a higher FT% and average a few more points and rebounds per game then last season in about 5 more minutes. Would be way up this list if he didn't foul so often, he's averaging 3.7 fouls a game and has 18 in his last 4 games.

A worse field goal percentage than last year.
And a worse three-point percentage.
And a worse free throw percentage.
And more personal fouls.
And more turnovers.

Out of 10 statistical categories (pts, rbs, asts, stls, blks, fg%, ft%, 3pt%, pfs, TOs), DeMar has regressed in exactly half (5) and has kept even in one - steals - averaging 0.6 spg this year and last.

These regressions come with him averaging 10 more minutes per game than last season.

Those improvements you spoke of (8.6 ppg --> 12.4 ppg, 2.9 rpg --> 3.5 rpg, 0.7 apg --> 1.1 apg, 0.2 bpg --> 0.3 bpg) are hardly even remotely impressive.

When watching Raptors ball, and particularly DeMar DeRozan, I see a childish NBA player (who also lacks a mid range or outside jump-shot) who turns the ball over far too often. In no way whatsoever do his contributions to the Toronto Raptors trump that of Bargnani, Barbosa, Bayless (kid's been on fire lately), Evans (on D) or Amir (for hustle, heart and rebounding/defence).

DeMar has loads of potential, make no mistake, he's just way too soft way too often and just isn't an intelligent ball player.

Byronicle
12-15-2010, 07:44 PM
he's not the best player on the raptors, that is a matter of fact. Reggie was way better than Amir, in fact Reggie suppressed Amir. give Davis another year and he'll be better, he's already playing pretty smart for a rookie.

honestly that statement, best player on the raptors? you definitely do not want to give Bargnani the respect he deserves, you have to hate him to be blind to the fact that his rebounding is better without Evans, that he has been our best offensive player

and like in your post defense stat thread earlier said about post up defense which was invalid because it ranked great defensive players very low, that Bargnani has more defensive responsibilites and has to defend their best Big man

his one on one post up defense is fine, i don't know why you think its bad, its just his help defense that needs fixing.

Mplsman
12-15-2010, 07:59 PM
Amir is decent. Not sure about that deal yet.

Raps18-19 Champ
12-15-2010, 08:14 PM
We paid based on potential.

He's getting 9 and 6 so far and it should only improve by the end of the season. Look for numbers around 11 and 7 near the end of the season.

So like I said, we paid based on potential. Even if he doesn't turn out to be as good of a player as BC hoped, he's still an energy guy who will try for every rebound and those types of players get paid around that much.

Ragun
12-16-2010, 04:43 PM
i thought he was overpaid in the summer but he worked hard on his jumper and free throw shot...only problem is his foul trouble.

AddiX
12-16-2010, 04:51 PM
Someone was gonna pay him. I think he has the potential to be a beast. Just have to wait and see now.

That's what sucks about paying for potential. The first few years your not getting the production based on what hes getting paid, and you really don't know if they will ever meet that those goals.

But as far as I know he has good character, which if your paying for potential you sure as heck better hope they are high char guys or else they may not even try to get better.

Carey
12-16-2010, 05:06 PM
Very fair contract for his production