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View Full Version : Yankees buying rings argument officially over?



MelanconMadness
12-09-2010, 04:37 AM
Since last offseason the Red Sox have spent money on:

Lackey: 5 years/82M

Beckett: 4 years/68M

Crawford: 7 years/142M

Gonzalez: (soon to be): 8 years 167M

Is it really fair to only judge the Yankees, or is it time to put the blame on someone else, considering the magnitude of the contract to Crawford?

309M committed in the last 3 days.

Are Crawford and Gonzalez really only worth 20M less than Sabathia and Teixeira?

BaustinSali08
12-09-2010, 04:39 AM
I blame the schools.

bklynny67
12-09-2010, 05:06 AM
whats gonna happen now is people saying the reason why BOS is spending this type of money is to keep the Yanks from signing everyone, therefore its still their fault.

and now its the Yankees and Red Sox that buy their rings :eyebrow:

The_Jamal
12-09-2010, 05:08 AM
Nope, Yankees still buy their rings

Tragedy
12-09-2010, 05:11 AM
Sox have been paying guys for a little while now. We also draft very, very well. The Yankees just went out and signed Tex, Burnett, and CC Sabathia. It's both teams, and obviously the Yankees in the last 10 years are FAR worse spending wise - They've sent over a billion the last 5 years or so while the Sox have spent nowhere near that.

papipapsmanny
12-09-2010, 05:13 AM
Im not denying the Sox spend a lot of money, but why is everyone acting like they are spending a lot more than they ever have. There in a range that they have always been in, somewhere under the luxury tax.

MelanconMadness
12-09-2010, 05:18 AM
300+M on 2 players in the span of 4 days is not something that happens often. I think the Nationals kind of ****ed it up with the Werth deal, something I dont blame them for, but id dont think Crawford is worth 20M, 17, maybe, but not 20. Years wise is understandable since hes young, but 20M for that many years is a little absurd for a left fielder, that only has to showcase half his ability in a short LF

AI
12-09-2010, 05:20 AM
300+M on 2 players in the span of 4 days is not something that happens often. I think the Nationals kind of ****ed it up with the Werth deal, something I dont blame them for, but id dont think Crawford is worth 20M, 17, maybe, but not 20. Years wise is understandable since hes young, but 20M for that many years is a little absurd for a left fielder, that only has to showcase half his ability in a short LF

Since 2002 the Yankees have spent approx. $500M+ more than the Red Sox. In terms of "spending money" it's clear you guys spend more than us. We had money to spend this year because alot of contracts came off the books this offseason, not because we have unlimited revenue (coughs - yankees).

Our payroll will stay close to what it was last year, $160M you guys are talking about a $200-210M payroll. Don't talk to me about spending $ when Crawfords and A-Gons contract combined ($296M) is almost equal to that of A-Rod ($275M) and he is only 1 player.

Shhhhhhhh ;)

robdizzle3
12-09-2010, 05:33 AM
No its not over because the Yanks are and will continue to by championships, but now it's a little company lol, though I believe the Sox run their Organization better.

abe_froman
12-09-2010, 05:49 AM
Is it really fair to only judge the Yankees, or is it time to put the blame on someone else, considering the magnitude of the contract to Crawford?


i wouldnt say only,i thought they had been in the same breath as the yankees for awhile now.

but there are also many big spending clubs....just yankees are the symbol of it,as they have been the most effective users of it(with all the titles and such)

robdizzle3
12-09-2010, 05:58 AM
I blame the schools.

Hahahaha... Ditto lol

Swishalicious
12-09-2010, 06:07 AM
Seriously?

Of course the Yankees are the ONLY TEAM that buys their rings! The Red Sox are safe cause they don't pay the luxury tax, duh! Its completely fair that the Red Sox can spend more money than most team in the majors, as long as they don't spend more than the yankees. Basically any team that spends less than the yankees is safe from "buying rings"

And even when the yankees stop spending more than other teams (which isnt anytime soon), they will still be buying rings because their overspending in the past carries over... so if their payroll is the least in the majors in 20 years, it doesn't matter, their spending now makes them "ring buyers" for good


In case you haven't noticed by now, im showing the haters how ignorant their arguments are

VRP723
12-09-2010, 06:08 AM
You know guys, there are 28 other teams that play sometimes too

Swishalicious
12-09-2010, 06:12 AM
You know guys, there are 28 other teams that play sometimes too

That's great. This is a competition, not a kindergarten class... we don't share everything and play fairly. It's more like college, only those with money can go and will likely be more successful than those who don't, but its not guaranteed, just probable.

papipapsmanny
12-09-2010, 06:15 AM
You know guys, there are 28 other teams that play sometimes too

Prove it :p

Here is the difference yankees fans: The Sox are better at spending money, simple fact.

VRP723
12-09-2010, 06:19 AM
My point was that by asking if the "Yankees buying their rings argument is over", you would think that everyone started spending drastically, as opposed to just a second team :laugh2:

MelanconMadness
12-09-2010, 06:23 AM
Yes but its always been the Yankees as the blame when these Salary Cap threads come up, never anyone else.

papipapsmanny
12-09-2010, 06:24 AM
My point was that by asking if the "Yankees buying their rings argument is over", you would think that everyone started spending drastically, as opposed to just a second team :laugh2:

yea and whats funny is the second team's payroll is nothing new with them, not really getting why everyone is in an uproar about it?

Sox developed some good specs used them to get Agon, then a lot of money off the books used it to get crawford... that simple.

It is a nice luxury to have, having a lot of money and being smart (for the most part)

ciaban
12-09-2010, 08:03 AM
lol this doesn't end that argument, it just means we can though the sox are in on it too. lol

ciaban
12-09-2010, 08:05 AM
yea and whats funny is the second team's payroll is nothing new with them, not really getting why everyone is in an uproar about it?

Sox developed some good specs used them to get Agon, then a lot of money off the books used it to get crawford... that simple.

It is a nice luxury to have, having a lot of money and being smart (for the most part)

ahhhh, this is what your saying "i have been going 50 in this school zone for like 10 years, but now everyone is getting pissed? WTF?"

papipapsmanny
12-09-2010, 08:37 AM
basically, accept what the sox are doing is legal.

It would be more like if my dog took a crap in a random field everyday for 10 years, and some person just sat and watched it and didn't mind it, then all the sudden was like WTF, and getting in a uproar about my dog crapping there on day.

tcav701
12-09-2010, 09:11 AM
The Red Sox are still within the luxury tax and spending 40mil less than the Yankees.

The cost of players has been driven way up because of contracts the Yankees dish out. Other teams have to give players absurd contracts or they will be outbid by the Yankees.

Its really sad, but the only way to get a top FA is to overspend. Because if you dont, the Yankees will.

jeter4president
12-09-2010, 09:12 AM
Sox have been paying guys for a little while now. We also draft very, very well. The Yankees just went out and signed Tex, Burnett, and CC Sabathia. It's both teams, and obviously the Yankees in the last 10 years are FAR worse spending wise - They've sent over a billion the last 5 years or so while the Sox have spent nowhere near that.

What and we don't draft well? We didn't bring up through our system jeter, posada, lettuce, mo, Williams, Hughes, joba, cano, Gardner? We bought players but the sox do just as much. On your championship teams there are like 4 guys worth anything from your system and three that didn't do roids.

I try to stay level headed in here but some sox fans sit on their high horse and act like their organization is some perfect thug and man it burns me. Just man up and say, yeah we spend money, and yeah we're gonna be good. Everyones playin by the rules here.

GasMan
12-09-2010, 09:20 AM
I thought the Giants bought their rings this year (and for a good value).

redhorse
12-09-2010, 09:42 AM
as a Yankee fan i dont like that we spend so much. I am a 90's kind of guy. I miss the 90's decade Yankees I kno we still had a high payroll, but that team had no star just a great team filled with homegrown talent....

but for the people that argue " Yankee buy their rings!!" You guys should actually be rooting for the Yankees every year to win the WS. Because every time they dont win and a team like the Giants win. Then your argument becomes weak.

el_primo_nano
12-09-2010, 09:43 AM
Prove it :p

Here is the difference yankees fans: The Sox are better at spending money, simple fact.

Red Sox spend money better? me and you can go all day putting up horrible signings/trades that both teams made in the past decade. FAIL of a post

misterd
12-09-2010, 09:49 AM
Since last offseason the Red Sox have spent money on:

Lackey: 5 years/82M

Beckett: 4 years/68M

Crawford: 7 years/142M

Gonzalez: (soon to be): 8 years 167M

Is it really fair to only judge the Yankees, or is it time to put the blame on someone else, considering the magnitude of the contract to Crawford?

309M committed in the last 3 days.

Are Crawford and Gonzalez really only worth 20M less than Sabathia and Teixeira?

Of course not.

First, we've yet to see where the final payrolls are, how the Yankees respond, and whether they bring any rings or not (lots of teams have tried to "buy" championships - we only remember those that worked, like the 97 Fish and the 09 Yanks).

Second, while this has arguable increased parity between the Yanks and a few other teams, we're still looking at Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Tigers, maybe the Rangers, and a lunatic in Washington. No one believes the Rays can afford to retain CC, or that the Padres were chasing Lee, or that Werth might go to Milwaukee. We may have a couple more "have" teams added to the mix, but all that does is expand the scope of the argument from "Yankees" to "Yankees, Sox and a couple of other teams".

misterd
12-09-2010, 09:52 AM
Red Sox spend money better? me and you can go all day putting up horrible signings/trades that both teams made in the past decade. FAIL of a post

How many bad signings have the Yankees made that the Red Sox weren't trying to get in on as well? The Yanks resources allowed them to win those FAs and reap the bad that went with it, but it usually wasn't for the Sox lack of trying.

And if I were the Sox and Yankees, I'd be hoping that the CB agreement creates a real explosion of player salaries, so that the ARod and Crawford deals won't be so much of an albatross in 2015.

papipapsmanny
12-09-2010, 09:52 AM
Red Sox spend money better? me and you can go all day putting up horrible signings/trades that both teams made in the past decade. FAIL of a post

You kidding me? The Redsox have a better team the yankees at the moment and have a payroll that is roughly 65 million less than the yankees, that is the definition of spending money better.

Just like the Rays spent it a lot better last year then both teams

paletsgomets
12-09-2010, 09:57 AM
You kidding me? The Redsox have a better team the yankees at the moment and have a payroll that is roughly 65 million less than the yankees, that is the definition of spending money better.

Just like the Rays spent it a lot better last year then both teams


wow you just proved how little you know about baseball, the Rays team was all homegrown, they won it with their own players through their own minor league system

metsbulls1025
12-09-2010, 10:01 AM
Well Beckett and Gonzalez got traded to the Red Sox. Technically since they gave up prospects to get these guys it is like resigning their homegrown players. If a team trades their talent to get another teams talent than imo it isn't buying championships.


Lackey - 5 years 82 million

Crawford - 7 years 142 million


The Yankees went out and got CC Sabathia, Mark Teixeira, and AJ Burnett. Now they are about to sign Cliff Lee if nothing crazy happens. That is over 500 million dollars on just 4 players in the past 3 years.

Sabathia - 161 million
Teixeira - 180 million
AJ Burnett - 82.5 million
Cliff Lee - 150 million ( As of right Now )

= 573.5 million dollars

NickyNick
12-09-2010, 10:02 AM
Since last offseason the Red Sox have spent money on:

Lackey: 5 years/82M

Beckett: 4 years/68M

Crawford: 7 years/142M

Gonzalez: (soon to be): 8 years 167M

Is it really fair to only judge the Yankees, or is it time to put the blame on someone else, considering the magnitude of the contract to Crawford?

309M committed in the last 3 days.

Are Crawford and Gonzalez really only worth 20M less than Sabathia and Teixeira?

dude you are so sour hahahaha.....on the other thread your every other post and now you start this thread....get over it!!!! hahahaha

and your signature is immature and offensive

TO to the CHI
12-09-2010, 10:03 AM
This is just an absurd argument. Both teams "buy rings" if that is how you want to look at it. The Yankees might spend more, but the Red Sox are in the same boat. I don't know why Yankees fans are so adamant about making this point now, seeing as to how any Red Sox fan that was denying it before (or now) is too dense to argue with.

To be clear, both teams buy players and hence feed into the argument that they are buying rings. Both teams spend more than the rest of the league. And both teams have had recent success and are playing within the rules. I don't get the uproar here from either side. It seems simple. Yankees fans, accept that the Red Sox are merely playing the game by the rules that your team set (and still doing it cheaper). Red Sox fans, enjoy an amazing offseason thus far, accept that you have a newly improved team and that they money you spent doing it classifies you in the same category as the Yanks (even if you remain a hair under the luxury tax).

TheHughesUnit
12-09-2010, 10:03 AM
How dare you sir, the sox are a small market team. They don't have money to spend like the Royals, Yankees and Marlins, Theo gets paid in food stamps so they can add another $20 to the payroll to sign guys like Beckett for Christ sakes!!! I will not have you sullying their good name in this thread.

F*(&"Next Year"
12-09-2010, 10:07 AM
Whether you buy them or not, A ring is a ring

pats..usmc
12-09-2010, 10:21 AM
i posted this in the last thread

u can thank the nats for cc getting so much ...

some teams will never be able to do what the yanks and sox do because its starts with you're fan base. sox yankes can raise seat prices and still sell out there are teams who cant sell out in a playoff game

like its was said before the sox yanks run it like a business .. how much extra money can they make if they win a WS they prob make at least 20 30 mil extra maybe more merchandise sales go up everything is up

remember the player demands they money you think the sox wanted to spend 142 for cc hell no but the market was up thanks to the werth deal... i do understand why the nats over payed for him

tc2deuce
12-09-2010, 10:41 AM
please!!!!!
wait until they ink lee for 7 years 155 million

CostanzaNumba0
12-09-2010, 10:42 AM
You kidding me? The Redsox have a better team the yankees at the moment and have a payroll that is roughly 65 million less than the yankees, that is the definition of spending money better.

Just like the Rays spent it a lot better last year then both teams

its technically 65 million yes but lets not forget the 50 million you paid just for the rights to talk to that bum dice-k that isnt included in payroll..and to be honest crawford is a good player, hes not great, he really doesnt fit into the red sox philosophy (high obp etc) he relies on his speed, which at 29 is still there but is the first thing to go as a player ages, this contract is going to really hurt you guys in years 4,5,6,7..Agon is spectacular I tip my cap to you on that front..but when you combine the losses of martinez and beltre its not like you guys have made monumental strides forward this year

jtchilln
12-09-2010, 10:47 AM
its technically 65 million yes but lets not forget the 50 million you paid just for the rights to talk to that bum dice-k that isnt included in payroll..and to be honest crawford is a good player, hes not great, he really doesnt fit into the red sox philosophy (high obp etc) he relies on his speed, which at 29 is still there but is the first thing to go as a player ages, this contract is going to really hurt you guys in years 4,5,6,7..Agon is spectacular I tip my cap to you on that front..but when you combine the losses of martinez and beltre its not like you guys have made monumental strides forward this year

I said the biggest addition to the Sox will be a healthy, Ellsbury, Pedroia and Youk. All those guys missed half the season or more and the Sox still scored the 2nd most runs in baseball.

All long term deals hurt the last few years.....just wait for Tex and Arod to continue to break down for you guys. CC's weight is going to be an issue on those knees going forward.......it's the reality of a long term deal, everyone deals with it.

mrker
12-09-2010, 10:47 AM
the yanks "BUY RINGS and so do the RED SOXS, the thing about the yanks that piss fans off is that they get to fix EVERY BAD SIGNING.....AJ for 85 mill no problem, oh wait he lost his *****, never mind 150 mil for LEE, tex at 180 mil, no problem, everyone takes about yanks growing guys in the minors, What is the last time they made a baseball trade like the becket deal( cost them hanley ramariz) NO...... the yanks make deals for FA and the only reason they got A_ROD was no other teams would have or could have gave the 275 Ext...... When the yankees spend somewhere around 150 mil on payroll and have to live with bad chioce`s(AJ at 5 years) and not spend to fill every hole then you can say the Yankees don`t BUY TITLES

keymax
12-09-2010, 10:52 AM
Great another Red Sox/Yankees thread, we definitely need that. I am looking forward to get more Red Sox/Yankees news because the mainstream media completely ignores them

Fred
12-09-2010, 10:59 AM
do the Yankees buy their rings? sure
are the Red Sox like the Yankees? sure

did the Yankees just panic and up their offer to BUY lee because the Bosox just bought Crawford? sure

mrker
12-09-2010, 11:01 AM
Whether you buy them or not, A ring is a ring

YOUR RIGHT.....It is just nice to see teams that have to use more than JUST money to make the playoffs, Yanks never miss the playoffs(i know 2 years ago) but is it fair to the others teams and fans that only 3-5 teams can sign top end FA EVERY YEAR..

BASEBALL NEEDS A HARD SALARY CAP 155 million
LETS see the yankees win then, take your pick who do you want to drop to get at 155 million ( TEX, AROD, CC jeter) then tell me how great they look

Fred
12-09-2010, 11:02 AM
Great another Red Sox/Yankees thread, we definitely need that. I am looking forward to get more Red Sox/Yankees news because the mainstream media completely ignores them

yeah, I am starting to see that too.....(sarcastic)


...I really like that the ESPN ticker on the LEAD portion starts off with the Yankees just upping their offer, before the ACTUAL signing of Crawford by the Bosox...then they go into other trivial things like FINALLY getting to the Heat game and Brett Favre's shoulder and penis picture/texts....gotta love the media....

Bronxbombers182
12-09-2010, 11:02 AM
The reason the Red Sox did this, is because the tv ratings were realy down last year. Boston fans showed how loyal they are. They figure spend big on some great players, and that should turn more tv's on next year. This isn't realy a suprise! They have been spending big, it's not like they haven't spent big before.

mrker
12-09-2010, 11:07 AM
If LEE signs in TEXAS does that mean that the YANKEES are underdogs next year. you know the poor yankees can`t get top flight FA to Play for them,, OH no they might have to overpay to somebody next year....Poor poor Yankees.. we could send them a fruit basket or something.. you know just to make them feel better

Bronxbombers182
12-09-2010, 11:15 AM
I'm tired of pointing the finger at who spent the most, and who didn't. I think the Yankees and Sox have proven, spending big on players doesn't = Championships. Take the Giants as prime example. Red Sox fans need to pull there heads out of there *****. They always call the Yankees out for spending. But when they do it, some how they always hav good reasons to justify there spending. It's not like the sox have home grown talent at every position. They spend big on FA as well.

Garden Faithful
12-09-2010, 11:22 AM
First of all who gives a ****, the Yanks have been winning championships on the average of every 4 or 5 years so this is nothing new. Furthermore they spend the most but all of the Red Sox fans can't say anything when they have the second highest payroll in the league however far behind the Yankees they are. While a lot of Yankee fans say that money = championship, well it doesn't but it also doesn't hurt to be able to spend the money. The Giants won because they had great drafts and brought up their youth and have a lot of homegrown players who put it all together at the right time. If I had to pick between the giants and the Yankees of last year I probably would still take the Yankees. So while the Yanks may or may not buy their rings, Boston fans stop complaining with the second highest payroll in the league, and everyone else we should all be used to it at this point.

CostanzaNumba0
12-09-2010, 11:25 AM
I said the biggest addition to the Sox will be a healthy, Ellsbury, Pedroia and Youk. All those guys missed half the season or more and the Sox still scored the 2nd most runs in baseball.

All long term deals hurt the last few years.....just wait for Tex and Arod to continue to break down for you guys. CC's weight is going to be an issue on those knees going forward.......it's the reality of a long term deal, everyone deals with it.

I wasn't talking to you, you guys are good, lets just not forget you placed third last year,, every team has injuries, the yanks didnt have pettite for half the year, and arod for almost a quarter..a bunch of your fans are on very high horses this morning

Bronxbombers182
12-09-2010, 11:26 AM
If LEE signs in TEXAS does that mean that the YANKEES are underdogs next year. you know the poor yankees can`t get top flight FA to Play for them,, OH no they might have to overpay to somebody next year....Poor poor Yankees.. we could send them a fruit basket or something.. you know just to make them feel better
What are you 10 years old? Yea! That's what the Yankees want. We want a fruit basket to make us feel better. Some people are just stupid. With or without Lee we will be good next year. I realy don't think he Red Sox are clear cut favorites. Pitching wins ball games, and the Sox staff isn't great either. They did score the second most runs last year and still finished 3rd.

F*(&"Next Year"
12-09-2010, 11:26 AM
Honestly, for those calling for a cap, I am on the fence. I think that players salaries should be capped, but not the salary of the entire team.

IMO this gives other teams a chance to retain their players instead of being signed away to the highest bidder.

I mean, lets be serious A-Rod will make more money in April than I will in a lifetime. Does anyone need that?

PhillyPhan8790
12-09-2010, 11:26 AM
I'm not particularly mad at the Yankees persay but MLB for never implementing a salary cap. The Yankees have spent on average 60M more on players in the last 5 years then any other team. And it's just because they have it. The only excuse Yank$ fans have had over the last 10 years is "Ah.. well we havent one it since 2000." Well... not anymore. They bought it in 2009. They bought the ALDS in 2010 and now there gonna buy the best free agent pitcher just cause they have the money to do so. You can't really blame the Yankees for having the money, but MLB officials for letting them spend it all.

CostanzaNumba0
12-09-2010, 11:29 AM
Honestly, for those calling for a cap, I am on the fence. I think that players salaries should be capped, but not the salary of the entire team.

IMO this gives other teams a chance to retain their players instead of being signed away to the highest bidder.

I mean, lets be serious A-Rod will make more money in April than I will in a lifetime. Does anyone need that?

the league needs the yankees and red sox to do this kind of stuff there are 100 million people living from jersey to maine its a massive market, if interest in the yanks and sox taper off then the mlb tapers off, plain and simple..the business plan works,,would you rather it be like the way the nba is based, which hemhorrages money, because their big market teams aren't allowed to spend?

F*(&"Next Year"
12-09-2010, 11:29 AM
What are you 10 years old? Yea! That's what the Yankees want. We want a fruit basket to make us feel better. Some people are just stupid. With or without Lee we will be good next year. I realy don't think he Red Six a clear cut favorites. Pitching wins ball games, and the Sox staff isn't great either. They did score the second most runs last year and still finished 3rd.

Sorry but two Cy young candidates at the front of their rotation and two other postseason accomplished pitchers who had down years?

Lester=Sabathia
Buccholz>Hughes
Beckett>Burnett
Lackey>Nova
DiceK>>Mitre

If pettitte returns it evens things up a tiny bit but still a much worse rotation. Lee is a necessity

F*(&"Next Year"
12-09-2010, 11:31 AM
the league needs the yankees and red sox to do this kind of stuff there are 100 million people living from jersey to maine its a massive market, if interest in the yanks and sox taper off then the mlb tapers off, plain and simple..the business plan works,,would you rather it be like the way the nba is based, which hemhorrages money, because their big market teams aren't allowed to spend?

LA Boston Miami Dallas etc all don't seem to be having problems. NY spent a while with their heads up there ***** but they are coming around...

Bronxbombers182
12-09-2010, 11:32 AM
This is just an absurd argument. Both teams "buy rings" if that is how you want to look at it. The Yankees might spend more, but the Red Sox are in the same boat. I don't know why Yankees fans are so adamant about making this point now, seeing as to how any Red Sox fan that was denying it before (or now) is too dense to argue with.

To be clear, both teams buy players and hence feed into the argument that they are buying rings. Both teams spend more than the rest of the league. And both teams have had recent success and are playing within the rules. I don't get the uproar here from either side. It seems simple. Yankees fans, accept that the Red Sox are merely playing the game by the rules that your team set (and still doing it cheaper). Red Sox fans, enjoy an amazing offseason thus far, accept that you have a newly improved team and that they money you spent doing it classifies you in the same category as the Yanks (even if you remain a hair under the luxury tax). I couldn't Agree more! Let's leave it at that.

Havoc Wreaker
12-09-2010, 11:34 AM
"It doesnt matter what other teams do there's NOTHING that would make the Yankees go for a 7th year"

:laugh2:

bringinwood
12-09-2010, 11:38 AM
In 2008, the Yankees had over 70MM more dollars allocated to payroll than any other team in baseball... 209MM vs the Mets 138MM ( who were in 2nd)...

In 2009, the Yankees still had 50MM more dollars allocated than any other team in baseball... 201MM vs the Mets 149MM ( who were in 2nd)...

Still, in 2010, the Yankees have 40MM more dollars allocated to any other team in baseball... Yankees 206MM vs Red Sox 162MM ( they are in 2nd this year)...

There is a misconception that the Red Sox are always 2nd in payroll... They aren't...


Lastly, the Yankees ( as of last season ) had 986.3 MM dollars allocated to multiyear contracts...

No team in baseball comes near half of that figure...

Edit: In 06 and 07 the Red Sox were in 2nd in total payroll... The Yankees had 194MM allocated to total payroll in 06 vs the Red Sox 120MM.... In 07, the Yankees had a payroll of 218MM vs the Red Sox 155MM...

The disparity is still there, but the league is catching up...

Bronxbombers182
12-09-2010, 11:39 AM
Sorry but two Cy young candidates at the front of their rotation and two other postseason accomplished pitchers who had down years?

Lester=Sabathia
Buccholz>Hughes
Beckett>Burnett
Lackey>Nova
DiceK>>Mitre

If pettitte returns it evens things up a tiny bit but still a much worse rotation. Lee is a necessity The Yankees made it to the Playoffs with there Rotation. The Red Sox finished 3rd! They'll have the same staff next year. You can't say the Red Sox offence held them back last year, they still scored Runs. Lee is necessity to win a WS. Not like Gonzalez and Crawford, who are ment to help get you back in the Playoffs. Pitching and Defence wins playoff games.

CostanzaNumba0
12-09-2010, 11:42 AM
LA Boston Miami Dallas etc all don't seem to be having problems. NY spent a while with their heads up there ***** but they are coming around...

What are you talking about?

Melo15
12-09-2010, 11:43 AM
I wasn't talking to you, you guys are good, lets just not forget you placed third last year,, every team has injuries, the yanks didnt have pettite for half the year, and arod for almost a quarter..a bunch of your fans are on very high horses this morning

Agreed. Both fanbases are embarrassing themselves in my opinion. Threads like this doesn't really help it either. Most Red Sox fans realize that we spend an awful lot of money. Is it as much as the Yankees? No, but it's not far off and we have nothing to cry about like a lot of Sox fans seem to be doing. For some reason a lot of Sox fans use the amount of money the Yanks spend as an excuse when we lose. It baffles me, there is definitely a lot of hypocrites in this forum.

Then you look at a lot of the Yankees fans who act like Crawford is a scrub now. Funny thing is before the Red Sox signed him a lot of the same posters were talking about how great he is and how he would make the Yankees into a powerhouse. Now that he's a member of the Red Sox he suddenly lost all his ability?

Is the contract a smart investment? Remains to be seen. It definitely provides us with a dynamic playmaker and a very competitive offense the next few years. In my opinion, if it allows us to win a World Series ring then he is definitely worth it. Plus it lets us step on our rivals throat and take away one of their top players. Overall though, both teams spend money. Both teams have an advantage and they use it, every team would given the opportunity. It's better for them to go out and spend as much money as possible rather than the owners who just pocket all their money, in my opinion.

F*(&"Next Year"
12-09-2010, 11:43 AM
Im sorry but it is very unreallistic to expect the beckett and lackey to suffer as much as they did. Alsoif pettitte doesnt come back....

If you want to talk defense well then the red sox played with a AAA outfield and missing two (deserved) gold gloves in the infield for a good portion of the season.

mrker
12-09-2010, 01:19 PM
What are you 10 years old? Yea! That's what the Yankees want. We want a fruit basket to make us feel better. Some people are just stupid. With or without Lee we will be good next year. I realy don't think he Red Sox are clear cut favorites. Pitching wins ball games, and the Sox staff isn't great either. They did score the second most runs last year and still finished 3rd.

You must be a sore winner guy... every year the Yankees go out and spend stupid money on the ball team, every other team outside of the big 5 (boston,NY(2 teams) cubs and Dodgers(not anymore), has to go in cycles to put a winner together, while the big spenders just pick out the best players in FA and throw money until they say yes... IT`s real life suck it up

METS and the DODGERS will be light on cash for awhile
( Madoffed) (never get married)

F*(&"Next Year"
12-09-2010, 01:23 PM
You must be a sore winner guy... every year the Yankees go out and spend stupid money on the ball team, every other team outside of the big 5 (boston,NY(2 teams) cubs and Dodgers(not anymore), has to go in cycles to put a winner together, while the big spenders just pick out the best players in FA and throw money until they say yes... IT`s real life suck it up

METS and the DODGERS will be light on cash for awhile
( Madoffed) (never get married)

Forgot the phillies. The teams that you mentioned however dont cycle in and out when it comesto championships. The giants, Cardinals, Marlins angels etc. have all won in the past decade

gcoll
12-09-2010, 01:24 PM
I have no idea what Yankee fans get out of "Haha! You are trying to buy a championship too!"

Red Sox spend a lot. Just not as much as the Yankees.

North Country
12-09-2010, 01:31 PM
Since last offseason the Red Sox have spent money on:

Lackey: 5 years/82M

Beckett: 4 years/68M

Crawford: 7 years/142M

Gonzalez: (soon to be): 8 years 167M

Is it really fair to only judge the Yankees, or is it time to put the blame on someone else, considering the magnitude of the contract to Crawford?

309M committed in the last 3 days.

Are Crawford and Gonzalez really only worth 20M less than Sabathia and Teixeira?

Sour grapes. Just look at how bitter your sig is.

ExplicitX
12-09-2010, 01:32 PM
Agreed. Both fanbases are embarrassing themselves in my opinion. Threads like this doesn't really help it either. Most Red Sox fans realize that we spend an awful lot of money. Is it as much as the Yankees? No, but it's not far off and we have nothing to cry about like a lot of Sox fans seem to be doing. For some reason a lot of Sox fans use the amount of money the Yanks spend as an excuse when we lose. It baffles me, there is definitely a lot of hypocrites in this forum.

Then you look at a lot of the Yankees fans who act like Crawford is a scrub now. Funny thing is before the Red Sox signed him a lot of the same posters were talking about how great he is and how he would make the Yankees into a powerhouse. Now that he's a member of the Red Sox he suddenly lost all his ability?

Is the contract a smart investment? Remains to be seen. It definitely provides us with a dynamic playmaker and a very competitive offense the next few years. In my opinion, if it allows us to win a World Series ring then he is definitely worth it. Plus it lets us step on our rivals throat and take away one of their top players. Overall though, both teams spend money. Both teams have an advantage and they use it, every team would given the opportunity. It's better for them to go out and spend as much money as possible rather than the owners who just pocket all their money, in my opinion.

You, sir, just made the post of the offseason. Congrats :clap:

mrker
12-09-2010, 01:35 PM
Forgot the phillies. The teams that you mentioned however dont cycle in and out when it comesto championships. The giants, Cardinals, Marlins angels etc. have all won in the past decade

Agreed the phillies are in their, but the Cards, angels and marlins all went thru rebuilding processes, some small(cards angels) or big (marlins diamondbacks), before or after winning, that wasn`t done with 150 million payrolls, the point was outside of those big teams, all teams have to wait until the feel they can make a run until huge contracts are giving out, where those big teams feel always ready cause of the financhel resources provide, i still give Cashman and Epstien props cause look at the mets or cubs, it`s hard as a baseball fan to know before the season starts you almost could pencil the red soxs and yankees for the playoffs, and i don`t want to suck for 10 years(RAYS) just to watch your best players go to the enemy everytime

Bronxbombers182
12-09-2010, 01:38 PM
You must be a sore winner guy... every year the Yankees go out and spend stupid money on the ball team, every other team outside of the big 5 (boston,NY(2 teams) cubs and Dodgers(not anymore), has to go in cycles to put a winner together, while the big spenders just pick out the best players in FA and throw money until they say yes... IT`s real life suck it up

METS and the DODGERS will be light on cash for awhile
( Madoffed) (never get married) Okay! What's your point? If you went back and read my other posts, you'd know I think this thread is stupid. I'm not mad, and I don't care how much any team spends. I'm not a sore loser or winner. I'm still unsure what a sore winner is, because I'm not. I'm tired of pointing the finger and trying to place blame anywhere. I didn't want Crawford! We have Gardner. Same type of player except younger. Our OF wasn't our problem.

Pootamis91
12-09-2010, 01:43 PM
To be fair the yankees dont buy their championships and heres why
1. In the 2009 off season the yankees had only chamberlain in their rotation so getting CC and Aj was necessary
2. Abreu and giambi left so tex was necessary

Last 4 off seasons these are the big names going to each

Yanks: CC, AJ, Tex, Granderson, Abreu
Sox: Crawford, Gonzalez, Bay, Lackey, Marteniez, Beltre, Dice K, Drew

The Sox are buyng their wins easily

mrker
12-09-2010, 01:45 PM
Would the Yankees or Red Soxs have won their titles without those payrolls

el_primo_nano
12-09-2010, 01:46 PM
You kidding me? The Redsox have a better team the yankees at the moment and have a payroll that is roughly 65 million less than the yankees, that is the definition of spending money better.

Just like the Rays spent it a lot better last year then both teams

yea right just like last year huh? You came in third last year and spent with no results. We'll see who comes out on top pal.

PhillyFaninLA
12-09-2010, 01:47 PM
Is it fair to say that all these type of topics are pretty much troll topics used to create an argument that has been had 1 million times on this site already?

a4anthony
12-09-2010, 01:49 PM
I'm tired of pointing the finger at who spent the most, and who didn't. I think the Yankees and Sox have proven, spending big on players doesn't = Championships. Take the Giants as prime example. Red Sox fans need to pull there heads out of there *****. They always call the Yankees out for spending. But when they do it, some how they always hav good reasons to justify there spending. It's not like the sox have home grown talent at every position. They spend big on FA as well.

You do realize that we are going to a a payroll similar to last year right? And we do not pay 36 year old short stops like royalty right?

avrpatsfan
12-09-2010, 01:54 PM
The argument isn't over. It's just Red Sox fans can no longer complain about the Yankees payroll. And I didn't before we got CC and Agon. We've been a top 5 payroll team for a while, mostly due to our fan base and our new ownership. That's how it is.

TheGiantYankee
12-09-2010, 01:55 PM
You do realize that we are going to a a payroll similar to last year right? And we do not pay 36 year old short stops like royalty right?

That is because the Red Sox have never been loyal to their players, you can look at it as good business I look at it as an awful way to run anything.

bringinwood
12-09-2010, 01:58 PM
That is because the Red Sox have never been loyal to their players, you can look at it as good business I look at it as an awful way to run anything.

Awful argument...

Jason Varitek...
Tim Wakefield...
Dustin Pedroia...


They are loyal to players that can still produce...

The Yankees are loyal to relics... This isn't the antique road show... This is baseball... You're not supposed to give 51MM to a guy that isn't top 5 at his position...

mrker
12-09-2010, 02:00 PM
The argument isn't over. It's just Red Sox fans can no longer complain about the Yankees payroll. And I didn't before we got CC and Agon. We've been a top 5 payroll team for a while, mostly due to our fan base and our new ownership. That's how it is.

IS it good for baseball..... Because of the Yankee-Red sox fight.. good players get 10-18 mil a year and LEE is about to be payed more than Roy Halladay, Crazy

North Country
12-09-2010, 02:01 PM
That is because the Red Sox have never been loyal to their players, you can look at it as good business I look at it as an awful way to run anything.

Bernie Williams says hi. And for all the "loyalty" the Yankees give their players, what do they get in return? Derek Jeter demanding $23 million a year and making a public statement saying he's angry about the negotiations when he doesn't get it. Yes, what a great way to run a baseball team.

mrker
12-09-2010, 02:02 PM
That is because the Red Sox have never been loyal to their players, you can look at it as good business I look at it as an awful way to run anything.

Outside of jeter and posada who has the Yanks been loyal

Jeffy25
12-09-2010, 02:04 PM
It might be over for the next year....but it'll come up again, especially in 6 years when Yankee contracts are ending and they are about to go back to free agency to spend again

bringinwood
12-09-2010, 02:05 PM
Bernie Williams says hi. And for all the "loyalty" the Yankees give their players, what do they get in return? Derek Jeter demanding $23 million a year and making a public statement saying he's angry about the negotiations when he doesn't get it. Yes, what a great way to run a baseball team.

The only contract that has been given to the Yankees " homegrown players (that the Yankees give hundreds of millions of dollars to retain because they don't have any other options) " is Mariano...

He isn't worth the money he will recieve either... But, at least, he is still producing at a high level...

Posada and Jeter's contracts are so laughable it's ridiculous...

Sox72
12-09-2010, 02:09 PM
The argument is definitely not over. Just have to add the Red Sox in there. But they should have been in there for years, considering their annual pissing match with the Yankees.

mrker
12-09-2010, 02:09 PM
It might be over for the next year....but it'll come up again, especially in 6 years when Yankee contracts are ending and they are about to go back to free agency to spend again

you think that the Yankees are not going to sign some crazy deal for the next 6 years, St louis fans are just happy both the Yanks and the soxs don`t need a 1st basemen next year, and can`t drive up alberts all ready huge deal that is coming

Super.
12-09-2010, 02:10 PM
After this offseason I will never ***** about the Yankees spending a **** ton of money :laugh2:

1903
12-09-2010, 02:11 PM
Every team buys championships. Last time I checked every team has a payroll.

bringinwood
12-09-2010, 02:14 PM
The argument is definitely not over. Just have to add the Red Sox in there. But they should have been in there for years, considering their annual pissing match with the Yankees.

I don't understand the Red Sox being considered in the same class, payroll wise, as the Yankees over the years...

The last 2 seasons, the Mets were second...

Before that it was the Red Sox for those previous two seasons ( even though they were 70MM behind in 07 )...

This year, the Red Sox leapfrogged the Mets and are still 40MM behind annually...


The Yankees are clearly still in a class of their own, payroll wise...

No team has ever eclipsed 170MM aside from the Yankees...

The Yankees have gone as high as 219MM...


Most seasons, aside from the Yankees... The higher payroll teams are at 140MM...


The difference is still wayyyyyyyyy too far to have anyone else in the Yankees class...

EaglesJackson10
12-09-2010, 02:20 PM
You say this when they are on the verge of signing a pitcher to the largest contract ever for that position. If not the second largest. Just because the Red Sox are trying to compete with the Yankees doesn't mean the Yankees don't buy their rings. I don't really have a problem with it but it doesn't mean they don't. My bigger problem with the lack of salary cap in baseball is what it's done to the Pirates.

mrker
12-09-2010, 02:21 PM
Every team buys championships. Last time I checked every team has a payroll.

Weak point..tell that one to the marlins

DodgerBlue714
12-09-2010, 02:22 PM
Prove it :p

Here is the difference yankees fans: The Sox are better at spending money, simple fact.

Well considering neither team won the World Series (and the Red Sox didn't even make it to the playoffs) I'd say that proves it right there. Sorry not trying to start a fight or anything, just joking around.

Seriously though, I get tired of seeing this bickered back and forth time after time. The Yankees are not the only team spending money, but I think they still spend the most by far. I don't know if it's fair, but since they have the money to do it it's well within their right. Same with the Red Sox, they spend plenty of money as well but might as well if you have it available. Just like a few other teams and how the Dodgers should be.

I just find it extremely funny that on one end you have people complaining that the Yankees (and now Red Sox) spend sooooooo much money on their players. Then you also have people complaining (usually the same people) that teams like the Pirates and such don't spend enough money. The way I see it, everyone wants to win. So if you have the resources to put that much money into your team to field a winner, why wouldn't you do so? Especially when the other goal for owners, besides winning, is to make money and I'd say the Yankees spend a lot but they also get a lot back on their investments.

You can't have it both ways. You can't complain that team A spends too much money and then also complain that team B doesn't spend enough. And if they have the money to do so, you can't complain that an owner is willing to go all in to field a winner and get the most out of their investments. Not always the case, but the funny thing is the people who usually complain that the Yanks spend too much are fans who wish their team spent like the Yankees. And it's dumb for the Yankee fans to try to argue with people. Just be proud that you're a fan of a team with those type of resources and move on. Besides, it may or may not be fair that a team like the Yankees can overspend on the top talent, but that doesn't always equate to a world series win.

Vottomatic19
12-09-2010, 02:23 PM
Since last offseason the Red Sox have spent money on:

Lackey: 5 years/82M

Beckett: 4 years/68M

Crawford: 7 years/142M

Gonzalez: (soon to be): 8 years 167M

Is it really fair to only judge the Yankees, or is it time to put the blame on someone else, considering the magnitude of the contract to Crawford?

309M committed in the last 3 days.

Are Crawford and Gonzalez really only worth 20M less than Sabathia and Teixeira?

It's more than fair to judge the Yankmees, just add the BoSux to the list now...

1903
12-09-2010, 02:24 PM
Weak point..tell that one to the marlins

They have a payroll. I'm sure their players do not play for free.

theslick1
12-09-2010, 02:25 PM
Prove it :p

Here is the difference yankees fans: The Sox are better at spending money, simple fact.

Add up all the money the Yankees have spent on payroll since 1918 and divide by 27.

Add up all the money the Red Sox have spent on payroll since 1918 and divide by 2.

Who's better at spending money?

bringinwood
12-09-2010, 02:26 PM
They have a payroll. I'm sure their players do not play for free.

Yep...

The Marlins sure have a payroll thats nearly 4x less than the Yankees...

1903
12-09-2010, 02:29 PM
Yep...

The Marlins sure have a payroll thats nearly 4x less than the Yankees...

Your point is?

mdlr52192
12-09-2010, 02:30 PM
I guess the "argument" wouldn't be "over", the Yankees just aren't the only one :shrug:

People will always talk about the Yankees buying championships.

TriplePlay
12-09-2010, 02:30 PM
Since last offseason the Red Sox have spent money on:

Lackey: 5 years/82M

Beckett: 4 years/68M

Crawford: 7 years/142M

Gonzalez: (soon to be): 8 years 167M

Is it really fair to only judge the Yankees, or is it time to put the blame on someone else, considering the magnitude of the contract to Crawford?

309M committed in the last 3 days.

Are Crawford and Gonzalez really only worth 20M less than Sabathia and Teixeira?


The blame is on the Yankees because they are the ones that started doing this...trying to buy rings every year. You can't expect teams from the AL East to allow this to happen every year. I for one am glad the Bo Sox are stepping up. The Yankees have been spending money like mad for years....nobody should say a thing about the money the Bo Sox are spending. I would laugh even harder if the Bo Sox came out with Cliff Lee...

NateyB24
12-09-2010, 02:30 PM
No they both spend big.

bringinwood
12-09-2010, 02:32 PM
http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2009/03/20062008_payrol.php

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/tom_verducci/01/19/verducci.efficiency/index.html


Here's a couple of good articles on payroll efficiency...

The Yankees have been a bottom team in payroll efficiency in the last decade...


The Marlins have been the most efficient team in payroll over the last decade...

That's my point... ;)

sixer04fan
12-09-2010, 02:35 PM
Prove it :p

Here is the difference yankees fans: The Sox are better at spending money, simple fact.

This is why I can't stand red sox fans sometimes. They don't realize they are just like the yankees, only they don't win championships.

jmoney85
12-09-2010, 02:36 PM
Prove it :p

Here is the difference yankees fans: The Sox are better at spending money, simple fact.

rofl u just gave crawford 20 mil a year lol

and jd drew??

killbumdeluxe13
12-09-2010, 02:36 PM
well you cant count beckett and agon as buying players. They got to boston via trade, and got their money thru extensions. nothing wrong with resigning players. So your argument comes down to Lackey and Crawford. 1 big signing each of the past two years isnt much to complain about.

1903
12-09-2010, 02:41 PM
http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2009/03/20062008_payrol.php

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/tom_verducci/01/19/verducci.efficiency/index.html


Here's a couple of good articles on payroll efficiency...

The Yankees have been a bottom team in payroll efficiency in the last decade...


The Marlins have been the most efficient team in payroll over the last decade...

That's my point... ;)

Great the Marlins are efficient. Good for them. However this has nothing to do with what I stated so you still have no point for quoting me.

theslick1
12-09-2010, 02:43 PM
well you cant count beckett and agon as buying players. They got to boston via trade, and got their money thru extensions. nothing wrong with resigning players. So your argument comes down to Lackey and Crawford. 1 big signing each of the past two years isnt much to complain about.

Of course they "count" as buying players. The Red Sox traded prospects to get A-Gon for the remaining one year of his contract. Extending him is exactly the same as signing him as a free agent. For what it's worth, the Yankees re-signing their guys (Jeter, Mariano) is the same.

What's the big deal about buying players anyway? Anyone putting on a major league uniform has been bought.

quiksilver2491
12-09-2010, 02:44 PM
Anyone who denies the Red Sox have huge financial muscle is in denial, however this was the biggest FA contract they have given since Manny at the very beginning of the last decade, the Sox still have a LONG way to go to catch up to the Yankees in FA spending..they aren't even close.

I just find it humorous how Yankee fans care so much about their ego. Who cares what other fans think? When you win, the other fans just try to validate why their team didn't. I'm sure every teams fans wish that their organization could spend as much as the Yankees, whether or not they will admit it is another story.

bringinwood
12-09-2010, 02:48 PM
Great the Marlins are efficient. Good for them. However this has nothing to do with what I stated so you still have no point for quoting me.

Every team has a payroll, sure...

The Yankees just spend more money, by a wide margin, than any other team in baseball...

No one is in their bracket... They spend close to 120MM a year more than the league average...

At one point, they spent 75MM more than the next closest team...

They spend so frivolously it's like throwing millions of dollars down the toilet ( Kei Igawa )...


To say that other teams are in their class is so inconcievable and ignorant it's actually funny...

Do the Red Sox spend money ??? Of course...

Are they in the same class as the Yankees ???

Not close... To be in their class, they would have to add A-Rod and Werth's contracts just to draw even...

theslick1
12-09-2010, 02:48 PM
http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2009/03/20062008_payrol.php

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/tom_verducci/01/19/verducci.efficiency/index.html


Here's a couple of good articles on payroll efficiency...

The Yankees have been a bottom team in payroll efficiency in the last decade...


The Marlins have been the most efficient team in payroll over the last decade...

That's my point... ;)

Great, so the Marlins can hang a "Most Efficient Team" banner in the OF.

You know, you could probably field a team of 25 replacement level players at league minimum and they would manage to win 40% of their games and their "per game" efficiency would be off the charts.

bosscity
12-09-2010, 02:49 PM
While I am by no means a Red Sox fan, their payroll this year will not be any higher than their payroll last year. They have had a few players come off the books (Lowell $12m, Lugo $10m, Beltre $10m, Martinez $12m etc....) and really have only added Crawfords huge deal. Gonzalez will still make $6m this year (very affordable)

Same will be true for next year when JD Drew, Ortiz, Cameron, Scutero, etc come off the books.

So while it looks like the Red Sox are just splurging left and right, they are actually keeping their annual payroll pretty steady.

bringinwood
12-09-2010, 02:50 PM
Great, so the Marlins can hang a "Most Efficient Team" banner in the OF.

You know, you could probably field a team of 25 replacement level players at league minimum and they would manage to win 40% of their games and their "per game" efficiency would be off the charts.

How do you figure ???

They won the 03 WS and are consistently making better moves than most of baseball...

The Twins are in the same boat... They have a marginal payroll are consistently competitive...

The Yankees have won one WS this decade and have spent more in this decade than some teams have spent in their entire existance in baseball...

DodgerBlue714
12-09-2010, 02:52 PM
Every team has a payroll, sure...

The Yankees just spend more money, by a wide margin, than any other team in baseball...

No one is in their bracket... They spend close to 120MM a year more than the league average...

At one point, they spent 75MM more than the next closest team...

They spend so frivolously it's like throwing millions of dollars down the toilet ( Kei Igawa )...


To say that other teams are in their class is so inconcievable and ignorant it's actually funny...

Do the Red Sox spend money ??? Of course...

Are they in the same class as the Yankees ???

Not close... To be in their class, they would have to add A-Rod and Werth's contracts just to draw even...

Who cares?!?!?!? If you're not a Yankee fan then why would you care how frivolously they spend money? And if you're not a Yankee fan, I think you would consider that a good thing. Just be glad that you think your team spends better and move on. I personally don't care how much every team spends because, at the end of the day, it doesn't necessairly mean you are winning the World Series.

bringinwood
12-09-2010, 02:58 PM
Who cares?!?!?!? If you're not a Yankee fan then why would you care how frivolously they spend money? And if you're not a Yankee fan, I think you would consider that a good thing. Just be glad that you think your team spends better and move on. I personally don't care how much every team spends because, at the end of the day, it doesn't necessairly mean you are winning the World Series.

I'm a Phils fan ;)


The difference is that to be the GM of the Yankees, all you have to do is write blanks checks...

Yourself, me, or the guy who runs the hotdog stand outside the ballpark could be the gm of the Yankees...

They have the lowest player development and scouting budgets in baseball and have for the last 10 years...

To be the GM of the Marlins, Rays, or any other team in baseball, it takes more than a brain the size of a baseball... It takes scouts and a strong player development staff...

The Yankees look at the top prizes in free agency and sign them... Anyone can size up a fantasy baseball team... It take scouting and player development to win in this game...
That has been demonstrated for a long time...

DodgerBlue714
12-09-2010, 03:05 PM
Well to be fair, the Phils have spent more than their share of money as well. Granted it was to extend players they already had or extend people like Roy, but lets not make it out like the Phillies barely spend money. Witht that said, yea the Yankess spend a lot and have spent a lot for a long time. They have the money to do so, so why shouldn't they? I'm no Yankee fan, but I wouldn't mind having countless championships...even at the expense of a lot of money. It's not like the Yanks don't earn all the money they spend back, plus quite a bit more I'm sure. Besides, the Yanks obviously spend money but they've won their most recent titles due to major contributions from people like Jeter, Posada, Mo, and others and last I checked they weren't some big name free agents they stole from other teams.

mrker
12-09-2010, 03:07 PM
Who cares?!?!?!? If you're not a Yankee fan then why would you care how frivolously they spend money? And if you're not a Yankee fan, I think you would consider that a good thing. Just be glad that you think your team spends better and move on. I personally don't care how much every team spends because, at the end of the day, it doesn't necessairly mean you are winning the World Series.

I care cause every stupid deal the Yankees give out drives up the price of our own talent, in turn drives up the prices of everything related to baseball, You don`t care what people spend cause your team will never be out spent, Try watching your best players leave every couple of years, When was the last time the Yankees lost a homegrown talent cause they couldn`t afford him.....Never ....so you need to look at baseball not just the Yankees

Bronzbomba
12-09-2010, 03:09 PM
Even if I was not a yankees/redsox fan, I would not be mad at them for their high salaries. The marlins net income (revenues-expenses) was higher than both the yankees and redsox in the last year.

The marlins owners are getting more profit than the steinbrenners!

theslick1
12-09-2010, 03:11 PM
I'm a Phils fan ;)

The difference is that to be the GM of the Yankees, all you have to do is write blanks checks...Yourself, me, or the guy who runs the hotdog stand outside the ballpark could be the gm of the Yankees...


Writing checks is not equivalent to winning. Of the top 8 payroll teams last year, do you know how many of them made the playoffs? Only two - the Yankees and Phillies.

As far as Yankee player development goes, their 2011 starting lineup projects to feature Cano, Jeter, Posada, Gardner, and Montero as 5 of the starting 9 - all developed by the Yankees. Hughes and Pettitte (or Nova) will likely be 2/5ths of the starting rotation - developed by the Yankees. Mariano - developed by the Yankees. The CF Granderson - not developed by the Yankees but acquired in exchange for players that were developed by the Yankees (the point being that other teams placed value on what the Yankees developed).

Oh, and the Twins don't do things on a shoe string budget anymore. They were a top 10 payroll team last year.

F*(&"Next Year"
12-09-2010, 03:12 PM
Even if I was not a yankees/redsox fan, I would not be mad at them for their high salaries. The marlins net income (revenues-expenses) was higher than both the yankees and redsox in the last year.

The marlins owners are getting more profit than the steinbrenners!

That is what makes their lack of spending disappointing.

bringinwood
12-09-2010, 03:15 PM
Writing checks is not equivalent to winning. Of the top 8 payroll teams last year, do you know how many of them made the playoffs? Only two - the Yankees and Phillies.

As far as Yankee player development goes, their 2011 starting lineup projects to feature Cano, Jeter, Posada, Gardner, and Montero as 5 of the starting 9 - all developed by the Yankees. Hughes and Pettitte (or Nova) will likely be 2/5ths of the starting rotation - developed by the Yankees. Mariano - developed by the Yankees. The CF Granderson - not developed by the Yankees but acquired in exchange for players that were developed by the Yankees (the point being that other teams placed value on what the Yankees developed).

Oh, and the Twins don't do things on a shoe string budget anymore. They were a top 10 payroll team last year.

As I have said several times in the past...

Jeter, Posada, Rivera, and Pettitte no longer count towards your " homegrown talent"... They have been signed to extensions that have exceeded 400MM over their careers... When you sign a 36 yr old SS to a 51MM contract when he isn't top 5 at his position, it spells D-E-S-P-E-R-A-T-I-O-N.... It doesn't say we are extending one of our own players to a hometown discount because it's for the betterment of our organization...

Gardner and Cano are not nearly close to the players they have touted to be and could never survive in an NL West lineup...

That leaves Montero and Hughes...

Ok you got that...

bomber0104
12-09-2010, 03:18 PM
not really... they still buy their rings, but now you can add the red Sox too

Young2Kinsler
12-09-2010, 03:20 PM
What? Now Yankees fans want some one to feel sorry for them? Poor poor Yankees.

Give me a break. Don't start complaining now, when all you do is run your mouths about how it's ok to spend, you aren't breaking any rules, blah blah blah.

If you are a Yankees or Red Sox fan, you both can leave this thread. The rest of us are the one's who will do the *****ing!

theslick1
12-09-2010, 03:21 PM
I care cause every stupid deal the Yankees give out drives up the price of our own talent, in turn drives up the prices of everything related to baseball, You don`t care what people spend cause your team will never be out spent, Try watching your best players leave every couple of years, When was the last time the Yankees lost a homegrown talent cause they couldn`t afford him.....Never ....so you need to look at baseball not just the Yankees

Which team are you a fan of and which players have you watched leave because your team couldn't afford them?

theslick1
12-09-2010, 03:23 PM
As I have said several times in the past...

Jeter, Posada, Rivera, and Pettitte no longer count towards your " homegrown talent"... They have been signed to extensions that have exceeded 400MM over their careers... When you sign a 36 yr old SS to a 51MM contract when he isn't top 5 at his position, it spells D-E-S-P-E-R-A-T-I-O-N.... It doesn't say we are extending one of our own players to a hometown discount because it's for the betterment of our organization...

Gardner and Cano are not nearly close to the players they have touted to be and could never survive in an NL West lineup...

That leaves Montero and Hughes...

Ok you got that...

I was responding to your comment that the Yankees have poor player development. Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Pettitte, Gardner, Montero, and Hughes were all developed by the Yankees. So was Austin Jackson, who was dealt for Granderson.

bringinwood
12-09-2010, 03:26 PM
For the record,

I don't mind the Yankees spending the money they spend... Honestly, I don't...

My beef comes when people start to think that the Yankees aren't, still, far and away the biggest spenders of the league...

The Yankees are good for the league... They luxury tax helps smaller market teams...

However, no team in baseball is close to the Yankees salary... The Yankees are still more than an entire Pirates franchise payroll in front of the Red Sox in total salary...

DodgerBlue714
12-09-2010, 03:26 PM
I care cause every stupid deal the Yankees give out drives up the price of our own talent, in turn drives up the prices of everything related to baseball, You don`t care what people spend cause your team will never be out spent, Try watching your best players leave every couple of years, When was the last time the Yankees lost a homegrown talent cause they couldn`t afford him.....Never ....so you need to look at baseball not just the Yankees

I'm not even a Yankee fan so don't yell a me. I'm a Dodger fan at heart, but also consider myself a baseball fan in general. Everyone worries about money and who has the highest payroll and everything and I find it personally dumb. You can have a team of nothing but the highest paid free agents, but they still have to play the game and they still have to be able to work together to be able to win. Look at the Giants last year. Spending the most doesn't mean you'll always win. And yea, the contracts the Yanks give out might increase the price for other players, that just means you have to have a good farm system to be able to replace the players that get too expensive. You work with what you have. If you have money, go ahead and spend it. If you don't have money, you find a different way to win (which usually means homegrown talent). Look at the Marlins, they don't have the money the Yanks do but they are always able to stay in it pretty far in the year with the talent they have. Look at the Twins and the success they've been able to have, not by spending money, but by the way they run their organization.

Sad part is not every team can be the Yankees. But if baseball didn't have the Yankees, the game would probably be dead by now.

bringinwood
12-09-2010, 03:29 PM
I was responding to your comment that the Yankees have poor player development. Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Pettitte, Gardner, Montero, and Hughes were all developed by the Yankees. So was Austin Jackson, who was dealt for Granderson.

They do...

To not have a replacement for Jeter after 14 years is absurd...

To have to resign Pettitte to his 15MM a year demand is pretty crazy...

To sign CC Sabathia away from the Brewers because you have no one in the farm is crazy...

To sign Mark Teixeria because your other option is Nick Johnson is crazy...

I'd rather have Austin Jackson for the record...

You haven't promoted an impact player of worldly proportions in 14 years...

There's your player development ( Cano is questionable on any other lineup other than the Yankees )...

isuk
12-09-2010, 03:30 PM
Of course not.

First, we've yet to see where the final payrolls are, how the Yankees respond, and whether they bring any rings or not (lots of teams have tried to "buy" championships - we only remember those that worked, like the 97 Fish and the 09 Yanks).

Second, while this has arguable increased parity between the Yanks and a few other teams, we're still looking at Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Tigers, maybe the Rangers, and a lunatic in Washington. No one believes the Rays can afford to retain CC, or that the Padres were chasing Lee, or that Werth might go to Milwaukee. We may have a couple more "have" teams added to the mix, but all that does is expand the scope of the argument from "Yankees" to "Yankees, Sox and a couple of other teams".

You forgot the '10 giants...

Cody Ross, Pat the ****ing Bat, Aubrey Huff, Javier Lopez, Mike fontenot, Chris Ray. See, buying your rings is the only way to do it:cool:

Akuhpelluh
12-09-2010, 03:31 PM
As I have said several times in the past...

Jeter, Posada, Rivera, and Pettitte no longer count towards your " homegrown talent"... They have been signed to extensions that have exceeded 400MM over their careers... When you sign a 36 yr old SS to a 51MM contract when he isn't top 5 at his position, it spells D-E-S-P-E-R-A-T-I-O-N.... It doesn't say we are extending one of our own players to a hometown discount because it's for the betterment of our organization...

Gardner and Cano are not nearly close to the players they have touted to be and could never survive in an NL West lineup...

That leaves Montero and Hughes...

Ok you got that...



:facepalm: Please tell me you didn't really say the best 2nd baseman in baseball and 3rd place in 2010 mvp voting wouldn't survive in an NL West lineup.

Forget about Gardner for a second, who essentially is Carl Crawford without the power and smarter on the basepaths. Your ignorance in your denouncing of Robinson Cano speaks enough on its own.


Also, I fail to see your logic in your "Yankees can't call Jeter, Mo, Pettite and Posada homegrown because they've been paid so handsomely" argument.

Jeter got a huge contract more for his legacy to the Yankees than anything else. The man iwill be mentioned in the same breath as Ruth, Mantle, Gehrig and Dimaggio when all is said and done and very well may be the Yankees first ever 3,000 hitter. That's not desperation kid, it's well spent money to keep the face of baseball where it belongs.

Posada up until last year was a top 5 offensive catcher in baseball. Pettitte has long been a great pitcher, and Mo is the greatest closer to ever play the game.

They came from our farm system, and have been giants among men and been paid in kind. It doesn't mean they are not home grown.

Go back under your bridge, troll.

LeQuit James
12-09-2010, 03:32 PM
HAHA boston still doesnt have a ring with this roster

bringinwood
12-09-2010, 03:37 PM
:facepalm: Please tell me you didn't really say the best 2nd baseman in baseball and 3rd place in 2010 mvp voting wouldn't survive in an NL West lineup.

Forget about Gardner for a second, who essentially is Carl Crawford without the power and smarter on the basepaths. Your ignorance in your denouncing of Robinson Cano speaks enough on its own.

Also, I fail to see your logic in your "Yankees can't call Jeter, Mo, Pettite and Posada homegrown because they've been paid so handsomely" argument.

Jeter got a huge contract more for his legacy to the Yankees than anything else. The man iwill be mentioned in the same breath as Ruth, Mantle, Gehrig and Dimaggio when all is said and done and very well may be the Yankees first ever 3,000 hitter. That's not desperation kid, it's well spent money to keep the face of baseball where it belongs.

Posada up until last year was a top 5 offensive catcher in baseball. Pettitte has long been a great pitcher, and Mo is the greatest closer to ever play the game.

They came from our farm system, and have been giants among men and been paid in kind. It doesn't mean they are not home grown.

Go back under your bridge, troll.

Please tell me you didn't just compare Crawford and Gardner... Oh please tell me the Yankees have more educated posters... For the love of everything holy...

Put me and my out of shape *** in a lineup in front of Teixeria, A-Rod, and Granderson and see how I produce...

MagicBucsSox
12-09-2010, 03:40 PM
idk why ppl say this nonsense of buying rings. EVERYONE WHO WINS A TITLE "BUYS RINGS" CAUSE THEY ALL PAY PLAYERS. you cant go around labeling or crying foul because two teams do it more than others.

ps plus its not the yanks or sox fault you chose not to be a fan of the two money empires

theslick1
12-09-2010, 03:40 PM
They do...

To not have a replacement for Jeter after 14 years is absurd...

To have to resign Pettitte to his 15MM a year demand is pretty crazy...

To sign CC Sabathia away from the Brewers because you have no one in the farm is crazy...

To sign Mark Teixeria because your other option is Nick Johnson is crazy...

I'd rather have Austin Jackson for the record...

You haven't promoted an impact player of worldly proportions in 14 years...

There's your player development ( Cano is questionable on any other lineup other than the Yankees )...

This is just crazy stupid. Any NL West GM would wet himself over the prospect of having Robinson Cano in his lineup.

Why is it absurd not to have a replacement for Jeter when they still have Jeter? To me, it would be pretty stupid to have a major league ready SS wasting away at AAA for the next three years while Jeter finishes his career.

I'm not going to go through the Yankee roster man by man, but they carry a lot of guys who came up through their system, and they have guys in their system who will come up in the next year or two. Their system isn't the league's best, but it isn't nearly the league's worst either. Most rankings of minor league systems have them somewhere in the middle.

MagicBucsSox
12-09-2010, 03:43 PM
HAHA boston still doesnt have a ring with this roster

says the guy from ohio lol aka no titles, in any sports 60+ yrs now

theslick1
12-09-2010, 03:44 PM
Please tell me you didn't just compare Crawford and Gardner... Oh please tell me the Yankees have more educated posters... For the love of everything holy...

Put me and my out of shape *** in a lineup in front of Teixeria, A-Rod, and Granderson and see how I produce...

Gardner got on base at a .383 clip last season, which is better than what Crawford did and is better than what you and your "out of shape ***" could have done.

bringinwood
12-09-2010, 03:47 PM
This is just crazy stupid. Any NL West GM would wet himself over the prospect of having Robinson Cano in his lineup.

Why is it absurd not to have a replacement for Jeter when they still have Jeter? To me, it would be pretty stupid to have a major league ready SS wasting away at AAA for the next three years while Jeter finishes his career.

I'm not going to go through the Yankee roster man by man, but they carry a lot of guys who came up through their system, and they have guys in their system who will come up in the next year or two. Their system isn't the league's best, but it isn't nearly the league's worst either. Most rankings of minor league systems have them somewhere in the middle.

In all fairness, Cano wouldn't garner the attention around the league that you think he would...

Cano, when he was being showcased just a couple of seasons ago as tradebait, didn't register one hit...

No one wanted to touch him... Why would that change now ??? Because he hit .300 in a lineup that could be considered one of the most stacked of all time...

Example: Kevin Millar...

mrker
12-09-2010, 03:47 PM
I'm not even a Yankee fan so don't yell a me. I'm a Dodger fan at heart, but also consider myself a baseball fan in general. Everyone worries about money and who has the highest payroll and everything and I find it personally dumb. You can have a team of nothing but the highest paid free agents, but they still have to play the game and they still have to be able to work together to be able to win. Look at the Giants last year. Spending the most doesn't mean you'll always win. And yea, the contracts the Yanks give out might increase the price for other players, that just means you have to have a good farm system to be able to replace the players that get too expensive. You work with what you have. If you have money, go ahead and spend it. If you don't have money, you find a different way to win (which usually means homegrown talent). Look at the Marlins, they don't have the money the Yanks do but they are always able to stay in it pretty far in the year with the talent they have. Look at the Twins and the success they've been able to have, not by spending money, but by the way they run their organization.

Sad part is not every team can be the Yankees. But if baseball didn't have the Yankees, the game would probably be dead by now.

I guess i should have looked at you handle first:o
BUT baseball would be dead:speechless: come on... i am a BLUE JAYS fan and have to watch these teams spend spend spend. i wouldn`t care if all the FA went to those teams ,if thats where they want to play but when the choice becomes, play for this team or turn down 20-60mil more than any other team can afford, you get the feeling that it`s groundhog day(great movie) .....would love the yankees and their titles if the game(FA) didn`t feel like it was always tipped in their favour, I wouldn`t care if the playoffs expanded and the regular season meant alittle less in the big picture, 7 teams each AL,NL and the top team in each ,gets a first round bye,

quiksilver2491
12-09-2010, 03:48 PM
:facepalm: Please tell me you didn't really say the best 2nd baseman in baseball and 3rd place in 2010 mvp voting wouldn't survive in an NL West lineup.

Best 2nd basemen in baseball after 1 year :facepalm:

Robinson Cano WAR 2007-2010 - 15.7

Dustin Pedroia WAR 2007-2010 - 18.7

Chase Utley WAR 2007-2010 - 28.7

Cano is a very good player, but he's 3rd to both Pedroia and Utley...and Utley is BY FAR the best.

PhightingPhils
12-09-2010, 03:50 PM
No offense, but this arguement is pointless. This is way it is going to be until the end of time because this makes headlines for baseball and continues to drive the sport. Now teams just have to continue to put the right personnel in place to scout talent or else its pittsburgh pirate time

PhightingPhils
12-09-2010, 03:50 PM
i agree with quicksilver

theslick1
12-09-2010, 04:01 PM
Best 2nd basemen in baseball after 1 year :facepalm:

Robinson Cano WAR 2007-2010 - 15.7

Dustin Pedroia WAR 2007-2010 - 18.7

Chase Utley WAR 2007-2010 - 28.7

Cano is a very good player, but he's 3rd to both Pedroia and Utley...and Utley is BY FAR the best.

Nice analysis. How about this one.

2010:
Cano - 6.4
Utley - 5.2
Pedroia - 3.7

It's interesting how we can make stats say whatever we need them to say. ;)

nycsports2
12-09-2010, 04:02 PM
I dont think either of them do look at the yanks roster half of its homegrown/ boston maybe a little less so but still have good players from the system

Swishalicious
12-09-2010, 04:08 PM
nice analysis. How about this one.

2010:
Cano - 6.4
utley - 5.2
pedroia - 3.7

it's interesting how we can make stats say whatever we need them to say. ;)

this

redsox0717
12-09-2010, 04:09 PM
Nice analysis. How about this one.

2010:
Cano - 6.4
Utley - 5.2
Pedroia - 3.7

It's interesting how we can make stats say whatever we need them to say. ;)

Yes, because we all know a one year sample size tells us more than three.

Kelly Gruber
12-09-2010, 04:11 PM
Soon there will be 3 MLB teams:

1. New York Yankees
2. Boston Red Sox
3. Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim Dodgers

May as well pledge your allegance now. Because if you're not a fan of one of those teams now, you'll be cheering for a AAA team soon enough.

quiksilver2491
12-09-2010, 04:14 PM
Nice analysis. How about this one.

2010:
Cano - 6.4
Utley - 5.2
Pedroia - 3.7

It's interesting how we can make stats say whatever we need them to say. ;)

I already acknowledged he was amazing after 1 year..baseball isn't accurately measured off of one season.

Call it manipulating the stats but anyone with good logic for the game knows larger sample sizes are more indicative of true player performance then a sample size of only one season. Why must Yankee fans get upset about having a top 3 player not considered the best?

misterd
12-09-2010, 04:17 PM
The Red Sox are still within the luxury tax and spending 40mil less than the Yankees.

The cost of players has been driven way up because of contracts the Yankees dish out. Other teams have to give players absurd contracts or they will be outbid by the Yankees.

Its really sad, but the only way to get a top FA is to overspend. Because if you dont, the Yankees will.

ARod aside, because that is a damn stupid contract and the man who negotiated was put in the corner and hasn't been allowed out for 4 years, the Yanks haven't often been the ones to raise the AAV bar, or when they have, not by much.

Sabathia was basically paid according to what Santana was paid by the Mets.

Teixeira didn't get paid much more than Manny was 8 years earlier.

misterd
12-09-2010, 04:18 PM
I already acknowledged he was amazing after 1 year..baseball isn't accurately measured off of one season.

Call it manipulating the stats but anyone with good logic for the game knows larger sample sizes are more indicative of true player performance then a sample size of only one season. Why must Yankee fans get upset about having a top 3 player not considered the best?

If Pedrios was a Royal, Marlin or Padre they wouldn't give a damn. It's only because Pedroia is a Sox that it gives fans hives.

Now have fun watching them try to argue that Teix is better than AGon.

misterd
12-09-2010, 04:19 PM
Soon there will be 3 MLB teams:

1. New York Yankees
2. Boston Red Sox
3. Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim Dodgers

May as well pledge your allegance now. Because if you're not a fan of one of those teams now, you'll be cheering for a AAA team soon enough.

Pittsburg has a head start.

misterd
12-09-2010, 04:21 PM
Nice analysis. How about this one.

2010:
Cano - 6.4
Utley - 5.2
Pedroia - 3.7

It's interesting how we can make stats say whatever we need them to say. ;)

Only when you fail to establish clear parameters in the debate.

Cano was the best 2nd baseman LAST YEAR, but Pedrioa and Utley have been better over the last several years.

And none of it means a damn for 2011.

TriplePlay
12-09-2010, 04:51 PM
Sorry, I don't care about any of those stats above. I've watched them all play and I wouldn't take any of them over Utley. He is the better player and has been the last few years at 2nd base. I would take Uggla over Pedroia any day. Uggla has had 30+ homers for 5 straight years...

The X
12-09-2010, 05:06 PM
Prove it :p

Here is the difference yankees fans: The Sox are better at spending money, simple fact.

That may be the dumbest thing I've heard all week. Lackey and beckett? Just to name a few. Remember them? Not to mention all the other horrible deals over the years, but both teams have made bad deals to be fair.

TriplePlay
12-09-2010, 05:14 PM
:facepalm: Please tell me you didn't really say the best 2nd baseman in baseball and 3rd place in 2010 mvp voting wouldn't survive in an NL West lineup.

Forget about Gardner for a second, who essentially is Carl Crawford without the power and smarter on the basepaths. Your ignorance in your denouncing of Robinson Cano speaks enough on its own.


Also, I fail to see your logic in your "Yankees can't call Jeter, Mo, Pettite and Posada homegrown because they've been paid so handsomely" argument.

Jeter got a huge contract more for his legacy to the Yankees than anything else. The man iwill be mentioned in the same breath as Ruth, Mantle, Gehrig and Dimaggio when all is said and done and very well may be the Yankees first ever 3,000 hitter. That's not desperation kid, it's well spent money to keep the face of baseball where it belongs.

Posada up until last year was a top 5 offensive catcher in baseball. Pettitte has long been a great pitcher, and Mo is the greatest closer to ever play the game.

They came from our farm system, and have been giants among men and been paid in kind. It doesn't mean they are not home grown.

Go back under your bridge, troll.


Jeter is no where near the contract he received from the Yankees. ONLY the Yankees would have given a has been player that much money. And all I've seen from Yankee fans is crying about the Bo Sox spending money on Crawford. I'm glad they did, and to be honest, I wish they'd steal Lee too. For years the Yankees have been trying to buy championships. Nothing pleases me more than to see the Yankees lose with such a ridiculous payroll. I hope the Red Sox keep spending too. Answer me this, is that horrible payroll really worth watching the Giants vs Rangers in the World Series?

Here is a bit of trivia for everyone. Did you know that the 2 teams that played in the 2010 World Series COMBINED, has a smaller payroll than the NY Yankees?

You see you Yankees fans. It can be done through hard work. You don't have to try and buy a championship.

CAIN=FUTURE
12-09-2010, 05:16 PM
I thought the Giants bought their rings this year (and for a good value).

Huh? Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez, Posey, Bumgarner, Wilson, Sandoval, Schierholtz, and Romo were all home grown.

theslick1
12-09-2010, 05:21 PM
Yes, because we all know a one year sample size tells us more than three.

His was a 4 year sample. What's more of an indicator of how a player will perform in 2011 - how he performed in 2007 or how he performed in 2010?

theslick1
12-09-2010, 05:24 PM
I already acknowledged he was amazing after 1 year..baseball isn't accurately measured off of one season.

No, but if you're trying to predict how a player will do in 2011, why look at 2007 and 2008?


Call it manipulating the stats but anyone with good logic for the game knows larger sample sizes are more indicative of true player performance then a sample size of only one season. Why must Yankee fans get upset about having a top 3 player not considered the best?

Probably the same reason it's important for Phillie fan to insist that Utley is better than the rest - homerism.

Johann
12-09-2010, 05:26 PM
they might not buy their championships, but i still don like em'

OneManIsNoMan
12-09-2010, 05:28 PM
Every team buys championships cause every teams signs FA's. Some teams win it with a Ferrari (Yankess/Sox) and some win it with a Honda Civic (Giants/Marlins).

theslick1
12-09-2010, 05:29 PM
Jeter is no where near the contract he received from the Yankees. ONLY the Yankees would have given a has been player that much money. And all I've seen from Yankee fans is crying about the Bo Sox spending money on Crawford. I'm glad they did, and to be honest, I wish they'd steal Lee too. For years the Yankees have been trying to buy championships. Nothing pleases me more than to see the Yankees lose with such a ridiculous payroll. I hope the Red Sox keep spending too. Answer me this, is that horrible payroll really worth watching the Giants vs Rangers in the World Series?

Here is a bit of trivia for everyone. Did you know that the 2 teams that played in the 2010 World Series COMBINED, has a smaller payroll than the NY Yankees?

You see you Yankees fans. It can be done through hard work. You don't have to try and buy a championship.

I keep forgetting that the Rangers and Giants players weren't paid.

dtmagnet
12-09-2010, 05:50 PM
I'm and Jays fan and I can honestly say, that I hate both the Yankees and Red Sox equally.

Johann
12-09-2010, 06:08 PM
I'm a Jays fan and I can honestly say, that I still hate the Yankees a bit more than the Sox

KingPosey
12-09-2010, 06:35 PM
Since last offseason the Red Sox have spent money on:

Lackey: 5 years/82M

Beckett: 4 years/68M

Crawford: 7 years/142M

Gonzalez: (soon to be): 8 years 167M

Is it really fair to only judge the Yankees, or is it time to put the blame on someone else, considering the magnitude of the contract to Crawford?

309M committed in the last 3 days.

Are Crawford and Gonzalez really only worth 20M less than Sabathia and Teixeira?
first off, beckett was already on the ir team.
2ndly, of course they still do. Just because someone else is doing what you do, doesnt mean you arent doing it. thats stupid.

long ball
12-09-2010, 06:42 PM
I genuinely feel bad for the fans of the Blue Jays, Orioles, and Rays. The most those teams can realistically expect to do is have a couple of years where they have a shot at the playoffs then it's back to the drawing board.

The Orioles and Blue Jays have money to spend, but they don't have near the same amount the Yankees and Red Sox do. It took the Rays years and years of sucking before they built up their farm system enough to contend, but that only lasted 3 years and they're likely to fall back to the middle of the AL pack now.

It's got to be just deflating to see the Yankees and Red Sox acquire the majority of the best players every off season.

bringinwood
12-09-2010, 06:43 PM
I keep forgetting that the Rangers and Giants players weren't paid.

This is completely relevant to the discussion...

If you don't like that people are making the Yankee's look stupid, then leave...

The Yankee's are a horribly run franchise... They lose money and outbid themselves to sign overrated players to massively inflated contracts...

Congratulations, you are a fan of a team that is run by a group of morons...

tonyd3b54
12-09-2010, 06:43 PM
theres one difference that people fail to recognize here... two of those names you mentioned beckett and gonzalez were both through TRADES which mean the redsox had to build a good farm system and trade valuble prospects for those players. the redsox gave up hanley ramirez for beckett and gave up 2 of their top 3 prospects along with another pretty good one for agon. the signings for those two are just to keep them. are we going to punish the redsox for extending their players that are already theirs??? the yankees just go out and sign every FA... theres a difference here.

TheGiantYankee
12-09-2010, 06:47 PM
This is completely relevant to the discussion...

If you don't like that people are making the Yankee's look stupid, then leave...

The Yankee's are a horribly run franchise... They lose money and outbid themselves to sign overrated players to massively inflated contracts...

Congratulations, you are a fan of a team that is run by a group of morons...

:laugh2: If you honestly believe that...:laugh2:

Case and point: Jeter, last year, when he "faked" getting hit by the pitch..IT WAS EVERYWHERE..Any other non-Yankee it would be a non-story.

The Yankees are everywhere and they are always making money.


Huh? Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez, Posey, Bumgarner, Wilson, Sandoval, Schierholtz, and Romo were all home grown.

The MVP of the World series wasn't. I think that is what he meant by "good value"

bringinwood
12-09-2010, 06:51 PM
:laugh2: If you honestly believe that...:laugh2:

Case and point: Jeter, last year, when he "faked" getting hit by the pitch..IT WAS EVERYWHERE..Any other non-Yankee it would be a non-story.

The Yankees are everywhere and they are always making money.

Alright... You got me there...

They don't lose money, but they sure as hell don't spend it wisely either...

To think that they'd become less of a franchise for running their organization in a more traditional manner that doesn't inflate ticket sales for every person in America is pretty unsubstantiated...

They would probably become more of a franchise by pumping half that money into player development...

ruckus16969
12-09-2010, 07:02 PM
The Yankees made it this way.. Theo avoided this for as long as he could and he is just keeping up with the times

YanksNats1987
12-09-2010, 07:24 PM
theres one difference that people fail to recognize here... two of those names you mentioned beckett and gonzalez were both through TRADES which mean the redsox had to build a good farm system and trade valuble prospects for those players. the redsox gave up hanley ramirez for beckett and gave up 2 of their top 3 prospects along with another pretty good one for agon. the signings for those two are just to keep them. are we going to punish the redsox for extending their players that are already theirs??? the yankees just go out and sign every FA... theres a difference here.

That's a good thing to have of course, but some teams won't make the trade because they know they can't sign the guys longterm once they acquire them. Teams like the Yanks and Sox can afford to trade for guys if they want to with hopes of signing them eventually. Either way you look at it, money is still being thrown around. Commend the Marlins and Padres for getting prospects in return, there was no other options as the players would've left via free agency anyways.

Young2Kinsler
12-09-2010, 07:27 PM
Probably the same reason it's important for Phillie fan to insist that Utley is better than the rest - homerism.

Yeaaaahhh...no. Utley is simply better than Cano. YOU are being a homer if you can't admit that, Philly fans are just speaking FACTS.

It's a slam dunk, no doubt about it, slamalamadingdong homerun that Utley is better than Cano, and to me it's not even close.

nasthemasta
12-09-2010, 07:55 PM
No its not over because the Yanks are and will continue to by championships, but now it's a little company lol, though I believe the Sox run their Organization better.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....im guessing its their 27 world championships that allow you to make that statement out of your ***

theslick1
12-09-2010, 07:59 PM
This is completely relevant to the discussion...

If you don't like that people are making the Yankee's look stupid, then leave...

The Yankee's are a horribly run franchise... They lose money and outbid themselves to sign overrated players to massively inflated contracts...

Congratulations, you are a fan of a team that is run by a group of morons...

Let's see, playoffs 14 of the last 15 years and a handfull of WS wins in that time. If that's what "morons" can do with their overspending, them bravo to the morons.

theslick1
12-09-2010, 08:00 PM
Yeaaaahhh...no. Utley is simply better than Cano. YOU are being a homer if you can't admit that, Philly fans are just speaking FACTS.

It's a slam dunk, no doubt about it, slamalamadingdong homerun that Utley is better than Cano, and to me it's not even close.

I guess if to you it isn't close, that must make it true. Sorry for having a different opinion.

Raiderwood
12-09-2010, 08:38 PM
They do...

To not have a replacement for Jeter after 14 years is absurd...

To have to resign Pettitte to his 15MM a year demand is pretty crazy...

To sign CC Sabathia away from the Brewers because you have no one in the farm is crazy...

To sign Mark Teixeria because your other option is Nick Johnson is crazy...

I'd rather have Austin Jackson for the record...

You haven't promoted an impact player of worldly proportions in 14 years...

There's your player development ( Cano is questionable on any other lineup other than the Yankees )...
We signed Sabathia, you signed Doc..whats the Phils reasoning for that?

Nick Johnson was never signed to be a starting first baseman..he was to be a DH. Why did you give Ryan Howard the big extension?

So what if we sign Pettite..you guys got Oswalt last year at the deadline..our guy is proven in the playoffs and WS, why wouldnt we sign a pitcher with that resume and a low ERA...

AJAX/Grandy...we'll see how it plays out, Grandy is a good CF in Yankee Stadium and his hitting came around at the end of the season.. Ajax is going to do well for the Tigers; even better if he cuts down on the Strikeouts.. not a bad trade..so far...

And Jeter..you don't instantly replace a future Hall of Famer ....they have 1 or 2 guys in the minors and Nunez on the roster...fortunately we don't need to replace him yet, we still have a few yrs. And you will need to do the same thing with Rollins and Utley....

For the record...I like the Phils, they play great ball, have good pitching, timely hitting and the ballpark is awesome...but your argument here doesnt hold water....

infernoscurse
12-09-2010, 08:41 PM
both sides arguing about this is stupid

pasquale
12-09-2010, 09:08 PM
I've never understood all the hype about Crawford. Cant hit homers in a little league park like Tampa Bay. He can steal bases, whoopee lets give him a blank cheque. As far as batting average not exactly close to Joe Mauer, always around 300, whoopee. Another dumb deal for the Red Sox. Ellsbury healthy is a better gamble than Crawford.

newenglandking
12-09-2010, 09:10 PM
either the sox or yanks we're going to end up with tex or agon, its a soap opera they use money to fill holes is this news ....

F*(&"Next Year"
12-09-2010, 09:24 PM
As far as batting average not exactly close to Joe Mauer, always around 300, whoopee. Another dumb deal for the Red Sox.

Are you really comparing anyone to mauer? That's whats dumb. And to always be around .300? That to me stands for consistently good...

Whoopee?:facepalm:

cambovenzi
12-09-2010, 09:33 PM
I've never understood all the hype about Crawford. Cant hit homers in a little league park like Tampa Bay. He can steal bases, whoopee lets give him a blank cheque. As far as batting average not exactly close to Joe Mauer, always around 300, whoopee. Another dumb deal for the Red Sox. Ellsbury healthy is a better gamble than Crawford.

Yea obviously nothing special with a ~7 WAR player.

:facepalm:

AI
12-10-2010, 02:08 PM
Crawford, Gonzalez don't bust the budget
1:13 PM Thu, Dec 09, 2010 | Permalink
Brian MacPherson****Email
A variety of factors allowed Theo Epstein to spend what will turn out to be close to $300 million over the next seven years for Carl Crawford and Adrian Gonzalez, two players who threaten to tip the balance of power in the American League East -- and all of Major League Baseball.

Epstein isn't operating with a blank check from John Henry. If not for the way the Red Sox payroll has been set up, they might not have been able to spend what they're spending.

Some of the factors:

* Adrian Gonzalez will play for peanuts in 2011. The first baseman signed a four-year, $9.5 million contract three seasons ago in San Diego -- a contract that looks laughable now -- that included a club option for 2011 now worth $6.3 million. Once Gonzalez signs his contract extension with the Red Sox, he'll come close to quadrupling his salary. But, in 2011, Gonzalez and Crawford combined will cost the Red Sox a little over $25 million.

Contrast that to the money already off the books:

* Mike Lowell earned $12 million last season.
* Adrian Beltre earned $10 million last season.
* Victor Martinez earned $7.7 million last season.
* Heck, even Julio Lugo was still due close to $9 million from the Red Sox last season thanks to the four-year contract he signed in 2007.

The Red Sox still owe raises to their arbitration-eligible players, a factor not to be ignored. But the above quartet was paid close to $39 million in salary last season, and all of those obligations are gone.

* Gonzalez will be due a monster raise starting in 2012. According to reports, he'll eventually sign an extension worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $150 million over seven years. Crawford and Gonzalez combined will make around $45 million in 2012.

But there's still more money coming off the books:

* J.D. Drew will be paid $14 million in the final year of his contract.
* David Ortiz will be paid $12.5 million in the final year of his contract.
* Jonathan Papelbon will be paid around $12 million in the final year of his contract.
* Mike Cameron will be paid $7.75 million in the final year of his contract.

Several of those players, of course, will have to be replaced. But Ryan Kalish probably will take over for Drew in right field and earn pocket change for three seasons. Daniel Bard will probably take over for Papelbon and earn pocket change for two or three seasons. Cameron already has been relegated to duty as the fourth outfielder, and fourth outfielders tend to come cheap.

All told, the Red Sox will clear $46.25 million from their books after the 2011 season just by losing those four players. Crawford and Gonzalez already are paid for.

Because the Red Sox have signed some of their talented young players, they'll start to stretch the limits of their budget in 2013. Jon Lester and Dustin Pedroia both will earn more than $10 million per season for the first time in 2013, and arbitration-eligible players like Jacoby Ellsbury and Clay Buchholz will be making quite a bit of money, too.

But if the Red Sox can continue to supplement their expensive players with young, cheap players -- Jose Iglesias will be earning minimum wage at shortstop for his first three seasons, for example -- they're going to stay well within a reasonable budget.

Just wanted to post this to clear up the whole "buying" crap. We did spend money but we still will have the same payroll going forward. On the other hand, the Yankees payroll is between $40-50M higher than that of the Red Sox and that number will go up if they sign Cliff Lee.


For what it's worth, Red Sox payroll still $40-50 million lower than Yankees, so it's not a fight Yankees fans should pick. 1:43 PM Dec 9th via web in reply to mrvigs013

You know what the Sox could do with $40-50M+ to what we already have? That is 2 max players and a couple of bullpen arms. Trust me, when it comes to spending and "buying" the Yankees clearly are the organization known for that.

Crawford 7 years $142M + A-Gon 7 years $154M = $296M for two players we needed. The Yanks on the other hand almost match that figure with one contract, A-Rod $275M.

Since 2002, the Red Sox have raised their payroll by 55.2%. Within all of baseball, they have outspent the next highest-spending team (the Mets) by 10% and the next highest-spending American League team (the Angels) by nearly 26%. The problem, of course, are the Yankees, who have outspent the Red Sox by 46.6% since Henry became owner, an average of $59.3 million a year. But for the extra $534 million the Yankees have spent the last nine years, they have 36 more wins in the regular season and a grand total of two more victories in the playoffs (Red Sox 2 WS vs the Yanks 1 WS). For a team with apparently unlimited resources, that is not much of a reward.

theslick1
12-10-2010, 02:37 PM
Just wanted to post this to clear up the whole "buying" crap. We did spend money but we still will have the same payroll going forward. On the other hand, the Yankees payroll is between $40-50M higher than that of the Red Sox and that number will go up if they sign Cliff Lee.

You know what the Sox could do with $40-50M+ to what we already have? That is 2 max players and a couple of bullpen arms. Trust me, when it comes to spending and "buying" the Yankees clearly are the organization known for that.

Crawford 7 years $142M + A-Gon 7 years $154M = $296M for two players we needed. The Yanks on the other hand almost match that figure with one contract, A-Rod $275M.

Since 2002, the Red Sox have raised their payroll by 55.2%. Within all of baseball, they have outspent the next highest-spending team (the Mets) by 10% and the next highest-spending American League team (the Angels) by nearly 26%. The problem, of course, are the Yankees, who have outspent the Red Sox by 46.6% since Henry became owner, an average of $59.3 million a year. But for the extra $534 million the Yankees have spent the last nine years, they have 36 more wins in the regular season and a grand total of two more victories in the playoffs (Red Sox 2 WS vs the Yanks 1 WS). For a team with apparently unlimited resources, that is not much of a reward.

Just because the Yankees outspend the Red Sox does not mean the Red Sox don't try to buy championships, the same way that the Yankees do. What's the problem with admitting that both teams follow the same strategy (i.e., develop from within, supplement with big dollar free agents)?

NationsGay1077
12-10-2010, 03:06 PM
Since 2002 the Yankees have spent approx. $500M+ more than the Red Sox. In terms of "spending money" it's clear you guys spend more than us. We had money to spend this year because alot of contracts came off the books this offseason, not because we have unlimited revenue (coughs - yankees).

Our payroll will stay close to what it was last year, $160M you guys are talking about a $200-210M payroll. Don't talk to me about spending $ when Crawfords and A-Gons contract combined ($296M) is almost equal to that of A-Rod ($275M) and he is only 1 player.

Shhhhhhhh ;)

Whats this Us and We and Our, Do you work in Boston's front office?

faze38
12-10-2010, 03:07 PM
Prove it :p

Here is the difference yankees fans: The Sox are better at spending money, simple fact.

and that is proven because the red sox have 30 championships right?! Please i mean u guys win a few rings and all of a sudden the Boston fans get delusional and think they are better then the Yankees in something. I think it's time for u sox fans to wake up there is not one thing u guys do better then us as far as running teams

Real World
12-10-2010, 10:53 PM
Prove it :p

Here is the difference yankees fans: The Sox are better at spending money, simple fact.

Somewhere in the Caribean, Julio Lugo just laughed his arse off.

Kenny Powders
12-10-2010, 11:01 PM
Funny thing is....the Yankees have one once in the last decade. So the title should be "The Yankees buy their RING officially over"

Aussy4GM
12-10-2010, 11:09 PM
Prove it :p

Here is the difference yankees fans: The Sox are better at spending money, simple fact.

Yeah youre right. Because Sabathia & Tex were a waste of money. :facepalm:

wright30510
12-10-2010, 11:29 PM
Since last offseason the Red Sox have spent money on:

Lackey: 5 years/82M

Beckett: 4 years/68M

Crawford: 7 years/142M

Gonzalez: (soon to be): 8 years 167M

Is it really fair to only judge the Yankees, or is it time to put the blame on someone else, considering the magnitude of the contract to Crawford?

309M committed in the last 3 days.

Are Crawford and Gonzalez really only worth 20M less than Sabathia and Teixeira?

The redsoxs traded the best hsortstop in he league HAnley ramirez to get Josh beckett and good prospects to get gonzalez.So what they signed 2 players to keep up with the yankees and the players they signed werent the top guy. SO stop whinning because the redsoxs stole crawfrd from u guys. and I bet anything u would prefer the redsox have beckett then hanley so hop off

nessythegreat
12-11-2010, 12:31 AM
No, the Yankees and Red Sox both try to buy championships every year, until there is a salary cap or what not.. this will continue for a very long time. Honestly, If I were a Yankee or Sox fan, I couldnt have pride in my organization for always taking other teams stars/icons. I would be ashamed of my team for such acts.

1hardcore
12-11-2010, 01:06 AM
2 words

Salary Cap


i know it will never be done ... but it's either that or realignment

F*(&"Next Year"
12-11-2010, 01:40 AM
The redsoxs traded the best hsortstop in he league HAnley ramirez to get Josh beckett and good prospects to get gonzalez.So what they signed 2 players to keep up with the yankees and the players they signed werent the top guy. SO stop whinning because the redsoxs stole crawfrd from u guys. and I bet anything u would prefer the redsox have beckett then hanley so hop off
Wow, what a nightmare of a post.

The Hanley trade also sent Mike Lowell to the Red Sox, who became instrumental to the 07 championship.
Also, if you think Hanley is the best shortstop then Troy Tulowitzki would like to have a word with you.



As for the arguement for a salary cap, there certainly won't be one for the forseeable future, so its a mute point.

My dad always told me growing up "you get what you pay for".
As long as there are no rules against spending absurd amounts of money, then have at it. Good for the Yanks if they want to spend 200M.

At the end of the day, when a team wins a championship, that teams fans don't ***** about how much money their team spent. They are winners.

Swishalicious
12-11-2010, 02:16 AM
Can we please end this senseless bickering.

In case you've lived under a rock the last twenty years, both the Red Sox and Yankees play the SAME GAME. Both make a lot of money and both spend a lot of money to make a winning team. Both get a lot of criticism for making winning teams.

At the end of the day, Red Sox and Yankees are doing the same thing, even if the numbers are slightly different in wins, payroll, etc. Their differences are nothing more than circumstance.

The end, stop arguing, you are basically arguing with yourself (to yankee and red sox fans)

The_Franchise13
12-11-2010, 09:56 AM
Not going to lie, I basically just skimmed this thread.

How many times has the highest payroll team won the title the past 10 years? Once. Buying a playoff spot? Sure. A championship? Nope.

The teams that are driven to win do it within the lines they are capable of. Some lines are further than others, but that's just how business works. It's been discussed (mostly intelligently) already, but a salary cap wouldn't provide immediate (2-3years) parity.

Like I've said before, is it fair the Yankees/Sox/<insert big market team here> can misfire or flat out overpay on some players and still be players in the FA? Nope.

Is it fair they put themselves in that position? Yep. MLB let them do it. There's no shame in playing within the rules.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

quade36
12-11-2010, 10:03 AM
Why can't we say yankees AND red sox buy their rings? Why pin the two teams against each other? They are basically the same team. The get the best free agent or player available for trade and make it happen. And PLEASE don't give me the good prospects crap. Players drop in the draft depending on who their agent is and how much cheap teams want to pay for them. Casey Kelly had a contract worth over 5 million dollars with a 2.6 mil signing bonus. He was the 28th selected or something like that. Meanwhile, you can look at Chris Sale drafted 13th, getting a 1.6 mil signing bonus. Its not coincidence teams like the red sox and yankees have good draft picks. They pay more and kids who want more slip to them.

theslick1
12-11-2010, 11:36 AM
Somewhere in the Caribean, Julio Lugo just laughed his arse off.

Manny Ramirez is laughing with him. He's going to collect about 30M over the next 16 years (1.94M per year) from the Red Sox.

theslick1
12-11-2010, 11:38 AM
Not going to lie, I basically just skimmed this thread.

How many times has the highest payroll team won the title the past 10 years? Once. Buying a playoff spot? Sure. A championship? Nope.


Of the top 8 payroll teams in 2010, only 2 made the playoffs. It's not that easy to "buy" a playoff spot.

zambo4president
12-11-2010, 06:23 PM
I think we'll hear it less because now it's not like there the only one to point the finger at. It's always been a stupid argument.

tc2deuce
12-11-2010, 07:04 PM
8 years 200 million for Lee from the yanks....mark it down......lee is good but that is just stooopid! CC 7 years 161 million and Lee, 8 years for 200 million= buying championships!

bosox3431
12-13-2010, 11:39 AM
I hate the argument that Boston can spend more because they're in a large market. The angels, dodgers and marlins are all in amlarge market. Now the first two do spend somewhat. I'm sorry the marlins have had ****** owners. Back in the 90s the marlins were near the top in attendance, but the owners got greedy and decided to blow the team up.

gbpack415
12-13-2010, 11:54 AM
Never gets old does it? Yanks will ALWAYS get **** because everyone loves to hate them. I understand, it comes with the territory. Smarter or not, Boston has spent alot of money as well. Like I said, it'll never get old, it'll never stop. Constant bickering between fans of both teams. Both fans are right, both fans are wrong. All teams make mistakes on players, all teams overpay, and all teams make great value deals for great players.

Towelie
12-13-2010, 12:08 PM
The Sox do spend money we have for a while now, were No.2 for sure but there is still a big difference between No1, and No2.

Coachchaz
12-13-2010, 12:22 PM
28 other teams, but 25 of them dont need to worry as much. When the O's, Rays and Jays have payrolls anywhere near the Sox and Yanks, then I'll listen. Those 3 teams have to have the stars completely aligned in order to compete. The Rays did the past 3 years because they sucked for a long time and their youth panned out. But in one off season, Bartlett, Pena and Crawford are gone and their looking to deal Garza. So, odds are, they'll be right there with the O's and Jays and be another team that has to over speend to attract free agents simply because a 3rd of their schedule is played against the big spenders.

Things are too far gone to put a cap in place, so the answer has to be a realignment of some sort to create a disparity in the schedules. Let the Rangers or White Sox play the Yanks and Red Sox as often as the other AL East division teams do and let's see if their plans to increase payroll arent revisted or put on hold. Based on powers that cannot be controlled, there is just no way any other team in the division can compete with thise two over any consistent period of time.

Kenny Powders
12-13-2010, 05:10 PM
28 other teams, but 25 of them dont need to worry as much. When the O's, Rays and Jays have payrolls anywhere near the Sox and Yanks, then I'll listen. Those 3 teams have to have the stars completely aligned in order to compete. The Rays did the past 3 years because they sucked for a long time and their youth panned out. But in one off season, Bartlett, Pena and Crawford are gone and their looking to deal Garza. So, odds are, they'll be right there with the O's and Jays and be another team that has to over speend to attract free agents simply because a 3rd of their schedule is played against the big spenders.

Things are too far gone to put a cap in place, so the answer has to be a realignment of some sort to create a disparity in the schedules. Let the Rangers or White Sox play the Yanks and Red Sox as often as the other AL East division teams do and let's see if their plans to increase payroll arent revisted or put on hold. Based on powers that cannot be controlled, there is just no way any other team in the division can compete with thise two over any consistent period of time.

As hard as it is to compete in the AL East, your assumption that the Jays is completely off base.

They have fallen on hard times but they are on their way back. Their new relatively new GM has put a major emphasis on scouting and the fruits of his labour are starting to pay off, a mere year and a half after he was hired. We now have are in the top ten on baseball, with regards to prospects. Not included in that list are most of our high school draft picks who were drafted last year many of whom we went over slot to draft. We are also beginning to get a strong foothold in the Latin prospect pool.

And where we differ from the Rays and O's is that we actually do have the money to spend to hold on to our top players when they are fully developed. Rogers Corp., who owns the Jays were willing to commit 120 million + 4 years ago to winning. I am sure that number is probably somewhere around 15-160 now.

AA understands that we will have to over pay for free agents, and that is why he has said most of his dealings will be through trades. Hence, the strong farm system. This team is a few years away but when and if our prospects start to pan out we have the resources to pay for their big contracts or the big contracts of the players that they are traded for.

djak
12-13-2010, 05:20 PM
The yankees in 2009 (i haven't count this year too lazy for it) were the 2nd team in the big leagues with more homegrown players behind the rockies

Swishalicious
12-13-2010, 05:40 PM
The Sox do spend money we have for a while now, were No.2 for sure but there is still a big difference between No1, and No2.

A big part of that is due to Yankee players milking the yankees for all they are worth. They'd probably stay regardless, but they know they can get more $$ out of them (Jeter now at $17 million as opposed to previously $20 million, Posada at $13 million, Rodriguez was overpaid with $30 million........ A-rod might not be a yankee if not getting paid big, but yanks coulda threw $25 million or less [even $20 million] for 10 years and got him....thats a lot of wasted $).

Figure Jeter can get paid $15 million, Posada can get paid $10 million, and A-rod can get paid $20 million. The difference it wouldve made last year wouldve been around $18 million and then No.1 and No.2 wouldve been a lot closer.

In addition, if you look at the World Series in 2009, the difference in payrolls was smaller than in 2008 (Phillies v Rays).... so there is something to be said for that.

zrbcolor63
12-13-2010, 05:53 PM
8 years 200 million for Lee from the yanks....mark it down......lee is good but that is just stooopid! CC 7 years 161 million and Lee, 8 years for 200 million= buying championships!


ahh poor baby do u need a hanky ur breaking my heart lol

Robbw241
12-13-2010, 05:56 PM
It would be over if people stopped making ****ing threads about it. Such a moron.

Chucky Woods
12-13-2010, 06:04 PM
Nope basically both buy their teams.

Swishalicious
12-13-2010, 06:44 PM
It would be over if people stopped making ****ing threads about it. Such a moron.

THIS :clap:

Maybe the admins can take some action and keep posts like this, that focus on the Yankees, in the yankee forum. Its not MLB forum worthy

NoQuarter
12-13-2010, 08:20 PM
Do the Yankes spend the money they do because they can, or do they spend the money they do because they have to? Seems to me that Cashman just cannot compete on a level playing field with the other top GM's in the game.

theslick1
12-13-2010, 08:27 PM
Do the Yankes spend the money they do because they can, or do they spend the money they do because they have to? Seems to me that Cashman just cannot compete on a level playing field with the other top GM's in the game.

They spend money because they want to win.

Also, where is this "level playing field" that you speak of?

jiggin
12-13-2010, 08:34 PM
Since last offseason the Red Sox have spent money on:

Lackey: 5 years/82M

Beckett: 4 years/68M

Crawford: 7 years/142M

Gonzalez: (soon to be): 8 years 167M

Is it really fair to only judge the Yankees, or is it time to put the blame on someone else, considering the magnitude of the contract to Crawford?

309M committed in the last 3 days.

Are Crawford and Gonzalez really only worth 20M less than Sabathia and Teixeira?

no one said the yankees were the only problem...but they still are the leaders of the group.

the thing that makes this whole topic just sting so much is that the MLB front office patronizes the fan base into thinking that its actually a good thing for the sport and being competitive. Its so spot on wrong, and just like drugs ect... they play dumb, then try and point to some economic indicators that say it is good the way it is, similar to the BCS arguments. The motivator is financial, and it comes from several levels including players/agents and the MLB league front office. The owners and fans are the losers, unless you exploit the situation, like the powerhouse money teams, and can turn it into a benefit financially (team with super stars sells more tickets and merchandise ect...).

You can find flaws in the financial side of a cap, its just the pros far out weigh the negatives...and its like night and day regarding star player distribution and an even playing field on paper.

MLB, always so cocky and arrogant. Never do what makes perfect sense or what the other professional sports have adopted because it works...they always have to claim to know more, be better, be above the and so different...when in reality its just an entertainment business just like the rest of pro sports. So basic yet so over thought because money is involved.

just my opinion though...agree, don't agree; I dont give a **** either way. :D

jiggin
12-13-2010, 08:36 PM
They spend money because they want to win.

Also, where is this "level playing field" that you speak of?

said it in the other thread but it fits so nicely here. Yankees get whoever they want whenever they want, as long as it doesn't involve trading to get that player.

:speechless:

Kenny Powders
12-13-2010, 08:44 PM
said it in the other thread but it fits so nicely here. Yankees get whoever they want whenever they want, as long as it doesn't involve trading to get that player.

:speechless:

Cliff Lee may be the exception to the rule. The ironic thing is that the Yankees may need him more than any other free agent they have pursued lately.

Bo Sox Fan
12-13-2010, 08:44 PM
Until the Boston Red Sox exceed New York's annual payroll of $200 million (which will never happen) the Yankees will simply lead the way by themselves with the title of "Buying there rings."

That you can't argue, and if Yankee fans are sick of hearing it than they can thank there very own George Steinbrenner.

theslick1
12-13-2010, 08:54 PM
said it in the other thread but it fits so nicely here. Yankees get whoever they want whenever they want, as long as it doesn't involve trading to get that player.

:speechless:

Do just enjoy making this crap up? They traded multiple players to land Curtis Granderson. They traded a player to get Nick Swisher. They traded to get A-Rod. They traded multiple players to get Javy Vazquez. They traded multiple players for Xavier Nady and Damaso Marte.

NYY NYJ NYK
12-13-2010, 08:58 PM
Until the Boston Red Sox exceed New York's annual payroll of $200 million (which will never happen) the Yankees will simply lead the way by themselves with the title of "Buying there rings."

That you can't argue, and if Yankee fans are sick of hearing it than they can thank there very own George Steinbrenner.

What about the Red Sox?

They "buy" their rings ?

Towelie
12-13-2010, 09:45 PM
What do people want? The Yankee's spent the money, what the Sox should just hold on the cash instead of spending on making the team better? Sorry but I'm glad my team isn't just sitting tight hoping for year upon year our farm system works out.

bradyoverrated
12-13-2010, 09:49 PM
i guess technically, every team buys their rings.

the thing is, the yankees are generally the team making their moves in free agency, acquiring free agents from small market teams that cant afford to make an offer as large as the yankees.

yes, the sox just made A big free agent signing, but their other acquisition was by trade. they were able to make this trade because of strong talent evaluation, and the ability to extend gonzalez's contract.

technically, the sox only made one free agent signing. when the extend gonzalez, they will just be retaining their own talent.

there is a huge difference between resigning your own talent, and snagging talent from "the needy".

i dont think the yankees would be known for buying rings if they simply retained their top talent, as opposed to retaining the talent and constantly outbidding everyone for every major free agent.