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MFFL==FML
12-08-2010, 03:47 PM
People have mentioned LeBron James and Carmelo Anthony being the best pure scorers in the league, able to score from anywhere on the floor.

Unless I'm missing the definition of a ''pure scorer'' please inform me on why/how Dirk Nowitzki is NOT the best pure scorer (even shooter) in the NBA today? I can make a case why Carmelo Anthony and LeBron James aren't the best pure scorers.

Anthony - He is a horrible 3 pt shooter, shooting a career 30.9% and he takes over 19 shots to get 24.7 ppg, shooting a mediocre 45.8% from fg. He does take lots of free throws, averaging about 8 a game, making 80% of them, which is not too bad. He can post up some considering his size.

James - He is slightly better 3 pt shooter than Anthony shooting at about 33%, which still isn't exactly good considering he takes over 4 a game. James also can score from the ft line, averaging about 9 a game but only shooting 74%. He is a pretty good fg shooter, shooting at about 47% and scoring about 28 ppg. He hasn't developed a solid post game yet, I'm sure he will though.

Nowitzki - He doesn't take nearly as many shots as Anthony and James, shooting fewer than 17 shot attempts a game, but connecting on about 48% of them and scoring 23 ppg. He also shoots a higher 3 pt % than Anthony and James while making more of them. He doesn't dominate in the post, but he does have excellent posting up skills despite his lanky frame. He shoots about 88% from the ft line at about 6.5 ft attempts per game.

In conclusion: Nowitzki not only shoots better FG, 3-PT, and FT percentages, he doesn't need as many shots to get his points.

FG%
1.) Nowitzki
2.) James
3.) Anthony

FT%
1.) Nowitzki
2.) Anthony
3.) James

3-PT%
1.) Nowitzki
2.) James
3.) Anthony

PPG
1.) James
2.) Anthony
3.) Nowitzki

**Edit: I could have used 2010-2011 season stats to further make my case, but I thought it would be more unbiased and fair to use career averages.**

Baller1
12-08-2010, 03:49 PM
Durant is the best pure scorer in the game, followed by Melo.

Chacarron
12-08-2010, 03:50 PM
How is Lebron a pure scorer?

Stunner
12-08-2010, 03:51 PM
Melo

Minimal
12-08-2010, 03:52 PM
Best pure scorer in NBA right now is Durant, but he struggles this season, 2nd comes Nowitzki then James, Melo, Wade etc.

Baller1
12-08-2010, 03:55 PM
Best pure scorer in NBA right now is Durant, but he struggles this season, 2nd comes Nowitzki then James, Melo, Wade etc.

Yeah it's obvious Durant hasn't found his touch this season, but it's still got to be him. I've watched every Thunder game this season but one, and I can honestly say it's, for lack of a better word, weird. You see him struggling; you see him frustrated; you see his shots rimming in and out all game. Then you go to look at the box score and he's got 28 points. It's crazy.

Melo and Durant both haven't been themselves (scoring wise) this season, but they're still the purest scorers in the game.

BearDownChiTown
12-08-2010, 03:57 PM
Im a Bulls fan, but I love watching Dirk play. Great arguement you have going and fantastic job with getting all the correct stats to back your arguement. One of the best Ive seen on here. I tip my hat to you sir...

tredigs
12-08-2010, 03:57 PM
Nobody considers Lebron the best pure scorer in the game; though he is up there. The best are the ones that can best score from anywhere with ease (dribble-drive, get to the line, post, pull up, etc). Durant, Melo and Dirk are the best pure scorers in the game imo. Lebron, Wade and Kobe follow those guys, but that's not to say that they can't outscore them in any given year depending on their role.

Dirk's probably the most effortless scorer, truth be told. The game is so easy for him.

MFFL==FML
12-08-2010, 03:59 PM
Yeah it's obvious Durant hasn't found his touch this season, but it's still got to be him. I've watched every Thunder game this season but one, and I can honestly say it's, for lack of a better word, weird. You see him struggling; you see him frustrated; you see his shots rimming in and out all game. Then you go to look at the box score and he's got 28 points. It's crazy.

Melo and Durant both haven't been themselves (scoring wise) this season, but they're still the purest scorers in the game.

I think you can make a case for Durant last year, but that is a small sample size. I do, however, think Durant will eventually earn best "pure scorer title" in the NBA in the near future and he will do it for many years to come. I still think Nowitzki should have it based of years in the league and shooting stats along with where he can score (anywhere).

Da Knicks
12-08-2010, 03:59 PM
Pure scorer=Dirk and Melo

ShakeN'Bake
12-08-2010, 04:00 PM
How is Lebron a pure scorer?

Hes not.

D1JM
12-08-2010, 04:00 PM
i kinda agree with tredigs. Dirk makes it seem so easy

MFFL==FML
12-08-2010, 04:00 PM
Nobody considers Lebron the best pure scorer in the game; though he is up there. The best are the ones that can best score from anywhere with ease (dribble-drive, get to the line, post, pull up, etc). Durant, Melo and Dirk are the best pure scorers in the game imo. Lebron, Wade and Kobe follow those guys, but that's not to say that they can't outscore them in any given year depending on their role.

Dirk's probably the most effortless scorer, truth be told. The game is so easy for him.

I hear sports announcers say it all the time on ESPN and TNT. I think he is up there but he and Anthony shouldn't even be in the conversation in my opinion.

D1JM
12-08-2010, 04:07 PM
Dirk Ts% .625 Efg% .575 Per 24.4
Melo Ts% .524 Efg% .448 Per 20.4
Lebron Ts% .562 Efg% .487 Per 24.2
Durant Ts% .553 Efg% .454 Per 21.6

Yea, dirk is good at scoring and efficient. Its a no brainer

macc
12-08-2010, 04:10 PM
This is why stat geeks always have flawed arguments. Stats only show a small part of the actual impact of a player.

To answere the OP's question, Dirk is not the best scorer because theres one thing you can't do with Dirk and that is to give him the ball and say "Go score" Dirk is a great spot up shooter and he's great with his back to the basket, but you're not going to see Dirk break down a player and swoop to the basket with ease.

Thats why he's not the best pure scorer in the game. Whereas with Melo, no matter where you give him the ball, he's dangerous. You give it to him in the post and he'll score, you give it to him in the wing and he'll blow by his defender and score. That's my def of pure scorer. Anywhere on the court is his spot. Same with Durrant/Kobe.

drama1386
12-08-2010, 04:11 PM
Nobody considers Lebron the best pure scorer in the game; though he is up there. The best are the ones that can best score from anywhere with ease (dribble-drive, get to the line, post, pull up, etc). Durant, Melo and Dirk are the best pure scorers in the game imo. Lebron, Wade and Kobe follow those guys, but that's not to say that they can't outscore them in any given year depending on their role.

Dirk's probably the most effortless scorer, truth be told. The game is so easy for him.

you are so right.

D1JM
12-08-2010, 04:13 PM
This is why stat geeks always have flawed arguments. Stats only show a small part of the actual impact of a player.

To answere the OP's question, Dirk is not the best scorer because theres one thing you can't do with Dirk and that is to give him the ball and say "Go score" Dirk is a great spot up shooter and he's great with his back to the basket, but you're not going to see Dirk break down a player and swoop to the basket with ease.

Thats why he's not the best pure scorer in the game. Whereas with Melo, no matter where you give him the ball, he's dangerous. You give it to him in the post and he'll score, you give it to him in the wing and he'll blow by his defender and score. That's my def of pure scorer. Anywhere on the court is his spot. Same with Durrant/Kobe.

Melo forces too many shots.

Switch
12-08-2010, 04:15 PM
This is why stat geeks always have flawed arguments. Stats only show a small part of the actual impact of a player.

To answere the OP's question, Dirk is not the best scorer because theres one thing you can't do with Dirk and that is to give him the ball and say "Go score" Dirk is a great spot up shooter and he's great with his back to the basket, but you're not going to see Dirk break down a player and swoop to the basket with ease.

Thats why he's not the best pure scorer in the game. Whereas with Melo, no matter where you give him the ball, he's dangerous. You give it to him in the post and he'll score, you give it to him in the wing and he'll blow by his defender and score. That's my def of pure scorer. Anywhere on the court is his spot. Same with Durrant/Kobe.
You put it right on the spot :clap:

sp1derm00
12-08-2010, 04:17 PM
Well, Kobe's gotta be in the conversation because out of everyone in the league, he is able to score in just about every way imaginable.

Slashing: check
Post game: check
Midrange: check
3-point range: check
Ambidexterity: check... he's gotta be one of the only people in the NBA that can score from anywhere on the floor with both hands... if not the only player.

Also, Kobe's career 3 point % at 34% is not high, but considering he's taking so many contested, it's not bad.

Other players might be more explosive at this point in Kobe's career, but as far as scoring goes, Kobe's got all the bases covered.

asandhu23
12-08-2010, 04:21 PM
Monta Ellis and Stephen Curry?

tredigs
12-08-2010, 04:27 PM
This is why stat geeks always have flawed arguments. Stats only show a small part of the actual impact of a player.

To answere the OP's question, Dirk is not the best scorer because theres one thing you can't do with Dirk and that is to give him the ball and say "Go score" Dirk is a great spot up shooter and he's great with his back to the basket, but you're not going to see Dirk break down a player and swoop to the basket with ease.

Thats why he's not the best pure scorer in the game. Whereas with Melo, no matter where you give him the ball, he's dangerous. You give it to him in the post and he'll score, you give it to him in the wing and he'll blow by his defender and score. That's my def of pure scorer. Anywhere on the court is his spot. Same with Durrant/Kobe.

Yeah I feel ya. His slashing capabilities aren't that of a Kobe or 'Melo, but for a 7 foot white guy, even that is above par. That said, his mid-range post and quick pull up shot off of the high screen is as good as anyone in NBA history, and probably the toughest to guard of anyone in the league. Being that this is such an easy position for him to get to given his size/strength, his skill in those aspects propels him to the elite of the list.

So I do understand and mostly agree with you, but he's more well rounded then you're giving him credit for, he just has no need to use it given how unstoppable his mid-range post game/ pull up is.

D1JM
12-08-2010, 04:30 PM
Yeah I feel ya. His slashing capabilities aren't that of a Kobe or 'Melo, but for a 7 foot white guy, even that is above par. That said, his mid-range post and quick pull up shot off of the high screen is as good as anyone in NBA history, and probably the toughest to guard of anyone in the league. Being that this is such an easy position for him to get to given his size/strength, his skill in those aspects propels him to the elite of the list.

So I do understand and mostly agree with you, but he's more well rounded then you're giving him credit for, he just has no need to use it given how unstoppable his mid-range post game/ pull up is.

exactly. No one can stop his mid range shot. I wish he would take 25-30 shots a game

macc
12-08-2010, 04:30 PM
Yeah I feel ya. His slashing capabilities aren't that of a Kobe or 'Melo, but for a 7 foot white guy, even that is above par. That said, his mid-range post and quick pull up shot off of the high screen is as good as anyone in NBA history, and probably the toughest to guard of anyone in the league. Being that this is such an easy position for him to get to given his size/strength, his skill in those aspects propels him to the elite of the list.

So I do understand and mostly agree with you, but he's more well rounded then you're giving him credit for, he just has no need to use it given how unstoppable his mid-range post game/ pull up is.



No I hear you. Dirk is elite no doubt. He prob has the most difficult shot to defend in the NBA, being 7 ft tall w/ a high release, it's about impossible to stop. We were just debating the best pure scorer in the NBA. Dirk is def up there. Just not at the 1 spot. That belongs to Melo/Durrant/Kobe IMO.

macc
12-08-2010, 04:34 PM
It's crazy to me how rare it is to see a peremeter player with a good post game. I can only think of a handful of players who have a solid post up game. Or at least showcase it during the game.

Baller1
12-08-2010, 04:39 PM
I'll put it this way...

Best Pure Scorer is the player that can't really be stopped from anywhere on the court. They've got the range, the driving ability, the vertical ability to rise above anyone, and is basically "unstoppable".
Durant/Melo

Best Effortless Scorer is the player who seems to just be out at shooting practice during the game. They run through the motions and simply shoot the ball as if no one is even there. The game comes easy due to the combination of size and incredible shooting touch.
Dirk

Most Dangerous Scorer is simple. If they catch fire, you stand no chance and there's literally no stopping it. The only defense is himself, because no other player will be able to slow him down.
Kobe

It's all kind of the same thing, but that's the way I see the "pure scorer" concept in the NBA.

MFFL==FML
12-08-2010, 04:40 PM
This is why stat geeks always have flawed arguments. Stats only show a small part of the actual impact of a player.

To answere the OP's question, Dirk is not the best scorer because theres one thing you can't do with Dirk and that is to give him the ball and say "Go score" Dirk is a great spot up shooter and he's great with his back to the basket, but you're not going to see Dirk break down a player and swoop to the basket with ease.

Thats why he's not the best pure scorer in the game. Whereas with Melo, no matter where you give him the ball, he's dangerous. You give it to him in the post and he'll score, you give it to him in the wing and he'll blow by his defender and score. That's my def of pure scorer. Anywhere on the court is his spot. Same with Durrant/Kobe.

Have you ever seen Dirk play? If you have you would know that is exactly what they do to Dirk when the team is struggling offensively! Dirk can score ANYWHERE with great efficiency. I used stats and made an analysis on how they score. I didn't just use stats... you sir, are pretty ignorant. :facepalm:

xbrackattackx
12-08-2010, 04:43 PM
I'll put it this way...

Best Pure Scorer is the player that can't really be stopped from anywhere on the court. They've got the range, the driving ability, the vertical ability to rise above anyone, and is basically "unstoppable".
Durant/Melo

Best Effortless Scorer is the player who seems to just be out at shooting practice during the game. They run through the motions and simply shoot the ball as if no one is even there. The game comes easy due to the combination of size and incredible shooting touch.
Dirk

Most Dangerous Scorer is simple. If they catch fire, you stand no chance and there's literally no stopping it. The only defense is himself, because no other player will be able to slow him down.
Kobe

It's all kind of the same thing, but that's the way I see the "pure scorer" concept in the NBA.

x2 This is perfect. <3

barreleffact
12-08-2010, 04:45 PM
This is why stat geeks always have flawed arguments. Stats only show a small part of the actual impact of a player.

To answere the OP's question, Dirk is not the best scorer because theres one thing you can't do with Dirk and that is to give him the ball and say "Go score" Dirk is a great spot up shooter and he's great with his back to the basket, but you're not going to see Dirk break down a player and swoop to the basket with ease.

Thats why he's not the best pure scorer in the game. Whereas with Melo, no matter where you give him the ball, he's dangerous. You give it to him in the post and he'll score, you give it to him in the wing and he'll blow by his defender and score. That's my def of pure scorer. Anywhere on the court is his spot. Same with Durrant/Kobe.

this

macc
12-08-2010, 04:49 PM
Have you ever seen Dirk play? If you have you would know that is exactly what they do to Dirk when the team is struggling offensively! Dirk can score ANYWHERE with great efficiency. I used stats and made an analysis on how they score. I didn't just use stats... you sir, are pretty ignorant. :facepalm:



I'm ignorant for saying Carmelo and Durrant are better pure scorers than Dirk is? Ok then, guess I'm Ignorant. Show me videos where Dirk is sitting on top of the peremeter, crossing defenders and driving to the hoop......oh wait, there none.


Dirk is a great scorer, but he's not the BEST PURE SCORER in the league. Savy

footballer2369
12-08-2010, 04:56 PM
I'll put it this way...

Best Pure Scorer is the player that can't really be stopped from anywhere on the court. They've got the range, the driving ability, the vertical ability to rise above anyone, and is basically "unstoppable".
Durant/Melo

Best Effortless Scorer is the player who seems to just be out at shooting practice during the game. They run through the motions and simply shoot the ball as if no one is even there. The game comes easy due to the combination of size and incredible shooting touch.
Dirk

Most Dangerous Scorer is simple. If they catch fire, you stand no chance and there's literally no stopping it. The only defense is himself, because no other player will be able to slow him down.
Kobe

It's all kind of the same thing, but that's the way I see the "pure scorer" concept in the NBA.

Hi, I'm Lebron and I can contain Kobe, but when I put my head down nobody can stay in front of me. I am also better with the jumper, although it's not as pretty...

meloman1592
12-08-2010, 05:05 PM
Yes im a melo fan but im not biased...I think melo has the best offensive package when you consider quickness,strength,ballhandling and shooting. Lebron is strong and fast but cant shoot as well and is NOT quick when it comes to moves. Durant has a pure stroke from anywhere but isnt strong or that quick with his moves. I do think he's the second best. Dirk is just a great effortless shooter thats 7ft tall so its hard to contest and i dont see much else. Why wasnt kobe mentioned?

topdog
12-08-2010, 05:13 PM
Kobe.

He uses the whole floor from posting up in the paint to stickin' the tray.

YoungOne
12-08-2010, 05:18 PM
lebron can't be the best pure scorer, because he has no post-game...

bosscity
12-08-2010, 05:43 PM
Dirk a pure scorer? He is 7 ft tall with no post game. He also does not have the handles and quickness to get to the rim consistantly on drives.

While Dirk is an amazing shooter, he is nothing more than a 7 foot SG

NYKalltheway
12-08-2010, 06:22 PM
A pure scorer isn't someone who excels at nothing else but scoring? ie Dominique Wilkins averaging 25-35 PPG is the closest thing to a "pure scorer" I've seen the NBA have (some decent rebounding and semi-decent assist ratings but nothing extraordinaryl)
A pure scorer is someone who when does not score, is invisible in the game. When he does score, he's the face of the game. That's how I'd describe it.

Lebron? His passing & rebounding & defending says otherwise. Not a "pure" scorer, but a very effecive one.

I think prime Vince Carter and prime Tracy McGrady were pure scorers from more recent eras. Durant and Melo are not far, but Kobe is not a pure scorer despite scoring a lot. He can do a lot more at a high level than just score.

MFFL==FML
12-08-2010, 06:38 PM
I'm ignorant for saying Carmelo and Durrant are better pure scorers than Dirk is? Ok then, guess I'm Ignorant. Show me videos where Dirk is sitting on top of the peremeter, crossing defenders and driving to the hoop......oh wait, there none.


Dirk is a great scorer, but he's not the BEST PURE SCORER in the league. Savy

You're ignorant because you ignore the fact I mixed up stats with how and where the player scores yet paint a picture of how I am a "stats geek" because I used stats. It has nothing to do with Durant or Melo... as much as it does with you thinking Dirk doesn't do what they do, only better.

EaglePride615
12-08-2010, 06:38 PM
while i agree with and there is no argument for complete stats like that. in the playoffs ill take kobe every time.

MFFL==FML
12-08-2010, 06:42 PM
Dirk a pure scorer? He is 7 ft tall with no post game. He also does not have the handles and quickness to get to the rim consistantly on drives.

While Dirk is an amazing shooter, he is nothing more than a 7 foot SG

Something a typical person who doesn't watch Dirk play would say. He actually has a decent post game if you were to watch him play you would know this. For his size, he has one of the best handles and can take it coast to coast... he is also faster than a lot of 4/5 who guard him, for this reason many teams get away with having their 3 guard Dirk (he isn't a power-house).

BkOriginalOne
12-08-2010, 06:59 PM
Dirk scores, that doesn't make him a scorer.
That's like calling Sam Dalembert who blocks a lot of shots a great defender.

The Pure Scorers in the NBA
Kobe
Melo
Durant
Wade
Arenas (Old anyways)
Jamal Crawford (Mentality is that of a pure scorer)