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ewmania
12-01-2010, 07:40 AM
ok now alot of people say Rondo isnt the best point guard simply because he's a horrible shooter and is very poor from the free throw line

now two-time MVP winner Steve at one time was considered the best PG in the league, prolly about 3 years ago was considered the best PG in the league

but can someone tell me this... How did we consider nash the best PG in the league.. and not rondo

its true rondo shooting isnt that good.. but neither is nash defense

Nash was and still is a horrible defender.. but his offense is incredible...

and rondo is a bad offensive shooter but he's a incredible defender, but yet we dont say he's the best PG cause of it... doesnt make a lick of sense to me

we always preach defense but when a PG is a incredible defender we diss him for his offensive woahs, but yet we dont diss PG's for they defensive woahs

ShakeN'Bake
12-01-2010, 08:09 AM
Rondo is actually developing an average jump shot this year. Its no longer horrible.

tcav701
12-01-2010, 08:12 AM
The casual NBA fan soley judges player on the ability to score.

For example if a PG averages 28 a game on 30 shots, has 8 assists in 40 mins and plays below average defense, he is the best because his box score looks good on espn.

DitchDat
12-01-2010, 08:20 AM
The casual NBA fan soley judges player on the ability to score.

For example if a PG averages 28 a game on 30 shots, has 8 assists in 40 mins and plays below average defense, he is the best because his box score looks good on espn.

right on the money

LanceUpperCut
12-01-2010, 08:46 AM
Well I think Rondo's defence is overated cause his team the same as Nash defence is underated cause of his team and thier run and gun style., either way CP3 and D-Will are the top two PG in the league.

quade36
12-01-2010, 08:54 AM
Well I think Rondo's defence is overated cause his team the same as Nash defence is underated cause of his team and thier run and gun style., either way CP3 and D-Will are the top two PG in the league.

Completely agree with this statement. Rondo's defense is extremely overrated. Also CP3 and D-Will are >>>> then Rondo both offensively and defensively.

If anything D-Will is extremely underrated and doesn't get as much hype as players like Rondo.

More-Than-Most
12-01-2010, 09:25 AM
Completely agree with this statement. Rondo's defense is extremely overrated. Also CP3 and D-Will are >>>> then Rondo both offensively and defensively.

If anything D-Will is extremely underrated and doesn't get as much hype as players like Rondo.

I also believe Nash is still a better player than Rondo... Everyone assumed Nash would be worse off because of Amare leaving but he is still putting up 19-9-3 and he Doesn't have nearly as much talent around him as Rondo. Nash is not good defensively and nobody will dispute that but he is not as bad as everyone makes him out to be. I think Rondo is good but he is not on the same level as Cp3/Williams/Nash currently.

BeantownBill
12-01-2010, 09:40 AM
I also believe Nash is still a better player than Rondo... Everyone assumed Nash would be worse off because of Amare leaving but he is still putting up 19-9-3 and he Doesn't have nearly as much talent around him as Rondo. Nash is not good defensively and nobody will dispute that but he is not as bad as everyone makes him out to be. I think Rondo is good but he is not on the same level as Cp3/Williams/Nash currently.

I can see where the arguments made above for Paul and Williams make sense, but the moment you say Steve Nash is a better player than Rondo you lose all credibility. Amazing that someone can claim to be an NBA fan and post this kind of biased foolishness. For you, sir .. :facepalm:

samevans7
12-01-2010, 09:49 AM
Completely agree with this statement. Rondo's defense is extremely overrated. Also CP3 and D-Will are >>>> then Rondo both offensively and defensively.

If anything D-Will is extremely underrated and doesn't get as much hype as players like Rondo.

you are so wrong; its kinda funny. Rondo got NBA 1st Defensive Team for a reason, and not Williams.

You might be able to make a case for CP3 to be a better defender than Rondo (although its hard to make that point). But not Deron.

Rondo is the best defensive PG in the NBA, period. If anybody wants to try to disprove this with statistics, go ahead. you wont find any.

the-turk
12-01-2010, 09:58 AM
I think the most important reason is the competition. Nash didn't have much of a competition for the "Best PG" spot in his MVP years. Rondo is competing with the likes of D.Williams and C.Paul for that same spot.

McKinnon91
12-01-2010, 10:17 AM
Well I think Rondo's defence is overated cause his team the same as Nash defence is underated cause of his team and thier run and gun style., either way CP3 and D-Will are the top two PG in the league.


If you are going to bash a player about his DEFENSE...At least use the correct spelling and put a legible sentence together.

Right Now, Rondo is much Better then Steve Nash in almost every way except for 3-Point shooting.

And Although Rondo's average isn't high, he has the ability to score whenever he pleases. During Nash's MVP years, and playoff runs... He had Amare Stoudamire... And past that, there was Shawn Marion years, JRich, Grant Hill, No great shooters. A lot of the scoring outside the paint was left to him. Granted, Rondo does not have the best jump shot, he has 4-5 players that can take and make perimeter shots, and he only has to shoot when Ray Allen is Doubled or the Shot clock is running down.

xbrackattackx
12-01-2010, 10:51 AM
Nash,Rondo, and Fisher are my favorite PG's in the League..But I know D-will and Cp3 are both better then them.

mikantsass
12-01-2010, 11:01 AM
The casual NBA fan soley judges player on the ability to score.

For example if a PG averages 28 a game on 30 shots, has 8 assists in 40 mins and plays below average defense, he is the best because his box score looks good on espn.

Very well said.

Sly Guy
12-01-2010, 11:06 AM
because the PG position is the lynch pin of an offense. Just like the center is the pivotal point of a defense.

The point's role is to run the show on offense, to make sure guys are in the right spots because he's usually playing top of the key with the best view on the floor of all the players and able to see how the defense is reacting.

Just like the center on defense, is under or close to the basket, able to see the offensive setup, and should be calling out instructions to other defenders on screens and coverages etc.

So, for a PG, offense is more of a necessary skill set than defense.

sunnydayin'zona
12-01-2010, 11:34 AM
ok now alot of people say Rondo isnt the best point guard simply because he's a horrible shooter and is very poor from the free throw line

now two-time MVP winner Steve at one time was considered the best PG in the league, prolly about 3 years ago was considered the best PG in the league

but can someone tell me this... How did we consider nash the best PG in the league.. and not rondo

its true rondo shooting isnt that good.. but neither is nash defense

Nash was and still is a horrible defender.. but his offense is incredible...

and rondo is a bad offensive shooter but he's a incredible defender, but yet we dont say he's the best PG cause of it... doesnt make a lick of sense to me

we always preach defense but when a PG is a incredible defender we diss him for his offensive woahs, but yet we dont diss PG's for they defensive woahs

In theory, the MVP trophy is not meant to say who the best player is, but who is most valuable to their respective team, out of the top players in the league. While nash is horrible on defense (this notion is very overblow, he's not good but he's not horrible. he's just not physically able to match up well usually), his incredible offensive creating ability and leadership had a much greater value to the wins of the suns during his mvp years than rondo's defense. nash made the suns offense what it has been the past few years, he made the best offense of the decade. while rondo's defense is valuable, KG is still the defensive leader of the celtics. i dont think any defensive leader could be of more value to their team than nash's offense was to the suns during his mvp years.

I'm Seriously
12-01-2010, 11:43 AM
Right Now, Rondo is much Better then Steve Nash in almost every way except for 3-Point shooting.:facepalm:
There is absolutely no way you could say Rondo is better than Nash at scoring, shooting,(of any kind)or passing. Rondo's anly argument is defense, and rebounding. Which aren't as important as offense for the Pg position.

As for the OP, Peak Nash>>>>>>>>>>>Rondo.

ROY 2 MVP Braun
12-01-2010, 12:06 PM
The casual NBA fan soley judges player on the ability to score.

For example if a PG averages 28 a game on 30 shots, has 8 assists in 40 mins and plays below average defense, he is the best because his box score looks good on espn.


THIS! Which is kinda BS




you are so wrong; its kinda funny. Rondo got NBA 1st Defensive Team for a reason, and not Williams.

You might be able to make a case for CP3 to be a better defender than Rondo (although its hard to make that point). But not Deron.

Rondo is the best defensive PG in the NBA, period. If anybody wants to try to disprove this with statistics, go ahead. you wont find any.


Also Rondo is able to take chances at steals which help increase his stats though cause he knows if he misses the steal he has incredible defense to help him out so stats wise that does help him out alot, he's a very good defender dont get me wrong but definitly not a shut down defender


In theory, the MVP trophy is not meant to say who the best player is, but who is most valuable to their respective team, out of the top players in the league. While nash is horrible on defense (this notion is very overblow, he's not good but he's not horrible. he's just not physically able to match up well usually), his incredible offensive creating ability and leadership had a much greater value to the wins of the suns during his mvp years than rondo's defense. nash made the suns offense what it has been the past few years, he made the best offense of the decade. while rondo's defense is valuable, KG is still the defensive leader of the celtics. i dont think any defensive leader could be of more value to their team than nash's offense was to the suns during his mvp years.


THIS Nash ran that team and made every player better than what they were,
see barbosa, boris, stoudamire, and marion


:facepalm:
There is absolutely no way you could say Rondo is better than Nash at scoring, shooting,(of any kind)or passing. Rondo's anly argument is defense, and rebounding. Which aren't as important as offense for the Pg position.

As for the OP, Peak Nash>>>>>>>>>>>Rondo.

nash is an all time great who his best help was amar'e i mean he's good but not a future HOF'er where Rondo has 4 Future HOF'ers

BeantownBill
12-01-2010, 12:13 PM
:facepalm:
There is absolutely no way you could say Rondo is better than Nash at scoring, shooting,(of any kind)or passing. Rondo's anly argument is defense, and rebounding. Which aren't as important as offense for the Pg position.

As for the OP, Peak Nash>>>>>>>>>>>Rondo.

Who said anything about peak? We're talking about today, right now. I don't think anyone would question that Nash is a better shooter, but passing skills are debatable. Overall game, Rondo is the better player right now. He just is.

I'm Seriously
12-01-2010, 12:50 PM
Who said anything about peak? We're talking about today, right now. I don't think anyone would question that Nash is a better shooter, but passing skills are debatable. Overall game, Rondo is the better player right now. He just is.

The OP was asking how did people consider Nash the best Pg in the league, despite his defensive woes. And why don't people consider Rondo the best Pg in the league, despite his shooting woes. And to me there's not a comparison between Peak Nash and Rondo, so simply because there both incomplete players you can't put them on the same level.

Not to mention the fact that the competition is quite different.

For the sake of argument lets say there equal passers, Nash is the better shooter/scorer, while Rondo is the better defender/rebounder.

I simply value the offense that Nash gives me more than the defense/rebounding that Rondo gives me. So I take Nash

king4day
12-01-2010, 01:27 PM
In a game of one on one, Nash can hit tough shots that might be well defended. This would lead Rondo to have to defend the outside more which allows Nash to drive.
Nash can get away with letting Rondo shoot the jumpers and gamble on him missing. That would allow hiim to better prepare to defend a drive.

Let's just leave it as, Rondo is the superior defender, and Nash is the superior offensive player.
Anyone who says otherwise is not thinking straight.

Rentzias
12-01-2010, 05:06 PM
Off-topic, we went to a Nuggets-Suns game super early about five or six years ago and watched Steve Nash shoot 100 threes pre-game with the assistant basically in his chest with an arm raised straight up. He missed THREE shots. It was nasty.

From personal experience, having a definite three-point threat included in your PG opens up the floor incredibly. Rondo has two incredible off-ball players in Pierce and Ray Allen, and a second PG with KG up top. I think Rondo is a great quarterback on offense because of the way he manages those weapons, but Nash is able to create offense and get the team moving on his own. I would rather defend a Rondo than a Nash, and obviously rather be defended by a Nash than a Rondo.

Cool007
12-01-2010, 06:22 PM
In a game of one on one, Nash can hit tough shots that might be well defended. This would lead Rondo to have to defend the outside more which allows Nash to drive.
Nash can get away with letting Rondo shoot the jumpers and gamble on him missing. That would allow hiim to better prepare to defend a drive.

Let's just leave it as, Rondo is the superior defender, and Nash is the superior offensive player.
Anyone who says otherwise is not thinking straight.

This.

Bullsfan22
12-01-2010, 07:11 PM
Rondo is one of a kind and a tough player to evaluate.

It's pretty agreed upon that he's a good on the ball defender, elite passer, elite at playing the passing lanes.

He's also a below average/average shooter, horrible free throw shooter.

If you really take a honest look at his skill-set his weaknesses cancel out some of his strengths because of the position he plays.

It's a luxury to have a good rebounding pg NOT a necessity. When it comes to free throw shooting a point guard has to be at least respectable and 47% is far from it. While debatable I personally think it's a luxury to be really good in the passing lanes as a point guard, seeing that it all starts with the pg keeping the other pg in front of him taking less risks and playing solid on the ball defense (in my opinion is more important).

When It comes to nash lets be honest, he has everything you want in a pg as far as his offense. While he tries on defense he's just a BAD on the ball defender and becomes a liability especially against the current point guard talent in today's league.

This is a toss up in my opinion..

More-Than-Most
12-02-2010, 04:09 AM
I can see where the arguments made above for Paul and Williams make sense, but the moment you say Steve Nash is a better player than Rondo you lose all credibility. Amazing that someone can claim to be an NBA fan and post this kind of biased foolishness. For you, sir .. :facepalm:

You have yet to give me reasons why Rondo is better???? Rondo is force fed talent around him while Nash makes regular players into superstars... Rondo is a better defender but Nash and his ability to shoot and offensive game in general out shines Rondo on that end by a lot. It is far closer than you are making it because 1 excels better on one side of the ball above the other but I will rather have Nash and what he brings to the point guard position than Rondo even now. Of course if I had a choice between the 2 I would take Rondo because of age but if I want someone leading my team it would be Nash if age wasn't a factor.

Ovratd1up
12-02-2010, 08:39 PM
Steve Nash is still one of the top offensive players in the league, I mean anywhere from 10-12 to top 5.

I'm Seriously
12-02-2010, 09:46 PM
Steve Nash is still one of the top offensive players in the league, I mean anywhere from 10-12 to top 5.

Nash is arguably a top 10-12 overall player in the league, there's no doubt in my mind that he's a top 5 offensive player in the league.

What?
12-02-2010, 11:12 PM
you are so wrong; its kinda funny. Rondo got NBA 1st Defensive Team for a reason, and not Williams.

You might be able to make a case for CP3 to be a better defender than Rondo (although its hard to make that point). But not Deron.

Rondo is the best defensive PG in the NBA, period. If anybody wants to try to disprove this with statistics, go ahead. you wont find any.

Rondo is a very good defender but his defense is a little overrated. His drtg is about the average for that Boston team. People are right when they say that he takes alot of risks on defense and he gets bailed out by his big men down low.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2011.html

Boston has great defenders at every position which defiantly makes it easier for him to be able to be aggressive.

Bos_Sports4Life
12-02-2010, 11:26 PM
I love how everyone says rondo is only good bc of the talent around him, Yet last year when Bos made the playoffs, Those "Hall of Famers" were too old to compete for a title ect, now Rondo is "only good becaus he playes for hof'ers", cant have it both ways...but too answer the question, its about even imo, really depends what you need from your pg, Lets say nash/rondo gets traded straight up, it would HURT both teams imo

sunnydayin'zona
12-04-2010, 09:22 PM
nash is an all time great who his best help was amar'e i mean he's good but not a future HOF'er where Rondo has 4 Future HOF'ers

thanks for agreeing with me, but over nash's career he's had teams full of role players (like this year) and players at the top of the league to play with.

beginning his career, he was 3rd pg behind jason kidd and kevin johnson. so that helps to learn things, id say.

he's had dirk, amare, prime marion, joe johnson, shaq(didnt go very well), jrich, qrich, grant hill, 6thmanofyear barbosa, ect. so its not like he was playing with not talent around him.

rufo4100
12-04-2010, 10:03 PM
For 1 game I think I'd still want Nash...but Rondo is younger and the guy I'd much rather have for a season or playoff series.