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29$JerZ
12-01-2010, 01:48 AM
His play this season has been fantastic for NY and he and Amar'e have lead the Knicks to our 1st over .500 record in some time. I was shocked when he didn't resign with Charlotte and was happy that he chose NY but I wasn't expecting him to be playing so well for us.

Where would you rank him?
Figured I can get un bias opinions of him here.
Before this season I said Top 15. As of now I'd say Top 12

Duncan = Donkey
12-01-2010, 01:59 AM
I dont know, there is quite a list of PG's id take over him though.

Stunner
12-01-2010, 02:03 AM
He is playing like a top 12 PG IMO, but based off stats he would be top 10.

justinnum1
12-01-2010, 02:05 AM
Somewhere between 8-12

Giraffes Rule
12-01-2010, 02:08 AM
Point guards I would rank above Felton in no particular order:

Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Tony Parker
Steve Nash
Russell Westbrook
Derrick Rose
Rajon Rondo

So I guess 8th best point guard right now? I might have forgotten someone...

Trouble87
12-01-2010, 02:16 AM
top 15 for sure but theres so many great PG's in the league right now its hard to rank um

1 Paul
1 Willams
2 Nash
3 Rondo
4 Westbrook
5 Parker
6 Billups
7 Rose
8 Jennings
9 Wall
10 Kidd

Felton is somewhere after those 11 players in my mind

kingbrentg
12-01-2010, 02:16 AM
I'm really hesitant on making rankings with players playing under D'Antoni, but he's put up some nice numbers. Glad I got him in fantasy. But I'd probably put these guys over him..

Definitely over Felton:

Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Derrick Rose
Russell Westbrook
Rajon Rondo
Steve Nash
Tony Parker

Debatable imo:

Stephen Curry/Monta Ellis (whichever is considered the PG)
Devin Harris
John Wall (really early for him)

I'd put him about 8 or 9 I suppose.

DerekRE_3
12-01-2010, 02:18 AM
Felton really is the same player he was last year (He was good last year). He's just in a system where he looks better. Last year with the Bobcats his stats made him look not as good as he really was.

ChI_ShIzzLe
12-01-2010, 02:19 AM
top 15 for sure but theres so many great PG's in the league right now its hard to rank um

1 Paul
1 Willams
2 Nash
3 Rondo
4 Westbrook
5 Parker
6 Billups
7 Rose
8 Jennings
9 Wall
10 Kidd

Felton is somewhere after those 11 players in my mind

Jennings is overrated, I'd replace him with Felton on that list.

Hoopsadvocate
12-01-2010, 02:21 AM
Point guards I would rank above Felton in no particular order:

Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Tony Parker
Steve Nash
Russell Westbrook
Derrick Rose
Rajon Rondo

So I guess 8th best point guard right now? I might have forgotten someone...




while those are def better id add

Jameer nelson
Devin harris
John wall
stephen curry

and possibly because they have similar stats but are also younger and still getting better.

Brandon Jennings
Tyreke (if u count him as a pg)


SO id say 12-15

beasted86
12-01-2010, 02:24 AM
11-15

He's really surprised me with his shooting though.

I thought last season was a contract year fluke after shooting under 41% the previous 3 years.

meloman1592
12-01-2010, 02:29 AM
i'd say around # 8 as of right now

OA SLAY
12-01-2010, 02:33 AM
top 15 fo'sure has been for a while, so glad he's now in the limelight.

zambo4president
12-01-2010, 02:35 AM
He's Mike D'Antoni's PG of course he has big numbers. He's always been a decent PG, Id say, he's about 21st on my list.

Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Rajon Rondo
Steve Nash
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry
Chauncey Billups
Tony Parker
Brandon Jennings
John Wall
Darren Collison
Devin Harris
Andre Miller
Jameer Nelson
Aaron Brooks
Jrue Holliday
Mike Conley Jr
Mo Williams
Jason Kidd
Raymond Felton

masalex1205
12-01-2010, 02:35 AM
Felton really is the same player he was last year (He was good last year). He's just in a system where he looks better. Last year with the Bobcats his stats made him look not as good as he really was.

i agree w this for the most part, hes solid but it looks like hes really being overrated now thats hes in big market

Gideon
12-01-2010, 02:37 AM
Right now he is #8 on my PG list with Steph Curry/Monta Ellis next on the list. PG's before him are CP3, Deron Williams, Rajon Rondo, Steve Nash, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, and Tony Parker.

knicksfan42
12-01-2010, 02:38 AM
He's Mike D'Antoni's PG of course he has big numbers. He's always been a decent PG, Id say, he's about 21st on my list.

Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Rajon Rondo
Steve Nash
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry
Chauncey Billups
Tony Parker
Brandon Jennings
John Wall
Darren Collison
Devin Harris
Andre Miller
Jameer Nelson
Aaron Brooks
Jrue Holliday
Mike Conley Jr
Mo Williams
Jason Kidd
Raymond Felton

Horrible list no way he's 21st, not if you've been watching him play this season.

black1605
12-01-2010, 02:40 AM
As a hardcore homer, let me point out what DJ Augustin is doing in Charlotte. First of all, I do not think Augustin is better than Felton at this point, but Augustin leads the NBA in assist to turnover ratio at 5.17:1. The closest player to that mark is Jason Kidd at 4.18:1, with Felton down the line ranked 32nd at 2.27:1.

Anyways, just being the obligitory Bobcats homer...we suck, but f it.

zambo4president
12-01-2010, 02:42 AM
Horrible list no way he's 21st, not if you've been watching him play this season.

Id take any one of those 20 over Felton as my PG for this season. He's a solid Point Guard but he's not better than who Ive listed IMO.

knicksfan42
12-01-2010, 02:44 AM
Id take any one of those 20 over Felton as my PG for this season. He's a solid Point Guard but he's not better than who Ive listed IMO.

Alright the stats say otherwise, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Gideon
12-01-2010, 02:45 AM
Yeah no way anyone who has seen him play this season could have him out of the top 10. I don't want to hear it's cause of D'Antoni's system cause the guy just got here and is just learning a new system with new players on a new team. Could it possibly be that he is finally not being held back under Larry Brown and after only 5 years in the league is reaching his prime? Man Knicks haters are a joke. Anyone puttings youngins like Jennings, Collison, or Holiday or guys who are shooting points like a Mo Williams before Felton right now don't know basketball or your just hating. Whether some young guys could be better in the future is possible, but right now? Your buggin! Watch some games.

black1605
12-01-2010, 02:46 AM
He's Mike D'Antoni's PG of course he has big numbers. He's always been a decent PG, Id say, he's about 21st on my list.

Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Rajon Rondo
Steve Nash
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry
Chauncey Billups
Tony Parker
Brandon Jennings
John Wall
Darren Collison
Devin Harris
Andre Miller
Jameer Nelson
Aaron Brooks
Jrue Holliday
Mike Conley Jr
Mo Williams
Jason Kidd
Raymond Felton

Felton is better than the bold players, and I really don't like the Knicks.

zambo4president
12-01-2010, 02:55 AM
The NBA forum is getting out of hand. You realize he's played 19 games this season and your calling him a top 10 PG and an all-star? :laugh2: It's funny how quickly opinions change.

ChI_ShIzzLe
12-01-2010, 03:02 AM
Felton is better than the bold players, and I really don't like the Knicks.

Even though Wall is a rookie, Felton is nowhere near his class. Wall in a couple years will be up there with CP3, D-Will, Rose, Westbrook, etc while Felton will remain where he is.

black1605
12-01-2010, 03:04 AM
Even though Wall is a rookie, Felton is nowhere near his class. Wall in a couple years will be up there with CP3, D-Will, Rose, Westbrook, etc while Felton will remain where he is.

Maybe in a couple years, but right now Wall is not near the defender that Felton is.

29$JerZ
12-01-2010, 03:06 AM
Even though Wall is a rookie, Felton is nowhere near his class. Wall in a couple years will be up there with CP3, D-Will, Rose, Westbrook, etc while Felton will remain where he is.

We are talking about now, not in the future.
Everyone knows Wall gets picked before Felton based on potential/future more, however as of now Felton is a better PG than him.

ChI_ShIzzLe
12-01-2010, 03:09 AM
Maybe in a couple years, but right now Wall is not near the defender that Felton is.

I didn't know the Knicks played defense. But in reply to your post, you can't expect a rookie PG to come in the league and play great defense from the get go. It's something they get better at every season. Just because Felton might be a better defender, doesn't take away the fact that he has nowhere near the abilities of Wall offensively which pretty much overshadows anything on defense.

black1605
12-01-2010, 03:12 AM
I didn't know the Knicks played defense. But in reply to your post, you can't expect a rookie PG to come in the league and play great defense from the get go. It's something they get better at every season. Just because Felton might be a better defender, doesn't take away the fact that he has nowhere near the abilities of Wall offensively which pretty much overshadows anything on defense.

We are talking about right now, and right now, Felton is as good offensively, and much better defensively. Not to mention, Felton has a larger sample size so far this season at 19 games, while Wall has only played in 10. Long term? Give me Wall. Right now? Give me Felton.

Gideon
12-01-2010, 03:14 AM
The NBA forum is getting out of hand. You realize he's played 19 games this season and your calling him a top 10 PG and an all-star? :laugh2: It's funny how quickly opinions change.

The question was where is Felton ranked among PG's and RIGHT NOW he is a TOP 10 PG.

zambo4president
12-01-2010, 03:21 AM
You would be extremely foolish to take Raymond Felton over Wall, Jennings, Curry, Collison etc.

Trouble87
12-01-2010, 03:29 AM
Jennings is overrated, I'd replace him with Felton on that list.

I agree he's overrated and I would love to knock him but the kid has a lot of talent

better passer than he's given credit for and he can flat out score

abe_froman
12-01-2010, 03:34 AM
probably somewhere around 10th,in the 10-15 range

xILLN355
12-01-2010, 03:36 AM
i'd much rather take wall over felton if i this season was gonna be the very last lol

Raph12
12-01-2010, 03:42 AM
Nowhere near the top, Jameer destroyed him on both ends in the playoffs last year and has been playing better this year... Maybe top 20?

Baller1
12-01-2010, 04:26 AM
This year, top 10. Overall, probably closer to 15.

Evolution23
12-01-2010, 06:45 AM
He's Mike D'Antoni's PG of course he has big numbers. He's always been a decent PG, Id say, he's about 21st on my list.

Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Rajon Rondo
Steve Nash
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry
Chauncey Billups
Tony Parker
Brandon Jennings
John Wall
Darren Collison
Devin Harris
Andre Miller
Jameer Nelson
Aaron Brooks
Jrue Holliday
Mike Conley Jr
Mo Williams
Jason Kidd
Raymond Felton

So you would rather have Jrue Holliday or Mike Conley over Ray?

TheDiggler
12-01-2010, 07:03 AM
Hard to say and I'm sorry for all the NY-Fans, but ... I don't see him as Top10 PG (yet). And I'm not sure if he will ever join the Top10-PG's-List. Felton, is ... somewhere in between. He's not pass-first guy, nor is he a scorer, nor is he a real leader, nor is he a shooter. I really don't know where to sort him ...

HeaTxRipZz
12-01-2010, 07:24 AM
I didn't know the Knicks played defense. But in reply to your post, you can't expect a rookie PG to come in the league and play great defense from the get go. It's something they get better at every season. Just because Felton might be a better defender, doesn't take away the fact that he has nowhere near the abilities of Wall offensively which pretty much overshadows anything on defense.


lol you mean the same knicks that leads the league in blocked shots?

As far as Felton it's still way too early but if he continues his play id say top 10-12 pg for sure

kingbrentg
12-01-2010, 07:27 AM
lol you mean the same knicks that leads the league in blocked shots?

Blocking shots doesn't equal good defense. Common misconception.

The Knicks are giving up the 3rd most points in the league this year, and it's pretty known that D'Antoni is far from a defensive oriented coach.

HeaTxRipZz
12-01-2010, 07:31 AM
Blocking shots doesn't equal good defense. Common misconception.

The Knicks are giving up the 3rd most points in the league this year, and it's pretty known that D'Antoni is far from a defensive oriented coach.


And I'm not saying it means that they are playing GOOD defense bro but if blocking shots is a factor that plays into it I don't think it should be said that they play no defense at all. Boxing out, D rebounds and on the man defense play a part to that The Knicks have to work on but I really can't agree with the notion that they play absolutely no defense when leading in blocks.

Corey
12-01-2010, 07:32 AM
In the 12-15 range. The system makes him look a lot better than he is.

kingbrentg
12-01-2010, 07:51 AM
And I'm not saying it means that they are playing GOOD defense bro but if blocking shots is a factor that plays into it I don't think it should be said that they play no defense at all. Boxing out, D rebounds and on the man defense play a part to that The Knicks have to work on but I really can't agree with the notion that they play absolutely no defense when leading in blocks.

Well it's hard to tell who understands that sometimes in this forum.

I'm not saying they don't play any defense either, they're just not good at it. Every team plays some defense, some just put more focus and effort into it than others. And the Knicks are pretty far down on that list.

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 08:15 AM
He's not a scrub by any means... But you have to consider the pace that the Knicks play at. I don't see much difference in his game from last year except he now plays in a high offense system with an alleyoop machine in Amare. So of course his numbers will jump out at you. Last nights game he didn't start taking over and blowin the game open till Devin Harris went out, who by the way was out playing him before he got injured. I say around top 20-17 is a fair estimate. Just another Knick player that is somehow deserving if his own thread despite having played against mostly sub .500 teams

koreancabbage
12-01-2010, 08:53 AM
way overrated.

I personally wouldn't like him as my starting PG but he would make a great backup PG. You could put any PG in Mike D'Antoni's system and he'll do alright.

allday823
12-01-2010, 09:09 AM
He's Mike D'Antoni's PG of course he has big numbers. He's always been a decent PG, Id say, he's about 21st on my list.

Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Rajon Rondo
Steve Nash
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry
Chauncey Billups
Tony Parker
Brandon Jennings
John Wall
Darren Collison
Devin Harris
Andre Miller
Jameer Nelson
Aaron Brooks
Jrue Holliday
Mike Conley Jr
Mo Williams
Jason Kidd
Raymond Felton


Your such a hater you pretty much named every other starting pg over him how the hell is mike conley jr better or mo williams who averages HALF the assists felton does..
. Typical knick hater

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 09:12 AM
way overrated.

I personally wouldn't like him as my starting PG but he would make a great backup PG. You could put any PG in Mike D'Antoni's system and he'll do alright.

Exactly! That's the reason I dont want Ricky Rubio playing for him. He'll be the next big thing and well never hear the end of it

Jetsguy
12-01-2010, 09:17 AM
way overrated.

I personally wouldn't like him as my starting PG but he would make a great backup PG. You could put any PG in Mike D'Antoni's system and he'll do alright.

Ask Chris Duhon about that...

GMEN4EVER
12-01-2010, 09:48 AM
Felton's a top ten pg in the league. His stats sucked in Charlotte because of the system they ran down there. On stats he's probably 5th or 6th best in terms of ppg and assist, but he turns it over a bit much. Plus he's solid on defense overall. I know some will say well D'antoni's system inflates stats, but really that's overblown in terms of how much his system inflates stats. I mean come on, even if you adjust for pace you're adding maybe 5 to 10 percent more possessions than the norm tops, not that big of a deal.

SNYmets86
12-01-2010, 09:58 AM
I didn't know the Knicks played defense. But in reply to your post, you can't expect a rookie PG to come in the league and play great defense from the get go. It's something they get better at every season. Just because Felton might be a better defender, doesn't take away the fact that he has nowhere near the abilities of Wall offensively which pretty much overshadows anything on defense.


u didnt know we play defense :confused: if u didnt know

we are ranked 1st in blocks

10th in steals

Kenny
12-01-2010, 10:12 AM
Hard to say and I'm sorry for all the NY-Fans, but ... I don't see him as Top10 PG (yet). And I'm not sure if he will ever join the Top10-PG's-List. Felton, is ... somewhere in between. He's not pass-first guy, nor is he a scorer, nor is he a real leader, nor is he a shooter. I really don't know where to sort him ...

you lost me when you say he isn't a leader.

Draco
12-01-2010, 10:13 AM
u didnt know we play defense :confused: if u didnt know

we are ranked 1st in blocks

10th in steals

And 20th in defensive efficiency.

Da Knicks
12-01-2010, 10:26 AM
I didn't know the Knicks played defense. But in reply to your post, you can't expect a rookie PG to come in the league and play great defense from the get go. It's something they get better at every season. Just because Felton might be a better defender, doesn't take away the fact that he has nowhere near the abilities of Wall offensively which pretty much overshadows anything on defense.

Need to watch the knicks play, Raymond is very good on offense.

Double_R
12-01-2010, 10:26 AM
He's Mike D'Antoni's PG of course he has big numbers. He's always been a decent PG, Id say, he's about 21st on my list.

Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Rajon Rondo
Steve Nash
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry
Chauncey Billups
Tony Parker
Brandon Jennings
John Wall
Darren Collison
Devin Harris
Andre Miller
Jameer Nelson
Aaron Brooks
Jrue Holliday
Mike Conley Jr
Mo Williams
Jason Kidd
Raymond Felton

I'm with you... the D' factor makes him look better than he really is...

Da Knicks
12-01-2010, 10:32 AM
way overrated.

I personally wouldn't like him as my starting PG but he would make a great backup PG. You could put any PG in Mike D'Antoni's system and he'll do alright.

So what is it? Most posters said at the beginning that D'antoni was nothing without Nash and that Amare would suck this season. Last season the any point guard could do alright was proven wrong, Duhon and Douglas couldn't get it going. The Hate for the knicks is getting worse by the day.:(

Kenny
12-01-2010, 10:33 AM
So Dantoni is the guy whose shooting 47 percent from the field, over 36 from 3 and over 90 percent at the line. Good to know, and Wall is going to be a beast but his offensive game is not close to Feltons. Wall scores his points in tranistion and just being so explosive. Felton got the all around offense.

The same people saying Dantoni is making Felton are the same clowns who were saying Nash makes Stoudemire. How is that working out????

HOZ THE KNICK
12-01-2010, 11:00 AM
So Dantoni is the guy whose shooting 47 percent from the field, over 36 from 3 and over 90 percent at the line. Good to know, and Wall is going to be a beast but his offensive game is not close to Feltons. Wall scores his points in tranistion and just being so explosive. Felton got the all around offense.

The same people saying Dantoni is making Felton are the same clowns who were saying Nash makes Stoudemire. How is that working out????

+ 1........i can't say it no better amare and felton was great free agent pickups and we still have enough for a max after this season.....

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 11:05 AM
So Dantoni is the guy whose shooting 47 percent from the field, over 36 from 3 and over 90 percent at the line. Good to know, and Wall is going to be a beast but his offensive game is not close to Feltons. Wall scores his points in tranistion and just being so explosive. Felton got the all around offense.

The same people saying Dantoni is making Felton are the same clowns who were saying Nash makes Stoudemire. How is that working out????

Your delusional. Wall is better than Felton hands down. And to the guy who brought up the point about blocked shots please... Stop bringing that dumb ***** up. As everyone here will tell you blocked shots don't equate to good defense. Nor do steals. They are just stats. Looking at the big picture your defense sucks. You allowed a Nets team without Devin Harris to score 100. You allowed Brook Lopez who is by no means a dominant center to drop like 36. Nuff said

nycericanguy
12-01-2010, 11:09 AM
Hard to say and I'm sorry for all the NY-Fans, but ... I don't see him as Top10 PG (yet). And I'm not sure if he will ever join the Top10-PG's-List. Felton, is ... somewhere in between. He's not pass-first guy, nor is he a scorer, nor is he a real leader, nor is he a shooter. I really don't know where to sort him ...

Have you seen him play this season, you're right he's not a pass first PG, but not a scorer? not a leader? Not a shooter? :facepalm:

He's been a GREAT leader for us, an 18ppg scorer, and a great shooter for a PG.

Slimsim
12-01-2010, 11:10 AM
The NBA forum is getting out of hand. You realize he's played 19 games this season and your calling him a top 10 PG and an all-star? :laugh2: It's funny how quickly opinions change.

Same way how after 19 games Bulls are number 3 in the east ?

nycericanguy
12-01-2010, 11:11 AM
Your delusional. Wall is better than Felton hands down. And to the guy who brought up the point about blocked shots please... Stop bringing that dumb ***** up. As everyone here will tell you blocked shots don't equate to good defense. Nor do steals. They are just stats. Looking at the big picture your defense sucks. You allowed a Nets team without Devin Harris to score 100. You allowed Brook Lopez who is by no means a dominant center to drop like 36. Nuff said

we're talking about RIGHT NOW, obviously anyone would take Wall over Felton long term, but if you wanted to win a game RIGHT NOW this season you take Felton.

Slimsim
12-01-2010, 11:13 AM
In the 12-15 range. The system makes him look a lot better than he is.

So does that make Steve Nash better than what he is ? Look at Nash stats before he Played for Mike D almost comparable to felton last year.

HOZ THE KNICK
12-01-2010, 11:14 AM
ppl watch felton play before you hate........it's not good to run your mouth about something you know nothing about.lmao

Slimsim
12-01-2010, 11:21 AM
it's funny how being number 1 in blocks and 10th in steals means the Knicks play no Defense.

JasonJohnHorn
12-01-2010, 11:26 AM
Its early yet in the season, but yeah, I hear ya. I was expecting solid paly from felton, but not the level he is giving, not because i didnt think he was capable, but because since L. Brown got to Charlotte, he seemed like he was not progressing as i thought he would (in part because i believe Brown wasnt utilizing him).

D'Antonio's offence lets PGs who are fast and like to run get out in the open court and have soem fun. It helps.

as for where he ranks... top ten probably... but the PG position is deep in this league right now: D-Will, CP3, Rose, Westbrook, Rondo, Parker,

there are some young guys like Wall, Jennings, and Vets like Kidd, Nash, Billups and Baron Davis.
Plus there are guys like J. Nelson, D.Harris, Mo Williams, guys who I think its fair to say are as good (or perhaps better in some respects) as Felton.

Its hard to say how high he would rank, but he is certainly having a great season so far and deserves some love.

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 11:26 AM
we're talking about RIGHT NOW, obviously anyone would take Wall over Felton long term, but if you wanted to win a game RIGHT NOW this season you take Felton.

No if I had to win a game I still pick Wall. That kid is ridiculous. Rookie of the year if Griffin didn't play for such a crappy team where his stats are blown. Felton is NOT a top 15 pg. His stats are a mirage. Lots of point in an up tempo system. Lots of assists with mr alleyoop amare. Lots of steals against sorry teams like the Kings... Lots of turnovers... He has yet to play any high level comp. Your a .500 team that has played only maybe 2 playoff teams and lost. The rest of your wins came against bottom feeders like the NJ. So stop talkin like Felton and Amare are the hugest thing. :facepalm:

NYsFinest
12-01-2010, 11:27 AM
Your delusional. Wall is better than Felton hands down. And to the guy who brought up the point about blocked shots please... Stop bringing that dumb ***** up. As everyone here will tell you blocked shots don't equate to good defense. Nor do steals. They are just stats. Looking at the big picture your defense sucks. You allowed a Nets team without Devin Harris to score 100. You allowed Brook Lopez who is by no means a dominant center to drop like 36. Nuff said

Knicks and Nets have nearly an identical defensive efficiency... and Devin Harris played most of the game, the we lost because Devin got injured excuse is lame every team has injuries we didn't have our starting center and our future starting 2 guard.

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 11:31 AM
it's funny how being number 1 in blocks and 10th in steals means the Knicks play no Defense.

Again with that dumb s**t??? Who exactly have you played that makes your blocks so dominant??? The Kings? The Clippers? You have beat NOONE to boast about. Blocked shots and steals mean very little when comparing overall defense

Da Knicks
12-01-2010, 11:37 AM
No if I had to win a game I still pick Wall. That kid is ridiculous. Rookie of the year if Griffin didn't play for such a crappy team where his stats are blown. Felton is NOT a top 15 pg. His stats are a mirage. Lots of point in an up tempo system. Lots of assists with mr alleyoop amare. Lots of steals against sorry teams like the Kings... Lots of turnovers... He has yet to play any high level comp. Your a .500 team that has played only maybe 2 playoff teams and lost. The rest of your wins came against bottom feeders like the NJ. So stop talkin like Felton and Amare are the hugest thing. :facepalm:

Actually Landry Fields is in second place in that category boss, another guy that you can crap on since you are on a roll.:facepalm: http://www.nba.com/rookieladder/?ls=iref:nbahpt1

nycericanguy
12-01-2010, 11:37 AM
No if I had to win a game I still pick Wall. That kid is ridiculous. Rookie of the year if Griffin didn't play for such a crappy team where his stats are blown. Felton is NOT a top 15 pg. His stats are a mirage. Lots of point in an up tempo system. Lots of assists with mr alleyoop amare. Lots of steals against sorry teams like the Kings... Lots of turnovers... He has yet to play any high level comp. Your a .500 team that has played only maybe 2 playoff teams and lost. The rest of your wins came against bottom feeders like the NJ. So stop talkin like Felton and Amare are the hugest thing. :facepalm:

o yea I remember you now... you're the angry poster...lol.

Well actually we played 3 playoff teams and did win in CHI and we're 10-9

Felton is def a top 10pg this year/

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 11:38 AM
Knicks and Nets have nearly an identical defensive efficiency... and Devin Harris played most of the game, the we lost because Devin got injured excuse is lame every team has injuries we didn't have our starting center and our future starting 2 guard.

I didnt say we lost cuz of that injury. Even thou we probably did. My point was your defense is atrocious. The Nets suck! They have NO offense. They run their offense thru Devin. Without him they struggle to even get a shot up. He left the game early third quarter with like 6 points yet they still score 100 and the softest center in the league drops 36... Smh great defense

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 11:41 AM
Actually Landry Fields is in second place in that category boss, another guy that you can crap on since you are on a roll.:facepalm: www.nba.com-rookieladder

Naa him I like... So far... But again it's so hard to judge players who play for DAntoni... And I still think Wall is better than Fields

Weezy
12-01-2010, 11:42 AM
Look at what you have done Jerz.. now people will change their opinion about their own players to make the Knicks players look like trash. :laugh2:

Doesn't Steph Curry play in a high offense orientated system also? How come no one mentions him about his stats and all? Oh thats right.. he is on the Warriors not a Knick. Wall is the real deal don't get me wrong but half of the people on this thread just know 2nd grade reading. Right now is he better than Felton?

Way to go to have such a "un-bias" opinionated thread....

As for the Knicks playing defense.. yea we really don't play good defense that is something we must get better at as the season progresses. It is a growing team and I am not even a fan of Mike D which is the funny part

nycericanguy
12-01-2010, 11:43 AM
Naa him I like... So far... But again it's so hard to judge players who play for DAntoni... And I still think Wall is better than Fields

yea it was real hard to judge Nash. Anyone who uses the "system" against NY is just a hater, maybe if you want to be generous it adds .5 ppg to a players average or 1-2ppg for a PG, but its not that big a deal. There are plenty of teams that score more than NY or around the same.

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 11:44 AM
o yea I remember you now... you're the angry poster...lol.

Well actually we played 3 playoff teams and did win in CHI and we're 10-9

Felton is def a top 10pg this year/

Oh I'm sorry... Let me :facepalm: myself.. You played three playoff teams. Not two... Sorry... And you beat one? Niiiice! How did Boozer do?

Kenny
12-01-2010, 11:49 AM
Your delusional. Wall is better than Felton hands down. And to the guy who brought up the point about blocked shots please... Stop bringing that dumb ***** up. As everyone here will tell you blocked shots don't equate to good defense. Nor do steals. They are just stats. Looking at the big picture your defense sucks. You allowed a Nets team without Devin Harris to score 100. You allowed Brook Lopez who is by no means a dominant center to drop like 36. Nuff said

When did I say Wall isn't better?? Offensively Wall is not as good as Felton right now thats just fact. He doesn't shoot the ball nearly as well as Felton.

It's not even debatable at this point in there careers

Team*Chicago
12-01-2010, 11:50 AM
I don't know yet because the Knicks have been beating the crap out of the other losing teams with the easiest schedule in the NBA right now making Felton look good, but I would rank Felton in the top 15-20 PGs at this moment because I don't want to overrate him like the Knicks fans are doing because of yesterdays game against the Nets.

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 11:51 AM
yea it was real hard to judge Nash. Anyone who uses the "system" against NY is just a hater, maybe if you want to be generous it adds .5 ppg to a players average or 1-2ppg for a PG, but its not that big a deal. There are plenty of teams that score more than NY or around the same.

Stats don't tell the story with Nash. His stats were overblown by the system but the plays he made were unquestionable. He made the hugest plays and the smartest desisions with the ball. He was a true leader and did the best job at dictating pace when he played. Always in control. He hit cutch shots. Nash could play in ANY system... Except maybe Terry Porters Shaq first offense

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 11:56 AM
When did I say Wall isn't better?? Offensively Wall is not as good as Felton right now thats just fact. He doesn't shoot the ball nearly as well as Felton.

It's not even debatable at this point in there careers

But if you HAD to rank them... Only Knick fans would put him over Wall. Factoring in age difference and teams they play for i see Wall as a better PG. The Wizards have had a tough schedule unlike the Knicks. Wall is still figuring out how to play with Arenas. Some things can't be ignored

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 11:59 AM
I don't know yet because the Knicks have been beating the crap out of the other losing teams with the easiest schedule in the NBA right now making Felton look good, but I would rank Felton in the top 15-20 PGs at this moment because I don't want to overrate him like the Knicks fans are doing because of yesterdays game against the Nets.

Exactly... What guards DON'T dominate the Nets??? I can almost guarantee that Westbrook is gonna eat them alive! The Knicks have played prolly the easiest schedule in the league so forgive me for being a bit less than enthused about calling Felton a top 10 pg

Weezy
12-01-2010, 12:01 PM
But if you HAD to rank them... Only Knick fans would put him over Wall. Factoring in age difference and teams they play for i see Wall as a better PG. The Wizards have had a tough schedule unlike the Knicks. Wall is still figuring out how to play with Arenas. Some things can't be ignored

The schedule fine it is too early for this thread imo in general anyways but isnt Felton trying to figure out also to play with 11 freaken new players including Amare who has played almost his whole career with a future hall of famer? Isn't that something that can't be ignored either???

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 12:13 PM
The schedule fine it is too early for this thread imo in general anyways but isnt Felton trying to figure out also to play with 11 freaken new players including Amare who has played almost his whole career with a future hall of famer? Isn't that something that can't be ignored either???

I'm not ignoring that at all. Which is another reason I feel Felton is overrated. Truthfully, how hard is is to rack up assists with Amare as center against the crap of the NBA??? Throw it up and let him go get it. Pick and roll, bounce pass to an Amare jam on the softest big men you can find. So going back to the ORIGINAL topic... Felton is NOT a top 10 pg. The league is too loaded at the position, the Knicks have played an incredibly easy schedule, and it's way too early to tell regardless

Weezy
12-01-2010, 12:21 PM
I'm not ignoring that at all. Which is another reason I feel Felton is overrated. Truthfully, how hard is is to rack up assists with Amare as center against the crap of the NBA??? Throw it up and let him go get it. Pick and roll, bounce pass to an Amare jam on the softest big men you can find. So going back to the ORIGINAL topic... Felton is NOT a top 10 pg. The league is too loaded at the position, the Knicks have played an incredibly easy schedule, and it's way too early to tell regardless

Overrated? What? How? Has ESPN ever mentioned about this guy? This is the first thread about Raymond and he is overrated? Why? Because he is on the Knicks? Under MD? In a big market? I am sooo sick of reading those excuses. If he was on any other team... people would not say overrated.

People were saying Amare will not do well in NY without Steve Nash.. where are those people now? Do I see them in site? Nope probably too scared. What a shame really...

He is not a top 10 PG. All what Jerz asked in the beginning was where he stands. You don't believe he is top 10 that's fine me neither... but dont base that on being bias. He asked for poster to be non-bias. Half these posters are going bias because he is on the freaken Knicks. Sick of it really.

Imo.. he is around top 12-13 and this is coming from a Knick fan and I think that is realistic.

Weezy
12-01-2010, 12:23 PM
I don't know yet because the Knicks have been beating the crap out of the other losing teams with the easiest schedule in the NBA right now making Felton look good, but I would rank Felton in the top 15-20 PGs at this moment because I don't want to overrate him like the Knicks fans are doing because of yesterdays game against the Nets.

No one said Knicks are finished. They have A LOT to prove. Our December-Jan schedule is brutal. Right now we need to win these games.. don't you agree? If your Bulls had our schedule you would say the same damn thing. What matters to me and for most Knicks fans (who will mostly agree) is that we are improving. True NY fans will appreciate that any day of the week.

HOZ THE KNICK
12-01-2010, 12:27 PM
hate on fellas.just remember my sig...

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 12:35 PM
Overrated? What? How? Has ESPN ever mentioned about this guy? This is the first thread about Raymond and he is overrated? Why? Because he is on the Knicks? Under MD? In a big market? I am sooo sick of reading those excuses. If he was on any other team... people would not say overrated.

People were saying Amare will not do well in NY without Steve Nash.. where are those people now? Do I see them in site? Nope probably too scared. What a shame really...

He is not a top 10 PG. All what Jerz asked in the beginning was where he stands. You don't believe he is top 10 that's fine me neither... but dont base that on being bias. He asked for poster to be non-bias. Half these posters are going bias because he is on the freaken Knicks. Sick of it really.

Imo.. he is around top 12-13 and this is coming from a Knick fan and I think that is realistic.

If he played for another team then his stats would not be this good, and I mean overrated as in stats not as in media coverage or threads made. I will admit to a little bias being a Nets fan but believe me when I tell you I'm not bias on this Felton debate. He has yet to prove anything against good teams. I will also admit to being one of the ones that said Amare-Nash= Disaster... And Amare is proving me wrong. The equation is more like Amare-7sec or less-decent pg= Disaster X the number of sub .500 teams he plays. Now that's the equation! :p

Draco
12-01-2010, 12:36 PM
Sheridan probably has him in his top 5 lol

Hustla23
12-01-2010, 12:37 PM
Felton really is the same player he was last year (He was good last year). He's just in a system where he looks better. Last year with the Bobcats his stats made him look not as good as he really was.

You would be extremely foolish to take Raymond Felton over Wall, Jennings, Curry, Collison etc.


In the 12-15 range. The system makes him look a lot better than he is.


Except, not really. Felton's good offensive rating and offensive win shares total speaks for his efficiency, which is an objective measure, and leaves out the effects of any sort of "system."

By the stats, he's a top 10 PG, easily.

HOZ THE KNICK
12-01-2010, 12:38 PM
If he played for another team then his stats would not be this good, and I mean overrated as in stats not as in media coverage or threads made. I will admit to a little bias being a Nets fan but believe me when I tell you I'm not bias on this Felton debate. He has yet to prove anything against good teams. I will also admit to being one of the ones that said Amare-Nash= Disaster... And Amare is proving me wrong. The equation is more like Amare-7sec or less-decent pg= Disaster X the number of sub .500 teams he plays. Now that's the equation! :p

man you lost just give it up........and when the ny nets move to brooklyn you really going be drinking haterade because ny is knicks country

Hustla23
12-01-2010, 12:38 PM
Ask Chris Duhon about that...
Chris Duhon sucked majorly.... how is this any sort of point....

If you are talented, you will do well in any system. If you suck like Duhon, you won't.

Weezy
12-01-2010, 12:43 PM
If he played for another team then his stats would not be this good, and I mean overrated as in stats not as in media coverage or threads made. I will admit to a little bias being a Nets fan but believe me when I tell you I'm not bias on this Felton debate. He has yet to prove anything against good teams. I will also admit to being one of the ones that said Amare-Nash= Disaster... And Amare is proving me wrong. The equation is more like Amare-7sec or less-decent pg= Disaster X the number of sub .500 teams he plays. Now that's the equation! :p

He is playing the way he likes like he was in UNC. So UNC's system is overrated too then I assume? If he was playing his game... under a different coach... his points and assists would be a little lower. But I doubt his steals, FG% would be.. would it? Steph Curry plays in a high octane offense and avg more points than Felton... why not bring him also while you are at it?

I am not going against you alone man.. I understand you are a Nets fan.. this is for everyone on this thread and for everyone that hated on our Amare signing and saying he is nothing without Nash. I hope Amare just keeps going and continues to lead this team.

Slimsim
12-01-2010, 12:47 PM
Again with that dumb s**t??? Who exactly have you played that makes your blocks so dominant??? The Kings? The Clippers? You have beat NOONE to boast about. Blocked shots and steals mean very little when comparing overall defense

We beat a good defense team in Charlotte Because of Blocks. The show time lakers weren't know for their defense but when they needed stops they got 1 And if the Knicks Can get stops when it counts then what's the problem

Stunner
12-01-2010, 12:51 PM
we're talking about RIGHT NOW, obviously anyone would take Wall over Felton long term, but if you wanted to win a game RIGHT NOW this season you take Felton.

Wall is having lil better year than Felton with less talent even though he cant shoot.

Slimsim
12-01-2010, 12:52 PM
I don't know yet because the Knicks have been beating the crap out of the other losing teams with the easiest schedule in the NBA right now making Felton look good, but I would rank Felton in the top 15-20 PGs at this moment because I don't want to overrate him like the Knicks fans are doing because of yesterdays game against the Nets.

We are beating teams we are suppose to. Why are people pulling the Crappy team excuses Wasn't the Knicks a crappy team before the season start ? Were not contenders we won't beat the lakers heats and orlando on a nightly base but we are beating the teams we need to beat to get into the playoffs and.

Stunner
12-01-2010, 12:52 PM
Wall

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/john_wall/

Felton

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/raymond_felton/

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 12:56 PM
He is playing the way he likes like he was in UNC. So UNC's system is overrated too then I assume? If he was playing his game... under a different coach... his points and assists would be a little lower. But I doubt his steals, FG% would be.. would it? Steph Curry plays in a high octane offense and avg more points than Felton... why not bring him also while you are at it?

I am not going against you alone man.. I understand you are a Nets fan.. this is for everyone on this thread and for everyone that hated on our Amare signing and saying he is nothing without Nash. I hope Amare just keeps going and continues to lead this team.

Steph Curry is overrated too. Sorry but it's the truth. By the way I hope Amare keeps it up as well. I was having fun last nite watchin us go at it till Harris went down. Hope we develop a little metropolitan rilvary:clap:

Sixerlover
12-01-2010, 12:56 PM
hate on fellas.just remember my sig...

What am I remembering? Are they going to win the title or something? ECF?

Slimsim
12-01-2010, 12:58 PM
What am I remembering? Are they going to win the title or something? ECF?

That's our goal hopefully in 2 years

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 01:01 PM
man you lost just give it up........and when the ny nets move to brooklyn you really going be drinking haterade because ny is knicks country

Lost??? Lost what exactly? Felton is NOT a top 10 pg. He's definitely got top 10 stats but he's not a top 10 pg. Top 17-20. I haven't lost anything cuz there's nothing to win. This thread is premature and your team hasn't beaten anyone worth boasting about so he's just a pg with nice stats. Anyone who looks at purely stats is no basketball fan

Draco
12-01-2010, 01:03 PM
That's our goal hopefully in 2 years

And that time frame depends on whether Melo comes to the Knicks?

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 01:07 PM
We are beating teams we are suppose to. Why are people pulling the Crappy team excuses Wasn't the Knicks a crappy team before the season start ? Were not contenders we won't beat the lakers heats and orlando on a nightly base but we are beating the teams we need to beat to get into the playoffs and.

Yes. Your playing ONLY teams your supposed to beat. You've only played three playoff teams. You beat the Bulls without Boozer. Thats it!

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 01:10 PM
We beat a good defense team in Charlotte Because of Blocks. The show time lakers weren't know for their defense but when they needed stops they got 1 And if the Knicks Can get stops when it counts then what's the problem

No you beat a struggling offensive team in the Bobcats because of blocked shots that were probably on forced shots cuz the cats tend to do that. Ask Brook Lopez, who was beastin on them

tbone2171
12-01-2010, 01:18 PM
That's our goal hopefully in 2 years

Good luck

TheDiggler
12-01-2010, 01:26 PM
Have you seen him play this season, you're right he's not a pass first PG, but not a scorer? not a leader? Not a shooter? :facepalm:

He's been a GREAT leader for us, an 18ppg scorer, and a great shooter for a PG.

Thread asked where to rank Felton. And you don't wanto to say to me you rank him because of like 15 games with the Knicks. All those Knicks fans here forget his time in Charlotte ... he lives from Mike D's system now. If he would be on the Bobcats he would've lost his spot to DJ Augustin !

Slimsim
12-01-2010, 01:44 PM
Yes. Your playing ONLY teams your supposed to beat. You've only played three playoff teams. You beat the Bulls without Boozer. Thats it!

So ****ing what ? I rather beat the bad teams than lose to them. instead of playing a good team that would most likely beat us.

Slimsim
12-01-2010, 01:49 PM
No you beat a struggling offensive team in the Bobcats because of blocked shots that were probably on forced shots cuz the cats tend to do that. Ask Brook Lopez, who was beastin on them

So now it's the Bobcats fault for losing instead of the Knicks just playing better down the stretch ?

blahblahyoutoo
12-01-2010, 01:51 PM
Yeah no way anyone who has seen him play this season could have him out of the top 10. I don't want to hear it's cause of D'Antoni's system cause the guy just got here and is just learning a new system with new players on a new team. Could it possibly be that he is finally not being held back under Larry Brown and after only 5 years in the league is reaching his prime? Man Knicks haters are a joke. Anyone puttings youngins like Jennings, Collison, or Holiday or guys who are shooting points like a Mo Williams before Felton right now don't know basketball or your just hating. Whether some young guys could be better in the future is possible, but right now? Your buggin! Watch some games.

exactly.
if it were d'antoni's system inflating PG stats, tell me why duhon was so great in it.

PlezPlayDKnicks
12-01-2010, 01:51 PM
Thread asked where to rank Felton. And you don't wanto to say to me you rank him because of like 15 games with the Knicks. All those Knicks fans here forget his time in Charlotte ... he lives from Mike D's system now. If he would be on the Bobcats he would've lost his spot to DJ Augustin !

I guess u missed the part where Larry Brown said he misses Felton and the toughness he brings. He helped lead that team to the playoffs. Augustine Ok

Slimsim
12-01-2010, 01:53 PM
Yes. Your playing ONLY teams your supposed to beat. You've only played three playoff teams. You beat the Bulls without Boozer. Thats it!

i don't understand Wouldn't it be worse to lose to Non playoff teams if the Knicks are fighting to get in to the playoffs ? i don't understand your logic So it's not ok to beat bad teams only the other top 16 teams that made the playoffs ?

omdigga
12-01-2010, 01:54 PM
i would say raymond is 15-20 right now.. hopefully by the end of this season he will be 10-15...

blahblahyoutoo
12-01-2010, 01:54 PM
way overrated.

I personally wouldn't like him as my starting PG but he would make a great backup PG. You could put any PG in Mike D'Antoni's system and he'll do alright.

chris. duhon.

nycericanguy
12-01-2010, 02:01 PM
i would say raymond is 15-20 right now.. hopefully by the end of this season he will be 10-15...

name me 14-19 PG's that have been better this season? I for one was not a huge fan of Felton but he has won me over with his toughness & leadership and shooting. I didn't realize he was such a good shooter.

Right now I have to say in no particular order...

CP3
D-Wil
Rondo
Rose
Nash
Westbrook
Parker

Those guys have been better, Felton is arguably 8th, although you can argue with guys like Jennings, Wall, Kidd & MAYBE Harris if you really want to nitpick. So at worst he's around 12th, but NO WAY he's 19th.

Giaps
12-01-2010, 02:20 PM
Are there people saying Duhon was good in NY? The guy was good for 1/2 a season out of the 2 years. He was AWFUL here.

Shamar81
12-01-2010, 02:41 PM
He's not a scrub by any means... But you have to consider the pace that the Knicks play at. I don't see much difference in his game from last year except he now plays in a high offense system with an alleyoop machine in Amare. So of course his numbers will jump out at you. Last nights game he didn't start taking over and blowin the game open till Devin Harris went out, who by the way was out playing him before he got injured. I say around top 20-17 is a fair estimate. Just another Knick player that is somehow deserving if his own thread despite having played against mostly sub .500 teams

Felton had more points and assits then him at halftime. It was Brook Lopez who killed the knicks not Harris.

Shamar81
12-01-2010, 02:44 PM
Steph Curry is overrated too. Sorry but it's the truth. By the way I hope Amare keeps it up as well. I was having fun last nite watchin us go at it till Harris went down. Hope we develop a little metropolitan rilvary:clap:

I agree with you on that!

knicksfan42
12-01-2010, 03:04 PM
i don't understand Wouldn't it be worse to lose to Non playoff teams if the Knicks are fighting to get in to the playoffs ? i don't understand your logic So it's not ok to beat bad teams only the other top 16 teams that made the playoffs ?

Slim there's no point in arguing with him, he loves trolling Knicks fans. We could have Jesus playing for us and he'd be talking about how Mike D'antoni's system skews his stats.

xxplayerxx23
12-01-2010, 03:22 PM
way overrated.

I personally wouldn't like him as my starting PG but he would make a great backup PG. You could put any PG in Mike D'Antoni's system and he'll do alright.

Tell that to chris duhon. ANd are you kidding a backup. he would start in a lot of places.

Furymaker
12-01-2010, 04:21 PM
Deron
Cp3
Rose
Westbrook
Rondo
Nash
Parker
Curry/Wall/Jennings/Harris/Kidd - he's not top 10 , 11-13 maybe

Moochman4life
12-01-2010, 04:28 PM
exactly.
if it were d'antoni's system inflating PG stats, tell me why duhon was so great in it.

He wasn't, he was garbage.

Matter of fact, this gave me all the perspective I needed on Duhon: every game I watched (including in person), if you paid attention to the huddle during a timeout and he wasn't in the game, Duhon was always off to the side wandering around, talking to other people, the fans, or just gazing up into the stands. I don't care if you're not in the game, but be a part of the team...like a team mate is supposed to.

Moochman4life
12-01-2010, 04:31 PM
Tell that to chris duhon. ANd are you kidding a backup. he would start in a lot of places.

See my above post. Wouldn't want the guy on my squad. He always seemed nonchalant, like he didn't care. Who knows, it could've been the fact that he was on borrowed time. Still, I'll take Felton's heart, grittiness and fortitude any day.

Double_R
12-01-2010, 04:50 PM
name me 14-19 PG's that have been better this season? I for one was not a huge fan of Felton but he has won me over with his toughness & leadership and shooting. I didn't realize he was such a good shooter.

Right now I have to say in no particular order...

CP3
D-Wil
Rondo
Rose
Nash
Westbrook
Parker

Those guys have been better, Felton is arguably 8th, although you can argue with guys like Jennings, Wall, Kidd & MAYBE Harris if you really want to nitpick. So at worst he's around 12th, but NO WAY he's 19th.

Nelson
Augustin
Curry
Brooks
Wall
Kidd
Harris
Miller
Holiday
Jennings

He's more like 18th...

There are more I would take before him though... Collison, Conley, etc.

NYsFinest
12-01-2010, 04:52 PM
You know what I love, when Knicks players play well they get their numbers because of the system. Yet when they give up a lot of points, people say they can't play defense. You can't win with these guys. You can't have it both ways, sorry...

Moochman4life
12-01-2010, 04:56 PM
Nelson
Augustin
Curry
Brooks
Wall
Kidd
Harris
Miller
Holiday
Jennings

He's more like 18th...

There are more I would take before him though... Collison, Conley, etc.

You can't be serious.

But I get the feeling you are lol.

NYsFinest
12-01-2010, 04:57 PM
Nelson
Augustin
Curry
Brooks
Wall
Kidd
Harris
Miller
Holiday
Jennings

He's more like 18th...

Among ALL PGs:

7th in points
9th in assists
8th in rebounds
11th in shooting %
1st in free throw %
7th in steals
4th in double doubles
9th in PER
4th in VA
4th in EWA
9th in TS %

but 18th best??? :clap:

nycericanguy
12-01-2010, 05:04 PM
Nelson
Augustin
Curry
Brooks
Wall
Kidd
Harris
Miller
Holiday
Jennings

He's more like 18th...

There are more I would take before him though... Collison, Conley, etc.

yea...no...

You're either kidding or you don't watch basketball. Maybe you should try following another sport? ;)

Moochman4life
12-01-2010, 05:05 PM
Among ALL PGs:

7th in points
9th in assists
8th in rebounds
11th in shooting %
1st in free throw %
7th in steals
4th in double doubles
9th in PER
4th in VA
4th in EWA
9th in TS %

but 18th best??? :clap:

Thank you! :clap:

nycericanguy
12-01-2010, 05:06 PM
Among ALL PGs:

7th in points
9th in assists
8th in rebounds
11th in shooting %
1st in free throw %
7th in steals
4th in double doubles
9th in PER
4th in VA
4th in EWA
9th in TS %

but 18th best??? :clap:

Good post... NY is 10-9, yet people hate on them as if they were 19-0 and world champs.

mjqusoldier
12-01-2010, 05:12 PM
Cp
Deron
Nash
Rose
Rondo
Westrbook
Felton
Curry
Brooks
Billups
Kidd

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 05:17 PM
So ****ing what ? I rather beat the bad teams than lose to them. instead of playing a good team that would most likely beat us.


So now it's the Bobcats fault for losing instead of the Knicks just playing better down the stretch ?

The point is you wanna point to blocked shots and steals but your playing the crap of the NBA. Let's see you play your "good defense" that you use blocked shots and steals to measure on the NBAs elite. It's pretty easy for an athletic guy to block shots on a sorry offensive team that forces up shots. Brook Lopez had like 5 blocks on them and he can't even jump. Don't get mad cuz someone prematurely made a thread asking where to rank RF when you only played like 15 games and only 3 were good teams. AGAIN back on topic. Based on stats yea you can say RF is great but if your lookin at only stats your just nitpickin to overrate your players. Common homer syndrome. RAYMOND FELTON is NOT a top 10 pg. Maybe top 15. Maybe. Probably between 17-20

king shra
12-01-2010, 05:20 PM
NY fans overrated their players sooooo frickin much lol

fadedmario
12-01-2010, 05:22 PM
behind Stuckey

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 05:23 PM
So ****ing what ? I rather beat the bad teams than lose to them. instead of playing a good team that would most likely beat us.

Your right. I agree there. BUT AGAIN check the topic of the thread. Where does Felton rank? Based on your easy schedule I'd say let's wait before we call him an elite pg. There's too much comp at the pg position to just let Felton get a buy into the top 15 range. Wouldnt be fair to the Devin Harrises and Darren Collisons whose teams have played brutal schedules. Let's wait till the 40gm mark where everyone has played tough opponents to measure.

WAYNEBO
12-01-2010, 05:26 PM
It's too soon to tell, but at this pace, he's a Top 10 PG, considering PPG, asssits and steals. Not to mention he's VERY durable and still young. Everybody wants to hate the system, but the player still has to put up the STATS, the system doesn't do it for him.

Granted all the Super Friends talk is fun for the NYKers -- CP3 would be an upgrade and an enabler for others, but I say stay with what we got (RayRay/TD) and get a legit big (not that russian teabaggie), a FA-acquired Melo and sign a rejected (also FA) Jamal Crawford for the 2spot and we take down the league. Count my words on it!!

NYsFinest
12-01-2010, 05:26 PM
The point is you wanna point to blocked shots and steals but your playing the crap of the NBA. Let's see you play your "good defense" that you use blocked shots and steals to measure on the NBAs elite. It's pretty easy for an athletic guy to block shots on a sorry offensive team that forces up shots. Brook Lopez had like 5 blocks on them and he can't even jump. Don't get mad cuz someone prematurely made a thread asking where to rank RF when you only played like 15 games and only 3 were good teams. AGAIN back on topic. Based on stats yea you can say RF is great but if your lookin at only stats your just nitpickin to overrate your players. Common homer syndrome. RAYMOND FELTON is NOT a top 10 pg. Maybe top 15. Maybe. Probably between 17-20

They have had 7 back-to-backs so far and 11 road games. The "sorry teams" that they beat are the ones that were supposed to be their competition for the 7th and 8th seeds. Since Tor, NJ, Det, Philly, Charlotte, Washington, Milwuakee are all apparently not in the same class as the Knicks... I guess its smooth sailing to the playoffs.

nycericanguy
12-01-2010, 05:37 PM
Good teams beat bad teams and win on the road... NY is doing both, so stop hating, they're a good team.

NYsFinest
12-01-2010, 05:43 PM
OMFG!!! Can you read! Dam! This isn't about the playoffs or who beats who! All I'm satin is that your guy hasn't proven anything yet cuz your team hasn't played good teams yet. Devin Harris and Felton are pretty even in my book. However Felton is clearly looking better stats wise. Let's look at that thou. The Knicks have many more weapons than the Nets. Felton also has Amare Stoudemire to dish to while the Nets only have Brook Lopez who hasn't been consistent this year. Lastly the Nets have played a brutal schedule. Magicx2 Heatx2 Utah, Blazers, Hawks, Bobcats, Celtics, OKC tonight, Bobcats next... Now tell me now that it's fair to Harris to call Felton better than him and that's just the Nets. Other PGs are prolly in similar situations. It's TOO EARLY! Looking at everything in perspective Felton is not a that you Knick fans are saying.

So Devin Harris had to face Carlos Arroyo?? Now I know the Heat SHOULD and WILL be one of the best teams in the league. However, the first 20 games they have been far from elite and to quote your argument have been like 2-7 against playoff teams. Knicks also played the Blazers, Hawks, Celtics, Nuggets, Bulls and played a lot more road games. Can't count a game tonight as part of Devins stats. Not sure what Bobcats have to do with anything, but if they are what you consider the elite stat busting teams then the Knicks beat them twice. So all you really have on the Knicks is a few games against the Magic... that shouldn't affect stats drastically.

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 05:44 PM
Felton had more points and assits then him at halftime. It was Brook Lopez who killed the knicks not Harris.

Again your just looking at stats. Funny how Knick fans are the fans that most obsess over stats and DAntoni ball inflates them. Deny it all you want. DAntoni ball= misguiding stats... Anyone who watched that game (prolly only the NY NJ area) will tell you. The Nets were in control of that game. Not score wise cuz we were only leading by two but WE were dictating tempo. Harris was playing very well and we most likely would've won had he not gone down. You guys are not great defenders. Harris was penetrating at will. He was trying to set guys up first. The Neta just suck so they weren't making shots for him. He made so many phantom plays that won't show up on the box score

Kashmir13579
12-01-2010, 05:49 PM
He's Mike D'Antoni's PG of course he has big numbers. He's always been a decent PG, Id say, he's about 21st on my list.

Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Rajon Rondo
Steve Nash
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry
Chauncey Billups
Tony Parker
Brandon Jennings
John Wall
Darren Collison
Devin Harris
Andre Miller
Jameer Nelson
Aaron Brooks
Jrue Holliday
Mike Conley Jr
Mo Williams
Jason Kidd
Raymond Felton

we have a hater on our hands, folks.

NYsFinest
12-01-2010, 05:50 PM
Again your just looking at stats. Funny how Knick fans are the fans that most obsess over stats and DAntoni ball inflates them. Deny it all you want. DAntoni ball= misguiding stats... Anyone who watched that game (prolly only the NY NJ area) will tell you. The Nets were in control of that game. Not score wise cuz we were only leading by two but WE were dictating tempo. Harris was playing very well and we most likely would've won had he not gone down. You guys are not great defenders. Harris was penetrating at will. He was trying to set guys up first. The Neta just suck so they weren't making shots for him. He made so many phantom plays that won't show up on the box score

:cry:

Harris penetrating at will had 8 points and 3 assists halfway through the third. But hey w/e makes you feel better if you need lame excuses thats fine.

Kashmir13579
12-01-2010, 05:53 PM
No you beat a struggling offensive team in the Bobcats because of blocked shots that were probably on forced shots cuz the cats tend to do that. Ask Brook Lopez, who was beastin on them

thats such a generic argument. bottom line is, we're winning, building confidence, and a win is never easy to come by in the nba (ask the heat)

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 06:08 PM
So Devin Harris had to face Carlos Arroyo?? Now I know the Heat SHOULD and WILL be one of the best teams in the league. However, the first 20 games they have been far from elite and to quote your argument have been like 2-7 against playoff teams. Knicks also played the Blazers, Hawks, Celtics, Nuggets, Bulls and played a lot more road games. Can't count a game tonight as part of Devins stats. Not sure what Bobcats have to do with anything, but if they are what you consider the elite stat busting teams then the Knicks beat them twice. So all you really have on the Knicks is a few games against the Magic... that shouldn't affect stats drastically.

The Nets played the Heat early while they were on a roll and before they were exposed. They were playing really well to start the season. Also DWade was checking Harris most of the game cuz Harris was eating Arroyo alive. Again with stat obsession. I wasn't talkin about Devins stats. I just mean it wasn't an easy schedule to play so you can't say Felton is better just cuz his team is winning. We played the Nuggets and all the tough teams tough. Only the two Florida teams blew us out and that was after the half. We were right there with em as I'm sure you guys did too. All I'm satin is close this stupid thread and reopen it after the all star break.

Jetsguy
12-01-2010, 06:09 PM
Chris Duhon sucked majorly.... how is this any sort of point....

If you are talented, you will do well in any system. If you suck like Duhon, you won't.

I think you are misunderstanding my response...it was sarcastic, Duhon sucks and the guy I was replying to said any PG could flourish statistically in D's systems...and I disagreed:confused:

phoenix_bladen
12-01-2010, 06:15 PM
behind Stuckey

i don't think so

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 06:17 PM
thats such a generic argument. bottom line is, we're winning, building confidence, and a win is never easy to come by in the nba (ask the heat)

I agree and believe it or not I want the Knicks to do well. I don't hate the Knicks. I hate their fans. I like Amare AND Felton. It's just too early to put him in the top pg list. Fact is that pg is the most loaded position in the NBA and there just too many good PGs to just base it on stats. It's not fair. If you wanna say based ONLY on stats then obviously you HAVE to put Felton up there. However a little over a dozen games in is too early to ask this. Last year Gallinari had a streaky night against Melo an he was the next big thing. This type of thread is too common by Knicks fans and belongs in their own thread if they wanna hear ONlY what they wanna hear. As long as it's in here, you will get straight answers.

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 06:19 PM
:cry:

Harris penetrating at will had 8 points and 3 assists halfway through the third. But hey w/e makes you feel better if you need lame excuses thats fine.

He WAS. He rarely looks for his own shot in the first half. His teammates suck outside of Lopez. Not too many PGs could play in his spot and do too much better.

THE MTL
12-01-2010, 06:33 PM
There are just WAY TOO MANY great point guards in the league. Imma put him just outside of the Top 10 like #10-12, because Paul, Deron, Rondo, Rose, Nash, Wall, Parker, Curry, and Westbrook are all clearly better. With a debate between Billups, Kidd, Harris and Felton.

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 06:39 PM
There are just WAY TOO MANY great point guards in the league. Imma put him just outside of the Top 10 like #10-12, because Paul, Deron, Rondo, Rose, Nash, Wall, Parker, Curry, and Westbrook are all clearly better. With a debate between Billups, Kidd, Harris and Felton.

First unbiased Knick fan to come in this thread. Props man. Althou Kidd and Billups should NOT be debatable considering te Mavs are playing amazing and Billups is... Well... Billups... Lol but if your talking ONLY stats then yes I agree

John Walls Era
12-01-2010, 06:51 PM
we have a hater on our hands, folks.

How is: Brandon Jennings
John Wall
Devin Harris
Jameer Nelson
Aaron Brooks

Not better than Felton?

Zambo actually made a decent list. Felton is about 15-25 in terms of who I would rather have as a PG.

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 07:03 PM
How is: Brandon Jennings
John Wall
Devin Harris
Jameer Nelson
Aaron Brooks

Not better than Felton?

Zambo actually made a decent list. Felton is about 15-25 in terms of who I would rather have as a PG.

They base everything off stats. To them Knicks are amazing on defense cuz they block shots and get steals.... Strength of schedule, team structure, coach and system, injuries, and past player history mean nothing to them

Hustla23
12-01-2010, 07:05 PM
I think you are misunderstanding my response...it was sarcastic, Duhon sucks and the guy I was replying to said any PG could flourish statistically in D's systems...and I disagreed:confused:
Yikes. My mistake, man. haha

Hawkeye15
12-01-2010, 07:10 PM
He is having by far his best season so far. But I can't imagine that 53.4% eFG will continue, since his career average is 45% eFG. But his usage, assist %(by a lot), win shares/48, and offensive rating are all easily career highs. He is having a very good year to date.
Those who say its the system he plays in are wrong. Your shooting percentage doesn't change much in different systems, unless you are asked to be in a different role, of which Felton is not. His defense is lacking pretty bad, and he gets abused by large PG's many nights. But he is for sure a top 10 PG THIS SEASON.

I would expect his percentages to drop, and there is no way he finishes the year at a PER of 20, but he has had a great year considering

nycericanguy
12-01-2010, 07:23 PM
He is having by far his best season so far. But I can't imagine that 53.4% eFG will continue, since his career average is 45% eFG. But his usage, assist %(by a lot), win shares/48, and offensive rating are all easily career highs. He is having a very good year to date.
Those who say its the system he plays in are wrong. Your shooting percentage doesn't change much in different systems, unless you are asked to be in a different role, of which Felton is not. His defense is lacking pretty bad, and he gets abused by large PG's many nights. But he is for sure a top 10 PG THIS SEASON.

I would expect his percentages to drop, and there is no way he finishes the year at a PER of 20, but he has had a great year considering

In fairness, thats what I thought about Felton in regards to him being able to duplicate last years career high shooting percentages. But he's done just that. 2 years is probably not a fluke, it looks like Felton from the age of 24 up just became a much better shooter. He's 26 now, he wasn't a great shooter in his earlier years, but it certainly looks like he's improved that area of his game.

97NYer
12-01-2010, 07:27 PM
paul
williams
rondo
nash
parker
wall
arenas
curry
westbrook

number 10

koreancabbage
12-01-2010, 07:29 PM
How is: Brandon Jennings
John Wall
Devin Harris
Jameer Nelson
Aaron Brooks

Not better than Felton?

Zambo actually made a decent list. Felton is about 15-25 in terms of who I would rather have as a PG.

this.

Hawkeye15
12-01-2010, 07:30 PM
In fairness, thats what I thought about Felton in regards to him being able to duplicate last years career high shooting percentages. But he's done just that. 2 years is probably not a fluke, it looks like Felton from the age of 24 up just became a much better shooter. He's 26 now, he wasn't a great shooter in his earlier years, but it certainly looks like he's improved that area of his game.

its a monster spike though. No way he keeps that rate. But I would figure it stays above 50% eFG. Regardless, it is obvious he improved shooting on long 2's is here to stay. But it won't stay that ridiculously good haha.
The ONLY thing that concerns me regarding the Knicks and their prospects currently, is their two best players are middle of the pack in simple rating, meaning the team doesn't really miss them when they are off the floor, plus/minus wise.

regardless, Felton isn't joining Paul, Deron, Rondo, Rose, or Westbrook anytime soon, but he has clearly become a very good lead PG. Top 10-12 this season in the short sample size

knicksfan42
12-01-2010, 07:33 PM
He is having by far his best season so far. But I can't imagine that 53.4% eFG will continue, since his career average is 45% eFG. But his usage, assist %(by a lot), win shares/48, and offensive rating are all easily career highs. He is having a very good year to date.
Those who say its the system he plays in are wrong. Your shooting percentage doesn't change much in different systems, unless you are asked to be in a different role, of which Felton is not. His defense is lacking pretty bad, and he gets abused by large PG's many nights. But he is for sure a top 10 PG THIS SEASON.

I would expect his percentages to drop, and there is no way he finishes the year at a PER of 20, but he has had a great year considering

^ This.

haggis
12-01-2010, 07:38 PM
paul
williams
rondo
nash
parker
wall
arenas
curry
westbrook

number 10

:laugh2:

Jason Kidd, Chauncey, and Derrick Rose say hi...

nycericanguy
12-01-2010, 07:39 PM
its a monster spike though. No way he keeps that rate. But I would figure it stays above 50% eFG. Regardless, it is obvious he improved shooting on long 2's is here to stay. But it won't stay that ridiculously good haha.
The ONLY thing that concerns me regarding the Knicks and their prospects currently, is their two best players are middle of the pack in simple rating, meaning the team doesn't really miss them when they are off the floor, plus/minus wise.

regardless, Felton isn't joining Paul, Deron, Rondo, Rose, or Westbrook anytime soon, but he has clearly become a very good lead PG. Top 10-12 this season in the short sample size

Not sure if thats really a bad thing, speaks to the depth of NY. When you can bring in guys like Chandler & Douglas off the bench, sometimes you don't miss a beat. NY will be a solid 10 deep when Azuibuke comes back and if AR can get his confidence back.

Felton is def top 8-12 this year depending on who you prefer, but the idea that he is 15-25 as some have suggested in this thread is ludicrous, give credit where credit is due. He has a legit chance to even make the all-star team if he keeps up. 18ppg, 8apg, 4rpg, 2spg. Pretty impressive.

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 07:40 PM
its a monster spike though. No way he keeps that rate. But I would figure it stays above 50% eFG. Regardless, it is obvious he improved shooting on long 2's is here to stay. But it won't stay that ridiculously good haha.
The ONLY thing that concerns me regarding the Knicks and their prospects currently, is their two best players are middle of the pack in simple rating, meaning the team doesn't really miss them when they are off the floor, plus/minus wise.

regardless, Felton isn't joining Paul, Deron, Rondo, Rose, or Westbrook anytime soon, but he has clearly become a very good lead PG. Top 10-12 this season in the short sample size

Like I said... Stats wise you gotta put him up there. However like I also said this thread was started way too early in this pg loaded league. It's not fair to every other good pg to let Felton get a buy onto the elite top 10 simply cuz the other pgs teams have had brutal schedules. Let's wait till the 40 game mark or so when every team has played good comp

Chucky Woods
12-01-2010, 07:53 PM
Jennings is overrated, I'd replace him with Felton on that list. Haters going to hate HAHA :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: and bulls fans are the ones who say Noah is better than Bogut and about the same skill level as Dwight

kmo429
12-01-2010, 07:59 PM
Never really followed basketball but I watch a lot of ESPN so I know all the big nams and a lot of smaller names too. I do watch maybe 10-20 Knicks games a year, and Id consider them my team (Even though i dislike the NBA) but from what I've seen a few times from him and his stats, he's really surprised me. Didn't expect im to be anything better than average, but he has been impressive and to be a top 10-15 starting PG is pretty good for a team that for years has desperately needed so real accomplished and good players.

Knicks have one I think... 7 of 8 now?? And Amar'e is looking great, other Knicks fans (not gonna include myself because despite rooting for them out of default I couldn't give 2 cents..) should have a lot to look forward to in the future.

:cheers:

knicksfan42
12-01-2010, 08:00 PM
Haters going to hate HAHA :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: and bulls fans are the ones who say Noah is better than Bogut and about the same skill level as Dwight

Yea it's obviously hate, I mean Jennings only what averages less assists and steals than Felton, whilst shooting far less efficiently. I can't pull out advanced stats like Hawkeye, but I have this feeling that shooting under 40% from the field means you're not an efficient at scorer.

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 08:17 PM
Yea it's obviously hate, I mean Jennings only what averages less assists and steals than Felton, whilst shooting far less efficiently. I can't pull out advanced stats like Hawkeye, but I have this feeling that shooting under 40% from the field means you're not an efficient at scorer.

Enough with the dam stats already. It's only been like 15 games! Wait till all star break to compare stats... :facepalm:

AddiX
12-01-2010, 08:29 PM
I think most of you guys who rely on stats really don't know crap about basketball TBH.

You show me some of the top stat producers in the league in any category and I bet I can rip them apart and show you why they suck.

There are a whole lot of players in this league, especially today who put up impressive stats who I wouldn't let anywhere near my team.

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 08:40 PM
I think most of you guys who rely on stats really don't know crap about basketball TBH.

You show me some of the top stat producers in the league in any category and I bet I can rip them apart and show you why they suck.

There are a whole lot of players in this league, especially today who put up impressive stats who I wouldn't let anywhere near my team.

:clap: omg I felt like I was taking crazy pills! Like I really felt like I'm the only one that actually watches basketball. Bringing up stats like 15 games in and proclaiming him a top 10 pg

Draco
12-01-2010, 08:44 PM
Haters going to hate HAHA and bulls fans are the ones who say Noah is better than Bogut and about the same skill level as Dwight

Yes.. not to get too OT but I think Noah is better than Bogut. Or maybe a better way to put it, I'd rather have Noah on my team.. even if health were not an issue.

John Walls Era
12-01-2010, 08:45 PM
They base everything off stats. To them Knicks are amazing on defense cuz they block shots and get steals.... Strength of schedule, team structure, coach and system, injuries, and past player history mean nothing to them

They also forgot to take in the fact that the sample size they're using is like 3 weeks.

AddiX
12-01-2010, 08:58 PM
:clap: omg I felt like I was taking crazy pills! Like I really felt like I'm the only one that actually watches basketball. Bringing up stats like 15 games in and proclaiming him a top 10 pg

Well, what really bothers me is the way these guys act like stats are god.

It's clear they don't remember Jalen Rose putting up stats thinking he was Jordan while his team and coach looked at him in disbelief that he wouldn't pass the ball.

Or Derrick Coleman averaging 20-10 until the Nets finally realized the dude sucked and only played on losing teams.

Or how about Stephon Marbury who did more than any of your favorite PGs in league could dream to do. Everything except lead.

Remember when Ricky Davis got in the league? The hype he had? he's still the same player he was on his draft day.

How about Nick Van Excel? Dude was dropping 40 in the playoffs but Dallas got rid of him ASAP because he never even acted like he was going to pass the ball.

Steve Francis? I can go all day

I'm not gonna name names but a lot of your favorite players are bums. The teams just don't know it yet because they are still young, so they are still watching the "learning process." But make no mistake, they are scrubs who can put up highlights and stats. But they will never win anything and no one will want them on there team once they are mid-20's and still doing the same thing they did as rookies.

KnicksorBust
12-01-2010, 09:21 PM
Raymond Felton has the pedigree and the talent to be near the top 10 (now that he's on a team that is using him to his full abilities) but I honestly don't care about that for him. Forget the stats. It feels like there are a million "good" PGs in the game these days who can put up numbers. All I care about is the fact that Felton is a gutsy player who brings it on both ends and is a great team leader.

John Walls Era
12-01-2010, 09:24 PM
Raymond Felton has the pedigree and the talent to be near the top 10 (now that he's on a team that is using him to his full abilities) but I honestly don't care about that for him. Forget the stats. It feels like there are a million "good" PGs in the game these days who can put up numbers. All I care about is the fact that Felton is a gutsy player who brings it on both ends and is a great team leader.

:worthy: KOB

Chill_Will_24
12-01-2010, 09:28 PM
Raymond Felton has the pedigree and the talent to be near the top 10 (now that he's on a team that is using him to his full abilities) but I honestly don't care about that for him. Forget the stats. It feels like there are a million "good" PGs in the game these days who can put up numbers. All I care about is the fact that Felton is a gutsy player who brings it on both ends and is a great team leader.

Fair enough... Top 10 stats right now... Top 10 talent ... No way... Not ever. If he keeps this up then good for him but there's too much talent in the pg position.

Crackadalic
12-01-2010, 09:30 PM
Raymond Felton has the pedigree and the talent to be near the top 10 (now that he's on a team that is using him to his full abilities) but I honestly don't care about that for him. Forget the stats. It feels like there are a million "good" PGs in the game these days who can put up numbers. All I care about is the fact that Felton is a gutsy player who brings it on both ends and is a great team leader.

This you can have all the stats in the world but if your not a leader or have that toughness or grit then none of that matters.

Felton is a top 15 pg right now im not gonna say where because i dont even know but ill tell you what he is a better leader then that talented bum in marbury no heart whats so ever

Moochman4life
12-01-2010, 10:45 PM
Well, what really bothers me is the way these guys act like stats are god.

It's clear they don't remember Jalen Rose putting up stats thinking he was Jordan while his team and coach looked at him in disbelief that he wouldn't pass the ball.

Or Derrick Coleman averaging 20-10 until the Nets finally realized the dude sucked and only played on losing teams.

Or how about Stephon Marbury who did more than any of your favorite PGs in league could dream to do. Everything except lead.

Remember when Ricky Davis got in the league? The hype he had? he's still the same player he was on his draft day.

How about Nick Van Excel? Dude was dropping 40 in the playoffs but Dallas got rid of him ASAP because he never even acted like he was going to pass the ball.

Steve Francis? I can go all day

I'm not gonna name names but a lot of your favorite players are bums. The teams just don't know it yet because they are still young, so they are still watching the "learning process." But make no mistake, they are scrubs who can put up highlights and stats. But they will never win anything and no one will want them on there team once they are mid-20's and still doing the same thing they did as rookies.

+1.

You need team players to play team games.

Not shoot first PG's, but PG's who look to create first, then when that don't work take it upon themselves to get points SOMEHOW because POINTS win games......then make steals.....block shots....etc....Hail NYK.

Son.

Moochman4life
12-01-2010, 11:07 PM
This you can have all the stats in the world but if your not a leader or have that toughness or grit then none of that matters.

Felton is a top 15 pg right now im not gonna say where because i dont even know but ill tell you what he is a better leader then that talented bum in marbury no heart whats so ever

+2.

When YOU (any of ya'll non-Knicks without a REAL PG) have a PG with some heart, please let me know.

I'm not gonna do the work for you: google Raymond Felton...and look way back to his highschool years....then read all the way up till now. I want you to take a real good look...and it's a series of good reads. Then look at where the Knicks are now with a totally new team, new style.

A leader is a leader.

Ya'll can play NBA 2K+ all you want and think you know what it is to be a PG. I'm not gonna hate, but I think ya'll are misguided.

Get back to reality: Ray-Ray is in the top 10 right now in a lot of above-mentioned categories. Is he the best? No. Do I think he is doing the best he can to make the Knicks the best he can? **** yeah. Do we have a winning record? Yeah. Do we have perennial "somethings"? **** YEAH. Why? Because we're a damn team now...with leaders and ballers. We have hustle, grit, and toughness that allow us to compete all the way till the end of games...no giving up hope.

Is he top 10 today? Yeah.

Can he be top 5?.....**** yeah, son.

Heart is something you can't replace, *****es. Couple that with skill and determination.

= Raymond Felton

Hooyah.

dtmagnet
12-01-2010, 11:08 PM
Somewhere in between dead last and first. Seriously I'd put him around 5th in the East.

Kashmir13579
12-01-2010, 11:43 PM
I'm with you... the D' factor makes him look better than he really is...

His skill set doesn't even mesh with dantoni. nice try though.

John Walls Era
12-02-2010, 01:05 AM
+2.

When YOU (any of ya'll non-Knicks without a REAL PG) have a PG with some heart, please let me know.

I'm not gonna do the work for you: google Raymond Felton...and look way back to his highschool years....then read all the way up till now. I want you to take a real good look...and it's a series of good reads. Then look at where the Knicks are now with a totally new team, new style.

A leader is a leader.

Ya'll can play NBA 2K+ all you want and think you know what it is to be a PG. I'm not gonna hate, but I think ya'll are misguided.

Get back to reality: Ray-Ray is in the top 10 right now in a lot of above-mentioned categories. Is he the best? No. Do I think he is doing the best he can to make the Knicks the best he can? **** yeah. Do we have a winning record? Yeah. Do we have perennial "somethings"? **** YEAH. Why? Because we're a damn team now...with leaders and ballers. We have hustle, grit, and toughness that allow us to compete all the way till the end of games...no giving up hope.

Is he top 10 today? Yeah.

Can he be top 5?.....**** yeah, son.

Heart is something you can't replace, *****es. Couple that with skill and determination.

= Raymond Felton

Hooyah.

You didn't show any evidence what so ever. You just called everyone who disagrees a hater.

nystandup
12-02-2010, 01:26 AM
i really dont care that he's playing under Mike D. the fact is that he is producing and is making the team better with his grit ability to hit shots in the P n r because everyones sagging on Amare and his D is also above average. Id say the fact that the knicks are currently playing really well that he is top 10, although its been a small sampple size of games so far but thats what were discussing. Where is he ranked right now

Mplsman
12-02-2010, 01:40 AM
I was thinking top 12.

hugepatsfan
12-02-2010, 02:20 AM
He's a real good player. Not a top 10 PG IMO, but he's in the 10-15 range I think. A real solid player that any team would be lucky to have. Even as a backup, because he did play a lot of SG w/ CHA, so he would be a ****ing amazing player off the bench. Good starter too.

SteveNash
12-02-2010, 02:31 AM
Bottom 3rd.

NYK_kidd77
12-02-2010, 02:51 AM
Im not even gonna bother to rank him. The guys a good PG and as a Knicks fan having him is such a step up from previous years. The guy brings it every night, hurt, sick, or whatever. Hes my favorite player on the team right now, hes been a huge surprise to me on the offensive end but I knew he would be a good defensive guard, a huge step up from Duhans rolling out the carpet type defense.

SeoulBeatz
12-02-2010, 03:06 AM
love his game, def a top 10 point guard.

gritty style, perfect for new york

29$JerZ
12-02-2010, 03:23 AM
I didn't think asking where he rank would cause so many problems. It's a simple question.
He's playing out of his mind now so I asked where would you rank him currently. Top 10 isn't far fetched, nor is it a permanent thing. I fail to see why this cause people to go in an uproar.

Moochman4life
12-02-2010, 11:10 AM
You didn't show any evidence what so ever. You just called everyone who disagrees a hater.

Someone already showed his stats, and Google is your friend.

And please quote me saying everyone is a hater.

HOZ THE KNICK
12-02-2010, 11:20 AM
whether ppl respect felton game or not he's doing a great job on what we are doing over here........keep up the good play and respect will come.

Weezy
12-02-2010, 11:21 AM
They also forgot to take in the fact that the sample size they're using is like 3 weeks.

And a sample size of 11 games is OH SO GREAT for John Wall. Please... come up with better ones next time.

sixers247
12-02-2010, 11:31 AM
G.o.a.t

HOZ THE KNICK
12-02-2010, 11:34 AM
G.o.a.t

? trying to be funny

mjqusoldier
12-02-2010, 11:41 AM
Feltons in that 2nd tier of good pg's after D-will, Cp, Nash, Rose, Westbrook...

BklynKnicks3
12-02-2010, 12:50 PM
He's Mike D'Antoni's PG of course he has big numbers. He's always been a decent PG, Id say, he's about 21st on my list.

Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Rajon Rondo
Steve Nash
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry
Chauncey Billups
Tony Parker
Brandon Jennings
John Wall
Darren Collison
Devin Harris
Andre Miller
Jameer Nelson
Aaron Brooks
Jrue Holliday
Mike Conley Jr
Mo Williams
Jason Kidd
Raymond Felton

You cant be serious Mike conley lmao,He just abused harris before he got hurt,what has holiday done? Mo williams is a shooter not a pg,same for brooks

xbrackattackx
12-02-2010, 01:23 PM
You cant be serious Mike conley lmao,He just abused harris before he got hurt,what has holiday done? Mo williams is a shooter not a pg,same for brooks

Well if you keep making excuses and taking people out of his list you can get him way higher then 21.

Mike Conley has been playing out of his mind this season where have you been? And Holiday has been a stud as well.

Moochman4life
12-02-2010, 02:04 PM
Well if you keep making excuses and taking people out of his list you can get him way higher then 21.

Mike Conley has been playing out of his mind this season where have you been? And Holiday has been a stud as well.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2753

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3995

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3195

Just figured I'd throw that out there. Oh, and here are your two PG's:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=246

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1994

Jus' sayin'.

javaid64
12-02-2010, 02:09 PM
hmmm its funny people can't give concrete proof behind why he is not a top 15. I mean you say stats dont matter but pg with better or worse stats on worse teams with losing records are better than felton.

Double_R
12-02-2010, 02:31 PM
And a sample size of 11 games is OH SO GREAT for John Wall. Please... come up with better ones next time.

I could see John Wall play one game and know that he is gonna be an absolute star... What you Knicks fans are failing to realize is that Felton has a sample size of way more than 3 weeks and it doesn't show us that he is anything special. So when you act like he is something he's not, we just use what he has shown us. When someone shows you who they are, believe them and Felton has shown us who he is and we non knick fans believe him.

Felton is playing good for the Knicks, but there is nothing concrete to allow us "non Knick" fans to believe it is anything other than a nice start in an inflated system that will come back to it's law of averages.

Right Now there is 15+ pg that I would take over Felton period.

mjqusoldier
12-02-2010, 02:54 PM
I could see John Wall play one game and know that he is gonna be an absolute star... What you Knicks fans are failing to realize is that Felton has a sample size of way more than 3 weeks and it doesn't show us that he is anything special. So when you act like he is something he's not, we just use what he has shown us. When someone shows you who they are, believe them and Felton has shown us who he is and we non knick fans believe him.

Felton is playing good for the Knicks, but there is nothing concrete to allow us "non Knick" fans to believe it is anything other than a nice start in an inflated system that will come back to it's law of averages.

Right Now there is 15+ pg that I would take over Felton period.

I watch every Knicks game and theres a reason why Felton was such a high draft pick and its finally showing. He has a nice jumper and he can get to the basket. He also has good vision and has something that not alot of pg's have these days and thats great leadership skills.

cheetos185
12-02-2010, 03:00 PM
I didn't know the Knicks played defense. But in reply to your post, you can't expect a rookie PG to come in the league and play great defense from the get go. It's something they get better at every season. Just because Felton might be a better defender, doesn't take away the fact that he has nowhere near the abilities of Wall offensively which pretty much overshadows anything on defense.

maybe you missed the game where felton and even douglas embarrased wall

Chill_Will_24
12-02-2010, 03:02 PM
You cant be serious Mike conley lmao,He just abused harris before he got hurt,what has holiday done? Mo williams is a shooter not a pg,same for brooks

The Grizzlies haven't played the Nets yet. Stop speaking out of your *****

nycericanguy
12-02-2010, 03:15 PM
There is so much hate going on here, like people aren't even trying to hide it...lol.

People are saying PG's with way worse stats in EVERY category on LOSING teams are better than Felton even though he beats them in every statistical category and plays on a WINNING team. If that's not the definition of hating then I don't know what is.

Now ok, I get it that stats aren't EVERYTHING. There are other fundamentals and then there is defense as well. So...

Is Felton a bad defender? NO way
Is Felton a mal-content or locker room distraction? NO, quite the opposite, he is co-caption and has shown great leadership skills
Is Felton clutch? YES
Does he play hard? YES

Like seriously, if its not just flat out hating then whats the gripe with Felton?

Moochman4life
12-02-2010, 03:17 PM
The Grizzlies haven't played the Nets yet. Stop speaking out of your *****

Dude, I believe he is referencing Felton on Harris from the other night. Grammatically, it wasn't the best, but I think that's what he meant.

Moochman4life
12-02-2010, 03:22 PM
There is so much hate going on here, like people aren't even trying to hide it...lol.

People are saying PG's with way worse stats in EVERY category on LOSING teams are better than Felton even though he beats them in every statistical category and plays on a WINNING team. If that's not the definition of hating then I don't know what is.

Now ok, I get it that stats aren't EVERYTHING. There are other fundamentals and then there is defense as well. So...

Is Felton a bad defender? NO way
Is Felton a mal-content or locker room distraction? NO, quite the opposite, he is co-caption and has shown great leadership skills
Is Felton clutch? YES
Does he play hard? YES

Like seriously, if its not just flat out hating then whats the gripe with Felton?


Yup yup, this - /\ /\ /\ /\ - has been my whole point.

Double_R
12-02-2010, 03:25 PM
I watch every Knicks game and theres a reason why Felton was such a high draft pick and its finally showing. He has a nice jumper and he can get to the basket. He also has good vision and has something that not alot of pg's have these days and thats great leadership skills.

Fair enough, but there shouldn't be this proclamation that Felton is some top pg, until he does it for quite some time. When you talk about leadership, I disagree, there are plenty of pg's that have leadership, but it is usually only noticed by the fans of that certain team. For example, D Fish is a leader, but I wouldn't want him as my starting pg, another would be Jameer Nelson(who I would easily take over Felton) is the leader of the Magic.

DoJoTheSlasher
12-02-2010, 03:28 PM
He is top 15 so far. Yeah, the Knicks are probably a system where stats are inflated but he has some serious talent.

Williams
Paul
Rondo
Nash
Rose
Westbrook
Parker
Kidd
Nelson
Billups
Curry (pg/sg)
Wall
Jennings
Harris
Collison

So he is #16.

nycericanguy
12-02-2010, 03:46 PM
He is top 15 so far. Yeah, the Knicks are probably a system where stats are inflated but he has some serious talent.

Williams
Paul
Rondo
Nash
Rose
Westbrook
Parker
Kidd
Nelson
Billups
Curry (pg/sg)
Wall
Jennings
Harris
Collison

So he is #16.

Well the thread is asking about this season, obviously Billups has been a better PG in his career but he has not been better than Felton this season. Billups is averaging 14 & 5 and shooting 36%. Alot of fans in the DEN forum have actually been calling for Lawson to start over Billups and saying Billups is washed up.

Jennings & Harris have worse stats and they are playing on really bad teams right now. Collison, again, Felton beats him in pretty much every category handily. 18 & 8 vs 14 & 4... i mean thats a pretty big difference.

I respect your opinion but Felton is much higher than 16th this season. Even guys like Kidd, Curry & Nelson are debatable.

Fact is right now Felton is probably one of the 5 guards that would make the EAST all-star team.

Double_R
12-02-2010, 04:16 PM
Well the thread is asking about this season, obviously Billups has been a better PG in his career but he has not been better than Felton this season. Billups is averaging 14 & 5 and shooting 36%. Alot of fans in the DEN forum have actually been calling for Lawson to start over Billups and saying Billups is washed up.

Jennings & Harris have worse stats and they are playing on really bad teams right now. Collison, again, Felton beats him in pretty much every category handily. 18 & 8 vs 14 & 4... i mean thats a pretty big difference.

I respect your opinion but Felton is much higher than 16th this season. Even guys like Kidd, Curry & Nelson are debatable.

Fact is right now Felton is probably one of the 5 guards that would make the EAST all-star team.

No they're not...

and if I were drafting, I would take Collison, Jennings, and Harris before Felton, but Felton is playing better right now than the previous 3 mentioned.

nycericanguy
12-02-2010, 04:40 PM
No they're not...

and if I were drafting, I would take Collison, Jennings, and Harris before Felton, but Felton is playing better right now than the previous 3 mentioned.

Curry - 20.8ppg 5.8apg 3.6rpg 2.2spg
Kidd - 7.8ppg 9.3apg 4.1rpg 1.8spg
Nelson - 14.9ppg 7.1apg 3.1rpg 1.1spg
Felton - 18.2ppg 8.1apg 4.0rpg 2.0spg

Not debatable? Those 3 are CLEARLY better than Felton? :facepalm:

Curry I even have a hard time putting up there because he really is more of a 2 guard and shares the PG duties with Ellis. But for the sake of argument we'll put him as a PG.

Everyone that is arguing against Felton is just going by their opinions and showing no evidence.

Knickrocketsfan
12-02-2010, 04:44 PM
I am dumbfounded by this talk bout stats being inflated because of a system. The warriors and the Suns play in high tempo offense where defense is not a priority but it seems like it does not matter to these people. Going by the thinking that up tempo offense inflates stats then u must apply these negative to other player who play in the up tempo offense, e.g. nash and curry. O u might as well add parker 2 b/c the spurs are now up tempo. Man haters are just goin to hate:p

mjqusoldier
12-02-2010, 04:58 PM
What they fail to realize is Felton is a top5 defending pg as well. Defense just doesnt matter anymore I guess

Crackadalic
12-02-2010, 05:04 PM
If felton was putting up these numbers in a different uniform there wouldn't be so much hate

Giaps
12-02-2010, 05:08 PM
Knicks threads, among some others, never go over well in the NBA forum.

Hawkeye15
12-02-2010, 06:01 PM
Like I said... Stats wise you gotta put him up there. However like I also said this thread was started way too early in this pg loaded league. It's not fair to every other good pg to let Felton get a buy onto the elite top 10 simply cuz the other pgs teams have had brutal schedules. Let's wait till the 40 game mark or so when every team has played good comp

Oh, I agree its early in the season. But Felton started his improved shooting trend last year, and is in the prime of his career. Its not like he was Sebastian Telfair last year, he was a solid PG.

But I always like to get to the halfway point for a vet, to see how they look before you evaluate

dtmagnet
12-02-2010, 06:48 PM
What they fail to realize is Felton is a top5 defending pg as well. Defense just doesnt matter anymore I guess

Do you have anything to back that up or are you just saying things? Because I disagree with you.

Chill_Will_24
12-02-2010, 06:49 PM
Curry - 20.8ppg 5.8apg 3.6rpg 2.2spg
Kidd - 7.8ppg 9.3apg 4.1rpg 1.8spg
Nelson - 14.9ppg 7.1apg 3.1rpg 1.1spg
Felton - 18.2ppg 8.1apg 4.0rpg 2.0spg

Not debatable? Those 3 are CLEARLY better than Felton? :facepalm:

Curry I even have a hard time putting up there because he really is more of a 2 guard and shares the PG duties with Ellis. But for the sake of argument we'll put him as a PG.

Everyone that is arguing against Felton is just going by their opinions and showing no evidence.

Man points aren't everything! Stats aren't everything. If you had Kidd instead of Felton JKidds stats would jump. As it is Kidd has never been a scorer. He is a TRUE pg. As it is he's STILL averaging more assists. Personally I value assists and steals over points from my pg. Not to mention Kidd is the unquestioned leader of that Mavs team that's playing out of their minds. If it was Felton in that position the Mavs wouldn't be ANYWHERE as good. Curry is not THAT much better so I guess he's kinda debatable, Nelson is starting kinda slow but he's definitely better than Felton. Nelson hits the big shots. Makes the right plays. Plus his team is elite! That alone makes him better. Stop looking at stats! Stats are deceiving.

Chill_Will_24
12-02-2010, 06:58 PM
Do you have anything to back that up or are you just saying things? Because I disagree with you.

I also disagree. Devin Harris was getting past him at will. The only reason Harris didn't have as many points as him is cuz Harris always tries to get his guys going first and they weren't hitting shots. Like ive said stats are very deceiving. Felton had better stats but Harris was outplaying him. In fact Felton didn't start taking over UNTIL Harris got injured. Farmar couldnt contain him. Also let's not forget that Amare makes life easier on Feltons and his stats. Lopez for Harris?... Not so much lately...

Kashmir13579
12-02-2010, 07:00 PM
Man point aren't everything! Stats aren't everything. If you had Kidd instead of Felton JKidds stats would jump. As it is Kidd has never been a scorer. He is a TRUE pg. As it is he's STILL averaging more assists. Personally I value assists and steals over points from my pg. Not to mention Kidd is the unquestioned leader of that Mavs team that's playing out of their minds. If it was Felton in that position the Mavs wouldn't be ANYWHERE as good. Curry is not THAT much better so I guess he's kinda debatable, Nelson is starting kinda slow but he's definitely better than Felton. Nelson hits the big shots. Makes the right plays. Plus his team is elite! That alone makes him better. Stop looking at stats! Stats are deceiving.

2 days later and Chill Will is still trolling it up, not really convincing anybody but himself, and expecting us to believe his eyes over ours since he doesn't believe in stats. your sig alone shows you are extremely biased in your opinions about the Knicks. we get it, your a Nets fan; say what you have to say and move on rather than talking in circles spewing hatred.

Kashmir13579
12-02-2010, 07:01 PM
I also disagree. Devin Harris was getting past him at will. The only reason Harris didn't have as many points as him is cuz Harris always tries to get his guys going first and they weren't hitting shots. Like ive said stats are very deceiving. Felton had better stats but Harris was outplaying him. In fact Felton didn't start taking over UNTIL Harris got injured. Farmar couldnt contain him. Also let's not forget that Amare makes life easier on Feltons and his stats. Lopez for Harris?... Not so much lately...

i'd also like to point out that the only information you bring to the table is opinion based and you have absolutely no facts to back it up.. .. please stop making yourself look bad... or don't.

Gormans Mic
12-02-2010, 07:10 PM
Felton is a good player, the right team can win with him at the point. I like Felton...but I'm not sure I'd have him much higher than the lower part of that top 15. PG is the NBA is very deep.

Chill_Will_24
12-02-2010, 07:21 PM
2 days later and Chill Will is still trolling it up, not really convincing anybody but himself, and expecting us to believe his eyes over ours since he doesn't believe in stats. your sig alone shows you are extremely biased in your opinions about the Knicks. we get it, your a Nets fan; say what you have to say and move on rather than talking in circles spewing hatred.

Trolling? Please??? Am i in the Knick forum??? No. This is the NBA forum. If anything it's the thread starters fault for posting this where it don't belong. As far as convincing everybody I'm assuming your referring to the 3 dozen Knick fans in this thread that are speaking out of their butts looking at ONLY stats that are only 15 or so games in? Cuz truthfully I've only seen a couple of non Knicks fans agree that he's top 10 and they prolly said it to not cause waves cuz they lack the testicular fortitude to speak out. I'm not tryin to convince anyone at all. I know what it is, but not gonna let ppl speak dumb stuff and not call em out. I don't care if it's 100 Knick fans vs me. I'll speak on how I feel. Felton is not top 10 pg. Only stats wise he is.

Chill_Will_24
12-02-2010, 07:27 PM
i'd also like to point out that the only information you bring to the table is opinion based and you have absolutely no facts to back it up.. .. please stop making yourself look bad... or don't.

Info? How bout the fact that the game was televised. Did you even watch??? All Felton had on Harris was slightly better stats. It would be clear to anyone watching that game who was playing better. Harris was dictating the pace. He was getting past Felton whenever he wanted. The Nets, even when they were down by a couple were always the team that was in control. The momentum changer was A broken play where Harris got injured and from then on Felton pooped all over Farmar. Am I saying that we would have won if Harris didn't get injured? No. We COUlD have. You never know. Am just comparing point guards

Kashmir13579
12-02-2010, 07:48 PM
Info? How bout the fact that the game was televised. Did you even watch??? All Felton had on Harris was slightly better stats. It would be clear to anyone watching that game who was playing better. Harris was dictating the pace. He was getting past Felton whenever he wanted. The Nets, even when they were down by a couple were always the team that was in control. The momentum changer was A broken play where Harris got injured and from then on Felton pooped all over Farmar. Am I saying that we would have won if Harris didn't get injured? No. We COUlD have. You never know. Am just comparing point guards


Trolling? Please??? Am i in the Knick forum??? No. This is the NBA forum. If anything it's the thread starters fault for posting this where it don't belong. As far as convincing everybody I'm assuming your referring to the 3 dozen Knick fans in this thread that are speaking out of their butts looking at ONLY stats that are only 15 or so games in? Cuz truthfully I've only seen a couple of non Knicks fans agree that he's top 10 and they prolly said it to not cause waves cuz they lack the testicular fortitude to speak out. I'm not tryin to convince anyone at all. I know what it is, but not gonna let ppl speak dumb stuff and not call em out. I don't care if it's 100 Knick fans vs me. I'll speak on how I feel. Felton is not top 10 pg. Only stats wise he is.

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH is all you say, bruh.

p.s. of course i watched the game. its KNICKS vs NETS, i wouldn't miss us manhandling our crosstown rivals for anything; regardless of whether or not a nets fan is jealous that our 2nd round pick is playing at a much higher level than their lottery pick, or that our new PG is flourishing and starting to turn heads, while your PG is injured like he always is. i will thoroughly enjoy each time our teams meet this year. have a nice day, guy.

Chill_Will_24
12-02-2010, 08:12 PM
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH is all you say, bruh.

p.s. of course i watched the game. its KNICKS vs NETS, i wouldn't miss us manhandling our crosstown rivals for anything; regardless of whether or not a nets fan is jealous that our 2nd round pick is playing at a much higher level than their lottery pick, or that our new PG is flourishing and starting to turn heads, while your PG is injured like he always is. i will thoroughly enjoy each time our teams meet this year. have a nice day, guy.

Wow... That's all I can say...way to get off topic... Bruh... Jealous of what? 15 games if solid play from Fields? The kid is nice but to compare him to a raw kid that just turned 19 last summer... Favors is not dominating... Big surprise... Man handled us? Weren't there like 20 somethin lead changes in the game. Like I said, Harris doesn't have the weapons Felton has so I would take Harris over Felton. Harris was outplaying him and anyone with eyes could see that. Taking this back on topic. The only heads Felton is turning are in NY and ESPN whos executives pray everyday that the Knicks do well so of course they hype their players up. Felton is just a guy with good stats. How many rings does Iverson have? What about Marbury? How about Ellis? Stats mean almost nothing when comparing how good a player is. By the way... Stay on topic... No one here cares about the Nets OR the Knicks... Stick to comparing the pgs... Bruh

knicks09
12-02-2010, 08:20 PM
Wow... That's all I can say...way to get off topic... Bruh... Jealous of what? 15 games if solid play from Fields? The kid is nice but to compare him to a raw kid that just turned 19 last summer... Favors is not dominating... Big surprise... Man handled us? Weren't there like 20 somethin lead changes in the game. Like I said, Harris doesn't have the weapons Felton has so I would take Harris over Felton. Harris was outplaying him and anyone with eyes could see that. Taking this back on topic. The only heads Felton is turning are in NY and ESPN whos executives pray everyday that the Knicks do well so of course they hype their players up. Felton is just a guy with good stats. How many rings does Iverson have? What about Marbury? How about Ellis? Stats mean almost nothing when comparing how good a player is. By the way... Stay on topic... No one here cares about the Nets OR the Knicks... Stick to comparing the pgs... Bruh

Nice sig, too bad we washed you guys 2 nights ago :)

Chill_Will_24
12-02-2010, 08:41 PM
Nice sig, too bad we washed you guys 2 nights ago :)

:D couldnt help it! Lol yea you got that one. You didn't wash us. Felton tool over the game once Harris went down and we coudnt keep up. Can't wait till we play again. That game was competitive and fun... Before Devin got injured I mean

mjqusoldier
12-02-2010, 09:00 PM
I also disagree. Devin Harris was getting past him at will. The only reason Harris didn't have as many points as him is cuz Harris always tries to get his guys going first and they weren't hitting shots. Like ive said stats are very deceiving. Felton had better stats but Harris was outplaying him. In fact Felton didn't start taking over UNTIL Harris got injured. Farmar couldnt contain him. Also let's not forget that Amare makes life easier on Feltons and his stats. Lopez for Harris?... Not so much lately...

NO. Harris was on lock all game by Felton.

mjqusoldier
12-02-2010, 09:01 PM
Do you have anything to back that up or are you just saying things? Because I disagree with you.

Watch him play.

knicksfan42
12-02-2010, 09:05 PM
NO. Harris was on lock all game by Felton.

Yea, I believe Felton was like 9 and 5 at the half shooting over 50%. Harris was shooting like 1-5 or 2-6.

Chill_Will_24
12-02-2010, 10:15 PM
Yea, I believe Felton was like 9 and 5 at the half shooting over 50%. Harris was shooting like 1-5 or 2-6.

I was talking about who was playing better. What is this infatuation with stats that Knicks fans have? Like really Felton was doing a poor job on Harris. Harris never tries to go for his own points early. He tries to get guys like Morrow and Outlaw going. There's no telling what wouldve happened if Harris hadn't gone down and there's no use debating that. Y'all won that one. Felton didn't outplay Harris. Only had better stats like you all like to point out in all your arguments. Watching this Nets team for a while, I can tell when Harris is struggling. He was controlling the pace in that game and had your guys in skates.

Kashmir13579
12-02-2010, 10:31 PM
Wow... That's all I can say...way to get off topic... Bruh... Jealous of what? 15 games if solid play from Fields? The kid is nice but to compare him to a raw kid that just turned 19 last summer... Favors is not dominating... Big surprise... Man handled us? Weren't there like 20 somethin lead changes in the game. Like I said, Harris doesn't have the weapons Felton has so I would take Harris over Felton. Harris was outplaying him and anyone with eyes could see that. Taking this back on topic. The only heads Felton is turning are in NY and ESPN whos executives pray everyday that the Knicks do well so of course they hype their players up. Felton is just a guy with good stats. How many rings does Iverson have? What about Marbury? How about Ellis? Stats mean almost nothing when comparing how good a player is. By the way... Stay on topic... No one here cares about the Nets OR the Knicks... Stick to comparing the pgs... Bruh

ESPN hates the Knicks, "bruh". everybody knows this. the only time ESPN ever shows a Knick highlight is when Gallo get dunked on.

and way to attempt and take the high road... "off topic", you say? i was only referring to the Fields thread where you were having a laugh with another intellectual; and you said,

Lol priceless... You should come over to the Felton thread an give me a hand with all these Knick fans... I got it under control but you can join the fun with wit like that...
then you tell ME to stick to comparing PGs? bashing and discredeting The Knicks seems to be "fun" to you; while talking real basketball doesn't come so easily. you aint worth the time.

:facepalm::facepalm:

Chill_Will_24
12-02-2010, 10:51 PM
ESPN hates the Knicks, "bruh". everybody knows this. the only time ESPN ever shows a Knick highlight is when Gallo get dunked on.

and way to attempt and take the high road... "off topic", you say? i was only referring to the Fields thread where you were having a laugh with another intellectual; and you said,

then you tell ME to stick to comparing PGs? bashing and discredeting The Knicks seems to be "fun" to you; while talking real basketball doesn't come so easily. you aint worth the time.

:facepalm::facepalm:

I never dissed Fields at all. I like the kid! That was a separate thread! Why even bring it up??? That's just idiotic. And all of a sudden I don't know basketball? Cuz I don't look at Feltons stats thru 15 games and proclaim him a top pg? Wow... I don't discredit the Knicks... I'm just not ready to call Felton top 15 pg and definitely not top 10 yet...

knicksfan42
12-02-2010, 10:53 PM
I was talking about who was playing better. What is this infatuation with stats that Knicks fans have? Like really Felton was doing a poor job on Harris. Harris never tries to go for his own points early. He tries to get guys like Morrow and Outlaw going. There's no telling what wouldve happened if Harris hadn't gone down and there's no use debating that. Y'all won that one. Felton didn't outplay Harris. Only had better stats like you all like to point out in all your arguments. Watching this Nets team for a while, I can tell when Harris is struggling. He was controlling the pace in that game and had your guys in skates.

Felton completely outplayed Harris, if you watched the game and weren't a vehement Knick hater you would see that. I'm not obsessed with stats, but they are a tool to prove you wrong. The reason you're shying away from stats is, because they aren't in your favor. Me saying Felton outplayed Harris is going to change what in an argument, nothing you're just going to go back and say the opposite. So then I pull out the stats and they show that Felton was clearly outplaying Harris.

Kashmir13579
12-02-2010, 11:02 PM
I never dissed Fields at all. I like the kid! That was a separate thread! Why even bring it up??? That's just idiotic. And all of a sudden I don't know basketball? Cuz I don't look at Feltons stats thru 15 games and proclaim him a top pg? Wow...

ahhhh, the sound of bitter defeat. know your place, my son.

and do i even have to explain that you were the one bringing up separate threads? i mean, its quoted and right there for all to see; so i'm not sure what's confusing you. are you that slow or are you just scrambling? i'm not sure which would be better. just to clarify, i'm done discussing this (anything) with you; if you reply, you will continue to waste your time and the time of anyone else that will unfortunately stumble across your post.

Kashmir13579
12-02-2010, 11:06 PM
Felton completely outplayed Harris, if you watched the game and weren't a vehement Knick hater you would see that. I'm not obsessed with stats, but they are a tool to prove you wrong. The reason you're shying away from stats is, because they aren't in your favor. Me saying Felton outplayed Harris is going to change what in an argument, nothing you're just going to go back and say the opposite. So then I pull out the stats and they show that Felton was clearly outplaying Harris.

thats logic, my friend. how dare you say something logical? :p

Chill_Will_24
12-02-2010, 11:41 PM
ahhhh, the sound of bitter defeat. know your place, my son.

and do i even have to explain that you were the one bringing up separate threads? i mean, its quoted and right there for all to see; so i'm not sure what's confusing you. are you that slow or are you just scrambling? i'm not sure which would be better. just to clarify, i'm done discussing this (anything) with you; if you reply, you will continue to waste your time and the time of anyone else that will unfortunately stumble across your post.

Yo fa real b, you would be somebody's b***h in prison. Your stubborn as hell. Read the post again! I was OBVIOUSLY kidding with whoever that person was whom I don't remember. Why are we even debating this topic? It's crazy. Stats wise Felton is definitely a top 10 pg and better than Harris, Kidd, Billups, others. However if your really gonna sit there and say that Felton is a better pg than them your just ignorant as s**t. Its no use tryin to speak to homers. I could put a poll up and ask the question, who would you want in your team Westbrook vs Felton and Felton would win by virtue of the sheer number of Knick fans in this site. Taking this back on topic the thread starter asks where Felton ranks not where his stats rank. To me, all factors considered like team structure, coach and system, chemistry issues, basketball iq, importance to the team, clutch play, strength of schedule and entertainment value; sorry but the dude ain't top 15 in my eyes. You don't like my opinion? Thats cool homie. How hard is it not to reply to me?

HOZ THE KNICK
12-02-2010, 11:48 PM
Too personal, this thread is out of hand

knicksfan42
12-02-2010, 11:50 PM
Too personal, this thread is out of hand

Will 24 trolls all the time, it's nothing new.

Chill_Will_24
12-03-2010, 12:11 AM
Will 24 trolls all the time, it's nothing new.

I'm not trolling. This is the NBA forum. Do I go in your thread? No. So how am I trolling? Or even baiting for that matter? All I did was state my opinion that a dozen Knick fans attacked me for not agreeing with their "Felton the top 10 pg" idea...

uprightciti
12-03-2010, 12:32 AM
month of nov. i would say in the east it goes like this:

1. Rose
2. Rondo
3. Felton

knicksfan42
12-03-2010, 12:33 AM
I'm not trolling. This is the NBA forum. Do I go in your thread? No. So how am I trolling? Or even baiting for that matter? All I did was state my opinion that a dozen Knick fans attacked me for not agreeing with their "Felton the top 10 pg" idea...

I saw one of your comments was deleted in this thread, and I remember a bunch were in other threads (not recent ones).

Chill_Will_24
12-03-2010, 12:43 AM
I saw one of your comments was deleted in this thread, and I remember a bunch were in other threads (not recent ones).

Ok... And??? Comments get deleted all the time. Maybe I unconsciously typed a word I shouldnt have. It happens. No infractions so it's all good. Fact is I have said nothing to bash your team (at least no on THIS thread). Only that in MY personal opinion, Felton is not a top 10 pg which is what the original poster asked. He wanted to know where Felton ranks. Stats wise you can say he's better than a LOT of guys he's clearly not better than, like Kidd. You wanna rank stats or players? Cuz the way I'm interpreting the question, Felton is not top 10. I also said that in MY opinion Harris is better. That's debatable annuitant cuz Felton has the better stats and his team is winning. However if you wanna bring up invariables like that then you can argue that Harris bears much more than Felton. Felton plays in an open system while Harris plays in Avery Johnsons slow pace defensive style. Felton has numerous weapons at his disposal including an all star alleyoop machine while Harris has Lopez who has struggled and no one else. Stats are not useful so early in the season

knicksfan42
12-03-2010, 01:08 AM
Ok... And??? Comments get deleted all the time. Maybe I unconsciously typed a word I shouldnt have.

I believe you were personally insulting someone.


he's clearly not better than, like Kidd.

Career wise obviously not, but at this point he probably is and at 37 I would rather have Felton.


Felton has numerous weapons at his disposal including an all star alleyoop machine while Harris has Lopez who has struggled and no one else.


Most of Felton's assists don't go to Amare. As a matter of fact one of the biggest complaints from Knicks fans has been that Felton hasn't run the pick and roll well with him.

When you say Felton has numerous weapons, in the context of your argument, you're saying Harris doesn't. What happened to those summer posts about the Nets having more talent and being a better team than the Knicks?

Apophis
12-03-2010, 01:53 AM
another thread that will eventually be closed... :(

G-Bay New J
12-03-2010, 02:35 AM
I apologize for my fellow Nets fan, were all great fans and just love to defend/debate for our favorite teams and players. I'm sure you guys understand.

But...

Harris>Felton

Haha had to throw that in. :)

Chill_Will_24
12-03-2010, 08:11 AM
I believe you were personally insulting someone.



Career wise obviously not, but at this point he probably is and at 37 I would rather have Felton.



Most of Felton's assists don't go to Amare. As a matter of fact one of the biggest complaints from Knicks fans has been that Felton hasn't run the pick and roll well with him.

When you say Felton has numerous weapons, in the context of your argument, you're saying Harris doesn't. What happened to those summer posts about the Nets having more talent and being a better team than the Knicks?

That was the summer. This is now. Your FO did a way better job in the off season that mine. Besides who was to say Lopez would struggle so badly? Same thing with all the other guys on the team. Your prolly right about the Felton/Amare p&r thing. Still doesn't change the fact that he has better weapons at this point and a better offensive system.

Obviously if I'm starting a team now I pick Felton over Kidd cuz of age but that's not what the thread asks...

If someone fires at me over the net imma fire back. It's that simple. You don't wanna be insulted then don't try to insult. What is this Facebook??? Smh

Chill_Will_24
12-03-2010, 08:16 AM
I apologize for my fellow Nets fan, were all great fans and just love to defend/debate for our favorite teams and players. I'm sure you guys understand.

But...

Harris>Felton

Haha had to throw that in. :)

You don't have to apologize for me cuz I didnt do anything requiring an apology. I bet you didnt go back and see how it all started. I say Felton is not top 10... Couple dozen Knick fans disagree so I get attacked. The thread starter was too vague. He shoulda specified what he meant. Stats wise or as a pg on general. I also said I think Harris is better which I think he is. Just not stats wise so far

Chill_Will_24
12-03-2010, 08:24 AM
Sorry to anyone that might have somehow been offended by somethin I posted but it's whatever. My opinions about Felton wont change. Talk to me 40 games in and if the man is still doing what he's soon I have no problems giving the man his props.

Scalphunter13
12-03-2010, 10:06 AM
its quite obvious that a lot of you didn't watch the magic-bobcat series last year in the first round of the playoffs.....Jameer Nelson LOL'd all over raymond felton........say whatever you want about felton but jameer nelson is 100 times better and I would say jameer ranks around number 10 with a standard deviation of about 2 in the league. (he actually just lol'd all over Rose the other night)

Weezy
12-03-2010, 10:55 AM
I could see John Wall play one game and know that he is gonna be an absolute star... What you Knicks fans are failing to realize is that Felton has a sample size of way more than 3 weeks and it doesn't show us that he is anything special. So when you act like he is something he's not, we just use what he has shown us. When someone shows you who they are, believe them and Felton has shown us who he is and we non knick fans believe him.

Felton is playing good for the Knicks, but there is nothing concrete to allow us "non Knick" fans to believe it is anything other than a nice start in an inflated system that will come back to it's law of averages.

Right Now there is 15+ pg that I would take over Felton period.

I know he will be a star. I am not denying that. But this thread is asking about PGs RIGHT NOW. Not future. Thats why I said that. So since people are pointing out these little excuses for Felton why not for Wall? or Steph Curry? or even Tyreke Evans? I am surprised he hasn't been mentioned ha.

Team*Chicago
12-03-2010, 12:48 PM
Exactly... What guards DON'T dominate the Nets??? I can almost guarantee that Westbrook is gonna eat them alive! The Knicks have played prolly the easiest schedule in the league so forgive me for being a bit less than enthused about calling Felton a top 10 pg

The Knicks did play the easiest schedule in the NBA, who do you know that is playing 6 -.500 teams and 1 +.500 team at the moment that is 6-1 in their last 7 games. I do forgive you for your enthusism which is all good.


No one said Knicks are finished. They have A LOT to prove. Our December-Jan schedule is brutal. Right now we need to win these games.. don't you agree? If your Bulls had our schedule you would say the same damn thing. What matters to me and for most Knicks fans (who will mostly agree) is that we are improving. True NY fans will appreciate that any day of the week.

No offense but I wouldn't be to happy or saying the same thing of killing some -.500 teams because the Bulls are way to good for that and that wouldn't prove nothing. It just shows that losing teams are beating up the other losing teams just to get an easy winning record without improving at all.

Slimsim
12-03-2010, 01:16 PM
Yo fa real b, you would be somebody's b***h in prison. Your stubborn as hell. Read the post again! I was OBVIOUSLY kidding with whoever that person was whom I don't remember. Why are we even debating this topic? It's crazy. Stats wise Felton is definitely a top 10 pg and better than Harris, Kidd, Billups, others. However if your really gonna sit there and say that Felton is a better pg than them your just ignorant as s**t. Its no use tryin to speak to homers. I could put a poll up and ask the question, who would you want in your team Westbrook vs Felton and Felton would win by virtue of the sheer number of Knick fans in this site. Taking this back on topic the thread starter asks where Felton ranks not where his stats rank. To me, all factors considered like team structure, coach and system, chemistry issues, basketball iq, importance to the team, clutch play, strength of schedule and entertainment value; sorry but the dude ain't top 15 in my eyes. You don't like my opinion? Thats cool homie. How hard is it not to reply to me?

Are you Black ?

Young and Stupid
12-03-2010, 01:24 PM
Are you Black ?

Nah, he's Puerto Rican. Be careful -- he takes the race **** to heart so if you go down that road he's definitely gonna catch feelings.

I'm black if you have any salient questions.

Oh by the way, Felton will regress back to his projected production. Eight games ago, every Knicks fan I knew was complaining about Felton's play and his inability to run the pick-n-roll with Stat.

Kashmir13579
12-03-2010, 01:34 PM
Nah, he's Puerto Rican. Be careful -- he takes the race **** to heart so if you go down that road he's definitely gonna catch feelings.

I'm black if you have any salient questions.

Oh by the way, Felton will regress back to his projected production. Eight games ago, every Knicks fan I knew was complaining about Felton's play and his inability to run the pick-n-roll with Stat.

your absolutely right about that... but right now, Felton is getting much better with the pick and roll. Amare's recent success, lack of turnovers, and efficiency has a direct correlation with Felton's improved play. While i don't expect Feltons shooting% and PER to stay as high as it is right now, his chemistry with Amar'e will only continue to improve.