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View Full Version : Wade says the Heat need more ISO's



Chronz
11-29-2010, 06:51 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/1843/is-d-wade-calling-for-an-iso-offense


I think, at times, we get into a space where we let the whole team guard us because we run a lot of pick-and-roll. And we are letting guys off the hook. I want to see someone guard LeBron [James] one-on-one three or four times in a row down the court, because I know what they are thinking: "Somebody please help."

I want to see them do that to Chris. I want to see them do that to me. So itís about how we do it in spots in games, if all of us can be involved together. And itís about how you do it where we are getting other guys involved as well.


Currently, the Heat rank 18th in percentage of possessions used for isolation plays, and rank 9th in points per isolation possessions, according to Synergy Sports.

Working more isolation into the Miami offense could be advantageous, but potentially dangerous as well. James, Wade and Bosh almost always have a matchup advantage over their respective defenders, and anytime you have the opportunity to turn James loose on an ill-equipped small forward, you'd be foolish not to force the issue.

But isolations and clear-outs can be invitations for the sort of stagnation the Heat have pledged to get away from. Unless the player with the ball can make a perfect read on that double-team, and sling the pass to the open man, and the defensive rotation is slow, and the recipient of that pass can finish, it's not necessarily an efficient way to win basketball games. To wit, only one team in the NBA -- the Los Angeles Lakers -- scores greater than a point per possession on isolation plays.
Personally I had no clue they rated so low on ISO attempts

Hawkeye15
11-29-2010, 06:52 PM
you would think when you have two of the best 1-1 players in the universe, you would use an iso or two every now and then

D Roses Bulls
11-29-2010, 06:54 PM
I want to see someone guard LeBron [James] one-on-one three or four times in a row down the court, because I know what they are thinking: "Somebody please help."


wade, your still my favorite player, but please shut up with the cockiness.

Avenged
11-29-2010, 06:56 PM
If the Heat players do go to iso's more often, do you think that they'll clash more for not passing the ball and what not? It looks like this team can't function either way..

ChiSox219
11-29-2010, 06:57 PM
Without looking at the numbers, I'd think this is the opposite of what the Heat need to do.

When Lebron and Wade are on the court and the same time, you just pack the lane and give them the outside shot. If you try to ISO against that defense, you aren't going to have much success.

ink
11-29-2010, 07:01 PM
I hate to say it but: "Ball!" Hedo's obviously an inferior player but he was basically saying the same thing.

JayW_1023
11-29-2010, 07:04 PM
Either LeBron has to move to PF or Wade has to become a Ginobili-like scorer off the bench for this to work IMO. There, I said it.

ManRam
11-29-2010, 07:05 PM
No-brainer.

Don't know who is to blame, the coach or the players. I blame both.

Lebron and wade are too good not to be attacking the hoop regularly.

tcav701
11-29-2010, 07:06 PM
Without looking at the numbers, I'd think this is the opposite of what the Heat need to do.

When Lebron and Wade are on the court and the same time, you just pack the lane and give them the outside shot. If you try to ISO against that defense, you aren't going to have much success.

x2

Geargo Wallace
11-29-2010, 07:07 PM
Mike Brown ftw

Chacarron
11-29-2010, 07:10 PM
How about bringing one of them off the bench? My friend suggested before the season started that in order for Miami to work, one of the big 3 would have to come off the bench in order to bring offense off the bench. I told him he was nuts, but I'm not so sure now.

Chronz
11-29-2010, 07:12 PM
Without looking at the numbers, I'd think this is the opposite of what the Heat need to do.

When Lebron and Wade are on the court and the same time, you just pack the lane and give them the outside shot. If you try to ISO against that defense, you aren't going to have much success.

True, I think what Wade is secretly pining for is less PnR (Brons strength) in favor of his (breaking his guy down 1 on 1). Im sure we all agree they need more movement but the truth is every team will have a steady dose of PnR/ISO make up alot of their offense. Its just a matter of choosing which to rely on more often and whos strengths you want to play to. Which of these do you think helps Bosh game?

tcav701
11-29-2010, 07:21 PM
True, I think what Wade is secretly pining for is less PnR (Brons strength) in favor of his (breaking his guy down 1 on 1). Im sure we all agree they need more movement but the truth is every team will have a steady dose of PnR/ISO make up alot of their offense. Its just a matter of choosing which to rely on more often and whos strengths you want to play to. Which of these do you think helps Bosh game?

I think Bosh would be deadly running the PnR with Bron/Wade. I dont think he likes to set picks tho.

DaBUU
11-29-2010, 07:22 PM
How about bringing one of them off the bench? My friend suggested before the season started that in order for Miami to work, one of the big 3 would have to come off the bench in order to bring offense off the bench. I told him he was nuts, but I'm not so sure now.

even if its an idea that could work and at least try to give them a spark, it'll never happen.

ManRam
11-29-2010, 07:24 PM
Without looking at the numbers, I'd think this is the opposite of what the Heat need to do.

When Lebron and Wade are on the court and the same time, you just pack the lane and give them the outside shot. If you try to ISO against that defense, you aren't going to have much success.

That's who lebron and wade are though; they're guys who thrive on isolations. You don't make them something they aren't. I don't think having both of them on the court running isos makes them any easier to defend.

The whole pack the paint argument has been mentioned as a way to stop them in the past and it just doesn't work. Lebron and wade may not be drop dead shooters, but they aren't bad at all. And again, I don't think having both of them on the court prevents their ability to be the best rim attackers in the league. They need to iso more for sure. That's when they are best and they only way to keep defenses on their toes. Right now, they just shoot jumpers; that isn't working and will never be their best way to win.

KG2TB
11-29-2010, 07:26 PM
How about bringing one of them off the bench? My friend suggested before the season started that in order for Miami to work, one of the big 3 would have to come off the bench in order to bring offense off the bench. I told him he was nuts, but I'm not so sure now.

None of them would accept a role off the bench. I'm pretty sure if even suggested to one of them, all hell would break loose internally. I'm not so sure that's even a good idea anyways, theoretically. What really needs to happen is for the three amigos to look in the mirror and start manning up and taking responsibility. That's how you lead a team. You don't point the finger at anybody else. You man up. I think what's basically happening is reality is hitting them. They're 3 ball dominant ISO players playing on one team. It's extremely difficult for that to run smoothly because you're taking away a bit of all their strengths. So I get what Wade means by there needs to be more ISO, but that would be such a chaotic offense and I'm sure heads would clash that way too. I think they can get a little more creative on offense, but come on. You can't have three all-stars on a team and complain about coaching. There's no easy way out of this and that's exactly what they want.

macc
11-29-2010, 07:28 PM
You run to many isos then you just have a bunch of guys standing around being witnesses. Iso's are ok once in a while but I don't think they should be the offense.

Avenged
11-29-2010, 07:31 PM
I just think these guys need to learn to play as a team.. Look at the Boston Celtics success with all the talent they had at their core.. Same can be done with the Heat if they actually play together. Run iso's if you need to from time to time.. Pick n rolls, penetration etc.. Championship contending teams do it all as a team, and thats what they have to learn to do.

macc
11-29-2010, 07:31 PM
Running iso after iso just won't work. That tells the defense they only need to defend one situation. Moving the ball around and creating is what keeps defenses on their toes. Instead of Iso's, Bron and Wade just need to be attacking the hoop more within their offensive schemes they're running now instead of settling for jumpers. Lebron isn't being greedy enough. You put in a steady dose of drive and dishing throughout the game with those two players and the rest will take care of itself.

mlisica19
11-29-2010, 07:32 PM
Wade is their true leader and he always shows it. Hes the maturest out of these three big time guys and people should start remembering whose really the #1 here.

I dont hear Wades team anymore, the media has turned it into either 1) Lebron Lebron Lebron or 2) Lebron... Wade, Bosh Team.

Chronz
11-29-2010, 07:36 PM
even if its an idea that could work and at least try to give them a spark, it'll never happen.
If thats truly the solution I think Spo should do it secretly. If they all want to start so be it, but sub either Wade or Bron at the 7 minute mark, like really early. Then have the other play the majority of his minutes without the other.

macc
11-29-2010, 07:37 PM
Wade is their true leader and he always shows it. Hes the maturest out of these three big time guys and people should start remembering whose really the #1 here.

I dont hear Wades team anymore, the media has turned it into either 1) Lebron Lebron Lebron or 2) Lebron... Wade, Bosh Team.



That's because Lebron is the better overall player. Or at very least "playmaker" the ball should be in Lebrons hands the majority of the time because he is the better passer of the two.

tonyd3b54
11-29-2010, 07:38 PM
this is why i think this group will never win a championship. hey wade heres an idea how about you guys acutally play as a TEAM. instead its no lets let lebron do it by him self or hey lets just iso me. the only reason why the celtics were good and are still good is because they pass the ball around ALOT. they play as a team they hit the open man no matter who it is. perkins, rondo, avery bradley it doesnt matter if theyre open theyre getting the ball. the celtics even over pass a lot of times when they should just take the easy shot. you will never see this on the heat.

mlisica19
11-29-2010, 07:44 PM
People should be inspired by one's fire, one's passion, one's determination!
Yet too many sports fans forget this and rather drop their jaw at anything entertaining, at god given talent.

Lebron James to me, is the most gifted athlete in the NBA. Yet where is the dedication!
One year he finally gave it his all, he took full focus and put a team on his shoulders and drove them into the NBA. Everyone thought he was godlike... That was, what?, 5 years ago? Since then hes done nothing significant besides individual awards which do nothing to a team, that franchise or really much anyone besides that one player. Its an award and that is all it is...

If Lebron James can mature up, focus on his game rather than his party life and his profits then he could finally grow up and become probably the greatest ever to live. But unlike Jordan, everything seemed to come easy for Lebron.

Lebron followed friends over to Miami for an easy chance at a title, did Jordan need to do that? No he challenged himself and everyone else until success came. He didnt need big time press conferences, or have everyone wait for his answer and def he was no follower.

Thats what inspires me. The greatest to ever live was in every possible way on and off the court the greatest to ever live

Cano4prez
11-29-2010, 07:45 PM
Miami's iso options: Among 71 players w/ > 25 isos, Bosh ranks 1st in efficiency, LeBron 33rd, Wade 65th (via Synergy). @tomhaberstroh


http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=557709

JayW_1023
11-29-2010, 07:47 PM
If the NBA was like a pick-up game this could work.

But it ISN'T.

mjt20mik
11-29-2010, 07:49 PM
If the NBA was like a pick-up game this could work.

But it ISN'T.

This.

IMO, Wade should work on two things. Off ball cuts, and his shooting. Mind you he can get to the rim at will, but for the team to be most effective, they will need Lebron running the offense. If Wade, can sort of mimic a Ray Allen type of game, Miami would be deadly.

That being said, I think when Mike comes back, Miami will be a much better team. They need a person who can consistently hit a jumper.

JayW_1023
11-29-2010, 07:52 PM
This.

IMO, Wade should work on two things. Off ball cuts, and his shooting. Mind you he can get to the rim at will, but for the team to be most effective, they will need Lebron running the offense. If Wade, can sort of mimic a Ray Allen type of game, Miami would be deadly.

That being said, I think when Mike comes back, Miami will be a much better team. They need a person who can consistently hit a jumper.

Too bad Wade's jumper comes and goes. Which is why I believe James Jones should start, and have LBJ move to PF. It would open up the middle while Bosh and Jones would get alot of open looks.

How many PF's can stay in front of LeBron? Josh Smith maybe?

mjt20mik
11-29-2010, 07:54 PM
Too bad Wade's jumper comes and goes. Which is why I believe James Jones should start, and have LBJ move to PF. It would open up the middle while Bosh and Jones would get alot of open looks.

How many PF's can stay in front of LeBron? Josh Smith maybe?

With that being said, how many centers can Bosh defend? It would be amazing for their offense, but it would just make more opponents play zone against the Heat.

JayW_1023
11-29-2010, 08:00 PM
With that being said, how many centers can Bosh defend? It would be amazing for their offense, but it would just make more opponents play zone against the Heat.

Which is why I suggested Wade should play the Havlicek/Ginobili role off the bench, but people think that idea is cuckoo. It makes sense to me though, because 32 minutes would save Wade's body from all that pounding he usually takes. He would still produce. Meanwhile, Bosh should be happy being LBJ's prime Pick 'N roll target.

John Walls Era
11-29-2010, 08:02 PM
3 of their best players excel at isolation plays. Not only do they need more iso's; they also need to run more. They walk up and down too much, need to use their speed in transition.

Crackadalic
11-29-2010, 08:15 PM
None of them would accept a role off the bench. I'm pretty sure if even suggested to one of them, all hell would break loose internally. I'm not so sure that's even a good idea anyways, theoretically. What really needs to happen is for the three amigos to look in the mirror and start manning up and taking responsibility. That's how you lead a team. You don't point the finger at anybody else. You man up. I think what's basically happening is reality is hitting them. They're 3 ball dominant ISO players playing on one team. It's extremely difficult for that to run smoothly because you're taking away a bit of all their strengths. So I get what Wade means by there needs to be more ISO, but that would be such a chaotic offense and I'm sure heads would clash that way too. I think they can get a little more creative on offense, but come on. You can't have three all-stars on a team and complain about coaching. There's no easy way out of this and that's exactly what they want.

Didnt they all wanted to make sacrifices to win championships? They should do whatever it takes to win games yet they are all playing unselfish basketball
The problem with them is they have overlapping talent and not complementing talent. They just don't compliment each other unless all of them sacrifice part of there games but it seems like that isn't happening

sventhedog
11-30-2010, 07:17 AM
these iso's or faster pace might help the team. the main problem of the heat is lebron. unfortunately, no player on the team is smart enough to realize this. Not bosh, not even wade.

i thought wade would be smarter but i was wrong. he is just about to replace mo williams as lebron's puppy. haha. bosh will be his cat.

we probably will soon see wade leading players through dance routines while moonwalking out of the playoffs.

magichatnumber9
11-30-2010, 08:17 AM
I think Wade should apologize for playing some of the weakest defense of his career.

Minimal
11-30-2010, 09:05 AM
This team should turn to Cavs type of team, LeBron running the team. How many injuries Wade had this season? Every game something happens with him. He is the most inconsistent player on the Heat along with Eddie House. As soon as Wade gets benched it looks like they play like a team. When Wade gets on the floor it's iso iso iso for Wade and others just stand and watch, so what was the point of signing so much talent this season? They could left Beasley, Q, JO, Wright and others Spoelstras pets to play iso's for Wade. He was good on the iso last game (only in third quarter), but what happened in Dallas, in Boston etc? He was shooting like 25% from the floor jacking to up to 15 or more shots a game, not to mention his defence... And Miami lost. Wade almost never sets screens, he needs to learn how to play off the ball to be effective in this team, to be a part of a team play.

Miami vs Dallas breakdown (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlzZw20P7jk&feature=sub)

millerandco
11-30-2010, 09:19 AM
the heat are crumbling .. turning to one on one play is NOT the answer.

avrpatsfan
11-30-2010, 09:21 AM
With those egos there's no way someone would play off the bench.

Raph12
11-30-2010, 01:37 PM
At 10-8, they have nothing to lose...

News24/7
11-30-2010, 01:57 PM
At 10-8, they have nothing to lose...

the reason why they are 10-8 is because of those isolation plays :laugh2: (despite the stat that shows only 18th in isolation, i don't know how they **** they got that, but I've seen otherwise.)

Hawkeye15
11-30-2010, 01:59 PM
the reason why they are 10-8 is because of those isolation plays :laugh2: (despite the stat that shows only 18th in isolation, i don't know how they **** they got that, but I've seen otherwise.)

they are complied by watching game tapes of every single team and calculating them. Its pretty damn accurate

Sly Guy
11-30-2010, 02:13 PM
Without looking at the numbers, I'd think this is the opposite of what the Heat need to do.

When Lebron and Wade are on the court and the same time, you just pack the lane and give them the outside shot. If you try to ISO against that defense, you aren't going to have much success.

yep. Cuz for isos to work, you need outside shooters who can make a defense pay when you pack the paint. But the heat didn't invest in guys who can do that so unless james or wade are those guys [and they're not] isos have their own faults.

DitchDat
11-30-2010, 02:48 PM
this team is so dysfunctional

maybe the Big Three in Boston was older and didn't have time on their hands, but at least the sum was bigger than the parts.
The Heat are basically the sum of three talented individuals, who try to play exactly the same as they did when they were the alpha dogs on their respective teams. This will not work.

FairWeatherFan?
11-30-2010, 03:14 PM
As a Cavs fan who witnessed LeIso for the better part of a decade, it makes for great highlights and can win a couple games, but it does not hold up in the playoffs......am i talking about iso's or #6????

AddiX
11-30-2010, 03:14 PM
You can't win a ring with iso. It night be nice for there stats but it ain't winning a ring.

drew_ellis_23
11-30-2010, 03:15 PM
you would think when you have two of the best 1-1 players in the universe, you would use an iso or two every now and then

You would think so but Spoelstra is a idiot.

drew_ellis_23
11-30-2010, 03:20 PM
As a Cavs fan who witnessed LeIso for the better part of a decade, it makes for great highlights and can win a couple games, but it does not hold up in the playoffs......am i talking about iso's or #6????

both LOL

D1JM
11-30-2010, 03:36 PM
U just stAre at lebron, bosh or wade and they want a foul

Chronz
11-30-2010, 03:46 PM
The other problem is why arent the Heat running?

jmtapia
11-30-2010, 06:55 PM
i thought the Heats offense was basically going to be Iso left and right from Wade and LBJ and some pick and roll with Bosh. Havent really seen many Heat games, though.

Sounds like the best way to utilize the talent there IMO.

ChiSox219
11-30-2010, 08:38 PM
The other problem is why arent the Heat running?

Lebron and Wade have never been fast break players, their teams have consistently ranked in the bottom 3rd of the NBA in pace.

They like to iso all day, like it's a pickup game. That's fine if your teammates are great off the ball (like Mo Williams/Varejao) but Miami isn't really built like that.

Chronz
11-30-2010, 11:25 PM
Lebron and Wade have never been fast break players, their teams have consistently ranked in the bottom 3rd of the NBA in pace.

They like to iso all day, like it's a pickup game. That's fine if your teammates are great off the ball (like Mo Williams/Varejao) but Miami isn't really built like that.

I agree I think they dont want to run but you dont think its partly an issue of PG play? If Kidd/Nash were to join the team do you think they would slow him down? What are your thoughts on Chris Paul and his historically slow pace factor?

hard_candy
12-01-2010, 12:41 AM
Nice. I can root against all of the Heat now. :cool:

ChiSox219
12-01-2010, 01:37 AM
I agree I think they dont want to run but you dont think its partly an issue of PG play? If Kidd/Nash were to join the team do you think they would slow him down? What are your thoughts on Chris Paul and his historically slow pace factor?

Even though I've been anti-Heat since July 8th, I always and still think Lebron can play PG and be just as effective as CP3/Nash/Kidd.


As far as CP3 and slow pace, funny you mention, look at the shot clock usage of the 09-10 Cavs and this years Hornets:

http://www.82games.com/0910/0910CLE3.HTM

http://www.82games.com/1011/1011NOH3.HTM

The one thing I notice that is common among those two teams as well as this years Heat, is the lack of good outlet passing. Hard to run a fast break when you lack a dominant rebounder and even harder when you have no one that can outlet to a ballhander. And to top it off, the rebounder has to decide between Wade or Lebron, instead of simply getting it to the PG and then running the floor.

Some media member (Bill Simmons maybe?) mentioned how bad the Heat are at transition defense and these numbers certainly support that:

http://www.82games.com/1011/1011MIA3.HTM

shep33
12-01-2010, 03:02 AM
By more iso's i think he means less iso's.