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View Full Version : chris paul's numbers this year?



james21
11-29-2010, 06:27 AM
We all know chris paul is a great pg, and i think deron williams has seperated himself as being the best pg in the league right now, but is paul really playing better, than russel westbrook, rondo, or even rose? If you agree with me and say no then, what do you think is the problem? if you say he is playing better, please explain how.

Niro
11-29-2010, 06:48 AM
u drunk?

cp3=#1 in the nba

mlozio
11-29-2010, 07:08 AM
Im Hornets fan but I still think that CP3 is the best PG in the league. Deron Williams is great too but he has better teamates. Al Jefferson, Paul Millsap etc. Chris Paul have to make every Hornets action by himself. I still think that Hornets without Chris Paul wouldn't be 12-4...

beardown78
11-29-2010, 07:08 AM
IMO CP3 is number one hands down with the noise New Orleans is making this year and the garbage roster he has around him basically no true number two option on this team a bunch of 3 and 4 options in the starting lineup with him but yet Paul makes them better by creating easy open looks but he still has the ability to go off for 30 if needed.

aussie
11-29-2010, 07:20 AM
yeh CP3 is #1 PG in the game

Bruno
11-29-2010, 08:30 AM
You could make the argument that Rondo is a better passer, he averages 4+ more assists per game that Paul. You could argue that Westbrook and Rose are better scorers. You could argue that Williams is more physical.

The thing about Paul is that he's just the most well rounded; his league leading PER reflects that. If anything, Westbrook is the closest to him, statistically. You give the nod to Paul because of the lead leading PER and because the Hornets are tied for the 3rd highest winning % in the league; he's leading his team to more victories than the others.

DQL
11-29-2010, 09:02 AM
You could make the argument that Rondo is a better passer, he averages 4+ more assists per game that Paul. You could argue that Westbrook and Rose are better scorers. You could argue that Williams is more physical.

The thing about Paul is that he's just the most well rounded; his league leading PER reflects that. If anything, Westbrook is the closest to him, statistically. You give the nod to Paul because of the lead leading PER and because the Hornets are tied for the 3rd highest winning % in the league; he's leading his team to more victories than the others.

it's not that hard to collect assists when your teammates are a bunch of future HOFer's in KG, Shaq, Pierce and Allen. Meanwhile, the Hornets' best scorer other than West and Paul is.. err.. Marco Belinelli

avrpatsfan
11-29-2010, 09:09 AM
He's the best in league no question. Don't the Hornets have the best record in the league?

Hawkeye15
11-29-2010, 09:14 AM
You could make the argument that Rondo is a better passer, he averages 4+ more assists per game that Paul. You could argue that Westbrook and Rose are better scorers. You could argue that Williams is more physical.

The thing about Paul is that he's just the most well rounded; his league leading PER reflects that. If anything, Westbrook is the closest to him, statistically. You give the nod to Paul because of the lead leading PER and because the Hornets are tied for the 3rd highest winning % in the league; he's leading his team to more victories than the others.

its not just his PER. Paul typically leads in nearly every category compared to other PG's. He routinely gets the most out of the least. He made David West a freakin all star for crying out loud. The only complaint anyone should have is about the future of his knee, but we won't know how that plays out until later.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=paulch01&y1=2011&p2=willide01&y2=2011&p3=rondora01&y3=2011&p4=rosede01&y4=2011

Paul is/has been the best PG in the NBA for 4 years now.

Joshtd1
11-29-2010, 09:19 AM
It's not just about stats, its about how much he changes the game when he is on the court. CP3 doesn't have a whole lot to work with. David West isnt an all-star caliber player, but thanks to CP3 he was made into one.

CP3 Im sure could put up 20 + a game ever single night if he shot as much as some of the other PG's, but he definately looks to pass first, in which he kind of has to since no one else besides maybe Thorton can really create for themselves effectively.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2010, 09:30 AM
It's not just about stats, its about how much he changes the game when he is on the court. CP3 doesn't have a whole lot to work with. David West isnt an all-star caliber player, but thanks to CP3 he was made into one.

CP3 Im sure could put up 20 + a game ever single night if he shot as much as some of the other PG's, but he definately looks to pass first, in which he kind of has to since no one else besides maybe Thorton can really create for themselves effectively.

exactly. And Parker honestly deserves consideration for top 3 in the NBA. But the larger fan bases here (cough, cough, you know who you are) wouldn't have it. They would overwhelm any attempt to debate Parker being a top 3 PG.
Paul gives players high percentage shot attempts because he has perfect timing in his passes, and gets his teammates in positions to make shots better than any PG in the NBA

Draco
11-29-2010, 10:00 AM
His "numbers" aren't all that different from what he put up in previous years. Less FGA per game so far but his team is winning games... so big deal.

ttam68
11-29-2010, 10:29 AM
We all know chris paul is a great pg, and i think deron williams has seperated himself as being the best pg in the league right now, but is paul really playing better, than russel westbrook, rondo, or even rose? If you agree with me and say no then, what do you think is the problem? if you say he is playing better, please explain how.

Are you under the impression he's playing poorly? Even though Win/Loss or advanced stats should be weighted heavier than his PPG anyway, his basic individual stats are sick anyway.

17 pts, 5 rebs, 10 assts, 3 steals, 49% shooting, 47% from three, all while leading a relatively bad team to a great record

Yeah...good point, he's really fallen off

JordansBulls
11-29-2010, 12:18 PM
its not just his PER. Paul typically leads in nearly every category compared to other PG's. He routinely gets the most out of the least. He made David West a freakin all star for crying out loud. The only complaint anyone should have is about the future of his knee, but we won't know how that plays out until later.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=paulch01&y1=2011&p2=willide01&y2=2011&p3=rondora01&y3=2011&p4=rosede01&y4=2011

Paul is/has been the best PG in the NBA for 4 years now.

CP3 has the best stats all time for PG's, even better than Magic just like Lebron has it for SF even over Bird or Dr J.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2010, 12:22 PM
CP3 has the best stats all time for PG's, even better than Magic just like Lebron has it for SF even over Bird or Dr J.

now he just needs the roster around him to enjoy post season success. I am convinced that if CP3 were to keep this up for another 4 years, and win a ring any time during that span, he would be the best PG to play

THE MTL
11-29-2010, 12:22 PM
We all know chris paul is a great pg, and i think deron williams has seperated himself as being the best pg in the league right now, but is paul really playing better, than russel westbrook, rondo, or even rose? If you agree with me and say no then, what do you think is the problem? if you say he is playing better, please explain how.

He is the BEST in the league. He might not average 25pts+, but he is doing FAR MORE with way less. And the Hornets are Top 3 team in the NBA right now. And no Deron Williams is NOT better than Paul and its obvious.

CP3 is #1 PG in the league!

ManRam
11-29-2010, 12:24 PM
I agree with those who say Paul is the best in the league...

DreamShaker
11-29-2010, 12:30 PM
He is just as good as anyone. I know it's been said to death...but look at his teammates. He accentuates the positives they have. He takes the pressure off of them with his play-making and creativity. He does what a point guard is supposed to do. He can be effective without scoring 20 points a game even though there is no one else on the roster who is top-ten in their position. He can do it all.

DreamShaker
11-29-2010, 12:32 PM
And no Deron Williams is NOT better than Paul and its obvious.

I don't know if it is a runaway. They are pretty close. What do you think makes Paul so much better?

xbrackattackx
11-29-2010, 12:38 PM
I like CP3,Deron,Rondo all cause they all bring different things.

Joshtd1
11-29-2010, 01:10 PM
I don't know if it is a runaway. They are pretty close. What do you think makes Paul so much better?

Personally I think Paul is the better passer/playmaker because how easy he gets into the lane, along with his speed. His jumper is pretty good, he makes teams pay if they go under a screen. His PER. The fact that his cast around him really isnt that good, but if he is healthy he just makes that team so much better.

I honestly think if you switch him with any other PG on any team, that team will be better then with what they have now. I know I would trade pretty much anyone on the Spurs in a package for CP3 except TD and probably Manu.

ManRam
11-29-2010, 01:20 PM
I honestly think Paul is better than Deron at just about everything. He's a superior shooter, rebounder, passer, defender, and team player. I think Williams' size is a clear advantage, and he might be a bit better at attacking and creating, but seriously, Paul is better across the board.

His stats kills Williams', both career and this year (ORtg, Drtg, AST%, PER, OWS, DWS, you name it)...and he does more with less as well.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2010, 01:23 PM
Personally I think Paul is the better passer/playmaker because how easy he gets into the lane, along with his speed. His jumper is pretty good, he makes teams pay if they go under a screen. His PER. The fact that his cast around him really isnt that good, but if he is healthy he just makes that team so much better.

I honestly think if you switch him with any other PG on any team, that team will be better then with what they have now. I know I would trade pretty much anyone on the Spurs in a package for CP3 except TD and probably Manu.

a couple of differences between the two are their turnover rate (Deron uses a hard crossover to change direction much of the time, and turns it over doing so at times, where CP3 uses low center of gravity and change of direction, avoiding turnovers period), Paul is a more efficient scorer with his opportunities, and Paul is a better rebounder and defender.

The funny thing is, the ONE matchup problem Paul has is against large physical guards, so Deron pretty much outplays him in their head to head matchups. But its an 82 game season and then some for many, so that is how you have to evaluate

ATL Falcons
11-29-2010, 01:23 PM
Chris Paul is the best PG in the league

Chronz
11-29-2010, 02:17 PM
What a horrible thread title, CP3 has the best stats in the game and you begin your whats wrong premise with his production? CLUELESS

nightBULL
11-29-2010, 03:21 PM
it's not that hard to collect assists when your teammates are a bunch of future HOFer's in KG, Shaq, Pierce and Allen. Meanwhile, the Hornets' best scorer other than West and Paul is.. err.. Marco Belinelli

Try telling that to Carlos Arroyo.

nolafan33
11-29-2010, 04:18 PM
The Hornets start is impressive because CP hasn't had to take over games this season. He hasn't scored more than 25 in a game and he has attempted 15 or more shots in only 2 games this season. He's shooting a career best pretty much everywhere, including 47% from three and 90% from the line.

Chris Paul hasn't had to be the playmaker he's usually been in his career.

Ebbs
11-29-2010, 04:20 PM
Deron > CP3

He has the same playmaking abilty and is the better scorer. I also think he is the better defender, Paul is flashier on D but I think Deron is better.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2010, 04:25 PM
Deron > CP3

He has the same playmaking abilty and is the better scorer. I also think he is the better defender, Paul is flashier on D but I think Deron is better.

can you prove any of that? Because advanced statistics show us the opposite.

Baller1
11-29-2010, 04:37 PM
Well Paul's weakness is against bigger guards, so doesn't that doom him come playoff time? Especially considering DWill, Westbrook, Baron Davis, etc., are in the West (not that BD is gonna be in the playoffs). Just throwing speculation out there, not saying this is true.

Chronz
11-29-2010, 04:44 PM
Deron > CP3

He has the same playmaking abilty and is the better scorer. I also think he is the better defender, Paul is flashier on D but I think Deron is better.
Im not even gonna question your theories but can you explain how a player can be flashier on defense?

Sadds The Gr8
11-29-2010, 04:45 PM
Im not even gonna question your theories but can you explain how a player can be flashier on defense?

lol when i read his comment saying that i was like wtf?

Hawkeye15
11-29-2010, 04:46 PM
Well Paul's weakness is against bigger guards, so doesn't that doom him come playoff time? Especially considering DWill, Westbrook, Baron Davis, etc., are in the West (not that BD is gonna be in the playoffs). Just throwing speculation out there, not saying this is true.

have you seen Paul's numbers in the playoffs?

Baller1
11-29-2010, 04:51 PM
have you seen Paul's numbers in the playoffs?

Serious question: Which PG's has he matched up against in the playoffs, because that could be a huge factor in his numbers (i.e. Westbrook's inflated numbers playing against Fiaher)?

Hawkeye15
11-29-2010, 04:57 PM
Serious question: Which PG's has he matched up against in the playoffs, because that could be a huge factor in his numbers (i.e. Westbrook's inflated numbers playing against Fiaher)?

in 07-08', he faced Kidd in round 1, and they beat the Mavs 4-1. He faced Parker in round 2, and the Hornets lost 4-2. Here is how he did in those two series:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NOH/2008.html

In 08-09', he faced Billups, and the Hornets lost 4-1. Here is how he played:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NOH/2009.html


so while he seems to struggle with Deron for example, and some other big PG's, come playoff time, that seems to disappear. Look at those numbers. Amazing numbers

Baller1
11-29-2010, 05:06 PM
in 07-08', he faced Kidd in round 1, and they beat the Mavs 4-1. He faced Parker in round 2, and the Hornets lost 4-2. Here is how he did in those two series:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NOH/2008.html

In 08-09', he faced Billups, and the Hornets lost 4-1. Here is how he played:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NOH/2009.html


so while he seems to struggle with Deron for example, and some other big PG's, come playoff time, that seems to disappear. Look at those numbers. Amazing numbers

Those are, and I don't mean to sound like I'm discrediting Paul at all. He really is incredible. I just want to see him and Williams in a playoff series, that'd be awesome.

I can't wait to see how Westbrook plays against him tonight.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2010, 05:11 PM
Those are, and I don't mean to sound like I'm discrediting Paul at all. He really is incredible. I just want to see him and Williams in a playoff series, that'd be awesome.

I can't wait to see how Westbrook plays against him tonight.

it would be awesome to see Paul up against either Deron or Westbrook in the playoffs, no doubt.

The ONLY time I don't get uppity when the PG comparison comes up, is when someone states going forward over the next 6 years, who would you rather have. Deron is bigger, and doesn't have the potential knee issues

Chronz
11-29-2010, 05:32 PM
lol when i read his comment saying that i was like wtf?
lol, I tried to picture it in my head. Defend with your eyes closed or your head turning away from the ball, maybe he turns his back to his defender altogether. Stand on your hands and contest with your feet?

Hawkeye15
11-29-2010, 05:36 PM
lol, I tried to picture it in my head. Defend with your eyes closed or your head turning away from the ball, maybe he turns his back to his defender altogether. Stand on your hands and contest with your feet?

I thought of doing a cartwheel on a defensive slide. "I am such a good defender, I can even do this and you aint getting by me"

sargon21
11-29-2010, 06:49 PM
Okay this might seem like a ridiculous question, but can efficiency be overrated?

Like let's take an imaginary Player A and Player B argument:

Player A: 28 ppg 7 apg with 45 FG%, 53 TS%, 40 AST%, 20 TOV% (48-34)

Player B: 18 ppg 12 apg with 50% FG%, 58 TS%, 50 AST%, 16 TOV% (45-37)

Can Player A be "better" than Player B with those stats? Considering both teams are equal, play equal strength of schedule and such.

Hawkeye it would be great if you answered this b/c of your knowledge of advanced stats. Thanks.

Baller1
11-29-2010, 06:53 PM
Okay this might seem like a ridiculous question, but can efficiency be overrated?

Like let's take an imaginary Player A and Player B argument:

Player A: 28 ppg 7 apg with 45 FG%, 53 TS%, 40 AST%, 20 TOV% (48-34)

Player B: 18 ppg 12 apg with 50% FG%, 58 TS%, 50 AST%, 16 TOV% (45-37)

Can Player A be "better" than Player B with those stats? Considering both teams are equal, play equal strength of schedule and such.

Hawkeye it would be great if you answered this b/c of your knowledge of advanced stats. Thanks.

Even someone who isn't very familiar with advanced statistics would be able to tell you that player B is a more vauable player than Player A. However, you need to include a USG% with this to know which player is using up more of it's teams possessions.

sargon21
11-29-2010, 06:56 PM
Even someone who isn't very familiar with advanced statistics would be able to tell you that player B is a more vauable player than Player A. However, you need to include a USG% with this to know which player is using up more of it's teams possessions.

Okay, well basically what I was going for here was showing that at less efficiency, considering equal teams, Player A ended up with a better record for some reason or another (taking over games, shooting volume, but still winning more, something like that) :shrug:

Baller1
11-29-2010, 07:24 PM
Okay, well basically what I was going for here was showing that at less efficiency, considering equal teams, Player A ended up with a better record for some reason or another (taking over games, shooting volume, but still winning more, something like that) :shrug:

I see what you're saying. But record can't really affect the evaluation of a player's efficiency. That would simply boil down to who is playing with better players around them.

For example, Melo is on a worse team than Durant at this point in the season. However, Melo is playing more efficiently than Durant thus far. Therefore, just because Melo's team has an inferior record, doesn't necessarily mean he's playing worse than Durant.

Do you get what I mean?

sargon21
11-29-2010, 08:35 PM
I see what you're saying. But record can't really affect the evaluation of a player's efficiency. That would simply boil down to who is playing with better players around them.

For example, Melo is on a worse team than Durant at this point in the season. However, Melo is playing more efficiently than Durant thus far. Therefore, just because Melo's team has an inferior record, doesn't necessarily mean he's playing worse than Durant.

Do you get what I mean?

Yeah I get what you're saying, but then would it be unfair to say Durant is "more valuable" to his team/playing better?

I'm basically getting at the Allen Iverson point of view, keep shooting till you, hopefully, win :laugh2:

Baller1
11-29-2010, 08:48 PM
Yeah I get what you're saying, but then would it be unfair to say Durant is "more valuable" to his team/playing better?

I'm basically getting at the Allen Iverson point of view, keep shooting till you, hopefully, win :laugh2:

If we are talking about this season, then yes, that would be an unfair assumption because as of now Durant isn't even the most valuable player on the team; whereas without Melo, the Nuggets would probably be a bottom feeder.

So as for your original question, record shouldn't really have any affect on a single players efficiency, as advanced statistics such as ts% and efg% are solely a single player's statistic, with no relevance to the team they provide these efficiencies.

I still consider myself a student of advanced statistics, so I'm sure Hawkeye or Chronz will be able to elaborate more thoroughly.

Bruno
11-29-2010, 08:50 PM
exactly. And Parker honestly deserves consideration for top 3 in the NBA. But the larger fan bases here (cough, cough, you know who you are) wouldn't have it. They would overwhelm any attempt to debate Parker being a top 3 PG.


You think? Parker has returned to forum, but his defense is still a bit behind the others, IMO. Westbrook Rose, and Deron are putting up superior stats, and don't look now but Nash is putting up the 3rd highest PER of his career (behind only his MVP seasons). I'd say Parker is top 6 at the moment.



The funny thing is, the ONE matchup problem Paul has is against large physical guards, so Deron pretty much outplays him in their head to head matchups. But its an 82 game season and then some for many, so that is how you have to evaluate

It's funny because if Deron and Pauls teams were to match up in the playoffs 3-4 times over the rest of their careers, and Derons team won/ he took advantage of his match-up with Paul, people would be inclined to give the non to Deron. Especially if Deron has the greater longevity and Paul struggles with injuries. No matter how clearly Paul is superior statistically, and when you watch him, if he always loses that match-up there will always be people who will say Deron is better.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2010, 09:19 PM
Okay this might seem like a ridiculous question, but can efficiency be overrated?

Like let's take an imaginary Player A and Player B argument:

Player A: 28 ppg 7 apg with 45 FG%, 53 TS%, 40 AST%, 20 TOV% (48-34)

Player B: 18 ppg 12 apg with 50% FG%, 58 TS%, 50 AST%, 16 TOV% (45-37)

Can Player A be "better" than Player B with those stats? Considering both teams are equal, play equal strength of schedule and such.

Hawkeye it would be great if you answered this b/c of your knowledge of advanced stats. Thanks.

without knowing a single other stat, player B is better.

Team record is indicative of a more efficient roster. Meaning, player B probably doesn't have the support of player A.

We need to see usage, eFG%, and win share averages/totals of the individuals. We also should look at their adjusted plus/minus rating to make sure we aren't getting a paper star (Corey Maggette anyone). And another great thing to glance at, is how do their teammates perform with them, and without them.

That is why its impossible to just say, player B is better than player A, cause he has better stats. You do indeed need to watch HOW they get them. This is important because its more important HOW you dominate, or HOW you win. An example team wise, is the Mavs last year. Anyone who understand how to read stats knew that they were indeed not a favorite to beat a lesser seed. And the same can apply for a player. Monta Ellis has great looking per game averages the last two seasons, but was not helping his team win a single game.

Just a lot of variables.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2010, 09:25 PM
You think? Parker has returned to forum, but his defense is still a bit behind the others, IMO. Westbrook Rose, and Deron are putting up superior stats, and don't look now but Nash is putting up the 3rd highest PER of his career (behind only his MVP seasons). I'd say Parker is top 6 at the moment.


It's funny because if Deron and Pauls teams were to match up in the playoffs 3-4 times over the rest of their careers, and Derons team won/ he took advantage of his match-up with Paul, people would be inclined to give the non to Deron. Especially if Deron has the greater longevity and Paul struggles with injuries. No matter how clearly Paul is superior statistically, and when you watch him, if he always loses that match-up there will always be people who will say Deron is better.

yep. It would be like evaluating McGrady versus Kobe. McGrady had a better PEAK statistically, but there is no way on this earth you can claim McGrady was a better player

sargon21
11-29-2010, 09:39 PM
Ok thanks baller and Hawkeye for your thoughts.

MacFitz92
11-29-2010, 09:41 PM
I'll take Deron over CP3.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2010, 09:45 PM
I'll take Deron over CP3.

why?

Bruno
11-29-2010, 11:06 PM
yep. It would be like evaluating McGrady versus Kobe. McGrady had a better PEAK statistically, but there is no way on this earth you can claim McGrady was a better player

Right. Mcgradys career is interesting in that respect. In 2003 he posted a PER of 30.3; he posted PER of 25.1 the year before, and 25.3 the year after. Outside of those three years, McGradys PER topped 23.0 only on two other occasions ('01 and '07). Giving him a total of 5 season with a PER of 23.0 or hiigher. Where as Kobe has never hit the 30.0 mark (career high 28.0) but he achieved a PER of at least 23.0 on ten different seasons, including this year. That kind of reminds me of the Bird/Kobe debate we had a few months back while discussing "peak years". What defines it, one season? two, three, four? ect.

I'd like to think Paul will remain healthier than McGrady did; it's just weird watching McGrady now, the guy is younger than Kobe but he just looks so old out there. As of now, there's just really no way to justify Deron over Cp3. He might match up better against him, but theyve never met in the playoffs so who cares.

Durant is hype
11-29-2010, 11:26 PM
a couple of differences between the two are their turnover rate (Deron uses a hard crossover to change direction much of the time, and turns it over doing so at times, where CP3 uses low center of gravity and change of direction, avoiding turnovers period), Paul is a more efficient scorer with his opportunities, and Paul is a better rebounder and defender.

The funny thing is, the ONE matchup problem Paul has is against large physical guards, so Deron pretty much outplays him in their head to head matchups. But its an 82 game season and then some for many, so that is how you have to evaluate

How do you know that? Just Curious.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2010, 11:32 PM
How do you know that? Just Curious.

NBA League pass baby.

I try and watch every team play a minimum of 10-15 times a year, and I watch nearly every playoff game.

Stats tell us a story. Watching games, and then video on top of that (I have watched both play 100 games each, and then watched scout clips on both). Seeing WHY there is a difference in statistical catergories is as important as the numbers themselves.

Geargo Wallace
11-29-2010, 11:46 PM
I don't really think PG ratings matter that much any more. How much more would you rather have Deron over Rose, or Rondo over Westbrook, or Parker over Nash, or blah blah blah blah blah. I swear a third of the league has an elite PG right now.

Hawkeye15
11-29-2010, 11:48 PM
I don't really think PG ratings matter that much any more. How much more would you rather have Deron over Rose, or Rondo over Westbrook, or Parker over Nash, or blah blah blah blah blah. I swear a third of the league has an elite PG right now.

I would take Paul over any of them. That is the point. I honestly think Paul would make any team better, and that includes the teams of Deron, Rose, Rondo, Westbrook, Nash, whatever else.

Mplsman
11-29-2010, 11:55 PM
I like both Dwill and cp3, but CP does have more talent.

daisuke4cy
11-29-2010, 11:56 PM
it's not that hard to collect assists when your teammates are a bunch of future HOFer's in KG, Shaq, Pierce and Allen. Meanwhile, the Hornets' best scorer other than West and Paul is.. err.. Marco Belinelli

Wow i guess carlos arroyo must avg 25 assists a game. He Has Lebron Wade & Bosh.

Geargo Wallace
11-30-2010, 12:00 AM
I would take Paul over any of them. That is the point. I honestly think Paul would make any team better, and that includes the teams of Deron, Rose, Rondo, Westbrook, Nash, whatever else.

I completely agree. That's why I didn't say Paul lol

Hawkeye15
11-30-2010, 12:03 AM
I completely agree. That's why I didn't say Paul lol

That's my B!

jimbobjarree
11-30-2010, 12:19 AM
I would take Paul over any of them. That is the point. I honestly think Paul would make any team better, and that includes the teams of Deron, Rose, Rondo, Westbrook, Nash, whatever else.

I disagree with CP3 making the Jazz better. We rely on Deron's muscle to set strong picks and post up down low. I just dont think CP3's body would hold up doing that night in and night out, it hasnt even in the NOH system.

Hornets and Jazz both got the perfect point guards for their systems. I'd disagree with Steve Nash as well (not this season, but over the last few), they relied on his shooting alot, especialy in D'antoni's system, CP3 just isnt consistant enough from out there.

Hawkeye15
11-30-2010, 12:24 AM
I disagree with CP3 making the Jazz better. We rely on Deron's muscle to set strong picks and post up down low. I just dont think CP3's body would hold up doing that night in and night out, it hasnt even in the NOH system.

Hornets and Jazz both got the perfect point guards for their systems. I'd disagree with Steve Nash as well (not this season, but over the last few), they relied on his shooting alot, especialy in D'antoni's system, CP3 just isnt consistant enough from out there.

you are a fan of a team with an elite PG, so you are going to defend him at all costs, and pull out Sloan's system. There is nothing I can say to change your mind.

Kudos to having one of the best PG's in the NBA hands down. Peace/

Raph12
11-30-2010, 12:32 AM
LMFAO!!! Only on PSD would you see a thread about "Chris Paul's numbers this year" and "Deron Williams has seperated himself as being the best pg in the league" in the same post.

CP3 is leading the league in PER, WSP48M, WS, ORAT, OWS, etc... You were right Tre, most ignorant people only look at "per game" stats lol.

dukejazz
11-30-2010, 12:36 AM
Well deron williams runs an offense better then chris paul IMO. Sometimes it looks liek chris paul only gets assists from passing to open players without running plays.

jimbobjarree
11-30-2010, 12:37 AM
you are a fan of a team with an elite PG, so you are going to defend him at all costs, and pull out Sloan's system. There is nothing I can say to change your mind.

Kudos to having one of the best PG's in the NBA hands down. Peace/

just an observation from watching both of them through the years. I'm a big fan of Paul's as well as Deron's. I just dont think the Jazz would be as effective with a smaller point guard, Deron just gives us so many more options as well as being an elite point guard. Running a strict system just wouldnt make Pual as effective as he is in his freelance role, and thats not saying that he's worse than D Will, just saying he's different in style.

It'd be fun to have a what if machine, and see how we'd play with CP3 on our team.

my one pet peeve with D though is his turnovers, and CP3 has him at that hands down.

Hawkeye15
11-30-2010, 12:39 AM
Well deron williams runs an offense better then chris paul IMO. Sometimes it looks liek chris paul only gets assists from passing to open players without running plays.

can you prove your opinion? Cause I can prove the other way around.

Look at the rates of the player surrounding both when they are on/off the floor for example. Or look at what each individual player (who has played with their respective PG before) does with/without those PG's.

How can you quantify that DWill runs an offense better than CP3?

Do you know WHY Paul's teammates are open many times?

Hawkeye15
11-30-2010, 12:41 AM
just an observation from watching both of them through the years. I'm a big fan of Paul's as well as Deron's. I just dont think the Jazz would be as effective with a smaller point guard, Deron just gives us so many more options as well as being an elite point guard. Running a strict system just wouldnt make Pual as effective as he is in his freelance role, and thats not saying that he's worse than D Will, just saying he's different in style.

It'd be fun to have a what if machine, and see how we'd play with CP3 on our team.

my one pet peeve with D though is his turnovers, and CP3 has him at that hands down.

Sloan had a slight PG for a number of years, I can't remember his name, some kid from Washington. I think he would make the adjustment.

jimbobjarree
11-30-2010, 12:45 AM
Sloan had a slight PG for a number of years, I can't remember his name, some kid from Washington. I think he would make the adjustment.

yeah I was thinking back to him when I was wondering about the what if machine part. It would be interesting, but I stand by my point, we both got the perfect point guards for what we needed.

who do you think has the longer career between the 2 though?

Hawkeye15
11-30-2010, 12:49 AM
yeah I was thinking back to him when I was wondering about the what if machine part. It would be interesting, but I stand by my point, we both got the perfect point guards for what we needed.

who do you think has the longer career between the 2 though?

considering existing medical conditions, and history, obviously Deron. Which is why I won't respond to posters in these debates who pick Deron because he is the better answer for the next 5 years. They have a point.
But to date, Paul has been better.

jimbobjarree
11-30-2010, 12:50 AM
they still really need a playoff series against each other too

shep33
11-30-2010, 01:01 AM
Honestly IMO, i think Deron Williams is the best pg in the league. I just say it because, he's just as good of a passer as Cp3.. he's more durable because of his size, and IMO is more of a threat to score when his team needs a bucket, just because he can score in more ways then Paul IMO.

Very close... But Dwill is the best IMO.
1. Dwill
2. Cp3
3. Rondo

dukejazz
11-30-2010, 01:05 AM
can you prove your opinion? Cause I can prove the other way around.

Look at the rates of the player surrounding both when they are on/off the floor for example. Or look at what each individual player (who has played with their respective PG before) does with/without those PG's.

How can you quantify that DWill runs an offense better than CP3?

Do you know WHY Paul's teammates are open many times?

Well the jazz are really good at assists and run a better offense then new orleans and thats why utah is teh second best team at assists per game from there offense. Chris paul is definitely more freelance.

dukejazz
11-30-2010, 01:07 AM
considering existing medical conditions, and history, obviously Deron. Which is why I won't respond to posters in these debates who pick Deron because he is the better answer for the next 5 years. They have a point.
But to date, Paul has been better.

I feel like a player needs to play in the playoffs and win those kinda games to prove himself. Way more important then regular season IMO. D will has played well in the playoffs and even brought them to western conference finals. Chris paul hasn't even got them close.

sargon21
11-30-2010, 01:07 AM
i don't understand why rose gets disregarded in the next 5 year discussion...

what makes deron/paul/rondo better to overcome rose's improvements that he will hit when he goes to his prime?

sargon21
11-30-2010, 01:09 AM
I feel like a player needs to play in the playoffs and win those kinda games to prove himself. Way more important then regular season IMO. D will has played well in the playoffs and even brought them to western conference finals. Chris paul hasn't even got them close.

didn't CP3 get to the WCF in 07-08?

Joshtd1
11-30-2010, 01:11 AM
i don't understand why rose gets disregarded in the next 5 year discussion...

what makes deron/paul/rondo better to overcome rose's improvements that he will hit when he goes to his prime?

I think because those guys are pass first, yet can still score and have atleast gotten their teams into the 2nd round of the playoffs or farther. Plus all of them are better on defense, Rose could definately work on his from what I've seen.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, because I am alot, and I dont really watch the bulls..but Rose seems more of a scoring PG and seems to only pass out of neccessity whenever I've watched him.

Baller1
11-30-2010, 01:12 AM
didn't CP3 get to the WCF in 07-08?

Almost. Got to round 2.

sargon21
11-30-2010, 01:12 AM
How is:

Regular Season Ranks


* Ranks #45 in the NBA in Points Per Game (16.5)
* Ranks #2 in the NBA in Assists Per Game (10.1)
* Ranks #38 in the NBA in Field-Goal Percentage (0.492)
* Ranks #11 in the NBA in Three-Point Field-Goal Percentage (0.472)
* Ranks #12 in the NBA in Free-Throw Percentage (0.896)
* Ranks #1 in the NBA in Steals Per Game (2.81)
* Ranks #45 in the NBA in Minutes Per Game (34.4)
* Ranks #50 in the NBA in Minutes Played (550)
* Ranks #29 in the NBA in Free Throws (69)
* Ranks #37 in the NBA in Free Throw Attempts (77)
* Ranks #50 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds (70)
* Ranks #3 in the NBA in Assists (161)
* Ranks #1 in the NBA in Steals (45)

* Ranks #49 in the NBA in Points (264)
* Ranks #3 in the NBA in Assists Per Turnover (4.03)
* Ranks #8 in the NBA in Steals Per Turnover (1.13)
* Ranks #17 in the NBA in Double-doubles (6)
* Ranks #34 in the NBA in Free Throws Per 48 Minutes (6.02)
* Ranks #2 in the NBA in Assists Per 48 Minutes (14)
* Ranks #2 in the NBA in Steals Per 48 Minutes (3.93)
* Ranks #38 in the NBA in Total Turnovers (40)
* Ranks #10 in the NBA in Total Efficiency Points (409)
* Ranks #5 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking (25.56)
* Ranks #4 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking Per 48 Minutes (35.68)
* Ranks #40 in the NBA in Turnovers Per Game (2.5)

Better than:

Regular Season Ranks


* Ranks #2 in the NBA in Points Per Game (26.6)
* Ranks #8 in the NBA in Assists Per Game (8.2)
* Ranks #6 in the NBA in Minutes Per Game (39.1)
* Ranks #5 in the NBA in Field Goals Made (144)
* Ranks #4 in the NBA in Field Goal Attempts (308)
* Ranks #31 in the NBA in Free Throws (66)
* Ranks #30 in the NBA in Free Throw Attempts (85)
* Ranks #15 in the NBA in Assists (115)
* Ranks #11 in the NBA in Points (372)
* Ranks #37 in the NBA in Assists Per Turnover (2.21)
* Ranks #29 in the NBA in Double-doubles (4)
* Ranks #3 in the NBA in Field Goals Per 48 Minutes (12.62)

* Ranks #2 in the NBA in Field-Goal Attempts Per 48 Minutes (27)
* Ranks #39 in the NBA in Free Throws Per 48 Minutes (5.79)
* Ranks #37 in the NBA in Free Throw Attempts Per 48 Minutes (7.45)
* Ranks #13 in the NBA in Assists Per 48 Minutes (10.1)
* Ranks #4 in the NBA in Points Per 48 Minutes (32.6)
* Ranks #10 in the NBA in Total Turnovers (52)
* Ranks #26 in the NBA in Total Efficiency Points (338)
* Ranks #9 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking (24.14)
* Ranks #28 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking Per 48 Minutes (29.63)
* Ranks #5 in the NBA in Turnovers Per Game (3.71)
* Ranks #16 in the NBA in Turnovers Per 48 Minutes (4.56)

edit: you guys can just disregard this post, i just put it there so it's easier to read

haha, these ratings are so ****ed up, they change rank and **** depending on if it's a positive or negative, hard to read lol

Geargo Wallace
11-30-2010, 01:13 AM
Deron is a great PG, but he's in a very well defines system by a great coach. He's the 2nd best PG out there but I don't understand how you can say that CP3 wouldn't thrive because he can't set screens like Deron. The system would change for Paul. Hell John Stockton wasn't the biggest and strongest PG in the NBA when he played in Utah.

As for CP3, he'd do awesome things for Utah. There would definitely be a system set up for him to do so.

Joshtd1
11-30-2010, 01:14 AM
Well the jazz are really good at assists and run a better offense then new orleans and thats why utah is teh second best team at assists per game from there offense. Chris paul is definitely more freelance.

What does Utah "running a better offense" then NO have to do with who is better at PG? Maybe they run a better offense because their coach is better, and they have more to work with on offense then the Hornets.

dukejazz
11-30-2010, 01:17 AM
didn't CP3 get to the WCF in 07-08?

he only got to the second round. He didn't make it to the western conference finals

sargon21
11-30-2010, 01:19 AM
I think because those guys are pass first, yet can still score and have atleast gotten their teams into the 2nd round of the playoffs or farther. Plus all of them are better on defense, Rose could definately work on his from what I've seen.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, because I am alot, and I dont really watch the bulls..but Rose seems more of a scoring PG and seems to only pass out of neccessity whenever I've watched him.

Well, Rose is certainly not a me-first type player, he does like to pass (and does not "only pass out of neccessity"), but w/o Boozer, it's what the team commands of him b/c our other scorers, such as Deng, are just not reliable enough. Once Booz comes back Rose will probably be about a 9-10 apg guy. And Rose's defense has definently (sp?) improved this year, and currently has a 106 DRtg (which for comparisons sake, Westbrook, considered a good-very good defender had last year)... But once he does get to that 2nd round I think you're right, he will get noticed/appreciated more.

dukejazz
11-30-2010, 01:21 AM
What does Utah "running a better offense" then NO have to do with who is better at PG? Maybe they run a better offense because their coach is better, and they have more to work with on offense then the Hornets.

Chris paul is more free lance. Doesn't set tough screens or can mismatch any point guard down low. Thats the reason deron williams always wins when they play eachother because hes better. The hornets got a good team too but d will can make the plays to win and make it to the playoffs eevery year and not be injured. He wants to win more and you can tell by watching him play. Chris paul is just too freelance in his offense IMO. He cant take a game over like d will can.

dukejazz
11-30-2010, 01:22 AM
Well, Rose is certainly not a me-first type player, he does like to pass (and does not "only pass out of neccessity"), but w/o Boozer, it's what the team commands of him b/c our other scorers, such as Deng, are just not reliable enough. Once Booz comes back Rose will probably be about a 9-10 apg guy. And Rose's defense has definently (sp?) improved this year, and currently has a 106 DRtg (which for comparisons sake, Westbrook, considered a good-very good defender had last year)... But once he does get to that 2nd round I think you're right, he will get noticed/appreciated more.

Where do you find that defensive rateing your talking about?Stats only show half the story too.

Joshtd1
11-30-2010, 01:28 AM
Chris paul is more free lance. Doesn't set tough screens or can mismatch any point guard down low. Thats the reason deron williams always wins when they play eachother because hes better. The hornets got a good team too but d will can make the plays to win and make it to the playoffs eevery year and not be injured. He wants to win more and you can tell by watching him play. Chris paul is just too freelance in his offense IMO. He cant take a game over like d will can.

Tough screens isn't a good reason to say one PG is better then another. Yes he can't dominate any PG downlow, but he can get around pretty much anyother PG in the league because of his speed.. can Deron beat every PG off the dribble and get into the lane as easy as Paul? Nope.

CP3 can certainly make plays to win the game as well. Not sure where you are getting that he can't take over like D-Will seeing as he is a better overall shooter, and gets into the lane easier.

Also not sure how you can say DWill wants to win more..CP3 is a pretty fiery guy, and we don't know what they are thinking.

Joshtd1
11-30-2010, 01:32 AM
Well, Rose is certainly not a me-first type player, he does like to pass (and does not "only pass out of neccessity"), but w/o Boozer, it's what the team commands of him b/c our other scorers, such as Deng, are just not reliable enough. Once Booz comes back Rose will probably be about a 9-10 apg guy. And Rose's defense has definently (sp?) improved this year, and currently has a 106 DRtg (which for comparisons sake, Westbrook, considered a good-very good defender had last year)... But once he does get to that 2nd round I think you're right, he will get noticed/appreciated more.

Again, I don't watch the Bulls that much so thats why I said feel free to correct me. In all the games Ive seen him, thats what I got from him.

Winning does count for a lot, and pass first PG's tend to be ranked higher then the guys that are more of scorers. If Rose put up #'s like 19-20 ppg, and 10-11 apg Im sure he would be rated a lot higher.

dukejazz
11-30-2010, 01:34 AM
I just feel like d will is a more complete point guard and his strength gives him that x factor. He always outplays chris paul too. Chris paul has no x factor against deron.D will guards him well too but chris paul can't guard d will.

sargon21
11-30-2010, 01:35 AM
Where do you find that defensive rateing your talking about?Stats only show half the story too.

I used basketball-reference.com, but believe me when I tell you as someone who's seen every nba game he's ever played that he's improved

sargon21
11-30-2010, 01:36 AM
Again, I don't watch the Bulls that much so thats why I said feel free to correct me. In all the games Ive seen him, thats what I got from him.

Winning does count for a lot, and pass first PG's tend to be ranked higher then the guys that are more of scorers. If Rose put up #'s like 19-20 ppg, and 10-11 apg Im sure he would be rated a lot higher.

well it wouldn't really be good for our team if he was doing that, b/c he is just such a good scorer

oh well, i'm happy with what we got, let others rank...

JTIVO
11-30-2010, 01:43 AM
Wasnt deron just voted top PG by PSD? I know it doesnt really matter tho. Jus weird how ppl all of sudden are hopin back on CP3's nuts and how dwill is again being underrated and overlooked especially on here when he is having a great year statistically and it shows by his play throughout the year so far. They both are great pg and are 1 and 1A in the league. But i still got to giv the nod to Dwill

dukejazz
11-30-2010, 01:44 AM
problem is d rose gets a ton of turnovers and not a good assist to turnover ratio. Also hes yet to prove himself in the postseason

Joshtd1
11-30-2010, 01:49 AM
I just feel like d will is a more complete point guard and his strength gives him that x factor. He always outplays chris paul too. Chris paul has no x factor against deron.D will guards him well too but chris paul can't guard d will.

Well we all have our opinions, but being stronger then another PG doesnt mean he is more complete. That's like me saying because Paul is faster then D-Will he is more complete.

Head to Head is only one way to look at players, but again its not the only thing. If you compared VC and Kobe head to head, VC actually outplayed him in their matchups, but no one would say he is better.

I just don't think D-Will neccessarily does anything better then Paul, besides "setting screens" and being stronger.

Joshtd1
11-30-2010, 01:50 AM
well it wouldn't really be good for our team if he was doing that, b/c he is just such a good scorer

oh well, i'm happy with what we got, let others rank...

D-Rose is a good player, and I think he has improved a lot from what I've seen. I think for the Bulls to be really good though, he is going to have to cut down on his scoring/shots and be more of a play maker once Boozer comes back.

dukejazz
11-30-2010, 01:56 AM
Well we all have our opinions, but being stronger then another PG doesnt mean he is more complete. That's like me saying because Paul is faster then D-Will he is more complete.

Head to Head is only one way to look at players, but again its not the only thing. If you compared VC and Kobe head to head, VC actually outplayed him in their matchups, but no one would say he is better.

I just don't think D-Will neccessarily does anything better then Paul, besides "setting screens" and being stronger.

He also wins playoff games and isnt always injured.

sargon21
11-30-2010, 02:01 AM
Good discussion guys, all I can say is that time will tell...

Night!

Joshtd1
11-30-2010, 02:05 AM
He also wins playoff games and isnt always injured.

Always injured? Paul has only missed about 40 games for his career..half a season for the 6 years theyve been in.

Sure D-Will wins playoff games, but it does help that he has/had a better cast around him. Not like D-Will has gone that much farther then him in the playoffs anyway, D-Wills farther appearance was losing 4-1 in the WCF, CP3 farthest was losing game 7 in the semi's. Only a 2 game win difference there.

Boozer/Ak/Okur/Miles/Matthews/Millsap..compared to David West?

Even now D-Will still has a better cast. Hornets are playing good though because of how good CP3 is.

dukejazz
11-30-2010, 02:16 AM
Always injured? Paul has only missed about 40 games for his career..half a season for the 6 years theyve been in.

Sure D-Will wins playoff games, but it does help that he has/had a better cast around him. Not like D-Will has gone that much farther then him in the playoffs anyway, D-Wills farther appearance was losing 4-1 in the WCF, CP3 farthest was losing game 7 in the semi's. Only a 2 game win difference there.

Boozer/Ak/Okur/Miles/Matthews/Millsap..compared to David West?

Even now D-Will still has a better cast. Hornets are playing good though because of how good CP3 is.

Don't you love opinions? ;)

Last year paul missed 37. So kind confused about how you are saying about 40? Career he has missed 68 games. Well IMO i think west was better then boozer and really helped new orleans. They have a good team. Matthews should not be included because he was a rookie miles is an ok player off the bench.Also new orleans also had Peja Stojakovic so they were pretty even in supporting cast IMO Also bonzi wells was good for them off the bench. So he has had the supporting cast too.

Joshtd1
11-30-2010, 02:37 AM
Don't you love opinions? ;)

Last year paul missed 37. So kind confused about how you are saying about 40? Career he has missed 68 games. Well IMO i think west was better then boozer and really helped new orleans. They have a good team. Matthews should not be included because he was a rookie miles is an ok player off the bench.Also new orleans also had Peja Stojakovic so they were pretty even in supporting cast IMO Also bonzi wells was good for them off the bench. So he has had the supporting cast too.

I love opinions, its been forever since Ive actually had a debate on here about something.

West, Idk, I think Paul makes him look so much better then he really is. I think Boozer is a better overall player. I would still even take Millsap over him right now. Peja was only good in Sacramento, he is the definition of a system player. His back injuries didnt help either. I would take Matthews/Miles over what they had/have. Wells was at the end of his career on the Hornets.

I don't blame you for sticking up for your player though, I do the same. Im just giving my non biased opinion though since Im a fan of neither.

THE MTL
11-30-2010, 02:44 AM
Overall, the Hornets are winning and one of the best in the West. Imma just comment on Chris Paul taking less shots. Without a significant roster change, CP3 is averaging 3 less shot attempts per game from last season and 5 less shot attempts from the season before that. Chris Paul's PER, efficiency, etc. are THROUGH the roof!

He might not be averaging 20+ as usual but he has a 25% decrease in shot attempts. Which makes this yrs numbers actually just as good as ever.

Hawkeye15
11-30-2010, 09:34 AM
Well the jazz are really good at assists and run a better offense then new orleans and thats why utah is teh second best team at assists per game from there offense. Chris paul is definitely more freelance.

but that proves nothing. Because Deron has a better coach/system, he is a better distributor? I don't buy that at all.

Hawkeye15
11-30-2010, 09:36 AM
I feel like a player needs to play in the playoffs and win those kinda games to prove himself. Way more important then regular season IMO. D will has played well in the playoffs and even brought them to western conference finals. Chris paul hasn't even got them close.

Playoff success is a team thing. If you look at the 17 games Paul has been in the playoffs, he absolutely destroyed it.

Hawkeye15
11-30-2010, 09:38 AM
Wasnt deron just voted top PG by PSD? I know it doesnt really matter tho. Jus weird how ppl all of sudden are hopin back on CP3's nuts and how dwill is again being underrated and overlooked especially on here when he is having a great year statistically and it shows by his play throughout the year so far. They both are great pg and are 1 and 1A in the league. But i still got to giv the nod to Dwill

dude, PSD rankings are the most flawed logic I have ever seen when ranking a player.

Hawkeye15
11-30-2010, 09:42 AM
He also wins playoff games and isnt always injured.

The JAZZ win playoff games with a superior roster and coach. Make no mistake there dude.
Paul missed 30 games last year, other than that he and DWill have had the same amount of games played basically. Not sure where the "he misses a ton of time with injury" comes from with only one 30 game injury in 5 years.

Hawkeye15
11-30-2010, 09:43 AM
by the way, head to heads are not a proper way of rating players. if that were the case you would be amazed at how many players are better then some of your heroes

Joshtd1
11-30-2010, 09:43 AM
Why did this get moved to player comparison forum..this was a good debate, and when stuff gets moved here it dies. I was looking for this thread in the main forum for the longest time.

JTIVO
12-01-2010, 04:45 AM
dude, PSD rankings are the most flawed logic I have ever seen when ranking a player.

lol ya i know just thought its funny how ppl are overlooking dwill again even though hes having a great year so far. Now that Cp3 is healthy again hes being crowned best PG again. And if he get hurts again ppl are gonna be like Dwill is the best pg

Meaze_Gibson
12-01-2010, 07:52 AM
They're both steps above everybody else. But d-will has proved more. He dominates paul in head to head matchups and also has never had a bad playoff series. When boozer, okur, and them fell off, D-Will was still gettin his. He can also guard two's and is generally more dependable healthwise..

Another factor for me is dude like doesn't cry and moan near the amount paul does on missed calls and is unbelievably poised in clutch situations. With that said tho, Lets just enjoy em both

Method28
12-02-2010, 05:14 AM
Man do you guys who are saying DWill WATCH the games or just check the box score? Im guessing you watch Utah play then check the box score for the Hornets games lol

If Paul would have guys who could knock down OPEN jumpers and 3's....this wouldnt even be a debate. Paul can get to anywhere on the court whenever he wants. If you watch his games...he gives his team soooooo many wide open looks it's ridiculous.

DWill is nothing to sneeze at either. He's a bad dude, but Will has had the better surrounding cast by far. CP3 COULD score like DWill if he were to choose to. He's hitting 48% from downtown this year and 90% from the line....so that's an improvement as well.

Imagine CP3 on Orlando with Howard downlow for easy dunks...or Redick/Lewis/Carter left wide open for jumpers or open lanes....wow.