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james21
11-28-2010, 02:44 PM
Just wanted to see what fans thought, does joe johnson now have the worst contract in basketball, for his production and age? Many hawks fans have giving up on him and would love to trade him, is he even tradable? if so what would you give up for him?

Hawkeye15
11-28-2010, 02:48 PM
off the top of my head, probably. But there are a lot of bad ones. JJ is still a really good player, and his skillset will allow him to age well. But they overpaid obviously.

barreleffact
11-28-2010, 02:56 PM
They vastly overpaid. To me, He would be either a great 6th man ala Odom on a championship team, or a third option guy. He is no superstar which is what they paid him to be. IDK how he got max money. But Rashard Lewis' contract is worse to me.

Hustlenomics
11-28-2010, 03:13 PM
is rashard lewis still playing?

HoopsMachine
11-28-2010, 03:16 PM
They vastly overpaid. To me, He would be either a great 6th man ala Odom on a championship team, or a third option guy. He is no superstar which is what they paid him to be. IDK how he got max money. But Rashard Lewis' contract is worse to me.

this

I still view him as a top 5 SG in the league and he will put up those numbers towards the end of the season going into the playoffs, which is probably managements expectation on this

Hawkeye15
11-28-2010, 03:18 PM
is rashard lewis still playing?

haha you know he is. I think to OP meant, due to age, and JJ's deal just starting, its worse than Lewis's, whose deal is much shorter at this point. I would MUCH rather have Rashard Lewis at 3 years, $60 million over Johnson at 6 years, $120 million going into the future

barreleffact
11-28-2010, 03:21 PM
^ very true/ at least in 2 years you could trade Lewis. JJ might not even have trade value right now or at all untill his last year. gross!

Hawkeye15
11-28-2010, 03:23 PM
^ very true/ at least in 2 years you could trade Lewis. JJ might not even have trade value right now or at all untill his last year. gross!

another reason its even worse, is JJ is not only being paid like a superstar and is not one, but Atlanta has no option to actually get a superstar now. They have to pray for development. At least the Magic already HAVE theirs.

Bluerapoileagle
11-28-2010, 03:25 PM
I don't think so. Joe Johnson isn't playing very well so far this year, but I still believe he's a very good player. I don't believe that he deserved the contract that he got last season, but I don't think it's the worst contract in the NBA.

Hustlenomics
11-28-2010, 03:29 PM
haha you know he is. I think to OP meant, due to age, and JJ's deal just starting, its worse than Lewis's, whose deal is much shorter at this point. I would MUCH rather have Rashard Lewis at 3 years, $60 million over Johnson at 6 years, $120 million going into the future

haha damn 6 years

Hawkeye15
11-28-2010, 03:32 PM
how does one judge a contract (meaning, are you just looking at what he makes now versus age and production?)? I mean, sure, for the $16 million JJ is making this year, its not a bad deal. What about in 2014, when a 34 year old Johnson is being paid $23+ million, with another year after that one at $25 million, thereby making him basically untradeable at that time?
You have to look at the entire deal, what it does to the makeup of their team, and what it potentially causes them from not being able to do contractually to make improvements.

barreleffact
11-28-2010, 03:43 PM
how does one judge a contract (meaning, are you just looking at what he makes now versus age and production?)? I mean, sure, for the $16 million JJ is making this year, its not a bad deal. What about in 2014, when a 34 year old Johnson is being paid $23+ million, with another year after that one at $25 million, thereby making him basically untradeable at that time?
You have to look at the entire deal, what it does to the makeup of their team, and what it potentially causes them from not being able to do contractually to make improvements.

Exactly. It would have been terrible even if he had gone to the knicks and they overpaid him, but He's in atlanta. Im from the south and all, but are the hawks financially capable to do this considering the Horford is about to get a contract and Crawford is without one thus far. I mean do they make bank like that? At least the knicks were worth 500 million last year even with a terrible record. How much is ATL worth to offer a role player a max salary? Terrible signings like this are why players are gonna get shafted in this new CBA yet nobody wants to put responsibility on the owners for approving such terrible signings.

Chicagofaithful
11-28-2010, 03:53 PM
that has paralyzed that franchise for the next half a decade... sucks for them... its unfair... if i were them i'd be trading for melo with j smoove and trying to go for a run... its literally their only hope

drobe86
11-28-2010, 04:28 PM
I hope the Mavs consider trading for this so called bad contract. I'd give Caron Butler and Desawn Stevensons expiring deals. Then I'd give a 1st rd pick. Add Joe to our foundation and we would be even more unstoppable than we are right now...

Hawkeye15
11-28-2010, 04:30 PM
I hope the Mavs consider trading for this so called bad contract. I'd give Caron Butler and Desawn Stevensons expiring deals. Then I'd give a 1st rd pick. Add Joe to our foundation and we would be even more unstoppable than we are right now...

you are not looking at it correctly. Its not about the player's ability sometimes. Its about what it does to a player's team and what that team will get out of that player.

drobe86
11-28-2010, 04:41 PM
you are not looking at it correctly. Its not about the player's ability sometimes. Its about what it does to a player's team and what that team will get out of that player.


I hear you but I think Joe gets a bad wrap. Dudes a top 10 player in this league. Extremely versatile, can run the 1-3. He can score 20 ppg, grab 6 rebounds and dish 5 assists. He's outstanding and deserves every dime of of the 120 milion he got. He may not be as exciting to watch as Lebron or D Wade but from a basketball purist standpoint he's a great player....

Hawkeye15
11-28-2010, 04:44 PM
I hear you but I think Joe gets a bad wrap. Dudes a top 10 player in this league. Extremely versatile, can run the 1-3. He can score 20 ppg, grab 6 rebounds and dish 5 assists. He's outstanding and deserves every dime of of the 120 milion he got. He may not be as exciting to watch as Lebron or D Wade but from a basketball purist standpoint he's a great player....

top 10 players don't disappear in the playoffs. JJ might be top 20, but even then I wouldn't feel comfortable saying that without researching it.

say it with me- 6 years, $120 million for a player who is about to turn 30. And his team will now be able to add nothing around JJ, Horford, and the rest of the crew.

drobe86
11-28-2010, 04:50 PM
top 10 players don't disappear in the playoffs. JJ might be top 20, but even then I wouldn't feel comfortable saying that without researching it.

say it with me- 6 years, $120 million for a player who is about to turn 30. And his team will now be able to add nothing around JJ, Horford, and the rest of the crew.

Yea that's how you look at as a casual fan but you are better than that Hawkeye... First of all Joe was handicapped by a coach that ran nothing but Isolation sets. Second of all who from the Hawks gave Joe any help? To blame that sweep debacle strictly on JJ is terrible Hawkeye and you know it. I still maintain that Joe is the most underrated player in this league. That mans a bonafide superstar....

Hawkeye15
11-28-2010, 04:55 PM
Yea that's how you look at as a casual fan but you are better than that Hawkeye... First of all Joe was handicapped by a coach that ran nothing but Isolation sets. Second of all who from the Hawks gave Joe any help? To blame that sweep debacle strictly on JJ is terrible Hawkeye and you know it. I still maintain that Joe is the most underrated player in this league. That mans a bonafide superstar....

you are overrating Joe Johnson big time dude.
And I wasn't blaming the sweep on him, but he was really bad dude. Really bad. Superstars don't do that. And Joe Johnson is nowhere near a superstar. He is a very good SG. But you don't give max deals to players like JJ.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=johnsjo02&y1=2010&p2=wadedw01&y2=2010&p3=bryanko01&y3=2010&p4=ginobma01&y4=2010

here he is next to Wade, Kobe, and Manu. They are all better players. This is from last year btw.

ko8e24
11-28-2010, 05:03 PM
They vastly overpaid. To me, He would be either a great 6th man ala Odom on a championship team, or a third option guy. He is no superstar which is what they paid him to be. IDK how he got max money. But Rashard Lewis' contract is worse to me.

Here's a comparison of Joe Johnson and Lamar Odom, lol

Joe Johnson (As the 1st Option)

36.1 MPG
17.1 PPG
4.2 RPG
5.3 APG
.71 SPG
.24 BPG
40.4% FG
26.0% 3-PT
80.9% FT

Lamar Odom (As the 3rd, sometimes 4th or even 5th Option)

34.7 MPG
15.1 PPG
10.4 RPG
3.8 APG
.56 SPG
.69 BPG
57.6% FG
50.0% 3-PT
70.0% FT



Numbers are pretty close when you take into account Joe Johnson's status on the pecking order on his team as opposed to LO. Not saying LO is better than JJ, but man, he doesn't deserve that max contract by any measure.

Hawkeye15
11-28-2010, 05:04 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=johnsjo02&y1=2011&p2=wadedw01&y2=2011&p3=bryanko01&y3=2011&p4=ginobma01&y4=2011

for this year. JJ is playing like an average starting SG so far. His PER is under 16, and his TS% is really pretty bad. Sorry, he is not living up to his deal whatsoever so far. And we still have 5.75 years of it to go.

drobe86
11-28-2010, 05:06 PM
you are overrating Joe Johnson big time dude.
And I wasn't blaming the sweep on him, but he was really bad dude. Really bad. Superstars don't do that. And Joe Johnson is nowhere near a superstar. He is a very good SG. But you don't give max deals to players like JJ.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=johnsjo02&y1=2010&p2=wadedw01&y2=2010&p3=bryanko01&y3=2010&p4=ginobma01&y4=2010

here he is next to Wade, Kobe, and Manu. They are all better players. This is from last year btw.


I guess man... JJ is outstanding and even if your Wolves had him you guys would be a playoff team. Joe Johnson has won everywhere he's went. Even as a Mavs fan, I actually live in Atlanta and pay money just to see him play. He doesn't have as good a supporting cast as people think and the man is a baller. He's rightup there with Kobe, Lebron, and Dwade. He's not as loud and doesn't put on as much as a side show but like I said if you watch the game , like I know you do Hawkeye you gotta give the man credit...

ko8e24
11-28-2010, 05:08 PM
Yea that's how you look at as a casual fan but you are better than that Hawkeye... First of all Joe was handicapped by a coach that ran nothing but Isolation sets. Second of all who from the Hawks gave Joe any help? To blame that sweep debacle strictly on JJ is terrible Hawkeye and you know it. I still maintain that Joe is the most underrated player in this league. That mans a bonafide superstar....

Whenever a team wins, at the end of the day, the superstar gets the most credit. So why can't it be that when the team loses, that superstar should receive the majority of the brunt and criticism? Especially if he's supposed to be that "franchise player", if he can't do **** in the scoring department (like he failed to do so against Orlando in the playoffs), then he could have at least piled up on the assists, steal, rebounds, blocks etc. and have an impact defensively and getting his teammates involved.

Hell, people criticized Kobe in game 7 of the Finals for his 23 pt 6-24 shooting debacle, but he helped his team on the boards get 15 rebounds, as well as making that key assist to Artest for the 3 pter with a minute left to extend the lead to 6. Also, it didn't hurt him doing a superb job defensively on Rondo in that game 7.

That's what true superstars do, if they lack in one department, they make it up in another department. If Joe Johnson can't help his team offensively, then he is doomed all-in-all. That is not the mark of a superstar or true franchise player.

Hawkeye15
11-28-2010, 05:10 PM
I guess man... JJ is outstanding and even if your Wolves had him you guys would be a playoff team. Joe Johnson has won everywhere he's went. Even as a Mavs fan, I actually live in Atlanta and pay money just to see him play. He doesn't have as good a supporting cast as people think and the man is a baller. He's rightup there with Kobe, Lebron, and Dwade. He's not as loud and doesn't put on as much as a side show but like I said if you watch the game , like I know you do Hawkeye you gotta give the man credit...

yeah as an 8th seed with no ability to add pieces. No thanks. I have watched him plenty. it would be different if the Hawks already had the help around him to be a contender. But they don't. And now they can't add the help they will need. And THAT is why its arguably the worst deal in the NBA

abe_froman
11-28-2010, 05:11 PM
Yea that's how you look at as a casual fan but you are better than that Hawkeye... First of all Joe was handicapped by a coach that ran nothing but Isolation sets. Second of all who from the Hawks gave Joe any help? To blame that sweep debacle strictly on JJ is terrible Hawkeye and you know it. I still maintain that Joe is the most underrated player in this league. That mans a bonafide superstar....

superstars show up when it counts,when the pressure is on..jj doesnt do that,so i would call him one.

also i dont understand your want for jj,especially being a mav's fan as you are.how many times have you seen your team fly through the regular season,putting up good stats only to have everyone but dirk shrink and checkout mentally come playoff time? ...well thats jj,he isnt fixing that problem,just reinforcing that cycle to continue for the next 6 years

drobe86
11-28-2010, 05:17 PM
yeah as an 8th seed with no ability to add pieces. No thanks. I have watched him plenty. it would be different if the Hawks already had the help around him to be a contender. But they don't. And now they can't add the help they will need. And THAT is why its arguably the worst deal in the NBA


Well sign the Mavs up, and we'll show you how good this guy is. JJ is a top 10 player in the NBA and I'm sticking with it....

Matrix3132
11-28-2010, 05:18 PM
superstars show up when it counts,when the pressure is on..jj doesnt do that,so i would call him one.

also i dont understand your want for jj,especially being a mav's fan as you are.how many times have you seen your team fly through the regular season,putting up good stats only to have everyone but dirk shrink and checkout mentally come playoff time? ...well thats jj,he isnt fixing that problem,just reinforcing that cycle to continue for the next 6 years

The way you and other people are throwing around "superstars show up when it counts" implies that the only superstars, in your eyes, are only players who won the championship last season....so are Kobe and Gasol the only current superstars? Lebron "didn't show up" during the celtics series, many said he was dogging it, so is he not a super star? Superstars put up big numbers and "teams" show up when it counts. JJ has a very even stat line and although he's struggling this year with his shot, he's a top 3-5 sg.

Hawkeye15
11-28-2010, 05:19 PM
Well sign the Mavs up, and we'll show you how good this guy is. JJ is a top 10 player in the NBA and I'm sticking with it....

but don't you see circumstances change then? If the Mavs could piece together a deal to get him while holding onto Dirk, Kidd, Chandler, and some other important pieces, Johnson becomes horribly overpaid but not to the degree where it cripples his team.
You need to not just look at Player A, and Dollars. Look at what that contract does to a team

And JJ isn't even a top 4 SG. How can he be a top 10 player??

Hawkeye15
11-28-2010, 05:21 PM
The way you and other people are throwing around "superstars show up when it counts" implies that the only superstars, in your eyes, are only players who won the championship last season....so are Kobe and Gasol the only current superstars? Lebron "didn't show up" during the celtics series, many said he was dogging it, so is he not a super star? Superstars put up big numbers and "teams" show up when it counts. JJ has a very even stat line and although he's struggling this year with his shot, he's a top 3-5 sg.

no. McGrady or LeBron still threw up incredible numbers DESPITE their team losing. That is what superstars do. Superstars don't just play like horsecrap when it matters most.

abe_froman
11-28-2010, 05:26 PM
The way you and other people are throwing around "superstars show up when it counts" implies that the only superstars, in your eyes, are only players who won the championship last season....so are Kobe and Gasol the only current superstars? Lebron "didn't show up" during the celtics series, many said he was dogging it, so is he not a super star? Superstars put up big numbers and "teams" show up when it counts. JJ has a very even stat line and although he's struggling this year with his shot, he's a top 3-5 sg.

no,you can still go balls out in losing efforts.but rewatch his series,he doesnt do that.his isnt a case of carrying a bunch of dead weight and thus why they fail,he has a good enough team

and yes he's a top 5 sg,but that doesnt mean your a superstar

Matrix3132
11-28-2010, 05:40 PM
no,you can still go balls out in losing efforts.but rewatch his series,he doesnt do that.his isnt a case of carrying a bunch of dead weight and thus why they fail,he has a good enough team

and yes he's a top 5 sg,but that doesnt mean your a superstar

Yeah, I'll rewatch game 5 against the celtics last year and watch lebron go balls out...how soon we do forget....

So what makes you a superstar if not top 5 at your position, best on your perennial playoff team? What if he was top 3 at his position? People act like there's a quota for how many superstars there can and can't be

Hawkeye15
11-28-2010, 05:42 PM
Yeah, I'll rewatch game 5 against the celtics last year and watch lebron go balls out...how soon we do forget....

So what makes you a superstar if not top 5 at your position, best on your perennial playoff team? What if he was top 3 at his position? People act like there's a quota for how many superstars there can and can't be

so there are 25+ superstars in the NBA any given year in your opinion?
Pretty liberal with that term, don't you think?

Matrix3132
11-28-2010, 05:43 PM
no. McGrady or LeBron still threw up incredible numbers DESPITE their team losing. That is what superstars do. Superstars don't just play like horsecrap when it matters most.

McGrady's numbers were the reason his teams lost. All he cared about was getting his

Hawkeye15
11-28-2010, 05:44 PM
McGrady's numbers were the reason his teams lost. All he cared about was getting his

have you met Chronz? I think he can fix that opinion of yours regarding McGrady and his playoff "failures"

Matrix3132
11-28-2010, 05:46 PM
so there are 25+ superstars in the NBA any given year in your opinion?
Pretty liberal with that term, don't you think?

I'm not even going to play this game, I don't make lists, but I do consider JJ a top 10 player and most stars on consistant playoff teams to be "stars", I actually don't usually use the term superstar but consider the best players in the nba to usually be sg's/sf's so I think those position have deeper star power than centers and even pf's in this day and age.

Matrix3132
11-28-2010, 05:53 PM
have you met Chronz? I think he can fix that opinion of yours regarding McGrady and his playoff "failures"

No man, I just have been a long time nba fan and remember well what it was like watching AI and T-Mac in their primes. Jacking up shot after shot, keep teammates from ever getting the ball and the resentfulness was tangible through the tv, you could see guys going through the motions, knowing their roles to sit back and watch...

Hawkeye15
11-28-2010, 05:56 PM
No man, I just have been a long time nba fan and remember well what it was like watching AI and T-Mac in their primes. Jacking up shot after shot, keep teammates from ever getting the ball and the resentfulness was tangible through the tv, you could see guys going through the motions, knowing their roles to sit back and watch...

McGrady and Iverson don't belong in the same sentence if you are talking peak.

Hawkeye15
11-28-2010, 05:56 PM
I'm not even going to play this game, I don't make lists, but I do consider JJ a top 10 player and most stars on consistant playoff teams to be "stars", I actually don't usually use the term superstar but consider the best players in the nba to usually be sg's/sf's so I think those position have deeper star power than centers and even pf's in this day and age.

if you consider JJ a top 10 player, I wouldn't bother making a list. It will get torn up by PSD

Matrix3132
11-28-2010, 06:17 PM
if you consider JJ a top 10 player, I wouldn't bother making a list. It will get torn up by PSD

Alright, took a look at some lists and JJ wouldn't make my top 10, prob. top 15, my bad, like I said I don't make lists. I got a bit side tracked but my general point was that a lot of people act like there can only be x amount of stars and get offended when guys they don't think are stars make big money. Personally, I don't think the hawks should've offered him that much but someone else would've offered less but still relatively the same amount and maybe if he was in chi with rose or nyc with amare and putting up last years numbers, people would be saying it was the steal of the offseason.

JordansBulls
11-28-2010, 06:39 PM
Joe Johnson's contract is bad if we for the type of player he is supposed to be.

Hawkeye15
11-28-2010, 07:08 PM
Alright, took a look at some lists and JJ wouldn't make my top 10, prob. top 15, my bad, like I said I don't make lists. I got a bit side tracked but my general point was that a lot of people act like there can only be x amount of stars and get offended when guys they don't think are stars make big money. Personally, I don't think the hawks should've offered him that much but someone else would've offered less but still relatively the same amount and maybe if he was in chi with rose or nyc with amare and putting up last years numbers, people would be saying it was the steal of the offseason.

except for the last statement, I kinda line up with your opinion.

drobe86
11-28-2010, 07:24 PM
Joe Johnson is a bona fide star. Dude took the Hawks from 13 wins to 50.... I don't know what else you want him to do...

Hawkeye15
11-28-2010, 07:51 PM
Joe Johnson is a bona fide star. Dude took the Hawks from 13 wins to 50.... I don't know what else you want him to do...

totally. Cause in the 4 years it took for them to climb, there were no additions to the roster. Josh Smith, Mike Bibby, Al Horford, Marvin Williams, and the rest of the gang didn't contribute anything

blahblahyoutoo
11-28-2010, 07:56 PM
Well sign the Mavs up, and we'll show you how good this guy is. JJ is a top 10 player in the NBA and I'm sticking with it....

sorry man, but you're delusional.
i'd feel guilty for putting him in the top 20.
easily one of the worst contracts in the league.

drobe86
11-28-2010, 08:00 PM
totally. Cause in the 4 years it took for them to climb, there were no additions to the roster. Josh Smith, Mike Bibby, Al Horford, Marvin Williams, and the rest of the gang didn't contribute anything


Marvin Williams is and has been a BUST since day 1. Mike Bibby? Dude hasn't been a factor in an NBA since Sacramento. Josh Smith is a great defensive player but gives you nothing offensively. He's great in transition nonetheless but a guy in the halfcourt. Al Horford is solid I'll give you that....

Hawkeye15
11-28-2010, 08:04 PM
Marvin Williams is and has been a BUST since day 1. Mike Bibby? Dude hasn't been a factor in an NBA since Sacramento. Josh Smith is a great defensive player but gives you nothing offensively. He's great in transition nonetheless but a guy in the halfcourt. Al Horford is solid I'll give you that....

I don't need you to give me anything. You are crediting Joe Johnson for taking 4 years to lead a team to a 37 game improvement. That is called TEAM DEVELOPMENT.
And Bibby has saved their butts countless times. I don't even feel like breaking down the progression of the Hawks for you, you won't absorb my post regardless.

You seem to get things in your mind, then no matter how much evidence is presented to you, its all rhetoric, or telling me, "you are better than that".

Joe Johnson would be hard pressed to make my top 20 list. And any player who is not considered a top 20 player, and is being paid $120 million over the next 6 years when they haven't proven they can lead a team to anything important, is a bad contract.

drobe86
11-28-2010, 08:09 PM
I don't need you to give me anything. You are crediting Joe Johnson for taking 4 years to lead a team to a 37 game improvement. That is called TEAM DEVELOPMENT.
And Bibby has saved their butts countless times. I don't even feel like breaking down the progression of the Hawks for you, you won't absorb my post regardless.

You seem to get things in your mind, then no matter how much evidence is presented to you, its all rhetoric, or telling me, "you are better than that".

Joe Johnson would be hard pressed to make my top 20 list. And any player who is not considered a top 20 player, and is being paid $120 million over the next 6 years when they haven't proven they can lead a team to anything important, is a bad contract.



So tell me my description of the 4 hawks players you named were wrong. Bibby isn't an all star and has never been so what makes him good? Smith hasn't either, sure he's exciting but there's nothing elite about him. I'm sure I won't absorb your post cause most of it is OPINION. every one has one, but for some reason you think that yours only matters...

drobe86
11-28-2010, 08:10 PM
I don't need you to give me anything. You are crediting Joe Johnson for taking 4 years to lead a team to a 37 game improvement. That is called TEAM DEVELOPMENT.
And Bibby has saved their butts countless times. I don't even feel like breaking down the progression of the Hawks for you, you won't absorb my post regardless.

You seem to get things in your mind, then no matter how much evidence is presented to you, its all rhetoric, or telling me, "you are better than that".

Joe Johnson would be hard pressed to make my top 20 list. And any player who is not considered a top 20 player, and is being paid $120 million over the next 6 years when they haven't proven they can lead a team to anything important, is a bad contract.


And you really should slap yourself for naming Marvin Williams as having anything to do with the hawks success. dude is straight up garbage and should be on the list for top 10 nba busts of all time..

Mplsman
11-28-2010, 08:31 PM
Pretty bad contract imo.

Sixerlover
11-28-2010, 10:09 PM
I now pronounce Joe Johnson in the top 5 worst contracts in the NBA.

blahblahyoutoo
11-28-2010, 10:13 PM
So tell me my description of the 4 hawks players you named were wrong. Bibby isn't an all star and has never been so what makes him good? Smith hasn't either, sure he's exciting but there's nothing elite about him. I'm sure I won't absorb your post cause most of it is OPINION. every one has one, but for some reason you think that yours only matters...

because only all-stars (that are voted in by fans on the internet and limited to 12 per team) can contribute and be "good".

and everyone else in this thread seems to agree that JJ is not worth his contract, except you.
pot, meet kettle.

drobe86
11-28-2010, 10:17 PM
because only all-stars (that are voted in by fans on the internet and limited to 12 per team) can contribute and be "good".

and everyone else in this thread seems to agree that JJ is not worth his contract, except you.
pot, meet kettle.

Thats fine... But heres the thing: JJ would have gotten a max deal from mulitple teams if he didn't reup with the Hawks. And I'm pretty sure NBA gms know a little bit more about talent than you and I do. You know?

blahblahyoutoo
11-28-2010, 10:22 PM
Thats fine... But heres the thing: JJ would have gotten a max deal from mulitple teams if he didn't reup with the Hawks. And I'm pretty sure NBA gms know a little bit more about talent than you and I do. You know?

lol, i cannot begin to list all the bad deals made by GM's who wish they hadn't.
GM's never make bad decisions right?
i'm a NY fan and I have 2 words. Isiah and Thomas.

i guess we'll just agree to disagree.

numba1CHANGsta
11-28-2010, 10:29 PM
Joe Johnson is one of those players that plays out of their minds on contract year and then when they get a huge pay day, they just disappear, its dumb! why cant players just play every year like its a contract year! lol

knicksfan42
11-28-2010, 11:20 PM
So tell me my description of the 4 hawks players you named were wrong. Bibby isn't an all star and has never been so what makes him good? Smith hasn't either, sure he's exciting but there's nothing elite about him. I'm sure I won't absorb your post cause most of it is OPINION. every one has one, but for some reason you think that yours only matters...

How many Pistons were all-stars when they won the championship in 2004? One, Ben Wallace, though Rasheed Wallace was an all-star in previous years.

Bibby may not be great now, but was very good when he played in Sacramento.

Being an All-Star doesn't (always) determine if a player is good or not. Iverson was an All-Star last year, what does that mean?

knicksfan42
11-28-2010, 11:34 PM
Thats fine... But heres the thing: JJ would have gotten a max deal from mulitple teams if he didn't reup with the Hawks.

Which teams would have given 29 year old, 1 time All-NBA Third team selection Joe Johnson a 6 year 120 million dollar contract.



And I'm pretty sure NBA gms know a little bit more about talent than you and I do. You know?

Do bad contracts exist in the NBA?

Hawkeye15
11-28-2010, 11:40 PM
Which teams would have given 29 year old, 1 time All-NBA Third team selection Joe Johnson a 6 year 120 million dollar contract.



Do bad contracts exist in the NBA?

the Hawks

Yes

drobe86
11-28-2010, 11:43 PM
Joe was going to get the max or really close to it from Miami, Chi, NY, or NJ if he didn't reup with the Hawks. JJ is a baller, sure he's gotten off to a slow start but theres alot of games left and he will lead the hawks into the playoffs like he always does..

Hawkeye15
11-28-2010, 11:46 PM
Joe was going to get the max or really close to it from Miami, Chi, NY, or NJ if he didn't reup with the Hawks. JJ is a baller, sure he's gotten off to a slow start but theres alot of games left and he will lead the hawks into the playoffs like he always does..

to get killed by a team with a real superstar

Vampirate
11-29-2010, 12:18 AM
To illustrate how bad Joe Johnson's contract really is I bet most if not all people here would rather have Andrea Bargnarni with his contact at his position than have Joe Johnson with his contract at his position.

PS: I'm a Raptor fan but I know what people outside Toronto think of Bargs.

Lets see if my statement stays true.

AIRMAR72
11-30-2010, 03:43 PM
Joe Johnson is a bona fide star. Dude took the Hawks from 13 wins to 50.... I don't know what else you want him to do...
dude your crazy for typing that rubbish joel johnson need to thank and worship the ground steve nash walks he was drafted by boston did nothing there than traded to da suns were nash was able to get him easy shots nite after nite he hasnt been the same player since HE got with da hawks hes just too slow and predictable poor ball handle skills IQ is below average cant create is own shot if you dont set him screen for he cant score MODERN DAY ALLAN HOUSTON

TopsyTurvy
11-30-2010, 03:57 PM
He's not trade-able. The organization sold their soul for a year or two of relevancy and now has to deal with Johnson's declining (yet still quality) performance. He will still be one of the better players at his position, but the franchise will regret his contract as years go by.

Tony_Starks
11-30-2010, 05:49 PM
Worth every penny. He's the face of the franchise. Before he got there they were a laughing stock, now they're at least respectable. Yes he was overpaid but Im sure they would much rather continue to have 50 win seasons and making noise in the playoffs as opposed to going back into obscurity.....

If I were them I'd try to swing a deal for ZBo. Thats all they're missing is a legit back to the basket Big......

Hawkeye15
11-30-2010, 05:52 PM
Worth every penny. He's the face of the franchise. Before he got there they were a laughing stock, now they're at least respectable. Yes he was overpaid but Im sure they would much rather continue to have 50 win seasons and making noise in the playoffs as opposed to going back into obscurity.....

If I were them I'd try to swing a deal for ZBo. Thats all they're missing is a legit back to the basket Big......

as a Wolves fan who watched a monster deal give us 50 wins only to be dead meat in the playoffs, I would prefer they DIDN'T give deals like that to Joe Johnson. He isn't leading them past anyone important anytime soon.
The point is, if NY was going to pay him that, let him walk. With Horford in place, and the financial flexibility they would have going forward, they wouldn't be on bottom for long.

drobe86
11-30-2010, 11:16 PM
as a Wolves fan who watched a monster deal give us 50 wins only to be dead meat in the playoffs, I would prefer they DIDN'T give deals like that to Joe Johnson. He isn't leading them past anyone important anytime soon.
The point is, if NY was going to pay him that, let him walk. With Horford in place, and the financial flexibility they would have going forward, they wouldn't be on bottom for long.


Hawkeye I actually see your point here. But here's the thing, nobody wants to go back to the bottom. Sure the Hawks aren't in position to make any moves, but there at least a 45-50 win team RIGHT NOW with Joe Johnson. I'll take 4th in the EAST with an opportunity to make something happen in the playoffs rather than a 26-30 win team. You can have all the financial flexibility in the world, if you don't do anything with it what's the point in having it?

Guest
12-01-2010, 03:11 AM
Hawks should blow it up for the Magic's sake. Trade them JJ, Josh Smith, and M. Williams for Carter and Lewis.

Nelson
Johnson
M. Williams
Josh Smith
Howard

championship