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Bornknick73
11-27-2010, 11:34 AM
MIAMI
For years, the world has called LeBron James many things: The Chosen One. The King. The next Michael Jordan. A glorious hybrid of His Airness and Magic.

But about 80 minutes before the Heat beat the 76ers 99-90 in an uninspired effort Friday, young King James said something that conjured a wholly different, less-flattering and increasingly possible comparison:


That James, with his transcendent talent and unique inability to give his team what it needs, actually could become the next Wilt Chamberlain.

All this struck home with Philadelphia in town, with its 3-12 record (before Friday’s loss) and the ghost of Chamberlain, its Chosen One, haunting what it once was and what it is today.

And then that quote, the one that followed the question about whether LeBron and Dwyane Wade need to change their games.

“No, I can’t change my game dramatically and I don’t think he can either,” LeBron said. “It doesn’t make any sense to do that. I’m not going to.” He paused. “I’d just be a role player at that point.”

Oh, LeBron.

Among those in the know, there are whispers about LeBron. That pressure cripples him just as surely as it brings out the best in Kobe and, before Kobe, Jordan and Bird.

That LeBron, despite his protestations, loves his stats. So much so that when a triple-double is on the line, he will shift to whatever mode he must to reach it — be it that of the rebounder, the passer or the scorer.

That he rests on his awards and his numbers with an uneasy insouciance because there is no championship to give him the calm dignity of a Jordan, Russell, Magic or Bird.

It is true LeBron has a long career ahead of him. There are many years for him to right the ship and set a course to be more like those men.

He might well, in time, learn that he must change his game (as Magic did in developing his play in the paint, as Jordan did with his defense) in order to be counted in their company.

But based on LeBron’s own comments Friday about not changing — despite the need for it so clearly illustrated in the Heat’s early struggles — it doesn’t seem that’ll happen any time soon.

If it doesn’t, that could leave him as the heir-apparent to Wilt, not Mike.

Wilt, like LeBron, was a once-in-a-generation talent. And, because he so misused that talent, a once-in-a-generation man of missed opportunities.

Chamberlain was a four-time MVP. A 13-time All-Star. A seven-time scoring champion and a 13-time rebounding champion. Chamberlain averaged 50.4 points per game during the 1961-62 season.

I mean, wow.

And yet he won only two championships, with many, many more opportunities sliding off a 7-1 frame filled with immense talent but not the mettle to handle such moments.

During a stretch in which there were no more than 17 teams.


Which means he better get to it.

Wilt’s first championship came in his eighth season with the Philadelphia Warriors.

This, too, happens to be LeBron’s eighth season.

In The Book of Basketball, Bill Simmons, The Sports Guy, correctly takes on the myth that, but for a little luck or a few key plays, Wilt would have won nearly as many championships (11) as his nemesis, Bill Russell.

Ah, no.

As The Sports Guy writes, the difference actually came down to one thing: The man was not a winner.

“He just didn't get it,” The Sports Guy wrote. “Wilt never understood how to win; if anything losing fit his personality better.”

Sound familiar?

As Simmons notes, NBA greats devoted parts of their memoirs to explaining the gulf between Wilt's ability and Wilt’s success. Simmons himself devotes many pages of his book to this fact.

Years from now, in a later edition perhaps, The Sports Guy might well tackle a similar theme in assessing LeBron’s career.


A spoof of LeBron’s “What Should I Do?” commercial hit the web today, this one with a Michael Jordan bent.

But there’s wisdom there, too, in the fake ad. Words LeBron would be well to hear.

Words Wilt, in his time, would have been well to hear too.

“Maybe it’s my own fault,” Fake Jordan intones. “Maybe I led you to believe it was easy when it wasn’t. Maybe I made you think my highlights started at the free-throw line and not in the gym…

“Maybe I made you think every shot I took was a game winner … That my game was built on flash and not fire…

“Maybe it’s my fault that you didn’t see that failure gave me strength, that my pain was my motivation … Maybe I led you to believe that basketball was a God-given gift and not something to work for.”

A shame Fake Jordan didn’t throw in: “Maybe I led you to believe the gaudiness of stats and awards somehow trumped the beautiful brutality of what it takes to be a champion.”

Both LeBron and Wilt had an unfortunate ease with how they rationalized away their own failures, carrying themselves in down times as if they weren’t in fact the greatest players on their teams, let alone the league (Remember LeBron saying last year he spoiled everyone with his play?).

In Simmons’ book, he writes forcefully about how Chamberlain allowed his gaudy numbers to be a balm for his lack of bling.

The only accomplishments that must matter — at least to the rare player who enters the discussion of greatest of all time — are championships.

Those many banners that hang from rafters in Chicago and Los Angeles and Boston signify more than winning.

They are, particularly in the cases of back-to-back-to-back champions, markers of a time and place where incredible talent, willpower and heart merged to create something beautiful.

For Chamberlain, this kind of accomplishment happened too infrequently.

For LeBron, it has not happened at all.

LeBron, in Miami now and Cleveland in the past, has struggled to win at key times for the same reasons Chamberlain did: A love of stats over a higher glory. A tendency to let pressure take away his skill rather than enhance it. A selfishness that has meant a lifetime not developing a much-needed post game. A cluelessness that led him to say changing his game would make him a “role player.”

Oh, LeBron.

In the “Book of Basketball,” The Sports Guy quotes Chuck Klosterman, another deep basketball thinker.

Here, Klosterman writes about Wilt. But close your eyes and listen to the words and try to tell me LeBron doesn’t instantly spring to mind.

That LeBron, if he does not course-correct by doing the hard things and embracing the selfless ones, isn’t dangerously on his way to becoming Wilt Chamberlain.

“Wilt Chamberlain is the archetype of a tragic figure — widely criticized, universally unappreciated, self-destructive coach-killer who happens to be the greatest tangible basketball player of all time,” Klosterman writes.

LeBron has already killed two coaches, Paul Silas and Mike Brown. Erik Spoelstra is most certainly in the hospital right now, with no guarantees LeBron won’t finish him off soon.

The King and the Man Who Scored 100 Points also shared a deep and consequential lack of self-awareness.

LeBron is unable to help himself because he keeps trying to convince himself he needs no help — not on the court (Changing makes me a role player), not with the public (What should I do?), not in his interactions with his coaches (too many minutes!), not with grasping the reality of what it takes to rise above pressure and obstacles (We just need to have fun).

Wilt's lack of self-awareness unwittingly made him a punch line after he bragged about sleeping with 20,000 women. Plus, he was one of the few high-profile African-American athletes in the 1960s to play no role — to say the least — in the civil-rights movement.

On Friday, after the Heat’s win lifted this collection of stunning talent to a meager 9-7 record, the greatest tangible basketball player of this era walked to the microphone while humming a tune.

This Philadelphia team was just the kind of team Chamberlain would have feasted on and, like Wilt, LeBron racked up his numbers: 20 points, eight rebounds, six assists.

Yet all game a passion — a winner’s killer instinct — had been missing. LeBron, sitting at the podium, taciturn, gave off a clear vibe he knew it.

“Guys,” LeBron said, an excuse on his lips, “just get up to play us. Every time they are going against us, somebody has a season high. Jodie Meeks was a season high at halftime. You just have to treat everybody like they are all stars because everybody plays up … even higher than their abilities on the court.”

Yes, the ghost of Wilt Chamberlain seemed all too present.

Perhaps Pat Riley himself has considered this analogy as well, since he played with Wilt on one championship team and is now banking on LeBron to deliver another.

If so, one wonders if Riley has a plan — for himself or Spoelstra — designed to steer LeBron’s legacy toward a better ending than the one Wilt ended his own career with.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/lebron-james-the-next-jordan%3F-more-like-wilt-chamberlain

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 11:42 AM
“No, I can’t change my game dramatically and I don’t think he can either,” LeBron said. “It doesn’t make any sense to do that. I’m not going to.” He paused. “I’d just be a role player at that point.”


how does this mean he is only talking about his stats? he is saying he will not stop being aggressive. He will not change his game and take a back seat, or he will be wasting his ability.

Another writer who was angry over "the decision". Who cares

MackSnackWrap
11-27-2010, 12:16 PM
how does this mean he is only talking about his stats? he is saying he will not stop being aggressive. He will not change his game and take a back seat, or he will be wasting his ability.

Another writer who was angry over "the decision". Who cares

exactly lOL:clap:

JasonJohnHorn
11-27-2010, 12:24 PM
LBJ has more often been compared to Oscar Robertson than the others mentioned. Interesting read though problematic at times. Still, some interesting points.

lvlheaded
11-27-2010, 12:54 PM
The Jordan commercial was pretty good, I think it is very true that LeBron can compare to Wilt in the sense that his talent should translate into titles but instead is resulting in missed opportunities

Hellcrooner
11-27-2010, 12:54 PM
Dr Julius Erving was the king of the Nba was hand down the best individual player, he made a bit of everything and made his teamates better but somehow his fire was kinda missing.
He ended up joining a mega team With Maurice Cheeks, Bobby Jones and George Mcginnis that failed Twice to get the title vs Blazers and Lakers when they should have won given their talent.
The team made one more twist and added Moses Malone.
then he had his LONELY title.

That sounds more like Lebron than Wilts Story

Minimal
11-27-2010, 12:57 PM
LBJ has more often been compared to Oscar Robertson than the others mentioned. Interesting read though problematic at times. Still, some interesting points.
+1

If LeBron can be compared to someone right now that would be Oscar Robertson. They both dominated the league. Big O won only one championship, LeBron doesn't have one yet. Oscar is the most underrated player of all time, just because he won only 1 championship. Same can happen to LeBron.

This article is ********.

tredigs
11-27-2010, 01:02 PM
When did Lebron even say that? "No, I can't change my dramatically game and I don't think Wade can either. Then I'd just be a role player". I could understand the point, but I'd like to hear its context.

This author doesn't link or say where it came from, and Google shows up with nothing but this very article. Is he lying?

If someone does know where it came from, can they please link it. Quotes are 100% useless without the full context.

Beyond that, this guy is jumping to conclusions and trying to write Lebron's entire legacy before he turns the age of 25 or has even 1 month to gel with his brand new (admittedly unbalanced) squad? Shut up for a year and let them work, dude.

m26555
11-27-2010, 01:02 PM
how does this mean he is only talking about his stats? he is saying he will not stop being aggressive. He will not change his game and take a back seat, or he will be wasting his ability.

Another writer who was angry over "the decision". Who cares
Sorry, but when you're playing with another superstar wing with the same capabilities as yourself (Wade), you have to change your game. LeBron can't do what he did in Cleveland where everyone would stand around and watch while he tried to go off for 40 every night. He has to adapt his game to his surroundings, something that all great players should be able to do. I'm not saying he should drastically change his game, but he should certainly alter some aspects of it.

sep11ie
11-27-2010, 01:06 PM
This is starting to remind me of the South Park about Brittany Spears.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 01:15 PM
Sorry, but when you're playing with another superstar wing with the same capabilities as yourself (Wade), you have to change your game. LeBron can't do what he did in Cleveland where everyone would stand around and watch while he tried to go off for 40 every night. He has to adapt his game to his surroundings, something that all great players should be able to do. I'm not saying he should drastically change his game, but he should certainly alter some aspects of it.

sure. But like you said, no drastic changes need to be made.

kntresistheheat
11-27-2010, 01:44 PM
Sorry, but when you're playing with another superstar wing with the same capabilities as yourself (Wade), you have to change your game. LeBron can't do what he did in Cleveland where everyone would stand around and watch while he tried to go off for 40 every night. He has to adapt his game to his surroundings, something that all great players should be able to do. I'm not saying he should drastically change his game, but he should certainly alter some aspects of it.



Why??? Did Jordan/Pippen Change their game??? They used their capabilities to the max, the only difference was they learned how to use it together. Pippen coming in did not know what his role was going to be. Until he realized that Jordan was the man and they would be able to compliment each other game. At the end of the day, they needed each other TALENTS to accomplish those 6 rings. Its a work in progress.

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-27-2010, 01:54 PM
sure. But like you said, no drastic changes need to be made.

Well something or someone is going to need to change, and change a lot. Have you seen the Heat offense? Its like they take turns trying to get stats. Run iso for Lebron while Wade stands in the corner, next time down the floor run iso for Wade while Lebron stands at the top of the 3pt line. They do that for 6 to 7 possesions in a row before they let Bosh run an iso of his own. Then back to the iso game between Lebron and Wade.

When are they going to learn that a predominantly pick and role offense will never win a championship. It will get the ball handler big numbers in the regular season, as well as the pick man, but gets shut down come playoff time against good defenses. Look at Stockton/Malone, DWilliams/Boozer/Jefferson, Nash/Amare, Chris Paul/West/Okafor, Lebron/the 3 point shooters. (He always outlets to the corner 3 man) Not one of those teams got a ring out of that offense. It makes player look awesome in the regular season when teams dont have a chance to prepare for thier opponents sets and tendencies. But at one time or another, pick and roll or pick and pop offenses get picked apart.

Lebron or Bosh need to play in the post. Spolstra either has to learn to run plays, or he needs to go. Wade is going to need to learn how to make a basket further than 5 feet away from the rim, and Lebron and Wade are going to have to learn to give the ball to their most efficient scorer who is Bosh. I would say there are a lot of changes to be made.

Storch
11-27-2010, 02:02 PM
This is just another article to spotlight lebron as the anti-hero and Lebron justifying it with bonehead responses. He really needs a better PR coach. Other than that, just take everything in this article with a grain of salt because no matter what everyone says Lebron is a great player, and so was wilt.

SpeeMN
11-27-2010, 02:30 PM
Lebron is built on Hype. I for one agree with the article, it perfectly describes what I've always felt about him. Its like he expects to be given a ring, and its everyone else' fault when he doesn't win. Who said he had to become a role player if he changes his game? ONLY Lebron. He could change his game so the offense flows THROUGH him and not INTO him.
Some people live life looking out (for others), Others live life looking in (at themselves).

Hiphopopotamus
11-27-2010, 02:45 PM
I love all the LBJ apologists. So funny, the man is who he is. Deal with it. He is a fantastic talent who, unfortunately, cares more about his role and his game more than wins. This is evident in his comment. If he wants to win with this team then he HAS to change his game. He and Wade cannot continue to simply take turns with the ball. They have to meld and that will require sacrifice and change. The Heat can be amazing if they do this, but they have to be willing.

Chacarron
11-27-2010, 02:48 PM
Why??? Did Jordan/Pippen Change their game??? They used their capabilities to the max, the only difference was they learned how to use it together. Pippen coming in did not know what his role was going to be. Until he realized that Jordan was the man and they would be able to compliment each other game. At the end of the day, they needed each other TALENTS to accomplish those 6 rings. Its a work in progress.

One thing is different. Pippen was a monster on the defensive end and had a great coach in Phil Jackson to keep him and Jordan on board and accept their roles. Neither Lebron nor Wade have the will to take a lesser role and become a second option. In my opinion, Lebron should not change his game drastically but become a better defender because he has all the tools to become a very good one.

adidas2307
11-27-2010, 02:55 PM
This is for you LeBron:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph6HCjM-t-0

Ty Fast
11-27-2010, 03:03 PM
i would say he is more like magic

Draco
11-27-2010, 03:19 PM
Well something or someone is going to need to change, and change a lot. Have you seen the Heat offense? Its like they take turns trying to get stats. Run iso for Lebron while Wade stands in the corner, next time down the floor run iso for Wade while Lebron stands at the top of the 3pt line. They do that for 6 to 7 possesions in a row before they let Bosh run an iso of his own. Then back to the iso game between Lebron and Wade.

When are they going to learn that a predominantly pick and role offense will never win a championship. It will get the ball handler big numbers in the regular season, as well as the pick man, but gets shut down come playoff time against good defenses. Look at Stockton/Malone, DWilliams/Boozer/Jefferson, Nash/Amare, Chris Paul/West/Okafor, Lebron/the 3 point shooters. (He always outlets to the corner 3 man) Not one of those teams got a ring out of that offense. It makes player look awesome in the regular season when teams dont have a chance to prepare for thier opponents sets and tendencies. But at one time or another, pick and roll or pick and pop offenses get picked apart.

Lebron or Bosh need to play in the post. Spolstra either has to learn to run plays, or he needs to go. Wade is going to need to learn how to make a basket further than 5 feet away from the rim, and Lebron and Wade are going to have to learn to give the ball to their most efficient scorer who is Bosh. I would say there are a lot of changes to be made.

Good post.

Draco
11-27-2010, 03:24 PM
“No, I can’t change my game dramatically and I don’t think he can either,” LeBron said. “It doesn’t make any sense to do that. I’m not going to.” He paused. “I’d just be a role player at that point.”

yeah.. it would have been nice to know what question prompted this answer because offhand this sounds like loser-talk.

tredigs
11-27-2010, 03:30 PM
yeah.. it would have been nice to know what question prompted this answer because offhand this sounds like loser-talk.

I'd like to see proof that the statement was even made first of all. I never heard it on the news, and so far have only seen this article directly quote it (along with a dozen other forums that are now copy/pasting the same article), and he offered no link.

But yes, if it was said, the context needs to be given. That's 99% of any quote. And certain blurbs can be taken to mean 100 different things depending on the authors message (in this case, to blatantly feed the 'bash Lebron' stance).

But until proven (I already asked in here... did ANYONE see this statement made?), at this point it has to be considered a lie.

Minimal
11-27-2010, 03:37 PM
This is for you LeBron:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph6HCjM-t-0

What it got to do with this thread?:crazy:

Draco
11-27-2010, 03:38 PM
I'd like to see proof that the statement was even made first of all. I never heard it on the news, and so far have only seen this article directly quote it (along with a dozen other forums that are now copy/pasting the same article).

But yes, if it was said, the context needs to be given. That's 99% of any quote. And certain blurbs can be taken to mean 100 different things depending on the authors message (in this case, to blatantly feed the 'bash Lebron' stance).

But until proven (I already asked in here... did ANYONE see this statement made?), at this point it has to be considered a lie.

The proof will be in the pudding.

Raph12
11-27-2010, 03:39 PM
I'm so done with the Lebron-thing, GET OVER IT PEOPLE!!!

kntresistheheat
11-27-2010, 03:41 PM
One thing is different. Pippen was a monster on the defensive end and had a great coach in Phil Jackson to keep him and Jordan on board and accept their roles. Neither Lebron nor Wade have the will to take a lesser role and become a second option. In my opinion, Lebron should not change his game drastically but become a better defender because he has all the tools to become a very good one.


And that is where the problem is, Our coach can not figure that out! We need a HOF coach for these type of players.

tredigs
11-27-2010, 03:43 PM
The proof will be in the pudding.

Haha... uh, no. That's not how libel (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/libel) works dude.

He either said it or he didn't. And if he did, I want to see the context (as should anyone who isn't 100% set in their beliefs and unwilling to hear the other side).

adidas2307
11-27-2010, 03:52 PM
What it got to do with this thread?:crazy:

"Winning gets you everything in this league"
"I'm not worrying about no triple-doubles"
Etc..

abe_froman
11-27-2010, 03:56 PM
good article and it is a pretty apt comparison

llemon
11-27-2010, 03:58 PM
Wilt changed his game considerably to win a Title with Sixers, and changed it again to win a Title with the Lakers.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 04:00 PM
Wilt changed his game considerably to win a Title with Sixers, and changed it again to win a Title with the Lakers.

what do you mean? I wasn't old enough to watch Wilt. Curious what changes he made in your eyes.

Cubs Win
11-27-2010, 04:01 PM
This is for you LeBron:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph6HCjM-t-0

:clap:

It seems like LeBron could learn from D-Rose. I'm not arguing that Rose is a better player but I don't think it's even arguable that he has a better attitude towards the game and that is to win at all costs.

Back to the thread though, I can sort of see the Wilt comparison, but I do agree that Oscar Robertson would probably be a better comparison.

jackdawson
11-27-2010, 04:08 PM
LeBron James = The name that converts a lot of PSD members' sexuality from heterosexual to homosexual. Haters get orgasm every time they see his name.

llemon
11-27-2010, 04:13 PM
what do you mean? I wasn't old enough to watch Wilt. Curious what changes he made in your eyes.

Went to Sixers, where he took less and better shots (Wilt shot 68% in Sixers Title season), and became a passer, with the offense running through him (averaged over 7 apg in the Title season and over 8 apg the next season).

Went to Lakers, where he shot even less, and the offense wasn't run through him, but concentrated on defense, where he was spectacular.

And throughout his career, he was a natural-born rebounder.

HakeemTheDream
11-27-2010, 04:15 PM
Wilt was vicious, he was one of the nastiest guys in the NBA throwing elbows at anyone who dared to try stop him. Wilt also wasn't scared to play a lot of minutes, he averaged 46 minutes for his career. Lebron whines if he plays 44 minutes in one game, he will never have heart like Wilt.

Sixerlover
11-27-2010, 04:18 PM
EDIT - Nevermind I won't even start.

asandhu23
11-27-2010, 04:20 PM
Please don't insult Wilt. He was not a media whore like LeBron.

Draco
11-27-2010, 04:26 PM
Haha... uh, no. That's not how libel (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/libel) works dude.

He either said it or he didn't. And if he did, I want to see the context (as should anyone who isn't 100% set in their beliefs and unwilling to hear the other side).

Gee, thanks for the link. I don't care much what Lebron said but whether he changes aspects of his game to help his team succeed will be evident as the season continues.

llemon
11-27-2010, 04:46 PM
Wilt was vicious, he was one of the nastiest guys in the NBA throwing elbows at anyone who dared to try stop him. Wilt also wasn't scared to play a lot of minutes, he averaged 46 minutes for his career. Lebron whines if he plays 44 minutes in one game, he will never have heart like Wilt.

Wilt was not vicious, nasty, nor did he play with heart.

Truth is, Wilt was one of the biggest dogs to ever play in the NBA.

But he was able to turn it up a notch a few times to win two Titles, and come close on a few other occasions.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 04:48 PM
Went to Sixers, where he took less and better shots (Wilt shot 68% in Sixers Title season), and became a passer, with the offense running through him (averaged over 7 apg in the Title season and over 8 apg the next season).

Went to Lakers, where he shot even less, and the offense wasn't run through him, but concentrated on defense, where he was spectacular.

And throughout his career, he was a natural-born rebounder.

thanks for the response.

abe_froman
11-27-2010, 04:51 PM
what do you mean? I wasn't old enough to watch Wilt. Curious what changes he made in your eyes.

for most of his career he was a one man show(and abit of a stat stuffer),when he forced the trade to philly he played a more team game,in the flow.he still didnt have the killer instinct but he played better and the team was so ridiculously stacked that he didnt need to have it for them to win

with la he concentrated more on defense,allowing west to be leader where he would be a good little robin

Chronz
11-27-2010, 04:58 PM
for most of his career he was a one man show(and abit of a stat stuffer),when he forced the trade to philly he played a more team game,in the flow.he still didnt have the killer instinct but he played better and the team was so ridiculously stacked that he didnt need to have it for them to win

with la he concentrated more on defense,allowing west to be leader where he would be a good little robin
Wilt allowed West to be the natural leader he was because he didnt have it in him, though he maintained his own leading by actions routine, but I dont recall reading or hearing anything about Wilt stepping down from a importance standpoint. The term robbin implies lower stature, being further down the pecking line of adulation from success. But Wilt was every bit as important as West, even winning Finals MVP with him. Im not sure of the rankings by the press at the time but I dont think West was ever seen as clearly more important.


Please don't insult Wilt. He was not a media whore like LeBron.
How can we know that? With the internet, every word ever spoken can be scrutinized more than ever before.

HakeemTheDream
11-27-2010, 05:03 PM
Wilt was not vicious, nasty, nor did he play with heart.

Truth is, Wilt was one of the biggest dogs to ever play in the NBA.

But he was able to turn it up a notch a few times to win two Titles, and come close on a few other occasions.

That's not what I heard, I've spoken to old school dudes about him and I was told he was a little dirty and he was protected by the media. This article says similar things except not as nice as the way I put it http://community.foxsports.com/dustylaker/blog/2006/12/09/THE_TRUTH_ABOUT_WILT_CHAMBERLAIN_AND_IT_AINT_GOOD

llemon
11-27-2010, 05:11 PM
That's not what I heard, I've spoken to old school dudes about him and I was told he was a little dirty and he was protected by the media. This article says similar things except not as nice as the way I put it http://community.foxsports.com/dustylaker/blog/2006/12/09/THE_TRUTH_ABOUT_WILT_CHAMBERLAIN_AND_IT_AINT_GOOD

That article is filled with lies.

HakeemTheDream
11-27-2010, 05:32 PM
I doubt many people here actually watched Wilt play, but I'm still pretty sure Wilt's heart > Lebron's heart. Anyone who can play 44 minutes with complaints > Lebron's heart

llemon
11-27-2010, 05:38 PM
I doubt many people here actually watched Wilt play, but I'm still pretty sure Wilt's heart > Lebron's heart. Anyone who can play 44 minutes with complaints > Lebron's heart

I watched Wilt from 1962 on.

I'm not sure how much heart Lebron plays with, but I can tell you that Wilt didn't have much heart when it came to the game of basketball.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 05:39 PM
I watched Wilt from 1962 on.

I'm not sure how much heart Lebron plays with, but I can tell you that Wilt didn't have much heart when it came to the game of basketball.

dude, I am old as crap for this site at 35. I wouldn't take most people's opinions on Wilt with any seriousness.

tredigs
11-27-2010, 05:45 PM
Gee, thanks for the link. I don't care much what Lebron said but whether he changes aspects of his game to help his team succeed will be evident as the season continues.

Lebron went from averaging 21 shots per game in his tenure with the Cavs to a career low 17 a game this year. His USG% is down, and he's attempted to get in the post at some point in nearly every game (something you would rarely ever see in Cleveland). You can continue to blindly hate on him, or you can look at both sides of the coin and actually come to a fair assessment. Up to you.

llemon
11-27-2010, 05:52 PM
dude, I am old as crap for this site at 35. I wouldn't take most people's opinions on Wilt with any seriousness.

The poster HTD posted a link to someone who supposedly watched Chamberlain play, and that someone just lied.

Dunking from the foul line on foul shots? Have you ever heard that mentioned before about Wilt.

And vicious? Some opposing players used to put there hands up into the rim circle to prevent Wilt from dunking, because they knew Wilt didn't want to hurt them.

Hawkeye15
11-27-2010, 06:10 PM
The poster HTD posted a link to someone who supposedly watched Chamberlain play, and that someone just lied.

Dunking from the foul line on foul shots? Have you ever heard that mentioned before about Wilt.

And vicious? Some opposing players used to put there hands up into the rim circle to prevent Wilt from dunking, because they knew Wilt didn't want to hurt them.

oh, I just meant about 2% of PSD would know if it was true or not. You watched him play. You do know what is true, and what isnt about Wilt

Draco
11-27-2010, 06:22 PM
Lebron went from averaging 21 shots per game in his tenure with the Cavs to a career low 17 a game this year. His USG% is down, and he's attempted to get in the post at some point in nearly every game (something you would rarely ever see in Cleveland). You can continue to blindly hate on him, or you can look at both sides of the coin and actually come to a fair assessment. Up to you.

Gee, thanks for the fair assessment. :rolleyes:

HakeemTheDream
11-27-2010, 06:25 PM
The poster HTD posted a link to someone who supposedly watched Chamberlain play, and that someone just lied.

Dunking from the foul line on foul shots? Have you ever heard that mentioned before about Wilt.

And vicious? Some opposing players used to put there hands up into the rim circle to prevent Wilt from dunking, because they knew Wilt didn't want to hurt them.

I just remember people telling me Wilt was dirty, but I don't think anyone has ever told me he's vicious so I can believe it if you tell me he wasn't. But dunking from the foul line is something I've heard A LOT of people tell me Wilt did, people most likely older than anyone here, the league changed the foul line rules because of Wilt abusing the loopholes.

kArSoN RyDaH
11-27-2010, 06:41 PM
how does this mean he is only talking about his stats? he is saying he will not stop being aggressive. He will not change his game and take a back seat, or he will be wasting his ability.

Another writer who was angry over "the decision". Who cares


It could mean that he is selfish. A guy who doesn't change his game for the benefit of the team is selfish. Kobe adjusted his game when Pau came. He adjusted his game when Shaq was in town. Great players adjust. He always says he changes his game for no defender. But some of the all time great players STUDY film and adjust their game to the weaknesses of their opponent. Something Lebron doesn't do.

_KB24_
11-27-2010, 06:45 PM
Bush don't like black people :pity:

Sorry, had to let that out after watching it being re-played by Fox News the entire god damn week :laugh2:

Bruno
11-27-2010, 06:59 PM
dr julius erving was the king of the nba was hand down the best individual player, he made a bit of everything and made his teamates better but somehow his fire was kinda missing.
He ended up joining a mega team with maurice cheeks, bobby jones and george mcginnis that failed twice to get the title vs blazers and lakers when they should have won given their talent.
The team made one more twist and added moses malone.
Then he had his lonely title.

That sounds more like lebron than wilts story

kaj?

bklynny67
11-27-2010, 07:25 PM
waay too much to read. i bet no one actually read the whole thing.

llemon
11-27-2010, 08:23 PM
I just remember people telling me Wilt was dirty, but I don't think anyone has ever told me he's vicious so I can believe it if you tell me he wasn't. But dunking from the foul line is something I've heard A LOT of people tell me Wilt did, people most likely older than anyone here, the league changed the foul line rules because of Wilt abusing the loopholes.

Wilt was not a dirty player, and didn't dunk FTs in the NBA.

Did a little research, and the story is dunking from the FT line was something he tried in HS or College practice.

Once word got around, rules were put in to prevent it.

And as for being a dirty player, he was the guy being abused, although often futily.

Wilt threatend to quit after his rookie season due to the beating he was taking.

FYI, Alcindor threatened the same thing after his rookie season.

Chronz
11-27-2010, 08:30 PM
I doubt many people here actually watched Wilt play, but I'm still pretty sure Wilt's heart > Lebron's heart. Anyone who can play 44 minutes with complaints > Lebron's heart

If thats your criteria for measuring heart then it is truly irrelevant

PS This thread was amusing on many levels, and I like the parallels being made, the guy shouldve added the bit about Wilt joining LA to form one of the first super powers on paper.

Chronz
11-27-2010, 08:38 PM
Wilt was not a dirty player, and didn't dunk FTs in the NBA.

Did a little research, and the story is dunking from the FT line was something he tried in HS or College practice.

Once word got around, rules were put in to prevent it.
LOL at the explanation they gave, to prevent freak incidents or something


And as for being a dirty player, he was the guy being abused, although often futily.

Ive read alot of books on Wilt and this is the first Ive read of anyone trying to cast him off as a thuggish brute. But I do agree he wouldve fouled out alot more today

HakeemTheDream
11-27-2010, 09:04 PM
LOL at the explanation they gave, to prevent freak incidents or something


Ive read alot of books on Wilt and this is the first Ive read of anyone trying to cast him off as a thuggish brute. But I do agree he wouldve fouled out alot more today

If you've read books about Wilt then can you tell me if it's true whether or not you read about him dunking his free throws sometimes? I heard that in the 100 point game he went 28 for 32 from the line because he was dunking most his free throws, otherwise there's no way he could make that many since he's a career 50% FT shooter and went from a 61% FT shooter his 3rd year and went as low as 38% from the line in seasons after that. The people who told me about this didn't just read books about him, they actually watched him back then so I'm thinking they were telling the truth. If you look at his FT stats it kinda make sense.

ElMarroAfamado
11-27-2010, 11:17 PM
james is a role player that cant shoot...take the paint away from him an he becomes and average player.....
i dont see why people are so blind to see this and ignore it ...if he could do something besides just dunk and layup maybe he could help his team...Wilt was an all time great and a center that took advantage of his god given gifts...incorrect comparison

bagwell368
11-27-2010, 11:32 PM
Dr Julius Erving was the king of the Nba was hand down the best individual player, he made a bit of everything and made his teamates better but somehow his fire was kinda missing.
He ended up joining a mega team With Maurice Cheeks, Bobby Jones and George Mcginnis that failed Twice to get the title vs Blazers and Lakers when they should have won given their talent.
The team made one more twist and added Moses Malone.
then he had his LONELY title.

That sounds more like Lebron than Wilts Story

Dr. J was never for one minute the best player in the NBA. I saw him play college ball and the ABA before the NBA. Very unique, but not the player in the league. Top 5 a few times - sure.

I do revere that Malone team as probably the best defensive team I've ever seen however.

Bigbadmoffo
11-27-2010, 11:41 PM
This statement is on the money. Lebron will never be Jordan or Kobe and it's not do to a lack of talent. Lebron doesn't play with heart and effort kinda like Wade and Bosh.

Eg714
11-27-2010, 11:45 PM
Hes no Kobe that's for sure

ElMarroAfamado
11-27-2010, 11:47 PM
lebron james is no wilt...
he is more of a corey magette plus the passing ability i guess

Chronz
11-27-2010, 11:51 PM
lebron james is no wilt...
he is more of a corey magette plus the passing ability i guess
Dont forget his All-League Defense, if only Maggette mastered the art of passing the Clippers would have been contenders

Chronz
11-27-2010, 11:56 PM
If you've read books about Wilt then can you tell me if it's true whether or not you read about him dunking his free throws sometimes? I heard that in the 100 point game he went 28 for 32 from the line because he was dunking most his free throws, otherwise there's no way he could make that many since he's a career 50% FT shooter and went from a 61% FT shooter his 3rd year and went as low as 38% from the line in seasons after that. The people who told me about this didn't just read books about him, they actually watched him back then so I'm thinking they were telling the truth. If you look at his FT stats it kinda make sense.
Think about it, why would a guy who could dunk his free throws wait until he wanted to score 100 to do it? It makes no sense, why not just dunk as many free throws as you could?

His FT% displayed alot of variance because he tried all sorts of shooting mechanics, from granny to flick/wrist shots.

Edit) I think I remember hearing because he was the first player who FT shooting limited his incredible offensive game, he was among the first to hire multiple shooting specialists, one of them held a world record I believe.

But if you really wanted to settle the issue just google when the NBA added that rule change. If it was during Wilts playing career then theres a good chance he took advantage of it on occasion but everything Ive read suggests otherwise.

llemon
11-28-2010, 12:43 AM
Ive read alot of books on Wilt and this is the first Ive read of anyone trying to cast him off as a thuggish brute. But I do agree he wouldve fouled out alot more today

In Wilt's case, fouling out a lot more would mean he would foul out at least once.

THE MTL
11-28-2010, 01:02 AM
Iono see how you can knock Wilt Chamberlain for winning ONLY two championships!!! Its two championships ppl! Not many ppl win more than that......you got Bird, Magic, Kareem, Jordan, Russel, Cousy, Duncan, Shaq, and Kobe (who truly won 3+ as the leaders of their team).

Two championships is a fine number to be at. I find this whole argument RIDICULOUS!

If anything it proves how basketball is a team sport and you cannot just have one great individual and expect to win. Chamberlain, as great as he was, needed to get on a STACKED LAKERS squad with Jerry West and Elgin Baylor in order to win (and even then we stopped by the NEW YORK KNICKS a couple times).

THE MTL
11-28-2010, 01:04 AM
Also this championship thing is FAR OVERRATED! If u gonna base everything off of championships....then Robert Horry should be in the discussion as well.

In order to be the best you MUST have a championship....but you must have individual accolades up the @$$ too. MVP's, allstar appearances, All-NBA teams, etc.

Hangtime
11-28-2010, 01:07 AM
Wilt won 2. Oscar Robertson won 1. Jerry West won 1. Elgin Baylor won 0.

Why so much emphasis on Wilt's lack of championships? What about those other great legends?

llemon
11-28-2010, 01:27 AM
If anything it proves how basketball is a team sport and you cannot just have one great individual and expect to win. Chamberlain, as great as he was, needed to get on a STACKED LAKERS squad with Jerry West and Elgin Baylor in order to win (and even then we stopped by the NEW YORK KNICKS a couple times).

Wilt's Lakers didn't win their Title until after Baylor retired.

llemon
11-28-2010, 01:30 AM
But if you really wanted to settle the issue just google when the NBA added that rule change. If it was during Wilts playing career then theres a good chance he took advantage of it on occasion but everything Ive read suggests otherwise.

My googling efforts seem to indicate that the current rule has always been the rule

HakeemTheDream
11-28-2010, 01:56 AM
Think about it, why would a guy who could dunk his free throws wait until he wanted to score 100 to do it? It makes no sense, why not just dunk as many free throws as you could?

His FT% displayed alot of variance because he tried all sorts of shooting mechanics, from granny to flick/wrist shots.

Edit) I think I remember hearing because he was the first player who FT shooting limited his incredible offensive game, he was among the first to hire multiple shooting specialists, one of them held a world record I believe.

But if you really wanted to settle the issue just google when the NBA added that rule change. If it was during Wilts playing career then theres a good chance he took advantage of it on occasion but everything Ive read suggests otherwise.

I can't find the date of the rule change, but I found these quotes suggesting that the things I heard were true
The Big Dipper was so commanding that the league had to change its rules to keep him away from the basket. It widened the lane to 16 feet; prohibited offensive goaltending; and stipulated that a free-throw shooter can’t cross the line until his shot hits the rim of the basket. (Authorities meant this last rule to prevent Chamberlain from taking off at the free-throw line and dunking his foul shots.)

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/wilt-chamberlain-sets-nba-rebounds-record


During his career, his dominance precipitated many rules changes. These rules changed included widening the lane, instituting offensive goaltending and revising rules governing inbounding the ball and shooting free throws (Chamberlain would leap with the ball from behind the foul line to deposit the ball in the basket).

http://www.nba.com/history/players/chamberlain_bio.html

I heard that Wilt didn't always dunk his free throws because he had a lot of pride, it's like cheating, the only reason he did it in the 100 point game was because they were using the Hack-a-Wilt strategy and that frustrated him.

topdog
11-28-2010, 02:01 AM
how does this mean he is only talking about his stats? he is saying he will not stop being aggressive. He will not change his game and take a back seat, or he will be wasting his ability.

Another writer who was angry over "the decision". Who cares

He's got to change his game. He's not in Cleveland anymore. Stop pushing those ruby slippers and ask the wizard for some passion.

Now Lebron is good at lots of things - passing, scoring, rebounding, but he's got to learn to utilize those skills properly in this new context. Take a page out of the Celtics' book and do what it takes to be a compliment to Wade like Garnett did for Pierce (I know there are some differences but Garnett accepted a new role despite being a more versatile/better player). Because he's more versatile, he needs to be the one to fit alongside and work on being a shooter or setting guys up, ect.