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View Full Version : Since Denver Can't Beat the Lakers.....



Tony_Starks
11-26-2010, 08:03 PM
What are they waiting for? Its not like the Lakers haven't owned them in the post season whether fully healthy or not. There's no reason to believe they would beat them in a 7 game series this year. So if you're not good enough to beat the champs, and your more than likely looking at YET another playoff letdown, what in the world is Melo still doing there? The offers for him will only get worse as time passes. The season tickets have already been sold so it can't be financial..... I really don't get it, can someone help me?

Evolution23
11-26-2010, 08:05 PM
Maybe because most teams don't want to destroy their whole team to get Melo for 1 year.

ko8e24
11-26-2010, 08:06 PM
They're probably trying to see what they can do for one final season with George Karl as the head coach, Chauncey Billups with perhaps has final productive season at that starting PG position, and with Melo as THE GUY. I think they ride it out, and then dismantle the team in the offseason by letting Melo go, trading away Billups, and saying bye-bye to Karl (who unfortunately still has many health issues)

Tony_Starks
11-26-2010, 08:11 PM
They're probably trying to see what they can do for one final season with George Karl as the head coach, Chauncey Billups with perhaps has final productive season at that starting PG position, and with Melo as THE GUY. I think they ride it out, and then dismantle the team in the offseason by letting Melo go, trading away Billups, and saying bye-bye to Karl (who unfortunately still has many health issues)


So give it a final run just for the hell of it? I guess but it will only make it that much harder to rebuild when Melo walks. Chauncey is already looking like an old man, you can see the wear and tear from this summer. I'd ship them now.

I guess it just amazes me to see them goofing around when the entire world saw what happened with Bron and Bosh. You think if Cleveland and Toronto had a chance to do it over they wouldn't trade those guys for something? Anything?

kozelkid
11-26-2010, 08:22 PM
They are looking for the best offer for Melo. For instance, I doubt the Bulls are willing to trade some of their core players until they see how they do with Boozer healthy. Might as well wait til the trade deadline and I'm 90% sure that by then Melo will be traded. It's how you deal. There is a stand off between them and teams like NJ, Houston and possibly Chicago.

abe_froman
11-26-2010, 08:27 PM
I guess it just amazes me to see them goofing around when the entire world saw what happened with Bron and Bosh. You think if Cleveland and Toronto had a chance to do it over they wouldn't trade those guys for something? Anything?

there's still time before the deadline.they want the best package that can get while(like others have said)are waiting for the price to go down as no one is willing to destroy their present or future for a one year rental

jimbobjarree
11-26-2010, 08:32 PM
so every team that cant beat the Lakers should destroy their team using the first offers they get?

shep33
11-26-2010, 08:35 PM
Denver plays well against the Lakers... I'm a Laker fan, and I gotta say out west Denver is one of 2 teams that could challenge us.

Denver
San Antonio-if healthy

goblazers7
11-26-2010, 08:38 PM
Ya

News24/7
11-26-2010, 08:39 PM
so every team that cant beat the Lakers should destroy their team using the first offers they get?

yes. the Jazz for example :p

JordansBulls
11-26-2010, 08:41 PM
Denver plays well against the Lakers... I'm a Laker fan, and I gotta say out west Denver is one of 2 teams that could challenge us.

Denver
San Antonio-if healthy

Agreed.

DA FRANCHISE
11-26-2010, 09:07 PM
Denver plays well against the Lakers... I'm a Laker fan, and I gotta say out west Denver is one of 2 teams that could challenge us.

Denver
San Antonio-if healthy

U do understand that Kobe turns it in the playoffs much like Boston and that they really have no chance at all their best bet is to make that trade asps b for the deadline comes around

Hustlenomics
11-26-2010, 09:17 PM
had Ariza not made those two steals it could have been a different series the other year

Tony_Starks
11-26-2010, 09:27 PM
there's still time before the deadline.they want the best package that can get while(like others have said)are waiting for the price to go down as no one is willing to destroy their present or future for a one year rental


The only problem is the longer they wait, the worse the deals will be for them because teams know they have to unload him and they will low ball. The only hold up on the potential trades reportedly has been Denvers reluctance to part with him. New Jersey was ready. Possibly Philly as well.

Not saying those are fantastic deals for them but at a certain point you have to accept your loss and cash in your chips before it gets worse....

Tony_Starks
11-26-2010, 09:29 PM
U do understand that Kobe turns it in the playoffs much like Boston and that they really have no chance at all their best bet is to make that trade asps b for the deadline comes around


Thank you sir, my point exactly. Utah and Denver both play Lakers tough through the year but they're no match in a seven game series with or even without Bynum.

bahama0811
11-26-2010, 09:45 PM
The Nuggets are waiting for December 15th which is the day that the FA's that were signed in the summer could be traded. It will open up a lot more possibilities.

Sixerlover
11-26-2010, 09:51 PM
Underlying point of this thread: If you can't beat the Lakers in a 7 game series and your in the west, PACK IT UP! Trade the vets for rookies and picks and wait another 3 years to make a playoff run

JordansBulls
11-26-2010, 11:26 PM
Underlying point of this thread: If you can't beat the Lakers in a 7 game series and your in the west, PACK IT UP! Trade the vets for rookies and picks and wait another 3 years to make a playoff run

Or trade your star so that the Lakers can have another cakewalk to the finals.

whitemamba33
11-27-2010, 12:46 AM
The Lakers are beatable. I just watched them lose. I don't think that Denver has the "we can't beat the Lakers so we just shoudn't try" mentality, and I really don't think that they should. This team still has some strong pieces, and they are FAR from a team that needs to "cash in its chips".

Let's not get too arrogant...Denver took us to 6 games in the conf semi finals 2 years ago. It's easy to type on the computer and say what they should do, but there are pros and certainly cons that come with trading the best player on a regular playoff team.

Tony_Starks
11-27-2010, 12:46 AM
Underlying point of this thread: If you can't beat the Lakers in a 7 game series and your in the west, PACK IT UP! Trade the vets for rookies and picks and wait another 3 years to make a playoff run


More like: if you can't beat the Lakers in a 7 game series WITH your superstar AND you know said superstar is about to walk, trade him before the Lakers beat you....AGAIN... and you have nothing to show for it.

But hey I could be wrong its not like the Lakers have already been in the business of knocking them out of the playoffs with Walton/Sasha/Farmar coming off the bench. Its not like the Lakers bench improved or anything.........

Tony_Starks
11-27-2010, 12:53 AM
The Lakers are beatable. I just watched them lose. I don't think that Denver has the "we can't beat the Lakers so we just shoudn't try" mentality, and I really don't think that they should. This team still has some strong pieces, and they are FAR from a team that needs to "cash in its chips".

Let's not get too arrogant...Denver took us to 6 games in the conf semi finals 2 years ago. It's easy to type on the computer and say what they should do, but there are pros and certainly cons that come with trading the best player on a regular playoff team.


I agree to a certain point but we both know there are certain teams that just have your number. If you go back as far as me Im sure you remember a time where we absolutely could not beat Utah or the Spurs in a series. No matter what, year in year out. Despite LA having a really good team. Its not about over confidence, sometimes its about matchups and Denver has absolutely no answer for Lakers bigs and now their improved bench.....

Plus the main point is they are going to lose him regardless.

Bornknick73
11-27-2010, 01:13 AM
Let the sun shine on a dog's *** for once.....

Give him to us and get it over with!

whitemamba33
11-27-2010, 01:27 AM
Denver has a choice: suck now or suck next season. They had a long drought where they didn't win a division title for almost 20 years going back to 1988. I think if you have that kind of history of losing, you cherish every competitive playoff season you have - even if it means holding on to a few players longer than they should. This team has been rebuilding for a few years now...I don't think they are anxious to start it all over again, and neither are the fans. Kobe and/or Gasol could always go down with an injury (heaven forbid)....and I think Denver would dread trading Carmello if that were to happen.

Also, I don't think "losing him" is as bad as people make it sound. If the Nuggets force a trade now, they are basically limiting themselves to good players on bad teams. No top contending team is going to blow up their nucleus and team chemistry to bring this guy in. So I don't really feel that they are going to get what they want on the trade market - not this early in the season. Maybe once the pressure of the deadline comes along and some teams want to make a push...but right now there is lots of room at the top of the standings and lots of teams have a fair chance.

Also, losing Anthony will free up some cap space and allow them to choose players carefully in the offseason instead of having to settle for whatever comes bundled into a trade.

All in all...of course it's a tough move any way you look at it. But in the grand scheme of things, might as well hammer out one more season, hope for the best, and then move on with selected pieces.

topdog
11-27-2010, 01:27 AM
A deal centered around Derrick Favors would be pretty tempting to me if I'm the Nugs.

They have as good a chance as anyone in the West of beating the Lakers, but those chances aren't very high.

Tony_Starks
11-27-2010, 02:00 AM
Its definitely a tough spot for them to be in. I mean stranger things have happened they could beat LA but I just can't see it barring injury. I look at them now as the way they'll probably be all year w/Melo: win a couple, lose a couple. 50 plus wins. Early exit.

Now a interesting thing is just like Denver and Lakers there are teams in the East that as presently constructed are not beating Boston in a 7 game series. Im talking the Orlando's and ATL's of the world. If I'm Denver I try to work with Melo to see if a S/T to one of those teams is attractive. Orlando and ATL are capable of putting together nice packages centering around Nelson or JR Smith that would be attractive to Denver while still leaving their best player for Melo to play with. Imagine him and Dwight together? Would be cooooooooold business!!

topdog
11-27-2010, 02:18 AM
Its definitely a tough spot for them to be in. I mean stranger things have happened they could beat LA but I just can't see it barring injury. I look at them now as the way they'll probably be all year w/Melo: win a couple, lose a couple. 50 plus wins. Early exit.

Now a interesting thing is just like Denver and Lakers there are teams in the East that as presently constructed are not beating Boston in a 7 game series. Im talking the Orlando's and ATL's of the world. If I'm Denver I try to work with Melo to see if a S/T to one of those teams is attractive. Orlando and ATL are capable of putting together nice packages centering around Nelson or JR Smith that would be attractive to Denver while still leaving their best player for Melo to play with. Imagine him and Dwight together? Would be cooooooooold business!!

*Josh Smith*

I really wanted to see Orlando go after Boozer or Arenas this summer. They need something more. I would have no problem moving Nelson if I was them - Reefer played much better in his place when they went to the finals against the Lakers.

Ty Fast
11-27-2010, 02:44 AM
I think they have to wait till a certain date to trade Mello. It has to do with players that havenít reached an agreement on an extension. That date may have already passed too, but if it did it hasnít been that long since it has.

sargon21
11-27-2010, 02:45 AM
it would be ******** for NJ to give up Favors w/ no guarantee that Melo will re-sign with them...

Ty Fast
11-27-2010, 02:47 AM
*Josh Smith*

I really wanted to see Orlando go after Boozer or Arenas this summer. They need something more. I would have no problem moving Nelson if I was them - Reefer played much better in his place when they went to the finals against the Lakers.

if you wanted arenas you probably wouldnt have to give up nelson. orlando has the trade exepetion they got for hedo and i bet washington would take almost nothing for him.

Raph12
11-27-2010, 04:56 AM
*Josh Smith*

I really wanted to see Orlando go after Boozer or Arenas this summer. They need something more. I would have no problem moving Nelson if I was them - Reefer played much better in his place when they went to the finals against the Lakers.

Arenas sucks and Boozer wanted to go to Chitown, the only way I'd take on Arenas is if it's Gil-Blatche-filler for Nelson-Shard...

jmtapia
11-27-2010, 05:27 AM
IMO the Nugs would have been better off trading Melo before teh season started... i think they would have gotten the most back then.

abe_froman
11-27-2010, 05:38 AM
The only problem is the longer they wait, the worse the deals will be for them because teams know they have to unload him and they will low ball. The only hold up on the potential trades reportedly has been Denvers reluctance to part with him. New Jersey was ready. Possibly Philly as well.

Not saying those are fantastic deals for them but at a certain point you have to accept your loss and cash in your chips before it gets worse....

its the game they want to play,so...

those deals might not even be on the table anymore,just saying...


they want alot for him,hoping someone will get desperate.other teams are waiting for that to.thats why its a stalemate.and it will stay this way unless someone caves(most likely it'll be denver),so you wont see anything til closer to deadline as the other 29 teams know if they wait it out they can get him for pennies on the dollar come feb,or they lose him for next to nothing

DenButsu
11-27-2010, 07:57 AM
What are they waiting for? Its not like the Lakers haven't owned them in the post season whether fully healthy or not. There's no reason to believe they would beat them in a 7 game series this year. So if you're not good enough to beat the champs, and your more than likely looking at YET another playoff letdown, what in the world is Melo still doing there? The offers for him will only get worse as time passes. The season tickets have already been sold so it can't be financial..... I really don't get it, can someone help me?

To say the Lakers "owned" Denver in the 2009 WCF is a total joke. Two inbounds plays go differently, and the Nuggets win that series.

2008, now that was a different story, and it's fair to say Denver got owned in that one.

---------------------------------------------

As to the main question you're asking, we can only speculate, but all signs point to the first part of the answer being that the Ujiri, the Kroenkes, and Karl are still holding out hope that he'll change his mind. My guess at some of what they're thinking (and I am mostly guessing here, although some of it has been reported as rumor):

-Why be in a hurry to trade a top 10 player when there's still even a remote chance of retaining him? Since in any plausible trade scenario the value they get back will be considerably less than Melo's value, the risk of losing him under any conditions is much greater than any of the various lesser risks of some trade packages being worse than others.

-There is still plenty of time before the trade deadline, and they probably feel that this gives them some breathing room in terms of still being able to make a move or two that could convince Melo to stick around, but...

-...we haven't reached Dec. 15th yet, which should loosen up the Nuggets' options for making a trade or two that can demonstrate to Melo they're serious about building a better team around him (either immediately or in the near future).

-Melo is having a career season thus far. We can't know, of course, if he can continue playing at as high a level as he has in his first 15 or so games, but if he does this will easily become the best all-around season he's ever played. Charles and Kenny are on crack if they think he's not playing hard. Which says two things to the FO, I'm guessing: 1) At least in the short term, at least so far, Melo hasn't totally given up on this team; he's doing his best to lead and carry it. And 2) If traded via the extension offer, and if there are multiple teams he's willing to play for, quality offers will be there waiting for the Nuggets when the time comes. He's simply too valuable a player to pass up if the getting's good.

-It's still unclear how all the factors that Melo wants balance out in his mind. He probably wants to play for a team other than Denver, his first choice is probably the Knicks, but he's probably also at least partially open to other teams (first and foremost Chicago, but perhaps NJ and others, especially potential contenders) in big markets. He probably also wants that contract extension even if he's traded, so that he can cash in on that bigtime salary under current CBA conditions (rollback gossip notwithstanding). And he can't make that happen unilaterally -- he needs the Nuggets to facilitate that via working together with him to find a trade agreement they can feel is mutually fair, respectful, and beneficial (or maybe "least harmful" in the case of the Nuggets).

-With the bright shining exception of not having signed the extension with Denver, Melo is still being very professional and operating in good faith with respect to the team, his teammates, the fans, etc. There's absolutely no indication that he'll doing anything like the Iverson meltdown before he got traded to Denver that would drive his trade value down. If he's (silently) "demanding" to be traded, in terms of his basketball performance, his demeanor before the press and the fans, and (according to them) his interaction with the FO and coaching staff, he isn't pressuring them to do anything too soon or very drastic. He's not forcing the situation. So why, in turn, unnecessarily force a trade when not really under pressure to do so? I think they're basically waiting to see how things play out on the basketball court, while staying busy on the phones looking for possible ways to make Melo happy, keeping an eye on key dates and the temperature in the locker room, and hoping for a break in the weather.


People change. They change their minds. I think it's very much wishful thinking on the FO's part to think that Melo can be persuaded to stay. And personally, I think they dropped the ball by not pushing the Favors deal through. But at the same time I can understand the logic (even if i don't agree with it) of waiting until they're absolutely 100% sure4 Melo's ship has sailed before cutting him loose. And somewhat ironically Melo himself has probably decreased the FO's likelihood of trading him anytime soon by playing so damn great. In spite of many of us not really wanting to have any love for Melo anymore, he's making it really damn hard for us not to (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkcVf6HzHI4). He is the franchise, and has been for so long. As far as the Nuggets organization is concerned (and they may be right - hell, I have to admit that watching him play this season, I've softened my strong opposition to their not trading him before the season started), he's worth every effort taken to try to keep him, even if that proves a little more costly in the end.

xbrackattackx
11-27-2010, 10:29 AM
I think Melo will still be there at the end of the season then leave.

C-Dub
11-27-2010, 11:04 AM
since this thread is complete crap... oh wait

ps: the nuggets won the season series last season and werent 'owned' so maybe you want to rethink your title, even if the post seasons, 2 years ago (which was crap as Den said) and 3 years ago when they did get 'owned' happened, last season the nuggets beat LA, why give up on a team that has made great process against LA, specially when Nene is playing better, they have more big man depth now once kmart is back, and Ty can still slaughter any PG that LA has?

lvlheaded
11-27-2010, 11:05 AM
This will drag either to the deadline or free agency. I think this is a staring contest right now between Melo and Denver. Melo wants to be traded and still get the extension while Denver wants to convince him to stay by holding the impending lockout over his head. Basically both parties have leverage and neither wants to compromise so this will end up being who blinks first.

To be honest if the Knicks get Melo, I'll be ecstatic because he is a very good player and one of my favorites ever since his days in Syracuse, but I really do not wanna give up everything to get him. The Knicks are finally on a good path and have plenty of young talent that can develop and make this team a contender down the road. No point in trading it all a way for one player. The thought of Amar'e, Melo, and Felton is nice though :drool:

Tony_Starks
11-27-2010, 12:54 PM
This will drag either to the deadline or free agency. I think this is a staring contest right now between Melo and Denver. Melo wants to be traded and still get the extension while Denver wants to convince him to stay by holding the impending lockout over his head. Basically both parties have leverage and neither wants to compromise so this will end up being who blinks first.

To be honest if the Knicks get Melo, I'll be ecstatic because he is a very good player and one of my favorites ever since his days in Syracuse, but I really do not wanna give up everything to get him. The Knicks are finally on a good path and have plenty of young talent that can develop and make this team a contender down the road. No point in trading it all a way for one player. The thought of Amar'e, Melo, and Felton is nice though :drool:


You know at seasons start I, like a lot of people, thought Melo going to New York was the biggest joke in the world like what could New York possibly offer that they would want? But now honestly after watching them I'd swing a deal if I was Denver. The x-factor that changed my mind is Landry. That kid is niiiiiiiice, he's going to be a heck of a player with the right training. A package of Landry, Gallo, Curry's contract and picks is actually not too shabby IMO. Put Landry and Gallo with Afflalo and Lawson and thats not a bad young squad to rebuild with.....